Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

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ManuT
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Re: Are We Ready for a Two-front War ?

Post by ManuT »

Christopher Sidor wrote:  Alliances are built, by two or more countries. Not all of these countries have the same interest.
To keep it short, I meant alliances that reduces the countries  that come to the aid of the enemy there by reducing it's options. Aim is for them to feel the pressure  of the World opinion to end the conflict rather than being subjected to such  pressures. 

This is elemanarty stuff we already know, and I feel a little silly saying this, I am only stating it for emphasis.
Let me say countries can have a common interest. it need not be the same interest. For example, a buyer and a seller. They do not have the same interest but they have a common interest. The commonality of the interest is for the transaction to go through. They may differ about cash or credit but they can discuss that. Repurcussions are for both if the deal fails.

 So you work with the allies that have a common interest.

P.S. Can we drop the ji part. Thanks.  
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Re: Are We Ready for a Two-front War ?

Post by RamaY »

ManuT wrote: The following are the challenges for the Indian Civilization, in my world.

1. To make available the food surplus to India's hungry.
2. To eradicate female infacticide.
3. To make avilable urea free milk to babies.
4. Promotion of lead free paints in house paints and toys for kids.
5. To provide life saving Emergency Ambulatory services to its population.
6. Preventing of mixing of used engine oil from vehicles with ground water.

Geo-politics is for me is about finding friends to dislocate the enemy. Yes, after 1947 from my understanding the West tried to recruit India for the West, one the reason was the 2 million plus IA, failing which it recuited Pakistan to go for plan B. Aim was containment of Communism.
What your points have to do with Geopolitics, especially the definition you have given above?

How can lead-free paint or urea-free-milk or engine-oil free vehicles get you the friends to dislocate the enemy?

ManuT-ji - Nothing wrong with your view or priorities. What you suggest are good points. But geopolitics are at much above level, and civilization is even a higher concept. Think like this - In a large corporation like setup; your ideas/priorities are like an employee doing their job. Geopolitics are like Corp. Marketing dept. Civilization is like CEO/Chairman/Chief-strategist type work. We definitely need a common employee do his work diligently and with quality. But that alone will not make the corporation successful.
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Re: Are We Ready for a Two-front War ?

Post by RamaY »

ManuT wrote:Geo-politics is for me is about finding friends to dislocate the enemy. Yes, after 1947 from my understanding the West tried to recruit India for the West, one the reason was the 2 million plus IA, failing which it recuited Pakistan to go for plan B. Aim was containment of Communism.
Why did you stop at 1947? Go a little deeper and you will find that Pakistan was plan B before 1947.

Once you understand go a little deeper - 100 years of history at a time. Once you reach circa 500AD you will get first siddhi in "ashta siddhis". Don't stop there and continue to dig even deeper. Circa 250BC you will get second siddhi... and around 3000BC you will get third Siddhi. All modern knowledge stops there... but Indic knowledge has five more siddhis beyond that point in history... explore for yourself.
Christopher Sidor
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Re: Are We Ready for a Two-front War ?

Post by Christopher Sidor »

ManuT wrote:
Christopher Sidor wrote:  Alliances are built, by two or more countries. Not all of these countries have the same interest.
To keep it short, I meant alliances that reduces the countries  that come to the aid of the enemy there by reducing it's options. Aim is for them to feel the pressure  of the World opinion to end the conflict rather than being subjected to such  pressures. 
...........
...........
Alliances are vehicles of convenience. We had one with America, it lasted from 1962 till 1971. We had one with the soviets, which lasted from 1971-1989. Point to be noted, Russia saw itself as a successor state to soviet union. Based on that it kept its seat in the UN Security Council. In spite of viewing itself a successor state, it did not keep its treaty of friendship and cooperation with India.
Moreover alliances do not result in other partners of the alliance coming to ones aid when required. For example the Polish-British or Czechoslovakia-French alliance in 1939-40 did not result in any relief for Poland or the Czechoslovakia. This was despite the fact that Britian and France were bigger powers compared to nazi germany in 1939 and 1940.

If we were to enter a alliance against China, then our potential partners will be
1) USA. A dreadful choice. America's history with India has been bad. And its recent actions in Af-Pak theater should be an eye opener for everybody who moots for such a India-US alliance.
2) Japan. Japan came out of a decade of recession because of China. And China will this Fiscal year overtake Japan as its biggest economy in Asia. Japan needs China right now. There is nothing ruling out a rapprochement between china and japan. All of their recent 200 year history notwithstanding.
3) Korea/South Korea. China has always seen itself as a natural protector of Korea. And Korea is not adverse to it also. In fact once north korea problem is resolved, we can expect very close relationship between korea and china. something on lines of india - maldives.

In fact in any of alliance which we enter right now, we will be a junior partner. We will be the tail that the dog wags.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ManuT »

CS 
It didn't save the Czechs but it did the Brits :). Anyways, India is too big to be a tail and that gives it leverage.

About US, because the history has been bad does not mean the future is the same, and we are condemned to repeat it. 
US, needs to be educated, at least, the one country Pakistan should be allowed to feed its garbage. It is an open society in the sense that there is no doubt how wikileakers would have been treated by say China. What to say about japan or S Korea even HK does not want to be under China, if it had a choice. I an quoting someone when I say that during the cold war none of the defectors defected to China because they knew of the reality of systems there. Maldives is one example, IMO, that should not be an example in the context you mention.  Remember Parashute Regiment bailing out the Maldives govt's existence in the 1980s. I have news, to be a citizen of Maldives you have to be a Sunni Muslim !? So much for promoting pluralism and democracy in your own backyard and maldives is a small garden pot in the backyard.  It is a miniature version of KSA.  At the very least GOI should have installed a govt which drafted a pluralistic constitution even if there were no minorities.  This is neglect in building alliances, IMO. 

RamaY: sorry to crash the party, but us kids got moved from another thread. I can see it caused a little comfusion, and my posts same part of that appear to be broken.   
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by prahaar »

RamaY, are you referring back to the reason for Narsimha avataar and other Dasha-avataars? Sorry, if I read too much into it, but your post intrigued me.
ramana
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ramana »

A couple of stories on Arjun Singh's revelations on Bhopla case

Arjun breaks silence, points finger at Rao on Anderson exit

Its from PTI and is repeated everywhere.

A thing to recall is Arjun Singh didnt want to give up the post of leader of the Hosue even after PVNR was elected to the Lok Sabha.

He and Pawar had agreed to let PVNR be the PM in 1991 after RG's death till they could sort it out.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ManuT »

X posted
Ambar wrote:
Thomas Kolarek wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_% ... _relations
Military cooperation

Pakistan maintains close military ties with Saudi Arabia, providing extensive support, arms and training for the Military of Saudi Arabia.[2] Pilots of the Pakistan Air Force flew aircraft of the Royal Saudi Air Force to repel an incursion from South Yemen in 1969. In the 1970s and 1980s, approximately 15,000 Pakistani soldiers were stationed in the kingdom.[2] Saudi Arabia has negotiated the purchase of Pakistani ballistic missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads.[2] It is also speculated that Saudi Arabia secretly funded Pakistan's nuclear programme and seeks to purchase atomic weapons from Pakistan to enable it to counteract possible threats from arsenals of the weapons of mass destruction possessed by Iran, Iraq and Israel.[5][6][7] Both nations have received high-level delegations of scientists, government and military experts seeking to study the development of a nuclear programme.[5][8][2]
That is a well known fact.Pakis serving as instructors and consultants to UAE af is purely for monetary purposes and not a strategic design.UAE has nothing to gain by fighting for Pakis in a war against India, but Pakis have everything to lose by not helping UAE quell its enemies.
1. I detect a little naivete' in that part of the comment.
2. Remember these 2 facts.
(a) Do not forget - 3 countries recognized the Taliban regime in Afghanistan - TSP, UAE, KSA.
(b) UAE - home of D-company and a hub for ISI.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Muppalla »

I do not know the right thread but putting it here as this is a pointer to the future of leadership

PM remarks on Nehru irked Sonia
The recent remarks by Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh on the country's first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru appear to have rubbed 10 Janpath the wrong way, if party sources are to be believed.

Making things worse, a number of Union ministers, MPs and All India Congress Committee functionaries are reportedly upset at the manner in which Dr Singh -- at the media interaction with print media editors -- has tried to project himself a better administrator and manager than Nehru and even Indira Gandhi.
Another overtly emphatic statement by the prime minister stating, "I am not retiring" has become a matter of intense speculation in the Congress circles, particularly since this was the second time that Dr Singh made the assertion.

Sources say the statement does not spell good news for the prime minister and is being seen as his way of putting at rest speculation of his disconnect with Sonia Gandhi and reports that he may well be on the way out.
But a quote from the prime minister which appears to have been underplayed by the media and which could be the most damaging was related to Rahul Gandhi. During his interaction, When Dr Singh was asked to react to Rahul Gandhi "spreading his wings and moving beyond the Youth Congress", he first laughed and then replied, "In politics, there is competition and everybody is looking for this chair."

Was the prime minister clearly indicating that Rahul was now eyeing his chair and he was looking at him as his immediate competitor. Interesting question, particularly if the comment is read with his definitive assertion, "I am not retiring".
paging Rudradev - In one of the Paki threads, I wrote that MMS is now powerful than Rajmata. Here is another pointer :)
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Bharath.Subramanyam »

Got some news from a reliable Delhi source:

"Yuvaraj" was supposed to take over after 2014 or just in 2013 mid. But the party is going to face a bad defeat in UP. Mayawati is running a very effective campaign & political run-up from now itself. Even with massive amounts of Media management, Congress is not able to put up a presence all over UP. In all probability, Mayawati will come back in UP in 2012 elections. Surveys indicate that.

So "Yuvaraj" cannot be shown as a lead campaigner or man behind Congress wheel in UP, as it will lose. Earlier Congress party strategists thought very there is solid caste alliance behind it (Muslim + Brahmin + bit of Kurmi + bit of Harijan). But Mayawati has ensured that her Harijan base is untouched. Even the Kurmi votes that came with Beni Prasad Verma is not sure of coming this time to Congress in UP. Every single community has become a floating group (every single group wants a big price for their vote). The Brahmin & Kurmi vote is also will go to the winner.

Due to these reasons, instead of "Yuvaraj" been shown as the great soldier who defeted 'casteist' Mayawati in 2012 and then promoted to bring in 'change' & 'youth factor' in 2014, party wants to install the Yuvaraj right away.

Already some time back, it was decided by party strategists that 'Yuvaraj' as PM cannot handle very clever & cunning people like PC, Kapil Sibal etc. Home ministry under 'Yuvaraj' will go to Digvijay Singh, HRD will go to Keshava Rao (these people can be handled). MMS doesn't want to leave immediately. He feels that after his 10 years, every single problem will be blamed on him, just like what is being blamed on Narashima Rao. MMS is refusing to quit the Chair.

So, this targeting of the government functioning by Party (Digvijay Singh taking on PC, Keshava Rao taking on Kapil Sibal etc).

There is going to be more & more pressure on MMS & the seniors to quit.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by vera_k »

^^^

Does the source think that the Maoists are being supported by the Yuvaraj-Digvijay-Kesava cabal?
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by brihaspati »

They still have a card to play and experiment with. Using one sister to engage another "sister"-ji. She has a certain air of being more effective in the "charm" offensive even if way behind in grassroots presence. But ammijaan should allow her out as ahe may actually change equations in upper Ganges if she gives up on jeans for good and follws ammijaan's cues in dress and deportment. The people there still look for an acknowledgment of the traditional culture. If she loses out, it still doesn't redound on bro. Only problem is that the coterie who hopes to gain by the rise of the bro, may not want this to be tried out. Dynastic politics is always ridden by this shifting factional composition problem. But future belongs to the sis. And she will perhaps be the last one to hold it all together. I will reserve comments on comparisons with daadijaan though.

The Mao-sympathy brigade is posturing only - a kind of hedging of bets, a signal to indicate readiness to continue or give more to reds if they continue to act to eliminate opposition, in return for electoral benefits.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ramana »

Gandhi, "To the Protagonists of Pakistan (Gandhi series)"
Publisher: A.T. Hingorani - Karachi | 1947 | ASIN B0007JI2A4 | 268 pages |
Gandhi had many critics in the international peace movement. The Nobel Committee adviser referred to these critics in maintaining that he was not consistently pacifist, that he should have known that some of his non-violent campaigns towards the British would degenerate into violence and terror. This was something that had happened during the first Non-Cooperation Campaign in 1920-1921, e.g. when a crowd in Chauri Chaura, the United Provinces, attacked a police station, killed many of the policemen and then set fire to the police station.
A frequent criticism from non-Indians was also that Gandhi was too much of an Indian nationalist. In his report, Professor Worm-Müller exed his own doubts as to whether Gandhi's ideals were meant to be universal or primarily Indian: "One might say that it is significant that his well-known struggle in South Africa was on behalf of the Indians only, and not of the blacks whose living conditions were even worse."

Based on a telegram from Reuters, The Times, on September 27, 1947, under the headline "Mr. Gandhi on 'war' with Pakistan" reported:
"Mr. Gandhi told his prayer meeting to-night that, though he had always opposed all warfare, if there was no other way of securing justice from Pakistan and if Pakistan persistently refused to see its proved error and continued to minimise it, the Indian Union Government would have to go to war against it. No one wanted war, but he could never advise anyone to put up with injustice. If all Hindus were annihilated for a just cause he would not mind. If there was war, the Hindus in Pakistan could not be fifth columnists. If their loyalty lay not with Pakistan they should leave it. Similarly Muslims whose loyalty was with Pakistan should not stay in the Indian Union."
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by brihaspati »

Her ddadijaan too did not have the political know-how when she started off - she did not work up through the grassroots - even her great grandpa had greater exposure to grassroots. She has an appearance projection of her daadijaan which can be used by image makers [ a typically upper Indian mix where the Italian component has been greatly diluted and with which the wide-eyed can still cheer up where the daadijaans more Indic face floats in the background].

She does not need to be extra-intelligent or political comment savvy. That will grow gradually except she does not have great examples around to pick up from. The few times I have observed her however it seems that she is shrewd enough and to a much greater extent than the bro. She also has something - what I call the "Evita" touch - if she chooses to exercise it. Don't ask me to explain this. She can choose to use this to keep a ring of capable courtiers in thrall. No more can be said. This is a family friendly forum. :P

By playing "weak" and "inexperienced" she can actually become the apparent best choice for several hawks competing with each other and looking for a weak leader for the top spot -- one who therefore will not let their hated rivals occupy the chair, while holding out hopes for personal rapport to each.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by vera_k »

In that case, how about Varun? Present day Congress only needs a Gandhi nametag to rally around.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by brihaspati »

prad ji,
what I missed in your post's reply was the significant phrase about P displacing S and R. Within the family, displacements do not happen in such straightforward way. It is the ambition of the coteries around them which constantly ebb and flow and force them to displace each other.

Vera_k ji,
the networks had shunned skygod and clustered around moongod for a long long time. Around them therefore a lot of resources investments have already been made. Investments once made have an inertia of their own. It will be difficult for all that investment in political, monetary, embedded interests to lose suddenly by turning attention to skygod. Moreover in his anger, he has stamped himself in a way that makes it impossible for him to be taken on in any ROPophile front [necessary in an area with a minimum 20% electoral strength, i.e., GV, and much more in other less tangible but equally important impact factors such as intimidation, smuggling networks and deniable revenue generation etc].
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by RajeshA »

ARMING WITHOUT AIMING: INDIA’S MILITARY MODERNIZATION: Book Launch Event on September 9, 2010 @Brookings Institute

Ashley Tellis @Transcript Page 17:

It {This book} comes at a great time because I think it is fair to say that at the moment, Indian defense policy is in crisis. It’s in crisis for at least two reasons. One, the external environment that India had planned its military forces for since independence is steadily changing before the eyes of Indian policymakers. The kind of threats India is going to face from Pakistan, which are threats that emerge increasingly from weakness, are not the kind of threats that the Indian military is the best instrument to cope with. And the kinds of capabilities that India is going to face on the Chinese front, which traditionally were premised on the assumption of persistent Chinese weakness, are actually being transformed as we speak into fundamental Chinese strengths, emerging Chinese strengths. And it is still not clear at this point whether India’s military capacities will enable it to hold its own vis-à-vis a modern Chinese military, particularly if China’s political and strategic intentions towards India were to change.

So, there are clearly changes in the external environment that are taking place as we speak and, if for no other reason, ought to confront Indian policymakers with the need to revisit the premises on which their military modernization has been undertaken over the last two decades.

There’s a second dimension of change which is just as significant, and that is, it is becoming quite clear now that there is significant internal sclerosis in India’s defense decision-making in a wide range of issue areas and this has the consequence of preventing India from being able to utilize the military capabilities that it actually has into political outcomes that it would seek to procure. And this goes fundamentally to issues of state capacity which I’m going to talk about in a few minutes. So, when one looks at the nature of the beast, the only element of continuity that I see still persisting in Indian defense policy is the point that Michael made with great emphasis, that is India’s strong cultural impulses to restraint still remain more or less intact.

We are not assured that these cultural impulses and the propensity to restraint will survive in perpetuity, but for the foreseeable future the fact that India chose not to respond to the tragedy of Bombay through the use of force leaves one to be at least cautiously optimistic that when it comes to broad cultural propensities about the use of force, change in this area is going to be slower than otherwise.

But in the other two areas, the changes in the external environment and changes in terms of India’s own internal capacities to deal with external threats, I think the story is more pessimistic. And so this book comes at a time when the Indian state is, in a sense, grappling with how best to deal with these challenges.

And I must say it comes from on top of a great deal of Indian writing and Indian soul-searching in the last five years, particularly actually starting since after the war over Kargil, but increasing in the last five years. But the Indian state now has the resources to go out and buy the toys that its military may want to buy and this has led to a great deal of intellectual ferment with different constituencies within India asking whether the toys that are sought to be bought are, in fact, the right and appropriate toys for the task.

So, the task before me this afternoon is to just share with you some reflections on how, in the scheme of things, one is to assess India’s defense capacity given that it is slowly rising as an emerging power. And I would argue that there are two ways to do it: One is to do it with a lot of arm waving and essentially convey to you my prejudices; the other is to kind of structure it in the form of questions that I think anyone needs to ask, and the book does the latter. And so I want to walk you through the questions that I think are pertinent to answering the question.

There are four tests that I think Indian defense policy has to meet if it is to be judged as appropriate to India’s strategic environment. The first is, does India have an appropriate grand strategy for dealing with the world? Does it have the capacity to develop this grand strategy? This would be question number one.

Question number two would be, does the Indian state have the capacity to mobilize the resources required to procure the range of military instruments necessary to achieve its political aims? This is the resource mobilization question.

Question number three is a particularly difficult one and it deals with institutional capacity and it comes in three forms. Does the Indian state have the institutional capacity to efficiently allocate the resources it mobilizes towards creating the right kind of military instruments? Does the Indian state have the institutional capacity to assess what is appropriate defense strategy, force requirements, and military technology? And does the Indian state have the institutional capacity to direct its military instruments in times of war and peace to secure certain political aims? These are very difficult and very complex questions, but critical. And the fourth question is, can the Indian state maintain armed forces that are capable of deploying the right kind of military capabilities and capable of implementing the right kind of military strategies? So, if one is to do a net assessment of whether Indian military modernization is appropriate to the objectives that the nation seeks to achieve on the international stage, I think one systematically has to go through the hard work of, in a sense, answering these questions. I won’t try to answer these questions in any detail here because I’ll keep you for much longer than you've signed up for, but I want to give you what I think are my summary conclusions and tie these to some of the themes that occur in the book.

On the first question of whether India has the capacity to develop a grand strategy and whether it has done so, I think the correct answer, from my point of view, is that India has done tolerably well on this question. It does not have deeply articulated grand strategies, but it’s got principles that guide its foreign policy. And its objectives and in the main, broadly speaking, the entire Indian establishment shares a rough coherence with the objectives that India seeks to achieve, so it’s done tolerably well on this score.

On the second question of does the Indian state have the capacity to mobilize resources to achieve the military aims it seeks, the Indian state has actually done reasonably well, particularly relative to its peers. And if you look at both Pakistan and China as just being two exemplars, you find, by some simple metrics like India’s ratios of tax to GDP, India actually does better than both China and Pakistan. And, in fact, it’s perversely demonstrated by the fact that today the Indian armed forces have a glut of resources that they often find themselves unable to spend. So, in a way, that is quite radically different from the ’70s. The Indian state today has money. Whether it has the capacity to spend it efficiently is, of course, a question that I will come to next.

The third question, which is the hard question because it deals with the squishy issues of state capacity, the question of whether the institutional capacity exists to do each of the three things that I flagged, first, does it have the capacity to efficiently allocate and mobilize resources? My view is that the Indian state does quite poorly on this score. Does the Indian state have the capacity to assess defense strategy, force requirements, and military technology? I think the Indian state does quite poorly on this score. And on the third issue of whether the Indian state has the capacity to direct its military instruments appropriately in war and peace, I think what can be said is that the Indian state does tolerably, but not particularly well.

I would have to take a lot of time to amplify these conclusions, but if there is a single theme that comes through in the book that explains why India’s performance in these areas has been less than optimal, I think one can flag the issue of civil military relations. And Steve’s book does a remarkable job of showing how the Indian state and its peculiar pattern of civil-military relations has prevented the state from achieving the kind of strategic outputs that it should, by nature, enjoy because of the resources it brings into play.

Now, there’s an important asterisk when one advances this
conclusion and the asterisk is this: It is not that the Indian state is unaware of the constraints imposed by its peculiar pattern of civil-military relations. In fact, the Indian state is very well aware of the constraints. But it is a deliberate choice on the part of state managers to accept some degree of liability where it comes to military effectiveness in order to preserve inviolate the principle of strong civilian control. And so the point to keep in mind is that this is not entirely accidental, it’s deliberate.

Which, of course, now raises a second question, which is, whatever the exigencies that drove these choices at the time of India’s founding, are these exigencies still in place that justify a continuation of these patterns of civil-military relations? And to my mind, this is where the future of India’s external environment is going to play a great role, that to the degree that Indian feels pressed because its external environment turns out to be far more hostile than it was in the founding years of the country’s post-independence era, then to that degree one would hope that the current pattern of civil-military relations will also change.

Let me say a few words about the last area which is, is the Indian state capable of maintaining armed forces with the appropriate military capabilities and capable of implementing effective military strategies? My judgment here is that the Indian military actually does very well and actually quite better than many of its peers. The book spends quite a bit of time focusing on this dimension of Indian military effectiveness, and I think sometimes Sunil and Steve may have been a tad too harsh with respect to the judgments they have drawn. My own view is that the Indian military, divorced of grand strategy, divorced of issues of political control, when addressed and assessed purely as a war fighting machine, is actually far more effective than people give them credit for. And one of the things that we have learned in the United States in the last eight years because of our increased interaction with the Indian military is that although India is a third world state by all the nominal indicators of what it takes to be third world, its armed forces are not your generic, run of the mill, third world armed forces. They are far more sophisticated than that. They are certainly not at the level of where the armed forces of the great powers are, but they’re not exactly also-rans either.

Where does all this leave us? It leaves me, personally, with a certain qualified optimism. And the reasons for my qualified optimism is that, first, the book does India and students of India a yeoman service because it casts, sometimes, a harsh spotlight on things that need to be fixed. And Indians being voracious readers and even deeper parsers of everything that’s published in the West, I’m sure will look at this book very closely and it will become one more element in the mix of the debate.

Second, I think we have to be careful about being too harsh because India is just taking baby steps on the road to great power status. India’s rise in material capabilities is, honestly speaking, barely a decade old and so it will take some time before its ideational and institutional capacities keep pace with its material transformations. The material transformations will come first. And if the environment plays the role that I expect it will, it will force a transformation in the ideational and the institutional capabilities.

Lastly, if India fails to get its act together, it will be confronted by crises and it will be confronted by geopolitical failure and ironically in the context of Indian history, crises, in the case of India, have had catalyzing effects, that is, they’ve been far more effective harbingers of change than normalcy. And so a little crisis along the way may not be an altogether bad thing.

[/quote]
Last edited by RajeshA on 16 Sep 2010 14:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Sanku »

Jai ho -- Ashely Tellis..... and no sarcasm is intended.

The above was so beautiful in its preciseness, structure and honesty.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ramana »

RajeshA. I am going to bold the relevant parts in Tellis review.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by RajeshA »

ramana wrote:RajeshA. I am going to bold the relevant parts in Tellis review.
Please do!
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ramana »

My comments in GDF.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ramana »

very good psot by Bji
Brishaspati wrote: When we talk of the spectacular success of India in various spheres of economics and knowledge-production since the independence, in spite of dire speculations of "inhomogeniety", "no-dominant-religions" etc, we somehow accept in an indirect way two myths created by the "west". The first is that "homogeneity" and "single dominant religion" is a precondition for economic growth. The second is that India's current economic growth is unique in Indian history.

The situation is even more complicated than that - because India had grown economically even in the past when there were dominant faith systems over large parts of India in pre-Islamic times, and India's growth stagnated when there were other forms of dominant religions like under the Khalji Sultanate or the latter Mughals. The "western" phenomenal growth took place in an era of intense religious schism and warfare.

However the more insidious result of this imagery is that somehow the lack of "single religious dominance", or "inhomogeneity" as supposedly manifest in Republican India - becomes by insinuation, a necessary precondition for Indian "growth". This then becomes a justification for all the deliberate steps taken to maintain an ideological vacuum, selective protection or virtual patronage of specific religions while suppressing or actively controlling others in the name of promotion of diversity, and protecting multiplicity of identity claims under state-sponsored incentives using state's power to spend the social surplus.

No one explores whether, all this growth was a result of desperate initiatives taken outside of the state's control, and which the state only took advantage of when it realized that its own protectees or mentees would be unable to maintain the productivity that in turn maintains the state's power. And whether Indian growth or productivity is not related to inhomogeneity or lack of single dominant religions.

Failure to realize patterns in long term growth and its connections or not to the political and ideological environment - can force India back into what I call the "beehive role". For a very long time Indians have been forced to become "bees" for animals who don't know how to make honey themselves or are too lazy to do so but cannot overcome their taste for it.

So periodically Indians are allowed to develop their productivity and then when the hive is full of honey the animals come up to break the hive and extract the honey. The last 2500 years of Indian history is a history of these animals - sometimes from CAR, sometimes from the middle East, and sometimes from Europe. Of course bees fight back to an extent. Some of these animals are so stupid that they not only break the hive and eat the honey, they also light a fire to burn the bees, use up all the wax for candles, and dance in joy when no bee is left to start a new hive. {Ghazni type invaders} Some are however more clever and leave when all the honey is extracted and part of the wax is taken away - but leave at least part of the bee population intact to revive the hive or start a new one. {Mughals, British and West}

Then wait until the hive is full of honey again. {US. Not having done anything for India, yet wants to extract honey after reforms catapulted Indian economy! And threatens to light a fire to drive away the bees thru its proxies.}

A beehive remains vulnerable because it cannot kill off the animals at each and every attack. It does not pursue the animals back to their lair and kill them. In simple terms make it prohibitively expensive for any animal to come and destroy the hive or extract the honey. Simple buzzing is not effective unless there is a continual reminder to the animal that the buzz is a precursor to a fatal retaliation - which means such fatalities have to be ensured from time to time to keep it in recent memory. Some of the bees may advocate the strategy of forever creating honey and give part of it as bribes to the more intelligent looting animals as a compromise solution that does not require all the trouble of retaliation. {MMS?}

Problem is once you are vulnerable, you can never be sure that the next animal coming is intelligent enough.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ramana »

X-post by GD
Singha wrote:my prediction - the goras are past experts at moving the goalpost just on the verge of someone scoring a goal.
1."india cannot be a great power without settling cashere"
2. "india may have sent a orbiter to moon but 750 mil yindu live on less than $1 a day"
3. 300,000 ROP genocided in gujarat, how can india be considered a secular democracy
4. india may have a bulging middle class but they do not enjoy the urban services of um berlin or osaka due to korrupt govt
5. indians do not contribute billions to alumni institutions => indians are cruel and uncaring
6. yindu has only small bums, china has bigger and more bums

now to add for 2015
7. india has a 1000km GLCM but yindu bum is weak
8. indian lacks own GPS sats
9. indians are *still* short, dark, rice eating and pray in dark, moist temples :D
10. indian A5 cannot put 10 mirv on target (onlee 5). hence A5 < DF31B & india < cheena < usa
11. india doesnt have 'instant strike' hypersonic stealth weapons to raze terrorist goat sheds within 30mins of POTUS pressing the green button
12. india doesnt GUBO, GUBO is doctor recommended for intestinal health
13. Arihant can only do 23 knots submerged while virginia can do 35, hence arihant is a white elephant and yindu cruelty to deprive the poor of their schools/hospitals/meals.

the way to upset this game is
[a] develop our own forums, blogs, media management - the internet is facilitating that
release a loud fart in the direction of these psyops operators.
[c] keep doing the good work.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ramana »

Pioneer, 22 Oct 2010...

Punish Teesta for perjury: Ex-aideOctober 22, 2010 2:13:25 AM

Rathin Das | Ahmedabad

A former associate of Mumbai-based social activist Teesta Setalvad has demanded that action should be taken against her for misleading various courts and forcing victims and witnesses of 2002 riots to file false affidavits.

Rais Khan Pathan, former field coordinator of Citizens for Justice and Peace (CJP) headed by Teesta, has said that false and fabricated affidavits prepared by Teesta with ulterior motive can lead to prosecution of innocent persons in the ongoing trials.

Pathan, who was removed from the CJP in January 2008, has made these charges in an affidavit filed before the Nanavati Commission probing the 2002 train inferno at Godhra and the subsequent riots in the State.


In the notarised affidavit, submitted to the Commission chaired by Justice GT Nanavati on Wednesday evening, Rais Khan has also alleged that payment to victims of the 2002 post-Godhra riots was not Teesta’s priority but she had preferred the witnesses.

Rais Khan said in the affidavit that Teesta used to pay a witness `50,000 to `1,00,000 while the victim of the riots was paid only `5,000. As the person in charge of CJP operations in Ahmedabad since 2002, Rais Khan used to receive funds from Teesta and disburse them to the victims and witnesses, he stated in the affidavit demanding action against Teesta Setalvad.

Rais Khan also stated in the affidavit how Teesta had become a power centre due to her strong links with the Congress leadership and started interfering in local politics. “During local elections in 2005, she used to give instructions to me to submit a detailed report regarding position of Congress party”, he disclosed in the affidavit.

Earlier in September, Rais Khan had registered a complaint with Commissioner of Police against Teesta for having his e-mail accounts hacked and passwords changed. Rais Khan has also written to the Supreme Court-appointed Special Investigation Team (SIT) to clarify his position following allegations made against him for manipulation of affidavits of witnesses.

Clarifying that his role was limited to receiving the affidavits from Teesta through e-mail, getting them signed by witnesses and victims and getting them notarised before submission to the courts or the commission, Rais Khan said that he was not authorised to make any changes in the fully prepared affidavits.

When most victims failed to give definite names of the accused persons, they were asked to provide names based on enmity with persons in their locality with a view to ‘fix’ them, Rais Khan said in the affidavit about the modus operandi followed by Teesta to prepare affidavits on behalf of witnesses.

“On instructions of Teesta, I used to prepare list of influential people of each locality, inquire about their background and affiliation with the political party and criminal cases pending against them, if any, and used to forward it to Teesta”, said Rais Khan in his affidavit.

Khan has also revealed that, on instructions of Teesta, he had kept the infamous Best Bakery case witnesses in the Mariam Apartment in Bhendi Bazar, Mumbai. “These witnesses were neither allowed to go outside nor to meet anybody. These witnesses were tutored by Teesta in her office”, Rais Khan elaborated in his affidavit submitted to the Nanavati Commission.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ramana »

Pioneer, 22 OCt, 2010

New lows for Arundhati Roy!
Arundhati promotes secession

October 22, 2010 2:19:10 AM

Deepak K Jha | New Delhi

Says ‘Kashmir should get Azadi from bhookhe-nange Hindustan’

Kashmir should get Azadi from bhookhe-nange Hindustan,” said Arundhati Roy at a seminar where the Maoists hosted Kashmir secessionist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani, which witnessed large scale protests by Kashmiri Pandits. A large number of protesters were detained at the behest of Parliament House attack accused SAR Gilani, who moderated the seminar promoting secession in the heart of the national Capital on Thursday.

The seminar was disrupted many a time when author-activist Arundhati Roy, a known Maoist sympathiser, openly preached secession while expressing her views and urging the audience comprising Kashmiri youth, students from AMU and also from DU to stand up and fight for the cause of a separate Kashmir and to get a fair play in the name of “Idea of Justice”.

“India needs Azadi from Kashmir and Kashmir from India. It is a good debate that has started. We must deepen this conversation and am happy that young people are getting involved for this cause which is their future. Indian Government is a hollow super power and I disassociate with it,” Roy said amid great applause from separatists. “Earlier we used to talk about our head held high and now we lay prostrate to the US,” she added. Referring to one of her earlier writings, Roy mentioned that Kashmiris have to decide whether they want to be with or get separated from “bhookhe-nange Hindustan where more than 830 million people live on Rs 20 per day only”.

Espousing the separatist cause, Roy also said that in the early 90s India opened two gates - one for the Babri Masjid issue and the other for the economy. “We ushered in two kinds of totalitarianism. One the Hindu totalitarians and the other economic totalitarian,” she said.

The convention on ‘Azadi — The Only Way’ organised by Committee for the Release of Political Prisoners (CRPP), was being attended by a number of sympathisers of Kashmiri separatists and Naxalites. The moment Geelani arrived to speak, the protesters numbering around 70 shouted slogans asking him to leave along with those demanding separate Kashmir. Amid pandemonium inside the LTG Auditorium, the protesters shouted slogans like ‘Bharat Mata Ki Jai’ and ‘Vande Mataram’ several times when various speakers expressed their views and opinions driving towards a separate Kashmir.

At least 50 of the protesters, including those from Roots to Kashmir and Panun Kashmir were detained by the police and released late in the evening. At the time of the protest, SAR Geelani, a lecturer in Delhi University who was accused in the Parliament attack case but later set free, was speaking on the topic. Besides Geelani, other participants in the seminar included writer and activist Arundhati Roy, senior journalist Najeeb Mubaraki, Telangana activist Varvara Rao, president of the CRPP Gursharan Singh (represented by his daughter due to Singh’s ill health), media critic Shuddabrata Sengupta, and separatists from Manipur and Nagaland in the six-hour-long programme.

“This is atrocious. It is happening right in the Capital of the country when a few people are talking to break the secular ethos of the country. We stand for united India. I do not know why the country’s administration is pampering them in the name of Islam. Kashmir belongs to all, including the Kashmiri Pandits and we will do all to safeguard that interest,” said Aditya Raj Kaul, one of the protesters who led a group of young students and professionals condemning the seminar called and moderated by Gilani and a group of Naxal sympathisers.

Emotions erupted and tempers ran high amid a group of Kashmiri Pandits there to listen to the opinion when Roy said that: “I am also aware of the stories about Kashmiri Pandits. I must tell you that Panun Kashmir is a false group”. Taken aback by this statement, 65-year-old Nancy Kaul stood up and questioned the sanctity of Roy’s statement. Kaul was joined by a few others echoing the sentiments of Kashmiri Pandits and other displaced persons from Jammu and Kashmir. Nancy was also attacked by a young person, probably from the north-east who also misbehaved with her and threw the paper material Kaul was carrying with her. “Jis thali mein kha rahey hain usi thali eein ched kar rahey hain yain yes log,” Kaul and others shouted pointing towards Roy and other speakers. The police had to be called again to pacify the small group of protesters and a large group of members advocating Azadi.

While urging Kashmiris to boycott interlocutors, Syed Ali Shah Geelani rejected the eight-point agenda rolled out by the Centre for defusing crisis in the Valley. Though saying that the people of Kashmir are not against any dialogue, the Hurriyat leader said the talks should be on the core issue and Pakistan should also be involved in the discussions. “The dialogue should not be bilateral. India, Pakistan and representatives of people of Jammu and Kashmir should sit together with the reference of sacrifices made by Kashmiris during the last 63 years. Indian Government has to accept our five-point agenda, then only we will initiate talks with interlocutors, otherwise I ask Kashmiris to boycott them,” said the separatist leader.

The hardline leader added that since 1947, 150 such dialogues have been held but without any result, we will not participate in any discussions until our five-point agenda is accepted by India. “Our five points are -- first Indian security forces should be withdrawn from J&K under UN supervision. Political prisoners be released, cases should be registered against the killers of 111 innocent people, who had been killed during the last four months. Remember, we are not against Indian or India, we want the rights to self-determination,” said Geelani.

SAR Geelani, who moderated the session, said the demand of Kashmir Azadi not only meant the Kashmir Valley but the entire Jammu and Kashmir, Ladakh, Muzzafarabad, Baltistan and Mirpur.

{uncle agenda!}

Dal Khalsa leader Kanwar Pal Singh used the occasion to criticise the Government, including Prime Minister Manmohan whom he labeled is anti-Sikh. He also took the opportunity to criticise the Indian judiciary and the audience yelled “Shame Shame India, Shame Shame Courts Here”. “The Supreme Court and High Courts are for the bahu-betis only. What a ridiculous judgement was given by the Supreme Court regarding the Parliament attack case and observations made on Afzal Guru. The recent Ayodhya case is a stupid judgement in which facts were not taken into account but only faith ka khaas khayal rakha gaya.”

The Naga and Manipuri leaders said that like Manipur and Nagaland, Kashmir was also never part of India. “To be a part during freedom struggle does not mean that we express solidarity to be united with India. We also need freedom as we were free before 1947. What is the problem to India when we say we want freedom,” said a speaker from Naga People’s Movement for Human Rights and Justice.
Vande mataram.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Jarita »

^^^ All the noises at the right time. All those who are enemies of each other are converging to fracture Bharat and rid this major irritant from face of the earth. We are like itch to them that has to go away even if all have to come together for that temporarily.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Pratyush »

A hard hitting pice by Tarun Vijay;

Mafiosi, their lies and a fake state

Some times it is very surprising that the TOI allows articles such as this to be published on its website. A relevant excerpt from the article.
Except during the emergency, I have never seen such a terrified media and a fearful section of the opposition that feels scared to call the bluff of the ruling elite putting Indian security and morale of the forces at its lowest ebb. It was left for the fighting spirit of an opposition leader, Arun Jaitley, to come out with a statement that reflected the anguish of the Indian patriotic people. Where have all other leaders gone? Is the tricolor and its honour the responsibility of just one party? Can the rest can speak in favour of secessionists or maintain silence, looking for the right kind of vote-gathering opportunity? The professor who should have been sent to the gallows for conspiring against the Indian state is seen leading the attack on the nation’s integrity again, rather than feeling grateful to the democratic ironies of our society where the social secular sirens helped him to get a new lease of life.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

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Rahul as PM
On his present record, the Gandhi scion gives the jitters were he ever to get the running of India, says N.V.Subramanian.


London, 27 October 2010: If you wish to have a glimpse of the kind of government Rahul Gandhi will give to the country, if he ever unfortunately becomes India's prime minister, then you have to check the direction the Congress party is taking under him. The Congress party technically is still headed by his mother, Sonia Gandhi. But in key decisions taken, for example, on continuing with Omar Abdullah as Jammu and Kashmir's chief minister, with all its disastrous fallouts so far, or on canceling the bauxite mining leases of Vedanta in Niyamgiri Hills, or in decisions related to selecting Congress candidates for elections (where, of course, success is all that counts), it appears that Sonia has allowed Rahul to have the final call. It would, therefore, be logical and proper to place current decisions and steps taken by the Congress party at the door of Rahul Gandhi, and it would not be entirely out of sorts to extrapolate from there about the kind of primeministership he will give. This piece will not deal with the actual primeministership he is likely to dispense, because that will be at a future point in time, and it may happen as likely as that it may not, but rather the manner of a Rahul Gandhi primeministership, for which his present decisions, some of them at any rate, taken as the most powerful of the Congress general secretaries, will be analyzed for what they are worth.

The earlier view shared by this writer was that the Congress party was playing the "good cop" to the "bad cop" of government to usurp the opposition space of the BJP and to some extent the Left represented in the main by the CPI-M. This "good cop/ bad cop" theory cannot be entirely banished because it has come to occupy respectable space in India's party-political sciences, and was practiced unsuccessfully, of course, by the BJP-Sangha Parivar previously. But it appears more the case that the brand of politics or politicking Rahul Gandhi is pushing is becoming, if not in its conception, then certainly in its execution, anti-government, anti-state, with its obvious negative implications for Indian nationhood, and this syndrome appears to have infected the likes of the Union home minister, P.Chidambaram. (Chidambaram, as has been written in this magazine earlier, feels hugely threatened by the rise of Digvijay Singh, the political tutor of Rahul Gandhi, and who is ambitious for the home job.)

Take the case of J and K, for example. Nearly all the present troubles of the state can be traced to two young, super-ambitious politicians, Mehbooba Mufti and Omar Abdullah. Mehbooba Mufti and the PDP made it impossible for the Congress when the J and K chiefministership came to it by rotation, aligning ideologically with the separatist forces and taking a sectarian line on the Amarnath Yatra temporary land-lease issue. For all that, the PDP did badly in the polls and Farooq Abdullah and Omar's National Conference in alliance with the Congress conversely did well. Rather than learn his lessons from the PDP's debacle, which was not to act the spoiler, concentrate on governance, and make it worthwhile for Kashmiris to remain wedded to democracy, Omar retreated to behind the high walls of office, broke his links with the people, and afforded a second life to the Syed Ali Shah Geelani sort of redundant separatists who want J and K's merger with Pakistan, even though it is a failed state with a terrible record of persecuting non-Punjabis and minorities.

To cover for his own inadequacies, Omar has gone into campaign mode, whilst being chief minister, targeting critical instruments of the Indian state like the Indian Army, which he now wants prosecuted for mostly false cases of extra-judicial killings, while seeking operationally to tie its hands through killer amendments in the Armed Forces' Special Powers Act. Rather than see through Omar's game, which is ultimately self-defeating, and capable potentially of destroying the Abdullah legacy in J and K, Rahul Gandhi has backed his continuance as chief minister, on the grounds that he is young and needs time. Being young is no justification to make blunders, but it almost appears that Rahul Gandhi does not care, even when it is clearly apparent that Omar Abdullah is straining J and K's ties with the remaining Indian mainstream. By setting up a panel of non-political resolvers for J and K, forgetting that the best solution for the state is to leave things alone, Chidambaram seems to have bought into the substance of Rahul Gandhi's apparent anti-government, anti-state politics, if it can be called that. And the new panel's leader, a former editor, rather than adhering to his brief objectively to transmit the expressed views of Kashmiris to the Centre, has weighed in on J and K's Pakistan angle, provoking another controversy.

{Again a govt functionary acting anti-government!}

In matter after matter, the Rahul Gandhi Congress is chasing headlines, following media chatter, and submerging in the NGO chorus.The decision to cancel the Vedanta mining lease is getting increasingly mired in allegations of exceeded briefs, with its huge impact on India's growth prospects and strategies. The anti-government, anti state reflexes of Rahul Gandhi have infected key segments of the Central government. In a different sort of way from Chidambaram, Jairam Ramesh is attempting to remain in the good books of Rahul Gandhi, putting a block on infrastructural development even in the strategically sensitive North East. The thrust seems more and more to conform to the Rahul Gandhi thinking, whatever that is, and wise Pranab Mukherjee's observation that he has "overstayed" at the wicket and is too old for a future Rahul Gandhi cabinet tells which way the wind is blowing.

If indeed, unfairly to Pranab, his decision to seek early retirement is interpreted philosophically at a deeper level, it would suggest that wisdom is in precipitately declining demand. After all, why would Rahul Gandhi & Co want to encourage an anti-government, anti-statestream of action and thought while giving at the same time the essential motor drive to the Manmohan Singh government? It defies explanation (it bears similarity to Kalidasa sawing or chopping the branch of the tree he was straddling), even accounting for the good-bad cop theory. With things being in a bad way and chaotic as they are now, imagine the state of affairs when Rahul Gandhi reaches the top. You would all come to rue it.

N.V.Subramanian is Editor, http://www.NewsInsight.net, and writes internationally on strategic affairs. He has authored two novels, University of Love (Writers Workshop, Calcutta) and Courtesan of Storms (Har-Anand, Delhi). Email: envysub@gmail.com.
The real problem is the Nehru-Gandhi family views the INC as its fiefdom and the PM job as raj gaddi or throne. By converting itself into a dynasty it has made itself open to coterie politics like the Corps of Forty in the Mughal Sultanate days. It cannot get elected and hence it is acting anti-state and anti-govt so as to become the gathering of all those who abhor the idea of India.


Reminds me of the Dhananand's politics in the serial Chanakya.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by abhishek_sharma »

There are two Congresses

Shekhar Gupta

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/There ... ses/729224
That what should have normally been the silly season turned out to be such a politically charged fortnight was probably to be expected, with a much delayed AICC plenary and the BJP’s big rally in the capital. But the surprise of surprises is evidence of the first stirrings of some real introspection in the Congress. Not much of it is openly articulated, or even whispered. That would be too much to expect from a party whose basic instinct is sycophancy. Yet you now sense an unprecedented, deeper, healthier rethink. This change is probably led by none else than the Family.Sonia Gandhi’s belated and fond remembrance of Narasimha Rao is a more significant event than it would seem.

...

So he was responsible for both calamities: decline of the Congress, and the rise of the Hindu right. He was so reviled that the truck bearing his body was not allowed even symbolic entry into AICC headquarters.You could, indeed, dismiss this hint of Rao’s rehabilitation as a response to the challenge in Andhra. But I will be more optimistic in guessing that this is a signal for some subtle, and significant, course correction by Sonia Gandhi herself. One would have to be brave to argue that maybe now the Family itself is willing to give the sycophancy-driven party a signal that the times when simply the call from a Gandhi, or two Gandhis as is the case now, will win them elections are now over. That, the party may now need to remember the contribution of some significant others as well?

...

The larger argument, however, is not about the political resurrection of a long-demised individual. It is about what and whose achievements the Congress party of today, and more significantly, in 2014 goes to the voter with. If it has seen the need to remember Rao after 15 years, for how long could it afford to overlook the real legacy of UPA’s 10 years? This is an important question because in this new, and uncharacteristic, churning in the Congress today you see a fascinating interplay of two views. The dominant one, of course, is that the party needs no more than the name of the Gandhis, and a return to the pre-Rao ideological positioning: hard socialism, hard secularism and even a kind of anti-Americanism. This, it is argued, would bring back the old votebanks, the Muslims, adivasis, the Dalits and the poor in general. The challenger view, held by a very small, brave minority, is that slogans that got you votes until 1980 can no longer work, nor can the mere name of the Family, in 2014, particularly when more than half the population in 2014 would have been born after the assassination of Indira Gandhi.

...

The Congress party’s instinctive old view was fully articulated by Digvijaya Singh at the AICC meet and if you read it with what he has been saying on Naxalism and tribals, the pattern becomes clear. His idea, and his is by no means an insignificant support base in the party, is to return to hard secularism (even more than socialism) and thereby first scaring the Muslims of the RSS and then impressing them by taking it on frontally. The only problem is, the Muslims need no further persuasion to fear the RSS. Even as they have abandoned the Congress as a permanent votebank, they have voted tactically to defeat the BJP. Except, they are no longer willing to be taken for granted. In each state they look for the party, or the candidate, most likely to defeat the BJP and vote with that one purpose. So if the Congress does not have the ability (the Urdu word, auqat, might be more apt) to defeat the BJP in, say, UP, they would not waste their vote out of some old affection but vote for the SP or BSP instead. Where the Congress is a credible opposition to the BJP, as in Maharashtra, Andhra, Karnataka or even Gujarat, they vote for it. So this entire new strategic turn to hard RSS-bashing is so much hot air. The same would apply to the 2010 Congress party’s Old Guard’s nostalgia for hard socialism. You talk sadly of the poor all the time, of two Indias, of the hapless aam admi who suffers for lack of connections, and the voter turns around and asks, so what have your party’s governments been doing for 50 years out of 63 since 1947? Some in the party now acknowledge the laziness of this approach. Because if it impressed anybody even a bit, the party would not have lost its deposit in 221 of the 243 seats in Bihar.

I had said last week that some of the lingering distortions in the Congress worldview are rooted in a faulty analysis on the 2004 verdict as being some kind of a permanent condemnation of the idea of a shining India. These distortions have also been compounded by a faulty reading of the 2009 verdict. You ask a Congressman and he will tell you they won because of NREGA and farm loan waivers. Almost nobody would credit their re-election on five full years of 8 per cent growth. It is the NAC-driven largesse, they say, that made the poor return to the Congress. What does the data say? In Bihar, Orissa, Jharkhand and Chhattisgarh, where the largest percentage of the population is under the poverty line, the Congress got just 10 seats out of 86. Even if you add the other Bimaru states, MP and UP (but not Rajasthan which has moved on), the party’s tally was just 48 out of 208. So the poor and the tribals really did not return to the UPA in spite of NREGA, loan waiver and the Forest Rights Act. In fact, in 47 ST seats countrywide, it won 19. The ones who voted for it, on the other hand, were the cities and upwardly mobile, urbanising, aspirational states. The Congress or its allies swept every major city (except Bangalore and Ahmedabad), and urbanising states. Out of the 204 seats in Haryana, Punjab, Delhi, Maharashtra, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra and even Gujarat, it collected 134 seats, exactly two-thirds.You could argue, therefore, that what got the UPA re-elected was growth rather than the scattering of povertarian largesse at the poor. Looking ahead to 2014, you could either believe that another five years of 9 per cent growth would bring you even better results than 2004, and mould your slogans and political agenda accordingly, or make a hard reverse to 1980 in the hope that the oldest formulae would still work best. Evidence of data tells you clearly which is the smarter course. And since 1991 did not merely mark the beginning of India’s modern growth story, but also the final burial of old-style socialism, you can be forgiven for hoping that Sonia’s restoration of Narasimha Rao in the Congress pantheon might mark the first stirrings of a welcome rethink.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by abhishek_sharma »

UP at work after Nitish victory

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/up-at ... y/729646/0
After the Bihar elections, Mayawati had attributed Nitish Kumar’s victory to the “nepotism” of Lalu Yadav and Ram Vilas Paswan rather than to good governance. Yet, apparent efforts to emulate that state have picked up with the Uttar Pradesh government making constant departmental reviews and asking officials to speed up development; take people to task for deadlines missed; discuss hurdles in project implementation; review progress separately on every major scheme. From top bureaucrats to lower ranked officers, targets and deadlines have been set. Officers are being told their work is being monitored, especially in case of roads and infrastructural projects. Sources in the government say ministers, too, have been told they should be visible in the field during programmes involving their departments and should dispose of complaints as early as possible. Mayawati has denied these moves having anything to do with Nitish’s victory.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Pratyush »

Cong blames Sanjay Gandhi for Emergency ‘excesses’


With leadership displayed by the Kangress of today. Absolutely not taking any responsibility for the mess it created in the name following the leader. One looses all hope that it can be made to see the light.

The Idiots seem to be missing the point that Sanjay Gandhi did what he did because he was allowed by the emergency to do so. The fact that his mother was the PM places the responsibility for the actions directly at the doorstep of the mother.

But expecting the current worthies in Kangress to understant this is an excercise in futility.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by brihaspati »

No it is much more mundane in intent - it is about tagging the son with the father's misdeeds. Any competition between cousin birathers is not to be tolerated.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by abhischekcc »

Pratyush, all,

TOI editorial staff is highly Hindu nationalist. It is the owners who support secularism, Aman ka Tamasha, etc. for money. The editorial staff have been forced to go along with the owners for a long time.

The current TOI articles which are pro-Hinduism and pro-India are almost like a rebellion of the editorial staff against the owners.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Pratyush »

Sanjay excesses historical fact: Congress

The intellesctual gymnastics being indulged by the Kangress of today is disgusting to read. Are the morons of Kangress going to assess why the emergency was launched in the first place. Are they goint to examine the role of the Iron lady and say that it was Her and her alone who was responsible for the imposition of emergency.
NEW DELHI: Under attack from its opponents for the assessment of the Emergency era in the just published work on the party's history, the Congress on Wednesday defended the critical view taken of Sanjay Gandhi's role during those dark days, insisting that history should not be about goody-goody things.

Rejecting the criticism that Indira Gandhi's younger son had virtually been demonized for Emergency excesses, the party said the two volumes had made no attempt at hiding unpleasant facts.

Whatever has been said about Sanjay Gandhi is history; no attempt has been made to demean him, Congress spokesman Shakil Ahmed told a media briefing. Justifying the treatment of Sanjay, a strong power-centre within the Congress in 1975-76, in "The Congress and the Making of the Indian Nation", he said, "what the volumes contained was common knowledge. Indira Gandhi herself regretted the Emergency excesses later."

Ahmed sought to clarify that there had been no attempt to equate Sonia Gandhi with Mahatma Gandhi, saying such an impression would be erroneous.

"It is natural for any Indian to compare the Mahatma's supreme sacrifice with Sonia Gandhi's rejection of the Prime Ministers office, but it would be appropriate to say that she has been inspired by Gandhiji," he said. (What utter non sense)

The reason for a candid recall of the atrocities during the Emergency by the party in its official history has intrigued many. The party seems to have felt a need to set the record straight as far as its past is concerned by admitting to its faults and flaws.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Chandragupta »

Mullahs, are there any clear paths at all for the youth of this country to enter politics? What are the options if some young nationalists of MBA/Mtech kinds in their mid twenties wanted to join the political cesspool to try clean it up?
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by brihaspati »

Chandragupta wrote:Mullahs, are there any clear paths at all for the youth of this country to enter politics? What are the options if some young nationalists of MBA/Mtech kinds in their mid twenties wanted to join the political cesspool to try clean it up?
If the YNMBMT really wants to clean up, and then he/she can consider the following options:
(1) identify the objectives for the longer term - independent of any existing party or political structure
(2) decide on the balance and proportion of private life, commitments and the longer term national ones
(3) based on social and locational/societal background decide on the optimal party and political structure to join, construct or modify.

Any existing party structure :
(1) is likely to have been infiltrated up to the highest levels by secret services, agents of competing parties, as well as foreign interests
(2) most party functionaries are likely to have one or more items of "darkness" which have either been deliberately created by the party as well as other networks or purely accidental - which are seen as necessary by the controlling cliques and groups within each such network - to keep loyalty of the functionary as a blackmail item
(3) if you plan on using these existing structures you should be prepared to get "entrapped" by such attempts if you plan to rise through the hierarchy into influential positions
(4) the safest compromise you can make is not to prevent or obstruct "monetary flows" between others, but never, ever participate yourself. Try to keep clear of sexual, "physical elimination of party enemies" sort of entanglements. Instead keep a track of all such goings on to use as reverse blackmail as and when needed - but try not to use them.
(5) place yourself as the "necessary good cop" of the good cop-bad cop duo that all party tops feel that they have to maintain. The party also needs "Mr. clean"'s.

It is tricky, and the cliques may very well get to realize what you are really after.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by ramana »

Received in e-mail. Please dissect and analyze.
Here is the summary of the point that I said that I will send you an email.


1. 1980s - India progresses in nuke weapons program. Uncle wanted to cut it to no-nuke model.
2. 1990 - Cold war is won decisively by US and sees an opportunity for US to intervene deeply into India affairs.
3. 1991 to 1996 - Period of consolidation with spies and implantation of moles. MMS is the mole that they forced on PVNR to get the desperate help from IMF and WB
4. 1995 to 1998 - Internal politics - Mandal and Hindutva stuff caught uncle on the unexpected path. They thought there will never be something different from INC in India. Definition of MMS is the full article that is clarified in sites like magadhnagrik blog.
5. 1998 - 2004 - India goes nuclear and Uncle's plan of denuke using MMS had gotten drawbacks
6. 2004 onwards - Consolidation of uncle's new geo-political strategy. The salient points are
* Uncle's energy to control everything in the world all alone seems to have gone down. It realized broadly that it needs new circle of friends to help her to be in dominant role while not allowing its new friends to growing too much independently. India is definitely one marked for such a role. India will not be allowed to be independent but will have to be something like Pakistan but with little more respect.
* India's nuke deal is a classic example of allowing India to grow at a pace and timing of Uncle's needs and not India's wish.
* Uncle realized denuking India is a disaster of the future as China's ascent at a time when Uncle's population is graying will be an imminent threat
* Uncle realized that India is the best bet for countering China. It started multiples steps of programs. Fundamentally allow India to have nukes but only at a pace it needs to counter China. If India tried to break the logjam, Pakistan is always there.
* Process of controlling India: Uncle knows that India has wherewithal to break through the logjam. Hence the moles that started entering INC are very helpful at this time. It's strategy is to keep INC in power forever using the moles. Use the Sonia system to get the power via elections. Use MMS types for governance and get its things done. Though China may be our number one enemy, we are playing this number one enemy game at the behest of China and not on our independent strategy. MMS is very quick in being aggressive against China in terms of rhetoric and also body language. However, when it comes to Pakistan he goes through multiple SeS. Keeping a person in India that toes exactly what Uncle wants in India's foreign and nuclear policies is what US has achieved in the first decade of 21st century.
What other data to support this?

What other data to counter it?

If the premise is right how to break the paradigm? In what time period?
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Klaus »

brihaspati wrote:
It is tricky, and the cliques may very well get to realize what you are really after.
Not if you are ready to live a double life during your political career. We all know the tales of kings who used to roam the distant reaches of their kingdom in incognito or in disguise. We also know how spies have successfully managed a double life. A clean politician can stay out of the reach of cliques if he/she has reliable contacts amongst aam abduls who are at grassroots level of society.

Only a person with vibe and memes sensing intuition can pull it off for a significant amount of time. Also the probability of being exposed for what you are is quite low if the YNMBMT does not have a moral compass suited towards accommodation and compromise and leans more towards frank mercilessness.
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India - II

Post by Pranav »

ramana wrote:Received in e-mail. Please dissect and analyze.
Here is the summary of the point that I said that I will send you an email.


1. 1980s - India progresses in nuke weapons program. Uncle wanted to cut it to no-nuke model.
2. 1990 - Cold war is won decisively by US and sees an opportunity for US to intervene deeply into India affairs.
3. 1991 to 1996 - Period of consolidation with spies and implantation of moles. MMS is the mole that they forced on PVNR to get the desperate help from IMF and WB
4. 1995 to 1998 - Internal politics - Mandal and Hindutva stuff caught uncle on the unexpected path. They thought there will never be something different from INC in India. Definition of MMS is the full article that is clarified in sites like magadhnagrik blog.
5. 1998 - 2004 - India goes nuclear and Uncle's plan of denuke using MMS had gotten drawbacks
6. 2004 onwards - Consolidation of uncle's new geo-political strategy. The salient points are
* Uncle's energy to control everything in the world all alone seems to have gone down. It realized broadly that it needs new circle of friends to help her to be in dominant role while not allowing its new friends to growing too much independently. India is definitely one marked for such a role. India will not be allowed to be independent but will have to be something like Pakistan but with little more respect.
* India's nuke deal is a classic example of allowing India to grow at a pace and timing of Uncle's needs and not India's wish.
* Uncle realized denuking India is a disaster of the future as China's ascent at a time when Uncle's population is graying will be an imminent threat
* Uncle realized that India is the best bet for countering China. It started multiples steps of programs. Fundamentally allow India to have nukes but only at a pace it needs to counter China. If India tried to break the logjam, Pakistan is always there.
* Process of controlling India: Uncle knows that India has wherewithal to break through the logjam. Hence the moles that started entering INC are very helpful at this time. It's strategy is to keep INC in power forever using the moles. Use the Sonia system to get the power via elections. Use MMS types for governance and get its things done. Though China may be our number one enemy, we are playing this number one enemy game at the behest of China and not on our independent strategy. MMS is very quick in being aggressive against China in terms of rhetoric and also body language. However, when it comes to Pakistan he goes through multiple SeS. Keeping a person in India that toes exactly what Uncle wants in India's foreign and nuclear policies is what US has achieved in the first decade of 21st century.
What other data to support this?

What other data to counter it?

If the premise is right how to break the paradigm? In what time period?
The only peaceful way to break the paradigm is to restore democracy by getting rid of EVMs.
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