Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism

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pradeepe
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Post by pradeepe »

enqyoob wrote:Gentlefolks: Serious question onlee.

USAToday circa last Tuesday (June 25 - 27) carried a full-page glorification by some 0.001-wit, of the Kashmiri-terrorist-ambassador to the US, who leads Ethan Allen. All about his $5M residence in Noo Yoik, and how he had shown the media the "truth" about Kashmir.

One of the items from his story is that his wife's son went to Afghanistan and became shaheed in 1992.

Could u pls find good sources that establish on which side he was fighting? Or, in what capacity he was in Afghanistan? My guess is that he was with the Pakiban, but how to find verification of that?
This must be the story.
Here's the link

Here's a nugget from in there -
Kathwari grew up in Kashmir, located between India and Pakistan, the son of a politician/lawyer and grandson of an antiques dealer.
I see that must be something like:
Mr. Bush grew up in Crawford, Texas, located between USA and Mexico, the son of a politician....
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Post by Sriram »

One Link

Earlier BRF Discussion around Feb2007

#2: Author: Kakkaji, PostPosted: 07 Feb 2007
—
PBS Evening News with Jim Lehrer has started a program about impact of Globalization. In the first segment that was aired yesterday, they interviewed Farooq Kathwari of Ethan Allen. Showed his biography saying he is from 'Kashmir which is a territory claimed by both India and Pakistan', although I'm sure he is from the Indian side of the LOC since nobody who grew up on the Pakistani side would have the smarts to become the CEO of Etahn Allen.

They discussed impact of globalization on the 'Kashmiris'. Kathwari said they are now more aware of their rights and are fighting 'oppression'. Said they watch the world on TV, and want to have the same rights and lifestyle as the people they see on TV (as if they will have any rights if they join TSP Rolling Eyes ).

One interesting factoid they mentioned on the program. Kathwari's 19-year old son died 'fighting in Afghanistan' in 1992. For PC reasons they didn't mention which side he was fighting on. Kathwari says the loss of his son has made him realize that conflict cannot solve problems. Therefore he supports dialogue and understanding. Rolling Eyes

What the viewers and interviewers need to realize that in Jihadi and Jihad sympathizers language, the meanings of 'oppression' and 'Justice' are inverted. 'Oppression' is when the Jihadis cannot impose their will and their law on Kafirs. 'Justice' is done when the believers can impose Sharia and Jaziya on unbelievers.
#3: Author: Shalav, PostPosted: 07 Feb 2007
—
I thought I read somewhere that his brat was shahidized in J&K! He says it was in Afghanistan to maintain his business links within India. Maybe I recall it wrongly?!

#13: Author: Sri K, Location: US of A PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007
—
Kakkaji:

Your post proves conclusively that Farooq Kathwari is lying about his son. If his son went to Afghanistan after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, i.e., in the 1991-92 time frame, then he couldn't have gone to fight the Soviets. The Soviets had pulled out in 1989!

AFAIK, in this period, the Arab volunteers were basically either hanging out in Peshawar or were going back to their native countries, if they could. OBL was cooling his heel in Saudi and thinking about his next move.

The Muj factions were fighting each other in Afghanistan in this period, and few external volunteers would have been interested in that. OTOH, Kashmir jihad was revving up. So, it is likely that Kathwari's son had gone to take part in KAshmir jihad, a fact he now prefers to conceal.

QED
#14: Author: Kakkaji, PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007
—
Mushy and his western friends talk about poverty and economic deprivation driving people to terrorism. What poverty did Kathwari's son face?

He was in Harvard Medical School (how do you get admitted there at age 19? ) for crying out loud.

Kathwari is a snake in the grass.

What bothers me is that rich Pakis like Kathwari create a 'Kashmir Study Group', and pay someone like Frank Wisner to lobby for their cause. There are 100 times as many rich Indians in the US and UK. Some I know in Atlanta organize 'South Asia Peace Meets' where they invite Pakis and Paki-supporting Goras to trash India, and Moni Basu ('India's weird property-ownership laws have forced me not to take US citizenship for which my heart bleeds' ) to report on the event.
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Post by SSridhar »

enqyoob wrote:Gentlefolks: Serious question onlee.

Could u pls find good sources that establish on which side he was fighting? Or, in what capacity he was in Afghanistan? My guess is that he was with the Pakiban, but how to find verification of that?
Google throws up a lot. However, there is confusion regarding Irfan, the son of Farooq Kathwari.

Praveen Swami (the well-informed Hindu reporter) says he was killed in an Afghan training camp.

This one talks about being killed in Kashmir by Indian soldiers

BusinessWeek talks about him being killed in one of the last battles for Kabul

If the last battle for Kabul is to be counted, then he was most probably fighting in the unit of Gen. Ahmed Shah Masoud or Gen. Abdul Rashid Dostum since they were the ones who took Mazar-e-Sharif in March and then Dostum moved towards Kabul by April, 1992.

It was an internecine war at that stage and it is highly unlikely that they would have involved others.

Most probably therefore, Kathwari's son died fighting in Kashmir and Farooq is fudging that issue claiming he died in Afghanistan fighting a non-existent jehad in 1992. Jehad had ended by Dec 1989 with the pull-out of the FSU forces.
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

If he was fighting for Kabul in 1992, wasn't he probably in what became the Taliban/ Al Qaida?

Osama bin Laden was the one sending the "fighters" into Afghanistan from the ISI-run safe house in Peshawar. So it is logical and legitimate to conclude that Kathwari's wife's son was part of Osama's gang, funded by Kathwari/ Ethan Allen.

No wonder he doesn't want to say on whose side Terrorist Jr was fighting.

Also, the USAToday article says that India cancelled his passport. His family left for the US in 1965. Isn't the link obvious? The fellow was part of the Paki terrorist gang in Kashmir, when Ayub sent in the "infiltrators" most of whom got killed by the locals.
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Post by SwamyG »

although I'm sure he is from the Indian side of the LOC since nobody who grew up on the Pakistani side would have the smarts to become the CEO of Etahn Allen.
Let us not give too much or too little credit to the enemies, but let us acknowledge that there can be people with "smarts" through out this world and even with the enemy. There are dumb folks in our netalok too.
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

SwamyG: Thanks for the sage advice. I am sure Sridhar needed that wisdom. :roll:

Under one of the links posted by Sridhar is this gem that shows where funding for the USA TRoday "puff-piece" came from: See
Irfan Kathwari Foundation Funds PBS Islam Puff-Piece


Apparently that was about a similar "puff-piece" on PBS about the glory of Islamic terrorism. It is pretty clear that Kothari's wife's son was killed while launching a terrorist attack in Kashmir. So the best bet is that he was part of Lashkar-e-Toiba or Jaish-e-Mohammed as one of the other articles says. Nothing at all to do with the Battle for Kabul - he was fighting for Pakistani terrorist groups associated with the Al Qaida in 1992.

Ethan Allen's links to foreign terrorist groups needs to be highlighted. Apparently they supply furniture to the White House.... wonder if they are developing "hot seats"?
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Post by CRamS »

pardon my ignorance but isn't Farooq Katwari's wife's terrorist son also Farooq Katwar' terrorist son?
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Post by arun »

Three Pakistani's arrested for the botched Glasgow/London terrorist attacks :
Woman held in terror investigation

Publisher: Ryan Davies
Published: 01/07/2007 - 16:06:46 PM

A fifth arrest was made in Liverpool. Photo: Martin Rickett/PA wire

A woman is among those being questioned over the nationwide terror alert, it emerged today.

The 27-year-old was arrested with a 26-year-old man on the M6 last night and they are being interviewed at a central London police station, Scotland Yard said.

The development came as the country remained on its highest state of alert after three failed car bombings in London and Glasgow.

Police have linked an attempt to ram a blazing Jeep Cherokee into Glasgow Airport yesterday to the discovery of two car bombs in the capital\'s West End on Friday.

Two men inside the Jeep were arrested at the airport, though one of them suffered severe burns after being engulfed in flames and is now in a critical condition in hospital.

Anti-terror officers from the Met and West Midlands Police later made the arrests on the M6 near Sandbach in Cheshire.

Today it was confirmed that a fifth arrest had been made, this time in Liverpool.

Scotland Yard said a 26-year-old man was held and two properties in the Liverpool area were being searched.

A large number of police descended on a house in a street just off Penny Lane in south Liverpool.

Officers were also searching a number of houses in the village of Houston, near Glasgow Airport, in connection with the attack there.

The Government yesterday raised the national terror threat level to "critical", its highest level, meaning an attack is expected "imminently".

Prime Minister Gordon Brown warned today that the threat to Britain was "long-term and sustained".

He said Britain\'s message to the terrorists must be: "We will not yield, we will not be intimidated and we will not allow anyone to undermine our British way of life."

In his first broadcast interview since becoming PM on Wednesday, he said it was "clear" that the attacks in London and Glasgow were perpetrated by people who were associated with the global Islamist terror network al Qaida.

He urged the public to continue "living their lives as normal" and pledged: "Everything is being done in our power... to protect people\'s lives".

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith today chaired a meeting of the emergency contingencies committee Cobra, and told reporters outside the Home Office she had been updated on the latest security situation.

She thanked police and the emergency services for their "continued hard work" over the last 24 hours and confirmed she would make a statement to MPs in the House of Commons tomorrow.

The Jeep was driven into the main doors of the airport before bursting into flames at about 3.15pm yesterday.

Part of the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Paisley was evacuated yesterday after the arrival of one of the men arrested at the airport when a "suspect device" was found on his body.

But Strathclyde Police denied reports this device was a "suicide vest" after having it examined by explosives experts.

Meanwhile travellers started flying in and out of the airport again.

The first flights touched down almost 17 hours after the terrorist attack, shortly before 8am.

A spokesman for BAA Glasgow said 20 flights in and out had been cancelled so far today.

Liverpool John Lennon Airport was also closed overnight while police investigated a suspicious vehicle.

It was taken away for forensic examination and the airport was reopened at 4.40am, Merseyside Police said.

The rest of Britain\'s airports will stay open until further notice with a heightened police guard.

Most are bolstering security by closing off roads leading to the terminal buildings.

The Glasgow attack followed the discovery of two cars loaded with explosives in London\'s busy West End early on Friday morning.

The first, a Mercedes packed with a deadly cargo of petrol, gas canisters and nails, was found by paramedics called to the Tiger Tiger nightclub shortly before 2am after a person was taken ill.

The ambulance crew spotted smoke inside the car and immediately called police.

Sources suggested one of the first officers on the scene averted disaster by disconnecting a mobile phone in the car which may have been used to trigger the explosion.

The second car, also a Mercedes, was issued with a parking ticket in Cockspur Street, just yards from the first vehicle, at about 2.30am.

It was taken to a car pound off Park Lane by Westminster Council at around 3.30am.

Workers at the compound were immediately suspicious of the car because it had a strong smell of petrol. But it was not until later when they heard about the news of the first car bomb they contacted authorities.

Extra officers are being deployed to the capital\'s landmarks and main train stations, as well as Heathrow Airport and London City Airport, Scotland Yard said.

People attending today\'s memorial concert for Diana, Princess of Wales, at Wembley Stadium were warned to expect delays because of more thorough searches.

About 450 officers were on duty to police the event.

Neighbours at an address stormed by armed police last night in Liverpool told of their shock at the raid.

Rachal Tansey, 27, a student who has just qualified as a barrister, lived over the road from the house raided in Ramiles Road in south Liverpool.

Miss Tansey said: "It was about 1am when I heard dogs barking, and I left it for a while and just hoped they would quieten down, but they didn\'t."

"I looked out of the bathroom window and saw men with big guns, and they barged into number 80. There was a bit of a commotion. It was shocking, I kept backing off from the curtains and the police helicopter was overhead. I saw at least four officers in dark clothing."

Miss Tansey said she didn\'t know the people who lived at the address, though the area is heavily populated with students and Asian people, with a mosque on a neighbouring street.

She added: "I\'m shocked at what\'s going on, you don\'t expect it to be happening outside your own home."

Declan Murphy, 22, from Buncrana, County Donegal, was with a group of students in a house at the top of the road.

He looked out of the window when he heard dogs barking.

"There was a man with a gun outside the window and I panicked," said Mr Murphy, a student at John Moores University.

"At first I thought it was something to do with drugs then the whole Glasgow thing came to mind and we thought it must have been terrorism."

Mr Murphy said he saw eight or nine policemen with guns and a helicopter was hovering overhead. There were also police dog vans.

Melissa Heywood, 21, from Buxton, studying teaching at the same university, who was also in the house, added: "I saw policemen outside the house with guns. They seemed to cover each other going to and from the house pointing their guns at the front door and the upper window. They were positioning themselves behind a jeep."

"It\'s almost like they were trying to think about how to get into the house."

Police officers told them to stay indoors and the operation carried on for a number of hours.

The students believe two Asian men lived at the address and they heard a commotion in the alleyway at the back of the property.

Police also raided a second house on Hatherley Street in Toxteth.

Haroon Samad, 56, who lives next door to the house, said: "I heard a noise about midnight last night, a policeman shouting \'Come out with your hands up\'."

"The police were in uniform and armed."

"I saw four people, the men who live at the house, come out with their hands up, and walk calmly towards the police car on the other side of the road. Another police car was stationed at the top of the road."

"All the lads who live there are in their 20s. Three are from Pakistanand one from the Yemen."

"They said they were students."

"The policeman later knocked on my door to apologise for the disturbance. He said later that they had been set free, and are no longer being held."

Mr Samad said all the men attended the mosque at the top of the street.

Copyright - Press Association 2007
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

pardon my ignorance but isn't Farooq Katwari's wife's terrorist son also Farooq Katwar' terrorist son?


U r pardonned, dear Pradeep. At BRF v r very careful about our facts, with standards born of the fine traditions of the Pakistan Enlightened Nuclear ... threads, and only state that which is reasonably assumable to be correct. We don't make other assumptions since we do not wish to offend anyone. Just being careful... remember that v r talking about someone hu is Pakistani in attitude and loyalties, if not in actual birthplace.

Hope that clears up the confusion...
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Post by Kakkaji »

SwamyG wrote:
although I'm sure he is from the Indian side of the LOC since nobody who grew up on the Pakistani side would have the smarts to become the CEO of Etahn Allen.
Let us not give too much or too little credit to the enemies, but let us acknowledge that there can be people with "smarts" through out this world and even with the enemy. There are dumb folks in our netalok too.
SwamyG:

I am the original author of that statement, and I stand by it. Name one Paki that has built a Fortune 500 level company anywhere in the world (Illicit drug syndicates do not count). :)
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Post by Kakkaji »

enqyoob wrote:
pardon my ignorance but isn't Farooq Katwari's wife's terrorist son also Farooq Katwar' terrorist son?


U r pardonned, dear Pradeep. At BRF v r very careful about our facts, with standards born of the fine traditions of the Pakistan Enlightened Nuclear ... threads, and only state that which is reasonably assumable to be correct. We don't make other assumptions since we do not wish to offend anyone. Just being careful... remember that v r talking about someone hu is Pakistani in attitude and loyalties, if not in actual birthplace.

Hope that clears up the confusion...
:rotfl:

It should be mandatory for all new members of BRF to only read the P.E.N.I.S. and ReR threads for 6 months before they are allowed to read and post on other threads.

But seriously, Kathwari's perfidy against India is multi-faceted. IIRC, one of the leading lights of the NPA community (Michael Krepon I think) who has been in the forefront in the news media against the Indo-US nuke deal is employed by a foundation that was started, and is funded, by Farooq Kathwari. I suspect that through his funding, Kathwari's tentacles run deep within the US political system.
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Post by JCage »

Kakkaji

If his son was indeed killed by Indian troops and that too fighting for the jihadi cause...is there any wonder that his father will continue to do his utmost to hurt Indian interests?

As a sidenote- I have given up on J&K. The only solution for J&K is a roman solution. And that no GOI will ever implement. Having been to Kashmir, I have seen the beauty of Islamism in action, all disguised under a dollop of sufi-ism/ Kashmiriyat or whatever puff piece it is passed off as. They only appreciate the stick. The harder the wielder, the more heartfelt the respect. Sad, but true.
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Post by Kakkaji »

JCage wrote:Kakkaji

If his son was indeed killed by Indian troops and that too fighting for the jihadi cause...is there any wonder that his father will continue to do his utmost to hurt Indian interests?
True. And yet I wonder how many 'India Associations' in the US are inviting this guy as featured speaker on the topic of 'Peace in South Asia'. :x

And weren't some of the functionaries of GOI, perhaps that Wajahat guy, giving importance to this guy when he was peddling the 'Kathwari solution' to the Kashmir problem?
Having been to Kashmir, I have seen the beauty of Islamism in action, all disguised under a dollop of sufi-ism/ Kashmiriyat or whatever puff piece it is passed off as. They only appreciate the stick. The harder the wielder, the more heartfelt the respect. Sad, but true.
That is true everywhere: Kashmir, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Middle East, UK, France. Islamism can only be controlled with a stick, not carrots.
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Post by pradeepe »

enqyoob wrote:
pardon my ignorance but isn't Farooq Katwari's wife's terrorist son also Farooq Katwar' terrorist son?


U r pardonned, dear Pradeep. At BRF v r very careful about our facts, with standards born of the fine traditions of the Pakistan Enlightened Nuclear ... threads, and only state that which is reasonably assumable to be correct. We don't make other assumptions since we do not wish to offend anyone. Just being careful... remember that v r talking about someone hu is Pakistani in attitude and loyalties, if not in actual birthplace.

Hope that clears up the confusion...
Very nice. I knew there was something when you referred to him twice that way. It wasnt me who asked the question, but I'll take the education :).

Kakkaji, not a brand new member. Lurked from Kargil days. Will not forget.

Btw, I am still trying to figure out your previous avatar :).
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

"Kathwari Solution" = "Kashmir Forum" solution = "Kashmir Researchers" solution" = "Kashmir - The Way Forward" = "Kashmir - Beyond the Blame Game" = "Hand Over Kashmir Valley to Pakis, Plus Most of the Rest" = "Hindus, Run Away for Your Lives But Leave Your Daughters Behind".

We know from the Pakistani Press (La'Hore Daily Crimes, no less) that the Kashmir Forum etc. were organized in ISI HQ, Islamabad, for the ISI, and even the list of invitees and speakers was prepared in ISI HQ.

Ghulam Nabi Fai, Akhila Ra(h)man, Mansoor Ijaz, Hafeez Saeed, Mostafa Omar, all part of the same bloody gang.

Now we know that Kathwari's wife's son was a Lashkar-e-Toiba or Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist, thankfully converted to fertilizer swiftly. Imagine if the bugger had returned, graduated from Hahvahd Med School and gone on to be another Dr. Al Zuwahiri. Direct "Kashmiri" link to the very top of Al Qaida. Maybe that's why the Lashkar themselves shot him and said the Indian Army - or the Afghan Army - had done it.

Now it seems clear that Ethan Allen Inc is the US HQ of Al Qaida - they sell chairs to the White House!!!! So good ol' Dubya sets his Presidential Seat on an Al Qaida -supplied chair which probably records and transmits all his utterings from both ends straight to ISI HQ and Osama Bin Laden. And the megabucks that the White House pays Ethan Allen for furniture goes straight to the Al Qaida to buy RDX to put in the vests of the Pakis to go "boom" in London and Glasgow and Baghdad and Srinagar and Kabul.
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

deja vu
An early profile of the attackers is developing. Investigators now believe they are foreigners of Middle Eastern or Pakistani descent. They say the bombers were likely motivated by al Qaeda, but still have not established an operational link.

"Because it failed, it's unlikely that al Qaeda will want to claim responsibility for something that has been botched," said Sajjan Gohel, a security analyst. "But what we do know that all the major plots since March 2004 have a connection to al Qaeda hierarchy in Pakistan."


Eh, bro, all murderous plots since Aug. 14, 1947 have a connection to Pakistan...
Both vehicles in the thwarted London attacks contained cylinders of propane gas, containers of gasoline, nails and in at least one case was rigged to sophisticated detonators.

The Jeep that attempted to crash and turn into a fireball inside a Glasgow airport was said to contain both propane cylinders and gasoline. However it did not appear to have a remote detonator or any nails, police, officials and ABC sources said.

Based on forensic evidence, the occupants of the Jeep may have intended to martyr themselves. However, reports that one of the men was wearing a "suicide belt," if taken to mean an explosives belt, are inaccurate. The person was not wearing any explosive belt or vest.

According to security sources, the occupants of the car set it on fire after hitting a security barrier at the entrance to the Glasgow terminal.

These sources said the reason that one man received burns to 95 percent of his body was that he was pouring gasoline on and under the Jeep, and when he ignited it, the flames spread up to the remaining gasoline he carried.
Wow! These guys must be British-raised Pakis. No other way to explain the combination of Gaandooness and sheer brilliance.
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Post by Prem »

SwamyG wrote:
although I'm sure he is from the Indian side of the LOC since nobody who grew up on the Pakistani side would have the smarts to become the CEO of Etahn Allen.
Let us not give too much or too little credit to the enemies, but let us acknowledge that there can be people with "smarts" through out this world and even with the enemy. There are dumb folks in our netalok too.
The onlee thing we should discsuss about him if he has another son ready to do jihad on us Infidels, preferably in Indian Kashmir .
He is not snake but a rat. No Indian should ever buy the over price furniture from Ethan Allen.
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Post by Sanjay M »

Yes, go for modern-looking IKEA instead.
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Post by SwamyG »

Kakkaji wrote: I am the original author of that statement, and I stand by it. Name one Paki that has built a Fortune 500 level company anywhere in the world (Illicit drug syndicates do not count). :)
I have no desire to bat for the enemies. All I am saying is that there are smart people all around. They might not have CEOs running F500 companies, but they have shown the ability to keep troubling us for the last 60 years.

Just stating the obvious onlee :oops:
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Post by SSridhar »

enqyoob wrote:It is pretty clear that Kothari's wife's son was killed . . .
A lot of difference between Kothari and the fox whose wife's son we are discussing :)
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Post by Vivek_A »

SwamyG wrote: the ability to keep troubling us for the last 60 years.
So has cancer, AIDS, malaria etc etc.
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

As the famous saying goes,
Greenberg, Iceberg, what's the difference? YOU're the one who sank the Titanic!


Sorry, the terrorist's umma's husband is Kathwari not Kothari.

:oops:
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Post by aditya »

Hain? I know this is out of wikipedia, but can our yehudi bhailog or someone explain what this is about?

Some of Farooq's puraskars...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farooq_Kathwari

[quote]2005 Honoree from the International Center in New York; “National Human Relations Awardsâ€
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Post by Rangudu »

Link
China demands 20 insurgents hiding in Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: The Chinese government has requested Islamabad to hand over more than 20 Chinese insurgents hiding in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, Foreign Ministry sources said.

Sources said the Chinese authorities had claimed that more than 20 activists of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, an Islamist militant outfit fighting for an independent East Turkestan in China’s Xinjiang province, were hiding in the tribal areas. They have requested the Pakistani authorities to arrest and hand over the militants, sources added.

Foreign Office spokeswoman Tasneem Aslam refused to confirm the report. She said she was not aware of any such appeal. She added that Pakistan had been cooperating with more than 150 countries, including China, to eliminate terrorism.
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Post by Rangudu »

Link

[quote]Taliban leader pardoned

KHAR: Authorities on Thursday pardoned a Taliban leader with suspected links to Al Qaeda after he renounced terrorism and pledged loyalty to the government.

Maulvi Faqir Mohammad agreed not to participate “in any terrorist activity in the country and pledged support to the government in defending the country’s borders,â€
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Post by Rangudu »

The Times of London says that the terror road needs to be closed. Where do you think the road goes to?

[quote]We must act now to close this terror trail

Brown boasts that he is a serious man; this is his chance to show itTim Hames

A few months ago, while in conversation with a prominent political ally of Gordon Brown, I asked him what he thought would ultimately be his man’s election slogan; what form of words would best distinguish him from David Cameron. After a few seconds contemplation, he replied: “Something on the lines of ‘a serious man for serious times’, I suppose.â€
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Post by SSridhar »

US take on UK terror threats

TSP's reputation to the fore.
[quote]Officials in Washington said that one angle investigators are pursuing is the possibility that the attacks in Britain had their origins not in Pakistan’s tribal areas, where most large-scale Al Qaeda attacks are believed to be hatched, but inside Iraq.

“At this point, the needle seems to be pointing more toward Iraq than Pakistan, but we’re still in the very early stage,â€
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Post by Sumeet »

Don't fault Pak for violence in Valley: Patil

NEW DELHI: On the eve of talks between the home secretaries of India and Pakistan, home minister Shivraj Patil gave Islamabad an escape route, particularly on infiltration in J&K which has increased substantively in the past few months.

Patil told reporters in Srinagar, "We should not blame Pakistan for every wrong thing...increase in infiltration and spurt in violence here."

On increase in infiltration from across the border, agencies quoted Patil as saying, "We are not in the process of blame game. We are trying to understand and complement each other."

His comments struck a sour note, coming a day before Indian and Pakistani officials are expected to thrash out the issue of infiltration in the composite dialogue. In the absence of a meeting on the anti-terror mechanism, India is expected to use these talks to sound out its growing concern on terrorism.

The Pakistan delegation will be led by interior secretary Syed Kamal Shah and include senior foreign ministry officials, director-general (South Asia) Aizaz Ahmed and director (India) Zaheer Janjua. The Indian team will be led by home secretary Madhukar Gupta.

Government agencies are sure to look askance at the latest from Patil, who is considered by many to be gaffe-prone. His remarks are almost tantamount to accepting Pakistan’s disclaimer that it had nothing to do with well-trained jehadis sneaking in to wage the terror campaign against India.

Barely a week ago, defence minister A K Antony said the rise in infiltration was "a matter of concern". In many places, terrorists were cutting the fence to come through. "The continuing infiltration is of concern to us. We are taking sufficient precautions to prevent it," Antony said recently as government turned down a demand from Mufti Mohammad Sayeed’s PDP for troop reduction in J&K.



Pak echoes Patil's remark on infiltration

NEW DELHI: Pakistan continues to be in the denial mode on terror. Amid growing evidence of the reluctance of its border patrols to prevent jehadis from crossing into India, Pakistan on Tuesday opted for the default disclaimer that it has no role in the influx.

The predictable stand came in the opening remarks of Pakistan's interior secretary Syed Kamal Shah at the secretary-level talks here. Shah is believed to have told his Indian counterpart Madhukar Gupta that his country had no role in the growing jehadi traffic across the border.

Though he said that Islamabad was ready to cooperate with New Delhi in its fight against terrorism, the denial confirmed the estimate of the authorities here that Pakistan, notwithstanding professions to the contrary, is not ready to change its terror stripes yet.

Significantly, Shah's remarks came close on the heels of home minister Shivraj Patil's reported statement where he seemed to absolve Pakistan of direct responsibility in the infiltration.

"We should not blame Pakistan for every wrong thing... increase in infiltration and spurt in violence here," Patil was quoted by an agency report from Srinagar.

The Pakistani security forces' action against fundamentalists in the Lal Masjid area in Islamabad on Tuesday too figured in the discussion.

Shah seized upon the action — taken most grudgingly and only because of the ultimate provocation by the madrassa in abducting Chinese nationals — to call it as representing his country's tough approach towards extremists.

He proclaimed, "Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism and the country has always been against such acts."

It seems Patil had set the tone for the talks by expressing his views and the Indian approach in as many words as the officials who took up the issue, said sources, tried to raise various contentious issues very carefully. Whether it was the issue of infiltration or deportation of wanted criminals in Pakistan, the Indian delegation tried to put it across in a manner which gave an impression of complete bonhomie.

The Indian side took up the deportation issue in the garb of Interpol references against criminals but took care not to take Dawood Ibrahim's name as Pakistan has never accepted his presence in its territory.

An official said, "Since an Interpol notice is pending against Dawood as well, the discussion on the issue meant his deportation also. It was not possible to take everybody's name during the discussion when the deliberations centred round all criminals hiding in Pakistan."

The bonhomie was also reflected by Shah's comment when he told reporters that the talks had proceeded in a positive and conducive environment.
enqyoobOLD
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

Despite the fine planning to conceal the Pakistani link, NONE of the bums went off, and someone made very sure that all the "perpetrators" were arrested - and voila! NO PAKISTAN LINK was revealed.

You see what I see? This is the second set of detonators on suicide bums that did not go boom. Glasgow jehadis THOUGHT they were committing suicide, but it turned out that they were set up too. Same with the two Mercedes cars conveniently smoking, with explosive packs and gas cylinders and gasoline cans or whatever inside, and a mobile phone ... but most of all, the SMOKE COMING OUT --- to alert the neighborhood.

Who ever heard of a properly constructed car bomb SMOKING for 30 minutes before igniting?

These people, terrorists as they might be, were set up.
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Post by Lalmohan »

enqoob

much as i like your hypothesis, we need to bear in mind the article in the pak thread that talks about FAE difficulty to ignite.

local cells seem to work very autonomously. the key is to find the code signal that said "go forth and terrorize on this date"
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Post by manjgu »

enqyoobOLD
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

See, if 5 out of 20 bums did not go off, I would agree. But here they are wasting entire cells and millions of $$ that could buy so much if they stayed in the Swiss bank accounts of the Paki Jarnails. I cannot believe that they are that incompetent. They have thousands of suicides' worth of experience from Israel, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Tanzania, Kenya, Yemen, Kashmir, Mumbai and Pakistan itself, to make such infantile errors so consistently.

So there are really two explanations to pursue:
1. These cells are completely autonomous, and get NO expertise in bum-making, and NO test facilities (meaning, you can't go into the countryside and test something). In this case, they are surely being set up.

2. They are totally penetrated, and the bum-makers include infiltrators. Incredibly brave, but far too much coincidence. After last July's second round, where nothing blew up, there must have been a frantic sweep to figure out what went wrong, and they would have made very sure that the same error did not occur again. So I have to rule out this option too.

Or else, the MI-5 etc have cornered the market on supplies of explosive, and they decide what quality to sell to what customer. The ones under surveillance, get the type that smokes but does not blow up, so that there is not that much risk in reaching inside a smoking car (whose windows are conveniently open for the smoke to go out and the policeman to reach in) and "disconnect the mobile phone".

I think this is the ISI demonstrating that "terrorism does not originate from Pakistan". They have way too much to lose if the British really get mad at Pakis - the bars of London are the standard retirement plan of the Paki dictators and their buddies, now that Los Angeles has become less Paki-friendly. I would say that Britain was on the verge of a total ban on visas to Pakis.
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Post by vina »

enqyoob wrote:I think this is the ISI demonstrating that "terrorism does not originate from Pakistan".
Diyar Enqyoob Saar,

Very dangerous thing to attempt to do, because there is no way anyone can cover their tracks 100%.. If the investigation leads to Pakistan as a mastermind, even in a round about way, their collective gonads will be in the wringer in UK.

However, see the latest Foot in the Mouth Syndrome For our Own Diyar Manmohan Singh.... If any further proof is needed that an Oxbridge PhD and a long babudom stint can leave your brains as mush, this is it!. If there is a bigger equal-equal and dhimmitude and south asianitis bundled in, I haven't seen it until now!

NDTV link UK Terror Probe, PM Speaks To Brown
Bureau Report
Thursday, July 5, 2007 (Brisbane/New Delhi)
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has spoken to British PM Gordon Brown regarding the failed terror attacks in London and Glasgow last week.

Eight people have thus far been held in the probe, including three Indians.

According to reports, Singh has assured the British leader that India will offer all cooperation in the terror probe.

[However, he has cautioned that labelling Indians and Pakistanis as terrorists is avoidable :evil: and that no hasty conclusions should be drawn on whether the arrested Indians are guilty.

Meanwhile, Mohammad Haneef, the Indian doctor held in Australia, is undergoing interrogation by the British counter-terrorism officer who arrived in Brisbane late on Wednesday night.

Haneef is being held in Brisbane by the Australian Police in connection with the failed London-Glasgow terror attacks.

The lady chief inspector from the Metropolitan Police's Counter Terrorism Unit is on a tight deadline, having a court order to detain Haneef without charge only until late Thursday.

Earlier, NDTV spoke with Jason Rawlin, the Brisbane reporter of ABC News, who said that time is really running out for the authorities to either charge or let Mohammed Haneef go.

In a related development, a media report has argued that the London bomb plot failed due to the malfunctioning of a medical syringe used as part of the firing mechanism.

Quoting non-classified documents reviewed by it, ABC News reported that mobile phones were to trigger a firing device in a Mercedes E 300 parked near a nightclub.

These mobiles reportedly failed to set off the blast.

Detectives are also questioning six people held in London, including another Indian doctor Sabeel Ahmed, whose identity was revealed only on Wednesday.

A seventh man arrested in Scotland after Saturday's attack on Glasgow airport remains ill in hospital with severe burns.

According to reports in the British media, Khalid Ahmed, who drove the jeep cherokee into Glasgow airport, is the brother of Dr Sabeel Ahmed.

However Sabeel Ahmed's family in Bangalore when contacted by NDTV has denied that Sabeel had any brother by the name of Khalid, but that he does have a brother whose name is Kafeel.

'Kafeel the bombmaker'

Along with the family's denial, there is more confusion about the identity of the man who drove the car into Glasgow airport, as the Daily Mirror in the UK names him as Kafeel Ahmad.

The Mirror also gives other interesting details about both the brothers, allegedly involved in the failed terror bid.

The Mirror report also says the police believe Kafeel Ahmed, a doctor of technology, is the maker of all three car bombs.

Kafeel studied for a PhD at Anglia Polytechnic University wrote papers about micro-fluid and listed skills including aerodynamic design and computer aided modeling.

Four of the doctors, who allegedly plotted and carried out the attacks - including Kafeel and Sabeel Ahmed, met in Cambridge in the summer of 2005, suggesting that the terror cell may have been formed then.

Kafeel Ahmed introduced his brother to both Mohammad Asha and Bilal Abdullah, two other doctors who were arrested.
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Post by abhischekcc »

The above report reminds of the word I had used for MMS earlier - Joker.
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Post by CRamS »

abhischekcc wrote:The above report reminds of the word I had used for MMS earlier - Joker.
You guys are coming around to what I have been saying. It is because MMS is batting for TSP that Mush has been temporarily holding back his scum from creating daily hara kiri like we used to see in the valley. Should MMS not deliver to his buddy Mush on this 'joint management' BS, you can bet Mush will conclude that his buddy is up to no good and will unleash the piglets once again. And Uneven Cohen in WP calls this a concession by Mush to save face. Mush has the entire current UPA establishment by its b@lls; deliver on Kashmir or else .... is his message. And the UPA govt is not at all averse to this 'joint management' thingy, South Asia equal equalitis etc. Its just that those in the beauracracy who really know TSP well (and their US and Chincom handlers) seem to hold steady so far. And of course, in international (western) parlance, those opposing such a sell out are "Hindu nationalist hardliners".
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Post by abhischekcc »

The Indian political leadership seems hostage to blackmailing.
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Post by sanjaykumar »

Dear Manmohanji

You can go down in the 5000 years of Inddian history as one of the greats if you stick to the economy-so what the phuck is this with labelling Pakistanis as terroists is avoidable?

And as a point of fact-it is demonstarbly unavoidable.
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Post by SSridhar »

Nowadays, everything is happening in the reverse only, much to the delight of our TSP brothers. I mean, there is reverse brain-drain into India. So, MMS got carried away after a phone call with Dubya and talked of reverse equal-equal only.
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Post by Sumeet »

well guys here is his exact statement quoted by indian express & he didn't take pakistan's name. Newspiece posted by vina is NDTV's interpretation.

Don't target any community: PM to UK
New Delhi, July 5: In the backdrop of detention of two Indians in connection with the failed terror plots in the UK, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh spoke to his British counterpart Gordon Brown and assured him all possible help in investigations.

Disclosing this, Singh cautioned against dubbing anybody or any country as a terrorist, saying if any community is targeted, it would create ‘new sets of grievances’.

"It is wrong to label any community or country. We have to look for solutions," Singh said in the wake of two Indians being held for their suspected involvement in the failed terror plots of London and Brisbane.

"If a particular community is targeted, it will create a new set of grievances," the Prime Minister told a group of women journalists during an interaction.

"We should not fix labels like muslims or non- muslims. It won't help us in understanding the situation or dealing with it. It is very stereotype to classify a person," he said.

The Prime Minister suggested that even if any one Indian is suspected of terror linkages, all Indians could not be dubbed as terrorists.

"A terrorist is a terrorist and he has no religion or community", he said.

Singh said there are misguided youth in any society and this was not any community specific. "As a Sikh, I understand the trauma (of being labelled)," he said.

The comments came in the backdrop of two doctors hailing from Bangalore -- Mohd Haneef and Sabeel Ahmed -- being held in connection with the UK terror plot. While Haneef has been detained in Brisbane, Australia, Sabeel was held in Liverpool, UK.

The Prime Minister has been perturbed by the trauma expressed by Haneef's family and has virtually been sleepless after seeing his mother airing her pain.
Same quotes attributed to MMS by ToI, Hindu:

Terrorists have no religion or community, says PM --- ToI

PM talks to Brown, assures help in terror plots probe -- Hindu

Don't stereotype Indians, emotional PM tells UK --- IBN Live
Last edited by Sumeet on 05 Jul 2007 20:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by ashish raval »

PM Singh is a coward communist living in his world far from reality.
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