India-Australia News and Discussion

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Stan_Savljevic
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

Singha wrote:perhaps Keating sir has good faith in the dynamism of the UK financial industry.
Its more than that. The psyche of ass-ies is such that they will never ever believe that the UK could be seeing its way out as a minor power* even. You can still find people who would treat a degree from oxbridge as the next best thing after sliced bread, in fact the movers and shakers in much of what makes assie academia are anglais-educated, returned from ang-land after a post-phd stint, etc. Lo and behold, you have seen both sides of the atlantic, then you are god incarnate literally. I have seen some of the pomp and show of the high table in princeton of all amriki institutions, nowhere else in amrika, may be some of the neanderthal ivy clubs may be. In ass-tralia, the high table is the passport to success. This fondness for ang-land** also explains why they still cant figure a deadline to republicanizing ass-tralia, they wont. In fact, ass-tralia, suud afrika, canada and new zealand were at the forefront of the whole commonwealth movement, not the brits (most definitely not the scots or the welsh or the irish). If the assies become a republic, something dramatic and terrible should have happened to the UK, cos as it stands, the assies wont find a reason to give up their tenuous connections to "motherland." Ass-tralia is truly the abcd of asia, more confused than a stereotyped abcd.

* We can debate to eternity about whether UK is a minor power or a posterboy of how Rome came down, or how the sun set on the brit empire, etc. Fact is, the perception of UK as a "power" in much of the academic circles is seen by rankings such as the USNews, SJtong rankings, and that like. Plus, the financial muscle and pound-dollar ER, etc., add to the strong imagery. UK still is home to some of the innovations such as T20, *** got talent, etc., but far from the days when UK used to be the innovation wunderkid as a side-effect of the blackholism that was the brit empire. One or two olympic golds, a paula radcliffe, a 2005 ashes make people believe that UK may be on a rebound, far from reality, but thats another story.

** All that bs about whipping/pwning/pomming :) the poms etc., stop at the edge of the oval, thats why they find it odd when some of the sdres take insults past the bier-hallen. Truly the maaki moment was amusing to a broad audience on both sides of the divide given the ribbing that people get to hear at pubs and how some sdres could nt care about giving back what they get.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

Rudd firm on India uranium ban

October 28, 2011

"There is no problem in terms of a global supply" ... Kevin Rudd. Photo: Glenn Hunt

THE Foreign Minister, Kevin Rudd, and the Resources Minister, Martin Ferguson, say the ALP is free to debate a policy change to allow uranium exports to India but Mr Rudd remains opposed, saying India does not need any more of the mineral.

Indian officials and business are lobbying behind the scenes at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Perth for the government to change its policy and allow uranium exports.

The Coalition supports exporting uranium to India and it is believed the topic was raised when the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, also in Perth, met yesterday with the Indian Vice-President, Hamid Ansari.

But Labor opposes selling uranium to any nation such as India, which is not a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.

Speaking after a mining industry breakfast yesterday, Mr Rudd said India did not even need Australian uranium.

''Work out where India currently sources its uranium from around the world,'' he said.

''There is no problem in terms of global supply, let's just be very, very blunt about this.

''If you hear an argument from an Indian businessperson that the future of the nuclear industry in India depends exclusively on access to uranium, that is simply not sustainable as a proposition. Have a look at the data.''

Mr Ferguson, who does support selling uranium to India, said he was not proposing himself to move at the national conference for a policy change but he would eagerly join a debate if someone else did.

He stressed that, regardless of the policy, ''we've got a very strong relationship with India''.

Mr Ferguson revealed there were discussions in progress for a large investment in the Galilee coal basin in Queensland.

''Indian investors will be the key to the huge export opportunity for Australia,'' he said.

''The relationship with Australia is exceptionally good.'' :rotfl:
Rudd targeted in push to sell uranium to India
Michelle Grattan
October 28, 2011

PRESSURE is mounting on Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd to join the strong push to change ALP policy to allow uranium sales to India.

The uranium debate is shaping up as a major issue for the December ALP national conference, with Resources Minister Martin Ferguson urging a change of policy.

Some Labor sources say Mr Rudd is sympathetic to change, although he has publicly stuck by the present policy which bans sales to countries that are not parties to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Last night, Australian Workers Union chief Paul Howes backed change, saying if there was a debate at the national conference, he would argue for sales to India. ''To oppose [exports to India] on the basis of a dead letter treaty that doesn't do anything is nonsense,'' he said.

Mr Ferguson and Mr Rudd yesterday appeared together at a mining breakfast in Perth.

Mr Ferguson said whether the policy would change was up to the conference but emphasised that Australia had a ''very, very strong relationship with India''. He said he was presently engaged in discussions about facilitating major Indian investments in a new coal base in Queensland.

''Indian investors will be key to that huge export opportunity to Australia,'' he said.

Mr Rudd said the uranium policy would be discussed at the national conference. He pointed out that India had no problem in terms of getting uranium supplies.

''If you hear an argument from an Indian businessperson that the future of the civil nuclear industry in India depends exclusively on access to Australian uranium, that is simply not sustainable as a proposition. Have a look at the data,'' Mr Rudd said.

Mr Rudd is in a difficult position on the issue because of his strong support for the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. On the other hand, Mr Rudd had previously acknowledged the long-standing credentials that India has on non-proliferation.

In an article published last month, former ALP national president Stephen Loosley argued for changing the policy, writing that Mr Rudd was among the senior ministers who appreciated the importance of the issue in Australian-Indian relations.

Mr Loosley said that no one should imagine that all would be splendid in links between Canberra and Delhi once Australian uranium began powering Indian industry.

''But it will serve to place our bilateral relationship on a footing that will encourage greater political and diplomatic co-operation; more frankness and transparency in our dealings, including military to military contacts; deeper economic ties and broader collaboration in strategic challenges particularly in the Indian Ocean,'' Mr Loosley wrote. ''This is clearly appreciated in Canberra by senior ministers Martin Ferguson, Kevin Rudd and Stephen Smith. The Prime Minister is alert to the challenge.''

Mr Howes said that Australia sold uranium to China which was a closed dictatorship, but not to India, which was an open democracy that gave Australia more ability to supervise how the uranium was used.

He said the non-proliferation treaty was a ''rubbish treaty'' that did not stop the manufacture of nuclear weapons. If it did, he would take a different view on the issue, he said.
Proposal of Commonwealth's "NAC :-
India against new rights group at Commonwealth

New Delhi says the 54-member group should focus more on development challenges instead of human rights

Iftikhar Gilani
New Delhi

As India seems set to block an attempt by some countries to constitute a human rights monitoring group at the 54th Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM), international human rights groups have taken a strong exception to New Delhi’s stance.

The summit begins in the Australian city of Perth o Friday. Vice-President Hamid Ansari left for Perth on Thursday to lead the official delegation at the summit, which includes an executive session where leaders would make formal statements and a retreat during which they would interact informally without the presence of aides.

Australia and Canada are in the forefront of supporting recommendations of an eminent persons’ panel set up by the CHOGM. The 106 recommendations by the panel include creation of the post of Commissioner for Democracy, Rule of Law and Human Rights to monitor human rights situations in the member nations.

India has said that the group should focus on development challenges rather human rights. Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai has said that India’s reservations stem from the fact that the new office of Human Rights Commissioner would undermine the role of both the Secretary General and the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group. Secondly, he believes that the proposal is a duplication of what the UN is already doing through its rapporteurs.

“CHOGM’s real focus should be once again on the development challenges which are uppermost in the minds of vast majority of the members. So, while we support the important values of democracy, rule of law and human rights, we believe the Commonwealth should focus on strengthening existing institutions rather than trying to create new ones,” he added.

However, Director of the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiatives Maja Daruwala believes that if the summit dismisses the eminent persons’ report, the Commonwealth will hits its very own stance on human rights. “Those who insist that the introduction of a Commissioner for Democracy, Human Rights and Rule of Law is too ‘punitive’ oppose the Commonwealth’s stated values are distorting the intent and importance of such a position. But values-based scrutiny must be a Commonwealth feature if the association is to claim that it lives up to its stated aims and principles,” she said.

Mathai said that the proposal to inspect human rights violations in Sri Lanka or elsewhere was ill-timed given that the Commonwealth was also facing funding problems noting that India was the fourth-largest contributor to the coffers of the 54-member group and also the largest member in terms of population to assert itself in the association. Mathai said that there was a “need for a more careful review” of the recommendations adding that he brought up the issue at a meeting of Commonwealth officials in New York on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly last month. “A decision was taken in 2009 for the next two CHOGM meetings. That matter has been decided and does not need to be reopened.”

On Australia’s initial objections to the Vice-President standing in for Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, Mathai said: “In our system, the Vice-President holds a position of great importance. He is second in the warrant of precedence.” Canberra had conveyed to New Delhi that Ansari wouldn’t be treated as a head of a state or government as Australia had no Vice-President. Ansari, it said, would be accorded privileges reserved for the Speaker of Australian Parliament.

The theme of CHOGM this year, chosen by Australia, is 'Building National Resilience, Building Global Resilience'. Australia has circulated a concept paper on the theme, which focuses on strengthening the Commonwealth, to enable it to more effectively assist member nations in dealing with current challenges as individual states, as members of the Commonwealth, and as members of the global community. The paper focuses on issues related to economic and social development, food and energy security, and the adverse effects of climate change.

Iftikhar Gilani is Special Correspondent with Tehelka.com
iftikhar@tehelka.com
What is the EPG?

The Eminent Persons Group was established by Commonwealth Heads of Government at their summit in November 2009.

In the 'Affirmation of Commonwealth Principles' agreed at their 2009 meeting in Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago, Commonwealth leaders called for the “creation of an Eminent Persons Group to undertake an examination of options for reform in order to bring the Commonwealth’s many institutions into a stronger and more effective framework of co-operation and partnership".

Who's in the EPG?

At present, the members are as follows:
Dr. Emmanuel O. Akwetey (Ghana)
Tun Abdullah Ahmad Badawi (Malaysia, Chairperson)
Ms Patricia Francis (Jamaica)
Dr Asma Jahangir (Pakistan)
Mr Samuel Kavuma (Uganda) – (Commonwealth Youth Caucus)
The Hon Michael Kirby (Australia)
Dr Graca Machel (Mozambique)
Rt Hon Sir Malcolm Rifkind (UK)
Sir Ronald Sanders (Guyana)
Senator Hugh Segal (Canada)
Sir Ieremia Tabai (Kiribati)
Now is the time for reform' declares Commonwealth Eminent Persons Group
23 March 2011

EPG issues statement following its fourth meeting before its report is sent to Commonwealth Heads of Government

“The Commonwealth is in danger of becoming irrelevant and unconvincing as a values-based association,” declared the Commonwealth Eminent Persons Group in a closing statement issued at their meeting in London on 21-22 March 2011.

“To safeguard against this danger we will recommend to leaders the adoption of proposals that will strengthen the Commonwealth, both as an association of governments and of peoples,” the group said.
...

At the Commonwealth summit in Perth, Australia, in October 2011, the group will call on the Commonwealth’s 54 leaders to adopt a package of reforms, including the need for adequate resources that will include the following:

Championing values
• A ‘Charter of the Commonwealth’ to be developed by and for Commonwealth citizens.
• Expanding the range of measures available to the Secretary-General and to the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group (CMAG) to better respond where Commonwealth values are violated.
• Creating a Commonwealth Commissioner on Democracy and the Rule of Law to advise the Secretary-General and CMAG on serious or persistent violations of the Commonwealth’s core values.
• Specific initiatives on HIV/AIDS around the Commonwealth.
Establishing academies for democracy and election training.
Broadening the remit to strengthen a culture of democracy, including post-election transition of governments and civic education.

Advocating for small and developing countries
• Placing development concerns at the heart of the Commonwealth’s work by campaigning on priority global issues, leveraging its strength as a convening and influencing body. This should build on the Commonwealth’s many achievements including its landmark anti-apartheid role, debt reduction work, and more recently, advancement of Commonwealth perspectives in the international climate change debate.
• Maximising the Commonwealth’s political influence through the use of high-level advocacy missions to advance Commonwealth perspectives in organisations such as the G20, IMF, WTO and World Bank.
• Providing extra financial support to improve training for small states in meeting the demands of international regulatory requirements.
• Refocusing the Commonwealth’s work with young people to strengthen policies to provide opportunities to all young people based on merit and stimulating investment in youth enterprise.

Institution fit for purpose
• A significant focusing of the Commonwealth Secretariat’s work plan.
• Investment in the Secretariat to attract the best international talent.
• Maximising time for dialogue on the priority issues of the day at the Commonwealth summit and ministerial meetings.
• Giving the Commonwealth Foundation an explicit mandate to mobilise Commonwealth civil society around global issues.
• Expanding opportunities for citizens, such as scholarships and professional exchanges, and expanding the ‘footprint’ of the Commonwealth by creating incentives for Commonwealth organisations to re-locate out of the UK.
..
RajeshA
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

Published on Oct 28, 2011
By John Ross
India bounces back: The Australian
INDIA appears set for a comeback as a top Australian education market, with a new Immigration Department report putting the subcontinent neck and neck with China in student visa applications.

The September quarter report shows that applications from the south Asian giant increased by over 4000 compared to the same period last year.

The total of 14,600 applications left India just 700 shy of Australia’s biggest market, China, and miles ahead of any other. The third market, Korea, yielded just 3000 applications.

And while 80 per cent of the Indian applications were lodged by people already in Australia – mainly students wanting to begin new courses – a 150 per cent surge in offshore applications suggested institutions could look forward to fresh arrivals from the subcontinent.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

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Published on Oct 29, 2011
By Paul Kelly
ALP needs to get over itself on uranium to India: The Australian
WITH Julia Gillard's foreign policy in the spotlight the issue cannot be ignored: how long will the obsolete and discredited ALP policy be allowed to prejudice Australia's ties with India, the emerging third biggest economy in the world?

Gillard's theme these days is Australia's ability to adapt to the new Asian century, yet such claims are mocked by her government's incapacity to conduct foreign policy on merit.

That the ALP national conference should continue to impair Australia's economic and strategic interests is intolerable. If this situation continues uncorrected at the December national conference then the Gillard government must be held to account for allowing Labor's antiquated obsessions about uranium and nuclear power to prevent Australia from following an India policy that its ministers know to be desirable and inevitable.

The issue is that the ALP platform stops Labor selling uranium to India. The greater issue, however, transcends uranium. It is whether the Labor Party in its structure and culture is competent to run a national interest foreign policy for the Asian century. The jury remains out.

The director of the international security program at the Lowy Institute, Rory Medcalf, says a Labor failure to change policy in December will not constitute "absolute disaster" in relations with India. "But a decision to stick with the old policy will convince India's political elites that Labor is never going to be a natural partner for a rising India," Medcalf tells Inquirer. "It will be a signal that Labor simply does not trust India. This is a real shame."
It is funny how Australians are themselves so worked up about the sale of uranium to India, or India is good at lobbying. It can also be that the conservatives have found a good club to pound the Labor with!

Anyway, Mugambo khush hua!
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

RajeshA wrote: It is funny how Australians are themselves so worked up about the sale of uranium to India, or India is good at lobbying. It can also be that the conservatives have found a good club to pound the Labor with!

Anyway, Mugambo khush hua!
With the increasing decline of the US, the aussies can no longer be seen to be publicly hitching their bandwagon to the chinese as kevin rudd did. They would be seen as ungrateful.

India is a very safe bet under these circumstances. The aussies have always had a strong contempt for India with overt racial undertones. Great khujli among the white racist types to see India rising in all areas of development with an economy going great guns despite italians and the creeps from the NAC.

Quite amusing to see them backtrack for thirty pieces of silver.

That is all there is to it---- thirty pieces of silver and aussie national honor is sold to the highest bidder. That's bound to happen when the majority of the populace's ancestors graced HM's prisons.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Vipul »

India cold to Australia’s trilateral dialogue offer.

With Canberra persisting on its no uranium export policy to India, New Delhi has side-stepped an Australian proposal for a trilateral strategic dialogue, with the US as the third party. The significant dialogue was proposed through the high-level diplomatic channels this month.

Government sources said Australia had proposed a dialogue on the lines of the new India-US-Japan tripartite talks scheduled to be held in Tokyo next month with additional secretary level officials discussing the India-Pacific strategic environment including maritime security.

But, New Delhi is understood to have given a cold shoulder to Canberra's initiative as India feels there is no point in having strategic ties with a country that chooses to put restrictions on uranium exports to India citing outdated non-proliferation concerns.

Although Australia is exporting uranium to China, US, South Korea, Taiwan and several European countries, it had banned yellow cake exports to India in 2008 when Kevin Rudd was the prime minister. The present Julia Gillard government is under pressure from Australian media to overturn the outdated policy at the Labour Party conference in December particularly after the Indo-US nuclear deal.

New Delhi has decided to play it cool and send a message to Canberra by sending Vice President Hamid Ansari to represent India at the on-going Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Australia.

It is learnt that Ansari will not even broach the uranium topic with Gillard in the bilateral meet on Sunday.

With China ambitiously claiming South China sea as its backwaters and PLA Navy acquiring long legs through surface platforms, India-Pacific powers including Australia, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam and the US have been concerned over an assertive Beijing.

While New Delhi has been vigorously engaging US Pacific Command in Hawaii, Japan, South Korea and Vietnam through high profile bilateral visits, it is not so sure about Australia as the latter often tends to box at the higher weight category.

Even though New Delhi wants to improve ties with Canberra in the mining sector, it has not forgotten the gratuitous statements of the Australian government after the 1998 Pokhran tests.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Klaus »

Armed Forces Defense Academy rife with sexual harassment and strife.

From the survey report carried out by an independent commission.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by anishns »

All this showing the cold shoulder to the white pakis down under seems to be paying off


End India uranium ban: Julia Gillard urges Labor
LABOR plans to lift its ban on uranium sales to India as Julia Gillard puts her stamp on foreign policy in the "Asian century" and imposes her authority on the ALP conference next month.

The Prime Minister will move to dump the anachronistic ban on uranium sales to India for nuclear power generation because it has been hurting Australia-India relations and stalling trade and security development.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Suraj »

Left concedes Gillard will succeed in bid to allow uranium sales to India
Senior ministers today backed the Prime Minister's bid to end the party's ban on uranium sales to India, arguing the sub-continental super-power was not a "rogue nuclear nation".
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

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Australian Workers Union backs uranium exports expansion.
Senator Cameron rejected as "a silly argument" suggestions Australia was missing out on economic benefits because of its ban on uranium sales to India.

Any policy shift could add up to $1.7 billion in annual exports, with BHP Billiton one of the biggest beneficiaries.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

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Former nuclear diplomat backs India sales
RORY MEDCALF: Well essentially you've got almost 200 countries that are party to a treaty. If you reopen negotiations on a treaty on the scale of the NPT, you're going to have you know a decade's worth of the most difficult diplomacy that could end up with a worse outcome than the one we have.

Reopening the NPT is not really a viable option and instead, the best we can hope for is really carving out these exceptional parallel arrangements for countries that are in every other sense good non-proliferation actors.

ELEANOR HALL: Every time you do that though, don't you weaken the Non-Proliferation Treaty?

RORY MEDCALF: Well in a sense the weakness in the Non-Proliferation Treaty came at its inception. There was a flaw in the treaty from the beginning and India was the most glaring, notable example of that - a major country essentially locked out, refused the right to possess nuclear weapons for defence and refused the right to have, to civilian nuclear commerce with the world.
ELEANOR HALL: You're sort of pointing out all these holes in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and yet still saying that we shouldn't as an international community junk it. What is the current benefit of the NPT?

RORY MEDCALF: Look the Non-Proliferation Treaty has certainly slowed the rate of proliferation. Many countries, including Australia, I would add that contemplated building nuclear weapons back in the 1960s ended up deciding not to partly as a result of the NPT.

It is an imperfect arrangement. I certainly support the NPT but it needs to adapt and one way it can adapt without some sort of complete reopening of the treaty which could end up with a worse outcome, is to carve out detailed parallel arrangements and obligations for key countries outside the NPT.

And the only one of those countries I think at the moment that really warrants special treatment is India.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by arun »

anishns wrote:All this showing the cold shoulder to the white pakis down under seems to be paying off


End India uranium ban: Julia Gillard urges Labor
LABOR plans to lift its ban on uranium sales to India as Julia Gillard puts her stamp on foreign policy in the "Asian century" and imposes her authority on the ALP conference next month.

The Prime Minister will move to dump the anachronistic ban on uranium sales to India for nuclear power generation because it has been hurting Australia-India relations and stalling trade and security development.
Extract from the OpEd in the Sydney Morning Herald in which the Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard mooted the idea that Australia should sell Uranium to India:
One of our nearest neighbours is India. Long a close partner. The world's biggest democracy. Growing at 8 per cent a year. Yet despite the links of language, heritage and democratic values, in one important regard we treat India differently. We will not sell India uranium for peaceful purposes - though Canada is preparing to - while policy allows us to export it to countries such as China, Japan and the United States.

It is time for Labor to modernise our platform and enable us to strengthen our connection with dynamic, democratic India. As in other areas, broadening our markets will increase jobs. We must, of course, expect of India the same standards we do of all countries for uranium export - strict adherence to International Atomic Energy Agency arrangements and strong bilateral undertakings and transparency measures that will provide assurances our uranium will be used only for peaceful purposes.
From here:

An opportunity for sound and fury signifying something
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by vina »

Frankly , I really don't have any good feelings for these White Pakis and trust them as much as the "Paki" Pakis. Those White Pakis had no hesitation in selling off their Mirage IIIs and Vs to the Paki- Pakis, which incidentally are the nuclear delivery weapons of the PAF with the ROSE update and had no compunction whatsoever in selling weapons for illicit nuclear arsenals which were in clear violation of NPT treaty guidelines and spirit, yet persisted with some self serving hypocrisy in selling yellow cake to India.

Racist to the core, no history of inventing anything, can invent nothing,zero entrepreneurial instincts, really a white Saudi Arabia.. digging stuff from under the earth and shipping it out , the best way to treat them is to let the Chinese do it to them.

Let ALP do what it wants and pass it's law. When it comes to buying, we are better off going to others like Kazakhstan, other producers in Africa with large deposits. We really should tell the White Pakis "Take Ur-Anium and stuff it up Ur-A**s" .

And oh, India should definitely stay out of that US-Australia "containment" of China rubbish. We have far greater flexibility by staying out side and can actually talk to China on this with more cards on the table and address the key interests we have with China (namely the India-China boundary issue and the China - Pakiland link). And oh, if you really want cards to play against China, playing arms transfer cards Vietnam etc is a far better bet than playing hired gun/ deputy Sheriff to USA .
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by harbans »

Vina ji, there is or rather should not be any Indo-Chinese border issue. The real issue is China_Tibetan border. That's where the debating lines should be. one can also not leave a landmass 9 million odd sq kms big south of us to the Chinese alone. It's lousy strategy long term really.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by vina »

hat's where the debating lines should be. one can also not leave a landmass 9 million odd sq kms big south of us to the Chinese alone. It's lousy strategy long term really
The White Pakis are wedded to the Americans and think that they are actually in the North Atlantic and not in the Pacific and Indian oceans! So yeah, the Chinese will not "have" Australia, but will given them a beating once in a while to keep them in line. That is absolutely fine. Other than a source of minerals (which we frankly should simply do away with as a requirement by getting to Thorium based power with deterimened and focused R&D in a time frame of 25 to 30 years) long term White Pakiland is of no consequence I think. With a declining America, they will have suitable "behavior modification" and after the beatings at the hands of China will come crawling . Dont worry.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Kanishka »

vina wrote:Frankly , I really don't have any good feelings for these White Pakis and trust them as much as the "Paki" Pakis. Those White Pakis had no hesitation in selling off their Mirage IIIs and Vs to the Paki- Pakis, which incidentally are the nuclear delivery weapons of the PAF with the ROSE update and had no compunction whatsoever in selling weapons for illicit nuclear arsenals which were in clear violation of NPT treaty guidelines and spirit, yet persisted with some self serving hypocrisy in selling yellow cake to India.

Racist to the core, no history of inventing anything, can invent nothing,zero entrepreneurial instincts, really a white Saudi Arabia.. digging stuff from under the earth and shipping it out , the best way to treat them is to let the Chinese do it to them.

Let ALP do what it wants and pass it's law. When it comes to buying, we are better off going to others like Kazakhstan, other producers in Africa with large deposits. We really should tell the White Pakis "Take Ur-Anium and stuff it up Ur-A**s" .

And oh, India should definitely stay out of that US-Australia "containment" of China rubbish. We have far greater flexibility by staying out side and can actually talk to China on this with more cards on the table and address the key interests we have with China (namely the India-China boundary issue and the China - Pakiland link). And oh, if you really want cards to play against China, playing arms transfer cards Vietnam etc is a far better bet than playing hired gun/ deputy Sheriff to USA .

China is too large and powerful nation to to be trusted short term or long term.
China is not a friend and never will be. We must not forget what happened in 1962.
While agreeing fully that the white pakis are a racist bunch of thugs, they are not our enemy. We should engage them to our benefit.
While not getting directly involved, we must ensure that China is not able to flex its military muscle against anyone and get away with it because sooner or later it will be our turn.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by harbans »

Vina Ji no, we don't dismiss a landmass that big just because of a few demonstrated instances of racism or unfair attitudes towards India at the present. It also happens to be the biggest launchpad to the Antarctic region, a fall back place if India ever has to endure Islamic hordes running amock over our lands. Letting China get a free hand on resources in Australia in the present term is just plain lunacy. We also import oil from the Saudi Barbarians. We must make sure till we have sufficient energy resources within our fold, thorium or renewable or shale whatever, that we influence, cajole whatever it takes to get what resources we need todaya nd in the next few decades at as reasonable a price. India must both increase immigration to that land and get resources while attempting to block and make Chinese access more expensive. After all the Chinese have been doing this all along across Central Asia and Africa with us. We must stay put.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Avik »

a fall back place if India ever has to endure Islamic hordes running amock over our lands.
harbans ji: what does the above mean?
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

Avik wrote:
a fall back place if India ever has to endure Islamic hordes running amock over our lands.
harbans ji: what does the above mean?
We are all migrating to Australia! Better get our bags ready! :)
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I have a better idea. Astralia is Indian strategic depth.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

I think the Indians in Australia should get on board the 'Movement for Lands Rights of the Aboriginal Australians'. We should become their lawyers.

The more we push White Australians from their land ownership claims returning the land to the Aboriginals, the more influence we will become with both Aboriginals (being their lawyers) and with the White Australians (them hoping that we will tone down the movement).

We can use the influence to get more Indians to migrate to Australia.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Rajesh ji,

I am thinking in a different direction, Indians use the same logic against the White Astralians that they used agianst the Aboriginals of the land.

Whats left of the land can be used to provide lebensraum for us. :P
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

Pratyush ji,

times are different! The whites use all sort of human rights issues to secure for themselves a say in the policies of other countries. It is time to return the favor.

In fact, we could get some Aboriginals to declare that they see their belief system as a part of the Hindu Continuum, which would give Indians a valid reason to intervene, other than just on the basis of human rights, which the whites seem to have made their own preserve.

If we align our more than 400,000 Indians in Australia behind Rights of the Aboriginals, it is bound to make the White Australians sit up. By aligning ourselves on the side of the Aboriginal Rights, Indians can claim to have more rights to Australia than the Whites. In time we can push the whites to concede more space to us.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

australia is too dry to sustain a very large population...
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Murugan »

We have to bring this up:

Found: Sunken islands that linked India to Australia

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 765912.cms
"The data collected on the voyage could significantly change our understanding of the way in which India, Australia and Antarctica broke off from Gondwana," University of Sydney geologist Joanne Whittaker, a team member, said.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by harbans »

harbans ji: what does the above mean?
Sort of strategic depth as mentioned. This is the biggest landmass nearest to us (it actually was a part of our land mass per info in Murugan ji's post) that we may influence in a demographic way. 9 million sq km with a population less than NCR! Loads of natural resources, maritime boundary all around. With energy becoming cheaper in the decades to come, massive scale desalination plants will make Australia a very livable continent capable of sustaining much larger levels of population. The Indian subcontinent has already close to 45% folks from the ROP. Check the growth of Islam in the last 60 years itself. With free liberal visa regimes, be mentally prepared to see a sustained growth in Islamic population within India. In a 100 to 130 years, non ROP'ers will be a minority. A country like India desperately needs strategic depth of some sort. A big friendly landmass close by. Australia fits the bill. In the interim too we need resources to sustain the economy. Shipping costs are minimal from Australia too. To abandon the promise of Australia is fool hardy. Aussies have a choice, to maintain their value systems of plurality and democracy, tolerance by netting India or making way for downright Chinese domination in the future. Lets not abandon Australia to China.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by RamaY »

I like RajeshAji's idea.

Support Aboriginal's rights. Get them land rights. Get them integrated in to Hindu world view. Develop infra in those lands.

One possibility is white pakis inviting PRC into the equation. We need to engage both sides until the critical mass is reached.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Klaus »

Just got back from a meeting with an Aussie recruitment consultant. 10 minutes into the conversation, he tells me that he is a practicing Hindu, a vegan and gives me his business card with the name Shiva-....

Was pleasantly surprised when he said that he meditated extensively and lamented at the fact that there were so few Hindus in Oz. I guess age and related health issues have made him search and look around.

Also a pointer that Dharmics have allies in the unlikeliest of places.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

Our edit on oz yellow cake to India

Australia offers Yellow Cakes
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by shiv »

chackojoseph wrote:Our edit on oz yellow cake to India

Australia offers Yellow Cakes
For past 60 odd years of modern India existence, the British left overs have been of no great significance. Except cricket, the Australia offered nothing but tiny headaches. It threatened India when INS Vikrant passed near Fiji and frequently shadowed Indian warships.
:rotfl:
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

shiv wrote:
For past 60 odd years of modern India existence, the British left overs have been of no great significance. Except cricket, the Australia offered nothing but tiny headaches. It threatened India when INS Vikrant passed near Fiji and frequently shadowed Indian warships.

Australia maintains close relationship with the military intelligence of Pakistan. To keep up its relationship it has to show overt hostility to India and Indian military and gain the confidence of the counterparts of Pakistan. They may need to pass the information about Indian Navy and its military maneuvers to PA to keep its close relationship.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

Acharya wrote:
shiv wrote:
For past 60 odd years of modern India existence, the British left overs have been of no great significance. Except cricket, the Australia offered nothing but tiny headaches. It threatened India when INS Vikrant passed near Fiji and frequently shadowed Indian warships.

Australia maintains close relationship with the military intelligence of Pakistan. To keep up its relationship it has to show overt hostility to India and Indian military and gain the confidence of the counterparts of Pakistan. They may need to pass the information about Indian Navy and its military maneuvers to PA to keep its close relationship.
Also don't forget that aussies like loser Kevin Rudd speak with a forked tongue, and one of these forks is definitely chinese.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

The yellow Cake News is the harbinger of Asur-talians turnig away for Gonndagardi to meek Haan ji Haan ji kardi Spoongiri. Dragon gaining mucle by acquiring Asurtalian natural resources to kick Unkil's in Gonads is not not in Asian, Amreekan or Indian interests. By mending their way toward righteousness, Ausrtralians save themselves what Ho Chi Min describe as Hajar Saal of Smelling the Chineese Musharraf.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

We can realte to this ..

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2 ... asia_pivot
Against the East Asia 'pivot'
There has been much ado in the media and from the Obama administration about a great strategic shift from the Middle East and South Asia to East Asia. Obama and senior administration officials are making the case for this shift by claiming that we have accomplished our Iraq and Afghanistan goals, and that the time has come to focus on the "real problem": China. This week, the president announced the basing of 2,500 marines in Australia and a pushed for the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a regional free trade agreement that excludes China. The U.S. military has also released some details on its new AirSea battle concept -- an answer to the dense network of submarines, mines, anti-aircraft capabilities, and missiles that China has created to keep the United States out of China's periphery. All of these moves are to be commended. However, they do not and should not add up to a new "pivot." Here are some reasons why:

1) There is no way for the U.S. to project the necessary influence into East Asia if Aghanistan and Pakistan are on fire. One major reason is that if India is tied down in a competition with Pakistan, China, and Iran in Afghanistan, it cannot become the kind of East Asian power we wish it to be. The Bush administration's India strategy was designed to help India break out of its squabbles in South Asia and exert influence in East Asia. A hasty pull-out of Aghanistan will reverse that sensible strategy.

2) China is exercising more influence in the Middle East in ways harmful to our larger goals (e.g., support of Iran). To compete with China in East Asia, we must retain our influence in the Middle East and South Asia and check destabilizing Chinese diplomacy.

3) The deployment of U.S. Marines to Australia and the highlighting of a military concept to respond to China's military build-up are necessary but insufficient first steps. These developments cannot make up for the fact that our military has faced deep cuts in its budget and will face more. No matter what administration officials say, these cuts will affect our posture in Asia profoundly. We need more ships, more aircraft, more missile defense. To be a bit flippant, we are putting Marines in Australia without sufficient equipment to get out of Australia. Our allies and China need to see and feel our presence. That can only be accomplished with more sea patrols, surges in exercises that promote freedom of navigation, and so on.

4) The AirSea battle concept is a serious effort to meet the China challenge. But based on information released about it, the concept suffers from two flaws. First, the resource question -- how would we shut down Chinese military operations without sufficient platforms and munitions? Second, AirSea battle fails to take into account China's nuclear ambitions. China is already a nuclear-armed country with every incentive to continue its build-up of nuclear forces. That is because we have agreed on a bilateral (with Russia) rather than multilateral basis to cap our nuclear forces. Since China is bound by no important arms control treaties, and because we are openly talking about major conventional strikes on the Mainland, China has every reason to seek nuclear parity with us over time.

5) The TPP is a great idea. In particular, securing Japanese agreement to an FTA would be a great success . The question is, are we serious? It took the better part of Obama's term to ratify the FTA with South Korea. Are we really to believe that he will take on his base and sign more major FTAs?
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

harbans wrote:
harbans ji: what does the above mean?
Sort of strategic depth as mentioned. This is the biggest landmass nearest to us (it actually was a part of our land mass per info in Murugan ji's post) that we may influence in a demographic way. 9 million sq km with a population less than NCR! Loads of natural resources, maritime boundary all around. With energy becoming cheaper in the decades to come, massive scale desalination plants will make Australia a very livable continent capable of sustaining much larger levels of population. The Indian subcontinent has already close to 45% folks from the ROP. Check the growth of Islam in the last 60 years itself. With free liberal visa regimes, be mentally prepared to see a sustained growth in Islamic population within India. In a 100 to 130 years, non ROP'ers will be a minority. A country like India desperately needs strategic depth of some sort. A big friendly landmass close by. Australia fits the bill. In the interim too we need resources to sustain the economy. Shipping costs are minimal from Australia too. To abandon the promise of Australia is fool hardy. Aussies have a choice, to maintain their value systems of plurality and democracy, tolerance by netting India or making way for downright Chinese domination in the future. Lets not abandon Australia to China.
:D Lately lots of my old constructive wishes are coming true !!!
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

I wonder why India does not think of Fiji if it thinks of Pacific and Australia. We should invest in Indian community there. They have been in economic per-eminence in the society but made second grade citizens after coup. That should change sooner or later. They have , incidentally, largest Temple in TN style , in South Pacific. And evolution of Hindu religion after migration is quite unique.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

I am all for Indian investments in the Indian population in Figi. The natives have a major problem and unless steps are taken to counter them and make them comfortable to the Idea of a symbiotic relationships with the Indian population. They will continue to be uncomfortable with the Indian's and will create problems for both the ethnic groups.

PS. IIRC, Ethnic Indians still don't have land ownership rights in the nation.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

Many Indian Fijians have been moving to New Zealand and Australia. This needs to stop. Indian Fijians should feel secure in Fiji itself. GoI needs to start a strong outreach program towards native Fijians.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

But then you risking the natives inviting the PRC to counter balance the Indian out reach. It reminds me of the Burma of the 60's before the ethnic Indians were ethnically cleansed by the Burmese.

Also the military is a highly coup prone. Every decade on my life has seen one coup in Fiji. Even today it has been suspended from the commonwealth. For its lack of Democracy.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

Pratyush ji,

An outreach does not need to be counter-balanced. It is a purely positive program. It would involve having a stronger dialogue with native Fijians; giving them scholarships for Indian educational institutions; financing Fijian cultural programs in both Fiji and India; opening NGOs in Fiji for the benefit of native Fijians, etc; having military cooperation, allowing native Fijians to train in Indian military academies, wagerah, wagerah!

Chinese may offer something similar. But Fiji speaks English, and this is where it is much easier for India to get a head-start.

I also think, there needs to be a lot more of Fijian-Indian marriages. It seems the Methodist-Hinduism divide has also played a part in keeping the two ethnic groups separate. If anything, it is the racial mixing that would stabilize the situation in Fiji for the Indians. In fact, all those Indians who protest their daughters marrying native Fijians should rethink their position.
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