Bharat Rakshak

Calvin

I think you have still not understood that in the Hindu mindset, conversion is a sin. An act of warfare against an individual's right not to be disturbed by anybody. bodily harm is not the only kind of harm Yeah, but it is probably the only kind of tangible harm. The idea of psychological harm is g...

Calvin

Why don't you answer why Christians should continue to worship an autocratic, jealous, genocidal god? Oh, non-democratic as well. I am tired of the flame baits, and any more of these and posting privileges will start getting revoked. Giving you the benefit of doubt, I will answer some of your quest...

Calvin

Abhijit: Do I have a right not to be considered 'hell'-bound by the believers of books that I don't believe in? You cannot force another person to think in a particular way. Therefore if they think you are hell bound, you cannot change their point of view. I am not even sure how one would go about d...

Calvin

There is a write up on Wikipedia on Individual Rights. The distinctions with "human rights", "civil rights" are all relevant, particularly the notion that these rights derive to an individual by virtue of being a human being and are not granted by anyone, or by society. The Decla...

Calvin

Individual rights are relevant here precisely because the genesis of this particular discussion pertained to Evangelization, and the right to practice and "propagate" one's religion. The contention is that this right to "propagate" one's religion is a concept that doesn't exist i...

Calvin

My issue is individual rights - frankly with no distinction made on the basis of religion, income, color and so on. Characterizing my issue in religious terms is creating a straw man. Before you apply the test of individual rights to Dharma, you need to first prove that it is possible in any theoret...

Calvin

Has there not been Dharmic state structures

Even if there were, were they democratic in nature? The power of the majority can be considerably greater than the power of a despot.

Calvin

Now based on my limited understanding of the constitutional issues involved, the slaughter of animals is a state subject and if states decree that cow slaughter is banned then legally it is banned. If you partake of beef in these states then you are breaking the law. Are we in agreement so far? I a...

Calvin

Karan: 1. Are there any other "minor courtesies" that may arise? 2.Polygamy is an interesting situation. Quite frankly, it seems to me that if two consenting adults (or four or ten) want to do this, they should be allowed to. (although, quite frankly, I find one more than enough) Similarly...

Calvin

Abhijit: The constitution allows for self correction using the mechanism provided therein. And that mechanism should be used, if we believe that the Constitution as it stands is an acceptable framework. If we do not agree to this, we will need to either have another Constitutional Convention; or abr...

Calvin

Vishy: I have tolerated your nonsense on this thread benignly. You have clearly not followed this thread, nor its predecessors with any amount of attention. This discussion was *specifically* spawned in the context of the "right to propagate." You on the other hand, are unable to make a lo...

Calvin

Vishy: your first question is a fallacy, and doesn't deserve an answer. Your second question has been answered on this thread - ban on cow slaughter alone does not mean ban on beef consumption, it means an increase in price of the beef. Note, however, that the bill introduced in Parliament a few yea...

Calvin

So how do we have a system with SD above all laws? Re: Indian Constitution - one of the premise for this thread was the discussion about evangelization. This is a "right" that derives from the "practice and propagate" right associated with religion. The contention was that the co...

Calvin

Dharma, by definition includes doing the right thing for the individual, society and indeed for all kind, not just man kind. Dharma cannot cede primacy to the rights of the individual over others at all times Ok, Ok, but who is going to determine what the Dharma should be? Is this going to be an in...

Calvin

I have been about the issue of dharma, religion and inalienable individual rights, and I believe I have been able to narrow my concerns down to a single issue. Whenever we discuss Dharma we are told about inherent tolerance to a variety of belief systems, implying that this tolerance should be a suf...

Calvin

...or it is the proof of the mortal cow. The bill the BJP introduced to Parliament would have banned the *sale* of beef, but that was never passed. I am not familiar with the specifics of the laws in the various states in this regard.

Calvin

I think Cow Slaughter is banned in all states except Kerala and either Bengal or Arunachal.

Calvin

This is from an email I received from a non-member watching this discussion: Hi Valkan, You have posted very nicely in this thread and I certaily have learnt a lot about Advaita from your posts. Thank you for that. That said, you are dismissing Kumarâ€™s concerns and arguments a bit too impulsively ...

Calvin

If these practises are impinging on individual rights such as Life, Property and Practise of faith, will they be curtailed by Indian Constitution? Seeing the state mandated reservations in private institutions, it appears that the Supremes cannot always be counted on. Please note that this should h...

Calvin

Vishy: "Democracy" is "majority rule." The vast majority of the voting public throughout the world do not think things through, and vote on emotion, not logic. They are therefore led by the "elite." Most people recognize this, which is why there are generally constituti...

Calvin

are *any* rights that are inalienable under any circumstance?
none whatsoever ... if you align with the majority, beg and whine, you will have "rights" ...

At least I know where you stand on this. Now the question is whether you think this is a preferable state of affairs, or not?

Calvin

Vishy: I have no problem with SD. In fact, if you notice, I have stayed out of the entire religious discussion here, stepping in only to discuss the political aspects of the discussion. Does individual rights more important that well being of society? I think individual rights lead to the well being...

Calvin

Alok - If this is a discussion of "majority rules", it is irrelevant how important it is to *me*. Since, by definition, I am a minority of one. Given this "majority rules" in order to understand the extent to which the "majority" can "rule", are *any* rights t...

Calvin

Rahul - this discussion is not about "beef" so much as it is about the ideology of those that believe they can decide for the rest of us. See my post above for whether there should be certain minimum rights that the individual should have, or not. Alok: I had generously offered you that la...

Calvin

There are many laws like the liquor laws that are a direct result of the opinion of the majority taking effect. Liquor is not the end of it, there are speed limits on the highways, laws against prostitution, laws against narcotic drugs trafficking and consumption, taxes on cigarrettes, age limits on...

Calvin

The question that is being raised is a simple one, is the injunction against cow slaughter a religious one, or one pertaining to dharma. I can understand the commentary that Valkan raised that the injunction is as an appeasement to the putative mob. But that doesn't answer the question being raised....

Calvin

Beef doesnt have to be central to christianity for this to be an issue. Beef is central to beef eaters. As for the workweek in the US, while there are traditional weekends, this is not legislated by law, as far as I am aware. If it were, how do facilities operate on a 24-hour basis? Beef should be b...

Calvin

Alok, there is an extant discussion focusing specifically on the dharmic, religious and political aspects surrounding this issue of where the threat of "communal violence" will lead us. It is particularly interesting that you have chosen to disrupt this thread when we got to that point. Ar...

Calvin

Folks - if you cannot stay the course, please do not disrupt.

Calvin

Now it is most likely that ancestors of Calvin ... were Hindus but here they are fighting for their religion as if their life is under threat. What is my religion? And what, specifically, am I fighting for? Before you snap back a response, please review the preceding threads and *think* about what ...

Calvin

A few posts ago, you insinuated that Hindu Dharma is not tolerant. Now, it is obvious that such an insinuation doesn't stick. What the government does - as a consequence to popular conviction - can't be blamed on Hindu Dharma as such. It is not obvious to me at all. Is the injunction against cow sl...

Calvin

And scriptural arguments can be very strong, especially when more than 90% of the people don't understand the original vedic Sanskrit, even if some of them understand the "reformed" ( Samskritam) language of the post-Vedic era ( under the compilation of Panini ). The "thinkers" ...

Calvin

Valkan - Falsely "Crying fire" in a theatre is different from falsely "crying fire" in a parking lot. This is simply because in the former, the people are led to believe that their *life* is at risk, and that they have to act immediately without thought. In the case of falsely cr...

Calvin

Valkan: You believe you are being logical, when you are not. The difference the threat of "communal violence" and crying fire are well understood by anyone who thinks about it. Assertion is not logic. ShauryaT: Swami Vivekananda kept on exhorting us that the ideals of our nation ought to b...

Calvin

The evangelists probably have a hundred verses that insist that evangelization is a quintessence of their religion. If Rongsheng is to be believed, they may even claim that they should be able to do this with force or fraud. It seems so much simpler to focus on fundamental individual rights. (at lea...

Calvin

the law in India about cows is catering to the majority sentiment without causing any great harm to the minority ... all laws are like that ... Actually, this is not the case. IN a Constitutional Democracy, any law that goes against the Constitution is invalidated. Therefore, in the US a law that &...

Calvin

It only takes one case to the contrary to disprove a negative. This is not about statistics. BTW, where are you getting the 99% from? I am defending the right of the country ... to... implement laws that prohibit behaviors that are counter to this heritage ... This is such a wide brush that you are ...

Calvin

unavailability of beef has nothing to do with being a practicing christian 2. I would argue that that religion should be banned under Indian Law. It apparently has everything to do with the "tolerance" of the land he lives in, doesn't it? As for the Islamists in question, their employers ...

Calvin

if you choose to say that "I can't love Jesus unless I get to eat beef", you are the one confining yourself ... that sort of argument will only attest to shallowness of your faith, so why push it? ... can you quote a passage from the Bible that says that God will not love you if you don't...

Calvin

you are a minority in India ... get used to it ... period.

Ah, so much for "tolerance." Today its cow slaughter, what will it be tomorrow?

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