Indian Interests

[tsarkar]

Gen. Ashok Mehtajee is pointing towards a National Defense Strategic Review covering PMO to pandu/thulla on beat

There are appropriate forums for this, like Cabinet Commitee for Security chaired by PM & including other ministers & secretaries.

So for example wht will be role of desi intel -indian pvt cos- local sentiment-ngos AH version players & host of other players in such scenarios for Desh? How can they become force multipliers tht's wht its all about.

While very idealistic, it is practically unwise to involve all & sundry in decision making, especially "local sentiment" & "NGO".

This will lead to "local sentiments" hijacking discussions to emotive topics like, say, 50% reservation for women in army or "NGOs" demanding withdrawal of AFSPA.

They are double-edged swords rather than "force multipliers"

Has the terror attacks post 26/11 being thwarted cuz we have inducted some new tanks or more mountain divs or something else

Neither will a pan national discussion thwart such attacks. We dont need more verbose discussions

[ramana]

I think Ashok Mehta is asking for a more comprehensive review than the annual reviews (IA/IAF/IN and now NS) which have become now routine and most likely discuss immediate and short term issues. When the first SDR was conducted India had completed the POKII tests and was facing an uncertain future. Since then there have been many changes in the geopolitical area (9/11, US stasis, PRC rise, IUCNA deal, MENA turmil etc.) and hence need a comprehensive review.

[satya]

Say there's a young politician and he wants to enter politics and make his mark there . Now his objective is to have his presence on political ground of the state/region/country. This is his destination . Three stages occur in tht destination : first his preparation to start this journey , 2nd to travel the distance and 3rd to get a prolonged foothold in destination or we say living in dilli's lutyens bungalow .In this journey he will kiss the feet of the lowest of the low , he will share a peg or two with the criminals of the area & he will even taken money from the enemies of the state always knowing their intention yet sure of himself tht he can manipulate them . To me this is SDR be it for a politico or a state or a business .

When we talk of roles of NGOs we are not gonna ask them for their feedback well we can pretend we want their feedback but in essence its their rxn to make up a scale so we look at the way they will react say Godhra-2 or farmers suicide so on and how best to use tht rxn to our advantage , same applies to media & pandu on beat . Key is to know their rxn and how to gain from it .Nothing is unpredictable for a keen observer .

When we have this we find a timeline needed to add another player and at wht level of expertise he may have an impact .

As for committees yes there r many but most r deptt. specific none works on scale of SDR not even planning commission

[ramana]

So you do endorse or support a new SDR!

[satya]

Ramanajee yes

[kumarn]

For India's benefit, Modi bashers must be ignored

Senior analyst B Raman feels that the so called 'secular' Narendra Modi bashers are doing a great disservice to India by quarantining the Gujarat chief minister in his past. Instead, the youth power should support Modi's Gujarat development model so that it spreads to other parts of the country.

[ramana]

Did the worm turn?

[Virupaksha]

I think every one in BR knows Shri Raman ji's statements record to think too much about 1 article.

It is a data point statement stating which way he thinks the wind seems to be blowing in capital today.

[Prem]

India's last maharaja of Jaipur dies at 79

AP) JAIPUR, India (AP) — Thousands of people poured into the courtyard of a sprawling palace in the western Indian city of Jaipur on Sunday to pay their last respects to Brigadier Sawai Bhawani Singh, the city's last maharaja.Singh, 79, died late Saturday in a hospital on the outskirts of New Delhi where he had spent the last two weeks, his daughter Diya Kumari said. He had suffered from high blood pressure and a lung infection.Singh served as the maharaja or hereditary ruler of Jaipur after his father Sawai Man Singh's death in June 1970. Jaipur was one of hundreds of tiny royal kingdoms that dotted India until the country's independence from Britain in 1947.The rulers continued to hold onto their titles after independence. However, Singh served as maharaja for only a few months until India formally abolished the royal titles in 1971.
Nevertheless, he continued to be revered in western India's Rajasthan state and was often referred to by his royal title.Singh served in the Indian army and fought in the 1971 war against rival Pakistan.
On Sunday evening his body — dressed in a military uniform — was laid out in the courtyard of the Chandra Mahal or Moon Palace, one of the palaces that continued to be home to the former royal family. Thousands of local residents and tourists paid their respects, many carrying garlands and flowers to place by his body

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/04/ ... 4725.shtml

[Paul]

X-posted from West Asia thread

Many people go because they need to eat, and feed families back home. As one of the mallus whose father was there, I can tell you we may not have made it otherwise. My parents survived on one meal a day before they got married, both families. Up until I was about three the situation was the same - although my father did have jobs and by then they were able to have two meals a day. They remember it well, and made damned sure me and my sisters never forgot it. It was only after my father got a job in the gulf, yes bowing and scraping to these Arabs, although he was in a fairly senior position in national oil company, that they could breathe easy. There are literally millions of families who went through this. It is men like my father who do this day after day, swallowing their pride, not letting humiliation come in the way of their families' income stability, and mothers who day after day after day stretched all the pennies to event-horizon levels, that allowed our generation to ask questions like the above. We should be on our collective knees in reverence to the millions of unacknowledged or unrecognised men and women like these, who had awe-inspiring courage and fortitude - not just a momentary act of instinctive bravery, but decades of stubborn blood thickening hard headed sustained courage.

Is MMS's policy of according economic interests highes priority at the cost of H&D not similar to what was followed by our previous generation as mentioned by JEM....

[devesh]

Thanks GD for putting your finger directly on the strategic lesson India can derive from this Libya NFZ campaign.

IMHO we will not be building Sudarshans in any great number, for a long time. It simply doesn't fit in with what our doctrine currently appears to be.

We simply do not have the capacity to inflict the sort of aerial punishment against our enemies, that NATO can. We will not have that capacity for decades. There will be no SEAD, no instant sterilization of Paki airspace, no quick and absolute air-dominance while the ground fighting is done by dashing young Baloch rebels embedded with spec-ops cadre. Most likely there will not even be any "strategic bombing" as such... let alone smart munitions, fuel and spares stocks will require us to make every sortie count for the maximum strategic advantage.

IAF as I see it, has four roles in the present doctrine: (1) defence of Indian airspace, (2) interdiction of enemy counterthrusts and supply lines, (3) neutralization of the enemy's long-range strike capability (airbases/missile assets) and (4) CAS for the IA's offensives. Our grunts are the ones who will win the war, or not, by standing on the enemy's soil and killing his sepoys/jihadis mano-a-mano. IAF will only facilitate that.

Accordingly I expect IAF to be very parsimonious with its sparse stocks of PGMs. They will be used only against targets whose priority is very well defined and against which the strike window is limited.

Yes, within a week we will be down to HSLD and dumb bombs and our sorties will be increasingly vulnerable to Paki air defence systems (no chance that we will knock them all out in an initial display of overwhelming shock and awe.)

Within three-four weeks of hostilities, TSPAF may be completely finished. However, I would guess that probably half (or less) of our initial air strength will be serviceable by that point.

And that's as good as IAF being knocked out... because if we keep on losing planes and the Chinese open a new front at that point, we are phugged. Whatever we achieve on the ground will have to be achieved in three weeks, after which the IA in Pakistan cannot count on IAF support.

That is the true cost of facing the spectre of a two-front war. Even if the Chinese don't actually do anything, the mere possibility of their becoming involved places severe constraints on our armed forces that greatly strengthens Paki conventional capability relative to ours.

++1.

a very astute post by Rudradev ji. Brihaspati ji's observation that military superiority eventually vanishes is also a good thing to keep in mind. the fact that whatever military superiority we might achieve wrt Pak will simply be neutralized by US/PRC means that conventional warfare can never be relied upon to win us a total victory. there was perhaps a time when conventional war was still an option for us, if we wanted to completely break Pak's spine. but that is now gone. we've been pushed into a corner and only option we have is to do a Russia. covert subversion is much better and Russia proved the same when it dealt a swift blow to US ambitions in Ukraine. Paki situation is different but fundamentally unless we take the war to their homes and outside of the military arena, Pakistan cannot be broken. mango Paki has to know "manasa-vaacha-karmana" that India is the absolute dominant in the game. that is when the mango Paki will come out of his delusional fantasies of global Ummah. that is when India has achieved psychological victory.

i'm starting to wonder if we should completely shift our focus to asymmetric subversion while still keeping military superiority, b/c i get the feeling sometimes that India now is actually weaker than Pak simply b/c Pak happens to be world class beggar/La-Whore.

Kautilya was a master of asymmetric strategy. here's some stuff that Kautilya recommended as possible tactics of Asym. warfare:

In his philosophy of ‘concealed war’ and ‘silent war’ he discusses the use of guerrilla warfare, assassination, use of prostitutes as assassins and informers, and contrived conflicts to win battles against an adversary king.[4] However, the interesting aspect of ‘concealed war’ and ‘silent war’ is that he advises both the powerful kings and the weak kings to use ‘concealed war’ and ‘silent war’ as a way to keep the enemy kings in check.[5] He also states that weaker states will always resort to the use of silent war as defeating a bigger and stronger state in the battlefield is impossible for them. Thus he believes that the biggest threat that a ‘super power’ state (in his time, the Mauryan Empire) is not on the battlefield, but is from silent and proxy war that invariably involve asymmetric warfare tactics.

http://centreright.in/2010/02/kautilya- ... c-warfare/

[RajeshA]

X-Posted from Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis Thread

Study shows that Muslims will conquer the world by 2050: SIOE (Stop Islamization of Europe)

United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) calculations show that the world population is rapidly increasing, having reached 6.9 billion in 2010 and will near 9.15 billion by 2050.

The world of the future will be crowded, impoverished, and Islamic.

The UNFPA data suggests that India’s population rose by 16 million, totaling 1.21 billion, this year and it is expected that the nation’s population will witness an increase of 400 million, reaching 1.61 billion and surpassing China, in 2050.

The sharp rise in India’s population will come from Muslims, who now constitute 14% of the country’s population. Muslim women in India display a much higher Total Fertility Rate (TFR) than Hindus. On average, the number of children born to Indian Muslim women is 4.1, for Indian Hindu women 2.9.

The TFR figures support the calculation that the Islamic population of India will reach 340 million within the next forty years.

Guys, how about shutting down your computers, going home and making love! I suggest a fertility rate of Laloo Prasad!

Seriously speaking,
we should stop this campaign for population control and free distribution of condoms etc. In the end not all communities really get the message! In fact the government should think of means and ways of supporting child birth amongst the Hindus!

In fact I propose a dedicated government program to give financial incentives support to the children of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes for their upliftment, as well as more medical support!

[RamaY]

^ combined with reservations for converted Dalits india will have EJ problem. Be aware of what you wish for

On a second thought we don't need BD to become world largest Muslim nation. At some point we will have majority of Muslim and (sic) secular MPs who can bring in Sharia and change India's name to Mughalistan. After all Mughals were secular and Akbar is closet secular

[RajeshA]

^ combined with reservations for converted Dalits india will have EJ problem. Be aware of what you wish for

On a second thought we don't need BD to become world largest Muslim nation. At some point we will have majority of Muslim and (sic) secular MPs who can bring in Sharia and change India's name to Mughalistan. After all Mughals were secular and Akbar is closet secular

RamaY garu,
I mentioned in the other thread, when "data" changes, preferences change too!

I think there should be no reservations for converted Dalits! Other religions have no castes! Only eebel Hinduism has castes! Those who have converted have gone to more egalitarian religions and do not need any more protection.

The thing is SC/ST is the only real designated group which can receive state affirmative support without much protest from religious minorities. This allows a large section of the "Indic" population in India to receive support for more children to balance the fertility rates amongst the Muslims. The richer Indics can afford to have more children anyway!

Any other discrimination, e.g. on the basis of religion just would not fly because India is a secular country!

Other than that it is up to the Dharmiks to ensure that the SC/ST remain Dharmik and do not go over to Abrahamic thinking!

[Klaus]

^^^ What we really need at this point of time is GoI overseeing a program wherein internationally accredited workers from India go on to migrate and work in empty lands of Russia, Angola, Namibia, Kaneda and Oz, subsequently becoming entrepreneurs, business owners and politicians.

Indian diplomas and degrees need to get ready accreditation internationally through accords such as Washington & Dublin treaties so that Indic demographics can lead the charge when the next big industry comes around (like IT of today).

[ramana]

Reggie Asked


Can this be confirmed?

http://hindustan.net/forums/showthread.php?t=663

Perhaps Stephen Paul Cohen gives Shekhar Gupta, the editor of the Indian Express, the most interesting insight into this type of thinking in an interview:

"If India had not been partitioned, I would have been sitting here not with you but with a Chinese and we would be talking about how to contain this mighty India that straddles all the oil routes, dominates central Asia and so on."


Kind of matches what is dismissed on forum as CT!!!

here is a US expert talking about cutting down India and the process that separation of Burma started.....

[RamaY]

^wow! Satyameva jayate!

[brihaspati]

^^^dismiss Cohen as a loony! That should take care of it! No one did anything in a planned manner then - it simply could not be possible! Things just happened - and too quickly, and unexpectedly! Leaders who were in intimate touch with the hearts and minds of the "people", who were also secular and non-communal and hence close to the hearts and minds of all "communities" - did not know of the sudden rise of forces that would cause the Partition! It happened all too quickly and "unexpectedly"!

The British government and secret services which penetrated each and every "armed insurrectionist" group successfully, could not penetrate the ML goon-army trained and led by demobilized BIA Muslim soldiers - and even that training just happened too quickly! and unexpectedly!

No one really knew anything - it happened so fast! It must be Cohen the loony and his imagination!

[Pranav]

"If India had not been partitioned, I would have been sitting here not with you but with a Chinese and we would be talking about how to contain this mighty India that straddles all the oil routes, dominates central Asia and so on."

The other view is that an unpartitioned India would have been paralyzed and riven with conflict. What's hobbling India is not the partition but the bad governance.

Once Islamism loses credibility and collapses ideologically, one can think about a united Indian subcontinent.

[devesh]

^^^
i suspect the issue is much deeper. for Islam to collapse in Bharat-varsha (extended India), Pakistan has to be neutralized. there testi**** have to be cut off. mango Pakis should simply loose all faith in Islam. as Sindh, and Punjab become reunited with India on the basis of age old Dharma, that will trigger a process where Islam will simply collapse in India. all the Deobandi networks and Islamist centers from Lucknow to Hyderabad will simply vanish. but Paki dissolution will require India's strong commitment to subversive warfare. as such, even without India's involvement Pak is devolving. but unless we take part in the process, we might not be able to direct it in the *right* direction.

as for Cohen, the deliberate silence of US/UK honchos when it comes to India is b/c they know the true power of akhand Bharat. GF is a good example of this. his silence is not stupidity. it is the ultimate form of acknowledgement that India scares them very deeply!!!

[Pranav]

I tend to think Islamism may become discredited in Pak first. That is because one has to first experience full-spectrum Islamism before one can become disillusioned with it. "Neti, neti"!

[devesh]

they survived b/c the dream of Ummah remained. they conveniently blamed the British for their losses in India. in reality of course, the tide was turning and Islamic power centers would have been reclaimed into Dharmic fold had the British not entered. but since they came in, Islamists now blame them and keep the dream alive. British are gone. America has taken the place. but America is fundamentally an outside power and cannot replicate Britain's Empire directly. therefore it will be easier to crush this delusion. the tactic is to transfer their failure as the fault of some outsiders. this way, the "Hindu" remains "weak" in their mind and there is never a final cultural conflict which will settle the issue. the psychology is very unique: Hindu is weak >> if only outside intervention was stopped, we would crush "Hindu" >> artificial sense of superiority. the only way to settle Paki problem is for Islamists and "Hindus" to directly confront on cultural/social terms while also questioning their hold on Political arena in some geographic areas.

it has to be established that it was fabricated "feeling" by Arabs to increase their own self worth. they have to loose all hope in Islam that is when we will reclaim the Indus civilization.

[Klaus]

^^^ Slowly we are coming around to realize and vindicate B'ji's stand that 1971 was a tactical victory but a strategic blunder by IG.

[JE Menon]

Out of curiosity, who has argued that the partition of India was not part of British plans to divide and rule and to keep its control over the sub-continent the extent that it could, and keep the Russians at bay - or suggested that this was a conspiracy theory? Where on BRF? Cause I read pretty much everything along these lines on the forum and haven't seen anything like that. Because I would like to tear that/those guy(s) a new one.

Even what Steven Cohen is saying is not new. It was part of considerations even then, which is one of the reasons why Pakistan was such a useful creation.

And let's not forget that Steven is "uneven" as per BRF - perhaps this is one incident where he is in fact "even steven"? Maybe because he said what we wanted to hear.

Pranav is right that there was an alternative view that "an unpartitioned India would have been paralyzed and riven with conflict" (that's my view by the way). The answer to the question that Uneven theorises that he would have been discussing with a Chinese counterpart would have been no different than what the British came up with in the early 20th century.

Let's be clear, there is nothing "CT" about the fact that everybody wants to screw our happiness to their advantage - that is the base position which we start from. This does not remove the need to deal with them to our advantage.

On the other hand, CT is about linking everything to some "Jewish" grand strategy, including their own mass massacre by the way (or is that being denied?) on the most tenuous of "evidence" (more like stringing a convenient narrative), as we are doing in the so-called "New World Order" thread, which is unfortunate. Have people read and seen some of the links in there? There's even a link to one of the worst slurs on the Jews (the blood libel). If an Israeli forum posted something like that about Hindus, it is clear what sort of sentiment that would arouse.

But that thread is a sandbox, and freedom of speech must not be sidetracked so long as the discussions remain within forum regulations. (On a sidenote, participants please see archan's post about the reports on the Indian nuclear thread. Control yourselves guys, we only have so much time on our hands).

[Stan_Savljevic]

^^^ How about the EVM dhaaga?

[Pranav]

On the other hand, CT is about linking everything to some "Jewish" grand strategy, including their own mass massacre by the way (or is that being denied?) on the most tenuous of "evidence" (more like stringing a convenient narrative), as we are doing in the so-called "New World Order" thread, which is unfortunate. Have people read and seen some of the links in there? There's even a link to one of the worst slurs on the Jews (the blood libel). If an Israeli forum posted something like that about Hindus, it is clear what sort of sentiment that would arouse.

But that thread is a sandbox, and freedom of speech must not be sidetracked so long as the discussions remain within forum regulations.

Hmm? You are misrepresenting my position. I never generalize about any ethnicity. Also, the link you refer to was to a book written by an Israeli professor from Bar-Ilan University. And many of the sources I have used are Jewish. Anyway, you are welcome to post any substantive criticisms in that thread.

[JE Menon]

Pranav,

What about the Israeli sources that dispute and utterly undermine that blood libel? How come every second post in that thread has something about "Jewish" this or that? Whether I'm misrepresenting your position or not, which I am sure I am not, others can judge by reading that thread. The fact remains that you have made certain claims there - for one, "credible" evidence that Sonia Gandhi is a "Soviet agent" or something like that - which are frankly unsustainable in any serious discussion. Not to mention a number of hints and innuendo designed to drive the thought process in a direction which suggests that the source of all this global turmoil is a "Jewish oligarch led world order"... Why not just an "oligarch led world order", since oligarchs other than Jewish ones are involved as well? Or does everything dwindle down to the Rothschilds, Warburgs and Schiffs? What about the immensely wealthy Indians (Hindus and Zoroastrians included), not to mention numerous wealthy Christians worldwide? Are they not part of this oligarchy? Why are they not included in the analyses and source data?

As for the sources being "Jewish", well this is probably no different from saying that "atrocities agains Dalits" stories coming out in the Indian media are written by "Hindus" - in other words, we are focusing on that part of the source's identity that will justify a particular line of thinking. The Jewish people are nothing if not opinionated, and almost certainly we can find some holocaust deniers there as well, just as there are Jews now living in Israel and outside who oppose the existence of a Jewish state.

That thread, therefore, does not give an historical "overview", but rather a very specific historical perspective which, at best, distracts us from addressing the reality that the US is now right next to us, armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons, that China (increasingly uneasy about the subtlety of Indian diplomacy) is doing the only thing that Communist regime knows best, bringing out a sledgehammer to a million undriven nails (good luck with that). That, in effect, may be the most important role of so-called CTs - to distract, misguide and confuse.

Meanwhile, the answer to my long-standing question of what is not part of the global conspiracy is yet to be seen.

As for "substantive" criticisms, well I will argue that there will never be a criticism that is substantive enough of such theories, nowadays almost a belief system, just as one would be hardpressed to find a "substantive" enough criticism of god for those who believe. I personally have no problem having all this discussed in the NWO thread (apart from some regret), but when it leaks out into things like the "Indian interests" thread, I will call it into question - and request all to take this particular discussion back to that sandbox.

I have no intention of posting on the thread. BRFites I believe are quite capable of sifting the wheat from the chaff. This is my last post on this issue here. Meanwhile, the increasingly outdated and uneven steven, will undoubtedly come out with another juicy quote sooner or later.

Those who have read his books on India, meanwhile, will find that while he is in fact uneven, he often has useful nuggets of info - including about our security and foreign affairs bureaucracy - that we will find to be fairly even, because, well, it amounts to nice gora pat on the back. So long as we keep that in mind, I suppose, a momentary gleam of pride at the pat is not that harmful.

[Pranav]

As for "substantive" criticisms, well I will argue that there will never be a criticism that is substantive enough of such theories, nowadays almost a belief system, just as one would be hardpressed to find a "substantive" enough criticism of god for those who believe. I personally have no problem having all this discussed in the NWO thread (apart from some regret), but when it leaks out into things like the "Indian interests" thread, I will call it into question - and request all to take this particular discussion back to that sandbox.

I have no intention of posting on the thread. BRFites I believe are quite capable of sifting the wheat from the chaff.

You are the one who brought it up here, I am telling you to bring it up in that thread if you wish. Your questions can certainly be addressed there.

[Pranav]

Why not just an "oligarch led world order", since oligarchs other than Jewish ones are involved as well? Or does everything dwindle down to the Rothschilds, Warburgs and Schiffs? What about the immensely wealthy Indians (Hindus and Zoroastrians included), not to mention numerous wealthy Christians worldwide? Are they not part of this oligarchy? Why are they not included in the analyses and source data?

Since you insist on bring this up in this thread, let me elaborate a little. It is true that the Rothschild, Schiff and Warburg families have played a leading role in the effort for a unipolar world order, as is described in the thread http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... =24&t=5525. Obviously I am not claiming that all wealthy individuals are a part of this effort. And it is true that many non-Jewish individuals have also been co-opted, to varying degrees. For example GD Birla, who was funding the Congress party, had a fairly close relationship with Winston Churchill. To mention another example, Mukesh Ambani is a member of the CFR. Obviously, not all those who have been co-opted would be aware of the big picture.

Incidentally, the Churchill family is quite interesting. John Churchill, the first Duke of Marlborough (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Churc ... Revolution) betrayed the English King James II at the time of the invasion, in 1688, by William III of Orange. William's invasion itself was sponsored by the Jewish banker Francisco Lopes Suasso. William III's victory led to the establishment, in 1694, of the Bank of England, with Jewish bankers from Amsterdam playing an important role. Interestingly, John Churchill was later paid 6000 pounds annually by the Jewish Merchant Solomon de Medina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_de_Medina), who had accompanied William III to England. Winston Churchill also has interesting connections from his mother's side, which I may elaborate upon sometime.

The CFR, of which Ambani is a member, is an affiliate of the RIIA, founded by Alfred Milner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Milner). Alfred Milner was active in the work of the Rhodes Trust. Cecil Rhodes' activities in Africa were funded by the Rothschilds.

So, there is a complex web of relationships, and we are just scratching the surface here.

That thread, therefore, does not give an historical "overview", but rather a very specific historical perspective which, at best, distracts us from addressing the reality that the US is now right next to us, armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons, that China (increasingly uneasy about the subtlety of Indian diplomacy) is doing the only thing that Communist regime knows best, bringing out a sledgehammer to a million undriven nails (good luck with that). That, in effect, may be the most important role of so-called CTs - to distract, misguide and confuse.

On the contrary, the information in that thread is important. For example, those who still believe that "Al Qaeda did 9/11" are rather poorly equipped to understand world events.

[Sanku]

quote>>"Murugan"

over the years Brazil has become the biggest exporter of Indian breeds of cows. Three importants breeds -- Gir, Kankrej and Ongole -- give more milk than Jersey and Holstein Friesian.

At a competiton held recently in Brazil, pure bred Gir cow clocked 48 litres of milk/day.If India had given the same importance to our local cattle instead of depending upon cross-breeding with exotic breeds, the land of holy cow would have made not only the domestic cattle economically viable but also ensured a significant shift towards the viability of farms and crop sustainability. Still I feel India can launch bilateral cooperation with Brazil to strengthen our own dairy industry and farming.

It was in the 1960s that Brazil imported three cattle breeds from India -- Gir and Kankrej from Gujarat, and Ongole from Andhra Pradesh. These were essentially imported for beefing up its meat exports. It was only when these breeds landed in Brazil that they found them to be also a good source for milk production. In a recent FAO publication on traditional knowledge, it has been observed that what was (and is still) considered a ‘waste’ in India, has turned out to be a great economic wealth for Brazil.

Brazil has in recent years emerged as the world’s biggest supplier of improved cattle embryos and semen of Indian origin – now rated amongst the best dairy breeds in the world. The demand for Indian breeds is particularly high from the African and Southeast Asian countries. Suitable for the tropical conditions, these countries find the improved cattle germplasm to be ideal for their cattle breeding programmes. If only Indian dairy and animal scientists had not ignored the domestic cattle breeds, the fate of the Indian cows would have been much different – these holy cows would have then been truly revered.

Believe it or not, the world’s best Gir cows today give 5500 litres of milk on an average per lactation. Compare these with the neglected cousin back home, which do not yield more than 980 litres, the Brazilian Gir yield roughly six times more. And that’s not the maximum limit, milk yields as high as 9000 litres per lactation have been recorded in Brazil. Imagine the Indian Gir breed giving that much of milk. The fate of the Indian cattle would have undergone a dramatic change for the better.

http://devinder-sharma.blogspot.com/201 ... ed-at.html

{Devinder sharma is a renowned agricultural scientist}

[muraliravi]

X-Posted from Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis Thread

Study shows that Muslims will conquer the world by 2050: SIOE (Stop Islamization of Europe)

United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) calculations show that the world population is rapidly increasing, having reached 6.9 billion in 2010 and will near 9.15 billion by 2050.

The world of the future will be crowded, impoverished, and Islamic.

The UNFPA data suggests that India’s population rose by 16 million, totaling 1.21 billion, this year and it is expected that the nation’s population will witness an increase of 400 million, reaching 1.61 billion and surpassing China, in 2050.

The sharp rise in India’s population will come from Muslims, who now constitute 14% of the country’s population. Muslim women in India display a much higher Total Fertility Rate (TFR) than Hindus. On average, the number of children born to Indian Muslim women is 4.1, for Indian Hindu women 2.9.

The TFR figures support the calculation that the Islamic population of India will reach 340 million within the next forty years.

Guys, how about shutting down your computers, going home and making love! I suggest a fertility rate of Laloo Prasad!

Seriously speaking,
we should stop this campaign for population control and free distribution of condoms etc. In the end not all communities really get the message! In fact the government should think of means and ways of supporting child birth amongst the Hindus!

In fact I propose a dedicated government program to give financial incentives support to the children of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes for their upliftment, as well as more medical support!

Another load of bull from UNFPA. Those figures on fertility rates are even more bull. 2001 census, TFR all india average was 2.72. Now our pop. growth overall has slowed down in the last decade even more and hence TFR would have dropped, I assume 2 steps away from replacement fertility rate. So a safe number would be between 2.4 and 2.5

So how on earth can hindus have a FR of 2.9 and muslims 4.1. Am I missing something unless India's infant mortality rates have quadrapuled in the last 2 decades. India's pop as expected will reach 1.6 bn by 2050, but it will stabilize there simply because, by that time definitely the TFR will reach 2.0 which is lower than replacement level fertility of 2.1

Now the other question on mullahs: india's tfr cant go down by a good extent if they keep having 4.1 and only hindus reduce. It is understoof that their FR are higher but these numbers are exagerrated to mainatin their agenda. A simple way (though not totally accurate way ) to measure their future stats in by looking at child pop (0-6 yrs age). Usually there is a laggard of 40 yrs. When in 61, their total pop % was around 10.7 approx their 0-6 pop was around 13.5 [differential of 2.8] That 13.5 matches to their total pop in 2001. So thats a 40 yr realization. Now in 2001. their pop was 13.4 and their child pop was 15.6%. Differential of 2.2 (which will decrease even more in future because their CHANGE in the RATE of GROWTH will be higher than hindus even though their FR's are still higher, meaning growth rates will be higher). So now if i pull this 15.6 and futher project it out, in 2041 or mid 2045 I am likely to see 15.6% as mullah pop and by that time or 10 yrs after that, i expect hardly any differential in the FR's of the 2 communities.

This is also in line with basic numbers, 13.4 in 2001, 14.0 in 2011. 14.5 in 2021, 15 and 15.5 or lower by 2041.

UNFPA will say 340/1610 which is 21.1% and i repeat that is bull and not in line. moreover current figures will already have BD's coming into india, but that number will only go down. The fencing is already showing good effect in the 2011 census in the border districts.

So i would take a chill pill. asking hindus to populate more will only destroy us with no food for people to live. We can manage a 16% final mullah pop rather than a 15% but a country with 2 bn people and not enuf resources.

[ramana]

Failure to locate heli crash site raises questions

The failure of Sukhoi-30, India’s multi-role military fighter aircraft for all weather and ISRO (India Space Research Organisation) in exact mapping of the crash site of Arunachal chief minister Dorjee Khandu’s helicopter in western Arunachal Pradesh raises security concerns about the state that shares border with China.

“If tomorrow the Chinese forces enter Arunachal Pradesh, how will our most potent aircraft hit the enemy positions correctly?” asked Bamang Tago, a state based RTI activist.

China has often claimed Arunachal Pradesh as its southern Tibet region.

Sukhoi-30 and ISRO’s mapping provided seven probable sites of the crash of the ill-fated helicopter. Two such sites were inside the territory of Bhutan. Naga GG in West Kameng district was identified as the most probable site.

But the wreckage of the helicopter carrying Khandu and four others, which went missing on Saturday, was found in Luguthang area in Tawang district on Wednesday. The place was not on the list of the probable sites.

A foot patrol party comprising village men finally located the wreckage of the helicopter and the bodies. Though the army and the Indo Tibetan Border Police Force are trained to move in mountainous terrain, both failed in covering the Luguthang area.

Gumjum Haider, secretary general of North East Students Organisation (NESO), said the failure of the IAF’s most advanced fighter aircraft Sukhoi, Army, ITBP and IRSO’s satellite services had exposed the true state of Indian security agencies.

“With such incapable forces, we are not safe. If tomorrow China attacks Arunchal Pradesh then we will be overrun by the Chinese army. The government of India will not do anything for the people here,” said Haider.

it might be good for the agencies to try to figure how & why they missed.

[Altair]

it might be good for the agencies to try to figure how & why they missed.

Its just like YSR case. helicopter deviated from its course and did not inform the atc. There are too many conflicting versions but the version which sticks out is it was not following protocol. These protocols were set up considering every possible scenario. Now I am puzzled why would two pilots carrying CM's not follow protocol? Please do not suggest they are incompetent!
I heard in some fiction of Tom Clancy type novels where a helicopter is fooled to believe that it was flying in the correct path but it deviated. Its like placing a magnet next to a compass, something like that. I cant remember but its technically possible. Losing two CM's in two years is rather weird.

[ramana]

Can we pursue the subject in the RIP Dorjee Khandu thread? I want some closure there for people who revere him.

Thanks, ramana

[RajeshA]

So i would take a chill pill. asking hindus to populate more will only destroy us with no food for people to live. We can manage a 16% final mullah pop rather than a 15% but a country with 2 bn people and not enuf resources.

The world is a big place. There are regions that would warm up due to global warming making themselves available for colonization and agriculture. There are countries in Europe, Russia, Japan and elsewhere where the populations are going to dive, and Indics, hardworking, with high levels of education, pluralist, capable of adjusting to Western culture, are ideal as additional support for the economies and cultural well-being. New sources of energy, recycling, sustainable development, and new technologies would ensure that new human beings on the planet are less of a burden on it! And someday, we will be moving on to other heavenly bodies anyway!

So my fellow Indics! Make more love and make more children! Let Lalu Prasad Yadav & Rabri Devi light your way!

[SwamyG]

Rony, The West is a hollow intellectual shell. A velagapandu after the elephant swallows it.
In order to perpetuate itself it needs to adopt and claim as its own whatever helps them survive and achieve dominance. They despise the current Greeks yet claim to be the heirs of the Ancient Greeks. They hate the Jews but steal Christianity. They even depict Jesus as Caucasian. They stole Enlightenment from India. And after post-Modernism, they need to steal Yoga the new age 'religion'.

So that is what is going on here.

Its the Ape in the movie "2001 Space Odyessy" facing the monolith/cul-de-sac of the mind.

Ramana garu:
An interesting point on post-modernism from a comment on HP:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-mal ... 61789.html
I know you closely follow the trends in contemporary mythology, comics, super-heroes and their need in Western society.

Thanks for for raising this important issue. I must take exception to your comment on post-moder­nity, however.

Your entire article is in fact, a re-stateme­nt of the post-moder­n approach applied specifical­ly to religion, yet you trivialize post-moder­nity as a "fashionab­le academic construct"­. On the contrary, post-moder­nism was an enormous evolutiona­ry leap in cultural understand­ing, upending the certaintie­s of the Modernist applecart. Modernism was in turn an enormous evolutiona­ry leap supplantin­g the Theocratic­/Mythic/Tr­aditionali­st world view, that had held sway for millenia before the Enlightenm­ent in the West.

Indeed, I believe the most useful way to discuss religion is NOT only to constrast the superficia­l difference­s types of religion, but also to illuminate the deep, structural Traditiona­l, Modern and Post-moder­n levels that can present themselves in all religions, assuming the borader cultural conditions necessary for their emergence exist.

All the major religions have, for example, deeply embedded patriarcha­l forms becasue all Mythic/Agr­arian civilizati­ons are patriarcha­l. With modernity in the west, the mythic aspects of Christiani­ty were no longer taken literally (except by the fundamenta­lists). The fact that mythic Christiani­ty does not square with the immensely compelling realities of the modern, rational, scientific world-view has lead to an unfortunat­e God-is-dea­d scientific materialis­m that runs rampant in the West. Post-moder­n perspectiv­es are expressed in the eclectic New-Age "spiritual­ity" that rejects the dominant narrative of Modernist Christiani­ty and includes elements from many cultures such as shamanism, paganism, Buddhism and Hinduism.

And here is Rajiv Malhotra's response

Janine,

The constructs of traditiona­l, modern, postmodern are themselves western-ce­ntric and I challenge their universali­ty in my book, "Audacity of Difference­." These constructs emerged out of the west's own peculiar and extraordin­ary history and the worldviews that resulted from it.

Indian civilizati­on includes the qualities of all three but not necessaril­y in the same opposition as in the west. It has been said that a dharmic civilizati­on is SIMULTANEO­USLY traditiona­l, modern and postmodern­.

I also explain a critical difference between western postmodern­ism and dharma - while both deconstruc­t the phenomenal­/experient­ial reality, western postmodern­ism lacks the yoga to actually embody this. Hence it is largely an intellectu­al exercise. The result is that dharma's POSITIVE YET BEYOND ESSENCES AND CATEGORIES STATE is unavailabl­e in western postmodern­ism. They lack the principle of Brahman that is beyond all concepts, ideas, linguistic categories­, etc, but is the embodied experience in advanced yogic states.

[Klaus]

Can we pursue the subject in the RIP Dorjee Khandu thread? I want some closure there for people who revere him.

Thanks, ramana

No closure sire! Dorjee Khandu will be re-incarnated to continue the work started by him in this life. The idea is out there and is more important than any mere individual.

[devesh]

So i would take a chill pill. asking hindus to populate more will only destroy us with no food for people to live. We can manage a 16% final mullah pop rather than a 15% but a country with 2 bn people and not enuf resources.

The world is a big place. There are regions that would warm up due to global warming making themselves available for colonization and agriculture. There are countries in Europe, Russia, Japan and elsewhere where the populations are going to dive, and Indics, hardworking, with high levels of education, pluralist, capable of adjusting to Western culture, are ideal as additional support for the economies and cultural well-being. New sources of energy, recycling, sustainable development, and new technologies would ensure that new human beings on the planet are less of a burden on it! And someday, we will be moving on to other heavenly bodies anyway!

So my fellow Indics! Make more love and make more children! Let Lalu Prasad Yadav & Rabri Devi light your way!

if Siberia becomes inhabitable due to Global Warming, there will be a 3-way struggle between Russia, China, and US. don't forget that US has a beachhead into Eurasia, and specifically Russia, in Alaska. if Siberian region becomes warm, very likely that Alaska will become warmer too. Alaska is a huge resource rich province, and that will be a huge boost to American power. but Nature always strikes a balance and if the northern extremes become warm, it is very possible that the Mississippi basin will become arid. to say the least, this has disastrous consequences for American power, unless equivalent or greater river systems start coming up in Northern extremes of North America, in which case, expect US to conquer, and colonize Canada permanently....

i think it's an extremely complex situation that might emerge because of changing Climate patterns. and ultimately, we should prepare for what's coming and try to adapt to that instead of shooting for nonsensical BS like Cap-and-Trade. this syndrome is heavy in the West, where the elite idiots actually believe that imposing draconian top-down dictatorship on entire countries is going to save the planet....

a more inhabitable Russian Far-East can have interesting consequences for China. if the mainland river systems in the Eastern heartland of China are not effected by Climate Change, then China can dominate the entire world quite easily, if it manages to colonize and expand Han population in Siberia. on the other hand, if there is a balancing act of Nature by making the Eastern heartland less fertile, then there might be a huge migration to the North from these regions. this is good for India. it opens up a huge region where native population is leaving from. of course this region in not fertile enough to establish our own colonies, but these areas could be "buffer zones" of Indic influence. we can export our way of life and belief systems to these regions, and they in turn can export them to their cousins in the North and East....

enough speculation, we should focus on solid scenarios. are there any solid models for Asia in the next 100-200 years that are reliable? if so, we need to start modelling them and examine the consequences for India. this could be an entirely separate thread because of the length and breadth of the topic and a wide area over which it can influence......

[Klaus]

^^^ What do you think the Kibbutz thread is for? As a system, it was used successfully to improve productivity of Negev from zero to full bloom!

[devesh]

^^^I was not aware there was a Kibbutz thread. But is that the appropriate place for discussing future climate scenarios for India?