West Asia News and Discussions

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VikramS
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by VikramS »

Shankaraa wrote:Shyamji

Thanks for your response.

I still have some doubts about getting closer to SA.

(1)SA is the main exporter of Wahhabism including Indian subcontinent. Wahhabism will create serious problems for us in long term.

(2)Is SA trying to wean us away from Iran? We need oil from both countries.
And how do you plan to influence KSA to try and reduce Wahhabism in the sub-continent? By boycotting it?

Right now Iran is perhaps the lynch pin when it comes to the entire Middle East. If Iran backs down because of a whatever reasons (regime change, internal pressure, boycott etc.), the entire Middle East can be reshaped, including the role of the Proxytute.
Shankaraa wrote: (3)Why allow SA to inspect our missiles facilities? How can we be sure that they would not pass any sensitive information to Pakis?

(4)Why should SA be interested in any Indian military assistance when they can get the best equipment from USA? What could we sell them under defence pact?

(5)What effect this would have on our relationship with Israel and Iran?
Aren't #4 and #5 mutually contradictory wrt to Israel?
Iran-India is driven by mutual self-interest. Why should India bottle itself in one camp?

Regarding #3: you should have some faith in the Indian establishment also. Indian Missile program is reasonably transparent.
Shankaraa wrote: (6)Wouldn’t it be better to get Japanese money & technology (hopefully with no strings attached) for our infrastructure development rather than Wahhabi petro-dollars (which will create more mosques & madrassas in India?

Definitely true. However they, are in no way, mutually exclusive.

There is absolutely no reason for India to cede its role in the Middle East to other powers. Strong mutually beneficial relationship can only help India exert influence which can further her interests.

You should also look at India's Trade Balance numbers and how the current account gets balanced before being dismissive of the Gulf (KSA's) significance to India.
member_21708
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_21708 »

ramana wrote:In the meantime, we must accept that chaos will be the main trend in the region for quite some time, rather than constantly fret over false "liberal democracy vs. Islamist theocracy" dichotomies.
order out of chaos, that's what they planned for. now its time for them to impose their order.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Shankaraa wrote:Shyamji

Thanks for your response.
Thank you for your interest.
I still have some doubts about getting closer to SA.

(1)SA is the main exporter of Wahhabism including Indian subcontinent. Wahhabism will create serious problems for us in long term.
Yes it will. We are aware of it. We want their funds purely for govt/pvt sector to fund infrastructure but minus the wahabbi money. KSA asked us to accept an offer to renovate Jama Masjid in Delhi, this was refused directly.
(2)Is SA trying to wean us away from Iran? We need oil from both countries.
Yes they are. We will play neutral for our strategic and economic reasons.
(3)Why allow SA to inspect our missiles facilities? How can we be sure that they would not pass any sensitive information to Pakis?
Only thing sensitive is trajectories to build ABM (you won't know this until you get ahold of a mijjile). Nothing much sensitive to pass on. They will inspect our production facilities, nothing there that no one already knows. They will have our umbrella instead of the PRC/TSP.
(4)Why should SA be interested in any Indian military assistance when they can get the best equipment from USA? What could we sell them under defence pact?
Is US trust worthy and a reliable ally? Not really. Sell them INSAS (like with Oman), N umbrella, Indian ABM operated by Indian troops, naval equipment and much more. We want to replace TSP completely. TSP is anyhow an unreliable ally, they failed to back KSA during GW1 and worse they gave tehran the N capability! In exchange we get money for this - which will be put to expanding our defence production facilities, funds for research and building better weapons. Funds will also be used to finance our infra developmetn (the same as what they did with the US).

Ibn Khaldun - no justice without monarch/govt, no monarch/govt without the army, no army without taxes, no taxes without wealth generated by its citizens.

(5)What effect this would have on our relationship with Israel and Iran?
Nothing. GCC in fact want us to be the go-between between Iran and the GCC due to our regional respect and influence. Our relationship with Israel will grow stronger.
(6)Wouldn’t it be better to get Japanese money & technology (hopefully with no strings attached) for our infrastructure development rather than Wahhabi petro-dollars (which will create more mosques & madrassas in India?
No we get everyones - we need everyone. Jap haven't got the type of cash to deploy in the scale that GCC can and has done historically - as you can see with the US.

We know about the threat of wahabbi dollars, so we are channeling the money into govt schemes and other areas such as infrastructure development.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Growing Saudi-India ties
The agreements that emerged at the end of the two-day visit to the Kingdom this week by Indian Defense Minister A. K. Antony, signal the growing importance of both countries to each other.

India’s thriving economy needs Saudi oil to offset its diminishing liftings from Iran. Likewise, Indian business wants to boost its exports to the Kingdom, not least winning orders as part of the Saudi drive to build major new infrastructure and grow a flourishing nonoil based economic sector. Indian trade with the GCC now tops $130 billion and more than six million Indian citizens live and work in the region, two million of them in the Kingdom. For Saudi Arabia, closer cooperation with New Delhi, particularly in military terms, makes sense in a wider region still beset with instability.

Formalizing closer relations actually reflects a reality of increasing trade links that were given real impetus by the 2006 visit of Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah to India, with a large official party, including leading Saud businessmen and investors. They were further boosted with the return visit by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in 2010.

It would, however, be wrong for anyone to imagine that a growing Saudi relationship, even a military one, means that Saudi relations with Pakistan are going to be diminished. It does not have to work that way — and Saudi Arabia certainly does not see it that way. There is no reason therefore why anyone in Pakistan should worry about India’s emergence as a Saudi partner. The Saudi government is friends with both and pursues a very balanced and positive policy toward both. Indeed, Saudi Arabia has long supported increased dialogue between Islamabad and New Delhi and promoted a settlement of their historic differences. If anything, the Kingdom’s drawing closer to India may actually have a positive impact on the relationship between the rival neighbors.

The deal to supply the Indians with more crude from the Kingdom’s two million barrels a day spare capacity comes at a key moment. Saudi Arabia is already India’s largest supplier and because of payment clearing problems, Indian refiners have been cutting their purchases of Iranian crude. Delhi’s attitude to Tehran also hardened last week after Iranians were blamed for a bomb attack in the Indian capital, as well as another in Bangkok. Indeed closer cooperation on terrorism was an issue that was discussed during the Indian defense minister’s stay.

The fine print of the Saudi-Indian defense deal will be worked out in advance of a visit by Defense Minister Prince Salman to New Delhi later in the year. A joint committee is looking at a range of defense cooperation options. These will include defense production and increased training of personnel, which could involve Indian mountain troops training their Saudi counterparts in the Kingdom. However, it is already clear that ground-breaking joint exercises are in the offing. There are also likely to be high-level army, naval and air force exchanges, as well as goodwill visits by ships from both navies. Of especial importance is the scheme to work closely on combating piracy in the Indian Ocean where commercial vessels from both countries have fallen victim to attacks from pirates based in Somalia.

That the Indians are very serious about military cooperation was made clear by the top brass who traveled to the Kingdom with Defense Minister Antony and Defense Secretary Shashi K. Sharma. They included Vice Chief of Army Staff Lt. Gen. S.K. Singh, Deputy Chief of Naval Staff Vice Adm. Satish Soni and Air Vice Marshal M. R. Pawar.

One early sign of the increased cooperation is likely to be in hydrography. The Indian Navy would be working with their Saudi counterparts on nautical chart-making and the hydrographical surveys of key Saudi coastal areas, ports and harbors and sea areas. A substantial expansion of hydrographic training programs is also planned. Indeed, Indian officials have already been helping in the field.

Saudi Arabia’s continued new focus upon Asia, while by no means ignoring its historic relations with Europe and North America, is an inevitable reflection of the slow but steady shift of economic and geopolitical power to the East.

Even though the final details have yet to be worked out, it is clear from the mood music from both sides during this Indian visit, that this has been a highly successful trip which will be leading to a growth in relations, at both a military and commercial level.


GCC - Egypt problems
Will Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood mend ties with Gulf States?
Sultan al-Qassemi
Tue, 07/02/2012 - 13:13

As the Muslim Brotherhood ascends to power, a question remains on how the once “banned” group will handle the issue of ties with the Arab Gulf states.

Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are today the two states in the Gulf that are most skeptical of the Muslim Brotherhood. And yet these are precisely the two countries that Egypt's Brotherhood must try its best to build bridges with. Saudi Arabia and the UAE are, after all, the two largest economies in the Arab world, and the biggest investors in Egypt despite what other Gulf countries claim. Almost 500 UAE firms operate in Egypt with investments valued at US$10 billion, the same amount invested by Saudis. The latter have additionally promised to grant Egypt several billion dollars in aid. It is also worth noting that 1.5 million Egyptians work and live in Saudi Arabia, while 250,000 Egyptians are residents of the UAE.

The Muslim Brotherhood, however, does enjoy a semi-recognized status in two other Gulf states. For instance, although it suffered a recent elections setback in Bahrain’s previous parliament, the Menbar Society, a Bahraini offshoot of the Brotherhood, had previously held six seats out of a total of 40, in addition to the post of second deputy speaker. In Kuwait, Islamists won an overwhelming majority of seats in parliament this month with the Kuwaiti Muslim Brotherhood, known as the Islamic Constitutional Movement, winning all four seats it contested in the 50-seat body, doubling the number they had earlier held.

As of today, though, representatives of Saudi Arabia and the UAE have been alone among Gulf states in announcing their skepticism of Egypt's Brotherhood. A recent opinion column by Tariq al-Homayed, editor of the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper that is owned by Saudi Prince Salman bin Abdul Aziz, criticized what he called “disciples” who “come out to defend the Muslim Brotherhood, acting as if they are the Muslim Brotherhood ambassadors to Saudi Arabia or other Gulf states.” Additionally, in a widely circulated video recording of a recent speech in Bahrain, Dubai’s police chief, who enjoys close relations with the country’s prime minister, warned against the Muslim Brotherhood, stating that their “threat” to the region was just as serious as that of Iran’s. Additionally, I outlined in an article in Gulf News last year how a petition calling for reform sent to the UAE government by 130 academics was stillborn due to the fact that some of the signatories were affiliated with the Brotherhood in the country.

I was personally told by UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed that there are three issues of importance to the Arab Gulf states that Egypt’s Brotherhood must clarify in order for a new page to be opened between both sides. First, the Gulf states require clear assurances from the Brotherhood that it will not seek to “export the revolution” to the Gulf. Secondly, the Gulf states require assurances that any Muslim Brotherhood-backed government in Egypt will not compromise Gulf security. Bin Zayed finally added that the Gulf states would gladly commit to further investments if the Egyptian government adopts a clear developmental plan and position with regard to Egypt’s IMF and World Bank commitments — instead of playing hard to get.

Another senior Saudi official speaking under Chatham House rules at a recent international meeting cautioned the Islamist parties in Egypt and other parts of the Arab world not to “waste their time with expecting investments from the West,” since these countries are suffering from the fallout of the global financial crisis, and instead build ties with the Arab Gulf states.

The Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s new powerbrokers along with other Islamists, would do well to heed this advice, precisely because they are in dire need to mend Egypt's socioeconomic grievances — made a necessity after the revolution.

Furthermore, in a recent article in UAE’s The National newspaper, editorial writer Hassan Hassan outlined two additional issues that make the Gulf governments weary of the Brotherhood’s influence in their countries. In addition to the Brotherhood’s dominating “influence” on the Gulf’s education sector, the author states that the most problematic aspect is the “requirement for Gulf members [of the Brotherhood] to pledge allegiance to a figurehead in Egypt,” namely Mohamed Badie, the current supreme guide of the group.

Perhaps Qatar, the region’s rising diplomatic broker, can play a role in bridging the gap between the Gulf states and the Brotherhood in Egypt. Qatar, after all, has hosted senior Egyptian Brotherhood figures for decades, including Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who has lived in Doha since 1961, in addition to promising $10 billion in investment once “stability returns” to Egypt.

I previously outlined in an Al Jazeera article Egypt's importance to the Arab Gulf states, particularly because it is the only Arab state capable of balancing Iran’s military might. Moreover, there is much in common when it comes to the right-wing economic liberal ideologies adopted by the Arab Gulf states and the Brotherhood. This is evident in the affiliation of many leading businessmen with the Brotherhood, which advocates a free-market economy with a strong private sector.

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood will sooner or later face a conundrum on how to attract much needed investments from wealthy regimes that are largely suspicious of its agenda. Unlike Western officials, no Gulf state representative has visited the Brotherhood in Egypt (although Qatar’s emir did visit Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi last May). Nor have Gulf officials received representatives from the Brotherhood in their countries. The coming days will show us whether the Brotherhood’s pragmatism will lead them to start knocking on Gulf states’ doors.

Sultan al-Qassemi is a UAE-based commentator on Arab affairs.
ranjbe
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ranjbe »

The Brit poodles are finally realizing what their interventions in Libya and Syria are leading to:
When two car bombings killed nearly 50 people in the heart of the Syrian capital of Damascus just before Christmas, we in the West were quick to challenge claims made on state TV that the atrocities had been carried out by al-Qaeda. We were inclined to award more credibility to the Syrian rebels, who denied that the terror group was involved at all, and insisted that the attacks had been cynically staged by the government, perhaps as a bid for international sympathy.

However, all doubt ended last week when James Clapper, director of US national intelligence, informed the Senate Armed Services Committee that the Damascus bombings “had all the earmarks of an al-Qaeda attack”. Mr Clapper added that “we believe al-Qaeda in Iraq is extending its reach into Syria”. So, it’s official. Al-Qaeda is acknowledged as an ally of Britain and America in our desire to overturn the Syrian government
Meanwhile, in Libya there are menacing signs that last year’s Anglo-French intervention is starting to go wrong. The toppling of the Gaddafi regime has not brought an end to the killing. If anything, the fighting appears to be getting worse, as the country breaks into hostile armed fractions – a fertile hunting ground for al-Qaeda, our latest collaborator in the war on terror. I hope that the Prime Minister and his Foreign Secretary, William Hague, know what they are doing as they allow Britain to be dragged closer towards further intervention in the Middle East. But judging from their public remarks they may be playing a game whose rules they do not fully understand
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... llows.html
Singha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

american propagandu in WSJ trying to beat up India for importing oil from Iran.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... %3Darticle

gets trashed and beaten up by indian readers in the comments section.
devesh
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by devesh »

the comments section is interesting. there are not starry eyed worshipers of US. but still perhaps there is a bit too much belief in Iran being a "friend". This is debatable. and every Islamic theocracy ultimately seeks to control its own supporting demography against the host country if need be. but it seems this hasn't yet sunk in for most people.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Suppiah »

Unlike Jap money that is tied to purchased from Japan at super inflated prices, plus pay back in a stronger yen dealing a double whammy, Saudi money, if it does come would give us more freedom with contracts. It is indeed a good idea to wean Saudis away from TSP while keeping a close watch on their terror funding.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Suppiah »

Someone got to talk to Unkil and tell him we can't follow their latest fads and fancies at the drop of a hat forgetting our own interests.

But at the same time, it would be foolish indeed to believe that Iran is acquiring nuclear technology to generate power, that is like India importing cowdung cakes.. and even more foolish to assume that having gotten the bomb they would not use it against Israel. If I were POTUS or PM of Israel I would not believe that even for a split second.

The issue here is not Israel's destruction and its inevitability with nuclear Iran - issue is what signal that sends to Ummah? Already it is considered fairly acceptable and perfectly reasonable to pursue jihadi terror as a state policy or stay mute. The Ummah is facing enormous pressure from fanatics who are setting the agenda and getting away with it. The silent majority or substantial minority actually approves this and with glee is awaiting dividends.

In so-called moderate Malaysia, just the other day a mullah castigated the PM for appearing at the Batu caves (where there is a shrine for Hindu gods) calling it idol-worship. The so-called PDI - defenders of Islam in Indonesia has been freely attacking Christians and others with tacit state approval without any fear or trouble. We all know how 'secular' our friend Erdogan of Turkey is, who is busy banning alcohol and issuing statements that democracy is a 'station' not a destination. The destination obviously is a theocracy of the Saudi kind.

The point is, once Israel and jews are taken care of, the next target for the mullas would be yeevil yindoos in India. In that they would receive complete cooperation and help from Beijing and its fake liberal puppets in India who see benefits for themselves in the melee and chaos.

They would be emboldened by the fact that fanatic barbarianism and jehadi terrorism not only is ok but actually pays.

In order to set right this prospect that is of deadly consequence for India, the only way forward is for Iran to give up on Nukes. If they don't they should face destruction of a scale we only read about in history books or in movies like Spartacus. Like I said before, Germany and Japan should feel they got away lightly after WWII.

If the mullas are clever to hide nukes 200m underground, let them be safe there. What should instead be taken out is a country which would use it, the infrastructure that would benefit from it and the mullahs that would press the trigger. Total destruction of Iran so that not only it ceases to be a threat to humanity for next 500 years, but hafiz-e-pig, kiyani-e-sewer-rat and others that would ramp up their own terror emboldened by the 'success' of Iran, would get the right message.

More importantly, the silent minority that is now awaiting dividends would wake up, smell the sh.t and realise that imposing their version of Islam on others through terror and force would not pay.

Who knows, that would be the best way to ensure that ROP goes back to the ideals set and promoted by the Prophet (PBUH) and retrieved from the barbarians that have taken it hostage..
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by pgbhat »

New game on West Asian chessboard ---- CHINMAYA R. GHAREKHAN
For India, the stakes are high, not so much in Syria by itself but in the whole region, especially the sub-region of the Gulf. As was mentioned by this writer in an article entitled: “The new great game” (The Hindu, April 28, 2011), India might have to practise a new form of non-alignment or dual alignment between Saudi Arabia and Iran. The time for this has come. Continued instability in Syria might make the region unstable, affecting the production and export of oil, and, most importantly, the situation of the six-million Indian diaspora working in the region. India's vote in favour of the resolution which was vetoed by Russia and China on February 4 should not be seen as “no longer sitting on the fence”; rather, it was, one likes to think, a demonstration of our readiness to adapt our positions to changed circumstances. Consistency is not a virtue in international relations. It is quite possible that future challenges might produce yet different responses.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Saudi Arabia vows 'iron fist' to end violence

Saudi Arabia has vowed to use an "iron fist" to halt attacks against security forces in the country's east.

The Sunni Muslim kingdom has accused an unnamed foreign power, widely understood to mean Shiite Iran, of backing attacks on its forces in the Eastern Province.

Shiite activists have accused the kingdom's own security force of using violence against protesters.

Clashes first began at the height of the Arab uprisings last year and were provoked by the detention without charge of political campaigners

"It is the state's right to confront those that confront it first... and the Saudi Arabian security forces will confront such situations... with determination and force and with an iron first," the interior ministry said in a statement.

"Some of those few (who attacked security forces) are manipulated by foreign hands because of the kingdom's honourable foreign policy positions towards Arab and Islamic countries."

The statement came in response to a sermon preached in the Qatif area of the Eastern Province last week which criticised the government's handling of the situation, in which at least six people were killed.

Members of the minority have long complained of discrimination, which they say makes it harder for them to find government jobs, attend university or worship in open, than members of the Sunni majority.

Since the protests and clashes started last year, they have also complained of police checkpoints and patrols.

However, the government denies discriminating against Shiites and said the increased security is intended to protect Qatif residents and repeatedly blamed the violence on attacks on security forces.

Four people were killed in November, one in January and one earlier this month, the interior ministry has said in past statements.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

India's Arab Spirit

Sanjay Baru in Indian Express.
Riyadh and Delhi are quietly drawing closer, acknowledging their many shared concerns


Amidst last week’s focus in the Indian media about a coming conflict between Iran and Israel, not much attention was paid to a historic visit to Saudi Arabia by the defence minister, A.K. Anthony
.

Several interesting facts marked Anthony’s path-breaking travel across the Arabian Sea. First, the visit was the first ever such official visit by an Indian defence minister to the epicentre of the Arab world. Second, it came in response to persistent invitations from the Saudi government. Anthony was unable to make the trip on two earlier occasions when an invitation had been issued, but finally made it after a third call from Riyadh. Third, the defence minister was accompanied not just by diplomats and civilian officials but by three senior defence officials — the vice chief of army staff, the deputy chief of naval staff and an air vice marshal. Fourth, Anthony had one-on-one talks with his counterpart Prince Salman and an extended audience with King Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz Al Saud, Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques.

At the end of what has been described as “wide-ranging” talks, India and Saudi Arabia have agreed to set up a joint panel of officials who will together draft a defence cooperation agreement and a “road map” for defence cooperation that would include joint exercises between the three services of the two nations, training and co-production of defence equipment. The militaries and navies of both countries will undertake joint patrolling of the Arabian Sea, fighting sea piracy and disruption to maritime traffic.

For any single visit by a defence minister to another country, and that too, the very first visit announced with little fanfare just 48 hours before the visit occurred, these outcomes are significant. They have raised eyebrows around the world, most importantly in the Middle East and in South Asia. The Arab and Pakistani media seem to have taken greater note of this visit than the Indian media!

For all his low-profile manner, Anthony knows a thing or two both about domestic politics and strategic affairs. He timed his visit well, with an eye on politics at home and developments abroad.

If Iran seeks to meddle in domestic Indian politics by creating disaffection among the Shias of Uttar Pradesh, what better way to counter that by reminding all concerned that while the Shias maybe an important vote bank in UP, they constitute only 10 per cent of Indian Muslims, while the Sunnis account for an overwhelming 90 per cent. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Anthony’s visit would have also reassured the hugely important Malayali community in the Gulf, which has been unnerved by the resentment against expatriate workers in a region where economic disparities have come to the fore in the wake of the so-called “Arab Awakening”. Besieged Arab elites facing the anger of their masses have been tempted to point to foreign workers as the villains taking away jobs from the locals. But the region’s wiser political leadership has resisted such attempts in the knowledge that the Indian community in the Gulf constitutes the economy’s backbone.

As the threat of war looms large over the Gulf, India’s diplomatic activism, with the external affairs minister, S.M. Krishna, visiting Israel, Anthony visiting Saudi Arabia and National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon visiting the recently active Qatar, is clearly aimed both at averting conflict and insuring India against the risks of one if it became inevitable.

India’s main concern is energy security and the security of the Indian community in the region. Already, rising tensions have pushed the price of oil up. Even if hostilities were not to break out, the persistence of raised risk levels will keep oil prices high. Finally, if Iran were to lay mines in the sea as a pre-emptive or provocative act, :?: this would seriously disrupt the movement of oil tankers. Any sustained rise in the price of oil will hit the Indian economy hard.

King Abdullah has, it is reliably learnt, offered cast-iron assurances to Anthony that Saudi Arabia would step in and help both in making more oil available to India and in assuring the safety and security of Indian expatriates in the region.

An interesting aspect of the bilateral understanding reached between Anthony and Prince Salman is that India and Saudi Arabia would also undertake joint research and projects in the field of hydrography, exchanging information on nautical cartography and hydrographic surveys of coastal areas, ports, harbours and designated sea areas. In the near term this would also facilitate de-mining!

The people of India and Arabia have interacted across the waters between them for thousands of years. Omani and Gujarati seafarers were among the earliest and Arabs reached the Kerala coast as traders and teachers, not conquerors. In fact, among all the Muslim communities of the Middle East and Central Asia it is only the Arabs who never sought to conquer India.{How short is the memory. What t about Mohd Bin Qasim and repeated invasions of Sind?} The Turks, the Persians, and the Central Asians came by land to plunder or rule. The Arabs came by sea to trade and teach. :eek:

While history has its limitations in shaping contemporaneous and forward-looking strategic choices, it does shape popular perceptions. What is, however, driving the India- Saudi relationship today is not this benign history but shared concerns about stability and growth in the Arabian Sea littoral and the Gulf.

Saudi Arabia is as concerned about events in Iran as it is about trends in Pakistan. Riyadh’s outreach to New Delhi is also an indicator that the Saudis are worried about what is happening in Pakistan. In this “arc of instability” Riyadh hopes India would be a reliable and credible guarantor of stability.

The writer is director for geo-economics and strategy at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, and honorary senior fellow at the Centre for Policy Research
By and large agree but his amnesia about Qasim's invasion of Sindh and its permanent camp of Islam in India detracts from his opinion.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_20617 »

ramana wrote:India's Arab Spirit

Sanjay Baru in Indian Express.
Riyadh and Delhi are quietly drawing closer, acknowledging their many shared concerns

The Arabs came by sea to trade and teach.
By and large agree but his amnesia about Qasim's invasion of Sindh and its permanent camp of Islam in India detracts from his opinion.
Teach us what? We, Indians, taught Arabs.

India was well developed in the fields of Medicine, Mathematics, Astronomy, Philosophy, Metalurgy etc and not only Arabs but Greeks also benefited from this Indian knowledge.

From Wiki:
There is much evidence in history to show that Arabs and Muslims interacted with India and Indians from the very early days of Islam, if not before the arrival of Islam in Arabia. Arab traders transmitted the numeral system developed by Indians to the Middle East and Europe.

Many Sanskrit books were translated into Arabic as early as the Eighth century. George Saliba writes in his book 'Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance' that "some major Sanskrit texts began to be translated during the reign of the second Abbasid caliph al-Mansur [754–775], if not before; some texts on logic even before that, and it has been generally accepted that the Persian and Sanskrit texts, few as they were, were indeed the first to be translated."[44]
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Israel has deployed assets in Azerbaijan and another country. Everything is set for ops in Iran. Like I said - RED ALERT in the region.

--------------------
ramana ji - they don't trust TSP. TSP helped IRan in the N prog. India is more reliable as a partner.

------------------
June 12th - UAE will commission the Hormuz bypass.

--------------------
Press reports Kuwait and UAE will buy 5% of ONGC to help in divestment.
---------------------
Turkey and Syrian intelligence at war.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

shyamd wrote:Israel has deployed assets in Azerbaijan and another country. Everything is set for ops in Iran. Like I said - RED ALERT in the region.
Hidden war in the South Caucasus
As Iran and Azerbaijan trade barbs over allegations of assassination plots, many worry that these and other incidents mean the countries in the South Caucasus region - American-backed Georgia and Armenia too - have become an espionage no-man's-land in the conflict between the Iranian and Israeli intelligence services.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Carl wrote:
shyamd wrote:Israel has deployed assets in Azerbaijan and another country. Everything is set for ops in Iran. Like I said - RED ALERT in the region.
Hidden war in the South Caucasus
As Iran and Azerbaijan trade barbs over allegations of assassination plots, many worry that these and other incidents mean the countries in the South Caucasus region - American-backed Georgia and Armenia too - have become an espionage no-man's-land in the conflict between the Iranian and Israeli intelligence services.
Seems like Iran-Mahabad War of 1946 is going to be replayed again! :)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by VikramS »

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by abhischekcc »

VikramS wrote:http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/22/ ... ippur-war/

Interesting read but ....
This is a critical piece of the jigsaw puzzle. Kissinger was and is David Rocke's man. It shows who was behind the 1973 war. It also allows you to determine that the main purpose of the war was to allow the quadrupling of oil prices, which crushed the nascent economic receovery in the developing (post colonial) world, but mainly benefitted the US and KSA.

Even today, the wars against Libya (and planned against Iran) has the same interest lobby -
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Spot on Abi.It was also the collusion between Kissinger and the Shah,who had to pay for his very expensive US made toys,F-14s ,etc.,that made them conspire to raise the oil prices and screw the developing world.The same trick is being played out to day,where the oil dictatorships in league with the US like the Saudis and sheikdoms,benefit enormously along with western poil companies.while the independent oil-rich nations have to be destabilised as their wealth will enable them to resist attempts to overthrow them by the US and its cronies! AS we've also seen in the case with Libya,who now effectively "owns" the Libyan oil? The ordinary Libyans? Take a hike!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

So was it to fuel the soviet economy too (enemy of the US) as well? And what was the effect on the US economy of the high oil price and why is Obama asking the Saudi's to pump more to lower the price?

------------------------------
UAE to set up centres in India to train unskilled workers
Press Trust of India / Dubai Feb 22, 2012, 15:41 IST
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The UAE will set up training centres in India with an aim to control the flow of unskilled workers into the country's construction industry and bypass private recruitment agencies.

According to a Gulf News report, foreign workers must shell out Rs 80,396 (6,000 dirhams) each to learn skills in their home countries before moving to the UAE.

"The UAE will start by opening an office in India in early 2013 to train and rehabilitate workforce," the National Productivity Improvement Programme manager at the Federal Demographic Council (FDC) Saeed Abdullah said.

He said that the ratio of unskilled labour in the construction sector amounts up to 85%. The workers will have to bear the cost of the training but will no longer have to pay thousands of dirhams to recruitment agencies or private travel agents to get jobs, he added.

While India is the first country where centres will be established, both Pakistan and Bangladesh will also have these centres. Abdullah said the "first batch of (trained) workers will be 5,000 in the first year, 20,000 in 2014 and 50,000 in 2015".

"The UAE government seeks to decrease the number of unskilled workers in the construction sector, considered a sector which employs the highest number of unskilled workers," he was quoted as saying by the newspaper.

Industry representatives said that the new rule to train workers would likely result in companies being forced to raise wages to cover the cost.


"This will affect hiring conditions and wage levels," Chairman of Al Mansouri Construction Amer Al Mansouri said. He also warned that the new rule could make construction more expensive and called for the authorities to discuss the move with the UAE Contractors Association, developers and construction companies before reaching a final decision.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

70 nations 'friends of syria' are meeting in tunisia today to discuss the matter. arab nations are known to have started supplying arms to syrian rebels.

Homs is the new Benghazi.

we can expect Assad dead or in exile @ russia in say 6 months.

p.s. it seems only the purest of the pure wahabis are kosher and will be allowed to exist - all others arab nationalists, baathists, qadhafis, shia iraqis, shia persians need not apply.

at the end of these dominoes, KSA(Scar) will rightfully claim its right as the king of the hill with its dark vizier the pakis smiling behind the throne ? the hyenas led by bahrain will stage a grand march past in Scar's honour :oops:
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

Bhadrakumar: India with ‘FOS’, pleases Saudi, US, Israel - http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2 ... us-israel/

An older piece: Saudi Arabia's Invisible Hand in the Arab Spring - http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ ... rab-spring
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

X-post...

Datapoint for a future post connecting Attaturk Secular Turkey, Secular West and Secular India
A_Gupta wrote:From twitter and PTI correspondent in Pakistan
Rezaul Hasan Laskar ‏


Turkish Aerospace Industries to refurbish 45 Pakistani F-16s in service since 1982-83. Avionics & structure will be modified.

Turkish Aerospace Industries to complete upgrades of 45 Pakistani F-16 Block 15 jets by September 2014.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by abhischekcc »

shyamd wrote:So was it to fuel the soviet economy too (enemy of the US) as well? And what was the effect on the US economy of the high oil price and why is Obama asking the Saudi's to pump more to lower the price?
[/quote]

The strengthening of the Soviets was an unintended consequence, but a manageable one.

The impact on the US economy of the 1973 decision was the hollowing of their manufacturing base. But the banking community did not care because they started playing paper games - LBO, etc. All they did after that was they managed one financial bubble by creating an even bigger one. Eventually this bomb burst in 2008, and there is no more 'collateral' to blow bubbles, that is why there is no going back to the former days.

Entire western civilization is a ponzi scheme, they need new entrants to support older members :mrgreen:
why is Obama asking the Saudi's to pump more to lower the price?
But does he really mean it? Entire US foreign policy under Obama has been to push global oil demand towards KSA - that is why Libya happened, and that is what is happening in Iran's case. KSA is the true instigator of the war against Libya and Iran, not Israel.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Opposite bro. They increase oil supply to push prices down during election year.

Libya - while yes KSA does benefit, they were by no means instigators. They played a very limited role at best.

After 1973, US threatened the House of Saud - Saud's cleverly seized Aramco slowly. By 80 I think it was 100% owned and US co's were booted out of production.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by krisna »

Mujtahidd: A Tweeting Thorn in the Side of Al Saud
A controversial campaign by the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia to discredit Twitter has failed to silence @mujtahidd, a rising tweeting star exposing the corruption of the royal family. In an exclusive interview with Al-Akhbar, @mujtahidd spoke about his motives and vision for change in the Saudi kingdom.
Last month, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia Abdul-Aziz al-Sheikh issued a statement calling on Muslims to avoid Twitter. He argued that Twitter is used to “spread lies,” “issue fatwas without basis and not supported by evidence,” and “smear” important religious and political figures. Many were not convinced by this argument and began to speculate about the real reason behind the Saudi mufti issuing such an injunction against Twitter in particular, as opposed to the other websites and forums popular among Saudis.
Since last November, @mujtahidd has been tweeting about the most prominent members of the ruling family. In the process he has revealed a great deal about their various acts of corruption and financial scandals, in addition to details about their extravagant lifestyles supported by state coffers.

The list of individuals linked to the royal family targeted by @mujtahidd thus far includes the Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz and a number of his sons, including Royal Diwan chief of staff Khaled Tuwaijri, Saudi Crown Prince Nayef bin Abdul-Aziz (who @mujtahidd revealed has recently undergone bypass surgery), and Nayef’s son Prince Saud, who is currently serving as his father’s chief of staff.

Others targeted include Minister of Defense Salman bin Abdul-Aziz, Deputy Minister of Defense Khaled bin Sultan, Prince Talal bin Abdul-Aziz, Chairman of Al Hilal Saudi Football Club Abdulrahman bin Musa’ad, Prince Nayef bin Mamdouh, and head of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice Abdul Latif al-Sheikh.
These tweets helped @mujtahidd attract more than 200,000 followers on Twitter in just over two months. This phenomenon has caused a stir within the ruling family, which is attempting to expose the identity of this mysterious person in hope of putting an end to the revelations. This issue has become a top priority as @mujtahidd’s followers now look forward to reading the latest juicy details of what is taking place behind the gates of the princes’ palaces.

@mujtahidd promised many more surprises in the coming days as he takes his activities beyond just tweeting. In an email conversation with Al-Akhbar, @mujtahidd promised many more surprises in the coming days as he takes his activities beyond just tweeting. He insists on concealing his true identity as a “security precaution,” and he says “anyone can put forth their own theory.” The details of the information revealed have led many to conclude that @mujtahidd is either one of the members of the ruling family or someone who was until recently close to the decision-making circles.
Hope this unravels or at least brings more scrutiny into the saud family.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Virupaksha »

krisna wrote: Hope this unravels or at least brings more scrutiny into the saud family.
most likely a call to twitter CEO
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Barzani promised the Syrian kurds intel suport to fight Bashar. Opposite to Maliki & Iran. There is serious talk of an autonomous Kurdish province in Syria - exactly to GCC plans.

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All the Hamas boys are out of Syria and have left fro Gaza via Cairo. Meshaal is in Jordan and arrived there with Qatari Crown prince.
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French Turkish security cooperation continues as France conducts ops against PKK funding networks and arrests suspects.

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9000 Libyan police recruits are in Jordan for training in KASOTC

550 Lbyans have been trained by the Jordanians intel services in last 6 months.
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Collapse of economic activity in Syria expercted.

Hezbollah have plced their booby trapped droes and anti air batteries on standbyy to attack Israel as diversion. The hezbollah politician are scared of israeli reaction. Nasrallah is 100% behind Assad. Assad has provided support for the operations.


PRC even though vetoe the UN resolution, they dont think Assad can survive. Damascus was the first major MIDDLE East Hub for the Chiese intel. Guanbu The Syrian office of PRC state security Guanbu sent many messges to Bijig warning that Assad's fall is inevitble.

Apparently Guanbu has been on the ball on events in Libya and Egypt i.e. got it right. So Top Brass at PRC Commie party HQ is listening.

Guanbu has a thinktank called the Chinese Institute of Contemporary International Relations- they have been taasked with preparing for post assad world. The think tank told leadership to be neutrl on Syria as whoever comes in next l guarantee all the contracts with PRC. PRC role mainly civilian but russian contracts maybe cancelled as mainly military in nature.
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David MILIband has joined an advisory board of Indus Basin holdings -run by a Paki financier called Aamir Sarfraz.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Russia wants a role to coordinate onthe middle east with the GCC but GCC told them their poisition in the UNSC is an obstacle to this. They are building a consensus for international intervention but the US elections are a major obstacle to this apparently.

At the minimum arming the opposition will be done in the friends of syria grouping.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

I can confirm Bahrain and KSA will join into one Union most likely by the end of the year.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Putin: ‘The West wants regime change in Iran’
Under the guise of trying to prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction they [the US] are attempting something else entirely and setting different goals – regime change," news agencies quote Putin as saying.

The Russian PM pointed out that US foreign policy, including that in the Middle East, was expensive, inefficient and largely unpredictable. Putin also added that, among other things, it may eventually disserve Israel.

"They changed regimes in North Africa. What will they do next? In the end, Israel may find itself between the devil and the deep blue sea," he said.

Talking about the US presidential elections and America’s relationship with Russia in the event of the right wing coming to power Putin said: “if some neoconservatives start trying to tighten the screws on us, they can do it till the thread bursts.”

“I think our position on Syria in the UN Security Council shows that we are not going to nod along to anyone. We hope it will always be like that,” he said in response to a statement by one of the officials attending the meeting that it was about time Russia stopped doing whatever America tells it to do.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by pgbhat »

Struggling farmers furious after Iraq stops buying US rice, opts for cheaper grain from India
DAYTON, Texas — The talk of the day among Ray Stoesser and other rice farmers is Iraq’s decision not to buy U.S. rice, a stinging move that adds to a stressful year punctuated by everything from drought to unusual heat.
“That’s just not right,” the 63-year-old Stoesser fumed. “If we’ve got some rice to sell, they ought to pay a premium for it just because this is the country that freed them.”
“You would think with all that we’ve done over there, there would be a way to get them to do business with us,” said Ronald Gertson, who grows rice in Lissie, Texas.

Iraq has been buying instead from Asia and South America, and it recently lowered its quality standards so it would be able to buy rice from India, something that was impossible under the Iraqi Grain Board’s old rules, said Andy Aaronson, chairman of the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Rice Interagency Commodity Estimate Committee. It also recently bought rice from Uruguay, which grows a variety similar to the American one but sold for less.

“Iraq seems to be buying on price, and the lowest offered price is coming now from India,” Aaronson said.
“We invested so much in that country, and we feel like it’s something of a slap in the face,” said Wagner, who’s considering planting more soybeans or a new crop on his 4,000-acre Mississippi Delta farm.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

shyamd wrote:I can confirm Bahrain and KSA will join into one Union most likely by the end of the year.
Wow! shyamd ji I will hold you to this! :) It will be a massive blow to the Iranian regime's domestic H&D.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ldev »

shyamd wrote:I can confirm Bahrain and KSA will join into one Union most likely by the end of the year.
This is huge. But it only makes sense if it defuses the Shia population bomb in Bahrain. And for that to happen after such a union takes place KSA forcibly relocates the Bahraini Shia population to other parts of KSA to remove that local Shia majority which Iran uses to its advantage. I wonder if that will happen? The other issue is the relatively easy entry/exit for non GCC nationals into Bahrain and its liquor laws. Will those change?. If not, will the union really prove a bigger deterent to Iran than the current Saudi umbrella over Bahrain?

If however, there is a full political union with certain special rights given to Bahrain, then Kind Hamad will become just another provincial Saudi Governor!!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Carl wrote: Wow! shyamd ji I will hold you to this! :) It will be a massive blow to the Iranian regime's domestic H&D.
Yup. Expect it some time at the end of the year.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

ldev wrote: This is huge. But it only makes sense if it defuses the Shia population bomb in Bahrain. And for that to happen after such a union takes place KSA forcibly relocates the Bahraini Shia population to other parts of KSA to remove that local Shia majority which Iran uses to its advantage. I wonder if that will happen? The other issue is the relatively easy entry/exit for non GCC nationals into Bahrain and its liquor laws. Will those change?. If not, will the union really prove a bigger deterent to Iran than the current Saudi umbrella over Bahrain?

If however, there is a full political union with certain special rights given to Bahrain, then Kind Hamad will become just another provincial Saudi Governor!!
Non GCC nationals can already go into other GCC countries relatvely easily. Just need to apply for visa and you can get it cheaply and quickly.

Will be interesting to see what happens to the liquor laws etc, doubt it will change though. But each of them have to give up on some power.

But the focus of this is economic more than anything else apparently. Defence is already integrated across the GCC. You see, problem with Oman and Bahrain is the economy - so by forming a union, Bahrain gets access to money to fund budgets and can "deter any predators (includes US) in the region".
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Aditya_V »

So these are some of the real reasons Iraq was attacked.

Iraq's basmati import torments US
We liberated their country for one thing," said Texas Congressman Ted Poe. "We would think they would consider the US in trade since we spent billions of dollars not only to liberate their country, but to rebuild their infrastructure ."
Twelve Congressmen have fired off a letter to Iraq's trade minister Khair Alla Babaker earlier this week pressing him to get Iraqis back on the American long-grain variety.

The letter said that there was a 77% drop in rice sales to Iraq between 2010 and 2011, even though "not long ago, Iraq represented the largest market for US rice" .
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