Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 19 Jul 2014

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Aug 2014 07:33

Pakistan is at an interesting juncture.

Im the Dim, TuQ and Nawz Sharif have their supporters.

The army cannot go against any one of them. Sharif has the backing of Islamists, but the army is not too happy with him

Imran Khan may or may not have army backing - but they will piss off Islamists in Pakjab if they act against Sharif. Acting against TuQ alone is of no use. It will put people against army and still leave Sharif and Im the dim free.

There will be no army takeover for now. i think there cannot be any army takeover even in the medium term

wig · Post by **wig** » 28 Aug 2014 08:14

paul ji had earlier mentioned that Tu Q is barelvi. this article seems to state that Tu Q is out to revive barelvi political setup which seems to be moribund.

Irrespective of what Allama Tahirul Qadri is destined to achieve through his politics of agitation, he is injecting a sort of activism among disillusioned Barelvi religious organisations with a political orientation.
Most religio-political organisations subscribing to the Barelvi school of thought do not have organised structures and networks. Pirs, or custodians of shrines, and influential religious scholars constitute the local power centres and seek strength from the followers of their respective shrines.
They hesitate to pool their local political resources to form a mainstream party fearing it might compromise their authority. Also, they think it will curtail their bargaining position in local politics used to make alliances with mainstream political parties. Eventually, they tend to secure their local interests that are largely linked to maintaining their influence over their followers. Although they sometimes succeed in getting electoral tickets from mainstream political parties, this factor has been largely responsible for the weak electoral performance of Barelvi parties in Pakistan.
But a prominent Barelvi scholar and leader Tahirul Qadri has successfully managed to build and develop the structure of his organisation along the lines of the Jamaat-i-Islami and similar groups following the Salafi and Deobandi schools of thought. He has developed separate organisational structures for the charity, religious, educational and political wings of his movement. Organisations of this sort not only appeal to the urban middle classes in Pakistan, their different wings and departments also create the synergy needed to sustain and develop them.
Qadri’s dilemma is how to capitalise on the religious and political support base he has developed
Minhajul Quran International, headed by Tahirul Qadri, is running a large chain of schools and madressahs across the country which help it garner public support and attract funding from the upper middle classes and Pakistani diasporas in the West. Students and teachers of these schools and those working in charities operated by the organisation are political assets of Tahirul Qadri’s Pakistan Awami Tehreek. In the recent PAT demonstrations, most of the participating families, including women and children, are either students, employees or other beneficiaries of the schools and charity institutions of Minhajul Quran.
Many other religio-political organisations are doing the same. Qadri’s dilemma, however, is how to capitalise on the religious and political support base he has developed over the past two decades or so. Many factors have contributed towards strengthening Salafi and Deobandi groups and parties in Pakistan. Many of them have gradually become part of mainstream politics. On the other hand, the Barelvi groups and parties have weakened over time. Their share in the sectarian and militant discourse has also remained minimal, even when Salafi and Deobandi organisations were thriving in this area.
Though Barelvi scholars and leaders project themselves as peaceful Sufi believers, they felt marginalised during the Soviet-Afghan war in the 1980s. They had then blamed the security establishment and Saudi Arabia for discouraging their participation in the Afghan jihad. Many Barelvi leaders also believed that the insurgency in India-held Kashmir was their front to fight from, but they were ignored there too.
They claim that the groups who had instigated the insurgency in India-held Kashmir were indigenous, nationalist and followers of the Barelvi school of thought but the security establishment replaced them with groups belonging to other sects who had experienced fighting in Afghanistan.
Such claims made by Barelvi leaders previously suggested that they had the desire and potential to become proxies in regional insurgencies. Some even felt that Barelvi organisations had paid a political price for staying or being kept away from the jihadist discourse while rival sectarian groups had successfully generated and spent funds on developing their religious, social welfare, educational and political infrastructures.
This perception has created an impression among some Barelvi religio-political groups that they can regain their political share in the power structure through establishing good relations with the establishment and developing militant credentials. In the recent past, Barelvi parties have paid less attention to restructuring and organising themselves along modern lines. Nonetheless, their prime emphasis has remained on developing good relations with the country’s security establishment. Qadri has managed to achieve both.
However, establishing militant credentials is a difficult task. A Barelvi organisation Sunni Tehreek attempted to do so in Karachi but eventually decided on a political role. It did not have a nexus with militant organisations in the country or abroad which would provide its cadres with militant training and logistics. Secondly, the Sunni Tehreek did not have any tactical sectarian support from an Arab country.
Given that they do not have organised violent groups as do Salafi and Deobandi organisations, it should not be surprising if Barelvi parties start depending on mob violence to achieve their religio-political objectives. But gaining political power through mob protests and violence is a hard task. The reason is obvious; mobs cannot hold their instant emotions over sustained periods. Politics is a rational discourse where people have multiple choices.
Tahirul Qadri has the ability to mobilise crowds for political purposes but is confused about where to lead them. He is unable to transform his rabble-rousing into electoral success. Despite his current clout, he is unlikely to secure even a few seats in parliament and to get a share in the system like the Jamaat-i-Islami and Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam-Fazl. One obvious reason is that he has gradually detached himself from the mainstream political discourse and built his entire political clout on extra-constitutional and undemocratic narratives.
Interestingly, the late Shah Ahmad Noorani of the Jamiat Ulema-i-Pakistan had realised in the late 1990s that the Barelvis’ political survival is in mainstream religious politics as they cannot compete with the well-organised Jamaat and Jamiat through solo flights. He supported political alliances of religious parties and was a major motivating force behind the creation of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal in 2002.
Does Qadri have such vision and patience to give direction to Barelvi politics in Pakistan? If not, he will continue acting as a spoiler and a destabilising agent. Certainly, this is not a good model to follow.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/dilemma-barelvi-politics/

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Aug 2014 08:39

Anujan wrote:Meanwhile

Supreme court of Pajama-stan?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 28 Aug 2014 08:47

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sout ... e-28951612

The report which revealed the abuse of more than 1,400 children in Rotherham - mainly by men of Pakistani heritage - found many reasons why the shocking scale of child sexual exploitation in the South Yorkshire town remained hidden.

Councillors and council staff in particular were criticised for "avoiding public discussion"; some through fear of being thought racist, and some through "wholesale denial" of the problem.

In 2010, five Asian men from Rotherham were found guilty of sex offences against girls as young as 12, and in 2011 Ashtiaq Asghar was jailed for the murder of 17-year-old Laura Wilson, who had been a victim of sexual exploitation.

So action was not taken on "Asian men" in the name of political correctness. Also listen to video in the page.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 28 Aug 2014 08:52

So couple of fellas suspected in Imran Farooq's murder got arrested. To those who dont know, Imran Farooq was Altaf Bhai's close confidante. There was a falling out and Imran Farooq got murdered in Londonistan. Back to the story.....

....So a couple of fellas suspected in the murder got arrested in UK and now Altaf Bhai who wanted democracy is supporting the Padri Qadri.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/752891/isla ... r-30-days/

Our correspondent Rabia Ali reports that MQM chief Altaf Hussain in a television interview said that if the government is not ready to accept the PAT chief Dr Tahirul Qadri’s legitimate demands, then its better that it packs up and goes home voluntarily in order to avoid bloodshed.

partha · Post by **partha** » 28 Aug 2014 08:54

I find two things really funny in Pak politics. Altaf Bhai addressing large crowds in Karachi through telephone from London and this Qadri fellow. Total comedy.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 28 Aug 2014 08:57

Gaganullah,

If ju look carefully, the pajamas are strategically located. Eye think that ij the Supereme Court of M T (Muslim Terrorists).

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Aug 2014 10:25

Crisis looms large as Sharif weakens

Thursday, 28 August 2014 | Hiranmay Karlekar | in Oped

The situation along the Line of Control and the International Border is set to worsen. A war with Pakistan cannot be ruled out

Breath-taking statements that Pakistan's intensifying shelling of Indian territory across the Line of Control in Kashmir and the International Border along Jammu, is due to New Delhi calling off the Foreign Secretary level talks with Islamabad, scheduled to have started from August 25, ignores the real reason: Pakistan's internal turmoil. At the time of writing, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's confrontation with Mr Imran Khan's Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf and cleric Tahir ul-Qadri's Pakistan Awami Tehreek, seems set to cause widespread disorder. To Mr Khan's insistence that Mr Sharif step down for 30 days during which an independent body would complete investigating charges of widespread rigging in the last election, which brought the incumbent Prime Minister to power, Mr Qadri has now added the further demand that Mr Sharif resigns within 48 hours.

While Mr Sharif is clearly in no mood to oblige Mr Khan or Mr Qadri, the Pakistani Army, which does not enjoy a very friendly relationship with the Prime Minister, is watching. It has not made any statement that might indicate a move toward a coup but has made it clear that it wants the civilian Government to share political space with it.

The presence of terror groups like the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba, Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan and Afghan Taliban, seriously complicates matters. Of these, the TTP is at war with the Pakistani Government, the Afghan Taliban acts as an instrument of the latter against the Afghan Government but gives sanctuary and assistance to the TTP. The LeT is a spawn of the Pakistani Government — in particular, of the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate — and has close ties with it. Prime Minister Sharif and his brother, Mr Shahbaz Sharif, have very good relations with its chief, Hafiz Saeed. The Government of Pakistan's Punjab Province, run by the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz), provided the Jamaat-ud-Dawa’ah, LeT's parent body, a grant-in-aid of more than Rs6.1 crore, another allocation for Rs35 crore in the budget for fiscal 2013-2014.

These were not the only allocations. In between 2009 and 2010, the provincial Government provided more than Rs8.2 crore for the administration of JuD facilities. In fiscal 2010-2011, Chief Minister Sharif, using his discretionary powers, allocated Rs7.98 crore for six organisations at Markaz-e-Tayyeba and a special grant-in-aid of Rs30 lakhs for the JuD's Al-Dawa school system in several districts of Punjab. It is important to remember all this because there are three ways in which the present situation in Pakistan conduces to a ratcheting up of tensions with India. First, serious clashes along the international border and the LoC, threatening to escalate into a full-fledged war, tends to divert attention from the crisis at home. It also enables the Government to ask people to rally behind it in its confrontation with India and a chance to accuse its opponents of dividing the country when it needs internal cohesion against an external enemy.

Second, in such a situation, the LeT can be expected to sharply escalate its terror strikes against India to oblige the Government and also further its own cross-border designs. Third, the Pakistani Army has every reason to encourage the LeT not only because it is pathologically hostile to India, but sees in escalating border clashes with the latter an opportunity to divert attention from its own dismal failure in its war against the TTP and reinforce its self-projection as the sole defender of Pakistan's unity and integrity. In fact, escalating tensions with India will be useful to rationalise a coup on the ground that the country will not be safe in the hands warring civilian politicians at a time of national crisis!

Clearly, the situation along the LoC and the international boundary is set to worsen and one cannot rule out a full-fledged war with Pakistan. The country must not be caught unprepared.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 28 Aug 2014 11:39

From teetar

>>Dr Majorly PhD ‏@majorlyp 4h
Everyone laughed at my idea that Pakistan should let Taliban take over & then depose them in a Coup. Army has lost wars & never lost a coup

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Aug 2014 12:01

The pakis were pressuring the GOI to allow a "made in pukiland" exhibition in Mumbai, despite all the bad blood.

Anybody have any updates on this, TIA.

partha · Post by **partha** » 28 Aug 2014 12:06

Not sure about the exhibition but there is some Paki fashion show going on in Mumbai and Delhi.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 28 Aug 2014 12:09

Baki fashion show..... ???!!!! Are they displaying goat clothes and accessories?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 28 Aug 2014 12:41

The Pakistani military is close to an agreement with the government in which the prime minister would relinquish control of security affairs and strategic foreign policy, government officials said, amid antigovernment protests that have paralyzed the capital.

A nearly two-week confrontation between the administration and demonstrators, which the government believes are backed by the military, has put Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif under pressure.

Government aides said the military has seized on Mr. Sharif's weakened status during the political crisis to strike a deal in which he would leave strategic policy areas—including relations with the U.S., Afghanistan and India—to be controlled by the armed forces.

The military is now seeking guarantees from the prime minister that he will follow through on the agreement, the aides said.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/pakistan ... 1409186231

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Aug 2014 13:36

Anujan wrote:
The Pakistani military is close to an agreement with the government in which the prime minister would relinquish control of security affairs and strategic foreign policy, government officials said, amid antigovernment protests that have paralyzed the capital.

A nearly two-week confrontation between the administration and demonstrators, which the government believes are backed by the military, has put Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif under pressure.

Government aides said the military has seized on Mr. Sharif's weakened status during the political crisis to strike a deal in which he would leave strategic policy areas—including relations with the U.S., Afghanistan and India—to be controlled by the armed forces.

The military is now seeking guarantees from the prime minister that he will follow through on the agreement, the aides said.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/pakistan ... 1409186231

If anyone has access, could they post the full article, please. TIA

partha · Post by **partha** » 28 Aug 2014 13:46

^
Google -> paste the url in the search box -> click on the first result which is the same url.

vdutta · Post by **vdutta** » 28 Aug 2014 14:07

Have you guys ever wondered why there were no terrorist attacks in those rallies.

Them talibanis can go attack fortified airbases and this laang march is a cake walk for them. Police is not checking people, mob has penetrated deep in to red zone, lot of media, lot of rich people, lot of ungaurded politicians and yet they have decided to not take advantage. Especially since operation zarb ke kabz is going on this would have been a good time to take revenge.

Looks like those talibanis always worked under the instructions of ISI and wont attack any ISI sponsored dharna. Clearly shows who is pulling their strings.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 28 Aug 2014 15:52

Gagan wrote:
Anujan wrote:Meanwhile

Supreme court of Pajama-stan?

Islamic State of Big Pajamas.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 28 Aug 2014 16:03

Pakistan on tenterhooks as protesters gear up for "decisive day" by Reuters.

Pakistan slipped deeper into crisis on Thursday after talks between the government and the opposition failed and protesters prepared for what their leaders declared would be a "deciding day" in their bid to bring down the prime minister.

Qadri...told his supporters to prepare for a decisive day in their campaign.

I have stopped counting the number of times Pakistan has been on "tenterhooks". By the way, what is "on tenterhooks" actually? By definition "On tenterhooks" means "In a state of uncomfortable suspense". Hey that's what we feel when we watch reruns on Dracula or Attack of the Undead. Describes bakistan to a T.

But "on tenterhooks" has a more mundane origin:

Tenters are no longer everyday objects but a hundred years ago, in wool weaving areas like the North of England, they were a common sight on the land around the many woollen mills, called 'tenter-fields'. It is easy to see how the figurative expression 'on tenterhooks', with its meaning of painful tension, derived from the 'tenting' or stretching of fabric.

Ah, the tightening or tensioning of loose pajamas now makes more relevant sense. That's why the famous photo of shrilleen mazari's pajamas hanging on the supreme court's monument sign makes more sense. She is sending the court a message: we are on tenterhooks.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Aug 2014 16:15

Fantasizing about peace with Pakistan - G.Parthasarathy, Business Line

Diplomatic engagement with a neighbour having territorial ambitions and an abiding desire to alter the balance of power has to be carefully planned and executed. Apart from realistically assessing the balance of military and economic power, one has also to carefully assess the neighbour’s internal political equations, and whether the political and army leadership have the inclination and the will to live at peace, without resorting to terrorism as an instrument of state policy.

Sadly, there are vociferous sections in India that believe that dialogue with Pakistan is an end in itself, without really studying what the alternative options are.

Pakistan lost its eastern half and 13,000 square kilometres of its territory in the west, one half of its navy, one-fourth of its air force and army, with India holding 90,368 POWs, at the end of the 1971 Bangladesh conflict. In subsequent negotiations in Shimla with her counterpart Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, India’s most hard-headed Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was persuaded by key officials that Bhutto would be devastated politically if he went back empty-handed from the talks. While returning the POWs was inevitable, what was surprising was a decision to withdraw from the territory captured by our forces, following a mere verbal assurance from Bhutto that he would, in due course, settle the Kashmir issue.

Bhutto had no intention of abiding by his verbal commitment. Within a decade, Pakistan sought to upset the territorial status quo by promoting a communal divide in Punjab. This was followed by arming and training disaffected Kashmiri youths to promote an armed insurgency in J&K. Pakistan also sought to exploit ‘fault lines’ in India’s body politic. It executed terrorist strikes, such as the Mumbai bomb blasts in 1993 in which 250 Indians perished while the perpetrator, Dawood Ebrahim, resides comfortably in Karachi and even ventures abroad on a Pakistani passport. All these developments took place amidst continuing ‘dialogue’ with Pakistan.

False hopes

The dialogue was called off by Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto in 1994 when she found that efforts to coerce India on J&K had not worked. Moreover, unlike in earlier years, Kashmiri youths were becoming increasingly wary of crossing the LoC, to be armed and trained for jihad. What followed was the induction of Pakistani nationals from ISI-backed terrorist outfits such as the Jaish-e-Mohammed, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen and Lashkar-e-Taiba.

It is important to note that this shift in Pakistani strategies from support for a Kashmiri “freedom struggle” to jihad by Pakistani terrorists occurred not because of any “composite dialogue” but because of ground realities. Moreover, it was during this period that, thanks to imaginative political initiatives and effective policing, Pakistan-backed militancy in Punjab ended. Terrorists from the Babbar Khalsa and the International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF), however, still reside in Lahore and elsewhere in Pakistan.

The dialogue stand-off

Prime Minister IK Gujral initiated discussions in 1997 with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, later described as the “Composite Dialogue Process,” in which dialogue on terrorism was not given significant priority. Terrorism was merely put on the same pedestal as drug smuggling!

The first round of this dialogue was held in 1998, after the nuclear tests. Determined to ensure that India was seen as sincere in its quest for peace, Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited Lahore, only to find that rather than promoting peace, the resumption of the dialogue was accompanied by Pakistani intrusions across the LoC, leading to the Kargil conflict, amidst Pakistani threats of nuclear escalation. President Musharraf’s visit to Agra was followed by the attack on India’s Parliament in December 2001. Structured dialogue had only led to an escalation of terrorism and violence.

The military stand-off after the attack on Parliament and the post 9/11 American invasion of Afghanistan forced Musharraf to think afresh. He proposed a ceasefire across the LoC and gave an assurance that “territory under Pakistan’s control” would not be used for terrorism against India. He abided by his commitments.{That was because the Americans did not want any flare-up on the eastern front. We cannot attribute it to Musharraf's 'genuine' committment to peace process}

The UPA government was, however, horribly wrong in presuming that a weak democratic government led by Asif Ali Zardari, a Sindhi Shia, would be able to rein in the jihadi propensities of General Ashfaq Kayani, a hardcore Islamist. New Delhi also underestimated the significance of the deadly ISI-sponsored attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul on July 7, 2008. The terror strike of 26/11 in Mumbai was inevitable. It was the public outcry that followed the disastrous summit diplomacy in Sharm el Sheikh, Egypt, which forced the UPA government to tread warily thereafter.

Given what followed the attack on India’s embassy in Kabul, New Delhi should not underestimate the significance of the attack on the Indian consulate in Herat on the eve of Nawaz Sharif’s visit to Delhi. The recent demonstrations led by Imran Khan and Tahir ul Qadri enjoy behind the scenes backing of the Pakistani military establishment.

Wishful thinking

The army has indicated that it will assist Sharif. But in return for this support it has demanded that Sharif “must share more space with the army”. To expect that in these circumstances, Sharif can deliver on India’s concerns on terrorism, or promote trade and energy cooperation significantly, is wishful thinking. The tough stance that India has taken on the links of the Pakistan establishment with the Hurriyat conveys that it is not going to be “business as usual” with Pakistan, especially if it continues with ceasefire violations while abetting terrorism in India and threatening our diplomatic missions and nationals in Afghanistan.

In her meticulously researched book, The Pakistan Army’s Ways of War, American academic Christine Faire notes that in order to deal with Pakistani army policies which undermine US interests and seek to destabilise India, the US should consider means to “contain the threats that emanate from Pakistan, if not Pakistan itself”. This is the first time a reputed American academic has spoken of the need to “contain” Pakistan. While calibrated engagement with whoever rules Pakistan is necessary, it has to be complemented with measures to tighten India’s internal security, enhance military capabilities and raise the costs for Pakistan if it pursues its present efforts to “weaken India from within”.

The writer is a former High Commissioner to Pakistan

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Aug 2014 16:21

anupmisra wrote: That's why the famous photo of shrilleen mazari's pajamas hanging on the supreme court's monument sign makes more sense. She is sending the court a message: we are on tenterhooks.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 28 Aug 2014 19:30

Kureel says it aptly

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 28 Aug 2014 20:05

Gagan wrote:
Anujan wrote:Meanwhile

Supreme court of Pajama-stan?

How apt. Somebody couldn't have Photoshopped it better. I wonder if this is by design but Pajamas are hanging over 'Pakistan' only. Comedy of Errors or Errors of Comedy ...

-M

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Aug 2014 20:41

Its Pakjabi Islamic Shalwars State (PISS)

Lots of tenterhooks on the right most shalwar!!!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Aug 2014 21:10

Mihaylo wrote:

How apt. Somebody couldn't have Photoshopped it better. I wonder if this is by design but Pajamas are hanging over 'Pakistan' only. Comedy of Errors or Errors of Comedy ...

-M

That pic is a classic. A keeper. it's no photoshop. The letters are raised off the surface of the board - possibly by pins or screws. See the garment hanging off the apex of the second "A'" in PakistAn

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Aug 2014 21:15

Primate minister close to reaching deal with Army: WSJ
Camel & Donkey

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is close to making a deal with the Pakistan Army, in the backdrop of the political events that are unfolding in the federal capital, The Wall Street Journal reported.The report suggests that as per the proposed agreement, the armed forces would control strategic policy areas, such as relations with the United States, Afghanistan and India.The military has extracted a promise of freedom for former president (retd) General Pervez Musharraf and that Sharif's government had secretly agreed to let Musharraf go abroad after a symbolic indictment over treason, which took place in March.The Wall Street Journal says the government went back on the deal as a result of which trust had eroded between the military and Sharif.Government aides said the military has seized on Sharif's weakened status during the political crisis and are now seeking guarantees from the prime minister that he will follow through on the agreement, the report suggests.It also says that for the rest of his term, Sharif will be a ceremonial prime minister."If Nawaz Sharif survives, for the rest of his term, he will be a ceremonial prime minister—the world will not take him seriously," said Ayesha Siddiqa, an analyst based in Islamabad. "A soft coup has already taken place. The question is whether it will harden," the report says.Government aides said in the report that the administration was also willing to let the prime minister's brother, Shahbaz Sharif, step down as chief minister of Punjab, the country's most heavily populated region.Thousands of protesters led by cleric Tahir-ul-Qadri and Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf Chairman Imran Khan have camped outside the parliament building in Islamabad to demand the resignation of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.Khan has alleged massive cheating in the May 2013 poll, though international observers said the vote was largely free and fair.

partha · Post by **partha** » 28 Aug 2014 21:22

Where is inquilab? It was supposed to begin at 3PM.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 28 Aug 2014 21:24

"If Nawaz Sharif survives, for the rest of his term, he will be a ceremonial prime minister—the world will not take him seriously," said Ayesha Siddiqa, an analyst based in Islamabad. "A soft coup has already taken place. The question is whether it will harden."

good that modi called off talks, why waste time with an idiot?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Aug 2014 21:25

To Poop or not to Poop

National Dilemma For "Pakistan"

The fact is that the prime minister seems to have been confined to the administration of a small area rather than a medium-sized nuclear weapon state. Domestically, it will have to operate with zero margin of error as far as governance is concerned. Perhaps, the threat will dissipate after some ‘other’ people retire and go home.But it is equally possible that some of the men on horseback may not be entirely satisfied with the idea of going the whole hog. Thus, the possibility of a hard coup remains equally high. What keeps it away is possibly that there is still a lot of thought being put into what will replace the present set-up. According to the grapevine, there is a lack of consensus within the armed forces regarding fate of the government. Notwithstanding claims that the army would keep away from direct involvement because of its involvement in North Waziristan and now the eastern border, there are those who seem sceptical about the idea of trusting a civilian leadership that could threaten them at their own base. It’s the melting away of power which may unnerve some of those who have lots of it. The civilian regime may make a lot of unnecessary concessions to keep the boys either happy or divided but it is ultimately the longevity and probability of challenging some of the core institutional interests that make some amongst the deep state resentful.The situation may change when some of the old brass goes home in a couple of months. The newer officers may not share the same instinct. But the question is that even another 15 days or a month in these conditions would make things even more painful. The virtual collapse of the government (spiritually if not physically) is imminent.Someone watching Pakistan from afar would really wonder if the state has not begun to resemble some of the countries in Africa. There is a deep power struggle amongst the ruling elite that totally ignores the fact that the country and its people cannot afford this kind of life style. Anarchy, in fact, has become Pakistan’s trademark. The battle for and obsession with power is to a degree that while challenging opponents leaders do not consider longer interest of the state and its people. Asking people not to pay taxes or sending money through official channels is not just about starving the government. It is about establishing a very bad habit that the country can ill-afford. What if Imran Khan makes the government tomorrow which does not meet an ideal standard that he seems to have set for his followers? This is not protest but a criminalisation of politics which is as bad as some of what he seems to object to.
We hear little about the negative impact of the current state of politics. People are actually losing opportunities and the economy is bleeding money faster than usual. The small and medium entrepreneurs that I talked to recently in various cities of Punjab complained about how business has almost dried up since the marches were announced. The reason people are not crying out loud and surviving is probably due to a parallel economy. The pro-government rallies are not likely to help improve conditions but increase the threat of a real conflict. Many believe that the clash between mobs is what might open doors for a hard coup.Perhaps, the powers that be should take a plunge. It will be interesting to see what they then feel about a world they created themselves. The establishment and its many intellectual clients often refer to the Bangladesh model. What they often forget is that Dhaka’s political system or people’s choices did not change even with intervention.. The question is can Pakistan afford such experimentation?This is a not a moment for personal egos but for compromises which aim at benefiting the country and not just the individual. Instead of aiming at resignation of the prime minister it would help if Imran and Qadri could extract commitment for transparent institutional changes which will take this country a long way. If not then we have terribly lost our way into an endless abyss. ( Did i not say this Yesterdin?)

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 28 Aug 2014 21:30

What's soft coooo? What a joke and where are fourfathers advising pakis about civilian rights? And now what's the point of talks.

By the way, was that bunch of pakis, who earlier met cashmere separatists against clear wishes of Indian side, under any control of civilian authority at all? Or else why would the bunch do that.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 28 Aug 2014 21:32

Anujan wrote:
The Pakistani military is close to an agreement with the government in which the prime minister would relinquish control of security affairs and strategic foreign policy, government officials said, amid antigovernment protests that have paralyzed the capital.

A nearly two-week confrontation between the administration and demonstrators, which the government believes are backed by the military, has put Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif under pressure.

Government aides said the military has seized on Mr. Sharif's weakened status during the political crisis to strike a deal in which he would leave strategic policy areas—including relations with the U.S., Afghanistan and India—to be controlled by the armed forces.

The military is now seeking guarantees from the prime minister that he will follow through on the agreement, the aides said.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/pakistan ... 1409186231

chetak wrote:If anyone has access, could they post the full article, please. TIA

chetak Ji :

Aap Ki Seva Mein :

Pakistani Leader Sharif Nears Pact With Military

Army Presses Sharif to Relinquish Control of Security Affairs, Foreign Policy

ISLAMABAD—The Pakistani military is close to an agreement with the government in which the prime minister would relinquish control of security affairs and strategic foreign policy, government officials said, amid antigovernment protests that have paralyzed the capital.

A nearly two-week confrontation between the administration and demonstrators, which the government believes are backed by the military, has put Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif under pressure.

Government aides said the military has seized on Mr. Sharif's weakened status during the political crisis to strike a deal in which he would leave strategic policy areas—including relations with the U.S., Afghanistan and India—to be controlled by the armed forces.

The military is now seeking guarantees from the prime minister that he will follow through on the agreement, the aides said. Spokesmen for Mr. Sharif and several government ministries didn't return calls seeking comment. A Pakistani military spokesman didn't respond to requests to comment.

Since winning an outright majority in Parliament 16 months ago, Mr. Sharif has angered the military establishment with efforts to assert civilian control of the armed forces and decide on policies that were traditionally the domain of the military. The deal with the military would sharply curtail Mr. Sharif's powers, and cast doubt on his ability to make peace with Pakistan's rival, India, a top priority for the prime minister.

"If Nawaz Sharif survives, for the rest of his term, he will be a ceremonial prime minister—the world will not take him seriously," said Ayesha Siddiqa, an analyst based in Islamabad. "A soft coup has already taken place. The question is whether it will harden."

Thousands of protesters arrived on Aug. 15 in Islamabad, led by Imran Khan, a politician and former cricket star, and Muslim cleric Tahir ul Qadri, demanding the prime minister's resignation. The activists have slept on the streets of the capital since, protesters moving last week in front of the Parliament.

Protesters outside Parliament in Islamabad on Wednesday. Associated Press
The armed forces have run Pakistan for half its 67-year history, including a 1999 coup led by then-army chief Pervez Musharraf, which ended Mr. Sharif's last stint as prime minister. Even when not formally in power, the military has traditionally run foreign and internal security policies.

Government aides said the military has extracted a promise of freedom for Mr. Musharraf, who is being prosecuted by Mr. Sharif's government for treason. That charge, related to Mr. Musharraf's military rule following the 1999 coup, is another major source of tension between the administration and the armed forces. Mr. Musharraf denies the treason charge.

According to political and security officials, Mr. Sharif's government had secretly agreed to let Mr. Musharraf go abroad after a symbolic indictment over treason, which took place in March, but the government went back on the deal. That eroded trust between the military and Mr. Sharif.

Government aides said the administration was also willing to let the prime minister's brother, Shahbaz Sharif, step down as chief minister of Punjab province, the country's most heavily populated region.

Democracy was restored in Pakistan in 2008, when a government led by Asif Zardari of the Pakistan Peoples Party was elected and ruled until last year's elections. Mr. Zardari's government, a weak coalition, had also in its early days tried to push its own foreign and security policies, but it was soon beaten back.

"Nawaz Sharif thought that he was no Asif Zardari," said Murtaza Solangi, an analyst who had served as head of Radio Pakistan, the state broadcaster, under the Zardari government. "But the military decided that they'll make him an Asif Zardari."

Mr. Sharif's election victory had also raised hopes of a shift in policy toward Afghanistan and India. Mr. Sharif offered India a trade liberalization deal, and pledged to Kabul that he would end Pakistan's interference in Afghanistan.

But Mr. Sharif's stated aim of making peace with India and the pace at which he started to pursue this goal—seen in Washington as a historic opportunity— riled the military establishment. Mr. Sharif's policy of holding extended peace talks with Pakistani Taliban militants held up the army's plans for an operation against them, sowing further misgivings about the government.

A government aide said that the personal political ambitions of the protest leaders had been encouraged by a military that wanted to "cut Nawaz Sharif down to size."

"The script was never to topple the government but weaken it to the point where it was just left hanging, unable to move," said the aide.

Mr. Khan has called for a government of "technocrats" to be brought in now, but denied that he is acting on behalf of the military.

"I'm doing this for Pakistan, not for myself," Mr. Khan told supporters in a speech Wednesday. "To save our democracy, I'm not going from here without Nawaz Sharif's resignation."

Washington last week put out a statement of support for the administration, saying: "We support the constitutional and electoral process in Pakistan, which produced the Prime Minister of Nawaz Sharif."

—Qasim Nauman contributed to this article.

Write to Saeed Shah at saeed.shah@wsj.com

Cheers

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 28 Aug 2014 21:38

>>>>>
"policy areas—including relations with the U.S., Afghanistan and India—to be controlled by the armed forces."
<<<<<

So now PA of jihadis will directly wave begging bowl at USA?

It is really really sad

to see that paki democracy tamasha ran no more than a year before some PA frontmen made it clear that PA jihadis are in charge. The excruciating and short run of tamasha couldn't hide the nature of jihadis.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 28 Aug 2014 22:23

those pigs can drag their poor ass back to their hell hole

Retweeted by Harpreet
Vande Mataram ‏@nupur1210 4m

Pakistan goods expo postponed. Maybe cancelled Secular inshallah

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 28 Aug 2014 22:32

krishnan wrote:those pigs can drag their poor ass back to their hell hole
Retweeted by Harpreet
Vande Mataram ‏@nupur1210 4m

Pakistan goods expo postponed. Maybe cancelled Secular inshallah

This is a travesty. India would have had the privilege to take a peek at the Water Kit Car, and the Sitara, and the pindigenous drone technology, etc, etc, etc.

I am disappointed.

-M

member_28640 · Post by **member_28640** » 28 Aug 2014 22:33

partha wrote:Not sure about the exhibition but there is some Paki fashion show going on in Mumbai and Delhi.

Peehold, kushpoo al bakistaniyat

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Aug 2014 23:04

Mihaylo wrote: Pakistan goods expo postponed. Maybe cancelled Secular inshallah

JaChakhMaarullah!!
Local Low quality Vasleen did not suit the opening act.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Aug 2014 23:14

So now Badmash has become Shah Alam II with his writ running no where.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Aug 2014 23:24

ramana wrote:So now Badmash has become Shah Alam II with his writ running no where.

PM Sharif Nawaz, Raiwind Mey Hukum, Rawalpindi Mey Faryad.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 28 Aug 2014 23:38

3.5 are curiously silent about this other than odd farticles here and there.

A possibility is that Sharif was not doing something right according to 3.5 and the TSPA. The other possibility is that this is done as a pre-emptive step to stop the evolution of "Baki democracy". In either case, the soft coup cannot have happened without the blessings of 3.5, especially the propagators of democracy, the Baki army wont have done this.

I think that Baki army and 3.5 are afraid of "real democracy" happening in Bakistan. They need a pretty tight grip on baki balls, democracy would mean there is one more stakeholder in the game: the mango abdul, and by this time the mango abdul is rabidly anti-West, anti-Infidel barbarian. If an ISIS like group forms in Bakistan (only a matter of time), they would be anti-Saudi too. One can look at any "Sharif support rally" and one will see bearded rage boys and men jumping up and down.

If Sharif got any powerful, he would take control of the Jihadi apparatus and thus change the dynamics in Bakistan.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 28 Aug 2014 23:44

I WANNA HOLD YOUR HAND

Cheers

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Aug 2014 23:54

LokeshC wrote:3.5 are curiously silent about this other than odd farticles here and there.

A possibility is that Sharif was not doing something right according to 3.5 and the TSPA. The other possibility is that this is done as a pre-emptive step to stop the evolution of "Baki democracy". In either case, the soft coup cannot have happened without the blessings of 3.5, especially the propagators of democracy, the Baki army wont have done this.

I think that Baki army and 3.5 are afraid of "real democracy" happening in Bakistan. They need a pretty tight grip on baki balls, democracy would mean there is one more stakeholder in the game: the mango abdul, and by this time the mango abdul is rabidly anti-West, anti-Infidel barbarian. If an ISIS like group forms in Bakistan (only a matter of time), they would be anti-Saudi too. One can look at any "Sharif support rally" and one will see bearded rage boys and men jumping up and down.

If Sharif got any powerful, he would take control of the Jihadi apparatus and thus change the dynamics in Bakistan.

Badmash was getting too close to NaMo.