A democracy has to believe that the only fate worse than being ruled by politicians is not being ruled by them. But even those who do esteem politicians focus on leaders; we shower praise on politicians who effectively sideline legislatures. In states, it would not be an exaggeration to say that we have almost a presidential form of government. Most state legislatures are in tatters. While this has made it easier for some chief ministers to govern in the short run, its consequences for democracy in the long run are not entirely clear.
Indian Interests
Re: Indian Interests
A battle for Parliament
Re: Indian Interests
[url=http://newsinsight.net\archivedebates\nat2.asp?recno=2111]Check the PM - Under Manmohan Singh, India risks becoming a US cheerleader in the UN Security Council, warns N.V.Subramanian.
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The present trouble is that Manmohan Singh is the weakest prime minister at a time when India is strongest since Independence. This contradiction is well-known and has been explained before.
For example, India's rise is strictly on account of its entrepreneurial genius, for which no government, least of all the UPA administration, can take credit. Indeed, corruption and uncontrolled inflation are denting this rise.
The Punjabi baley-baley-let-us-bhangra act would not move Pranab Mukherjee, for instance. But the Pakistan prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, succeeded with that and landed Manmohan Singh in a major foreign-policy embarrassment with their Sharm-el-Sheikh joint statement. To Manmohan Singh's ignominy, the Congress party dissociated from his statement.
Alongwith the Pakistanis, the Americans have realized Manmohan Singh's weakness for flattery. Apparently, the PM cannot get over his "indebtedness" to president Barack Obama for addressing Parliament, where he lectured India against trucking with the Burmese dictatorship, forgetting the shameful US record in the Middle East, where the chickens are coming home to roost.
For instance, defence circles are shocked and outraged in the manner American companies, especially Boeing, are squeezing the government for fighter-jet, military helicopter, howitzer and other deals. In some cases, pressure directly is coming from the PMO.
What specially worries this writer in the gamut of Indo-US relations are two areas: Pakistan and the UN Security Council. On Pakistan and particularly the Bombay-carnage investigations, the US is willing to sell Indian interests down the Indus.
According to press reports, in return for Raymond Davis, the US will give sovereign immunity to the ISI chief, Lieutenant-General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, in the New York trial initiated by relatives of victims of the Bombay carnage.
This is of a piece with scandalous US actions related to David Coleman Headley, the Lashkar-e-Toiba scout for the Bombay carnage.
Re: Indian Interests
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/03/ ... india.html
Jihad Has Come to India
( Congress has reduced India to next to nothing)
Posted by: N.S. Rajaram
Jihad Has Come to India
( Congress has reduced India to next to nothing)
And Comment by one of BRFitesJihad has come to India. The Obama administration and the State Department will tell you that it is nothing more than isolated acts by individuals. The government in New Delhi will say you are stirring up anti-Muslim sentiment. The mainstream media will ask how you can say that when we are hearing nothing about it from them. But it is real, and it is happening now. I have seen it first-hand. The Obama administration's studied denial will find us caught as flat-footed in India as we were in Lebanon, Egypt, Libya, and elsewhere. The difference is that India is an economic and military giant, with nuclear weapons, and could be a cornerstone of any effective fight against radical Islam.
have spent several years along India's 2545 mile-long frontier with Bangladesh, and have seen the impact Bangladesh's radicalization has had on its giant neighbor to the west. Amitabh Tripathi, who has been fighting against what he calls his country's "soft policies," noted that Bangladesh's Muslims "are not radicalized but their institutions are." That radicalization and a level of corruption on both sides of the border that makes my fellow Chicagoans look like amateurs has already produced demographic change in many strategic areas of India. It also has given Muslim activists carte blanche throughout the entire country. The process is deliberate, has been going on for decades, and should send us a screaming warning signal, not only because of what it bodes for India, but also because of what sort of future the Obama administration's soft policies and tolerance for an open border to our south mean for the United States.
Posted by: N.S. Rajaram
It is more than PC that is opening the avenues to Jihadis in India; it is the timidity and fear for personal safety of the influential Sonia Gandhi and her family. She is covertly pro-Islamist not out of conviction (she has none) but out of fear. I analyzed the phenomenon in a two-part article SONIA GANDHI'S RELUCTANT WAR ON TERROR carried by The American Thinker in 2005. Now Sonia Gandhi and her government have moved a step further by creating diversions in the name of 'Hindu Terrorism' to keep Islamists at bay. As Wikileaks has revealed, her son Rahul Gandhi even told the U.S. Ambassador that unnamed 'Hindu extremist outfits' are a greater threat to peace and security than Lashkar-E-Taiba, which is an offshoot of Al Qaeda. In effect he was lobbying the U.S. Ambassador in favor of Islamist outfits.
Re: Indian Interests
How can one fight/defeat an enemy if one does not even have the balls to name him as such ? How much more damage can this accursed dynasty do to mother India? Only the illiterate cretins who make up the majority of India's electorate can answer that question. I had already partially read that article before it was posted here but I couldn't finish it because it depressed me too much.
In the name of votes the dynasty is willing to alter the demographics of the Northeast through illegal immigration. How much longer till partition part II ?
In the name of votes the dynasty is willing to alter the demographics of the Northeast through illegal immigration. How much longer till partition part II ?
Re: Indian Interests
Nice article...comments too are nice....but who cares....If we in Hyderabad are lucky, few Muslim names for my great grand children are already ringing in my head. {helpless laughing }
Re: Indian Interests
Can somebody remember anything good he did?vipins wrote:Arjun Singh Dead
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Re: Indian Interests
He was the only guy in previous cabinet from whom everyone in INC and PMO were genuinely scared of. He moderated the flights of fancy of our philosopher king who is in a hurry to win Nobel if not for those nuisance mongers in opposition. His role in reservations fiasco notwithstanding he was one of the old guard kangressis from Sanjay brigade who had some mass following. His role as Punjab governor in 1985 when the entire state was on the boil was also a very brave act of hisRajeshA wrote:Can somebody remember anything good he did?vipins wrote:Arjun Singh Dead
Re: Indian Interests
hardly a loss to the nationvipins wrote:Arjun Singh Dead
Re: Indian Interests
lets leave him to his karma.. Sonia ain't there in Naraklok..I feel sorry for him.
Re: Indian Interests
he's paving the way for Sonia...
Re: Indian Interests
Sir, how could you ask such a horrible question. Our epitome of secularism, the Hindu will testify for his greatness as its flowery obituary shows:RajeshA wrote:Can somebody remember anything good he did?vipins wrote:Arjun Singh Dead
Till the end, Arjun Singh was in socialist-secular mould
Another important quality ( bolded):But his stints at the Centre were troubled. Returning to the Union Cabinet as Human Resource Development Minister in 2004, he repeatedly ran into opposition — first for setting out to de-saffronise the education system and then for proposing reservation for the Other Backward Classes (OBC) in higher education. He refused to allow foreign universities to enter the country and wanted the IITs and IIMs to toe his line on fee structuring.
Under Mr. Singh's supervision, the National Council of Educational Research and Training transformed from an ideologically compromised body to a professionally run institution. He saw OBC reservation through despite many challenges.
The veteran — who in 1992 was elected to the Congress Working Committee (CWC) with the highest margin of votes — would have likely been doubly hurt had he known that the restructuring of the CWC was helmed by Sonia Gandhi. For, right through his life, Mr. Singh remained a loyalist of the Nehru-Gandhi clan.
Last edited by sum on 05 Mar 2011 21:32, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Interests
Arjun Singh knew how to use the situation to good effect. He was the one who made Sonia Gandhi take a dip in the Sangam in the 2001 Kumbh so that Sonia could project a sarva-dharma image. The loyal friend Madahavrao Scindia did not want her to do so. To cut him short, Arjun Singh whipped up Digvijay Singh to manufacture an atmosphere of consent over the Kumbh snan.
Half-Dip For The Soul
The same Digvijay Singh, now a lone-ranger from the club of 3, is now bent on making everyone take a dip in the proverbial Zamzam well. From projecting a soft-Hindu, pro-minority vote bank stand of the 80s, the INC has come down to an anti-Hindu stand. As for the three distinguished leaders, none of these scions of Madhya Pradesh had any interest in development of Muslims at any time, other than paying lip service and as demonstrated by the Bhopal gas tragedy. Note bank >> vote bank.
Half-Dip For The Soul
Sonia's soft saffron play at the Kumbh uplifts party spirits, as it signals the arrival of a new, confident political actor
Magazine | Feb 05, 2001
The same Digvijay Singh, now a lone-ranger from the club of 3, is now bent on making everyone take a dip in the proverbial Zamzam well. From projecting a soft-Hindu, pro-minority vote bank stand of the 80s, the INC has come down to an anti-Hindu stand. As for the three distinguished leaders, none of these scions of Madhya Pradesh had any interest in development of Muslims at any time, other than paying lip service and as demonstrated by the Bhopal gas tragedy. Note bank >> vote bank.
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Re: Indian Interests
Actually all these Digvijay Singh , Arjun Singh hail from princely states that survived at the mercy of British by licking their boots, this long period of boot licking and sycophancy gave birth to such gems who continued with their rich family tradition by serving the Nehru-Gandhi clan.
Re: Indian Interests
Curse of Bhopal gas victims will not let his soul R.I.P....so hell with Arjun..I don't know what his death has anything to do with Indian Interests....
A day old article...which ought to be here....posting in full
“Public administration has fallen prey to corruption”
A day old article...which ought to be here....posting in full
“Public administration has fallen prey to corruption”
In a rare instance, 83 former bureaucrats including retired Chief Election Commissioners, retired police officers, a former Governor, retired diplomats and retired Chief Secretaries have come together and moved the Supreme Court seeking implementation of the recommendations on administrative reforms.
A Bench of Justices Dalveer Bhandari and Deepak Verma issued notice, acting on a writ petition filed by the former Cabinet Secretary T.S.R. Subramanian; the former CECs, T.S. Krishnamurthy and N. Gopalaswami; the former Ambassador to the U.S., Abid Hussain; the former CBI Director, Joginder Singh; the former Manipur Governor, Ved Prakash Marwah; and 77 others.
Further hearing is posted to April 4.
The petitioners said weak governance manifesting itself in poor service delivery, excessive regulation, whimsical interventions for personal benefit, uncoordinated and wasteful public expenditure, inadequate transparency and lack of accountability reduced the effectiveness of government policies and impinged adversely on growth and development.
Lack of good governance affected the quality of life and violated the guarantees provided under Article 21 (right to life and liberty) of the Constitution.
The space for arbitrariness in governmental action had an impact on the functioning of the bureaucracy.
The petitioners pointed out that public administration had been compromised by corruption. There was an urgent need to depoliticise transfers, postings, inquiries, and the process of promotion, reward, punishment and disciplinary matters relating to civil servants.
Reports gathering dust
Since Independence, the Government of India had set up about 50 commissions and committees to study and make recommendations on administrative reforms, while various other studies were also conducted by State governments.
But these recommendations were not implemented. Implementation of the various administrative and civil service reforms would remedy these shortcomings and dramatically improve the impact of economic and social development programmes, the petitioners said.
Preservation of the integrity, fearlessness and independence of civil servants was an essential condition of the parliamentary system. {ahaa will I ever see this thrive in India in this life}While formulation of government policy was the task of the Minister, the civil servant was expected to advise him/her freely and frankly. The Minister should not interfere in service matters such as postings and transfers.
The petitioners sought a direction for constitution of an independent Civil Service Board or Commission both at the Centre and in the States to regulate transfers and promotions transparently, and to fix a minimum tenure ranging from 3-5 years depending on the seniority of the post.
To ensure probity and accountability it should be made incumbent on every civil servant to formally record all instructions/orders/directions/suggestions he or she received from Ministers or superiors on discharge of official functions.
Re: Indian Interests
aroy at it again
Some highlights from the article
Some highlights from the article
Author Arundhati Roy has again created controversy by attending a function where the National Emblem was put to disrespect. According to reports, the Maoist sympathiser attended a function organised by the banned Democratic Students’ Union at Jawaharlal Nehru University campus on Saturday night, where pamphlets showing Lion Capital (the National Emblem) as part of a shoe’s sole were distributed.
The same organisation is known to have carried out macabre celebrations at the JNU campus about six months ago when 75 odd CRPF jawans were killed by Maoists in Chhattisgarh.
Roy had earlier given an anti-national hate speech at the LTG auditorium near Mandi House on October 21, 2010, saying, “Jhootha nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan.” Police registered sedition charges against her only after the court’s intervention.
Re: Indian Interests
Basically he reinstated Romila Thapar's version of History which was correctly questioned and removed from NCERT syllabus.sum wrote:Arjun Singh Dead
Can somebody remember anything good he did?
Sir, how could you ask such a horrible question. Our epitome of secularism, the Hindu will testify for his greatness as its flowery obituary shows:
Till the end, Arjun Singh was in socialist-secular mould
Under Mr. Singh's supervision, the National Council of Educational Research and Training transformed from an ideologically compromised body to a professionally run institution. Another important quality ( bolded):
Re: Indian Interests
who the phuk are these students? are they from proper families? or are they misguided orphans? what happened to their childhood feelings when they sang "Jana Gana Mana" everyday morning in school? children from Mumbai slums wave Tricolors on "I" and "R" day with invaluable smiles ....if they are not happy with capitalist politicians...join services or politics and teach them a lesson.....these scum varieties are even worse than "rednecks" and "niggahs" who have Hindu Gods' pictures on their pants, slippers and commode pads...rkirankr wrote:aroy at it again
Some highlights from the articleAuthor Arundhati Roy has again created controversy by attending a function where the National Emblem was put to disrespect. According to reports, the Maoist sympathiser attended a function organised by the banned Democratic Students’ Union at Jawaharlal Nehru University campus on Saturday night, where pamphlets showing Lion Capital (the National Emblem) as part of a shoe’s sole were distributed.
The same organisation is known to have carried out macabre celebrations at the JNU campus about six months ago when 75 odd CRPF jawans were killed by Maoists in Chhattisgarh.Roy had earlier given an anti-national hate speech at the LTG auditorium near Mandi House on October 21, 2010, saying, “Jhootha nanga Hindustan, jaan se pyara Pakistan.” Police registered sedition charges against her only after the court’s intervention.
Every university should check the national mindset of incumbents before enrolling them...this news tastes bitter to me...
Added Later:
ARoy is treading a dangerous path here....when Nathuram managed to kill Gandhiji because he got India divided....this b!tch will be a sure target for her anti-India stance....some such soul will get her soon...
Re: Indian Interests
From Hindu Civilization Yahoo Group
Binayak Sen, Paul Harrison award and Christian Medical College in Vellore
The prestigious Paul Harrison award was given to Binayak Sen in 2004. This award is given annually by the Christian Medical College in Vellore, India to its alumni.
But who was "Paul Harrison"? What is the criteria of the award? Who are past winners of this award? Unfortunately the CMC Vellore site does not have a list of the past winners.
Who was Paul Harrison, after who the award is naed? Answer: "A renowned medical missionary"
"Jacob Chandy, WHO passed away in 2007 at the age of 97, was born into a deeply religious Christian family in Kerala, South India. After obtaining his medical education at the Madras Medical College, Madras, he serendipitously came to work with Dr Paul Harrison, Jacob Chandy, WHO passed away in 2007 at the age of 97, was born into a deeply religious Christian family in Kerala, South India. After
obtaining his medical education at the Madras Medical College, Madras, he serendipitously came to work with Dr Paul Harrison, a renowned medical missionary, in the Gulf state of Bahrain. in the Gulf state of Bahrain."
http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/20647965
What is the criterion for the award? Here are some of the award winners.
- 1984: "Dr. Lall, surgeon and former Director of the Christian Hospital in Taxila … Drs. Ernest and Pramila Lall were awarded the Paul Harrison prize by CMC in 1984, for their challenging demonstration of effective Christian medical service."
http://www.cmch- vellore.edu/ LinkClick. aspx?link= 329&tabid= 101
- 2009: "The Paul Harrison Award for Meritorious Service in Rural Areas (an award given to a distinguished alumnus of the CMC for meritorious service in the area of health care to the neglected) was given to Chongthu Biakmawia, former director of the Durtlang Presbyterian Hospital, run by the Presbyterian Church
in Durtlang, Mizoram."
"The most prestigious award of the institution, the Paul Harrison Award for Meritorious Service, was given to Dr. Chongthu Baikmawia of the batch of 1964. .. He was also active in setting up primary, middle and high schools and a technical university in Mizoram. Dr. Biakmawia has lived an exemplary life as modern day missionary doctor."
http://www.cmch- vellore.edu/ pdf/weeklynews/ 2009/november/ 20091123. pdf
- 1972: "SILVERA, SHRI C. ..Profession: Medical Practitioner, Political and Social Worker, Agriculturist and Religious Missionary … got the 'Paul Harrison Award', 1972 `from the Christian Medical College, Vellore in recognition of the service in rural areas of Mizoram"
http://www.indiapre ss.org/election/ archives/ lok11/biodata/ 11mz01.php
- 1966: Dr.Rajanikant Arole …962 – 1966 : Medical Suptd. : FJFM Hospital, Vadala Mission District Ahmednagar, India…1966 : Paul Harrison Award for outstanding work in Rural areas. …1972: "Community Health in Asia - Role of Health In the Development of Nations." Ecumenical Christian Conference, Bangkok
http://www.pravara. com/rajanikantar ole.html
- 1988: Stephen B. Hansdak: "He was a `Hidden Gem' that was produced by the vision of Dr. Ida and the grace of the Lord. … Stephen was born on July 17, 1931
to a Santal family in the village of Dumaria in Jharkand. … Stephen was a third generation Christian in that region. They took shelter in the home of the Missionary at the Santal Mission. There they became Christians. Palu went on to become a Pastor. …Stephen received the Paul Harrison award in 1988."
http://www.vellorec mc.org/Gems% 20of%20Vellore/ Stephen%20Hansda k.htm
- 1959: DR JEYABLAN, SUPERINTENDENT OF ST LUKE'S ..Every year the Paul
Harrison Award is bestowed upon an alumnus of Christian Medical College, Vellore who has made an outstanding contribution to the health and welfare of people in need. Dr. G.M. Jeyabalan of the batch 1959 was given this award for the year 2002. …After his training, he joined the St.Luke's Leprosarium at Peikulam in 1967 and has served there continuously for the past 35 years.
http://www.neemtree trust.org. uk/stlukes/ dr-jeyablan. htm
- 2008: "We have invited Dr Johnny Oommen (batch of 1979-80) and his wife Mercy as chief guests for the GOTC. Johnny, as most of you know him as, has done exceptional work in Orissa among the adivasis and was awarded the Paul Harrison award in 2008" "
http://velloregotc. com/index. php?option= com_content& view=article& id=57&Itemid= 86
"The people in the Bissamcuttack Block are predominantly from the Adivasi community (62%) and the Dalit community (17%). The Christian Hospital in Bissamcuttack (CHB) was started by a Danish missionary, Dr Lis Madsen, in 1954."
http://velloregotc. com/index. php?option= com_content& view=article& id=48&Itemid= 58
What should we conclude? The award is given to those who fulfill the mission statement of CMC Vallore which is
"..developing health professionals who can effectively communicate the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and .."
Binayak Sen, Paul Harrison award and Christian Medical College in Vellore
The prestigious Paul Harrison award was given to Binayak Sen in 2004. This award is given annually by the Christian Medical College in Vellore, India to its alumni.
But who was "Paul Harrison"? What is the criteria of the award? Who are past winners of this award? Unfortunately the CMC Vellore site does not have a list of the past winners.
Who was Paul Harrison, after who the award is naed? Answer: "A renowned medical missionary"
"Jacob Chandy, WHO passed away in 2007 at the age of 97, was born into a deeply religious Christian family in Kerala, South India. After obtaining his medical education at the Madras Medical College, Madras, he serendipitously came to work with Dr Paul Harrison, Jacob Chandy, WHO passed away in 2007 at the age of 97, was born into a deeply religious Christian family in Kerala, South India. After
obtaining his medical education at the Madras Medical College, Madras, he serendipitously came to work with Dr Paul Harrison, a renowned medical missionary, in the Gulf state of Bahrain. in the Gulf state of Bahrain."
http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/20647965
What is the criterion for the award? Here are some of the award winners.
- 1984: "Dr. Lall, surgeon and former Director of the Christian Hospital in Taxila … Drs. Ernest and Pramila Lall were awarded the Paul Harrison prize by CMC in 1984, for their challenging demonstration of effective Christian medical service."
http://www.cmch- vellore.edu/ LinkClick. aspx?link= 329&tabid= 101
- 2009: "The Paul Harrison Award for Meritorious Service in Rural Areas (an award given to a distinguished alumnus of the CMC for meritorious service in the area of health care to the neglected) was given to Chongthu Biakmawia, former director of the Durtlang Presbyterian Hospital, run by the Presbyterian Church
in Durtlang, Mizoram."
"The most prestigious award of the institution, the Paul Harrison Award for Meritorious Service, was given to Dr. Chongthu Baikmawia of the batch of 1964. .. He was also active in setting up primary, middle and high schools and a technical university in Mizoram. Dr. Biakmawia has lived an exemplary life as modern day missionary doctor."
http://www.cmch- vellore.edu/ pdf/weeklynews/ 2009/november/ 20091123. pdf
- 1972: "SILVERA, SHRI C. ..Profession: Medical Practitioner, Political and Social Worker, Agriculturist and Religious Missionary … got the 'Paul Harrison Award', 1972 `from the Christian Medical College, Vellore in recognition of the service in rural areas of Mizoram"
http://www.indiapre ss.org/election/ archives/ lok11/biodata/ 11mz01.php
- 1966: Dr.Rajanikant Arole …962 – 1966 : Medical Suptd. : FJFM Hospital, Vadala Mission District Ahmednagar, India…1966 : Paul Harrison Award for outstanding work in Rural areas. …1972: "Community Health in Asia - Role of Health In the Development of Nations." Ecumenical Christian Conference, Bangkok
http://www.pravara. com/rajanikantar ole.html
- 1988: Stephen B. Hansdak: "He was a `Hidden Gem' that was produced by the vision of Dr. Ida and the grace of the Lord. … Stephen was born on July 17, 1931
to a Santal family in the village of Dumaria in Jharkand. … Stephen was a third generation Christian in that region. They took shelter in the home of the Missionary at the Santal Mission. There they became Christians. Palu went on to become a Pastor. …Stephen received the Paul Harrison award in 1988."
http://www.vellorec mc.org/Gems% 20of%20Vellore/ Stephen%20Hansda k.htm
- 1959: DR JEYABLAN, SUPERINTENDENT OF ST LUKE'S ..Every year the Paul
Harrison Award is bestowed upon an alumnus of Christian Medical College, Vellore who has made an outstanding contribution to the health and welfare of people in need. Dr. G.M. Jeyabalan of the batch 1959 was given this award for the year 2002. …After his training, he joined the St.Luke's Leprosarium at Peikulam in 1967 and has served there continuously for the past 35 years.
http://www.neemtree trust.org. uk/stlukes/ dr-jeyablan. htm
- 2008: "We have invited Dr Johnny Oommen (batch of 1979-80) and his wife Mercy as chief guests for the GOTC. Johnny, as most of you know him as, has done exceptional work in Orissa among the adivasis and was awarded the Paul Harrison award in 2008" "
http://velloregotc. com/index. php?option= com_content& view=article& id=57&Itemid= 86
"The people in the Bissamcuttack Block are predominantly from the Adivasi community (62%) and the Dalit community (17%). The Christian Hospital in Bissamcuttack (CHB) was started by a Danish missionary, Dr Lis Madsen, in 1954."
http://velloregotc. com/index. php?option= com_content& view=article& id=48&Itemid= 58
What should we conclude? The award is given to those who fulfill the mission statement of CMC Vallore which is
"..developing health professionals who can effectively communicate the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and .."
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Re: Indian Interests
If anyone tries that on AR, it will simply make her an icon. So it is necessary to discourage any such attempt or thinking. DSU leadership is sourced from certain factions within a very specific part of the communist spectrum in India and mostly came originally from WB and Andhra. They are typically "forward castes". At one time there was some admixture from the Trotskytes but cleaned up.Venkarl wrote:
who the phuk are these students? are they from proper families? or are they misguided orphans? what happened to their childhood feelings when they sang "Jana Gana Mana" everyday morning in school? children from Mumbai slums wave Tricolors on "I" and "R" day with invaluable smiles ....if they are not happy with capitalist politicians...join services or politics and teach them a lesson.....these scum varieties are even worse than "rednecks" and "niggahs" who have Hindu Gods' pictures on their pants, slippers and commode pads...
Every university should check the national mindset of incumbents before enrolling them...this news tastes bitter to me...
Added Later:
ARoy is treading a dangerous path here....when Nathuram managed to kill Gandhiji because he got India divided....this b!tch will be a sure target for her anti-India stance....some such soul will get her soon...
It would be interesting to see why AR gets connected repeatedly to them, and why AR gets so much leeway from Congress. The DSU group is part of an umbrella front of different student fronts floated by the various usual suspects (consider fro example the "Backward Students Forum"). The Chrisrian connection could be worthwhile to look at. Don;t be fooled by the use of the 1940's Maoist ideological charade of "New Democracy" as a label they use. "New Democracy" was a "class collaborationist" line forwarded temporarily for the specific soup that the Maoists found themselves in at that time. It has never really been applicable intact outside of that period and out of China. So its use typically implies a kind pretension of tactical flexibility - and an appeal for "broad" based mobilizations.
These people are in it for what they hope is an alternative shortcut to absolute rashtryia power - and for themselves. They are being used by imperialists - whom they roundly curse formally - and imperialist religious interests. This is how they should be seen, and clearly understood.
Re: Indian Interests
>>If anyone tries that on AR, it will simply make her an icon. So it is necessary to discourage any such attempt or thinking.
Absolutely. She must go by the "Arafat model" - i.e discredited by own actions, undermined by own positions, and ultimately rendered little more than hot air. She is well on her way there... She is now unlikely to get into any external speaking engagement apart from those institutions that are heavily compromised "ideologically". Internally, she is subject to heavy and easy criticism, even ridicule - given the patently nonsensical positions she takes.
She must be eventually reduced to prancing about in leopard-skin leotards to gain attention, as she once did in the past
Or return to writing fiction identified clearly as fiction, not fiction posing as non-fiction.
It's her call.
Absolutely. She must go by the "Arafat model" - i.e discredited by own actions, undermined by own positions, and ultimately rendered little more than hot air. She is well on her way there... She is now unlikely to get into any external speaking engagement apart from those institutions that are heavily compromised "ideologically". Internally, she is subject to heavy and easy criticism, even ridicule - given the patently nonsensical positions she takes.
She must be eventually reduced to prancing about in leopard-skin leotards to gain attention, as she once did in the past
Or return to writing fiction identified clearly as fiction, not fiction posing as non-fiction.
It's her call.
Re: Indian Interests
And this came from where exactly?Rony wrote:What should we conclude? The award is given to those who fulfill the mission statement of CMC Vallore which is
"..developing health professionals who can effectively communicate the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and .."
Here is the mission statement of CMC, Vellore - where is the above statement tucked in there?
http://www.cmch-vellore.edu/MissionStat ... fault.aspx
I am sure a lot of people here got educated in christian institutions...In many cities in India, surely in Calcutta where I grew up, missionary schools are/were the best schools available....I didnt find a single instance of anyone in school trying to "convert" me, or any of my classmates, most of whom were hindus...Generations of hindus have passed out of these schools - is there any evidence of proselytisation attempts? If there are, they surely havent been passed on to the current generation of parents, who are trying ever so hard for admission of their wards to these very schools!
And CMC, Vellore?!! It is one of the most sought after medical schools in the country (perhaps second only to AIIMS), and one of the most frequented for affordable medical care...the Coromondal Express from Calcutta is called the "hospital expres" because of the number pf patients it carries going for treatment to Vellore!
Where do these "Hindu Civilization Yahoo Group" chaps get educated?
Re: Indian Interests
Kindly see the following page that you missedsomnath wrote:And this came from where exactly?Rony wrote:What should we conclude? The award is given to those who fulfill the mission statement of CMC Vallore which is
"..developing health professionals who can effectively communicate the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and .."
Here is the mission statement of CMC, Vellore - where is the above statement tucked in there?
http://www.cmch-vellore.edu/MissionStat ... fault.aspx
Where do these "Hindu Civilization Yahoo Group" chaps get educated?
http://www.cmch-vellore.edu/misc/missio ... ission.htm
Let me quote what is written on that page :-
Hence I don't see any problem with those chaps education... you OTOH need to learn how to use Google.Vision & Mission
VISION STATEMENT
The Missions office of CMC, Vellore seeks to equip health professionals and institutions to be an effective witness for the Lord Jesus Christ in the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20) and in the healing ministry.
MISSION STATEMENT
The Missions office CMC, Vellore works towards the transformation of the institutions by developing health professionals who can effectively communicate the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and can administer excellent health care.
Sirji, considering how you failed to do a simple google search and/or look at the Vision/Mission page.. no offense but am of opinion that you are not very equipped to notice proselytisation attempts..somnath wrote:I am sure a lot of people here got educated in christian institutions...In many cities in India, surely in Calcutta where I grew up, missionary schools are/were the best schools available....I didnt find a single instance of anyone in school trying to "convert" me, or any of my classmates, most of whom were hindus...Generations of hindus have passed out of these schools - is there any evidence of proselytisation attempts? If there are, they surely havent been passed on to the current generation of parents, who are trying ever so hard for admission of their wards to these very schools!
But having studied at such school(s), I too failed to notice anything.. but that was because I was a kid. But now I don't doubt their Vision and Mission, because only recently I realized that what we as kids were made to sing as prayers.. were Christian Prayers. If that isn't proselytisation then what is ?
May be this :-
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/mixed-views- ... 392-3.html
Last edited by anmol on 08 Mar 2011 16:26, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Interests
And regarding ARoy.....I completely agree with Bji and JEMji.....but somebody might take her out...the more she throws up, the nearer that somebody will get
Re: Indian Interests
Somnath,
>>I am sure a lot of people here got educated in christian institutions...In many cities in India, surely in Calcutta where I grew up, missionary schools are/were the best schools available....I didnt find a single instance of anyone in school trying to "convert" me, or any of my classmates, most of whom were hindus...
I think this varies from case to case. My sister and I went to a boarding school with missionary leanings. Attempts at conversion were sustained and well-structured. We were obliged to attend Sunday mass and make a weekly contribution. That is every single student, Hindus and Christians. Muslims had an exemption as I recall, but only in some cases - now am not sure why. We had preachers (soft evangelical I would say, not the aggressive evangelism of the US type) come over from various countries (Australia in particular) every now and then and really give attractive sermons. I remember enjoying them as a kid. Some Hindus switched to Christianity (at least the superficial aspects of worship, wearing crosses, bible under pillow, etc - and then switched right back). Of course most of us caught on pretty quickly, and deployed various strategies to utilise these opportunities to chase chix (yes it was a co-ed boarding school). A few of us excelled at this pursuit. I was even in the Choir as a result - singing tenor at first, and then bass after my voice broke. There were other schools, very similar in structure nearby - some full of foreigners - i.e. the majority (Hebrons & Kodai) being two of them. These often had "sister" schools - for example Woodstock, Mussoorie.
This is in late 70s to 84. At least in my school, an outstanding school which I do not diss in any way, things have not changed as far as I know.
>>I am sure a lot of people here got educated in christian institutions...In many cities in India, surely in Calcutta where I grew up, missionary schools are/were the best schools available....I didnt find a single instance of anyone in school trying to "convert" me, or any of my classmates, most of whom were hindus...
I think this varies from case to case. My sister and I went to a boarding school with missionary leanings. Attempts at conversion were sustained and well-structured. We were obliged to attend Sunday mass and make a weekly contribution. That is every single student, Hindus and Christians. Muslims had an exemption as I recall, but only in some cases - now am not sure why. We had preachers (soft evangelical I would say, not the aggressive evangelism of the US type) come over from various countries (Australia in particular) every now and then and really give attractive sermons. I remember enjoying them as a kid. Some Hindus switched to Christianity (at least the superficial aspects of worship, wearing crosses, bible under pillow, etc - and then switched right back). Of course most of us caught on pretty quickly, and deployed various strategies to utilise these opportunities to chase chix (yes it was a co-ed boarding school). A few of us excelled at this pursuit. I was even in the Choir as a result - singing tenor at first, and then bass after my voice broke. There were other schools, very similar in structure nearby - some full of foreigners - i.e. the majority (Hebrons & Kodai) being two of them. These often had "sister" schools - for example Woodstock, Mussoorie.
This is in late 70s to 84. At least in my school, an outstanding school which I do not diss in any way, things have not changed as far as I know.
Re: Indian Interests
Boss, I went to a male only convent school, I was failed in English in Std V in the quarterly exam when I failed to raise my hand when the teacher asked "do you belive in Jesus", I learnt my lesson for Half yearly and Finals.
Go to loyola College in Chennai and you will be openly told, are you a Christian? Are you an SC? then no seat for you.
Go to loyola College in Chennai and you will be openly told, are you a Christian? Are you an SC? then no seat for you.
Re: Indian Interests
In a school affiliated to a particular denomination of an Abrahamic religion, direct or overt proselytisation may or may not occur. However, the thought process of an individual is channelized towards the beliefs of a particular Abrahamic religion. In such schools, students constantly absorb images of the Abrahamic way of life. When these students, who are at an impressionable age, transfer those images to Indian memes, they find a disconnect between what they see in their schools and what they see beyond the schools.
As an example, many absorb the “white and pure” celibate image of the priests in their institutions. While the same “white and pure” may be indulging in certain unmentionable acts, the students associate this image as “chaste”. In the Dharmik way of life, teachers, gurus and rishis can be married, yet they are fully entrusted with the responsibility of leading students towards knowledge. As a particular saying in Sanskrit goes, if men and women don’t marry, how would sages be born!
The students who have absorbed the “white and pure” image then seem to be at a disconnect with the married status of the teachers, gurus and rishis, often “mocking” them for being “involved in worldly” matters. Thus, the Abrahamic way of image projection has implanted an element of suspicion in the minds of the students. This is one example of “conversion in the mind”.
Similarly Abrahamic ways of life with their views of “good/sins”, “heaven/hell”, “god/evil” insert their binary nature in multiple things, leading the students to explore only two stages of the mind – ON/OFF. In the ON state, they accept the images without any questions and are then mentally converted to the said way of life in the mind. Thus, children tend to associate Christmas as calm and celebration-worthy but Deepavali as noisy and polluting, Easter as fun and Holi as disgusting. The same then tend to “question” others’ education, indulge in intellectual masturbat!on and assume a missionary position, forgetting that the thoughts which they are ejecting is weakening their own intellect.
When a person is long exposed to such a thought process at a young age, his ability to understand things as they are, goes for a toss. If in time, a mass of people do not come out the ON/OFF thought process, the Macaulay gotra takes shape.
Then, to come out of it, a person or society has to un-learn binary ways and then initiate the natural learning process.
As an example, many absorb the “white and pure” celibate image of the priests in their institutions. While the same “white and pure” may be indulging in certain unmentionable acts, the students associate this image as “chaste”. In the Dharmik way of life, teachers, gurus and rishis can be married, yet they are fully entrusted with the responsibility of leading students towards knowledge. As a particular saying in Sanskrit goes, if men and women don’t marry, how would sages be born!
The students who have absorbed the “white and pure” image then seem to be at a disconnect with the married status of the teachers, gurus and rishis, often “mocking” them for being “involved in worldly” matters. Thus, the Abrahamic way of image projection has implanted an element of suspicion in the minds of the students. This is one example of “conversion in the mind”.
Similarly Abrahamic ways of life with their views of “good/sins”, “heaven/hell”, “god/evil” insert their binary nature in multiple things, leading the students to explore only two stages of the mind – ON/OFF. In the ON state, they accept the images without any questions and are then mentally converted to the said way of life in the mind. Thus, children tend to associate Christmas as calm and celebration-worthy but Deepavali as noisy and polluting, Easter as fun and Holi as disgusting. The same then tend to “question” others’ education, indulge in intellectual masturbat!on and assume a missionary position, forgetting that the thoughts which they are ejecting is weakening their own intellect.
When a person is long exposed to such a thought process at a young age, his ability to understand things as they are, goes for a toss. If in time, a mass of people do not come out the ON/OFF thought process, the Macaulay gotra takes shape.
Then, to come out of it, a person or society has to un-learn binary ways and then initiate the natural learning process.
Re: Indian Interests
^+1 to you AjayKK sir
I have a few cousins(girls) who went to uber tfta convent schools. One even said her mother tongue is english.
The brain washing is so subtle. Invariably all hindu festivals were superstitious but no word about abrahmic ones. Bindi and bangles were actively discouraged in the name of discipline and uniformity.
The cousins have changed to a large extent after marriage to households which are sanathan dharmic. They also spent 7 to 8 years in professional courses such as medicine in purely Hindu run institutions after school. These long gap from brainwashing may also have contributed in the detoxification.
I have a few cousins(girls) who went to uber tfta convent schools. One even said her mother tongue is english.
The brain washing is so subtle. Invariably all hindu festivals were superstitious but no word about abrahmic ones. Bindi and bangles were actively discouraged in the name of discipline and uniformity.
The cousins have changed to a large extent after marriage to households which are sanathan dharmic. They also spent 7 to 8 years in professional courses such as medicine in purely Hindu run institutions after school. These long gap from brainwashing may also have contributed in the detoxification.
Re: Indian Interests
Neat, so the vision and mission statement of the "missions office" of CMC becomes the mission and vision of CMC itself! At least two of my school chums went to CMC - one for undergrad and other for post grad - never heard of a proselytising mission there...I will try and re-establish contact with either of them and find out about the "missions office"...anmol wrote: Quote:
Vision & Mission
VISION STATEMENT
The Missions office of CMC, Vellore seeks to equip health professionals and institutions to be an effective witness for the Lord Jesus Christ in the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20) and in the healing ministry.
MISSION STATEMENT
The Missions office CMC, Vellore works towards the transformation of the institutions by developing health professionals who can effectively communicate the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and can administer excellent health care.
Hence I don't see any problem with those chaps education... you OTOH need to learn how to use Google.
But that is purely anecdotal...Systemically, it must be curious that parents in Calcutta (to a limited extent Delhi as well) try to put their wards in these proselytising schools! ...Given that they are all out of convert through subtle means...And many of the parents themselves are alumni........Maybe they too need training in efficient "Google usage"!
Given that a few generation of hindu upper caste "elites" have been educated in these institutions and remained hindus, even if these guys are trying something, its got to be massively ineffective, no?
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Re: Indian Interests
The home environment is crucial. If the children are simultaneously exposed to and encouraged to explore knowledge base - of history and religion, on their own, and supported in their own free and intensive explorations - a lot of the things could be cleared up right at the beginning.
I find all the above discussions quite interesting. Because it reminds me of my own peculiar experiences. I was enrolled consecutively into two "missionary" schools, one from 2-5 years of age, the other subsequent up to the 12th standard. But in both, surprisingly even in the earlier kiddy level - there was initially subtle and then overt opposition from the teachers. It was first about my questioning and disputing. I would question and challenge the Biblical stuff they claimed was the real truth - since I had already been given access to and could read the texts in my parents library at home. There was literally no restrictions on texts from my parents. In fact I was encouraged to read "adult", unabridged and unedited versions and not the so-called "children's" version of many standard literarure and texts.
Dinner times were compulsorily all three of us (unless they were off on their tours and I would be with granddad in the country estate and later with my "adoptive" granddad -who were again staunchly, and strongly SD) and it would be typically a long dinner with debates on all and sundry. Both my granddads (one biological and the other ideological) gave me one freedom thats rare to get - the honour to be treated as an equal, and with absolutely no restriction on what can be discussed or talked about. Both were strongly "nationalistic" and the second one was quite notorious for many when he was in active politics as a "strongman" of national stature (albeit in the "secular" camp!). But they were strongly influential in reinforcing my questioning/doubting mentality.
I have been expelled from school on several occasions for challenging the scriptural and biblical as well as "historical" claims (they were always overlaid with accusations of indiscipline and leading a "mafia"). But you know what - it was the Indian-born and SD-born and converted Christians who were more reactive and over-zealous. Invariably the Anglo-Indians supported me and many a times they were the key in the tri-partite negoitiations that saw my expulsion withdrawn. Could be an advanced tactical play - but nevertheless. In fact it was one Anglo-Indian language teacher who privately provided me with some access to linguistic research that was beginning to challenge some of the early IE linguistic dogma. He encouraged me to learn Sanskrit, Prakrit, and Pali if possible and suggested that I should try to read texts in the original.
There could be a lot of subversives in places we do not expect them to be.
PS: I forgot to add earlier - that it was the non-converted, "Hindu", teachers - particularly in the sciences and "economics" who were inevitably supportive of the "pro-Biblical" lobby against me! At the time I did not much understand this phenomenon. My ideological granddad explained that I was yet to understand what drove mediocrety in society and made them elite.
I find all the above discussions quite interesting. Because it reminds me of my own peculiar experiences. I was enrolled consecutively into two "missionary" schools, one from 2-5 years of age, the other subsequent up to the 12th standard. But in both, surprisingly even in the earlier kiddy level - there was initially subtle and then overt opposition from the teachers. It was first about my questioning and disputing. I would question and challenge the Biblical stuff they claimed was the real truth - since I had already been given access to and could read the texts in my parents library at home. There was literally no restrictions on texts from my parents. In fact I was encouraged to read "adult", unabridged and unedited versions and not the so-called "children's" version of many standard literarure and texts.
Dinner times were compulsorily all three of us (unless they were off on their tours and I would be with granddad in the country estate and later with my "adoptive" granddad -who were again staunchly, and strongly SD) and it would be typically a long dinner with debates on all and sundry. Both my granddads (one biological and the other ideological) gave me one freedom thats rare to get - the honour to be treated as an equal, and with absolutely no restriction on what can be discussed or talked about. Both were strongly "nationalistic" and the second one was quite notorious for many when he was in active politics as a "strongman" of national stature (albeit in the "secular" camp!). But they were strongly influential in reinforcing my questioning/doubting mentality.
I have been expelled from school on several occasions for challenging the scriptural and biblical as well as "historical" claims (they were always overlaid with accusations of indiscipline and leading a "mafia"). But you know what - it was the Indian-born and SD-born and converted Christians who were more reactive and over-zealous. Invariably the Anglo-Indians supported me and many a times they were the key in the tri-partite negoitiations that saw my expulsion withdrawn. Could be an advanced tactical play - but nevertheless. In fact it was one Anglo-Indian language teacher who privately provided me with some access to linguistic research that was beginning to challenge some of the early IE linguistic dogma. He encouraged me to learn Sanskrit, Prakrit, and Pali if possible and suggested that I should try to read texts in the original.
There could be a lot of subversives in places we do not expect them to be.
PS: I forgot to add earlier - that it was the non-converted, "Hindu", teachers - particularly in the sciences and "economics" who were inevitably supportive of the "pro-Biblical" lobby against me! At the time I did not much understand this phenomenon. My ideological granddad explained that I was yet to understand what drove mediocrety in society and made them elite.
Last edited by brihaspati on 08 Mar 2011 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Interests
To really counter the so-called proselytizing Abrahamic (the two later branches) it is really important to read up and absorb the details of how the two evolved, what their original texts say, and what historical or archaeological evidence says about their reality over time. It is crucial to study their own factional infighting, their essentially imperialistic character, and to point these things out to children as early as possible. The internal struggles withthin both these organized religion throw up enough ammunition to destroy their ideological pretensions. I will try to put up some pointer sin GDF.
Re: Indian Interests
^^^ one of the favorite tactics is to label Hindus as backward, and superstitious, and stuck up in old ways. this can be easily challenged by pointing out that belief in GOD, in religious rituals, and Supernatural influence on life is something that is very widespread even among Christians. listen to radio shows in US (even excluding Beck, Limbaugh), and you'll see what i mean. even music playing radio shows have hosts who don't shy away from talking about Christ and GOD and the LORD. in fact, it must also be pointed out that this habit of looking down on Hindus is actually the racist aspect of Westerners.
Re: Indian Interests
For rounded arguments, the following are invaluable as well (currently the atheists par excellence):
1. Christopher Hitchens - God is not Great
2. Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion
3. Sam Harris - The End of Faith & Letter to a Christian Nation
4. Daniel Dennett - Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon
And some of you may be surprised by No. 5: Amartya Sen - The Argumentative Indian.
Easy reading for laymen, even teenagers, and extremely lucid.
1. Christopher Hitchens - God is not Great
2. Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion
3. Sam Harris - The End of Faith & Letter to a Christian Nation
4. Daniel Dennett - Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon
And some of you may be surprised by No. 5: Amartya Sen - The Argumentative Indian.
Easy reading for laymen, even teenagers, and extremely lucid.
Re: Indian Interests
brihaspati:
i've tried reading the Bible. i honestly cannot read more than 7-8 pages at a time. invariably, my eyes start drooping and i start dousing off. i have read and continue to read a variety of material from fiction to non-fiction and i must say the Bible is the only book yet where I can never read more than 6/7 pages on one sitting. but i intend to try it again, hopefully this time i can prolong my attention span for at least a solid hour/sitting.
i've tried reading the Bible. i honestly cannot read more than 7-8 pages at a time. invariably, my eyes start drooping and i start dousing off. i have read and continue to read a variety of material from fiction to non-fiction and i must say the Bible is the only book yet where I can never read more than 6/7 pages on one sitting. but i intend to try it again, hopefully this time i can prolong my attention span for at least a solid hour/sitting.
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Re: Indian Interests
That may not work because it will be passed off as criticism from outsiders - and that whatever they do is "divine", and even if others do the same as long as they do not "accept *****" those others are practising "evil". A better method is to show the degree of disagreement and sectarian hostility and trashing of each other from within themselves. Because their whole claims of authority or legitimacy is based on "inheritance" of an "ideological succession" they need to expel rival claimants to that authority for what essentially is a search for domination and personal power. So sectarianism which is also violently struggling to gain supremacy will never end in either stream.
That internal war is what can provide the best ammunition.
That internal war is what can provide the best ammunition.
Re: Indian Interests
In almost all hotels in US have Bible in every room's table drawer....so it just struck to me that why not verify about Adam coming to earth on 7th day...what year before Christ and such details...so I quickly frisked through Bible and I didn't see any "year" mentioned at all or any such info in Gibson Bible.devesh wrote:brihaspati:
i've tried reading the Bible. i honestly cannot read more than 7-8 pages at a time. invariably, my eyes start drooping and i start dousing off. i have read and continue to read a variety of material from fiction to non-fiction and i must say the Bible is the only book yet where I can never read more than 6/7 pages on one sitting. but i intend to try it again, hopefully this time i can prolong my attention span for at least a solid hour/sitting.
Re: Indian Interests
^^nice. I like the report - czech born, chinese origin, and folks from across India (all dancing to the same drummer ). Shows what is right with India.