Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis

[harbans]

Angola Bans Islam

LUANDA – According to several Angolain newspapers, Angola has become the first country in the world to ban Islam and Muslims, taking first measures by destroying mosques in the country.

“The process of legalization of Islam has not been approved by the Ministry of Justice and Human Rights, their mosques would be closed until further notice,” Rosa Cruz e Silva, the Angolan Minister of Culture, was quoted by Agence Ecofin on Friday, November 22.

Silva comments were given during her visit last Tuesday to the 6th to the Commission of the National Assembly.

Now Saudi will oppose Human Rights violation?

[gunjur]

^^^
African State Of Angola Bans Islam, All Mosques To Be Destroyed

By popular demand, Angolan authorities have taken pre-emptive action and decided to ban the Muslim religion, which they consider a cult, NOT a religion. It should be noted that the Angolan government has made closing of all mosques a priority.

And as rightly explained Tunisian philosopher Mezri Haddad: “Islamism and Islamophobia feed each other. Worse, long-term Islamism as an ideology destroy Islam as religion. “

Islam in Angola is a minority religion with 80,000 – 90,000 adherents, composed largely of migrants from West Africa and families of Lebanese origin. The Muslims comprise between 2.5 to 3 percent of Angola’s overall population of 17 million people, most of them Christians.

in the last decade, but especially during the last few years the Muslim community in Angola has grown appreciably and Islamic activities have become more common in major cities. Mosques have sprung up in a number of places and Qur’anic schools have been built to provide Islamic instructions and teach Arabic language to adherents.

On September 1, 2008, a Muslim mob attacked non-Muslims in the community of Andulo. The school-age daughter of a deacon at one of the churches was decapitated. Forty Christians were assaulted or tortured. The mob burned three church buildings. They also went to non-Muslim houses to intimidate them or destroyed items of property. Stones were thrown at the headquarters of a local Christian project, causing some damage. An Angolan Christian leader said that the local police were unable to stop the attack and fled the scene.

[harbans]

India should continue to maintain good relations with Angola, just like we do with Saudi. So are Angolians Islamophobic? Or are the ones who appease Islam Islamophobic?

[Baikul]

I have no idea why I suddenly remembered that Christmas carol "Joy to the World".

[Rajagopal]

I have posted this information on a public message board and reproducing the same here for the benefit of everyone. The link is at: http://canadiandesi.com/read.php?TID=34681

I am driven to post my thoughts on Halal meat after two interesting experiences recently.

1st incident: Recently, we were invited to dinner by a family friend who happens to be a person of Hindu faith. His wife had cooked a delicious meal of chicken and goat curry. We praised their cooking skills, as always. The hubby was delighted and revealed the “secret” that they always get “fresh Halal meat from the Iqbal’s”. I was taken aback and gently enquired as to the reason for using Halal meat. He smugly replied “because Halal meat is a clean and healthy meat”. Needless to say, I was shocked and sad as to his ignorance.

2nd incident: After a busy day of shopping at the mall, we decided to have our lunch at one of the Indian fast food places in the food-court. This place advertises itself with the tag-line “real Indian food”. I had always assumed that the “Halal” sign meant that it is an option for customers who prefer Halal. Just to be sure I asked the server if the meat served was non-Halal. I was shocked to hear him say that everything on display is Halal. In other words, unsuspecting customers have been served and have been consuming Halal meat without their knowledge of the same. I felt deeply hurt and helpless, to say the least.

Islamists have long been trying to portray Halal meat as a "clean/pure/healthy" meat for people of other religions. Nothing could be farther from truth.

One of the core issues with Halal meat centers around the slow and very painful death inflicted on an animal while it is still conscious. Reams of documentation are available on this matter. Below is what PETA has to say about this practise. LINK

But, what Halal really means and its implications on non-Muslims are very profound as follows:

1) To be accepted as Halal, an animal is killed followed by utterings on the lines of "there is no other god but Allah” and similar other variations. In other words, food sanctified as per the complete acceptance of Allah and his Quranic teachings.
The problem arises when a person of non-Islamic faith consumes this meat without knowing the true meaning of Halal meat. One has unintentionally accepted complete submission and adherence to the Islamic faith. One’s faith instantly conflicts with their core beliefs whether one is Pious Hindu or an ardent follower of Christianity, Sikhism, Buddhism, Judaism or even a person with Humanist philosophies. All their rituals and religious practices become meaningless. As an analogy, it is no different than a person of Muslim faith consuming pork without their personal knowledge.

This awareness is slowing growing in the mainstream (http://www.boycotthalal.com/) but many are still in the dark about what Halal meat really means. Please inform your family members, friends and well-wishers. There is simply no reason for a person of non-Islamic faith to eat Halal meat knowingly or unknowingly.

Rajagopal.

[Karan M]

Angola of all places.. interesting. Wonder if they'll be able to sustain this move.

[harbans]

Angola of all places.. interesting. Wonder if they'll be able to sustain this move.

I don't see why it's a problem. We deal with Saudi Arabia. It's a move that will highlight core Islamist doctrine as unsuitable for unbelievers. Something that the doctrine itself unabashedly tells. I see it as a very logical Dharmic step. Doctrines that keep to themselves, don;t step on other's toes and have respect for the core constitution must only be given respect and equality under law.

[Chinmayanand]

http://www.jhuf.net/showthread.php?1842 ... ier-s-Head

[Chandragupta]

Deleted.

[gunjur]

It helps that angola is a oil exporter and not the other way round.

[RoyG]

http://www.jhuf.net/showthread.php?1842 ... ier-s-Head

I hope we get a new government that will take the fight to these mlecchas. Nothing less than marinating them with pig fat and torching them alive will do.

[Brad Goodman]

Chinese anti-veil 'beauty' campaign sows ugly tensions

A Chinese government worker in the ancient Silk Road oasis of Kashgar beckons two women to her streetside stand and logs their details under the gaze of a surveillance camera. Their offence: wearing veils.

The "Project Beauty" campaign aims to discourage women from covering their faces — a religious practice for some Muslim Uighurs, the largest ethnic group in China's Xinjiang region — in an attempt to improve security.

[Varoon Shekhar]

They were called singh brotherhood of the coastof Bengalla and were in the first episode.

Who can forget Start Trek's "The Wrath of Khan" with the main genetically engineered character named "Khan Noonien Singh" from the plains of Punjab? Singh brotherhood with an overlay of a malsi name? The circle is complete.

One episode of "CSI Miami" had a reference to an Iranian terrorist with the last name "Shankar". A "Law and Order" episode featured an Indian girl called "Rehana", with one of the detectives confidently stating, upon hearing the name, 'sounds Indian to me". Actually, it is not a noticably Indian name, and positively not a popular one.

Not going too far OT , in police shows, certain ethnic groups are almost always typcast into committing specific crimes, ie. East Indians into forced arranged marriages or honour killings, Blacks and Latinos as gangstas or petty criminals, East Europeans into prostitution and trafficking, with some shadowy link to Albania, Croatia or Russia.

In reality, there are East Indian fraudsters/inside traders, suave Black and Latino criminals, and East Europeans who commit crimes independent of the mafia or trafficking. Police shows do not reflect this!

[Agnimitra]

Angola 'Bans Islam', Dismantles Mosques, According To News Reports

A number of news outlets have reported that Angola has "banned" Islam and started to dismantle mosques in a bold effort to stem the spread of Muslim extremism.

Weekly French-language Moroccan newspaper La Nouvelle Tribune published an article on Friday sourcing "several" Angolan officials, including the Southwest African nation's minister of culture, Rosa Cruz, who reportedly offered the following remarks, which have been translated from French: "The process of legalization of Islam has not been approved by the Ministry of Justice and Human Rights. Their mosques would be closed until further notice."

The media reports have not described why Islam would need to be legalized, considering its presence in the country for many years.

OnIslam.net reports that the African economic news agency Agence Ecofin wrote that Cruz made the statement at an appearance last week before the 6th Commission of the National Assembly. The website goes on to note that, "According to several Angolan newspapers, Angola has become the first country in the world to ban Islam and Muslims, taking first measures by destroying mosques in the country."

Even Angola President José Eduardo dos Santos has weighed in on the controversy, as he was quoted in Nigeria's Osun Defender newspaper on Sunday as saying, "This is the final end of Islamic influence in our country," according to the OnIslam.net report.

The reported comments by Cruz and Santos echo the stance of the governor of the country's Luanda province, Bento Francisco Bento, who reportedly maintains that "radical Muslims were not welcome in Angola and that the government was not ready to legalize the presence of mosques in the country," according to a La Nouvelle Tribune summary of Bento's take on the issue.

In a physical extension of the officials' sentiments about Islam's place in Angola, La Nouvelle Tribune said that a minaret of an Angolan mosque was dismantled last October, and that the city of Zango "has gone further by destroying the only mosque in the city."

The emerging reports about Angola "banning" Islam and dismantling mosques point to the anti-Islam sentiments held by many in the nation's citizens, but they could not immediately be independently verified by International Business Times.

Angola is a majority-Christian nation of about 16 million people, of whom an estimated 55 percent are Catholic, 25 percent belong to African Christian denominations, 10 percent follow major Protestant traditions, and 5 percent belong to Brazilian Evangelical churches. Only 80,000 to 90,000 Angolans are Muslim, according to the U.S. State Department.

[Agnimitra]

Central African Republic: Unspeakable horrors in a country on the verge of genocide

This is the world of horrors that the Central African Republic (CAR) has become. Thousands of people are dying at the hands of soldiers and militia gangs or from untreated diseases such as malaria. Boys and girls as young as eight are pressganged into fighting between Christians and Muslims. There are reports of beheadings and public execution-style killings. Villages are razed to the ground.

Never much more than a phantom state, the CAR has sucked in thousands of mercenaries from neighbouring countries and, France warned on Thursday, now stands "on the verge of genocide".

The latest eruption began in March when the unpopular president, François Bozizé, fled by helicopter with five suitcases after being overthrown by a loose coalition of rebels, bandits and guns for hire known as the Seleka, meaning "alliance" in the local language. One of its leaders, Michel Djotodia, declared himself president — the first Muslim to rule this majority Christian nation of 4.6 million people. What Médecins sans Frontières termed "a crisis on top of a crisis" for the population accelerated considerably in September when Djotodia officially disbanded the Seleka. Many of the rebels refused to disarm and leave the militias as ordered but veered further out of control, killing, looting and burning villages. They also systematically stripped administrative offices down to the light fittings and destroyed public records.

What started as a political movement against the corrupt and autocratic Bozizé is now taking on an ominously religious character. Nearly all the Seleka are Muslim, including mercenaries from neighbouring Chad and the notorious Janjaweed from Sudan's Darfur region. An "us and them" mentality of mutual distrust and paranoia is taking root, with some Christians taking up arms in vigilante militias known as "anti-balaka" — meaning anti-sword or anti-machete — and committing atrocities of their own, giving the Seleka a pretext for yet more aggression. The spiral of violence has become a recruiting sergeant for thousands of child soldiers.

Everyone at the Catholic mission in Bossangoa is Christian; internally displaced Muslims are gathered in a part of town including about 450 at a school, where wood desks and benches lie abandoned under trees and the blackboards are frozen at 2 August 2013. It is a stark physical separation. Romeo adds: "We have never seen religions tensions like this in the CAR before. The CAR is not a Muslim country; it is a Christian country. We have never seen so many Muslims in the country before. They have come from other countries."

[Agnimitra]

Angola 'Bans Islam', Dismantles Mosques, According To News Reports

Probably was a media trial baloon op...

Angola Denies It Banned Islam, Destroyed Mosques

Angola became a hot topic in the international media over the weekend, as news outlets around the world wrote about reports that the Southwest African nation had banned Islam and had begun to dismantle mosques.

But an official at the Angolan Embassy in Washington, D.C., who did not want to be identified while discussing the sensitive matter, said that there is no such ban, and that the reports are erroneous.

“The Republic of Angola … it’s a country that does not interfere in religion,” the official said via telephone Monday afternoon. “We have a lot of religions there. It is freedom of religion. We have Catholic, Protestants, Baptists, Muslims and evangelical people.”

News of Angola’s supposed ban on Islam originated in the African press, which went so far as to quote the nation’s president and minister of culture offering statements that suggested the premise of the reports was accurate.

A second official at the Angolan Embassy in the U.S. reiterated that the diplomatic seat has not been made aware of any ban on Islam in the country.

“At the moment we don’t have any information about that,” the official told IBTimes via phone on Monday. “We’re reading about it just like you on the Internet. We don’t have any notice that what you’re reading on the Internet is true.”

A close examination of some of the initial reports about the supposed ban and dismantling of mosques reveals some suspect findings. One such discrepancy is that a Google Images search shows that a photograph published by numerous news outlets this month that purportedly depicts the minaret of an Angolan mosque being dismantled in October 2012 had been used at least as early Jan. 23, 2008, when the Housing & Land Rights Network posted it to illustrate an article about the destruction of Bedouin homes in Israel.

The officials at the Angolan Embassy in Washington could not attest to the veracity of the comments attributed to officials in Angola seemingly affirming the Islam ban, which outlets including IBTimes had referenced in initial stories on the reports published over the weekend.

Angolan President José Eduardo dos Santos reportedly weighed in on the controversy, as he was quoted in Nigeria's Osun Defender newspaper on Sunday as saying, "This is the final end of Islamic influence in our country," according to a report by the website OnIslam.net, which was accompanied by the suspect photo supposedly depicting the Angolan mosque’s minaret being dismantled in October of last year.

“The president has been out of the country for a week,” the first Angolan Embassy official mentioned above said, contending that as such he could not have made the remarks as they were reported.

Weekly French-language Moroccan newspaper La Nouvelle Tribune published an article on Friday sourcing "several" Angolan officials, including the minister of Culture, Rosa Cruz, who reportedly offered the following remarks, which have been translated from French: "The process of legalization of Islam has not been approved by the Ministry of Justice and Human Rights. Their mosques would be closed until further notice."

OnIslam.net reports that the African economic news agency Agence Ecofin wrote that Cruz made the statement at an appearance last week before the 6th Commission of the National Assembly. The website goes on to note that, "According to several Angolan newspapers, Angola has become the first country in the world to ban Islam and Muslims, taking first measures by destroying mosques in the country."

The first Angolan Embassy official denied knowledge that Cruz had made such comments.

“I cannot confirm if the Minister of Culture said that. I cannot find that in our press,” the official said.

La Nouvelle Tribune also reported that a minaret of an Angolan mosque was dismantled last October, and that the city of Zango "has gone further by destroying the only mosque in the city." The Embassy officials could not authenticate either of these claims.

Angola is a majority-Christian nation of about 16 million people, of whom an estimated 55 percent are Catholic, 25 percent belong to African Christian denominations, 10 percent follow major Protestant traditions and 5 percent belong to Brazilian Evangelical churches. Only 80,000 to 90,000 Angolans are Muslim, according to the U.S. State Department.

[Dipanker]

The picture posted is graphic, it should not be in-lined, a link would suffice and viewer must be forewarned about the graphic nature of the link.

[Agnimitra]

X-posted from India-Africa thread:

Though the news from Angola may have been a plant, it is an indicator of sentiments on the ground. The news from CAR is not manufactured.

Here is an "Update on Islam in East Africa" from a popular Crusader speaker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hOpyeSdX9A

[panduranghari]

Nursery school has the right to ban Burkha wearing employees

A Paris appeal court has upheld the right of a nursery to fire a female employee who insisted on wearing an Islamic headscarf at work.
The ruling, which came as the European Court of Human Rights began deliberations on an unrelated challenge to France's so-called burka ban, is the latest round of a long-running legal battle which has pitted France's secular authorities against sections of the country's large Muslim minority.
In its ruling, the appeal court overturned a controversial March 2013 verdict that the "Baby-Wolf" kindergarten in the Paris suburbs had been guilty of religious discrimination when it dismissed Fatima Afif in 2008.
Afif was sacked after telling her employer that, on her return to work following a five-year maternity break, she wished to wear a headscarf at work.
The head of the day nursery refused, citing the establishment's rules that employees had to be neutral in terms of philosophy, politics and faith. That led to a stand-off and Afif being made redundant.

..Any overt religious symbols - headscarves, Jewish skullcaps or Sikh turbans for example - are banned from French state schools, which operate on strictly secular lines.

..The French veil ban was introduced under former president Nicolas Sarkozy's centre-right government but has been fully backed by the current Socialist government.
Interior Minister Manuel Valls said recently the ban was "a law against practices that have nothing to do with our traditions and our values".
Belgium and some parts of Switzerland have followed France's lead and similar bans are being considered in Italy and The Netherlands.

[Agnimitra]

Afghanistan 'plans to reintroduce public stoning as punishment for adultery'

[harbans]

One invention one can give Islamists credit for is the Time Machine. They will transport a whole society to the 6th century in no time.

Anyways..see how innocent Indians unaware of basic traditions lose out: (Read in full recommended)

Another new Muslim, Fatima Faheem (Binu) said that she was studying in a university where she had a Muslim friend. One day he asked her about the meaning of 'namaste' (a common greeting in the Subcontinent). As she couldn’t answer, she with the aim to corner him asked about the meaning of Assalamu Alaikum, which he replied by saying it meant 'peace be upon you.' The answer came as a surprise to her.
“I was shocked by the answer. I met his family who were very religious. Slowly I started learning about Islam. It was very difficult to convince my family that I wanted to marry a Muslim man. My whole family was against the decision but later gradually I succeeded in convincing my dad. He gave me to my husband in marriage. I learned about the Qur’an and its meanings from him and his family. I tried to convince my father to accept Islam, unsuccessfully though, but I succeeded in bringing my younger sister to the fold of Islam,” she said.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/483796

[Haresh]

muzzies are always boasting about how many people they convert.
I wonder how many leave the faith either openly or in secret.

I am pretty sure many moslem women and young girls in the west abandon the faith. It is a shame we don't hear to much about that.

[harbans]

I am pretty sure many moslem women and young girls in the west abandon the faith. It is a shame we don't hear to much about that.

The big problem with leaving Islam is that one not only has to face the possible death mandate of apostasy, but if willing to do so, must also break bonds with one's own family. That is also a very difficult part. If i am studying in US and want to change faith..it's a matter of time my family will come to know. And when they do, one never knows who implements the commands of Islam on apostasy. The problem is even more for adherents in India, Pak, Bangladesh. Almost no safe exit option exists.

[JE Menon]

>>I wonder how many leave the faith either openly or in secret.

I don't know if I've mentioned it here on BR before, but from my personal knowledge and experience (only - i.e. no stats), many do. This year I came across a couple of wealthy Syrians in a continental European country who openly and frankly expressed their disillusionment with faith in general and dismissed Islam... I didn't discuss this myself, just listened and was quite surprised by the vehemence. This was not a conversion, rather an abandoning of Islam and a shift towards atheism... They are not unique; it appears there are many in the closet on the issue just to maintain family bonds.

[Philip]

Whatever the truth,ban or no ban,there is a growing intolerance of Islam in many countries because of the extremist agenda of radical Muslims and the silence and complicity by the rest.Few Muslims if any come out openly against extremism in their faith for fear of being punished .The media today spoke of extremists in India now wanting to induct into their terror groups tech-savvy young Muslims,who with their tech skills can be better at sabotage,hacking,etc.Unless there is a no-tolerance policy against such extremism,India is going to be a battleground in the future between the two major communities,thanks to the votebank policy of appeasement of the current regime.While proetcting the fundamental rights of all minorities,it cannot be used or abiused to promote hatred and extremist terror.

The fist act that the GOI should take is to stop all funding of suspected extremist organisations-to make it almost impossible for Wahaabiist funding to enter India overtly from Saudi Arabia and a very strict watch on funding from other Gulf countries.The Saudis aren't the only oil suppliers in the world.There are other countries like Venezuela,Iran,Russia,Brunei,Nigeria,Iraq,etc.,whom we can buy from without hindrance.

[Haresh]

Many years ago I knew a Syrian guy who told me his entire family had left islam. They said they all felt alot better for it, there was no more of the constant hatred for non moslems and the victimhood mentality.

Syrians/Iraqi's/Lebanese are some of the best educated arabs, also they are aware of their own ancient pre islamic history.

The people who seem to cling to the faith are the poorer ones, I count the saudi/gulf nations as poor, because money does not buy intelligence or civilisation.

With regards to the women/girls in the west, they may wear their hijabs, with or without pressure from the males. But realistically how many would if given the stark choice actually relocate to an islamic $hit hole?

I think sharia courts and enforcement should activelly be encouraged. As long as it only applies to moslems and not humans, then it should be encouraged. Nothing turns moslems off islam than islam. This would lead to an increase in apostacy, The grass is always an islamic shade greener on the other side. Let them wallow in their islamic filth.

[sanjaykumar]

A long time ago, I did suggest enabling sharia in India and the west. I was pounced upon in a most undignified manner. I am sorry that you had to spell it out. Some things are best left unexplicated.

Those whom they gods wish to destroy, they grant their most ardent wishes.

[harbans]

One cannot. If one allows Sharia, then death for apostasy and blasphemy are on the top of any Sharia state. One cannot keep them off the list. Rape will require 4 witnesses, so Muslims who commit it can hardly be booked. Mullah based power structures will become dominant in most areas. People think Sharia is strict in punishment..but nothing could be further from the truth. Requiring 4 witnesses for rape means the male will always get away. It's tough being a woman in such a system, but they can't escape from Islam too as Sharia entails death. Families thus murdering someone leaving Islam will be condoned by the Sharia enforcing Mullah. And the rest of the Secular state can just watch the barbarity. On the other a few hands being cut for petty theft and we will have some non muslim locals yelling wow, and wanting to be adjudicated in their taluka/ village by Sharia provisions. That will require the local mullah to convert them in one simple ceremony enmasse. Then it is Hotel California..and apostasy applies. It's really not a wise suggestion to think of implementing Sharia within a democratic setup like ours.

[KJo]

>>I wonder how many leave the faith either openly or in secret.

I don't know if I've mentioned it here on BR before, but from my personal knowledge and experience (only - i.e. no stats), many do. This year I came across a couple of wealthy Syrians in a continental European country who openly and frankly expressed their disillusionment with faith in general and dismissed Islam... I didn't discuss this myself, just listened and was quite surprised by the vehemence. This was not a conversion, rather an abandoning of Islam and a shift towards atheism... They are not unique; it appears there are many in the closet on the issue just to maintain family bonds.

At the local Walmart (in the US), there was an older gentleman about 65-70 who worked in the photo department. His name was Madhu as per his badge. I got to talking with him and found out that he was actually a Pakistani Muslim. As we talked more, he launched a diatribe against Islam, blamed Islam for all that happened to Pakistan, told me how disgusting Pak was and had visited only once in the last 30 years only because his wife forced him to. I was almost afraid some jihadi would attack us and asked him to speak softly. He was Sindhi and and was ruing that Sindh was attacked by the Arabs and brought in desert culture. He was more jingo that a BRFite and told me that he had renounced "that barbaric religion". He was a big fan of Jiddu Krishnamurthi and read all his books. Subsequently, every time I visited, he would smile and start off on that topic.
So I am sure there are many like him.

[Haresh]

So I am sure there are many like him

I had a similar experience with a paki, he asked me where I was from, although UK born we are Indian Punjabi. He was actually born in Amritsar, and crossed over to "the dark side". He said to me partition was the worst thing to happen and he wished it never had. Then he compared the progress in India and the degradation in pak.
Although I didn't say it, I am glad partition happend, otherwise the moslem population would be 40% of a united India and the country would be at war.

Let them wallow in their filth.

[Haresh]

One other story I would like to tell.
Many years ago I went on an expedition across the Morrocon Sahara and Atlas mountains.
Our guides were Berbers.
One night in front of a camp fire under the stars (a sight to see). He asked me where my family were from, I was the only brown person. I told him and he said to me words to the effect "you Indians are very clever, especially with computers and science, we don't like the pakistani's or the arabs"

I expanded the conversation and the jist of it was, they didn't like the paki's because they are always trying to be super moslems and pretending to be arabs. The reason they don't like the arabs is because the Berber language is banned and the arabs are trying to force them to adopt arabic cultural practice and forget not just their language and culture but to try and delete their entire history.
Apparantly Berbers (I read it somewhere) have a very high rate of apostacy.

[ashish raval]

^^ absolutely correct, Haresh. I had a Berber friend from tunisia during my research days who came to UK, via study in France and Italy in exchange visit. During our tea breaks, we did delved into the history of northern Africa many times due to my interest and I got birds eye view of their history. Apparently, Berbers and Carthage --> i.e. greeco-african blue blood were ruling northern Africa and Abbasids/Arabs were not able to defeat them, so they made and alliance, gave their daughters in exchange for allowing Muslims to practice religion and in couple of generations the rulers of the region were Muslim from top down and slowly propagated the religion in the vacuum let by Greek/roman and Christian collapse in the region.

Apparently, martial arts training is compulsory in Tunisia in school as it is found to control anger and increase the physical and mental strength. The gist of all the talks were a) Islam was alien religion for well educated ones but followed them because of tradition b) it was much open society than Arabs c) Saudis were pouring billions in the region to preach their version of Islam and forcing society mould in Arabic way of life d) he had a relative whose wife was Indian origin Muslim and was very fond of her e) his family in UK watched Indian soaps with subtitle !! Which was a little shocker ! Knew Bollywood stars too !! f) he was genuinely in awe of progress made by India despite being such diverse country, crappy politics which was always down to its strength of people and workers. He knew a few guys working for French IT companies who were Indians in Tunisia setting up network, database and it infrastructure in technology parks.

The hate for Arabs among Berbers and Carthage is very well known. Saudis pour money to let them live on dole like Kingdom does, in turn giving them spare time to think of what next comes in empty minds, Religion five times a day. What pi$$ed him the most was in the morning Saudis would come and preach sermons yada yada and in night they will be out on private beach parties enjoying mehfils, Hukka, crack and having all illegal stuff done which they would otherwise have their heads chopped off in kingdom.

[member_28030]

muzzies are always boasting about how many people they convert.
I wonder how many leave the faith either openly or in secret.

I am pretty sure many moslem women and young girls in the west abandon the faith. It is a shame we don't hear to much about that.

Many do, then many new are born/convert.

Over-all equation readings as "Islam = Growing " ...and that is very accurate.

Specifics are very hard to find/quantify.

[member_28030]

I started a thread...but it got banned for god knows what reason...so I'm posting it here..

Please read and tell what are your views regarding this?

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... f=1&t=6696


The Islamic Plague, its strength, and its solution[/u][/size]


Background

Well, Islam is probably the strongest ideological force humankind has ever seen. Islam is not like any other religion. Islam is a VERY , VERY strong and complete ideological framework that has religious , political , social , economic , spiritual , military ,and legalistic aspects to it. History of mankind has never seen such a solid and consistent ideology. Almost all the time, whereever Islam went , it ingrained itself in the soil of that land (the only exception is Spain where Muslims ruled 800 years but then driven back. Balkans were just under Turkish rule but never had any significant Muslim presence or cultural influence). Graham E. Fuller in his book , "A world without Islam" , writes that Islam has got great vitality and it is culturally, economically and socially very strong. People used to "mentally-m*sterbate" that Islam thrives in poorer countries etc but in the last century , this myth has been practically debunked now. Countries like Turkey , Malaysia , Indonesia , Saudi Arabia , Qatar , Kuwait etc etc are very rich and prosperous (and Western in case of Turkey) but yet , Islam not only survive but it THRIVES in these lands. Unlike Christianity , which is a dead religion now in the West, Islam is a very influential religion. Wherever it exists , its followers practice it. Even the Muslim communities in the Western world take Islam seriously and practice and live by their faith.

Islam "self-grow" itself by Islamic finance. Islamic banking is now over a trillion dollar industry and growing. Islamic halal industry is worth $2.5 trillion and growing. Islam practically holds a HUGE chunk of geographic area (~ 30,000,000 sq. kilometers) and has significant presence in Western China , India , Russia , Europe etc .Islam is literally present in EVERY SINGLE NATION ON EARTH!.







Now Islam is moving to the "New World" for the first time. Islam also has one of the largest, most comprehensive law-code in the history of mankind. ~ 1.8-2.2 billion people all around the world get influenced by Islamic Shari'ah (directly or indirectly) in one way or the other.

Islam presents itself as a "total" ideology covering all aspects of life, it gives it's followers a sense of a shared culture and brotherhood, and a sense of emptiness to those who begin to doubt it.Islam legislates almost EVERYTHING of a human being. It controls them completely. From food to sex ...from marriage to divorce..from personal cleanness to manners of using toilet etc. Islam plays role in everything and this make its followers to start recognizing with Islam. Islam just ingrains itself in the mind of follower and even if a follower leave Islam , he/she won't come out of it for ever! (I know many such people who still wear Hijabs , don't eat pork or drink etc just because they WERE Muslims. Now it has become a part of them).



Also , Islam has a VERY strong culture. Muslim girls would not date a "non-Muslim" guy and their first preference will always be to look for a "Muslim" boy (experience from high school/college lol). Even if Muslim girls have sex , kissing , dating etc with "non-Muslim" guys , they will very rarely marry them. They always marry within their community and produce their offsprings under the strong Islamic umbrella.


Islam will gain 2.2 billion followers in less than 1450 years, a feat unmatched by any other religion in human history (and in all likeness, will remain unmatched for ever)- Christianity did the same in 2001 years...

Islam is a ideological force having socio-economic, cultural, religious, legal, social, spiritual, and military components to it..Probably the most strongest ideological force to have ever existed...This also makes it way more successful, considering its global spread (It exists in literally every single nation on Earth)....

Remember, spreading just a religion (by changing it and adapting to local culture, like Christianity) is easy...Spread of an comprehensive ideological force such as Islam is hard...very hard..but Islam did it-successfully. Islam is only such ideological, cultural force in human history that is "global" and spread to every single corner to Earth...

Girls in Hijabs are a common sight in Western Universities now a days. It is visual evidence of presence of Islam...you can "feel" it...Can't say that for christianity though...


All these facts make Islam , I think , the strongest ideological fore on the planet. It just doesn't fcuking go down. French ripped their a$$es off to convert Algerians but after hundred years of colonialism , 99.3% of Algerians were still Muslims. . All this show that , as Karen Armstrong put it , Islam just went stronger , stronger , stronger and stronger from the day Muhammad started it. It is spreading like a bubonic plague, even in U.S now...


Current trends (just continuation of background)

Also , about 60% -70% of Muslims worldwide are people who are "young" and hence they'll be getting into their "productive age" and will be reproducing in coming years. Which means ...surprise...Islam will grow even larger! Above that , Islam is a self-perpetuating ideology that starts growing when it goes to a new place. Islam conquered many nations , and instead of despising it , those nations started spreading Islam even further!!!!

Today, Islam is only expanding ...politically (Arab Spring) , culturally , economically , religiously , legally, militarily etc etc and it looks unstoppable ...just like it has been over the centuries!!!!

Most important part of entire post

The biggest strength of Islam, in my opinion, is its girls. Muslim Girls! There are approximately 700-800 million Muslim girls all over the world. This is the game changer, the core of Islamic Civilization and its global spread. Muslim girls are generally way more practicing than Muslim guys..Even in my university, Muslim girls will be way ahead of Muslim guys in setting up Islamic events, spreading Islamic information and knowledge on campus, and so on. They wear Hijab and uphold their Islamic identity above everything else. And these Muslim girls are also future mothers of Muslims..so when a new baby in born, it stays under the watch of mothers most of the time. And since Muslim girls are 'Islamic', they pass down Islam to their new generation..and this cycle goes on. That is why, with time, Christianity died in West and became irrelevant..That didn't happen to Islam. Islam exerts significant influence wherever it exists..

Muslim girls generally live by strong morals and conviction, unlike, sadly, our Western girls who have been made piece of trash by media and ***** industry..and our birth rates have fallen!

Solution:

In my opinion, this biggest threat to human race in our entire history (Islamic plague) is very hard to contain. I think that we, the non-Muslim guys, must focus on Muslim girls for education, and awareness. We can use friendship, or even romantic relationships for this purpose. I know, its hard. They aren't promiscuous (another great strength of Islam) but we can try.

If we can start a trend of speaking to Muslim girls, or going out with them, and helping them to break away from Islam..then I see some hope. We might be able to slow down the march of Islam atleast in the parts of Western World and where non-Muslims are still majority.

What do you guys think?

================

I saw it posted on an Israeli forum, what are your thoughts on it? (Specially parts other than the "solution" portion).

[member_28030]

@Haresh and others...

I hope you read and respond.

[KJo]

One invention one can give Islamists credit for is the Time Machine. They will transport a whole society to the 6th century in no time.

Anyways..see how innocent Indians unaware of basic traditions lose out: (Read in full recommended)

Another new Muslim, Fatima Faheem (Binu) said that she was studying in a university where she had a Muslim friend. One day he asked her about the meaning of 'namaste' (a common greeting in the Subcontinent). As she couldn’t answer, she with the aim to corner him asked about the meaning of Assalamu Alaikum, which he replied by saying it meant 'peace be upon you.' The answer came as a surprise to her.
“I was shocked by the answer. I met his family who were very religious. Slowly I started learning about Islam. It was very difficult to convince my family that I wanted to marry a Muslim man. My whole family was against the decision but later gradually I succeeded in convincing my dad. He gave me to my husband in marriage. I learned about the Qur’an and its meanings from him and his family. I tried to convince my father to accept Islam, unsuccessfully though, but I succeeded in bringing my younger sister to the fold of Islam,” she said.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/483796

I don't understand how this works. When someone tells me there is only 1 God, why doesn't it touch my heart?
Why doesn't it drive me to read the Quran? Or grow a beard?
Why don't I want to go in the right path?
Why do I insist on living in darkness??
Why doesn't this Kafir see the light?
why o why?

[member_22872]

In my opinion, this biggest threat to human race in our entire history (Islamic plague) is very hard to contain. I think that we, the non-Muslim guys, must focus on Muslim girls for education, and awareness. We can use friendship, or even romantic relationships for this purpose. I know, its hard. They aren't promiscuous (another great strength of Islam) but we can try.

If we can start a trend of speaking to Muslim girls, or going out with them, and helping them to break away from Islam..then I see some hope. We might be able to slow down the march of Islam atleast in the parts of Western World and where non-Muslims are still majority.

Muslim women are dependent, they themselves are slaves with their acquiscience or not. Their role is limited to do what is told to them, in Saudia they cannot even drive, and you are proposing to educate them? Okay, even for argument sake even if we agree to educate them, educate them in what? Islam wants to implement sharia everywhere, that means if they can they will abolish all sorts of schools except of islamic madrassas. Women's education would have been a good idea in other societies, but you are taking on a repressive society that doesnt want to take its head out of the sand and in fact wants to bury every head in the same sand else they would not hesistate the cut off the head that doesnt bow.

The problem is Islam itself, if you want to call a spade a spade dispassionately. Political dominance with barbaric social engineering are strongly intertwined with their religious dogma. It doesn't matter how you want to solve the secondary problems if you dont address the root of the problem, when diagnosis is wrong, you cannot cure the disease.

[Aditya_V]

quote="harbans"]One invention one can give Islamists credit for is the Time Machine. They will transport a whole society to the 6th century in no time.

Anyways..see how innocent Indians unaware of basic traditions lose out: (Read in full recommended)

Another new Muslim, Fatima Faheem (Binu) said that she was studying in a university where she had a Muslim friend. One day he asked her about the meaning of 'namaste' (a common greeting in the Subcontinent). As she couldn’t answer, she with the aim to corner him asked about the meaning of Assalamu Alaikum, which he replied by saying it meant 'peace be upon you.' The answer came as a surprise to her.
“I was shocked by the answer. I met his family who were very religious. Slowly I started learning about Islam. It was very difficult to convince my family that I wanted to marry a Muslim man. My whole family was against the decision but later gradually I succeeded in convincing my dad. He gave me to my husband in marriage. I learned about the Qur’an and its meanings from him and his family. I tried to convince my father to accept Islam, unsuccessfully though, but I succeeded in bringing my younger sister to the fold of Islam,” she said.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/483796/quote]

I don't understand how this works. When someone tells me there is only 1 God, why doesn't it touch my heart?
Why doesn't it drive me to read the Quran? Or grow a beard?
Why don't I want to go in the right path?
Why do I insist on living in darkness??
Why doesn't this Kafir see the light?
why o why?

Most of these stories are fabricated to drive up Muslim morale, no conversion happens on such flimsy reasons.

[Haresh]

Auz,

I don't believe that people are converting en masse. The growth is through birth rates only.

It is a demographic disaster for the Islamic world.

Europe is becoming increasingly anti-Islamic.
More attacks will happen in the west, there will be a backlash against them.

The West, eastern Europe, Russia, India, China and others are allies (yet to be formalised) against islam, because islam is against ALL.

As I always say to people and to moslems.

"THERE IS NOT ONE MOSLEM NATION ON EARTH THAT IS SELF SUFFIECIENT IN FOOD PRODUCTION AND CAPABLE OF CONTROLLING AND DOMINATING THEIR OWN AIRSPACE!"

Numbers mean nothing if you can't feed them.

[SBajwa]

by Auz
The biggest strength of Islam, in my opinion, is its girls. Muslim Girls! There are approximately 700-800 million Muslim girls all over the world. This is the game changer, the core of Islamic Civilization and its global spread. Muslim girls are generally way more practicing than Muslim guys..Even in my university, Muslim girls will be way ahead of Muslim guys in setting up Islamic events, spreading Islamic information and knowledge on campus, and so on. They wear Hijab and uphold their Islamic identity above everything else. And these Muslim girls are also future mothers of Muslims..so when a new baby in born, it stays under the watch of mothers most of the time. And since Muslim girls are 'Islamic', they pass down Islam to their new generation..and this cycle goes on. That is why, with time, Christianity died in West and became irrelevant..That didn't happen to Islam. Islam exerts significant influence wherever it exists..

You really think that the people born out of the inbreeding will keep on increasing? Islamic countries do not have any census information, any disease information and most of what they have is to "increase their prestige" among the rest of the world, i.e. False Information.

Bottom line is that eventually the tipping point will come when due to inbreeding they will be finished. Instead of focusing on their women we should just tell them straight face that all of their problems are due to them not having enough Islam., they should continue to be more and more Islamic. That's all! They day they start emulating Prophet (who married his own first cousin) it will be good for us.

We should educated our non-muslims friends about Islam so that they do not convert.