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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2011 12:31 
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http://www.odinsvolk.ca/WhyAsatru1.htm

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Asatru is the ancient ethnic indigenous spirituality of the Germanic peoples. As a religion it preceeds Christianity by thousands of years, and is as old as this unique branch of humanity itself.

When the Germanic tribes appeared out of the Northern Scandinavian mist and fell upon Europe with fire and conquest they forever changed the course of history for the entire world. They brought terror. But they also brought a tradition of equality, tolerance and a new concept of a democratic society with a representative government that emphasized individual liberty and rights, the basic principles that would become the basis for English Law and judicial system, the Magna Carta, and the seeds of the American Revolution.

Our ancient ancestors were a bold and venturesome people. From Northern Germany, Holland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden they spread through the entirety of Europe in the several periods of vigorous expansion and migrations (AD 400-1150) known as the 'Migration Age' and the 'Viking Age'. Although they are primarily often thought of as barbarian raiders, the heathen Germanic peoples were also artists, traders, merchants, farmers, explorers, settlers and warriors. Our Germanic ancestors, through wide ranging migrations, settlements, trade and conquests gave rise to the English, Dutch, French, German, Swiss, Austrian, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, North Italic and Icelandic peoples and nations, who are all directly descended from this single ancient source. They also they left their indelible mark on the peoples and cultures of Ireland, Scotland, France, Spain and Italy, eastward to Russia and the Black Sea, and laid the foundation of many early Kingdoms and States in these lands and many others that still exist today.

They developed a ship so advanced that made the Baltic their own, and they were held in high regard by the Byzantine emperors whose Varangian guard was made up entirely of Viking warriors, they thumbed their nose at Charlemagne in the Mediterranean; they laid siege to Paris, and settled a large part of France that became known as Normandy; they conquered England and made it a Danish Kingdom; they colonized much of Ireland and founded all of the main cities there (Dublin, Cork, Limerick...) they settled in large numbers in Scotland, Iceland, the Hebrides and the Orkneys. They became the first European people to navigate the Atlantic Ocean where they discovered Greenland and North America, and even established several temporary colonies there.
They brought their traditions of individual rights and privileges with them in their new homelands. They left a legacy not only of archaeological remains, but also of family names, place names and fieldnames. Their "remains" can be found in local dialects and customs, in folk tales and oral traditions, and of course in the genetic make up of the local people themselves who are descended from this ancient source.

The religion of our ancestors consisted of several Goddesses and Gods, giving them a holistic and balanced view of equality between the sexes, this ancient traditional view permeated their society. The Northmen had a history of democracy stretching back well over a thousand years, to the beginning of the Iron Age, when various hardships caused the distinction between the classes to blur.

The Germanic peoples have a native, natural organic spiritual tradition of art, religion, mythology and magic unique unto themselves, which is embodied in Asatru. Asatru is a polytheistic, animistic, and shamanic form of spirituality. Contrary to Christian assertions, Heathens are not Godless; in reality, they believed in many Gods, Goddesses, and other spiritual beings. Our ancestors lived in harmony with the earth, which gave their spiritual nature a balanced, holistic view of the deities, which consisted of several Goddesses and Gods, each embodying the various cosmic aspects of physical, mental and spiritual being.

The ancient Goddesses and Gods are viewed as the root of our people, our most ancient family members and inspirational role models, honoured and revered for their gifts of the mind, body and spirit. We approach our Gods and Goddesses to honour them, never to grovel before them on our knees. They are our role models, inspirations, and even family, but never are they our masters nor are we their slaves. We hold our heads up high before our Gods, we do not bow or kneel before them when we call on them, nor do we surrender our human sovereignty to them. We do not pray and beg from them, sacrificing freedom for a handout.

Asatru is a living faith in which we each have the opportunity to form vital personal relationships directly with our deities. Although Heathenism is a personal religion without dogma, and the actual personal spiritual practices of Heathen-folk vary as widely as do the people themselves, there are some concepts Heathens hold in common: the belief that everything is alive, that the Earth is holy, that we can speak directly to our Gods and Goddesses, that we are responsible for our own souls and behaviour, that freedom, honour, duty, loyalty, love, hospitality and courage are our highest principles. Our Gods and Goddesses are benevolent, and are aligned against the forces of destruction. Heathens respect all life, and our spiritual texts teach us that we are connected to all creation. According to the laws of Örlög what we do comes back to us.

Asatru represents a return to the natural faith and traditional values of our people, the religion of our ancestors. These values of family, equality, human freedom, individuality along with our virtues of Courage, Truth, Honour, Fidelity (loyalty), Discipline, Hospitality, Self Reliance, Industriousness, and Perseverance are needed now more than even in in today’s challenging world.

Equality of the sexes is one of the more outstanding features of the values of our cultural inheritance. Women were very highly respected in ancient Germanic society as healers, mothers, priestesses and magic workers. Ancient Germanic women had equal rights to men and possessed substantial powers far beyond anything else found in the rest of the ancient world in particular as well as the modern world in general: They had the right to own and inherit property, choose who she wanted to marry ( or re-marry), and even initiate a divorce from her husband if she so wished.

Most women's lives were usually bounded by hearth and home, but they had great influence within this sphere. The keys with which many were buried symbolize their responsibility for, and control over, the distribution of food and clothing to the household. Most women would have been engaged in spinning and other textile production much of the time.There are even legends that tell of women warriors. Some women made their mark through exceptional status or achievement. One of the richest burials of Viking Age Scandinavia is that of the Oseberg 'queen', buried in a very grand style with a richly-decorated ship and large numbers of high-quality grave goods

Both farming and trading were family businesses, and women were often left in charge when their husbands were away or dead. Also evidence that Women also could have made a living in trade and business commerce. Merchants' scales and weights found in female graves in Scandinavia and other Germanic lands are evidence of a strong association between women and trade. Unfortunately, the Judeo basis of Christianity is very negative towards women. The Christianization of Germanic Europe & Scandinavia gave women new roles and reduced them to second class citizens in the view of the religion, stature in society, and in the eyes of the law.

The Germanic peoples also had a highly developed legal system, perhaps the most democratic in the ancient world. Decisions were reached by voting at open meetings where all free men had the right to speak.
These ideals are manifest most clearly in Iceland, a colony settled by heathen Norwegians that were being persecuted and killed by the Christian king Olaf Tyrggvasson. In Iceland an aristo-democratic government was developed. This government was based on the ancient Althing; the Germanic judicial and legislative body made up of the entire population of Iceland. Thirty-six chieftains whose authority rested on the voluntary allegiance of the individual free-holding farmers controlled the Althing. These people were so dedicated to their ideals of freedom and equality that in 1000AD they passed a law forever abolishing slavery in Iceland.

The Germanic peoples introduced the concepts of democracy and a trail by Jury consisting of twelve jurors. This guaranteed the adherence to the ancient laws as the members of the Juries were committed to these laws. In this way, the "law flowed from the people." The concept of the Jury was unlike anything that had been previously seen on the mainland.

Another notable contribution of the Vikings is to the English legal system. Today the English-speaking peoples all over the world are governed by English Common Law instead of Roman law. Christianity tried, but could not change the underlying structure and ethos of the Germanic peoples as they clung too stubbornly to their old ways.
The Germanic peoples are contributed with the creation of the House of Commons and its parliamentary system of government. For as the people were all considered equal, they all gathered together to aid in the decision making process.
There was a version of the althing in all other Germanic countries as well. However, the thing began to loose power as Christianity and Feudalism came to be dominating factor and power structure throughout continental Europe.

Through their representative government were laws were made, altered and acted upon, called the Althing, they had elected their Chieftain who were called kings. These kings were democratically chosen for their intelligence, capabilities and strength in battle and were followed only so long as they proved themselves worthy. After the Viking invasion, the English had also chosen their kings through a process in which the royal council chose the most suitable member of the royal family. Because of this system, the English did not reconcile the concept of Legitimacy until well after the Norman invasion. They believed that the king was not above the law, and that the King existed only to serve their people. If they were dissatisfied with the ruling king they had the option of replacing him. The Magna Carta was the result of this ideal of Kingship. The lords were dissatisfied with their king, and therefore created a treaty to limit his power. The ancient Danish Saga of Beowulf was written in the 5th century, speaks of this ideal. It talks of a King who "Heaped troubles on his unhappy people's heads." He had become so swelled with his own wealth and power that "He deserved to suffer and die." Over a millennium after these words were first written they were echoed by the revolutionary writings of John Locke in the Declaration of Independence.

The commitment to compromise was brought to England first by the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. Later, it was reinforced by the Viking settlers. Most court cases then ( and now) were settled by compromise. The accepted tradition of fines for crimes evolved into the system of lawsuits, which is prevalent in this country. As is England a thousand years ago, every injury done to another citizen can be repaid through money.

The Viking's laws and customs dovetailed neatly into almost forgotten Anglo-Saxon traditions because they were the same people removed by a few hundred years. Their language and culture was similar, although continental notions of feudalism had influenced the English.

Far from being merely primitive plunderers, conquerors and uncouth barbarians, in more recent years, researchers have been piecing together a more accurate and complex picture of our heathen Germanic ancestors that sharply contradicts the stereotype of uncivilized and unkempt barbarians. Farming, husbandry, and the first attempts at shipbuilding began 6,000 years ago. There was active commercial contact with Mediterranean countries 4,000 years ago, when Baltic amber began flowing south in exchange for copper and tin. Highly ornamented art, jewelry and crafts were important to early Germanic culture. They offer further evidence that they were not just warriors, they were farmers, artists, poets, shipbuilders, inventors and innovators. More than anything, they were excellent traders and explorers who connected peoples from Baghdad to Scandinavia to the mainland of North America.

Germanic art found its expression in everyday objects—in furniture, swords, belts, horse harnesses. The Germanic artists & craftsmen used indigenous motifs from their ancestral religion and passed it on to the Celts in to what is now commonly known as "Celtic" art but is actually called "Hiberno Saxon" art.

But the Germanic Vikings were also driven by their innate pioneering spirit. Their most spectacular trek took them across the Atlantic Ocean to Iceland, Greenland, and eventually North America. Around A.D. 1000, hundreds of years before Christopher Columbus arrived in the New World, the Vikings landed in Newfoundland, Canada, a land they reportedly named Vinland.

The Germans from the Vikings Age are best known for their sea voyages. Along the coasts of Western Europe, they traveled to the Mediterranean and North Africa. By way of the Russian rivers, they reached Constantinople (present-day Istanbul) and beyond to Baghdad in Asia.

The Vikings quickly developed a fierce reputation. In letters to their bishops, Christian priests in Britain and France chronicled the violent deeds of the Vikings, which included attacking wealthy monasteries and killing women and children. (Many churchmen believed the Viking raids were God's punishment on the Anglo-Saxons for their sins.) But it was also in the interest of the churchmen to exaggerate the atrocities of the Vikings in their reports. Many of the Christian rulers at the time behaved equally unpleasantly, without being condemned on religious grounds.
Since many of the people of the various Germanic Tribes were unable to write, much of their history was recorded by Roman historians, British and French clergy—the very people who fell victim to their raids. It is no wonder that the Vikings have a reputation for mindless savagery.

In sharp contrast to the God of the Judaic Based religions ( Christianity, Islam, Judaism), who demands that their followers submit and subjugate themselves with fear by being meek & subservient. Our native Gods and Goddesses want us to live life to the fullest, and be smart, strong, sexual, courageous and creative beings.

The values and teachings of our ancient Gods emphasize intelligence, freedom, courage, strength, vigorous actions, responsibility, loyalty, fruitfulness and family. So popular were they, their names were given to the days of the week that are still used today:
The Ancient Germanic Gods and the days of the week

Environmentalism and ecology is a natural & integral part of our native religion, whereas Christianity advises to " seek dominion over the Earth and all the creatures wherein" and seeks to treat the earth as something to be used and controlled, Asatru promotes the concept of living in harmony with the earth, our fellow creatures, and the spirits of the land as a sign of respect for the divinity flowing throughout nature. We recognized that innumerable spirits inhabiting everything from stones to trees. All in the cosmos is alive, and has some level of consciousness.

Our ancient religion is highly evolved, and is as rich in symbolism and moral teachings as the ancient Greeks. Christianity did not displace the native Germanic heathenism because it was better, but because Christianity was organized, centralized and had made the eradication of heathenism one of its main goals!

During the early Middle Ages most of Europe was organized and unified by the Roman Catholic Church, who had turned the teachings of Christ into a political tool and was attempting to recreate the Roman Empire.
The Christian Kings and missionaries preached Christianity to their neighbours with fire, sword and murder. Their goals were nothing short of converting, killing or driving out every heathen from their midst. By brutal acts of Coercion, murder, torture, and rape they forced Christianity upon the Germanic peoples , Literally hundreds of thousands of innocent men, woman and children were killed and horrible atrocities were committed. Babies were burned alive, young woman were raped and torched in the name of Christ.
Fortunately due to our ancestors’ stubborn refusal to fully give up their religion, it was never eradicated. The spirituality, culture, and values of our native religion have been directly continued up to this very day in many forms.
Asatru is a religion in revival as opposed to a reconstructed spiritual practice. Asatru is a living tradition and has been continued in many forms that are thoroughly heathen in origin and practice yet have managed to survive virtually intact and unchanged by hiding under a thin veneer of Christianity laid upon that saved it from total destruction. In fact, much of the traditional and popular aspects of our present culture in the Western world is derived from our heathen Germanic ancestors. Our Religious and Cultural inheritance is immense; The majority of people in the western world unwittingly still celebrate the Germanic heathen holy calendar virtually unchanged from its Heathen origins with all their symbols, meanings and trappings: From the "12 Days of Yule" and Santa Claus, to Easter and the rabbit, and the Thanksgiving Harvest feast, the Heathen holy tides have clung to the Anglo-Germanic world. We still use the names of the days of the week, We still speak English - a Germanic language. The principles and methods in our legal system of law, and the very ethic of our society, revering honour and sacrifice for the community are hallmarks of our ancient religions endurance. Whether one has seen Lord of the Rings or read Grimm's Fairytales, reveled in the exploits of Beowulf - the ancient religion has survived albeit relegated to Myth and Legend or absorbed into Christianity. The Poetic Edda and Sagas, and other the remnants of our lore, remain in spite of the thin veneer of Christianity in the European world.

In modern times Asa-folk place their trust in the Aesir and Vanir families of Gods, just as our Heathen ancestors did long ago. Many wonderful Sagas, songs and legends survive to inform the practice of modern Asatru. Heathens today often are quite educated about and interested in these surviving Heathen texts, such as the Icelandic Eddas and Sagas, for they give us insight into the historic practice of our religion.


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2011 12:34 
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from the same website, a background lesson on the Germanic peoples. it's a different point of view from the usual Western narrative. interesting read.

http://www.odinsvolk.ca/GermanicPeoples.htm


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2011 12:35 
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If you read the old testament bible, you`d realise there is much bigotry and hatred spred against peaceful Pagan people including encouragement to kill them and destroy their religion.

Monotheism is all about destroying other people`s religion and surplanting it with the one-angry-male-god theory.


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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2011 09:43 
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Parallels between Rome and America:

American/Roman Empire


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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2011 14:38 
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devesh wrote:
from the same website, a background lesson on the Germanic peoples. it's a different point of view from the usual Western narrative. interesting read.

http://www.odinsvolk.ca/GermanicPeoples.htm

Look at the tribe names. Almost Sanskrit, PIE origin.


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PostPosted: 30 Jul 2011 23:43 
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Michael Mitterauer, "Why Europe?: The Medieval Origins of Its Special Path"

Publisher: University Of Chicago Press | ISBN 10: 0226532534 | 2010 | 400 pages |

Quote:
Why did capitalism and colonialism arise in Europe and not elsewhere? Why were parliamentarian and democratic forms of government founded there? What factors led to Europe’s unique position in shaping the world? Thoroughly researched and persuasively argued, Why Europe? tackles these classic questions with illuminating results.
Michael Mitterauer traces the roots of Europe’s singularity to the medieval era, specifically to developments in agriculture. While most historians have located the beginning of Europe’s special path in the rise of state power in the modern era, Mitterauer establishes its origins in rye and oats. These new crops played a decisive role in remaking the European family, he contends, spurring the rise of individualism and softening the constraints of patriarchy. Mitterauer reaches these conclusions by comparing Europe with other cultures, especially China and the Islamic world, while surveying the most important characteristics of European society as they took shape from the decline of the Roman empire to the invention of the printing press. Along the way, Why Europe? offers up a dazzling series of novel hypotheses to explain the unique evolution of European culture.



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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2011 00:03 
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^^but there are also studies that try to connect "rye" with a particular fungus, and which in certain weather patterns increased the presence of psychotropic and hallucinogenic substances in the harvested grain. Such increases probably influenced mass hysteria connected to dramatic increases in accusations of black-magic and witchcraft causing many more burnings and lynchings and hangings.

Dunno - does he also consider that in his stride? Or why does Sado-masochism as part of "sexual repertoire" appear very early in European civilization - from Graeco-Roman times, and not really significantly in any other culture? Was that uniquely due to "rye" etc?


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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2011 23:17 
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John Darwin - The Empire Project: The Rise and Fall of the British World-System, 1830-1970


Publisher: Cambridge University Press; 1 edition (October 30, 2009) | Language: English | ISBN-10: 0521302080 | 814 pages

Quote:
The British Empire, wrote Adam Smith, 'has hitherto been not an empire, but the project of an empire' and John Darwin offers a magisterial global history of the rise and fall of that great imperial project. The British Empire, he argues, was much more than a group of colonies ruled over by a scattering of British expatriates until eventual independence. It was, above all, a global phenomenon. Its power derived rather less from the assertion of imperial authority than from the fusing together of three different kinds of empire: the settler empire of the 'white dominions'; the commercial empire of the City of London; and 'Greater India' which contributed markets, manpower and military muscle. This unprecedented history charts how this intricate imperial web was first strengthened, then weakened and finally severed on the rollercoaster of global economic, political and geostrategic upheaval on which it rode from beginning to end.




Now compare and contrast the British empire with Aemrican Imperium and see where the defects were.

I think it was in mistaking Pakistan for India by the US. They thought the martial races BS makes TSP the essential keystone to the new Imperium. With descent of TSP into failure by mid 90s, the American Imperium is also crumbling.


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2011 04:28 
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ramana wrote:



Now compare and contrast the British empire with Aemrican Imperium and see where the defects were.

I think it was in mistaking Pakistan for India by the US. They thought the martial races BS makes TSP the essential keystone to the new Imperium. With descent of TSP into failure by mid 90s, the American Imperium is also crumbling.

The original plan was that India would not exist but Pakistna would be largest state in the sub continent and would create a large geo graphic entity with a military which would serve the US in its world domination.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2011 05:23 
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http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... -3,00.html

Quote:
SPIEGEL: Where do you draw the boundary of the West?

Todd: In fact, only Great Britain, France and the United States, in that historic order, constitute the core of the West. But not Germany.

SPIEGEL: Are you serious?

Todd: Oh, it's fun to provoke a representative of "the German news magazine." What I'm saying is that Germany contributed nothing to the liberal democratic movement in Europe.

SPIEGEL: What about the Hambach Festival in 1832, the March Revolution in 1848, the national assembly in St. Paul's Church in Frankfurt, the 1918 November Revolution, the establishment of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1949, (former Chancellor Konrad) Adenauer's integration with the West and the opening of the Berlin Wall in November 1989 brought about peacefully by the people?

Todd: Okay, the postwar history is all very well and good, but it had to be put into motion by the Western Allies. Everything that happened earlier failed. Authoritarian government systems consistently prevailed, while democratic conditions had already predominated in England, America and France for a long time. Germany produced the two worst totalitarian ideologies of the 20th century. Even the greatest philosophers, like Kant and Hegel, were, unlike David Hume in England or Voltaire in France, not exactly beacons of political liberalism. No, Germany's immense contribution to European cultural history is something completely different.

SPIEGEL: And now you're going to say something nice?

Todd: The Reformation -- and, with it, the strengthening of the individual, supported by his knowledge -- and the spread of reading through the printing press -- that's the German contribution. The fight over the Reformation was waged in a journalistic manner, with pamphlets and flyers. The spread of literacy among the masses was invented in Germany. Prussia, and even the small Catholic states, had a higher literacy rate than France early on. Literacy came to France from the east, that is, from Germany. Germany was a nation of education and a constitutional state long before it became a democracy. But Martin Luther also proved that religious reforms did not by any means require the support of a spirit of liberalism.

SPIEGEL: But Germany's Sonderweg, or "special path," has now come to an end.

Todd: Well, I believe that the Germans still feel a secret and, at the same time, slightly narcissistic fear, as if they sensed that they are not quite part of the West. It seems to me that their preferred form of government is the grand coalition, not the abrupt change of power that occurs in France and the Anglo-Saxon countries. Perhaps Germany would rather be like a large Switzerland or a large Sweden, a consensus democracy in which the ideological camps come to resemble one another and the political extended family in the government takes care of everything.

SPIEGEL: What's wrong with that?

Todd: Nothing. The cultural difference between Germany and France shouldn't be buried under avowals of friendship. France is individualistic and egalitarian, at least far more so than Germany, where the tradition of the unequal, authoritarian tribal family still has an impact today, as in the debate over the right maternal image. Perhaps this also explains why Germany, despite its catastrophic birth rate, has so much trouble with immigration, and yet vastly outpaces France with its technical and industrial capabilities.

SPIEGEL: Does that mean that the German-French friendship is merely an illusion?

Todd: No, but the relationship is certainly shaped by an unspoken rivalry. However, if the European Union recognizes its diversity, even its anthropological differences, instead of trying to force everyone into the same mold with the false incantation of a shared European civilization, then Europe will also be able to treat the pluralism of cultures in the world in a reasonable and enlightened way. I'm not sure that the United States can do that.



good. some people are realizing.

read the last line; the comment about US "not being able to do that." very interesting indeed. the full implications of that line are explained in the preceding two sentences.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2011 09:25 
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Who is Todd? Sounds like a stuck up Anglo-Saxon. It was refrain from such toads that drove Germany to totalitarian systems.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2011 21:15 
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http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... -3,00.html

Emmanuel Todd, 60, studied political science in Paris and history in Cambridge. He has coducted research at the National Institute of Demographic Studies in Paris since 1984. Todd sees himself as an "empirical Hegelian" who recognizes a universal course of history. For Todd, family structures, population and educational policy factors are more important than the economic system. He has published many respected studies, such as "The Final Fall: An Essay on the Decomposition of the Soviet Sphere" (1976), "The Fate of Immigrants" (1994)," "The Economic Illusion" (1998), "After the Empire: The Breakdown of the American Order"(2002) and "A Convergence of Civilizations: The Transformation of Muslim Societies Around the World" (2007), about the changes in the Islamic world. An English translation of the book was published this month.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2011 21:24 
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Devesh, Earlier versions of Todd, in the 18th century used to disparage the Germans as Huns or tribals.

That led German intellegentia to the AIT to imagine a higher ancestry for the Germans and on to Hitler who wanted a new religion without the Semitic origins. So this Todd is continuing the Anglo-Saxon rivalry with the Germans.

Europe has two strands Latinised (Roman, Spanish, French, Anglo-Saxon, American) and Germanised (German, Austria, Russia). The history of Europe is the struggle between the two. The two sides are not cast in concrete but switch sides based on temporary advantage.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2011 21:38 
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^^^
Germany received a huge blow from '41-'45. 1000 years of gradual German immigration and settlement in East-Central Europe was overturned within a few years. Germany will *never* regain that edge and vibrancy again. their best hope is to try to rejuvenate their societies by combining the Germano-sphere countries into close cultural, social, and economic ties.


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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2011 21:40 
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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2011 22:30 
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brihaspati wrote:
^^but there are also studies that try to connect "rye" with a particular fungus, and which in certain weather patterns increased the presence of psychotropic and hallucinogenic substances in the harvested grain. Such increases probably influenced mass hysteria connected to dramatic increases in accusations of black-magic and witchcraft causing many more burnings and lynchings and hangings.

Dunno - does he also consider that in his stride? Or why does Sado-masochism as part of "sexual repertoire" appear very early in European civilization - from Graeco-Roman times, and not really significantly in any other culture? Was that uniquely due to "rye" etc?


Sado masochism, homosexuality, and pedophilia are all major sexual deviant behaviour is Europe's 'great' men, including Socrates and associates.


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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2011 22:37 
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Acharya wrote:
ramana wrote:



Now compare and contrast the British empire with Aemrican Imperium and see where the defects were.

I think it was in mistaking Pakistan for India by the US. They thought the martial races BS makes TSP the essential keystone to the new Imperium. With descent of TSP into failure by mid 90s, the American Imperium is also crumbling.

The original plan was that India would not exist but Pakistna would be largest state in the sub continent and would create a large geo graphic entity with a military which would serve the US in its world domination.


Not very well known, but it is Britain that is responsible for America's pakiphilia. Brits created pakistan (and Israel) to bookend Middle East and its oil wells. After WW2, they made a concious decision to turn over all their assets to US, and in turn got a very favourable influence in the American imperial court. They helped turn America away from India and towards Pakistan, and maintaining a unspoken hostility between US and India.


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2011 00:56 
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abhischekcc wrote:

Not very well known, but it is Britain that is responsible for America's pakiphilia. Brits created pakistan (and Israel) to bookend Middle East and its oil wells. After WW2, they made a concious decision to turn over all their assets to US, and in turn got a very favourable influence in the American imperial court. They helped turn America away from India and towards Pakistan, and maintaining a unspoken hostility between US and India.

Read Caroe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_Caroe

Quote:
After returning from India in 1947, he wrote extensively. His strategic ideas proved influential:
“ At about this time there were those in Washington, looking for ways to secure the oil resources and practice containment in the middle east. The formulations of Sir Olaf Caroe attracted attention and soon found favour in official circles. His article in the March 1949 number of Round Table and his 1951 book, Wells of Power, led to invitations from the state and defence departments to visit Washington.[4]

http://ehr.oxfordjournals.org/content/C ... 56.extract

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=11636


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011 01:11 
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X-posting:
In any connected graph - if all nodes connect to a single node over and above being connected to a few others, then depending on mutual dependence - that single master node gains importance above everything. If all needs satisfied through this master node, lateral edges get weakened. But if after that, the single edge connecting to the master node becomes weakened - the individual gets completely cut off.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011 02:08 
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X-posted...

Even though the modern West claims Judeo-Christian inheritance over a layer of Greco-Roman culture, the true roots are ancient Egypt and all its flaws of godly kings and empires. So try ot read this book and see how Ancient Egypt lives in the West.


Toby Wilkinson, "The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt"
Ran House | 2011 | ISBN: 0679604294, 0553805533 | 656 pages |


Quote:
In this landmark work, one of the world’s most renowned Egyptologists tells the epic story of this great civilization, from its birth as the first nation-state to its final absorption into the Roman Empire—three thousand years of wild drama, bold spectacle, and unforgettable characters.

Award-winning scholar Toby Wilkinson captures not only the lavish pomp and artistic grandeur of this land of pyramids and pharaohs but for the first time reveals the constant propaganda and repression that were its foundations. Drawing upon forty years of archaeological research, Wilkinson takes us inside an exotic tribal society with a pre-monetary economy and decadent, divine kings who ruled with all-too-recognizable human emotions.

Here are the years of the Old Kingdom, where Pepi II, made king as an infant, was later undermined by rumors of his affair with an army general, and the Middle Kingdom, a golden age of literature and jewelry in which the benefits of the afterlife became available for all, not just royalty—a concept later underlying Christianity. Wilkinson then explores the legendary era of the New Kingdom, a lost world of breathtaking opulence founded by Ahmose, whose parents were siblings, and who married his sister and transformed worship of his family into a national cult. Other leaders include Akhenaten, the “heretic king,” who with his wife Nefertiti brought about a revolution with a bold new religion; his son Tutankhamun, whose dazzling tomb would remain hidden for three millennia; and eleven pharaohs called Ramesses, the last of whom presided over the militarism, lawlessness, and corruption that caused a crucial political and societal decline.


Riveting and revelatory, filled with new information and unique interpretations, The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt will become the standard source about this great civilization, one that lasted—so far—longer than any other.



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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011 02:11 
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Local Egyptian museum has lot of researchers and was always curious why


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011 02:40 
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West traces origins from Atlantis. Egypt is eulogized as the first civilization of Atlanteans.

Very similar to the men of old from Numenor. It is a recurring theme.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011 03:11 
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Download this book free here


http://ebookee.org/The-Rise-and-Fall-of ... 36029.html

Quote:
The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt By Toby Wilkinson
Publisher: Ran dom Hou se 2010 | 672 Pages | ISBN: 0747599491 | EPUB + PDF | 7 MB + 15 MB



The story of Ancient Egypt and the extraordinary civilisation that flourished along the banks of the River Nile can seem like a gorgeous pageant studded with exceptional events. Among them are the building of the pyramids, the conquest of Nubia, Akhenaten's religious revolution, the power and beauty of Nefertiti, the life and death of Tutankhamun, the ruthlessness of Ramesses, Alexander the Great's invasion, and Cleopatra's fatal entanglement with Rome which led to the fall of Ptolemaic Egypt. But while three thousand years of pharaonic civilisation have all the ingredients of an epic novel - glittering courts, dynastic intrigues, murky assassinations and epic battles; individual stories of heroism and skulduggery, of triumph and tragedy; and, powerful women and tyrannical kings - the real historical story is even more surprising and far more interesting.

The Ancient Egyptians were the first group of people to share a common culture, outlook and identity within a defined geographical territory governed by a single political authority - concepts of nationhood that continue to dominate the planet. As the world's first nation-state, the history of Ancient Egypt is above all the story of the attempt to unite a disparate realm and defend it against hostile forces from within and without. In this magnificent history, Toby Wilkinson combines grand narrative sweep with detailed knowledge of hieroglyphs and the iconography of power, to reveal Ancient Egypt in all its complexity.

For the first time we see the relentless propaganda, the cut-throat politics, the brutality and repression that lay behind the appearance of unchanging monarchy as well as the extraordinary architectural and cultural achievements for which it is justly famous.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011 03:17 
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ramana wrote:
X-posted...

Even though the modern West claims Judeo-Christian inheritance over a layer of Greco-Roman culture, the true roots are ancient Egypt and all its flaws of godly kings and empires. So try ot read this book and see how Ancient Egypt lives in the West.


Toby Wilkinson, "The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt"
Ran House | 2011 | ISBN: 0679604294, 0553805533 | 656 pages |


Quote:
In this landmark work, one of the world’s most renowned Egyptologists tells the epic story of this great civilization, from its birth as the first nation-state to its final absorption into the Roman Empire—three thousand years of wild drama, bold spectacle, and unforgettable characters.

Award-winning scholar Toby Wilkinson captures not only the lavish pomp and artistic grandeur of this land of pyramids and pharaohs but for the first time reveals the constant propaganda and repression that were its foundations. Drawing upon forty years of archaeological research, Wilkinson takes us inside an exotic tribal society with a pre-monetary economy and decadent, divine kings who ruled with all-too-recognizable human emotions.

Here are the years of the Old Kingdom, where Pepi II, made king as an infant, was later undermined by rumors of his affair with an army general, and the Middle Kingdom, a golden age of literature and jewelry in which the benefits of the afterlife became available for all, not just royalty—a concept later underlying Christianity. Wilkinson then explores the legendary era of the New Kingdom, a lost world of breathtaking opulence founded by Ahmose, whose parents were siblings, and who married his sister and transformed worship of his family into a national cult. Other leaders include Akhenaten, the “heretic king,” who with his wife Nefertiti brought about a revolution with a bold new religion; his son Tutankhamun, whose dazzling tomb would remain hidden for three millennia; and eleven pharaohs called Ramesses, the last of whom presided over the militarism, lawlessness, and corruption that caused a crucial political and societal decline.


Riveting and revelatory, filled with new information and unique interpretations, The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt will become the standard source about this great civilization, one that lasted—so far—longer than any other.




Well there is a theory that Egypt was the birthplace of Mosaic philosophy, and given that there is some archeological support for "intolerance" of pre-existing polymorphic [I am deliberately avoiding polytheistic] Egyptian religion -from Akhenaten, and concentration on one "form" onlee, as imposed by the "God-king", or "representative" of god on earth, or the divine-voice through whom god revealed, or both the "son" of as well as "actual manifestation" of "God" on earth - could very well have given shape to Christianity.

The thing is they try desperately to fix "Atalantis" within the "Med", in Santorini specifically. Even the recent Spanish claim is strongly disputed. But the archeological timing etc then contradict the Atlantean origin of Egyptian civilization from Santorinian origins since that particular cataclysm happened around 1600 BCE, some 1500 years later than that agreed upon start date of the Egyptian experiment with civilization. So Plato is dissed as spinning a fable, or erring in believing Egyptian spin-doctor priests who wanted to show off claiming fantastic ancient origins like 10,000 BCE for the "floods" having swallowed the original homelands of the "gods".

Now there is a rival claim of the Atlantis being in the Andes with some good underlying arguments. But what is missed in all this is that at a time when far ocean travel or crossings are supposed to have been impossible - circa 10,000 BCE - and when there was no Santorini cataclysm, why would the "gods" come from distant lands to pick onlee on Egypt - since there would be many other spots to settle on. What was so specific to Egypt - not available anywhere else in the many ice-age refugia or newly-opening up or renewed flowing rivers for agricultural civilizations?

Isn't it likely that a maritime trading port based civilization can only survive with a network of similarly trading coastal port cities, and the place likely to have supported sucha civilization in close proximity to Egypt would be the Indian coasts of the Arabian Sea and Indian ocean? Given there are already indications of island/port based urbanization off the Indian western coasts which disappeared below the sea with rising waters from the post-glacial melt. What if Atlantis was an island port city off the western coasts of India! :P


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011 03:26 
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Just to add - I posted earlier that - ancient Egyptians appeared to have represented alphabet/glyphs without "vowels", so that it is now recognized that pronunciations of ancient Egyptian place names could be off the mark in modern usage. Extracting the original name given by Egyptians to the lower delta with "consonants" - I got k-r-m-t [karama(e)ti is the rough modern rendition] - which for me was close to "krisna-mrittika". Ironically apparently the name k-r-m-t actually stood for "black earth/soil". Similarly the upper more arid and red/desert area was called - d-r-s-t - and meaning red/dusty for me close enough to "dhusar-..".

We also had the idea from Parag ji - about the Sarai-Hagar symbolism. Which for me was also an indication of possible two communities from the mouths of Saraswati-Gharghara in conflict, migrating, putting roots in Egypt and returning as part of a maritime culture that linked western India and Egypt in the late glacial-post-glacial period.

I think we should explore the possibility of Atlantis in Gujarat or further down. Maybe an ancestral city of Ravana's folks! If it is unacceptable for the Med - they will have to disparage the whole concept of Atlantis, or accept Indian origins. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011 06:34 
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Is this why they say that rise of Indic will change the Anarya world for ever by unveiling the face of truth covered with Mlecchic Mithihas ? :wink:


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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2011 08:12 
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David Marquand on the End of the West


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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2011 23:41 
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Old post of mine in IF:

Quote:
Dhu,
Another book is "Indo-German Identifcation". by Robert Cowan

It gives avery clear track record of how the Europeans viewed the idea of India and sought to get out of Judiac origins theory. It has later chapters where they go voer the top.

Google Books:

Indo-German Identification

The big idea is there were two main streams in Europe: Latinification and Germanism.

Latinification as it was already normatized by Judeo-Christian ideas had the early lead and did not question the Bibilical account for they benefited from it.

The Germanism was reaction to the Latinised monoploy and sought to assert itself. The first concrete step was the Holy Roman Empire which was Germanic. This is approximately 9 centuries after Rome conquered the Goths who are Germanic. Later it launched Protestant movement which led to Church Reformation. The English who are really Latinised derivatives managed to colonise ahead of the Germanic landlubbers and confined them to the continent. The war of 1760 saw the rise of Prussia, Russia as continental powers.

The events of WWI and WWII are part of the Germanic breakout of the older Latinised/Roman imperial order.


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2011 05:20 
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Apostle Paul and the Early Church Fathers conquered ancient Greece by forcibly secularising Greek society. They divided the unity of Greek religion and mythology from Greek philosophy and philosophic terminology. They then secularised and appropriated Greek philosophic terminology and took the Greek religious concept of an Unknown God for themselves. The religious vacuum that followed this secularization of Greek society was filled in with the Jesus cult and other Christian superstitions. Indian bishops are perpetrating the same apostolic fraud on Hindu society today when they claim that the pre-Christian Tamil weaver saint Tiruvalluvar was a disciple of the legendary St. Thomas! They add to their cultural crime by appropriating his “secular” ethical treatise Tirukkural as their own and declaring it a sectarian Christian book.



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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2011 13:43 
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To understand what happened to the Greeks, it is worthwhile to read the book "The Passion of the Greeks: Christianity and the Rape of the Hellenes"...

http://www.amazon.com/Passion-Greeks-Ch ... 1593860390

A bit polemical, but well researched... and well, typical of the Greeks, passionately argued.

And this is a fairly useful resource:

http://hellenismos.us/f/YaBB.pl


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2011 14:26 
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I think the Aryan Invasion Theory was a necessity, not a choice. It is the only way in which those who were destroyed were used post-mortem to destroy other pagans. There was no record then, and the theory is finished now, but in between the barbarians did their routines in the name of human rights and feigned civility to go after other pagans.

In absence of such Invasion theories, people could have asked 'where are the pagans, their kings and lifestyle and if pagans were not so barbaric who destroyed them? where is the literature that talks of invasion theories' in pagan literature?

The question still stands and the barbarians are left nakid; other theories by 'acedemics' may be on the way. Science and nature are though very indifferent to civilized and barbarians in all respects.

(deleted unrelated quote)


Last edited by vishvak on 18 Aug 2011 16:55, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2011 16:16 
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Not sure why you quoted my post vishvak, but just want to point out that the book has nothing to do with AIT. Noting that just in case others think so, based on your post.


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2011 06:48 
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Book Review:

Edward De Bono, "Why So Stupid?: How the Human Race Has Never Really Learned to Think"
| 2006 | ISBN: 1842180983 | 200 pages |

Quote:
In Why So Stupid? How the Human Race has Never Really Learned to Think, Dr Edward de Bono acknowledges the excellence of the thinking system provided by the Renaissance but maintains that it is not enough. He says that we have become too complacent with a system that is dangerously inadequate in some areas. That this system is so enshrined in society will make change more difficult - but more necessary. Dr de Bono outlines new thinking methods. He challenges us to open our minds to the potential of these methods and provides concrete examples of the remarkable results they achieve in practice.


The good doc is not correct. Renaissance was due to Hellenism reviving itself after going underground in the Dark Ages under the Catholic Church whose hold was shaken by the Black Death and the vast de-population. And so called Enlightenment is a regurgitation of the percepts learned with the encounter with Asia and Native Americans in the colonial period. So if the West is at a hoatus it is because it faces the monolith and needs to create a new paradigm.


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PostPosted: 27 Aug 2011 22:14 
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Book Review:

Peter Heather - The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians
Publisher: Oxford University Press, USA (December 1, 2005) | Language: English | ISBN-10: 0195159543 | 608 pages |


Quote:
The death of the Roman Empire is one of the perennial mysteries of world history. Now, in this groundbreaking book, Peter Heather proposes a stunning new solution: Rome generated its own nemesis. Centuries of imperialism turned the neighbors it called barbarians into an enemy capable of dismantling the Empire that had dominated their lives for so long. Heather is a leading authority on the late Roman Empire and on the barbarians. In The Fall of the Roman Empire, he explores the extraordinary success story that was the Roman Empire and uses a new understanding of its continued strength and enduring limitations to show how Europe's barbarians, transformed by centuries of contact with Rome on every possible level, eventually pulled it apart. He shows first how the Huns overturned the existing strategic balance of power on Rome's European frontiers, to force the Goths and others to seek refuge inside the Empire. This prompted two generations of struggle, during which new barbarian coalitions, formed in response to Roman hostility, brought the Roman west to its knees. The Goths first destroyed a Roman army at the battle of Hadrianople in 378, and went on to sack Rome in 410. The Vandals spread devastation in Gaul and Spain, before conquering North Africa, the breadbasket of the Western Empire, in 439. We then meet Attila the Hun, whose reign of terror swept from Constantinople to Paris, but whose death in 453 ironically precipitated a final desperate phase of Roman collapse culminating in the Vandals' defeat of the massive Byzantine Armada: the west's last chance for survival.



Globalization is the new Imperium which has compressed time from centuries to decades.
The PRC are the new Huns
The Vandals and Goths are the financial whiz kids.

Fall of Pound is the new Hadrianople
2008 Meltdown is the sack of Wall Street.

How will this history repeat as farce?


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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2011 08:29 
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The Pirates' Pact: The Secret Alliances Between History's Most Notorious Buccaneers and Colonial America
Publisher: International Marine/Ragged Mountain Press; 1 edition (September 10, 2008) | Language: English | ISBN-10: 0071474765 | | 288 pages |

Quote:
Here's the story of how almost every well-known buccaneer of the “Golden Age of Piracy” enjoyed active sponsorship from England's governors in the American colonies- setting a pattern of official disobedience to the Crown that would ultimately contribute to the American push for independence. Relying on rare primary sources discovered in government archives in England, the Carolinas, Rhode Island, Jamaica, and elsewhere, Burgess combines true tales of derring-do with groundbreaking research in this fascinating history.


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PostPosted: 31 Aug 2011 01:31 
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Part of the English pirate expeditions was response of the crown to spain expanding and enriching through south american conquest. Initial Caribbean settling was part piracy. The english then realized with more power and boots they could expand and colonize. All according to Niall Ferguson's decline of british empire.


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PostPosted: 02 Sep 2011 08:43 
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Sandy Gordon seems to be one of the very few whites who understand India. I read his book on India. Very well written. Now he is writing about jathi in present day India.

I usually find that he doesn't look at India using 'Euro-Centrism' or 'Western framework'

(Caste in modern India June 29, 2011)
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/blogs/southasiamasala/2011/06/29/caste-in-modern-india/


http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/blogs/sou ... ern-india/


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PostPosted: 02 Sep 2011 09:28 
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Raoul McLaughlin, "Rome and the Distant East: Trade Routes to the ancient lands of Arabia, India and China"

Publisher: Continuum | ISBN 10: 1847252354 | 2010 | 256 pages |

Quote:
This book studies the complex system of trade exchanges and commerce that profoundly changed Roman society. In ancient times there were several major trade routes that connected the Roman Empire to exotic lands in the distant East. Ancient sources reveal that after the Augustan conquest of Egypt, valued commodities from India, Arabia and China became increasingly available to Roman society. These sources describe how Roman traders went far beyond the frontiers of their Empire, travelling on overland journeys and maritime voyages to acquire the silk, spices and aromatics of the remote East.Records from ancient China, early India and a range of significant archaeological discoveries provide further evidence for these commercial contacts. Truly global in its scope, this study is the first comprehensive enquiry into the extent of this trade and its wider significance to the Roman world. It investigates the origins and development of Roman trade voyages across the Indian Ocean, considers the role of distant diplomacy and studies the organization of the overland trade networks that crossed the inner deserts of Arabia through the Incense Routes between the Yemeni Coast and ancient Palestine. It also considers the Silk Road that extended from Roman Syria across Iraq, through the Persian Empire into inner Asia and, ultimately, China.


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PostPosted: 03 Sep 2011 22:19 
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If you look at the history of Western female costume, modern Western designs are mere adaptations of ancient Egyptian figures painted on the pyramid walls with variations of the Greek efforts.


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PostPosted: 03 Sep 2011 23:22 
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http://2ndlook.wordpress.com/2008/02/07 ... -the-west/

Country Model Of The West

Quote:
The Anglo-Saxon Country Business Model

These Turkish and Chinese failures down the western garden path is to mistake the trees for the forest. There are five major features of the Anglo-Saxon country model which these countries did not copy. Not that I am recommending that they be copied.

The Use Of Corporations

The use of the British East India Company was an eye opener for the rest of the West. After Vasco da Gama’s discovery of trade route to India (for Europeans) round Africa, the British were the first of the block – with the English East India Company formed in the 1600.

The Dutch started soon after with the Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie (Dutch East India Co.) in 1602. The Danish Opperhoved initially started in 1616 and was reborn in 1732, as Asiatisk Kompagni. The Portuguese organised themselves as chartered company in 1628. The French came with the French East India Co. in 1664. The Swedes joined the rat race in 1731 with Svenska Ostindiska Companiet. The Italians came in as the Genoa East India companies. The Hanseatic League had its own operations.

In North America, the Hudson Bay Company (Compagnie de la Baie d’Hudson in French) was given a Royal Charter in 1670 by Charles II. It practically owned Canada when the Dominion of Canada was formed – and is the oldest surviving company in North America. It monopoly ended only in 1870 – a few years after the Indian Independence War of 1857.

Anglo-American Oil Company (subsidiary of Standard Oil) of Iran plotted the the assassination of Iran’s Prime Minister Haj Ali Razmara and the overthrow of the Mohammed Mossadegh regime. Thereafter, it was the puppet regime of Shah Of Iran which terrorised Iran for 30 years that paved the way for return of Ayatollah Khomeini – and Iran’s regression to medieval times. And who was leading this campaign – Kermit Roosevelt (Teddy Roosevelt’s grandson).

The Cornering Of Gold Supplies

For the last 150 years, the ABC countries (America, Australia, Britain, Canada) comprising the Anglo-Saxon bloc (countries, colonies and companies) have controlled 90% of the world’s gold production. Till (a large part of) India was a British Colony, they also controlled more than 50% of the above-the-ground gold reserves. This gave them absolute liberty to print depreciating currency and flood the world pieces of paper(called dollars and pounds), manipulate the world financial system and keep other populations poor and backward.


Quote:
The Alternate Model

Bharat-tantra, the Indic political system that depends on local justice, low-policing, non-state free-coinage /gold-as-currency, absence of religion, property rights for all, low-tax systems, free-labour (as opposed to slave labour), enterprise instead of employment, wealth-and-property distribution instead of concentration, is the model that has a future – and a record of past success.

India, where non-State reform has played a very major role in crime, policing (JP’s dacoit reform), land reform (Vinoba Bhave’s Bhoodan movement), political change (JP’s Sampoorna Kranti movement). After the economic buffer from Bombay High oil discovery in 1974, the Indian State has certainly, steadily shed various aspects of its colonial legacy. More importantly, India did not go through the slavery-colonialism-capitalism route at all.



Anuraag Sanghi is good a debunking Western propagandu. his blog: 2ndlook.wordpress.com is very good reading material.


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