India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

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amit
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by amit »

Here's the second part of the IE article on the availability of coal.

From Jhajjar to Farakka, new to old, fuel shortage hits 130 power units
“With the power sector growing at 8 per cent, and coal output at less than 3 per cent, a blackout was simply inevitable,” an executive with a private power firm, whose three projects are badly affected due to want of fuel, said.
Back-of-the-envelope calculations show that against a projected requirement of 742 million tonnes of thermal coal by the end of the Twelfth Plan (April 2012-March 2017), only 527 million tonnes of domestic coal is likely to be available. This translates into a shortfall of 215 million tonnes or 29 per cent of the total requirement by 2017. Among those most worried are private players, who are slated to set up nearly 60 per cent of the capacity coming up in the Twelfth Plan period.
With the coal crisis showing little sign of a resolution, despite the Prime Minister’s intervention, utilities across the country have been instructed to make design changes in all future coal-fired projects to enable higher imported coal blending. However, running power plants on imported coal involves an entirely different challenge.
amit
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by amit »

svenkat wrote:The person killed was a certain tabrez ,nothing to do with shiv shena protests.
Maybe, maybe not. But the report says he was part of the 600 strong mob which attacked the police station. Whichever way, his death was very unfortunate.

My original point was that despite my firm opposition to the current KNPP agitation, I can't help but contrast the far more organised and "civilised" behaviour displayed by the agitators with the lumpen manner in which the Jaitapur agitation was conducted.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by svenkat »

I agree with you entirely.Very civilised using only christism,tamizh nationalism,foreign funds,stopping operationalising for 6 months,obstructing employees,holding in captivity migrant labourers.Far far better than the hindoo thugs.
amit
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by amit »

svenkat wrote:I agree with you entirely.Very civilised using only christism,tamizh nationalism,foreign funds,stopping operationalising for 6 months,obstructing employees,holding in captivity migrant labourers.Far far better than the hindoo thugs.
Hmm,

You seem to have misunderstood. I think the KNPP agitation is anti-national and deplore the use of the Church as an agent to further the anti-national agenda.

However, I have no sympathy for the Shiv Sena which I think is a rank opportunist party which goes by the grab of being a "Hindu" party because it helps further its agenda. I don't think they had any problems beating up "Hindu" Bihari migrant workers did they?

They're supposedly anti nuclear as far as building the Jaitapur plant is concerned but they make statements against the KNPP agitation and support the operationalison of KNPP. So blocking the KNPP plant is anti-national but preventing the building of a NPP in Jaitapur is Nationalistic?

It's unfortunate that you use the lowest common denominator to decide who represents the "Hindoo" interests. As a proud Hindu I would feel very disturbed if Shiv Sena's tactics was used to typecast my Hindu ethos.

But anyway each to his own. My last comment on this.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

amit wrote: So blocking the KNPP plant is anti-national but preventing the building of a NPP in Jaitapur is Nationalistic?
It is possible, unless you use the lowest common denominator of understanding that ALL NUCLEAR == ANY NUCLEAR.

So unless the overall motto is "support imports, blame shiv sena" yes a different take on different projects based on their individual merits and ground situation is entirely possible (and welcome, only in Andher nagri with Chaupat raja is bhaji == khaja)
don't think they had any problems beating up "Hindu" Bihari migrant workers did they?

It's unfortunate that you use the lowest common denominator to decide who represents the "Hindoo" interests. As a proud Hindu I would feel very disturbed if Shiv Sena's tactics was used to typecast my Hindu ethos.

But anyway each to his own. My last comment on this.
Actually your hate speech for Shiv Sena has nothing to do with any of the purported reasons, for example you hold Shiv Sena responsible for Anti Bihari violence when it was MNS

But hey in your world XYZ Sena == ABC Sena. Since the word Sena is common all sena is same as any other sena.

Shiva Sena, Thal Sena, Vasant Sena, Maha. Nav Sena === Sena === "oh those morons"

Quite fine we understand, after all Jaitapur == KKNP == Cirrius == PWHR == LWR etc.

All the same, quite so.

=================

Personally if I was so consistently caught being careless with significant details, I would be embarrassed, however clearly having a opinion based on true facts is only a burden for a very few.
nachiket
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by nachiket »

Sanku wrote:
amit wrote: So blocking the KNPP plant is anti-national but preventing the building of a NPP in Jaitapur is Nationalistic?
It is possible, unless you use the lowest common denominator of understanding that ALL NUCLEAR == ANY NUCLEAR.

So unless the overall motto is "support imports, blame shiv sena" yes a different take on different projects based on their individual merits and ground situation is entirely possible (and welcome, only in Andher nagri with Chaupat raja is bhaji == khaja)
But the reactors at KNPP are imported too. So what is the difference?
It's unfortunate that you use the lowest common denominator to decide who represents the "Hindoo" interests. As a proud Hindu I would feel very disturbed if Shiv Sena's tactics was used to typecast my Hindu ethos.

But anyway each to his own. My last comment on this.
Actually your hate speech for Shiv Sena has nothing to do with any of the purported reasons, for example you hold Shiv Sena responsible for Anti Bihari violence when it was MNS

But hey in your world XYZ Sena == ABC Sena. Since the word Sena is common all sena is same as any other sena.

Shiva Sena, Thal Sena, Vasant Sena, Maha. Nav Sena === Sena === "oh those morons"

Quite fine we understand, after all Jaitapur == KKNP == Cirrius == PWHR == LWR etc.

All the same, quite so.
Shiv Sena has been responsible for anti-Bihari violence in the past. Even before the MNS came into being.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

nachiket wrote: But the reactors at KNPP are imported too. So what is the difference?
Couple of things
1) KKNP is the current stage was fathered before the 123 clause, the conditions under which it came to existence were different.
2) It is now ready (for better or for worse)

I do not support extending KKNP by more reactors for example, at least not without a number of other steps being done first (which are discussed before). However the existing ones should be operationalized.

So even in KKNP, it is indeed possible to have a nuanced approach, now this may appear nonsense to some (of course not you) but what to do I do believe that these matters need a careful and deliberate handle with aware ness of all the fine prints and details.

Shiv Sena has been responsible for anti-Bihari violence in the past. Even before the MNS came into being.
Shiv Sena's record of anti-Bihari violence before MNS came into being? May be some sporadic incidents at best, however I think no one will claim that Shiv Sena has a "record" of anti-Bihari violence (anti tamil violence in 70s, yes no doubt but not really anti-Bihari)
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

Excellent review of the NGO "virus" by Dr.Nalapat.The insidious masterplan of the west to cripple India through sabotage of its energy resources is utterly abominbable and could even be construed as an act of aggression.It is past time to begin "closure" on many suspect NGOs.They should be banned from India and the firang agents deported en masse.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

Philip wrote:Excellent review of the NGO "virus" by Dr.Nalapat.The insidious masterplan of the west to cripple India through sabotage of its energy resources is utterly abominbable and could even be construed as an act of aggression.It is past time to begin "closure" on many suspect NGOs.They should be banned from India and the firang agents deported en masse.
The interesting thing is that KKNP is being sabotaged so that India is forced to purchase from others as hafta to keep the NGOs off KKNP back.

How cool is that, and the discussion here is about how US energy secretory thinks of the projects and its relevance on KKNP and Indian nuclear scenario!!

Now after 123 Nuclear is yet another place to arm twist India to gain economic advantages and other concessions at terms unfavorable to India, and all this in terms of "good for Indian people"
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vishvak »

People are already suffering. Losses occurred till now, daily losses and schedules going haywire is a reality penalized on the people, regardless of perception. The power situation in state is less than ideal while the perception is that people are already suffering.

The fact is that in Europe where nuclear plants are already in place, people are not suffering. It is the same with South Korea where nuclear research is ongoing. People are not suffering there. People are suffering here for the lack of power and penalties because of lack of progress of the power plant. Govt efforts to resume work has been resisted consistently by the leaders who do not explain to the people that in Europe people do not suffer like this.

If safety was really concern, than a reactor generations better is more safe, not any less. People staying around the older generation reactors do not protest and shut down the industry in Europe or USA.

So apparently the safety is not the concern here.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

vishvak wrote:If safety was really concern, than a reactor generations better is more safe, not any less. People staying around the older generation reactors do not protest and shut down the industry in Europe or USA.
Well without getting into merit of the full discussion, people in US and Europe have significantly curtailed the nuclear industry in their countries due to pressure.

France and Japan were outliers, now Japan is folding up too.

This does not mean btw that India/Indians should do XYZ, this is just a data point.

===============

I have always supported a INDIAN nuclear industry -- strongly.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Jarita »

^^^ Interesting how you don't see any of these NGO's dancing around the Massimo Quattrocchi run oil extraction entities in Andaman & Nicobar
Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Theo_Fidel »

To blame the present power shortage on KKNPP is not realistic.

I have never known a time when the power situation in TN was ideal! All the way back into the 70’s power cuts have been a constant. I remember of time of 3 day power cuts. When compared to demand you would be surprised how little the impact of Kudankulam will be. It will help but it won’t end TN’s chronic power shortage. The past few years we had good Monsoons and late rains. Last year for instance we that NE monsoon into the end of January. This allowed TN’s 3500MW of Hydel to proceed well into April. This year rains ended in November. Hydel production ended in January. Not only that, as I have pointed out TN had a lot of break downs. At one point a month ago roughly 2,000 MW of power was down and much of it still is down for maintenance. TN is pretty much running on wind power most days now.

The present shortage is very much Jayalathas fault. During her previous term she did not start a single new power project. For 5 years. Even the DMK did nothing for 3 years. Then suddenly half way in they decided they needed more power and frantically started about 3,500 mw of coal projects. Those projects should all start up in the next year and improve power situation dramatically.

Way back when during the Jayalalitha regime the Cheyyur UMPP, 4000MW of coal from Odisha project was shot down by AMMA because none of the ‘anti-national types’(/sarc guys) near Nagapattinam wanted to part with their land. It did not make financial sense to ship coal around Lanka to Tuticorin & Tirunelveli where land was available, yes within that nest of anti-national types. Hence the Sethu Samudram was proposed. It would allow coal to be shipped to the 2,600 mw expansion planned at Tooti. Another 3,000 MW was proposed along the coast there from Kanyakumari up. Then Sethu was shut down over religious sentiment by more ‘anti-national’ types and hence the 2,600 MW project at Tuti never took off. The other projects have been suspended as imported coal is not as easy to get as Odisha coal and banks won’t finance imported coal projects without linkages. You can blame the present shortage as being due to Cheyyur and Sethu/Tuti, total 6,600MW, getting shut down.

I think we have also successful labeled the majority of our citizens as anti-nationals by now. What does that make the dwindling ranks of remaining patriots, most of whom live on this board earning paychex in foreign countries, I wonder.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

Jarita wrote:^^^ Interesting how you don't see any of these NGO's dancing around the Massimo Quattrocchi run oil extraction entities in Andaman & Nicobar
Yeah and we are supposed to be happy when Man mohan "thunders" that he will fix them.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chaanakya »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
I think we have also successful labeled the majority of our citizens as anti-nationals by now. What does that make the dwindling ranks of remaining patriots, most of whom live on this board earning paychex in foreign countries, I wonder.
Well said ,

Scamsters , always in minority, are itching to enjoy fruits of latest upcoming scam of 123. Well Tihar Ashram is better place for them.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by krisna »

Theo_Fidel wrote: Way back when during the Jayalalitha regime the Cheyyur UMPP, 4000MW of coal from Odisha project was shot down by AMMA because none of the ‘anti-national types’(/sarc guys) near Nagapattinam wanted to part with their land. It did not make financial sense to ship coal around Lanka to Tuticorin & Tirunelveli where land was available, yes within that nest of anti-national types. Hence the Sethu Samudram was proposed. It would allow coal to be shipped to the 2,600 mw expansion planned at Tooti. Another 3,000 MW was proposed along the coast there from Kanyakumari up. Then Sethu was shut down over religious sentiment by more ‘anti-national’ types and hence the 2,600 MW project at Tuti never took off. The other projects have been suspended as imported coal is not as easy to get as Odisha coal and banks won’t finance imported coal projects without linkages. You can blame the present shortage as being due to Cheyyur and Sethu/Tuti, total 6,600MW, getting shut down.
:rotfl:
never thought about this aspect.
There are lot of reasons with non religious ones. You seem to have omitted them for convenience to buttress your point.
Read about the various committees on the Sethu samudram.
Not hindus, even muslims and christians have objected to this project. does this make any less religious. :((
It does not make any sense to have the project due to various non religious reasons
Just because media makes mountain of any Hindu mole hill you frame as it is your wont. :mrgreen:
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Jarita »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Way back when during the Jayalalitha regime the Cheyyur UMPP, 4000MW of coal from Odisha project was shot down by AMMA because none of the ‘anti-national types’(/sarc guys) near Nagapattinam wanted to part with their land. It did not make financial sense to ship coal around Lanka to Tuticorin & Tirunelveli where land was available, yes within that nest of anti-national types. Hence the Sethu Samudram was proposed. It would allow coal to be shipped to the 2,600 mw expansion planned at Tooti. Another 3,000 MW was proposed along the coast there from Kanyakumari up. Then Sethu was shut down over religious sentiment by more ‘anti-national’ types and hence the 2,600 MW project at Tuti never took off. The other projects have been suspended as imported coal is not as easy to get as Odisha coal and banks won’t finance imported coal projects without linkages. You can blame the present shortage as being due to Cheyyur and Sethu/Tuti, total 6,600MW, getting shut down.

Huh!
Sethu Samudran had huge issues (other than the so called religious ones) - thorium deposits and LTTE ships in proximity are just two of them. There were also major environmental issues where the area serves as a bank for Tsunami type waves. Leave aside the religious arguments, the whole project was flawed and infact was a classic case of a project where outsiders would have very much wanted India to execute it.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by csubash »

Hi,
I haven't been watching this thread for a while. I saw something in workplace which is interesting.

http://journals.lww.com/oncotimesuk/Ful ... on_.1.aspx

Everything in life involves taking risk-ie what's the worst risk you can get. Even a dog when has to fight with another dog weighs this risk. Unfortunately those rational thoughts seems to have gone out of the window in this polarised debate. Number of deaths due to any form of energy source has produced more deaths than the entire world nuclear power plants. The number of deaths due to unsafe roads during night without power, burglary, mugging in the past year in TN alone has produced more deaths than entire nuclear industry in the world be it new or old nuclear plants.

PS: I have nothing to do with nuclear power industry.

CSubash
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by svenkat »

OT Alert:Theoji,I have a response for you in the OT thread.
amitji:response in the OT thread.
arnab
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by arnab »

Sanku wrote:
Couple of things
1) KKNP is the current stage was fathered before the 123 clause, the conditions under which it came to existence were different.
2) It is now ready (for better or for worse)

no one will claim that Shiv Sena has a "record" of anti-Bihari violence (anti tamil violence in 70s, yes no doubt but not really anti-Bihari)
1. Saar what does 'different' mean? It was an inferior outcome (where the operator (India) bears the full liability and the supplier (Rodina) none). Unlike the new conditions post 123 where a supplier liability exists.

2. it is now 'ready' - yes :) every crappy outcome that imposes a cost on India right now (be it the T-90s or KK) is explained away as 'oh the times were different and anyway the deed is done' and we are being graced with mythical costs and stories about 'crappy' US nuclear reactors (even though Jaitpur is getting French reactors so patriotic Shiv Sena can rest at ease and go back to abusing couples for celebrating valentines day); without being told what exactly is crappy about them - compared to say the VVERs or our 320 MW PHWRS - which today after a post fukishima reevaluation, have a passive cooling capacity of up to 36 hours (compared to the new gen EPRs which have close to 100 hours of passive cooling features built in them).

Ah well - considering T-90 acquisitions are being defended on the basis of fictional accounts of an Indo-China war told on BRF threads; why should this be any different? :)
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Lilo »

The plot behind ‘Sabotage Kudankulam’
March 5, 2012
Rakesh Krishnan Simha
Fundamentalist Christian churches and remote-controlled NGOs are the new WMDs – workers of mass disruption who are working in sync with their Western backers to weaken India economically and socially. Their first big hit: the Kudankulam nuclear plant.

Source: RIA Novosti

On the night of June 20, 2011 a Tupolev-134 jetliner with 43 passengers and a crew of nine took off from Moscow for Petrozavodsk, about 950 km to the north. Midway through the flight, the plane lost altitude and crashed onto a highway in the northern republic of Karelia.

The passengers killed included Sergei Ryzhov, the chief designer of the light water nuclear reactors built by Russia in various countries, including Kudankulam in India.
In fact, the entire leadership of the reactor design unit of Russia’s state nuclear corporation was wiped out. The cause was of the crash was never satisfactorily established.
The tragedy, however, did not stop Russia from completing Ryzhov’s unfinished job in Kudankulam. That’s because the allure of the atomic power is very strong in India where high economic growth is creating an unprecedented demand for power. If the country hopes to grow at a rate of 8 percent over the next 25 years, which will lift its entire population to middle class status, then India must triple its energy supply. Nuclear power alone can meet these goals, and end India’s overdependence on oil from the volatile Gulf region.

Sounds like a good plan, but the problem is that’s not how the West sees it. The re-emergence of a fiercely independent India has long worried the West, but things are now getting out of hand. India is not only refusing to play according to the Western script, it is publicly tangoing with the Russians. That’s when the West switches to Plan B – put India back in the box.


WMDs – workers of mass disruption

India’s Prime Minister Manmohan Singh can be accused of many things – that he speaks too little and when he does say something it’s boringly banal. But nobody can accuse Singh of being prone to outbursts.

Which is why his allegation that American-funded NGOs are behind the protests at Kudankulam made headlines all over, giving what was suspected for along an added credibility. He also accused American and Scandinavian backed outfits of trying to derail India’s biotech farming sector.

Unlike the ceaseless flogging of the “foreign hand” by late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in the 1970s, Singh’s allegation was backed by solid evidence ferreted out by Indian intelligence. His office revealed that the protests at the Kudankulam nuclear plant were orchestrated by NGOs and churches, which were bringing in truckloads of paid protestors (of which there is never a dearth in India). These outfits were in turn being funded by foreign sources.

Within days India cancelled the licences of three NGOs; 77 more NGOs are on a watchlist, and the Home Ministry confirmed most were from the US and the European Union. In 2010, the US-based NGOs accounted for one-third of foreign funds worth Rs 90,000 million given to Indian NGOs.

Subverting India – in the name of God

The nexus between the Western governments, evangelist churches and NGOs has happened because they work best as a pack. Their targeting of India started in earnest with the election of George W. Bush as the US president.

In February 2002, Bush set up the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives in the White House. His agenda was to promote government aid to churches, Christian faith-based organisations and charities.

Bush was paying back a favour – a favour so huge he would do anything in return. Despite losing the popular vote to Al Gore, Dubya was elected president mainly due to the support from far right Christian evangelists who run huge transnational missionary organisations (TMOs).

According to V.K. Shashikumar’s expose in Tehelka magazine, “In the decade 1990-2000 these TMOs were running a global intelligence operation which was so complex and sophisticated that in terms of its scale, magnitude and intensity of coverage, the real short-term and long-term implications from the point of view of India's territorial integrity and national security, were indeed frightfully staggering. This operation has succeeded in putting in place a system in India which enables the US government to access any ethnographic information on any location virtually at the click of the mouse. This network in India, established with funding and strategic assistance from US-based TMOs, gives US intelligence agencies virtually real time access to every nook and corner of the country.”

Organisations like the International Mission Board, Southern Baptist Convention, Christian Aid, World Vision, Seventh Day Adventist Church and multi-billion enterprises run by evangelists and demagogues like Pat Robertson, Billy Graham and Roger Houtsma were running a coordinated conversion campaign in India under the banner of AD2000 from 1995 to 2000.

What has made things easier for the missionaries is the opening up of India to US businesses. Billy Graham and his ilk openly admit that they dispatched spying missions to India. Just as Joshua sent out the spies to survey the land and report on its condition before the children of Israel moved out in obedience to God's command, many more missionaries and Christian workers are finding research information invaluable in laying their plans, says the AD2000 document.

We want your soul, and your country

This church-state nexus has been brilliantly documented by British-born academic Iain Buchanan in his book, The Armies Of God: A Study In Militant Christianity, in which he talks about the rise of US evangelism as a force in global affairs.

He looks at the imperial relationship between Western and non-Western countries, and the main players in the process of evangelisation. In an interview to Yogesh Pawar of India’s DNA newspaper, Buchanan said, “Deep in Washington, self-professedly Christian pressure groups have both a highly influential membership and a powerful grip on policy. The network of evangelical influence goes far beyond this: there are scores of such groups at work in Congress, the military, and departments of state. All act to connect politics, business, the media, and the military with one another in pursuit of a common vision of a Christian American dominion over the world.”

So what does this mean for a targeted country? Quite simply, the US won’t stop at proselytizing for that would only be the gain of intangible Third World souls. “In addition, there must be infiltration of every sector of influence in a society, from religious groups to government departments to local charities to private business, in ways which blur the line between Christian indoctrination and secular change,” says Buchanan.

Local collaborators

Evangelicals thrive on suffering and disaster. India-born evangelist K.P. Yohannan welcomed the tsunami of 2004 as “one of the greatest opportunities God has given us to share his love with people”. He wasn’t the only one expressing such sentiments. The tsunami in India was indeed a windfall for many American churches which poured in untold billions of dollars to convert large numbers of poor fisherfolk in the Kudankulam area.

Flashpoints like Kudankulam are excellent for plucking martyrs – a key ingredient for conversion in the evangelists’ scheme of things. American evangelists have a continually updated list of names said to identify martyrs in any given district of India, and this heroism is publicised as a mark of honour for the local villages to emulate. This database is a veritable machine for generating misinformation about Christian deaths that could be blamed on others. Often deaths may have been entirely unrelated to religion. It wouldn’t be surprising if five years from now a ‘St Kudankulam’ appears in Indian Christianity’s pantheon. :shock:

Targeting Russia

The protests and roadblocks in Kudankulam are also directed against Russia. The plan was that the Russians would get tired of waiting around and pack up their bags and leave. Not only would the sterile concrete and steel edifice become a symbol of victory for the protestors, it would also be a stark reminder to Russia of the perils of doing business with India.

However, the Russians refused to be baited. (unlike the British who launched into an orgy of hate-India theatrics when their Typhoon fighter aircraft was rejected). Russia’s ambassador to India Alexander M. Kadakin, an Indophile with a deep emotional attachment to the country, understands the predicament India currently faces. In fact, he can see a parallel in this Christian-American-NGO nexus back home.

The West’s invasion of Russia’s near abroad, Bulgaria’s NATO membership and the bombing and the subsequent division of Serbia are all visible aspects of the embattled state of Orthodox Slavs. Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the West has attempted to destroy the Russian Orthodox Church, a key pillar of Russian nationalism. The Roman Catholic Church sees a huge opportunity for conversions in the CIS region, with the Vatican sending in its stormtroopers to go out and bring Russia into the Catholic fold.

Fission and friction

So what happened to Plan A? The Nuclear Suppliers Group, the global cartel which controls the export of nuclear fuel, equipment and technology, is in reality a grouping of 46 mostly Western countries that was created to stymie India’s nuclear ambitions. It was hastily set-up in 1974 as a response to India’s atomic bomb test earlier that year.

The NSG is an idea whose time has gone. Today it includes members like New Zealand, Latvia and Austria – which have absolutely no nuclear technology. For more than three decades the NSG has practiced a form of nuclear apartheid designed to exclude India from the high table. All sorts of sanctions, including denial of travel visas to Indian nuclear scientists to member countries of the NSG, were imposed.

It is indeed ironic that the NSG’s growing irrelevance started after yet another atomic explosion by India in 1998. With the leading Western nations deciding that India’s market was worth more than keeping the NSG on life support, the nuclear apartheid crumbled.

But the bickering didn’t end there. Even as the 2009 India-US civil nuclear deal opened a market for equipment and technology estimated at $175 billion, the US found itself shut out of the same market while the Russians were already close to completing two reactors at Kudankulam.

This nuclear heartburn is the reason why the Russian-built plant is being targeted. It is because the US is not able to compete on even terms that it has called in the dirty tricks department. (The crash of the Tupolev-134 carrying Ryzhov and 42 other nuclear scientists and engineers could well be a Western job.)

As Russians, Chinese and other emerging nations descend on Delhi to trade, barter and talk, the West becomes increasingly marginalised. However, it will use every tool at its disposal – including churches and NGOs – to stay in the game.

Time to end the siege


India’s power shortage is nearing a crisis and there’s little tolerance for anti-nuclear protesters, especially when it has been proved they are working for their Western masters.

Hindu nationalists are getting aggressive, seeing this brazen attack on a symbol of India’s progress. With nationalist party workers attacking a group of trucked-in protestors last week, there is now the real possibility of this becoming a law and order issue, or worse, a communal tinderbox.

India can either let Western detritus dictate terms over a $3 billion plant or give them the marching orders. How the country’s leadership acts will decide if power goes to people’s homes – or whether it will empower the enemy of the people.
Interesting article giving an indepth russian view (Ria - Novosti) on this K-affair, with lots of new tidbits.
Posting in Full.

Leaving the pros and cons of the large scale Nuclear Power adoption in the indian context aside , the non-proliferation ayotollahs in the foggy bottom have to be shown their place with respect to their meddling in Kundankulam. Frankly, GOI should bulldoze in this case with single minded determination treating this matter as it is - a collective challenge to Indian Soverignity from the western world.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

arnab wrote:
Sanku wrote:
Couple of things
1) KKNP is the current stage was fathered before the 123 clause, the conditions under which it came to existence were different.
2) It is now ready (for better or for worse)

no one will claim that Shiv Sena has a "record" of anti-Bihari violence (anti tamil violence in 70s, yes no doubt but not really anti-Bihari)
1. Saar what does 'different' mean? It was an inferior outcome (where the operator (India) bears the full liability and the supplier (Rodina) none). Unlike the new conditions post 123 where a supplier liability exists.
Dear Arnab; that was addressed to Nachiket, I will wait to see if he has any cribs with what I said.

As for your query, you have been swinging between bad mouthing the liability clause to using it to say that newer purchases will be "better" because of it.

I will let you make up your mind on where you stand before I get into a polemic exercise with you.

Also I have no idea what rest of the confused veribage is supposed to mean. Stick to topic and perhaps it will be useful.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

If the UPA was not indebted to TN politicos,there would've been little problem in squshing the protests and exposing the western mafia behind the protests.After the electoral debacle in UP,etc.,the UPA is surviving from week to week.The only silver lining appears to be the DMK's demand to open the plant.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

Philip wrote:If the UPA was not indebted to TN politicos,there would've been little problem in squshing the protests and exposing the western mafia behind the protests.After the electoral debacle in UP,etc.,the UPA is surviving from week to week.The only silver lining appears to be the DMK's demand to open the plant.
Err no Philip. UPA has blaming its coalition partners from everything from blatant loot to Yuvraj not getting married. However this is clearly not a case of coalition partner staying the hand.

DMK has definitely not come out in support of the protesters, and JJ who runs TN right now, is not a ally, and is neither arm twisting UPA or is in position too. At most we can say that she will not support police action against the protesters.

However since UPA is not remotely indebted to JJ, the question of her actions and UPA constraints is moot.

The mess is because of a simple reason, UPA has no real interest in operationalizing the plant. Handling local concerns properly (along with fixing the trouble makers) is part of the various steps needed to carry out the operationalization.

It is Congress/UPA's failure, plain and simple, keeping in the track record of failing in pretty much each and every governance task over last many years, and failing spectacularly. Failure stemming from no real interest to do the right thing.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

I saw that some folks had taken a discussion on nuclear matters to OT thread so I thought I will put some real facts on the ground, which might have been misrepresented there

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_c ... et_1564429

Congress goons disrupt anti-Jaitapur meet

The annual meeting of NGOs, under the banner of Konkan Vinashkari Prakalp Virodhi Samiti (KVPVS) in Ratnagiri, was allegedly disrupted on Sunday by Congress goons.

The Samiti, which is vehemently opposing the proposed Jaitapur Nuclear Power Project (JNPP), has claimed that the goons are close associates of industries minister Narayan Rane.

“They tried to threaten us. They warned us, saying no such meeting will be allowed in Ratnagiri city since people attending are outsiders,” said Vaishali Patil of KVPVS. She added that the Congress is losing its ground due to increasing support for the anti-JNPP movement and has therefore turned to such acts.

Congress activist Sameer Zari said that outsiders were spreading wrong information about the development projects. “We had to stop the meeting, since lot of nonsense was being discussed there,” he told DNA.

Interestingly, the ‘outsiders’ in question were villagers from neighbouring districts of Raigad and Sindhudurg. Amjad Borkar, who was representing fishermen from Sakhri Nate village near JNPP, was also asked to leave the meeting venue. “The police disrupted a simple annual meeting. This is the murder of democracy by the ruling party itself,” said Patil.
Note there is no Shiv Sena in the picture above, Congress forcibly shut down a democratic discussion.

=================================

Now let us look at the Allegation that "Shiv Sena did not let Kakodakar speak" (the choice of words by the poster making the claim)

Let us SEE what REALLY happened. :)

http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a283082.html

However, the programme was cancelled at the last minute Sunday afternoon by the organisers after threats by anti-JNPP groups to disrupt the proceedings, even as all the invited groups also boycotted the function, she said.
So in reality the conference was called off because the invites refused to turn up -- but hey use it to blame Shiv Sena goons even as in reality the goonda gardi was done in past by congress and not by Shiv Sena at Kakodakar's venue.
Incidentally, in the past, local Congress activists had demonstrated and disrupted meetings of the anti-JNPP and other groups opposing the nuclear project coming up at Jaitapur in Ratnagiri district.
Patil added that all the anti-JNPP groups have taken serious umbrage at the recent statements by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on foreign support to NGOs attempting to derail mega-developmental projects in the country.
Satyamev Jayate.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vishvak »

Some info of safety features of the Kudankulam nuclear plant
link
About safety it says:
PM further asserted that Kudankulam has safety features at par with those of VVER 1200.
A bit about Passive heat removal system - a safety feature of VVER 1200 From Wiki link
Passive heat removal system

A passive heat removal system has been added to the existing active systems in the AES-92 version of the VVER-1000 used for the Koodankulam Nuclear Power Plant in India. This has been retained for the newer VVER-1200 and future designs. The system is based on a cooling system and water tanks built on top of the containment dome.[10] The passive systems all safety functions for 24 hours, and core safety for 72 hours.[4]
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

amit wrote:Amber,

Thanks for the links, particularly Chu's comment. However, I hope you do realize that he would be classified as an idiot - Nobel Prize be damned - by "experts" on this thread? Afterall as per the bolded portions of the article he is saying essentially the same thing as certified "idiots" such as me have been saying, which is if one wants to make a serious dent to green house gases then nuclear is the way to go.

Now wait for the 0.0000001% percent comment from the most pre-eminent of the "experts". :)
Indeed! I thought there may be some exaggeration but looking at some of the comments by some .. I still can not believe that you would be so correct!!!

But then I remember while I was educating people here wrt Chernobyl by giving perspective of one friend/guru who I personally know fairly well, who was a Russian physicist and had first hand knowledge .. (who won Noble Prize in Physics, so he must know something about nuclear physics) ..the same crowd dismissed him as an idiot or worse while worshiping worthies like Busby ...

Of course we all know how Bhabha and other Indian scientists are dismissed here by the same crowd..

Jai Ho!

It is truly a shame that BRF environment has degraded so much in recent years that sane voices, and reputable scientists are driven away.

In any case I wanted to share a very nice article.. let me post it in next message.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Folks - I was the first person here in BRF to post about Fukushima. (Japan Tsunami was a big news item but it took some time before news sources started reporting on NPP).

There was a lot of ignorance and hysteria about the effects of radiation, and at the request of one of the BRF admin I tried to put some scientific perspective here in BRF. Most of the main-stream media (even respected ones like NYT) irresponsibly talked about "dead men walking"... millions of potential deaths due to radiation.. untold horror etc...

With exception of few sites (like MITNSE), and few posters (from me, GuruPrabhu, Gerard, Bade, Arnab, Amit and other scientific minded people etc).. most news outlets and BRF amplified the nonsense of people like Busby who did not know the difference between NPP and nuclear bomb..they were throwing figures in hundreds of thousands (even millions) of deaths due to cancer and what not .

As we all know, the number of deaths due to radiation post Fukushima is ZERO (TMI - the worst accident in USA and in spite of all the hype and dozens of studies in last 30 years .. the extra cancer deaths directly attributed to radiation is still ZERO)

At the one year anniversary of Fukushima, I will urge you to read my messages here in archives (along with others) to see how it all panned out. Scientific knowledge is important.

Anyway let me present a nice video (about 15 minutes) it is a must watch, if you have not seen it already. After taking data from last one year, it puts the things in perspective.

Highly recommend it:
Fukushima and Chernobyl: Myth versus Reality


>>Leading experts from the UN Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR), the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP) and the Chernobyl Tissue Bank discuss the effects of radiation from a nuclear accident.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

csubash wrote:Hi,
I haven't been watching this thread for a while. I saw something in workplace which is interesting.

http://journals.lww.com/oncotimesuk/Ful ... on_.1.aspx

Everything in life involves taking risk-ie what's the worst risk you can get. Even a dog when has to fight with another dog weighs this risk. Unfortunately those rational thoughts seems to have gone out of the window in this polarised debate. Number of deaths due to any form of energy source has produced more deaths than the entire world nuclear power plants. The number of deaths due to unsafe roads during night without power, burglary, mugging in the past year in TN alone has produced more deaths than entire nuclear industry in the world be it new or old nuclear plants.

PS: I have nothing to do with nuclear power industry.

CSubash
I have put something like this MANY times here in BRF... the Youtube video I posted above, has essentially the same UNSCEAR sources... In fact any reputable source will essentially be consistent with your link ...

One of the examples I often give: radiation due to living near a NPP is about as risky as eating 1 banana per year.

Some other readable articles... (May have been posted before)
Radiation and risk
Radiation Risk in Perspective
MITNSE site..
One of the best resource, and I recommend it very highly is the text book..
"Physics for Future Presidents" by one of the brightest mind - Mueller ... Read the chapter about Radiation, nuclear power etc.
Here is the link: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9226.html
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

I have reported the above post(s) as they will only derail the thread by restarting (a already quite emphatically closed) discussion on Fukushima.

We can discuss the latest on the international nuclear thread on the topic melt-down at reactors and the evacuation efforts if admins permit, as I remember they had had to shut down because they resulted in similarly melting down the discussion threads.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by gakakkad »

lather.. rinse ..repeat ..
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by gakakkad »

anyway , the India is in full control now. threats have either been expelled , out of the country or are about to be expelled ..

Well before , it was out in public , brfites figured it out that , koodankulum was a American job using Catholic NGOs as a front. Philip ,svenkat and I produced a lot of posts about this. We even drew a connection to the murder of the Russian nuclear top brass to that of koodankalam protests.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

Gakkakad,how is the end game going to play out? The latest whines from Kani and the DMK about mins resigning on the Lankan issue(?),shows that there is still considerable mischief to be let loose by vested interests.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by nelson »

Even though belated, some positive development.

TN Cabinet gives go ahead for Kudankulam N-Plant: Jayalalithaa

http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/tam ... epage=true
Last edited by nelson on 19 Mar 2012 15:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

nelson wrote:Even though belated, some positive development.

TN Cabinet gives go ahead for Kudankulam N-Plant: Jayalalithaa

We will have to wait to see the price that amma has extracted for this magnanimity.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

The panwalla says that the work will now resume post haste.

Amma has assured that law and order will be maintained strictly. People who disturb the peace will be jugged forthwith.

Panwalla also says that at a high level meeting between amma and the nuclear community hoi polloi about two weeks ago, she was given all details, chapter and verse, of the involvement of nefarious outside groups. amma has always been strategic minded in her approach.

amma has currently been promised about 960 MW as per public agreement. More may have been promised to sweeten the deal.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by gakakkad »

Philip wrote:Gakkakad,how is the end game going to play out? The latest whines from Kani and the DMK about mins resigning on the Lankan issue(?),shows that there is still considerable mischief to be let loose by vested interests.

don't know about the tamil issue . My pan wallahs are from the nookular establishment. They were worried about both political and physical sabotage. They have spent the last few months screening all employee's to ensure that no one has infiltrated the agencies..now the central agencies have got the act together..

Udaykumar will be seem frothing and foaming in the coming weeks..
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanatanan »

chetak wrote: The panwalla says that the work will now resume post haste.
Jayalalithaa govt. gives go ahead to Kudankulam N-plant
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by svenkat »

From the above link,
She also sought the cooperation of political parties and all concerned to immediately resume work at the plant in Tirunelveli district, stalled following protests since September 2011, spearheaded by the People’s Movement Against Nuclear Energy (PMANE).

In the meanwhile, for the first time in the past seven-and-a-half months, the police acted against the anti-Kudankulam Nuclear Power Project protestors on Monday when the law-enforcers arrested nine anti-KKNPP protestors, including the two members of the anti-KKNPP struggle committee.

The Cabinet has decided to allocate Rs. 500 crore for locals to set up a cold storage for fish catch, construct houses, lay roads and repair mechanised fishing boats, she said.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by svenkat »

Police crack whip on anti-Kudankulam protest
All the nine, including anti-KKNPP struggle committee members S. Sivasubramanian and K. Rajalingam, all from Kudankulam, were arrested at 12.45 p.m. when they were standing opposite Kamaraj Statue near the main entrance of the upcoming nuclear power project. Though Kudankulam parish priest Rev. Fr. Thatheus Rajan was also present at that time along with the protestors, he was allowed to go.
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