Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2014 04:41

The pictures are getting cuter every day that passes with zero evidence.

sadhana · Post by **sadhana** » 27 Mar 2014 05:02

The 8.11 am ping passes through that white patch of sea between Vietnam and Brunei/east half of Malaysia and the Java Sea. What if the plane kept going east and west and ended up in the sea there? Inmarsat jawab do.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 27 Mar 2014 05:34

The reason they're not looking at the intersects of the 8:11 arc running through SE Asia is that they're assuming the plane would have been visible on the surfeit of civilian and military radars operating over the South China Sea if that had been the case.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 27 Mar 2014 05:48

Has the plane in fact proceeded to Beijing? Is there a reason for Cheen to make the plane to look like it has disappeared accidentally or otherwise and take it to Beijing? The short segment from the point marked "last radar contact" to rejoin the scheduled flight is a matter of an hour or so.

habal · Post by **habal** » 27 Mar 2014 07:48

Diego Garcia

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Diego-Ga ... 4902443795

No scheduled flights for 72 hours from March 8
https://twitter.com/jeanettekramer/stat ... 56/photo/1

possible fire suppression device washes up ashore at Maldives beach

http://www.maldivesfinest.com/mh370-evidence

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Mar 2014 08:08

The reticence of the Malaysian authorities to release the cargo manifest so many days after the disappearance of the MH flight,speaks volumes. What are they hiding? It is quite possible that the bottles found in the Maldives are from the MH flight,could've bee removed from the aircraft at DG and "found" in the atolls.The dribbles of info/sat pics of debris in the south IOR looks like the searchers are being led on like a donkey with a carrot dangling in front of its nose!

habal · Post by **habal** » 27 Mar 2014 08:15

Malaysian govt is quite determined to not have to do anything with the Maldives during this 'search'. Anyways if the plane indeed landed up in Maldives or DG, it is quite scary how many govts have suppressed radar info. The greatest of them all govts, has even mentioned that they switch off the radars at night.

What is indeed scary is the fact then staring at your face, as to how many govts in the flight path are indeed compromised enough to lie point blank about everything. A commercial airline went missing .. these guys could care less. I am even beginning to think that these are the first set pieces being moved into place for some big event in future.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 27 Mar 2014 08:18

When I want my fill of bat $h__T crazy, this thread and the Ukraine one never disappoint. Keep 'em coming.

Occam's razor apparently never reached this thread.

shanth · Post by **shanth** » 27 Mar 2014 08:22

Harpal Bector wrote: These conspiracy theories don't add up.

Agree

Harpal Bector wrote: I don't know how much to trust the Doppler shift data as I don't know what the stability of the oscillator on the plane is. The plane does not passively reflect the ping, it actively re-transmits it. That puts the entire shift analysis in question.

I have worked on Sat modems before, including those that talk to Inmarsat satellites. The modem on the airplane will receive the signal from the satellite and use it to remove its own oscillator drift, just like your cell phone does right now. Only thing left is doppler due to speed. No magic here, standard stuff

-S

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Mar 2014 08:29

Anant wrote:When I want my fill of bat $h__T crazy, this thread and the Ukraine one never disappoint. Keep 'em coming.
Occam's razor apparently never reached this thread.

The "simplest" theory that accounts for everything is a pilot gone cuckoo.

E.g., "if the pilot wanted to commit suicide with the plane, why didn't he just crash it early on in the flight?" Answer - because the pilot was crazy.

Anything that is not physically impossible can be explained by such a theory.

Therefore, "the pilot went crazy" is the theory of last resort.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 27 Mar 2014 08:36

A_Gupta,

I would agree with you. But with some of the "news" sources pulled by Philip and others, one of which is some random woman's personal twitter account, we are rapidly headed to the Zeta Reticuli alien hijacking territory. This forum used to be a good sounding board for cogent ideas. Nowadays, the wheels have come off and it has entered a bizarre realm of its own. Most pilots I've personally spoken to, many of whom are test pilots at a major avionics firm, think there was a fire in the cabin or cargo hold which incapacitated the pilots and then the plane flew on a more or less fixed heading till it ran out of fuel and crashed. However, that doesn't sound sexy and it sure as hell ain't crazy. And to all of the CT folks, we'll get wreckage. Believe it or not it's a pain in the backside to search a roiling ocean.

habal · Post by **habal** » 27 Mar 2014 08:46

Anant wrote:A_Gupta,

I would agree with you. But with some of the "news" sources pulled by Philip and others, one of which is some random woman's personal twitter account, we are rapidly headed to the Zeta Reticuli alien hijacking territory. This forum used to be a good sounding board for cogent ideas. Nowadays, the wheels have come off and it has entered a bizarre realm of its own. Most pilots I've personally spoken to, many of whom are test pilots at a major avionics firm, think there was a fire in the cabin or cargo hold which incapacitated the pilots and then the plane flew on a more or less fixed heading till it ran out of fuel and crashed. However, that doesn't sound sexy and it sure as hell ain't crazy. And to all of the CT folks, we'll get wreckage. Believe it or not it's a pain in the backside to search a roiling ocean.

It was an 'intelligent fire' that first burnt out the acars and the switched off the transponder, so that it could go about it's job without interference.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 27 Mar 2014 08:58

Habal,

If we are going to float bizzaro theories then how do you know a fire didn't burn the cables that provide electrical power to ACARS, TCAS and the transponder while not effecting other avionics. Swiss Air pilots frittered around for hours as systems kept burning sequentially till they had no control of the plane. The fire didn't render their aircraft non-airworthy all at once. Or equally plausibly, the 777 is parked here in my backyard on blocks and my pizza bills to feed these 200+ passengers is exorbitant.

habal · Post by **habal** » 27 Mar 2014 09:04

Nobody would have disputed the accident or decompression/fire theories in case of these two events not taking place simultaneously. Only a flight engineer can disable acars inflight, AFAIK, there is always 1 FE always aboard a commercial airline, now there is no flight engineer here that is being shown up as guilty. So it has to be ground crew, and there is no hint towards that either by the Malaysians.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 27 Mar 2014 09:11

I think that theory on the plane being lost in the south IOR deep ocean was posted on BRF within 48 hours IIRC. Also posted was the idea that plane would probably never be found as it is a big deep ocean. Personally I have thought all the rest was folks amusing themselves with CT's. No one was taking the BRF posts seriously. Just folks amusing themselves.

Particularly the yakk herding theories of deep interior Central Asia. That pulsating hub of technology.

member_28502 · Post by **member_28502** » 27 Mar 2014 09:36

Intermediate frequency transformers they used to call it in good old days

member_28502 · Post by **member_28502** » 27 Mar 2014 09:50

saip wrote:Anyone know if the cabin door can be opened from outside? I know it defeats the very purpose of reinforcing the door against terrorists.

Halle Berry did
Executive Decision it was

vina · Post by **vina** » 27 Mar 2014 11:59

shanth wrote:I have worked on Sat modems before, including those that talk to Inmarsat satellites. The modem on the airplane will receive the signal from the satellite and use it to remove its own oscillator drift, just like your cell phone does right now. Only thing left is doppler due to speed. No magic here, standard stuff

Great ! Can you take a few minutes here to explain how it actually works ? It will be nice to have a good understanding of it.How does the cellphone actually work ? If you are using the cellphone while driving a car, how does the cellphone handle the doppler shift that gets induced because of it's own motion wrt to the tower and how does the tower handle the doppler shift from the handset's motion when it is receiving ?

I guess the initial protocol when a call is connected will be a handshake that includes details such as I (the tower) will be transmitting at freq X, while the handset sends back at another channel at freq Y sort of thing ? I suppose the inmarsat will be something similar ?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Mar 2014 12:43

habal wrote:Only a flight engineer can disable acars inflight,

can be switched off, the circuit breaker can be pulled. acars is non critical equipment. its utility is in airline management, not aircraft flight or safety

AFAIK, there is always 1 FE always aboard a commercial airline, now there is no flight engineer here that is being shown up as guilty. So it has to be ground crew, and there is no hint towards that either by the Malaysians.

almost all aircraft now are 2 crew - pilot and co-pilot. the flight engineer has been redundant on commercial airliners for over 2 decades

anant - dont be such a spoil sport

surely you cannot discount the theory of the co-pilot breaking in the new cabin stewardess in the cockpit whilst the captain snoozed?

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 27 Mar 2014 12:46

CNN interviews the former founder of Malaysian Airlines who is credited with knowing the captain for~ 30 years and gives him a clean chit.
He apparently knew the co-pilot too, too well to acquit him as well. The reason? "... he could recite the entire Koran by-heart and was a good muslim"!

habal · Post by **habal** » 27 Mar 2014 12:50

Lalmohan wrote: almost all aircraft now are 2 crew - pilot and co-pilot. the flight engineer has been redundant on commercial airliners for over 2 decades

Full Service Airlines always have one aboard. Can't say what economy airlines do in name of economy. But this isn't the case in every instance. Jet has one till date or until very recently. Wanna bet.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Mar 2014 12:51

ok, but aircraft are designed to only fly with 2 crew

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Mar 2014 13:46

ravar wrote:CNN interviews the former founder of Malaysian Airlines who is credited with knowing the captain for~ 30 years and gives him a clean chit.
He apparently knew the co-pilot too, too well to acquit him as well. The reason? "... he could recite the entire Koran by-heart and was a good muslim"!

Did anyone ask him about the Malaysian Air Force radar operator officer and his three underlings. Maybe they were praying when the plane flew over, so that is excusable?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Mar 2014 14:05

allah willed it kaffir
deal with it

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Mar 2014 14:11

Rav,I've heard that statement before on one of my boards,"X isn't lying because X goes to church in the morning and the evening"! The Xtremists aren't from just one faith,but the attitude is aamzing.

Another bizarre conspi. theory,but what if the basic facts are true? Amazing coincidence!

Rothschild Takes Down Malaysian Airliner MH370 to Gain Rights to a Semiconductor Patent – Getting Rid of Those Who Stood in His Way!
Monday, March 24, 2014
(Before It's News)
With the disappearance of those on Malaysian Airlines MH370 billionaire Jacob Rothschild becomes the sole owner of an important semiconductor patent.

Coincidence? I think not! The mysteries surrounding Malaysian Airliner MH-370 continue to grow with each passing day and Mr. Rothschild is smack dab in the middle.

Illuminati member, Rothschild, is believed to have exploited the airliner to gain full Patent Rights of an incredible KL-03 micro-chip. The US technological company, Freescale Semiconductor, who shared its rights with Rothschild, had twenty senior members on board who had just launched a new electronic warfare gadget for military radar system’s the day before the plane went missing.

The Semiconductor company develops microprocessors, sensors, and other technology including stand-alone semiconductors that perform dedicated computing functions.

But the questions that arise are why were there so many Freescale employees traveling together? What were their jobs? Their mission? And did they employees carry valuable cargo? With all the power our elite carry, why couldn’t they track down the missing plane?

Of the 239 people aboard flight MH370, most of them were engineers and others working to make the company’s chip facilities in Tianjin, China and Kuala Lumpur more efficient.

“These were people with a lot of experience and technical background and they were very important people,” Haws said. “It’s definitely a loss for the company.” Mitch Haws vice president of global communications and investors relations

According to the Freescale’s website, operations for the company began in 1972 and covered an eight hectare site that tests and manufactures microprocessors, digital signal processors and integrated radio frequency circuits.

Furthermore it owns Freescale RF which is involved in making solutions for Aerospace and Defense including: Battlefield communications, Avionics, HF Radar – Band L and S, Missile Guidance, Electronic Warfare, and Identification (IFF).

But here’s where it gets even more interesting. The Freescale’s shareholders include the Carlyle Group who’s past advisors have included ex-US president George Bush Sr and former British Prime Minister John Major. Some of the companies previous clients include the construction firm owned by the family of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi Binladin Group.

What makes this claim stand out above all the other theories is the fact that so many highly qualified staff members were on board and if the airliner crashed into the Indian Ocean, as recently reported, then this would validate the claim all the more.
Considering the large passenger jet had flown undetected for six hours, the elites had to be involved because they are the only ones who can accomplish such a task.

According to World Truth TV…..
“Avoiding radar via “cloaking technology” has long been one of the objectives of the defense industry and Freescale has been active developing chips for military radar.
On its website, the company says its radio frequency products meet the requirements for applications in “avionics, radar, communications, missile guidance, electronic warfare and identification friend or foe”.

Last June it announced it was creating a team of specialists dedicated to producing “radio frequency power products” for the defense industry.
And on March 3, it announced it was releasing 11 of these new gadgets for use in “high frequency, VHF and low-band UHF radar and radio communications”.

The company [Freescale] did not respond to questions from Express Online, including whether any of its missing employees had been working on the defense products.

It neither provided any responses to the latest bizarre conspiracy theory being widely published on the comments sections of newspaper websites and other internet forums.

The comment reads: “It reads: “Have you pieced together the puzzle of missing flight 370 to Beijing China? If not, here are your missing pieces.

Four days after the flight MH370 disappear, semiconductor patent was approved by the U.S. patent office patent is divided in parts of 20% between five starters. One of the owners is the company itself, Freescale Semiconductor, Austin, Texas (USA), and the other four Chinese employees of the company: Peidong Wang, Zhijun Chen, Cheng and Li Ying Zhijong, all the Suzhou City. And they all passengers of Malaysia Airlines plane disappeared on March 8, according Eternity.”

It adds: “Here is your motive for the missing Beijing plane. As all four Chinese members of the Patent were passengers on the missing plane.”

Patent holders can alter the proceeds legally by passing wealth to their heirs. “However, they cannot do so until the Patent is approved. So when the plane went missing, the patent had not been approved.”

Although a Freescale patent exists under number US8650327, none of the names listed actually appear on the passenger manifest released by the Malaysian authorities.

If the patent holder dies, the other owners share equally in dividends from the deceased. If four of the five patents die, then the patent left alive gets 100% of the patent. That remaining patent holder is the company Freescale Semiconductor. Who owns Freescale Semiconductor? The answer is: Jacob Rothschild. British billionaire owns the company Blackstone, which in turn owns the company Freescale Semiconductors. Several speculations on the Internet now pay attention to this circumstance. The Rothschilds are a dynasty of financiers and international bankers of German-Jewish origin . The family is from the nineteenth century one of the most influential families of bankers and financiers of Europe.”

TO See Patent Upclose: http://truthnewsinternational.files.wor ... om/2014/03

Still unanswered Qs by the authorities,alleged sighting of the aircraft in the Maldives,cellphones ringing hours after the aircraft would've run out of fuel,implying it was on the ground somewhere,reluctance to release the cargo manifest.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 27 Mar 2014 14:19

Engine catches fire on domestic Malaysian flight

unrelated to the MH370, happened today

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Mar 2014 14:37

Philip wrote: Four days after the flight MH370 disappear, semiconductor patent was approved by the U.S. patent office patent is divided in parts of 20% between five starters. One of the owners is the company itself, Freescale Semiconductor, Austin, Texas (USA), and the other four Chinese employees of the company: Peidong Wang, Zhijun Chen, Cheng and Li Ying Zhijong, all the Suzhou City. And they all passengers of Malaysia Airlines plane disappeared on March 8, according Eternity.”

It adds: “Here is your motive for the missing Beijing plane. As all four Chinese members of the Patent were passengers on the missing plane.”

Philip there's a problem here, Their names really are not on the passenger manifest (I checked). That means that the US patent office cannot declare them as having died in that disappearance.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Mar 2014 14:46

to add the tamasha, thai sat has spotted 300 objects in same area.

and till date not a single cup recovered. claims of 60 feet seas driving ships off.

there is apparently 5 million tons of floating garbage in the north pacific from the japan tsunami alone.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 27 Mar 2014 15:08

shiv wrote:
Philip wrote: Four days after the flight MH370 disappear, semiconductor patent was approved by the U.S. patent office patent is divided in parts of 20% between five starters. One of the owners is the company itself, Freescale Semiconductor, Austin, Texas (USA), and the other four Chinese employees of the company: Peidong Wang, Zhijun Chen, Cheng and Li Ying Zhijong, all the Suzhou City. And they all passengers of Malaysia Airlines plane disappeared on March 8, according Eternity.”

It adds: “Here is your motive for the missing Beijing plane. As all four Chinese members of the Patent were passengers on the missing plane.”
Philip there's a problem here, Their names really are not on the passenger manifest (I checked). That means that the US patent office cannot declare them as having died in that disappearance.

The patent story has no credibility even if inventors were on the plane. Prosecution of a patent application is a costly process and employees are obligated to transfer the rights of paid work to employer unless a specific exemption was obtained prior to start of employment.

With authority, I can reject both the Freescale and patent conspiracies. However valuable thge poatent might have been, all its ownership was decided long long time ago. And inventors typically carry no rights with them, whether the application has been granted or not.

Note also, that like journal articles, patents are mostly useless articles. The famed apple/samsung fights are not about patents, they are political acts. Patents were envisioned to be a defensive measure to prevent being sued, rather than the predatory regime they are now.

In the scope of patent in question though, international enforcement is impossible. The value of enforcement comes from billions of copies sold, and not half a dozen.

By the way, given a choice, don't file for a patent. Keep a trade secret or leave matters public.

Edit: Its an ordinary pedestrian publication: http://www.google.com/patents/US8650327#classifications
assigned to freescale in 2011, even used as collatral.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 27 Mar 2014 15:37

Cocos Keeling Islands do not appear to have an active radar installation at the present time. The only radar in the area would have been any airborne or ship borne ones.

shanth wrote:
I have worked on Sat modems before, including those that talk to Inmarsat satellites. The modem on the airplane will receive the signal from the satellite and use it to remove its own oscillator drift, just like your cell phone does right now. Only thing left is doppler due to speed. No magic here, standard stuff

-S

The ac receives a pulse from the satellite, if the ac is moving away from the satellite, the pulse from the satellite is redshifted by an amount proportional to the doppler shift due to the relative motion of the satellite and the ac. Now it locks its oscillator into this doppler shifted pulse and broadcasts its own pulse. So the net shift measured at the satellite is 2x the actual doppler shift due to relative motion between the satellite and the ac?

What kind of oscillator is used in an ac? is it a quartz clock - an TCXO/MCXO/OCXO? How stable is that corrected signal? over the timescale of the handshake how much does the frequency of the oscillator on the ac drift by? How stable is a real oscillator on a real airplane in flight (as opposed to what is measured on a test rig in the hanger)? Are two oscillators on two different airplanes drifting by the same amount?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Mar 2014 16:06

and don't forget schuler tuning effects!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Mar 2014 16:23

Boeing Satcomm link question - what is the frequency on which it operates? Google Devata was not much help, Wiki gives this:

Inmarsat and LightSquared terminals use frequencies between 1525 and 1646.5 MHz to communicate with the satellites.

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L_band#Tel ... ations_use )

INMARSAT satellite question: Wiki ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostation ... _stability )

A combination of lunar gravity, solar gravity, and the flattening of the Earth at its poles causes a precession motion of the orbital plane of any geostationary object, with a period of about 53 years and an initial inclination gradient of about 0.85 degrees per year, achieving a maximum inclination of 15 degrees after 26.5 years. To correct for this orbital perturbation, regular orbital stationkeeping manoeuvres are necessary, amounting to a delta-v of approximately 50 m/s per year.

What state is the INMARSAT satellite in? I ask for two reasons - one, to understand their plot where there is no zero frequency offset; and second to understand if the motion of the satellite is sufficient to break the north-south path symmetry.

E.g., does the plot above with no frequency offset mean the satellite is not quite geostationary, with a velocity of around 100 Hz/1500 * 10^6 Hz * 3 * 10^8 m/s = 20 m/sec ?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Mar 2014 16:54

No comment

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 27 Mar 2014 17:05

I really wish the INMARSAT people would publish this as a short paper on the arxiv. There are so many questions in my mind about this, that are not addressed by the disclosure from the Malaysian government. It also does not appear that outside the Malaysian PMO, any scientists in Malaysia saw the UKAAIB-Inmarsat analysis in level of detail.

Given the extent of resources that being ploughed into this south of Subang and the fact the TNI-AU radar at Sabang didn't see an airliner in the time frame in question, I am uncomfortable with this being the only thing driving the search.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Mar 2014 17:41

the radar not seeing can be explained by duty personel sleeping and not realising that there was a problem
neither malaysia nor indonesia (and i'm not sure about thailand) have been on any active military alert stance for some time - particularly for air defence
ofcourse they can't admit that in public

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Mar 2014 17:50

Last night on CNN, they had one Indian gentleman (Bimal Sharma if am not mistaken) whose sister was on that ill fated flight. And he is actually a merchant navy sailor who has scaled those high seas in the south Indian ocean, and also said he has done search and recovery. According to him, all the debris being spotted could very well be garbage from ships, and ship containers. He was referring to treachery of the weather and how many times lots of containers just slip off the ships and meander around. And he also said that the ocean currents are such that all the garbage flows in that direction. He was not wholesale disputing that the plane could have crashed there, but was raising some well-informed skepticism.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Mar 2014 18:06

yes, that part of the ocean does have a lot of debris, that is relatively well known

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 27 Mar 2014 18:07

Sabang and Campbell Bay are distant 115 miles. The TNI-AU radar at Sabang and the IN ASR at Campbell Bay should have a range of ~ 60 miles each.

If both were turned on, the flight could not have crossed the Sabang-Campbell Bay line without being detected.

The only explanation we have for missing intercepts is radars that weren't working.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Mar 2014 18:14

or that the operators did not know what to do, or chose not to do anything

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 27 Mar 2014 18:25

I find it hard to believe that that was the case in India. I can't speak for other places.