India-US Relations : News and Discussion

[pankajs]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/A ... 691583.ece
Another Hindu Temple Vandalised in US

LOS ANGELES: A Hindu temple in the US has been vandalised with several windows broken and the word "fear" painted on its wall, the second such incident in America's Washington state this month.

Vandals used bricks to break several windows and then painted the word "fear" on the wall of the Kent Hindu Temple late Thursday night.

Members who came to worship last night were greeted by shards of broken glass after vandals targeted the building.

Regular visitors at the temple said they were not sure if they were targeted for their faith or if neighbourhood teens were just causing trouble, local KOMO-TV reported.

Both the FBI and Kent police have been informed about the incident.

This is the second such incident in recent days in the Washington state.

In the earlier incident on February 15, unidentified miscreants sprayed swastika and painted "Get Out" on one of the walls of the Bothell Hindu Temple in the Seattle Metropolitan area.

Executive Director of the Washington state chapter of Council on American–Islamic Relations (CAIR) Arsalan Bukahari said many of these acts of aggression target smaller religious groups that some "bigots" think are Muslim.

"Because they choose to target certain places, we have a hunch that it might be biased motivated," Bukahari was quoted as saying by the television station.

The Kent temple does not have any security cameras and information on the vandals remains elusive.

[svinayak]

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/02/13/sex- ... 04354.html

Janet was forced into prostitution in Mexico by a boyfriend named Antonio in 1999; coyotes brought them across the border the following year, and they went to live with Antonio’s family in the borough of Queens in New York City, where she was put to work in brothels. Every couple of weeks, a van would take her and other women and girls—some as young as 12—to Charlotte, where she would spend a week or more, forced to have sex with strangers at a brothel by night and at farm labor camps by day.

The four women climbed out of the Camaro and went over to sheds near the cabins, where the workers kept their tools. The cement floors inside had crumbled through, exposing big dirt holes. While the women laid down rags, the men, filthy and reeking of sweat after spending all morning in the fields, quickly finished eating and formed lines outside the sheds, with as many as 50 men waiting for a woman. Ricardo stayed by the car, keeping lookout for police or anyone who might try to rob him and the women.

Sex trafficking flourishes in areas of male-dominated industries, such as fracking and oil boomtowns, military bases and, as a slew of recent court cases and victim accounts show, farm labor camps. The U.S. Department of State estimates that traffickers bring some 14,500 to 17,500 people into the United States each year.

“These organizations that victimize these women…transport them to where the business is,” says James T. Hayes Jr., special agent in charge of Homeland Security Investigations in New York. Traffickers set up shop in metropolitan areas—they often choose Queens for its central location along the Eastern corridor to cities north and south, plus its big clientele base in New York City—and send women to farms near and far, ranging from Vermont to Florida. Officials don’t know how many women are trapped in this city-to-farm sex pipeline, but experts say the number is growing every year.

[vishvak]

US pushes India to ink contentious defence pacts

India agreed in 2009 to the End-Use Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) for the defence equipment

Wonder if and when we can make this obsolete so as to not have such intrusive inspection after purchasing with hard cash.

US has once again stressed the need for India to ink the three military "foundational" pacts it has been pushing for over a decade now
..
Under the UPA regime, India had made it clear it did not want to ink the three pacts, which are Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA). But with the Modi government coming to power last year, the US has renewed its efforts on this front, as earlier reported by TOI.
..
after another round of the DTTI co-chaired by defence production secretary G Mohan Kumar and US undersecretary of defence Frank Kendall, US officials said if India did not sign the pacts, it would become "an issue" at some point in the future as the two countries worked on high-end defence technology.

Though Kendall stressed the pacts were not directly linked to DTTI, his colleague deputy assistant secretary (defence trade controls) Kenneth Handelman said they would become necessary in the long run. "DTTI has progressed in the absence of the foundational agreements...but at some point the foundational agreements are going to be an issue whether it's the LSA or CISMOA," he said.
..
The US says CISMOA and BECA are basically "technology enablers" which will allow it to transfer high-tech avionics and electronics to India. The LSA, modelled on the Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreements the US has inked with scores of countries, in turn, envisages the two militaries providing logistic support, refuelling and berthing facilities for each other's warships and aircraft on a barter or an equal-value exchange basis.

The US has earlier given "non-papers" - informal discussion papers -- on the pacts to the UPA government but nothing came out of them, even though India agreed in 2009 to the End-Use Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) for the defence equipment it was buying from America.
..

These "foundation pacts" are but an issues for later on only, and specific to USA - which is clearly stated in no uncertain terms. For example, how much will be risk/advantage to offering berthing & refueling facilities to a naval superpower USA, when USA already has access to say Bay of Bengal (as US task force 74 from 7th fleet clearly demonstrated). Or for that matter Diego Garcia facility in the India ocean. So why do we need such pacts in the first place.

In fact, won't it be a disadvantage to not protest illegal occupation of Diego Garcia, by assorted heart bleeders, as nothing but colonial hangover?

Wonder if our military planners will take this as red signal when 'diversifying' sources of military hardware. Offer of mutual birthing/refueling facility will similarly make the IN dependent on naval superpower USA, for the same. The reverse is not likely.

[putnanja]

... I'm in no way denying that it was an act of hostility. To claim that it meant war is fiction. They were in no position to escalate to a war.

Just a play of words. Thats like threatening someone with a gun, and then later saying "I never meant to shoot".

And you are using the blood telegram, an action of one individual to somehow say that the entire US govt was like that. The fact that the then US consul was totally ignored, and even now its just a footnote of history and doesn't rank among major genocides is precisely because of US govt.

[Melwyn]

Another Hindu Temple Vandalised in the United States

Ok so this is a hate crime and Hindus are not making a hue and cry about it.

Now compare this to when 3 churches were burgled in Delhi, how that became a Human Rights issue and forced action from PM.

LOS ANGELES: A Hindu temple in the US has been vandalised with several windows broken and the word "fear" painted on its wall, the second such incident in America's Washington state this month.

Vandals used bricks to break several windows and then painted the word "fear" on the wall of the Kent Hindu Temple on Thursday night.

Members who came to worship last night were greeted by shards of broken glass after vandals targeted the building.

[Sagar G]

Bible thumping gora morons can't even do vandalism properly. In the previous case they painted Swastika on temple wall. A sign which is considered sacred in Hinduism and now painted "fear" on wall and broke some window glass. "Fear" what ??? WTF does this even mean ??? Some typical illiterate goras trying to play nazis and failing even to do that properly. Basically Murica of today

[Shreeman]

^^ This is actually a baki lead initiative. They cant pick on jews (first choice) in the US, so hindus come next.

[KrishnaK]

Look, you're clearly tying yourself into knots here. First you confused GDP and trade balance. Then you demonstrated you don't even know what the trade balance is. Then you ascribe any sort of qualitative basis for a trade balance in either direction. Nobody ever associated a positive or negative trade balance between two nations as any sort of 'they like us' or 'they hate us' qualitative position. If you really wish to do that, I've an exercise for you: we run an official trade surplus and an equally large or larger unofficial surplus (via UAE trade) with TSP. It's increased from about $3 billion total surplus a year to over $6 billion now. Do they like us or hate us ? Why ? When you're done, I'll give you trade balance data against several other nations so you can apply qualitative 'like' or 'dislike' views of each. Then finally I'll ask you to resolve all those positions mutually. See where this is going ? '50% of GDP/trade balance/whatever' with the US means nothing as far as foreign policy dynamics go. The Chinese are busy using their substantial surpluses to build their own armament base with the explicit goal of kicking the US out of its East Asian sphere of influence, and subjugating Japan.

I concede your point that assigning qualitative 'like'/'dislike' to balance of trade makes no sense. I should've argued just trade instead. The US has consistently and clearly articulated countries it sees as a threat and has consistently used economic sanctions and withholding access to the American market as a foreign policy instrument. Here are some examples On top, it has also used every power at its disposal to force other countries to follow that route, whether it be Iran or Russia today or even India in 1998.

But the worst sanctions proposals are just beginning to surface in Congress. Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., for example, has submitted an amendment to a defense bill that would impose tariffs of up to 90% on more than $1.8 billion in annual textile imports from India.

That it would not have made much of a difference is a different story.

The only divergence seems to be China. Even there it maintains an arms embargo and forces europe to stick to it too. If ever a shooting match starts in East Asia, I have very little doubt China's trade with the US will be affected immediately. Maybe trade is just one tool to get China to play nice.

I had brought up the trade as only one of the points in my argument that the US has never had any long term policy of isolating or containing India or even that it's wary of India's rise - at least to this point. I concede to your point, which is reasonable in and by itself, there are quite a few others. The one that I have repeatedly tried to highlight is very simple - there is no documentation of the US having considered/communicated/socialized that. There are in the cases of the Cold War, North Korea, Iran, Russia or even China today. There is a very clear record of the US articulating it's position and then trying to get others to follow it. Why should it be different solely in the case of India ?

Then there's the aid, which I mention not to tom tom the US, but the fact that we have continued to convince the US to provide aid in spite of publicly criticizing it's actions. Just does not come across as the act of a country that's not just hostile to India's rise but it's very religious and cultural outlook.

Direct U.S. aid from 1946 to 1996 amounted to nearly $50 billion

from Two Cheers for India Sanctions

Trying to back up claims like

India's plurality could not sit with the abrahamic world view.

The State Department has historically tried to create countries inside India where non existed.

The US still sees Pak as a bulwark against the "Soviets",a force to keep India under control

The US is using christian missionaries to stir up trouble in India, in particular at Kudankulam (not an exact copy/paste quote)

or trying to prove that some malevolence exists where there's simply no proof of any does come across as the work of a conspiracy theorist.

There's no need to read tea leaves grasp of the larger geo strategic picture or wtfe, information is available out in the open.

[Mort Walker]

KrishnaK,

US policy on India has until recently been governed by cold war policies. Not by any humanitarian or philanthropic ideals. During the 1940s and until the 1970s, the US relied on British advice (from intelligence and Britain's India experience) before concluding final policy regarding India. The Atlantic Charter established by the US and Britain in 1941 proclaimed all people had a right to self-determination, but that policy did not extend to the British colonies including India. The US did not force Churchill to grant India independence, so the idea of democracy rang hollow to the millions who died in the Bengal famine of 1941-1944. It is one of the major reasons why MKG and the Congress Party despised FDR.

There are some real zingers about US policy toward India:

1. 1965. The US deliberately looked the other way when Pakistan launched Operation Gibraltar. India trusted the US and asked the US military attache in Delhi to see Pakistani Patton and Sherman tanks amassed at the border. The attache responded by saying their turrets are pointing in the opposite direction. At the end of 1965 War, the US temporarily suspended PL-480 aid to Pakistan.
2. 1971. I think we already know about that one, but one little important fact was that Nixon seriously considered using nuclear weapons against India.
3. 1978. The US under Jimmy Carter implemented the Nuclear Suppliers Group policy. This basically created sanctions on any item considered dual-use. This one really hurt India in terms of industrial development.
4. 1981. At this point it was clear Gen. Zia was seeking nuclear weapons and the Reagan administration deliberately looked the other way. There even veiled threats against India to not do what Israel had done in Osirik, Iraq. Menachem Begin offered IG assistance in doing just that.
5. 1984. The US knew the Khalistani movement was intent on killing high level elected Indian government officials and looked the other way on Khalistani organization terrorist operations. IG was assassinated 31 Oct 1984.
6. 1993. This has already been covered.

[vishvak]

The 5th point above is important reminder to see a nature of European HR orgs too who seem to exclaim an exclusive rights to tomtom human rights as what is seem apt enough as per definitions. Before Bangladesh liberation war, the Americans were on diplomatic offensive in UN when genocide of Hindus was ongoing in East Pakistan. The blood telegram came a month after genocide began as operation searchlight in March 1971, and it took another Indo-pak war to put and end to the genocide on December 16, 1971. The intimidation of nuclear threat - on december 11 - started just as pakis were about to lose war and surrender to end the genocide - and not earlier when the genocide was ongoing.

What we read on the other hand is that Indira Gandhi was a strong lady in the cabinet, etc. However correct, such lectures, and other excuses, are not any way sufficient to explain behavior of the civilized - be it diplomatic offensive against India when genocide was ongoing by Islamists OR unleashing nuclear threat just when the genocide was about to be ended with efforts from the Indian Army.

[Cosmo_R]

The Nixon tapes provide an insight into the US' posture and actions in 1971

http://nixontapes.org/india-pakistan.html

[Arjun]

There are in the cases of the Cold War, North Korea, Iran, Russia or even China today. There is a very clear record of the US articulating it's position and then trying to get others to follow it. Why should it be different solely in the case of India ?

Because there is no hope of building up a moral case against India (unlike the others listed, that have either attacked other countries or are not democracies). Not that there is any lack of interest groups in the US that have tried their very best to put together spurious cases - including digging for skeletons in Gujarat, "slavery" cases against Indian consuls, "religious freedom" indictments and other such idiocy.

A 'moral high ground' posture in public dealings with India is not easy - and the US know this. I am not necessarily saying there is any strong strategic case for the US to be pursuing a covert "Keep India down" policy either - but all depends on which interest groups may have upper hand on the SD at any point in time. Both fringes of the US political spectrum (evangelicals and extreme liberals) are capable of being hare- brained enough to pursue fairly toxic agendas from an India POV.

[arshyam]

Since you are asking us to broaden our rather narrow horizons and share factoids, here's a source for you: http://indiafacts.co.in/religious-crusades-cia/. Here the same SD you sort of held above blame is shown to be playing dirty games along with the US intel agencies. So SD and CIA are the rogue guys here then, not the political executive.

This is precisely what one would call a conspiracy theory.

After the creation of the CIA , Christian missionaries played a very important role in destabilizing various countries and in carrying out espionage activities on behalf of the CIA. The most recent high profile example of the US using religious missionaries as Trojan horses to cause disturbances in India was in the case of the agitation against the Kudankulam nuclear power plant. This agitation came after a cable to the CIA from the US Consulate in Mumbai (Wikileaks cable 06MUMBAI1803_a) informed the agency that “we feel that the USG must move forward to enable our companies to compete in the next stage of India’s nuclear future. Otherwise we may have to watch bitterly as third countries become the first to benefit commercially from the environment that our diplomacy has created.”

That the CIA might have used christian missionaries could well be true. Where is the connection from that to

The most recent high profile example of the US using religious missionaries as Trojan horses to cause disturbances in India was in the case of the agitation against the Kudankulam nuclear power plant.

Incidentally the wikileaks cable has nothing to do with the Christian missionaries being used as Trojan horses. That article's claim to connection between the CIA using christian missionaries are spies to the agitation against the Kudankulam power plant is the timing of the cable.

Do all the rolling you want, but the Wikileaks cable is clear enough. Coincidentally the protests happened at both Kudankulam (Russian origin) and Jaitapur (French origin). The rest of the article talks about CIA's connections with church orgs, quoting US sources like Chicago Tribune, Rolling Stone, and other public records from the US only. As for Wikileaks, the Obama admin gave it a lot of credibility trying to go after Assange/Snowden for leaking the cables, so one cannot dismiss that easily. Finally, all the sources quoted by this article and Wikileaks are too widely dispersed to be dismissed as a 'conspiracy theory'. Believe what you want.

And, the connection to Kudankulam:

PMANE to sue PMO over comments linking stir to foreign funding - Hindustan Times

The People's Movement Against Nuclear Energy, leading the protest against the Koodankulam Nuclear Power Plant, today threatened to sue the Prime Minister's Office for linking the stir to foreign funding.
<snip>
The Prime Minister in an interview to the 'Science' journal had criticised NGOs that received support from abroad for leading protests against the Plant.

Manmohan criticises NGOs for protests in Kudankulam - The Hindu

But controversies had arisen. “There are NGOs, often funded from the United States and the Scandinavian countries, which are not fully appreciative of the development challenges that our country faces.”

Then, referring to the protests at Kudankulam, he said: “the atomic energy programme has got into difficulties because these NGOs, mostly I think based in the United States, don't appreciate need for our country to increase the energy supply.”

The suing never really happened. And you are free to dismiss the Indian PM's public statement as another conspiracy theory.

What exactly is your point ? The page claims that there is a lot of social conflict in India and that is is caused by

a myriad of issues including cultural and communal identity, religionization and minoritization, self-determination, and economic empowerment .

and that it detracts from a pluralistic democracy. What's rogue in this ?

You seemed to make a case saying Nixon and Kissinger were rogue in '71, against the Congress and SD. That's a standard template when defending any US action, 'that someone went rogue, the US is not to blame'. I am merely pointing out how this approach can be used by different 'rogue' elements in the US establishment, which curiously, are toeing a single line of furthering US interests and in India's case, putting roadblocks/opposition/interference.

Again, so? Russia isn't interested in changing boundaries as well, yet see the sanctions against them over the Ukraine issue.

This must take the cake as the stupidest argument i've ever heard. Russia did change the borders w.r.t. Ukraine. You might be supportive of that, but to claim it did not - Thank you for making my day.

Of course, if you want to assign the US a role in policing boundaries around the world, even when they are not related to the US' immediate security, you would call it what you did, and make your day (whatever that means, only Eastwood would know). This is OT, but let me state one line for the record: Russia has legitimate interests in Ukraine, which is a border state for her, and may be involved there. Pray tell me, what interests does the US have here? Last I checked, Ukraine is quite far from the US, and Russia is doing nothing in Canada/Mexico borders.

The reason I brought up Russia/Ukraine in the first place is that it is an example of the US interfering in places far away from itself for one reason or the other. The parallels between the US intervention in Ukraine now and the intervention in Pakistan in '71 are striking - no legitimate threat to itself, yet send arms shipments and threaten to attack India, etc. US policy hasn't changed a whit, in spite of whatever spin you may want to give.

But defending the right of the US to interfere where border changes happen shows your assignation of some globocop role to the US. Sorry, but many others around the world don't agree with that. And before you question me on how I assumed that, let me quote your previous post again (below) that seems to suggest the US doesn't interfere in India because India is not interested in changing boundaries, which implies that the US can legitimately interfere where boundaries are sought to be changed.

Wanting to contain a country with a per capita of 1600 today, which incidentally gets most of the 50+% of it's GDP from the same country is only slightly less absurd. Especially so, when India has evinced no interest in changing boundaries, claiming parts of the world because it was vaguely indian a 1000 years ago or even picking up fights anywhere based on past grievances.

@@Cosmo_R ji, thanks for clarifying about the ground situation in the US in '71, and how the task force commander was unhappy, etc. As you correctly said, it is history for most of us, including me. But as you yourself say in your subsequent post - the military commander would have had to follow orders if/when given, and Nixon did contemplate striking us. And as someone pointed out, this was much after the concert for B'desh you mentioned. Clearly shows that the USG will take military actions even if they are unpopular on the ground, like in Vietnam. So all that matters to India regarding the history of '71 is - the Enterprise task force was ordered to sail into BoB, and be ready for whatever orders come later. That it did. The rest about US ground opinion back then, etc. does not matter. And going by KrishnaK's posts, the US will do so again if we seek to change any borders.

[sanjaykumar]

American public opinion? What is it worth to the administration?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... ir-attacks


Exhausted and demoralised, the family fled to Vietnam in 1969, embarking on a month-long walk only four days after Dalaseng’s wife had given birth to her second baby. The landscape around them was apocalyptic. “The bombs had destroyed everything,” he remembered. “There were no more animals or villages.”



The most commonly used ordnance by the Americans were cluster bombs, dropped in casings designed to open in mid-air and scatter hundreds of munitions over several hectares. The bombs were designed to explode on impact, lighting up the hills with thousands of simultaneous, deadly explosions. The bombardments were so intense (an average of one every eight minutes, for nine years) that farmers resorted to tending their fields at night. Cooking was severely restricted, because the smoke would attract the aircraft.

---------------------


For a pleasant graphic, see http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ombing-uxo

[Shreeman]

This is the test for having a "relationship" with united states -- http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder ... lationship

compare with Boehners snub to Modi, and the rest.

Until such time as a Modi takes on "the voice of all hindu, skih, etc.. of indian descent" and decides to wander in on a saturday to give any speech as he wants, in a dhoti and chappals, there is no relationship. There is only quiet time between sanctions and punishments. During this time your adversaries are being trained.

[Hari Seldon]

US pushes India to ink contentious defence pacts

Unkil pushing anything has me wary. Hope years of chai-biskoot discussions happen before we officially deign to consider doing anything like this.

[KrishnaK]

There are in the cases of the Cold War, North Korea, Iran, Russia or even China today. There is a very clear record of the US articulating it's position and then trying to get others to follow it. Why should it be different solely in the case of India ?

Because there is no hope of building up a moral case against India (unlike the others listed, that have either attacked other countries or are not democracies). Not that there is any lack of interest groups in the US that have tried their very best to put together spurious cases - including digging for skeletons in Gujarat, "slavery" cases against Indian consuls, "religious freedom" indictments and other such idiocy.

I very much agree with you. Having a political system that's open and transparent to all parties in India has the added benefit that US or anyone else for that matter cannot build a case based on lies. Interest groups have never managed to be more than pin-pricks. Not having other areas of shared interests and shared stakes in each other's well being meant they could derail whatever was going on.

Both fringes of the US political spectrum (evangelicals and extreme liberals) are capable of being hare- brained enough to pursue fairly toxic agendas from an India POV.

True.

[RoyG]

Two strategic items from the budget which aren't getting much attention are the gold deposit scheme and the MUNDRA Bank. Both are going to be huge game changers. I think the government will be able to collect 2000-2500 tons of gold over the decade. We should demand our foreign held reserves be shipped back and also construct a secure vault. Moreover, the gold that is being held in the temple should also be confiscated and held within a secure vault. Already it is slowly being stolen. Overall by the end of the decade, I see GoI at the end of 2025 sitting on a healthy 3000-3500 tons including the foreign held reserves.

[chetak]

Two strategic items from the budget which aren't getting much attention are the gold deposit scheme and the MUNDRA Bank. Both are going to be huge game changers. I think the government will be able to collect 2000-2500 tons of gold over the decade. We should demand our foreign held reserves be shipped back and also construct a secure vault. Moreover, the gold that is being held in the temple should also be confiscated and held within a secure vault. Already it is slowly being stolen. Overall by the end of the decade, I see GoI at the end of 2025 sitting on a healthy 3000-3500 tons including the foreign held reserves.

confiscated??

[chetak]

US pushes India to ink contentious defence pacts

Unkil pushing anything has me wary. Hope years of chai-biskoot discussions happen before we officially deign to consider doing anything like this.

When you sup with the devil, you need a long spoon.

They had misread the BJP thinking that NaMo will sign every piece of trash and toilet paper that they would condescend to place before him and his govt, orgasming over his majority in the LS.

keep these f@(kers as far away as possible. No US govt will be of any good to us.

[vishvak]

Two strategic items from the budget which aren't getting much attention are the gold deposit scheme and the MUNDRA Bank. Both are going to be huge game changers. I think the government will be able to collect 2000-2500 tons of gold over the decade. We should demand our foreign held reserves be shipped back and also construct a secure vault. Moreover, the gold that is being held in the temple should also be confiscated and held within a secure vault. Already it is slowly being stolen. Overall by the end of the decade, I see GoI at the end of 2025 sitting on a healthy 3000-3500 tons including the foreign held reserves.

confiscated??

Didn't USA Prez. lecture about secularism when a few churches were vandalized just before elections?

Confiscation of temple wealth is not something considered civilized therefore. Not sure how it works in USA, though.

In fact, we need to set up temple defense committees for all temples, as even in Delhi hundreds of cases of loot were reported just last year.

If a temple is attacked in USA, then we must request USA to grant VISA for some members of temple defense committees from India - so that enough protection can be provided till normalcy returns.

[RoyG]

Temple treasure can be designated as archaeological find and should be protected in a vault. It's not safe in the temple.

[vishvak]

And OT here. By the way, the wealth of temple belongs to deity. No need to give it colonial/modern/post-modern labels.

[RoyG]

Belongs to deity? It's already being stolen. Go ahead and keep it there and let the colonial/modern/post modern types run away with it.

[Skanda]

Preet Bharara is an entertaining speaker, but he goes too far.

Slate, IMHO, is a leftist website. Interesting, that they have put out this article.

[Suraj]

This is the India-US thread. Please stop derailing it with talk about temple gold.

I concede your point that assigning qualitative 'like'/'dislike' to balance of trade makes no sense. I should've argued just trade instead. The US has consistently and clearly articulated countries it sees as a threat and has consistently used economic sanctions and withholding access to the American market as a foreign policy instrument.

Do you know what Super 301 and Special 301 are ? Those are unilateral trade sanctioning regimes that the US used to apply to sanction nations ? They still use it, to the extent the WTO lets them do so unilaterally. Check out the Special 301 country list. India has never been downgraded to WL or lower status - it has always been a PWL country. Super 301 rules were used to armtwist India through the 1980s and 1990s, only being curtailed when it became apparent that the GATT Uruguay Round would be impacted and it would delay the creation of the WTO. Far from being benign in its trade dealings with India, the US has a long history of belligerence. It didn't bite so much simply because we traded very little with the outside world for a long time. As late as 2000, our total exports were $35 billion. Our current annual exports are 10x that. We gained a lot once the US could no longer unilaterally impose their trade sanctions on us thanks to WTO.

The entire basis of your argument is wrong, whether you use trade, GDP or any other economic metric.

[Kashi]

Young Sikh Boy Racially Abused in US, Video Goes Viral

[vishvak]

Young Sikh Boy Racially Abused in US, Video Goes Viral

I hope we are not losing our humane side one bit by ignoring this, which is even caught on video. I feel for the kid, who is racially bullied by rest of the kids who are not aware that Sikhism has nothing to do with what they label as terrorism. In fact, Sikhis and other Hindus have been attacked at many different times and places for more than a thousand years by numerous kinds of of barbarian hordes. It is a matter of introspection, and intrigue even more, how can this happen in USA - the most powerful and already civilized country for hundreds of years - where kids are not aware of such basic information. Hopefully assorted heartbleeders will come out with candles, and there will be some statement made by politicians, of course, and than efforts are still needed for necessary changes in school syllabus so as to make kids aware of it.

[TSJones]

This is the India-US thread. Please stop derailing it with talk about temple gold.

I concede your point that assigning qualitative 'like'/'dislike' to balance of trade makes no sense. I should've argued just trade instead. The US has consistently and clearly articulated countries it sees as a threat and has consistently used economic sanctions and withholding access to the American market as a foreign policy instrument.

Do you know what Super 301 and Special 301 are ? Those are unilateral trade sanctioning regimes that the US used to apply to sanction nations ? They still use it, to the extent the WTO lets them do so unilaterally. Check out the Special 301 country list. India has never been downgraded to WL or lower status - it has always been a PWL country. Super 301 rules were used to armtwist India through the 1980s and 1990s, only being curtailed when it became apparent that the GATT Uruguay Round would be impacted and it would delay the creation of the WTO. Far from being benign in its trade dealings with India, the US has a long history of belligerence. It didn't bite so much simply because we traded very little with the outside world for a long time. As late as 2000, our total exports were $35 billion. Our current annual exports are 10x that. We gained a lot once the US could no longer unilaterally impose their trade sanctions on us thanks to WTO.

The entire basis of your argument is wrong, whether you use trade, GDP or any other economic metric.

So what? India ran a $23 billion trade surplus with the US in 2014. Probably the largest with any of its trading partners. It has ran a trade surplus with the US for many years with only a few exceptions. Here are figures going back to 1985. It has nothing to do with trade sanctions and everything to do with India struggling in the thralls of socialism.

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5330.html

[UlanBatori]

Hmm! Paco not getting enough red meat in Carcass, to return

There goes my plan to fly south of the Equator.

[SBajwa]

5 After 9/11 my own son (who use to wear patka at that time) who was 6 at that time was told by some other kid that "You are the same people who blew up the Twin towers" . I printed over 500 pages (colored) of flyer explaining that Sikhism has nothing to do with Islam and made sure that each kid in the primary school gets that flyer to take home and show it to their parents.

[Madhusudhan]

That is one smart & brave kid. He will do well in life. His tormentors will be having domestic fights in their double wide with their alcoholic and meth-head partners 15 years from now.

[JE Menon]

^^Please let's not fall into the same rut with comments like "tormentors will be having domestic fights in their double wide with their alcoholic and meth-head partners 15 years from now."

[Suraj]

So what? India ran a $23 billion trade surplus with the US in 2014. Probably the largest with any of its trading partners. It has ran a trade surplus with the US for many years with only a few exceptions. Here are figures going back to 1985. It has nothing to do with trade sanctions and everything to do with India struggling in the thralls of socialism.
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5330.html

"So what" ? Your argument has no logical connect within. Whether or not we run a trade surplus is just numbers, nothing more, nothing less. Not some benevolent offering from you, nor something we're stealing from you.

"Struggling with the thralls of socialism" didn't stop the US from continuously resorting to economic terrorism via the 301 laws, and data shows we were among the worst affected by it. A reading of economic history shows that they only calmed down when they realized their actions could impact the GATT to WTO transition, that they were championing. Thankfully, the WTO did not become just an uber-sanctioning entity the US originally hoped to run it as, and many nations prospered as a result, most prominently the PRC.

[svinayak]

when they realized their actions could impact the GATT to WTO transition, that they were championing. Thankfully, the WTO did not become just an uber-sanctioning entity the US originally hoped to run it as, and many nations prospered as a result, most prominently the PRC.

The main strategy was to thwart India economically as long as possible before admitting PRC into WTO and give PRC a head start in global trading system as market economy status. PRC gained at the expense of India with global trading regimes.They made sure that India was not admitted to any large trading blocs such as APEC, transpacific trading and global supply chain. Indian elites did not understand the strategy for a long time.

[Vayutuvan]

In fact India supported China's entry into WTO.

svinayak: You seem to be saying hat was wrong. That is a puzzle then as to why did India support China to come in and return we got blocked out.

[svinayak]

In fact India supported China's entry into WTO.

svinayak: You seem to be saying hat was wrong. That is a puzzle then as to why did India support China to come in and return we got blocked out.

I wanted somebody to ask that question. I have been doing research on this for more than 10 years

This is grand strategy around the world from 1960. India was promised access and other economic benefit if India helps in supporting the fight against the communism. INC may have been told to keep the reforms subdued until the fall of the communism and beginning of the global trading system. INC and Indian elites may have been betrayed somewhere in the last 25 years resulting in India falling behind and without sufficient reforms and trading bloc support.
Some of these questions are asked in this book
India Unbound: The Social and Economic Revolution from Independence to the Global Information Age
by Gurcharan Das (Author)

[darshan]

Last weekend I ran into a group of desi law students from a major law university. This group is presently helping out ACLU in regards to investigating racial targeting of people from subcontinent under the charges of shoplifting or similar. Their focus area is well to do local communities where law enforcement is dominated by majority white folks comprising of police officers, lawyers, judges, etc. This was started in a community in one of the southern states and has quickly picked up to other places similar to this. These local communities under so called "zero tolerance" against shoplifting have given local law enforcement powers to not complete any proper investigation and pick up people accused of shoplifting and put them in jail. All cop is required to do is take local business's word that they will send in evidence to prove the case. The person being picked up is usually not asked anything and is likely not that versed in English and civil rights. Eventually this arrest results in lot of money being spent on lawyer, bail, etc. to deal with the charges. Onus is on the person being picked up to get out of the jail, request evidence, and go to the local court. It is also common that a local security guy at a shopping place is friends with cops in the community, a former cop, etc. This abuse is working out perfectly as practically everyone from desi community, due to social stigma and direct effect on potential employment etc., opts for pleading guilty, pay obscene amount of court fees, and expurgation of the record. Due to records being sealed and not available it becomes practically impossible to establish any pattern for people like ACLU. Please advise anyone that you know of that may have gone through this ordeal to voluntarily contact ACLU to help establish them a pattern and eventually help bring in lawsuit.

P.S.: apology in advance as this may not be a correct place to post.

[ramana]

I guess we need to send money to ACLU for their good work. Also after DOJ report on abuses iN Ferguson, it would be a good thing if PDs all over the country think about their own modus operandi and introspect if they have been equally misbehaving.

[chetak]

In fact India supported China's entry into WTO.

svinayak: You seem to be saying hat was wrong. That is a puzzle then as to why did India support China to come in and return we got blocked out.

I wanted somebody to ask that question. I have been doing research on this for more than 10 years

This is grand strategy around the world from 1960. India was promised access and other economic benefit if India helps in supporting the fight against the communism. INC may have been told to keep the reforms subdued until the fall of the communism and beginning of the global trading system. INC and Indian elites may have been betrayed somewhere in the last 25 years resulting in India falling behind and without sufficient reforms and trading bloc support.
Some of these questions are asked in this book
India Unbound: The Social and Economic Revolution from Independence to the Global Information Age
by Gurcharan Das (Author)

Around this time the US made a determined bid for vizag port. They wanted to develop it as per their specs and requirements of their navy. "democratic and non aligned India" of course refused.

Had this actually come about, the gary powers flight may very well have taken of from vizag.