Bharat Rakshak

RayC

Death on wheels.

Which isn't, Rahul M?

If you are in uniform. it is death on everything.

That is the price to pay if you want your country to be free!

RayC

Rahul M, No pictures of Abrams damaged? They were not damaged? It is easy to pick up western propaganda and rather difficult to get something from the other side, right? Fortunately, I am not a Russian or a Western backer. I want what is best for India! :roll: why should I bother to post abrams pic...

RayC

Rahul M, No pictures of Abrams damaged? They were not damaged? It is easy to pick up western propaganda and rather difficult to get something from the other side, right? Fortunately, I am not a Russian or a Western backer. I want what is best for India! Your posts were impressive, but a trifle low o...

RayC

So, for a civilian like you, rank matters, but it is no reflection of the intelligence of a person. err, only in the last post you were arguing that rank is a reflection of intelligence and final arbiter of a person's command of a subject ! :rotfl: and I was arguing against it. :lol: Since there ar...

RayC

RayC we are digressing from the topic lets keep it plain and simple. Rahul's post above has a link which clearly gives an idea of the kind of protection the T family (without ERA) offers against the older RU APFSDS "3BM42" while Arjun's armor was not defeated even by the new Israeli APFSD...

RayC

So Ajai Shukla is the last word on this forum? What makes him superior to an ex COAS? are you having problem understanding simple english ? I said I'm not saying these depending on what ajai shukla says. the facts are all out there, irrespective of what he does or does not say. he may be superior o...

RayC

^ RayC I will need to dig for it and fwiw iirc was posted by JCage (as reliable as one can get as far as Indian MBT scene is concerned) ; moreover we don't need it look for it for if you read Rahul's post and see the protection levels offered by ERA less T-80U series against RPG-29 one can only ima...

RayC

ray sir, clearly you haven't read my post carefully. my argument was NOT that the arjun or any other MBT is invulnerable ( * ) to modern anti-tank weapons but their crew survive even in cases when the tank is a write-off. not so in the case of T-90 and T-72. please read the very links you have post...

RayC

The Arjun's improvement has been an "ongoing process" since the 80s with no end in sight. So has been the case with Abrams,Leo and the T-72 family . I'll call it when I see it, till then its "in development claims" will remain on paper only! Well in that case you can contend you...

RayC

RayC.. I am 45 and my father is 80 . He now hates to talk anything about the services. I dont go to him for money :-)) .. On the contrary I provide 3 Ladhaki children scholarships and try to spend atleast 3 weeks every year teaching in some school in Ladhak or Uttrakhand living in fairly spartan co...

RayC

Rahul M, Here is my reply. First of all, if one wants to decide then all tanks are death traps on tracks (and not on wheels as you quaintly put it), more so if the tank crew is not well trained and if the adversary uses the right type of ammunition and attacks the soft spots. Here are some examples....

RayC

^^you forgot the third point ,both tanks are supposed to be on different roles, and are incomparable according to an army source,.... For IA there isnt any 'superior' tank present , its using both as two separate solutions for same problem at different theaters of war,,. AFAIK ,few months back, the...

RayC

I want to reiterate that I don't care if Arjun is good or T 90 is good. I am only concerned that we don't die uselessly because of stupid equipment. Is that too much to expect? And do you think we are not as patriotic as you are? The only thing is that your patriotism is on our lives and not yours!...

RayC

rayC.. frankly i did not quite understand your reply and my dads opinion is not relavant here since he is not participating. all i am saying that there seems to be an apparent contradiction in your posts on the indicated matter ... so could you please clarify your stand on the matter. btw i think t...

RayC

I want to reiterate that I don't care if Arjun is good or T 90 is good. I am only concerned that we don't die uselessly because of stupid equipment. Is that too much to expect? And do you think we are not as patriotic as you are? The only thing is that your patriotism is on our lives and not yours!

RayC

pretty sure, its not the Average BRFite who would want to throw the INSAS for some fancy Import... Hell for that matter, any of the indigenous technologies developed so painstakingly. About OFB's QC issues, why don't you work with them??? I mean its the army for crying out loud. they can arm twist ...

RayC

That apart.

This maybe of interest

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Histo ... adakh.html

RayC

I thought one passes out if flying for extended period without pressurization above 10000 feet? I do know that even recreational sky divers have to take oxygen flasks when jumping from 13K feet... but thats a civilian requirement. Maybe military world it does not apply? Perhaps RayC was flying belo...

RayC

No one here is ever going to say that you should show patriotism by using inferior indigenous tech in battle. That is the issue! INSAS was not accepted till it was proven to be excellent. Likewise many other indigenous stuff! And here we have the BRF warriors who want the INSAS junked and buy forei...

RayC

Why do you continue think that the AN 32 is unpressurized? because you think that the aircraft is russian or cheap or crude or what?? I like Russians and can speak a smattering. But that does not mean I accept your contention that AN 32 is pressurised. I have done many a sortie with this aircraft a...

RayC

manjgu wrote:

Ask him.

RayC

rayC .. i think you got it wrong. its a given that many of us will not see a battlefield. but our fathers, brothers are in harms way as well. so we are not at all casual when talking about death etc. atleast i still did not get a reply to the G pig argument when you accept that casualties are inher...

RayC

At least, here we know we are doing our job and you want us to die for lousy equipment just to show patriotism that we are supporting indigenoisation? So getting into a Arjun tank is asking someone to die? With an attitude like that... :roll: Both the t90 and the Arjun are untested in battle. All d...

RayC

rayC... in the case of LCA ( which is still unproven ) testing, would you classify the pilots as G pigs? No. They are test pilots who know the dangers! Test pilots have died before proving aircraft. Part of the job. Just as much as the defence personnel know that to defend the country they may have...

RayC

RayC ... i did not get your argument about guinea pig? nobody wants def personnel to be G pigs but since def personnel can only test def eqpt in real life conditions , there is a attendant risk? i mean who will fly aircrafts or dive in subs to test something or fire guns in siachen?? as rightly poi...

RayC

RayC... INSAS - a good example of indigenous dev - i am sure INSAS has also evolved from its first incarnation/version based on its usage, which is the whole idea about product dev.. prototyping and then iterative improvements. Maruti is by no means indegenous development ... its japanese tech , sc...

RayC

We always wish IA to do well. Even our laments are toward this end. It is my belief that it is this constant penchant for the British Army traidition/standards is bringing the IA not to realise its own potential, Sir. People are so enamoured about British that they always lookup to their methods an...

RayC

It is not the IA’s mindset or history that prevents induction of indigenous equipment. That is true. If you read carefully again, you will note what I think is the problem is the Indian Army's INSTITUTIONAL FAILING as the primary cuase. Why are we buying Maruti cars instead of the warhorse Ambassad...

RayC

Kanson wrote: And proudly saying as a custodian of British Indian Army traditions, they are not taking the intiatives to come out of that inertia..

One wonders why the standards of the IA is going down.

It was pretty good when the 'British Army traditions' were in place!!

RayC

Unfortunately there is no incentive to induct indian eqpt while there are many to induct phoren eqpt. INSAS. Foreign made? Give a good product and none can complain! Maruti Jeeps and Mahindra and Mahindra Jeeps, Tata and Leyland truck? Guess what? Govt produced Jongas are out and Marutis are still ...

RayC

The government did not set attack dogs like Manish Tiwari or Jayanti Natarajan to shout down inconvenient questions. Dislike both. More so this Jayanti with her flat nose flared as she speaks. Manish has a voice that sound like one scraping a razor blade - scratchy and offending the ear! They speak...

RayC

somnath wrote:
RayC wrote:And worse are the sycophants behind
Thats VK Saraswat - DRDO chief..

Living a life of luxury!

RayC

RayC .. i did not understand how inducting a not so 'proven' eqpt in limited no endangers soldiers life Simple. If one Regt is to 'prove' an equipment, and a war breaks out, then are they to sacrifice themselves to 'prove' the efficacy of the equipment? Or should such a Regt not be employed and so ...

RayC

Avinash R wrote:

RayC

Thats a very small part of the RMs job, management by "moving around"...

However, good for the morale of the men.

Not having idiots who love their own offices and aircon comforts!

RayC

At the same time, one should not accept equipment to 'promote' indigenisation at the cost of lives of those who are to man such equipment in war or lose a war because of 'promoting' local military industry. RayC, this is exactly the problem!. The Army simply does not have a history or mindset of in...

RayC

George F continued the long line of RMs who did nothing on policy-making...The only difference with GF was that he thought that personal Siachen tourism substitutes for good policy..The current incumbent thinks comlete non-action on procurement to show "cleanliness" is substitute for good...

RayC

He has carefully indicated that it was the dhoti clad Defence Minister who forced the COAS. The current COAS would leave a chequered (unfortunately more on the negative side) legacy - would be viewed by posterity in the same league as ACM SK Sareen and Adm Ramdas...The Gen Panag accusations, Sukhna...

RayC

Principally correct, but wrong examples..KP Singh married well, his father in law was a big landlord in UP/Haryana and the original DLF business was started by him with KPS..And Brig Bhawani Singh is the scion of the Jaipur royal family, no wonder he owns lots of properties!!! Allow a media spinmei...

RayC

Here is a retired MS virtually acusing the serving COAS of lying..And similarly against another fellow officer... He has not accused the COAS. He has carefully indicated that it was the dhoti clad Defence Minister who forced the COAS. I wish this dhoti clad man would be more diligent in getting the...

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