ISI-History and Discussions

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Oct 2009 04:48

KSA Secret Police:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Mukhabarat_Al_A%27amah

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Oct 2009 00:26

X-Post...

shyamd wrote:IOL: ISI is going to lose its monopoly on the fight against terrorism. Deeming that ISI had unduly compromised itself with some Jihadist movements, several Western countries, with the United Kingdom in the forefront, are to help Pakistan set up a specific CT agency. The new agency will be put together by the a wing of British Home Office, and its network of counter-terrorism and extremism liaison officers on post in Pakistan.

If the current ISI has become the Mukhabarat for the TSP Islamic State, then this new agency will get first infiltrated and then coopted to render it in-effective.
Its interesting that its again the UK midwifing the TSP intelligence agencies. Deja vu all over again after ~60 years!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Oct 2009 22:56

From Pervaiz Iqbal Cheema's book "Armed Forces of Paksitan"

While each of the services has its own intelligence
network, there is a central body known as Inter Services
Intelligence (ISI). Over the years ISI became a very
powerful and influential agency, especially during the
Zia regime. It began to keep an eye on political developments
within the country, in addition to its main
functions, and also began to actively participate in the
political arena and to extend support to preferred
groups.9 ISI ‘gained prominence due to its association
with the Afghan War and the close link it cultivated
with the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in
1979–80, which enabled it to amass sizable material
resources’.10 Following the Soviet withdrawal from
Afghanistan, ISI began to focus more on the domestic
scene. In the 1990 elections it played an extremely
important role in setting up a right-wing electoral alliance
known as Islami Jamhoori Itehad to counterbalance
the expected victory of the Pakistan Peoples Party.11 ISI
works under the Chief of Army Staff, and information
provided by the agency is often used to develop strategies
to counter internal as well as external threats.
Usually the chief of ISI is a serving senior Army officer;
occasionally the position has been held by a retired
officer.

So ISI was transforming into a Mukhbarat during Zia's time. Again a hark back to Sultanate times.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 31 Oct 2009 00:03

Ramana,

Ayub Khan was the one who turned the ISI in to the premier political intelligence and covert political action agency in the country.

It had been so busy working to defeat Fatima Jinnah in the Presidential elections of January 1965 that it was completely unprepared to provide strategic intelligence to Ayub during the Indo-Pakistani war in September.

Incidently, the ISI developed very close links with Islamist parties during the election campaign in order to produce fatwas and grassroots propaganda to disparage Fatima as an 'unislamic' candidate since she was a woman. The ISI from that point on relied on an alliance with Islamists to defeat every internal challenge to PA dominance, including the Awami National League in the 1970 elections.

There was a temporary eclipse in the Bhutto years when he created his own agency, the 'Federal Security Force' in 1972 since he rightly mistrusted the ISI's loyalty to anyone outside the PA chain of command. The FSF was history once Zia returned the PA to power in 1977.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Oct 2009 02:18

My line of thinking is that ISI started out as an intelligence agency under Cawthorne and has become transformed into a Mukhabarat of the Islamic State of Pakistan. It is the core ideological entity in TSP. Earlier I used to think that TSPA was the core of the TSP and now I find it is ISI that is the core of the TSPA.

Lets see how it pans out. Ayub might have expanded its mandate to domestic area but it was under Zia it got transformed.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 31 Oct 2009 02:37

Ramana,

I would agree about the transformation of the ISI from an external intelligence agency in to a secret police/Mukhabarat is important.

However it is a symptom of the transformation of the PA's role within Pakistani society and politics, and that is the story of Ayub.

The ISI's primary role from Ayub onwards is project the Army's power within Pakistan, and secondarily to project the PA's power beyond Pakistan. The ISI's role in winning Ayub's election in 1965 is indistinguishable from the ISI's role in getting Nawaz or Musharraf 'elected'.

This is why every Pakistani civilian leader after Ayub has found the ISI the most dangerous and unreliable section of the GoP, and why the PA will never allow its abolition, even though it has its own Military Intelligence branch. It is the right hand of the praetorian guard which has dominated Pakistan.

Ayub used Islamist rhetoric (especially after 1964), while Zia believed in it. That's the transformational difference between them.
Zia made jihad part of the PA's permanent mission and, the ISI followed suit with the rest of the armed forces and state machinery.

The ISI can not be thought of separately from the PA's senior officer corps. That is why the ISI's loyalty to the PA's percieved political and strategic interests is the constant from Ayub to Zia and on to the present.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Oct 2009 03:15

I think now the ISI is the core of the Army. Its no longer the earlier way. Ayub and Zia are enablers. The virus has acquired a life of its own- from parasite it has become the host. If one doesnt recognize that there will be gaps in comprehension.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 31 Oct 2009 04:01

So the core of the onion that comprises the PAKI ruling elite is the ISI.

WHat is inside the ISI - Cawthorne's teachings? If true, holds a bitter lesson for the anglosaxons.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 31 Oct 2009 05:40

Ramana, Paul,

Can the ISI operate independent of the COAS and corps commanders? Absolutely not!

Organisations are more than abstractions - they are people and offices. The ISI's officers are regular PA officers rotated through.

Its *most* significant personalities, people like Akhtar Rehman, Hamid Gul, Javed Nasir, Aziz Khan, Kayani, etc were not career intelligence branch or ISI officers.

Most of them had served as brigade, division and even corps commanders prior to their appointment to the ISI.

They were people that the COAS trusted, and who had the 'right' attitude towards jihad (often demonstrated as Brigade/Division/Corps commanders along the LoC or Durand Line) and Pakistan's national security problems. Officers in these positions are intimately involved in supporting covert operations.

Take Mohammed Aziz Khan, who was what B. Raman liked to call the head of the 'Army of Islam' even though he only spent a couple of years as an ISI deputy director. His previous positions as chief of staff in X Corps (the coup corps), and field command in Force Command Northern Areas (Musharraf's stomping grounds) are part of what prepared him for the role, and what allowed him to exercise authority over Pakistan's state supported jihads when he was out of the ISI and in the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The ISI's job does all the things the PA can not openly do within and beyond Pakistan. To treat the ISI as an independent organisation is to fall for its plausible deniability.

The Pakistan Army has a chain of command. The ISI is no more and no less jihadi than the rest of the PA. If the ISI seems schizophrenic, that is because the PA from the top down prefers to be schizophrenic rather than openly and fully commit itself one way or another.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Oct 2009 05:54

Johann, You are thinking through modern eyes at an antediluvian organization. Again try to read the original Mukahbarat's modus operandi!

Wow used an Arab and Latin words in same sentence. Only Indians can do that.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 31 Oct 2009 06:19

Ramana,

The description I wrote of the ISI's leadership, and its relation to the PA's officer corps is based first and foremost on Indian observations, corroborated by Pakistanis, and to a lesser extent by the few Westerners who really know Pakistan.

I would strongly recommend reading what people like B. Raman and Bindanda M. Chengappa have written about how the ISI is run, and by whom, and how it functions within the PA and Pakistani government. They have spent a lot of time looking at (and sometimes talking to!) the actual people in question.

I am also quite familiar with the way Mukhabarat works in countries like Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, etc.

There's a *lot* more circulation between combat commands and intelligence posts in Pakistan than those states. Consequently the PA has far fewer senior officers people who spend their careers dealing solely with intelligence/security, and officers at the top don't get to hold on to their positions for as long.

arun · Post by **arun** » 04 Nov 2009 19:59

X Posted with a Hattip to Nayak :

Famed French judge Bruguiere tells of a troubled Pakistan

In a new book, former investigative magistrate Jean-Louis Bruguiere says Pakistan has lost control of rogue military and intelligence officers, who are aiding militants.

By Sebastian Rotella
November 4, 2009

Reporting from Washington - The Pakistani government has lost control of rogue military and intelligence officers who aid Al Qaeda and its allies and play a double game with the West, a renowned French judge asserts in an upcoming book. ……………………

The book details French investigations of extremist activity in Pakistan, including a case in which officials went as far as hiding militants from CIA inspection teams at a training camp run by the Pakistani military. Military handlers then sent the trainees on terrorist missions to the West, Bruguiere asserts. ………………………..

Islamic radicals seemed to benefit from "a certain sympathy, to say the least" within Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency, he writes, citing one of his cases. "We did not have the impression that our interlocutors considered [Al Qaeda militants] to be terrorists." …………………………

"The situation in Pakistan is among the most worrisome," he writes. "The central government has lost control of certain elements of the army and the ISI, an intelligence service that no longer has the trust of its foreign partners."

The judge cites his investigation of Willie Brigitte, a Frenchman who was convicted of terrorism charges in 2007.

After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, Al Qaeda militants helped Brigitte go to Pakistan to train with hundreds of Arabs and Westerners and several thousand Pakistanis and Afghans at a mountain complex in Punjab. Affiliated with Al Qaeda, the camp was run jointly by the Lashkar-e-Taiba extremist group and Pakistani security forces, which supplied arms and instructors, the book says.

CIA officers accompanied by Pakistani officials made four inspections of the camp, part of an agreement in which Pakistan had promised to prevent foreign militants from training with Lashkar, Bruguiere writes.

"But, since most of the officers of Lashkar belonged to the army, these inspections were doomed to draw a blank," the book says. "The foreign recruits were alerted on the eve of the arrival of the inspection teams by their instructors, military men informed by their hierarchy.

"The trainees then had to . . . erase any traces of their presence and head to an elevation of more than 13,000 feet while the inspection lasted." ……………….

LA Times

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Nov 2009 22:21

I submit ISI is changing as we observe it. It is becoming the Mukhbarat of the old times. And we are not ready to understand for most of us dont know what the Mukhabrat was setup to do in early Muslim Empires. So just because its from Indian observations doesnt make it right. Most obervers have not studied early Islami history.

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Nov 2009 09:05

X Posted.

Deputy Head of the Revolutionary Guards of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Brigadier General Hossein Salami, had these words of acknowledgement for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s services in eliminating terrorism

:

Iran Says Terrorist Leader Released in Pakistan Before Bombing

By Ali Sheikholeslami

Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) ………………..

“On Sept. 27, Abdolmalek Rigi was arrested in one of the streets of Quetta but after one hour he was released following the intervention of the intelligence service of our neighboring country,”

Bloomberg

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Nov 2009 10:40

Pakistan's list of dirty military men:

ISI Chiefs
1. Lt Gen Hamid Gul: ISI Chief (March 1987 - May 1989). Afghan Jihad with the CIA, Khalistan movement against India, turned against the US when his promotion to COAS was nipped in the bud by the CIA. Member of the militant organization Ummah Tameer-e-Nau. One of the people named by BB who were trying to assassinate her. Hamid Gul and Mirza Aslam Big are often present at various LET/JUD meetings. Suspected to be the 'General' mentioned in Mumbai 26/11.

2. Lt Gen Asad Durrani: ISI Chief (August 1990 - March 1992)Starting the Kashmir Jihad after the Khalistan movement petered out. These days often blamed for killing people involved with Balochi resistance. Alleged by Nawaz Sharif of presenting a plan of selling Heroin and using money earned for covert operations in Afghanistan which CIA was not funding (Mirza Aslam Beg is also alleged to be involved as per Nawaz Sharif)
[See http://www.historycommons.org/entity.js ... _durrani_1]

3. Lt Gen Muslim Javed Nasir : IS Chief (March 1992 - May 1993). The first Pakistani general to have a full-grown beard because he was a member of the Tablighi Jamaat. Uniting the warring Afghan factions after the Soviet retreat, and installing the first Mujahideen government in Afghanistan. 1993 Bombay bomb blasts. Supply of arms, specially anti-tank missiles by airlifting them from Pakistan, to the Bosnians in defiance of the UN embargo thus helping the Bosnian muslims to defeat the Serbs. Forced to resign prematurely by US pressure. Post retirement made the chairman of the Evacuee Trust Property Board in 1997, when he tried to re-start the Khalistan movement. Soon fled the country after being involved in embezzelment of Rs 3.3 billions from the trust fund.

4. Lt Gen Mahmood Ahmed: ISI Chief (October 1999 - October 2001) during the 911 attacks in the US. Was forced to resign as the ISI chief after the US got the info that Omar Saeed Sheikh wired $100,000 to Mohd Atta at his instance and that he was instrumental in scuttling US efforts to hunt down Al Qaida and OBL in Afghanistan. He 'happened' to be in the US on the day of 911. IC-814 hijack 'happened' during his tenure. Chittisinghpura massacre on March 20, 2000.

5. Lt Gen Ehsan ul Haq: ISI Chief (October 2001 - October 2004). Kaluchak Massacre, Qasim Nagar massacre - killing of 29 Hindu labourers in Qasim Nagar on the outskirts of Jammu.

6. Lt Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani: ISI Chief (October 2004 - October 2007) and current COAS. During his tenure, India was the victim of random bomb blasts in delhi, mumbai 711 train bombings 2006, 2006 Doda Massacre - massacre of 35 Hindu civilians.

7. Lt Gen Nadeem Taj: ISI Chief (October 2007 - October 2008). 2008 Kabul Indian embassy bombings killing 58 injuring more than 150. CIA tapped telephone conversations between ISI officers and the attackers.

8. Lt Gen Ahmad Shuja Pasha: ISI Chief (October 2008 - Present). 26/11 mumbai terror attacks. Kabul Indian Embassy bombing Oct 2009 killing 17 injuring 83.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other Prominent Pakistani Militarymen involved in shady terrorist activities
1. Gen Zia-Ul-Haq: Started Islamization in Pakistan, The Afghan Jihad, Khalistani movement against India, Training of Pakistani N scientists in China and the N smuggling.

2. Gen Mirza Aslam Beg: COAS (August 17, 1988 – August 16, 1991). Suspected of being involved in Zia-ul-haq's assassination. Started the Kashmir Jihad. Alongwith Hamid Gul, active with supporting the LET/JUD. AQ Khan's N-proliferation specially the deal with Iran. Supposed to be close with Al quaida and OBL, (Old ties developed when he was commander of the XI Corps at Peshawar from 1985 to 1987).

3. Brig Ijaz Shah: Personal handler of Osama Bin Laden, Omar Saeed Sheikh (OSS). OSS surrendered himself to him and hid in his house for one week after killing Daniel Pearl, and was duly debriefed by him. Was appointed ambassador to Australia in 2004, but the Australian foreign office refused to accept him. Since he was close to Gen Pervez Musharraf, he was appointed as chief of Pakistan's Intelligence Bureau. As head of IB involved in brutally suppressing the Baloch uprising. Named by BB as one of the 4 people who were planning to assassinate her.

4. Gen Mohd. Aziz Khan: Close to all the Jihadi groups in pakistan who call him the "Blue eyed general", Was deputy director ISI. During the kargil war, RAW intercepted telephone conversation between him and Gen Pervez Musharraf where they mentioned that they "had the jihadis by the scruff of their neck and they would do as they said". As commander of X corps (The coup corps of pakistan) he undertook the coup to depose Nawaz sharif, while Pervez Musharraf was still in the air and out of contact. Before retirement he was believed to be plotting a coup to depose Pervez Musharraf.

5. Gen Pervez Musharraf: COAS (October 6, 1998 – November 28, 2007), Military Dictator (12 October 1999 - 18 August 2008).
Involved in the Battle of Asal Uttar in 1965 when Pakistan lost 97 tanks in Khem Karan.
In 1987 was repulsed from the Siachen Glacier where he was in charge of pakistani SSG. Quaid post was captured by India and renamed Bana Post, which remains in Indian hands to this day.
Brutally suppressed the Shia uprising in Gilgit under orders of Zia-ul-haq, using the support of Osama Bin Laden and his sunni terror groups.
Planned and executed the Kargil infiltration in 1999, but pakistani troops had to withdraw after losing most of the gained positions, suffering heavy losses and pressure by the US.
Was the COAS and Dictator when 911 took place, two timed the US in the war against terror. Under his command, pakistan became the number one exporter of terrorism to the whole world. He was in charge when IC 814, 711 Mumbai train bombings, numerous bombings in Indian cities, and terror massacres took place in J&K.
Ordering the assassination of Nawab Akbar Shahbaz Khan Bugti, and brutal suppression of the Balochistan freedom movement.
Oversaw the nuclear proliferation by AQ Khan to Libya, N Korea (Missiles for N tech deal), Iran - all N trade at the behest of China.
Alleged that women in Pakistan get themselves raped to get canadian visas when commenting on the issue of the gang rape of Mukhtaran Mai.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 10 Nov 2009 17:26

^^ Indian embassy bombing in Kabul. Add that to list too. Good work.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 10 Nov 2009 18:47

^^^ Here is something else to credit Musharraf with:

Gilgit had seen similar unrest in 1988, but one of the causes of the unrest then was the demand of the Shias for an independent Karakoram State. Musharraf, who was asked by Zia-ul-Haq to control the situation, brutally suppressed the Shia revolt with the help of Osama bin Laden and his Sunni tribal hordes brought in from the NWFP.

In its issue of May,1990, "Herald", the monthly journal of the "Dawn" group of publications of Karachi, wrote as follows: " In May,1988, low-intensity political rivalry and sectarian tension ignited into full-scale carnage as thousands of armed tribesmen from outside Gilgit district invaded Gilgit along the Karakoram Highway. Nobody stopped them. They destroyed crops and houses, lynched and burnt people to death in the villages around Gilgit town. The number of dead and injured was put in the hundreds. But numbers alone tell nothing of the savagery of the invading hordes and the chilling impact it has left on these peaceful valleys."

Gen. Musharraf started a policy of bringing in Punjabis and Pakhtoons from outside and settling them down in Gilgit and Baltistan in order to reduce the Kashmiri Shias to a minority in their traditional land and this is continuing till today. The "Friday Times" of October 15-21, 1992, quoted Mr. Muhammad Yahya Shah, a local Shia leader, as saying: " We were ruled by the Whites during the British days. We are now being ruled by the Browns from the plains. The rapid settling-in of Punjabis and Pakhtoons from outside, particularly the trading classes, has created a sense of acute insecurity among the local Shias."

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers3/paper289.html

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Nov 2009 21:44

The surprising thing is that with the exception of Muslim Javed Nasir and Zia-ul-Haq, all of them are the whiskey swilling crowd. It is this core of pakistani military men, that is the most dangerous, and is in cahoots with the islamists in pakistan wether LET/JUD Al Qaida or the other sunni - wahabi terror outfits. They use the ordinary jihadi as cannon fodder, give him targets and have been involved with planning and executing terrorist attacks all over the world.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 10 Nov 2009 23:42

Gagan wrote:The surprising thing is that with the exception of Muslim Javed Nasir and Zia-ul-Haq, all of them are the whiskey swilling crowd. It is this core of pakistani military men, that is the most dangerous, and is in cahoots with the islamists in pakistan wether LET/JUD Al Qaida or the other sunni - wahabi terror outfits. They use the ordinary jihadi as cannon fodder, give him targets and have been involved with planning and executing terrorist attacks all over the world.

Perhaps we can explain the seeming contradiction by noting that all of Pakistan is founded and run on a basis of Muslim Supremacism (a doctrine very much like Nazism), and this doctrine is not identical to Muslim fundamentalism or piety. Even Muslim fundamentalism can have many shades of interpretation--you have to interpret any time you put something into practice.

Just as there are Muslim supremacists who drink whisky & eat pork, I would expect there to be pious, bearded, burkha-ed etc Muslims who aren't supremacists (probably not in Pakistan but surely in India). In the Indian context, we would be making a mistake by not paying attention to th distinction. For one thing, if we conflate the two categories (fundamentalism and supremacism) then it would be possible for supremacists to conceal their true nature by pointing to counterexamples of fundamentalists who are patently not supremacists, and genuinely peaceful, good etc.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Nov 2009 23:46

Gagan, What you see is that along with Islamization of TSPA, the ISI was becoming the Mukhabarat for the TSPA, starting from the 1980s. However since most of us dont know what it is and also ISI was best buddies of US agencies there is a veil nay a blinder on the metamorphosis that has taken place.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 11 Nov 2009 02:03

The surprising thing is that with the exception of Muslim Javed Nasir and Zia-ul-Haq, all of them are the whiskey swilling crowd.

Javed Nasir was also a part of the whiskey drinking and womanizing crowd. WHen he started running our of juice, he joined the HT and became a preacher.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 11 Nov 2009 05:04

Mhd Aziz Khan looks like Prannoy James Roy's daddy

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Nov 2009 17:32

Javed is an out and out crook... Only in pureland will someone like this go so high.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 11 Nov 2009 21:59

Check this out - Various newspaper links about No 4 on the list Lt Gen Mahmood Ahmed. Scroll down to the part where 911 has happened, and see the fun begin.

Link

One can search this site with the names of all the guys mentioned here for more info. This link and this website is definitely worth saving.

Summer 2000: Saeed Sheikh Frequently Calls ISI Director

In 2002, French author Bernard-Henri Levy is presented evidence by government officials in New Delhi, India, that Saeed Sheikh makes repeated calls to ISI Director Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed during the summer of 2000. Later, Levy gets unofficial confirmation from sources in Washington regarding these calls that the information he was given in India is correct. He notes that someone in the United Arab Emirates using a variety of aliases sends Mohamed Atta slightly over $100,000 between June and September of this year (see June 29, 2000-September 18, 2000 and (July-August 2000)), and the timing of these phone calls and the money transfers may have been the source of news reports that Mahmood Ahmed ordered Saeed Sheikh to send $100,000 to Mohamed Atta (see October 7, 2001). However, he also notes that there is evidence of Sheikh sending Atta $100,000 in August 2001 (see Early August 2001), so the reports could refer to that, or both $100,000 transfers could involve Mahmood Ahmed, Saeed Sheikh, and Mohamed Atta. [Levy, 2003, pp. 320-324]

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 11 Nov 2009 22:11

Search for Mohammad Atta on historycommons.org
The Smoking Gun:
Late 1998-August 10, 1999: Pakistani Air Force Pilot Temporarily Replaces Alshehhi as Atta’s Roommate

Hijacker Marwan Alshehhi moved to Bonn, Germany in 1996, and studied German there. He then lived in Hamburg for several months in 1998, and returned to Bonn after failing a language exam. Just as he leaves town, a Pakistani student named Atif bin Mansour arrives in Hamburg, and begins living and studying together with Mohamed Atta. Early in 1999, Mansour applies with Atta for a room to hold a new Islamic study group. Mansour is a pilot on leave from the Pakistani Air Force. As the Los Angeles Times puts it, “This in itself is intriguing—a Pakistani pilot? Investigators acknowledge they haven’t figured out Mansour’s role in the plot, if any.” On this day, Mansour’s brother, also in the Pakistani armed forces, is killed (along with 15 other officers) when his surveillance plane is shot down by India. Mansour returns home and was detained and stopped from returning to Germany. Soon afterwards, Alshehhi returns to Hamburg. According to Mansoor’s father, “Atif was detained because he had not sought permission from the authorities before returning home to attend his younger brother’s funeral.” Then he is set free with assistance from a relative and works on Pakistani air force base. Contacted on his mobile phone by a reporter, Mansour says, “I won’t be able to speak further on such a sensitive issue.” [Rediff, 7/17/2002; Los Angeles Times, 9/1/2002; Washington Post, 9/11/2002] In March 2001, Mohamed Atta applies together with a Pakistani Air Force pilot for a security job with Lufthansa Airlines (see February 15, 2001). This pilot is a member of the same Islamic study group as Mansour, but it’s not clear if this is Mansour and he did come back to or stay in Germany, or if Atta was associating with a second Pakistani Air Force pilot. [Roth, 2001, pp. 9f; Newsday, 1/24/2002] The FBI later notes that Alshehhi arrived “almost as a replacement” for Mansour. After 9/11, the FBI asks Pakistan if the flight lieutenant and squad leader Mansour can be found and questioned about any possible role he may have had in the 9/11 plot, but there’s no indication Pakistan as to whether has ever agreed to this request. [Rediff, 7/17/2002] In late 2002, the German Federal Bureau of Criminal Investigations will say that Mansour remains “a very interesting figure.” [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/2002]

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Nov 2009 22:23

Gagan, Looks like the 911 perpetrators were from the external division of ISI. By that I mean they were non TSp types recruited for acts outside the sub-continent.

I note that "David Headley" formerly known as Daoud Gilani guy will eventually be linked to this genre of ISI activity. Its matter of time. All his visits to India don't make sense for a wolf pack.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 11 Nov 2009 23:04

IOW,
Daniel pearl was killed because he was trying to track down Omar Sayeed Seikh and trying to establish the link of 9/11 to ISI pakistan.

Pervez Musharraf in a press conference after pearl was killed, had warned the journalists to not step out of line and put "your nose where it didn't belong" IIRC were the exact words that were used.

[Washington Post, 3/28/2002] Musharraf even brazenly states, “Perhaps Daniel Pearl was over-intrusive. A media person should be aware of the dangers of getting into dangerous areas. Unfortunately, he got over-involved.” [Hindu, 3/8/2002] He also says Pearl was caught up in “intelligence games.”

Again from the site:
December 24, 2001-January 23, 2002: Reporter Daniel Pearl Investigates Sensitive Topics in Pakistan

Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl writes stories about the ISI that will lead to his kidnapping and murder (see January 31, 2002).
* On December 24, 2001, he reports about ties between the ISI and a Pakistani organization, Ummah Tameer-e-Nau, that was working on giving bin Laden nuclear secrets before 9/11 (see 2000 and Mid-August 2001). [Wall Street Journal, 12/24/2001]
* A few days later, he reports that the ISI-supported militant organization Jaish-e-Mohammed still has its office running and bank accounts working, even though President Pervez Musharraf claims to have banned the group. The Jaish-i-Mohammed is connected to the Al Rashid Trust, one of the first entities whose assets were frozen by the US after 9/11 and through which funding may have passed on its way to the hijackers in the US (see Early August 2001 and September 24, 2001). “If [Pearl] hadn’t been on the ISI’s radarscope before, he was now.” [Wall Street Journal, 12/31/2001; Guardian, 7/16/2002; Vanity Fair, 8/2002]
* He begins investigating links between shoe bomber Richard Reid and Pakistani militants, and comes across connections to the ISI and a mysterious religious group called Al-Fuqra. [Washington Post, 2/23/2002]
* He also may be looking into the US training and backing of the ISI. [Gulf News, 3/25/2002]
* He is writing another story on Dawood Ibrahim, a powerful Islamic militant and gangster protected by the ISI, and other Pakistani organized crime figures. [Newsweek, 2/4/2002; Vanity Fair, 8/2002]
* Former CIA agent Robert Baer later claims to be working with Pearl on an investigation of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. [United Press International, 4/9/2004] It is later suggested that Mohammed masterminds both Reid’s shoe bomb attempt and the Pearl kidnapping, and has connections to Pakistani gangsters and the ISI, so some of these explanations could fit together. [Asia Times, 10/30/2002; CNN, 1/30/2003; United Press International, 4/9/2004] Kidnapper Saeed will later say of Pearl, “Because of his hyperactivity he caught our interest.” [News (Islamabad), 2/15/2002] Pearl is kidnapped on January 23, 2002, and his murder is confirmed on February 22, 2002. [CNN, 2/22/2002]

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 11 Nov 2009 23:31

Javed is an out and out crook... Only in pureland will someone like this go so high.

When he was ISI director, he commuted to/from Pindi - Lahore in a special ISI plane, C130 most likely.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Nov 2009 01:59

ramana wrote:Gagan, Looks like the 911 perpetrators were from the external division of ISI. By that I mean they were non TSp types recruited for acts outside the sub-continent.

I note that "David Headley" formely known as Daoud Gilani guy will eventually be linked ot this genre of ISI activity. Its matter of time. All his visits to India don't make sense for a wolf pack.

G. Parthasarathy links them in his op-ed in Pioneer

The prime accused, Daood Gilani aka David Headley, was in touch with Ilyas Kashmiri, a former Pakistan Army commando of Pakistan’s elite Special Services Group. Kashmiri was used by the ISI in the 1980s for training the Afghan mujahideen and in the 1990s for terrorism in Jammu & Kashmir. He escaped after being captured by Indian forces in Poonch in 1994. Interestingly, while Kashmiri was later charged with an attempt to assassinate Gen Pervez Musharraf and for the assassination of a former commander of the SSG, Maj Gen Faisal Alvi in 2008, he was allowed to get away and seek refuge in North Waziristan alongside Afghan Taliban military commander Sirajuddin Haqqani, who Gen Kayani reportedly regards as a ‘strategic asset’ of the ISI.

Guys this thread is a serious data gathering thread. If all you have to do is post one-liners or smileys do it elsewhere.

Thanks, ramana

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 Nov 2009 11:03

Justice is served.

The uniformed ISI jihadi’s of the armed forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan who for so long fomented jihadi terrorists targeting India are in turn targeted by un-uniformed jihadi terrorists:

Bombers hit ISI building, police station in Pak; 10 dead

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 13 Nov 2009 11:36

arun wrote:Justice is served.

The uniformed ISI jihadi’s of the armed forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan who for so long fomented jihadi terrorists targeting India are in turn targeted by un-uniformed jihadi terrorists:

Bombers hit ISI building, police station in Pak; 10 dead

I am 400% sure that this was a self-goal to show the West how serious they are in confronting the Taleban. Why chose to destroy the building at dawn on a holiday (Friday) when there is nobody at work? The only casualties were the hired security guards.

Hope the people who matter see through the charade.

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Nov 2009 18:38

X Posted.

The ISI's adroit milking of funds from the US.

Malayappan wrote:Just as we thought things cannot get more open, we have this! A keeper. Good reference and citation value!

CIA says it gets its money's worth from Pakistani spy agency.

By Greg Miller, November 15, 2009, Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... full.story

Some excerpts -

CIA has funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to Pakistan's intelligence service since the Sept. 11 attacks, accounting for as much as one-third of the foreign spy agency's annual budget, current and former U.S. officials say.
U.S. officials have continued the funding because the ISI's assistance is considered crucial: Almost every major terrorist plot this decade has originated in Pakistan's tribal belt, where ISI informant networks are a primary source of intelligence.

Despite deep misgivings about the ISI, the official said, "there was no other game in town."

"There really are two ISIs," the former CIA operative said. "On the counter-terrorism side, those guys were in lock-step with us," the former operative said. "And then there was the 'long-beard' side. Those are the ones who created the Taliban and are supporting groups like Haqqani."
"We would show up in someone's office, offer our thanks, and we would leave behind a briefcase full of $100 bills, sometimes totaling more than a million in a single transaction," Tenet wrote.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 15 Nov 2009 20:23

Now here is the half truth and untruth mixed in one sentence.

U.S. officials have continued the funding because the ISI's assistance is considered crucial: Almost every major terrorist plot this decade has originated in Pakistan's tribal belt, where ISI informant networks are a primary source of intelligence.

The complete truth is as follows:
1. Every major terrorist attack has links to the Pakistani ISI and the terrorist organization it created, and continues to share information with and shield.
2. The terrorist attacks are NOT planned in the tribal belt. They are planned in islamabad and lahore among other pakistani cities. The work is off shored as we've seen in the Daoud Gilani's case, to people who are living in the west and are jet setting to reconnoiter the sites for terror attacks and plan the fine moves.
3. Surely the targets and nature of the attack and basic intel comes from the ISI. The planners then go ahead with recce and plan out the moves, these would be vetted by the ISI again, the terrorists and weapons are provided from the ISI / Pak fauj special quota for terrorists, and then the green light comes from the COAS / Core Commander group / ISI chief.

The most important thing to note is that the pak fauj does NOT trust the jeehadi tanzeems. The common terrorist is disarmed as soon as he steps out of his camp, returns from a mission in kashmir. Weapons are only given to then in the camp when training, or just before they cross over to commit a terrorist act. The weapons are stored probably in a pak fauj garrison - maybe this is why most terrorist training camps are in close proximity to a pak fauj garrison.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 15 Nov 2009 21:02

of the discussion so far read in BRF, couple of catogories, discussions and threads needs to be analysed.

1. Only a selective ISI/ARMY seems to get knocked off.
2. The replacement are made by beared ones.

This could be a strategy to get in all the beared ones, as for the last couple of months we seem to be seeing only modarate ones meeting their 72. I trust IA/RAW is keeping a tab on this

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Nov 2009 15:21

X Posted.

SSridhar wrote:ISI Helped Mullah Omar flee from Quetta to Karachi

This may not be connected with Headley/Rana, but facts are tumbling out at a rapid pace ever since their arrest.

"There are huge madrassas in Karachi where Mullah Omar could easily be kept," he said.

The Washington Times article mentioned.

Pretty damning about the ISI’s role in sheltering Mullah Omar:

Friday, November 20, 2009

EXCLUSIVE: Taliban chief hides among Pakistan populace

Eli Lake, Sara A. Carter and Barbara Slavin THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Mullah Mohammed Omar, the one-eyed leader of the Afghan Taliban, has fled a Pakistani city on the border with Afghanistan and found refuge from potential U.S. attacks in the teeming Pakistani port city of Karachi with the assistance of Pakistan's intelligence service, three current and former U.S. intelligence officials said. ...................

Two senior U.S. intelligence officials and one former senior CIA officer told The Washington Times that Mullah Omar traveled to Karachi last month after the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. He inaugurated a new senior leadership council in Karachi, a city that so far has escaped U.S. and Pakistani counterterrorism campaigns, the officials said.

The officials, two of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the topic, said Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency, the ISI, helped the Taliban leaders move from Quetta, where they were exposed to attacks by unmanned U.S. drones.

The development reinforces suspicions that the ISI, which helped create the Taliban in the 1990s to expand Pakistani influence in Afghanistan, is working against U.S. interests in Afghanistan as the Obama administration prepares to send more U.S. troops to fight there.

Bruce Riedel, a CIA veteran and analyst on al Qaeda and the Taliban, confirmed that Mullah Omar had been spotted in Karachi recently.

"Some sources claim the ISI decided to move him further from the battlefield to keep him safe" from U.S. drone attacks, said Mr. Riedel, who headed the Obama administration's review of policy for Afghanistan and Pakistan last spring. "There are huge madrassas in Karachi where Mullah Omar could easily be kept." ……………………

A second senior intelligence officer who specializes in monitoring al Qaeda said U.S. intelligence had confirmed Mullah Omar's move through both electronic and human sources as well as intelligence from an unnamed allied service......................

Washington Times

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Nov 2009 17:34

If Washington encourages the 'good Taliban' of which Mullah Omar seems to be one, and if Karzai welcomes a power sharing arrangement with them and King Abdullah of KSA holds discussions with the Karzai & Taliban representatives simultaneously, and if there is a talk at the highest levels of the Allied countries of an 'unwinnable war', I do not blame Pakistan protecting its assets.

Let's face it. When the US, at its highest echelons of power decided to allow Pakistan develop its nuclear arsenal and their delivery systems, some lower-level CIA analysts who were unaware of the game, diligently caught those who tried to smuggle dual-use components etc only to end up cutting a sorry figure. The same thing is happening here. At the highest level, the US is thinking of an exit and is moving towards that. ISI is therefore sensing victory and is thumbing its nose.

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Dec 2009 08:08

Kamran Shafi of Dawn receives death threats and had his house shot at.

Shafi believes that “the threat were from inside the powerful security establishment, possibly from the military’s intelligence arm, Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI.”:

Pakistani Journalist Critical of the Military Is Threatened

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Dec 2009 10:16

Check out how many topics on India in Pak paper

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... olumnists/

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 01 Dec 2009 19:31

Friday, November 20, 2009

EXCLUSIVE: Taliban chief hides among Pakistan populace

A second senior intelligence officer who specializes in monitoring al Qaeda said U.S. intelligence had confirmed Mullah Omar's move through both electronic and human sources as well as intelligence from an unnamed allied service......................

Washington Times

[/quote]
The unnamed allied service is India.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Dec 2009 09:11

This Daily Telegraph article posted by Malayappan certainly deserves multiple X Posts.

I am not surprised that the Islamic Jihadi terrorist Willie Brigitte was trained by the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. The Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan was merely living out the latter part of their motto of “Iman. Taqwa. Jihad-fi-Sabilillah” or translated into English “Faith, Piety, Jihad in the path of Allah”

Malayappan wrote:Willie Brigitte was trained by Pakistan militaryThe Daily Telegraph

Actually finding it difficult to post excerpts as there are too many specific references!

WHEN Willie Brigitte was sent to Pakistan for terrorist training, he thought his identity would be safe.

A fair assumption, since it has just been revealed it was rogue elements in Pakistan's own army that trained, armed and deployed him to Australia to carry out a terrorist attack.

Transcripts from in-camera evidence in his 2007 trial reveal Pakistan security forces supplied trainers and arms to Lashkar-e-Toiba extremists as they trained hundreds of foreign operatives in a complex in the mountains

One army/LET officer Brigitte met was called Sajid and it is he who sent the French national to Sydney to link up with an already established terror cell. It is Sajid who British M15 now suspect has plotted - and is still plotting - a terror attack in Britain.

There is an Interpol warrant for his arrest as well as a number of Pakistan military and intelligence officers identified as terrorists.