Internal Security Watch

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 23 Feb 2010 04:04

Killing unrighteous folks by even employing unrighteous method is righteousness.

On a side note Naxals offered 72 hours truce and then attacked security camp in WB. I seriously hope we don't fall for their truce.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Feb 2010 04:09

sunnyP wrote:Sikh terror outfits seeking volunteers from US, India: Report

CHANDIGARH: Security around top leaders and vital installations in Punjab has been increased following intelligence reports of Pakistan-based Sikh separatist groups trying to recruit youth from the US and India to revive terrorism in the state.

The agreement between Indian govt, US govt and the Pakistan govt to round up all these anti-India groups have made these outfit even more aggressive in their final moment.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 23 Feb 2010 06:10

I thought blogs such as indianvanguard, naxalrevolution, naxaliterage, etc. were the outlets for the maoist oiseaules. Heehee, guess what, rediff is right on the dot now

. Here is an interview with Muppalla Laxman Rao aka Ganapathi, the "general-secretary" of CPI (Maoist). And in the jungle, on the run, Shri Ganapathy can happily recall dates such as Oct 20, 1980, etc. E&PW, available on jstor for those who may be keen, is the commie outlet, no wonder I can expect Gautam Navlakha and a furriner Jan Myrdal to fill in the space when Ganapathy ah-hem provides a breather, I am sure.

http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/ ... apathy.htm

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 23 Feb 2010 18:31

5 feared dead in major fire at Bangalore's Carlton Towers

BANGALORE: Five people are feared dead in a major fire that broke out on Tuesday at the Carlton Towers, which houses many commercial offices and establishments, on Old Airport Road at Domlur here.

Eight fire tenders have been rushed to the spot, fire brigade sources said. The fire broke out at 4.30 pm, they said.

Eyewitnesses said that the rescuers were bringing down people using fire hoses down the sides. The fire department has not been able to assess how serious the fire is.

People broke open glass panes with bare hands and any other material they could lay hands on to let out the smoke. Dozens of office-goers were seen coughing as they were caught in the smoke.

Hundreds of people gathered on the busy street hindering the free movement of fire brigade vehicles and fire personnel. Police said a few people jumped out of the building and suffered minor injuries.

A large number of people are stuck in the building. A user trapped in the building tweets (username: Kiran Jonnalagadda) about the latest happening:

“Carlton Towers is burning and six of us are trapped inside. The fire's above but there's smoke everywhere. Saw people jump to their death.”

“Don't call me folks, you can't help. Will keep posting.”

“Our rescue ladder. It'll only reach the fourth floor. We're on the fifth.”

“Massive crowd outside. This must have choked traffic for kilometers around.”

Many users write in about the massive crowd near the place, which is causing traffic blockage. Tweetizens are also posting latest pictures of the happenings in the building.

The Twitteratti doing their bit by telling people the actual on-goings to avoid false rumours.

People are also warning the others to not to come on that road to avoid the chaos; one user enquires, “We are 20 minutes from Carlton Towers Bangalore. Which is on fire. Hope Things are not as bad as it seems to me”

Another link

Five people were feared dead when a fire broke out on the 7th and 8th floor of Carlton Towers, located on the Old Airport road at Domlur in Bengaluru [ Images ] city, on Tuesday afternoon at around 4:30 pm.

Latest reports state that the fire is under control now and all the the trapped people have been evacuated.

The casualties occured as reportedly few people tried to jump out from the building.

Reports stated that an electric short circuit caused the fire in the building, which houses many offices and commercial establishments. Eight fire tenders were rushed to the spot to deal with the situation.

A heavy jam has deadlocked the traffic around the building due to the fire.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 23 Feb 2010 19:19

Can foreign carriers/airports be held liable for such cases?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 608324.cms

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 23 Feb 2010 19:45

"5 feared dead in major fire at Bangalore's Carlton Towers

Quote:
BANGALORE: Five people are feared dead in a major fire that broke out on Tuesday at the Carlton Towers, which houses many commercial offices and establishments, on Old Airport Road at Domlur here.

Eight fire tenders have been rushed to the spot, fire brigade sources said. The fire broke out at 4.30 pm, they said.

Eyewitnesses said that the rescuers were bringing down people using fire hoses down the sides. The fire department has not been able to assess how serious the fire is.

People broke open glass panes with bare hands and any other material they could lay hands on to let out the smoke. Dozens of office-goers were seen coughing as they were caught in the smoke."

What about fire escapes( for low rise buildings) and fire drills in India? Sad event, condolences for the lost lives and injuries.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 24 Feb 2010 00:07

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ai/583514/
BARC scientist found murdered in Mumbai

Mahadevan Padmanabhan Iyer (42), a mechanical engineer working in BARC's Reactor Group, was found murdered at his residence 'Anand Bhavan' near Breach Candy Hospital late last night," Deputy Commissioner of Police Sanjay Mohite said.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 24 Feb 2010 06:38

Some good news,

The president of the People’s Committee Against Police Atrocities (PCPA), the Maoist-backed tribal resistance group based in Lalgarh, Lalmohan Tudu, 48, was killed last night in what police claimed was “retaliatory fire” after guerrillas attacked a CRPF camp here.

Tudu, who kept a low profile, had become the president of the committee in November 2008 when it was floated. He was rarely at the forefront of the movement, but had accompanied Chhatradhar Mahato, who is now in jail, to a meeting with the Election Commission before the Lok Sabha polls.

But where is Shashadhar Mahato, CM's brother and the "brain" behind the armed wing?
http://telegraphindia.com/1100224/jsp/f ... 145154.jsp

PC and the maoist cabal are playing to the gallery. But what exactly is the gallery --- furriners, educated elites of India, GoI circles with a soft spot for our "boys"????
Govt-Maoist skirmish: fax versus phone
http://telegraphindia.com/1100224/jsp/n ... 145181.jsp
Seems like the answer is right in the article.

The ministry has been working on a two-to-three year plan against the rebels. “We are in it for a long haul. Security forces need to dominate the areas that Maoists have under control. For this we need to deploy men. It will take two to three years to turn the tide against the Maoists,” a source said. Plans suggest one lakh trained security personnel could be deployed in Maoist-affected areas by the end of this year and another 1.5 lakh by June 2011. The Maharashtra government has adopted a similar strategy in insurgency-hit Gadhchiroli district. It has deployed 4,000 police personnel and will soon send another 2,000 men.

“It is only area domination that will help. Unlike in the past, when we would enter an area, carry out an offensive and leave, now our companies occupy and squat in Maoist areas,” an official said. Sources said the next step would be to set up a police station, mobile medical vans and flood the area with free rations to send the message that the Indian state was the “good guy”. “It is the fight for grassroots support. By carrying out development work, we intend to weaken their (Maoists’) support base,” said an official.

More from rediff on the naxal uvacha
http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/ ... -might.htm

Pass me that icon for banging head against the wall if the following is true.
Centre-Maoist secret talks on: Experts
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_ce ... ts_1351834

Elsewhere,

Police today busted a gang of arm suppliers in Imphal East while suspected militants killed a surrendered rebel in Imphal West in two separate incidents. Altogether five arms suppliers — identified as Ngangbam Premchand, 37, Takhelchangbam Robilchandra Singh, 32, Soyam Lelen, 40, Nongthonbam Boy Singh, 30, and Thangjam Bijoy Singh, 40 — were arrested. The police said they were supplying arms to the Peoples Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak (Prepak).

http://telegraphindia.com/1100224/jsp/n ... 142375.jsp

RIP sir! Captain killed in Valley
http://telegraphindia.com/1100224/jsp/n ... 144924.jsp

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 24 Feb 2010 06:53

vijayk wrote:http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ai/583514/
BARC scientist found murdered in Mumbai

Mahadevan Padmanabhan Iyer (42), a mechanical engineer working in BARC's Reactor Group, was found murdered at his residence 'Anand Bhavan' near Breach Candy Hospital late last night," Deputy Commissioner of Police Sanjay Mohite said.

Late last year there was the mysterious disappearance of another atomic scientist, at Kaiga IIRC... followed by the discovery of his dead body. Don't know what has been unearthed in that case.

Could the ISI (or someone else) be targeting Indian nuclear scientists for elimination, as Mossad is known to have done with Arab scientists through the 1970s and 80s? If so, what are they aiming to prevent? Anything specific?

An interesting coincidence here too. Mumbaikars will know that Iyer's residence, Anand Bhavan, is directly across the street from the US Consulate. It is also on the same block as Moksh Gym of David Headley/Rahul Butt/Vilas Warak fame.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 24 Feb 2010 11:19

Cargo plane lands with AK-47 rifles from Dubai

Chennai, Feb 23 (PTI) A mysterious consignment of 10 AK-47 rifles along with telescopes landed here in a cargo plane three days ago and now security agencies are hot on trail of a man from Uttar Pradesh. Yusuf, a resident of Varanasi and a Customs Clearing agent here, is on the run and the police are looking for him after a person to whom the cargo was addressed claimed he had nothing to do with it.
...

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Feb 2010 11:46

Was it Rifles with telescopes or telescope only ? another article

Three held for smuggling in long-range riflescopes

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 609158.cms

Are we naive enough to belive that the authorites in Dubai are incompetant or are they in it?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 24 Feb 2010 12:06

Sumeet wrote:On a side note Naxals offered 72 hours truce and then attacked security camp in WB. I seriously hope we don't fall for their truce.

Hindu reports the following statement from P. Chidambaram. If he means what he says, then Naxals are going to soon face the music. 72 days is a long time, and Naxalites being the cunning crooks they are can easily muster up their forces and start launching more dastardly attack. Only repeated poundings, will break them in.

Varoon Shekhar wrote:What about fire escapes( for low rise buildings) and fire drills in India? Sad event, condolences for the lost lives and injuries.

I have seen fire escapes in most of the newly constructed buildings. Also there are fire fighting equipments at every floor (or important places). But having said that:-
1. Most of these fire safety equipments are just kept there for getting the initial clearance from the Fire Brigade. They are not periodically checked, refilled or tested whether they are functioning. In case of Carlton Towers the automatic locks on the doors leading to the fire stair case was locked !!! That means that no body did even test these things on a regular basis.
2. These high rise buildings would be built by one builder, and then leased out (or given on rent) to multiple others (shops, hotels etc. etc.) The end result is that nobody is really bothered about the people who work there. All of them is interested in making money. Carlton Towers had three popular food outlets operating from there. Even they were not really bothered with fire & safety.
3. Even for high rise apartment buildings, the builder fixes all the fire safety devices and hand it over to the "Resident's association". The maintenance and checks of these equipments becomes there job. Fat chance they actually do that (and of course when some thing goes wrong, they always have the government, police and fire brigade to blame).

I have seen regular fire drills in IT majors. As part of their security audits (some times mandated by their clients), they also have to show evidence for fire and safety drills and operation and testing of fire pumps and hoses etc. So that is slightly better.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 Feb 2010 12:22

The president of the People’s Committee Against Police Atrocities (PCPA), the Maoist-backed tribal resistance group based in Lalgarh, was killed last night in what police claimed was “retaliatory fire” after guerrillas attacked a CRPF camp here.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

PCPA is just a front from the Maoist.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 Feb 2010 12:36

^^^ One good thing that has happened in Real Estate Sector due to presence of various MNC IT majors is the issue of Fire and Building(F&B) safety. These companies have extremely strict F&B safety norms (used in their facilities abroad). Considering the fact most of the space occupiers (especially the big ones) in various IT Parks across the country are these MNC companies, the developers have been forced to adhere to their requirement of safety norms.

All these companies carry out an extensive F&B audit before taking up the space and only after the building has met the desired safety norms, will the space be taken up. And the companies do not go along with only NOCs given by various departments. Every thing is checked by them physically.And there is constant audit of these facilities. The upkeep of the parks is itself outsourced to professional Facilities Management Companies. Any deviation from these norms (later on), is considered a material breach. As one Corporate Real Estate (CRE) guy from the Big Blue once told me,'Once the employee is within x-meters of the office/facility, his security and safety is the responsibility of the company'.

God forbid, if any such fire breaks out in one of these parks, the chances of survival and safe evacuation are much higher for employees there. Old buildings are a different matter all together.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Feb 2010 17:33

Kerala to setup dedicated anti terror probe squad

Taking a serious view of several Keralites being arrested in terror-related cases, the Kerala government plans to form a dedicated anti-terror investigation squad in the police. {Kerala should seriously introspect as to why it is so. If there are inconvenient facts, they should be faced rather than sweeping them under the secularism carpet}

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 24 Feb 2010 19:14

Are we naive enough to belive that the authorites in Dubai are incompetant or are they in it?

They are neck deep in it when it comes to assisting ISI.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 24 Feb 2010 20:33

^^ Are they?

I have family friends who are very close with the head of airport secuiryt in DXB airport. For what its worth, those guys are extremely strict and they want to know about ANYTHING that passes through that airport, even if it is at the detriment of public relations for the emirate or where somethings should be kept extremely secret. So, I would think that they would have had the right papers to get these scopes exported. I would be extremely suprised if they allowed rifles to go through.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 24 Feb 2010 20:57

Aditya_V wrote:Was it Rifles with telescopes or telescope only ? another article

According to PTI AK series rifles were also recovered but other reports mention only the scopes.

Aditya_V wrote:
Three held for smuggling in long-range riflescopes
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 609158.cms

From the link,
"IB sources said that they have not ruled out the possibility of a assassination or terror plot behind the smuggling."

This is the part to be careful about, since these weapons and scopes were bound for Meerut,UP the likely target was mayawati. Mayawati has been the focus of two failed assassination attempts in the past by LeT. There are close connections between LeT and SIMI/IM (which is mostly concentrated in some parts of UP) which have been revealed after pune blasts when SIMI/IM conducted the blasts while the responsibility for the blasts was taken by the LeT leadership sitting in pakistan. Wouldnt be surprising if LeT is masterminding another attack on mayawati and SIMI/IM modules are being used to execute the attack.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Feb 2010 21:04

^^
Why Mayawati of all people?

munna · Post by **munna** » 24 Feb 2010 21:33

sum wrote:^^
Why Mayawati of all people?

Well we may like it or not but she stands for a lot of things that have gone right for the SCs in India. Although tainted she symbolizes the "Indian Dream" for formerly disenfrenchized citizens of India. Given her achievement of becoming the CM of most populous state of India and her ability to sew together a rainbow coalition of Brahmins and SCs she is definitely a big thorn in the foot for a lot of forces inimical to India. Mayawati changed from "Tilak, Tarazu aur Talwar, inko maaro juute chaar" (brhamins, vaishs and thakurs should be hit with shoes) in early nineties to "Haathi nahi Ganesh hai, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh hai" (Its not an elephant but Lord Ganesha, a symbol of holy Hindu Trinity) in 2000s

.

Mayawati is inspiration to a lot of downtrodden in India (howsoever flawed one) and hence she is under threat.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 24 Feb 2010 21:41

^^ Good points. She may also have upset some people, naturally she may have made a lot of enemies with her success.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2010 21:41

sum wrote:^^
Why Mayawati of all people?

I guess sum you dont read the newspapers. She is a very important political node in India. And dont go by reporters bias. She serves a very important role in Indina polity today.

Totally agree with munnaji.

Well we may like it or not but she stands for a lot of things that have gone right for the SCs in India. Although tainted she symbolizes the "Indian Dream" for formerly disenfrenchized citizens of India. Given her achievement of becoming the CM of most populous state of India and her ability to sew together a rainbow coalition of Brahmins and SCs she is definitely a big thorn in the foot for a lot of forces inimical to India. Mayawati changed from "Tilak, Tarazu aur Talwar, inko maaro juute chaar" (brhamins, vaishs and thakurs should be hit with shoes) in early nineties to "Haathi nahi Ganesh hai, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh hai" (Its not an elephant but Lord Ganesha, a symbol of holy Hindu Trinity) in 2000s .

Mayawati is inspiration to a lot of downtrodden in India (howsoever flawed one) and hence she is under threat.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 24 Feb 2010 22:22

SSridhar wrote:Kerala to setup dedicated anti terror probe squad
Taking a serious view of several Keralites being arrested in terror-related cases, the Kerala government plans to form a dedicated anti-terror investigation squad in the police. {Kerala should seriously introspect as to why it is so. If there are inconvenient facts, they should be faced rather than sweeping them under the secularism carpet}

It is not about the police but about the society.
Why are more Kerala people terrorists now.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2010 23:01

^ Isnt that too broad a brush stroke? Its maybe they are being uncovered now?

negi · Post by **negi** » 24 Feb 2010 23:09

Mullah Yadav and his party of thugs has been hit the most by gains made by the BSP .

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 25 Feb 2010 00:53

sum wrote:^^
Why Mayawati of all people?

Mayawati has been tough on SIMI/IM and also M Yadav did a lot of corruption in hiring 17K policemen some of whom were potential militants and possibly part of sleeper cells.

http://www.igovernment.in/site/mayawati ... -policemen

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Feb 2010 08:12

Raksha Bhavan on Headley radar

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 005&mode=1

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Feb 2010 08:56

Tamilnadu coast-line mapping to be completed in 10 days

The Coastal Security Group will complete mapping of the entire coastline, from a security perspective, in another 10 days.

The expedition along the shoreline, which was flagged off from Chennai and is led by Rajesh Das, Inspector General of Police, Coastal Security Group, has reached Rameswaram and mapped the coastline till the island.

“We will take another ten days to reach Kanyakumari. By then, we will have a comprehensive map of the coastline from a security perspective,” said Mr. Das, who took an unscheduled break to attend a seminar on ‘Coastal security in India,’ organised here by the Department of Defence and Strategic Studies (DDSS), University of Madras, and the Chennai chapter of the National Maritime Foundation.

He said the expedition had mapped all roads leading to the waterfront — both kuchcha and pucca — and all fish landing sites along the coast so far. The expedition was also to test the durability and adaptability of some of the vehicles that would be pressed into service. All Terrain Vehicles had come out on top in all the tests.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 25 Feb 2010 11:14

SSridhar wrote:Kerala should seriously introspect as to why it is so. If there are inconvenient facts, they should be faced rather than sweeping them under the secularism carpet

I would have to take this news with a huge bucket of salt. The Kerala Police had formed an ATS (Anti-Terrorism Squad) atleast a couple of years back, headed by a DIG (Vinodkumar??). This was when "fat-man" Nazir etc. were still in their developing stages. This team had made some progresses, but if I am correct due to political pressure they had to go slow on the terrorists. The ATS was once even disbanded and the policemen in the team were moved back to their parent units (many of them from the local police and KAP camps at Kannur Dt.). So the Kerala Govt., now making statements like "okay.. we now understand the threat, and we are changing" etc., may be just a trick to skip away from the problems.

Acharya wrote:It is not about the police but about the society. Why are more Kerala people terrorists now.

+1 to what ramana said

. We also need to consider the situation in Kerala. Unlike folks in North, Kerala has not witnessed any major war. Soldiers from Kerala would have got killed in these wars, but for an average Mallu the war was fought some where else. The last major communal riot (which showed the ugly face of Islam) was way back in 1921. Even this was later heavily white washed by communist historians like EMS Namboodirippad and portrayed as freedom struggle, peasent revolt etc. etc.

Also note that "Gelf" is the dream-town for an average Mallu. This may also have led to kind of "he is my saviour" kind of feeling to the Middle East and the majority religion out there. Heavy propoganda during Babri Masjid demolition, Gujarath riots etc. Politicians (primarily commies) used these incidents to show-case that in Kerala, such things will never happen because both Congress and the commies are there to fight out the "evil Hindus" (and their party, the BJP). Because of all this an average Mallu might have thought that Muslims from Kerala, would not take up Jehad and let them live peacefully.

Now a rude shock was given to them. That what ever commies and other seculars might yap, and what ever assurances are made, they were practically doing nothing to stop Jihadis. The Jihadis infact misused atmosphere in Kerala, where various governments were afraid to take strong action (fearing that they would be labelled communal).

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Feb 2010 12:12

Mayawati has been the focus of two failed assassination attempts in the past by LeT. There are close connections between LeT and SIMI/IM (which is mostly concentrated in some parts of UP) which have been revealed after pune blasts when SIMI/IM conducted the blasts while the responsibility for the blasts was taken by the LeT leadership sitting in pakistan.

Maya can and will take teh fight to the jeehardies in UP if she perceives her personal life and limb as being under any risk, period. And no, the communal label doesn't stick when applied to Maya mem as easily as it would stick to, say an Uma or a Sushma. And even if it stuck, it wouldn't bother her. Wonder what happened to the investigations after the Ramgarh police camp terror attack. Ramgarh is a minority majority distt, IIRC and Azamgarh is always there to provide backup.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 25 Feb 2010 13:15

Hari Seldon wrote:Maya can and will take teh fight to the jeehardies in UP if she perceives her personal life and limb as being under any risk, period. And no, the communal label doesn't stick when applied to Maya mem as easily as it would stick to, say an Uma or a Sushma. And even if it stuck, it wouldn't bother her. Wonder what happened to the investigations after the Ramgarh police camp terror attack. Ramgarh is a minority majority distt, IIRC and Azamgarh is always there to provide backup.

err..minor nitpick sir,its rampur if you are talking about CRPF camp attack.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Feb 2010 13:41

^^True. Its Rampur, not ramgarh. Got mixed up with someplace else.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Feb 2010 14:04

Save GOA.Stamp out the mafias and the local criminals.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 09449.html

Goa 'becoming sex and drugs haven'
Wednesday, 24 February 2010

India's tourism mecca Goa is fast becoming a centre for the sex trade and drugs, a leading business group has said.

The Goa Chamber of Commerce and Industry (GCCI) warned the state government to protect Goa's image as a tourist-friendly destination.

"Tourism in Goa, of late, is getting a bad name, with it slowly emerging as a drug and sex destination," GCCI president Cesar Menezes said.

"There is no basic tourism and entertainment infrastructure in the state. Problems of law and order and rubbish will spell doom for state tourism," he said.

The state's tourism minister Mickky Pacheco had earlier said Goa was on its way to becoming the rape capital of India.

Many foreign tourists have been sexually assaulted in the past few years in the state including British teenager Scarlett Keeling. The Devon girl was raped and murdered at Anjuna beach in February 2008.

Most recently, a nine-year-old Russian girl was sexually abused, sparking a nationwide debate on the safety of tourists in Goa.

The government, however, has increased security for tourists and promised to take tough action against the culprits to avoid these incidents in the future.
Source: The Belfast Telegraph

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 25 Feb 2010 17:04

Another Kandhamal in the making.

Hindu Sindhi conversions in Ulhasnagar, Mumbai raise a storm
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_s ... rm_1351837

Mumbai: The close-knit Sindhi community in Ulhasnagar, north-east of Mumbai, is undergoing a social upheaval of sorts. Over the last two years, a sizeable number in the township — primarily created for Sindhis who came in as refugees from Pakistan’s Sindh province after partition — have drifted away from Hinduism and embraced Christianity.

The “conversions” have sent shockwaves among the community elders, specially since Indian Sindhis, weighed down by the scars of partition, are known to be staunch followers of Hinduism.

Out of four lakh Sindhi-speaking Hindus in Ulhasnagar, around 7,000 (1.75%) have changed their faith in the last two years, according to a rough count. The growing number of “conversions” has scared the Sindhi-speaking Hindus to such an extent that they are contemplating a social boycott of the neo-Christians. Those who are taking to Christianity are not branding it as a conversion; instead, they say they have only changed their faith. Most have not even changed their Hindu names, which is turning out to be a major bone of contention with the Hindus.

“We are not against any religion but if they do not believe in Hinduism and are drawn closer to Christianity, they should adopt Christian names.

“Sindhis are known for their loyalty to Hinduism. We preferred to leave our places (in Pakistan) during the Partition but refused to convert into Islam. Now, we are confused how to face the situation,” a senior citizen from the community said.

You gotta convert the unbelievers, my friend, by hook, crook or Book. 1.75%, that would still be a small red dot on the Joshuaa Project, though.

Social boycott is only tackling the symptoms, the root cause of conversions, the funds will never be blocked by the government. Every year the Home Ministry does release the foreign funding report and the figures have only gone up. Like in Andhra, in Kakinada and Guntur and Khammam and Srikakulam, where number of "prayer halls" as per AP Endowment /Revenue dept. far outnumber the temples and the mosques, even though their population is far less , as taken from AP State Minorities Finance Commission.

At the local level, from Andhra to Mumbai to Punjab, the centres that spread the Love among the converts should be closed down and the neo converts be offered a chance to return to the original faith. Unless people mobilise and carry out a disciplined approach to close down the centres, the problem will continue to thrive and reinvent itself.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 25 Feb 2010 17:27

AjayKK wrote:Another Kandhamal in the making.

Hindu Sindhi conversions in Ulhasnagar, Mumbai raise a storm
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_s ... rm_1351837

Mumbai: The close-knit Sindhi community in Ulhasnagar, north-east of Mumbai, is undergoing a social upheaval of sorts. Over the last two years, a sizeable number in the township — primarily created for Sindhis who came in as refugees from Pakistan’s Sindh province after partition — have drifted away from Hinduism and embraced Christianity.

The “conversions” have sent shockwaves among the community elders, specially since Indian Sindhis, weighed down by the scars of partition, are known to be staunch followers of Hinduism.

Out of four lakh Sindhi-speaking Hindus in Ulhasnagar, around 7,000 (1.75%) have changed their faith in the last two years, according to a rough count. The growing number of “conversions” has scared the Sindhi-speaking Hindus to such an extent that they are contemplating a social boycott of the neo-Christians. Those who are taking to Christianity are not branding it as a conversion; instead, they say they have only changed their faith. Most have not even changed their Hindu names, which is turning out to be a major bone of contention with the Hindus.

“We are not against any religion but if they do not believe in Hinduism and are drawn closer to Christianity, they should adopt Christian names.

“Sindhis are known for their loyalty to Hinduism. We preferred to leave our places (in Pakistan) during the Partition but refused to convert into Islam. Now, we are confused how to face the situation,” a senior citizen from the community said.
You gotta convert the unbelievers, my friend, by hook, crook or Book. 1.75%, that would still be a small red dot on the Joshuaa Project, though.

Social boycott is only tackling the symptoms, the root cause of conversions, the funds will never be blocked by the government. Every year the Home Ministry does release the foreign funding report and the figures have only gone up. Like in Andhra, in Kakinada and Guntur and Khammam and Srikakulam, where number of "prayer halls" as per AP Endowment /Revenue dept. far outnumber the temples and the mosques, even though their population is far less , as taken from AP State Minorities Finance Commission.

At the local level, from Andhra to Mumbai to Punjab, the centres that spread the Love among the converts should be closed down and the neo converts be offered a chance to return to the original faith. Unless people mobilise and carry out a disciplined approach to close down the centres, the problem will continue to thrive and reinvent itself.

This again shows, how caste system developed and perpetuated...

Careful reading of this report, gives the modus operandi of Hindu society, which has not at all changed in past 1200 years.. The only response a Hindu has towards stopping the conversion to Exclusivist religions is "Social Boycott". With time, this boycotted Sindhis will become a caste in itself, thereby limiting the conversion to the small group, but also closing all the doors of reconversion..

This is how Hindus have closed doors to millions of forcible converts to Islam and Christianity. And this is why Hindus have to pay the price of their karma in modern times. The fate which Sindhis suffered in 1947 was partially due to accumulated neglect towards their duty of reconquista and reconversion over the period of 1300 years.

Why do Hindus always play on the strengths of Islam and Christianity? Haven't we learnt about this even after long onslaught. How long will our response be "Social Boycott" which eventually leads to stringent caste system.

The strength of Indian civilization inclusivity. Hindus have to unleash their vishwa-roop.. Everything that exists is parabrahman (Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma). one should start calling Christ as vishnu's 10th avatar and start calling all christians as Hindus. Instead of social boycott, there should be forced social assimilation.. only then can Hindus hope to reclaim their glory..

The glaani of Dharma is too huge and too disheartening, but there is hope still...

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 25 Feb 2010 18:56

Chiron wrote: Why do Hindus always play on the strengths of Islam and Christianity? Haven't we learnt about this even after long onslaught. How long will our response be "Social Boycott" which eventually leads to stringent caste system.

But social boycott raises the social cost of conversion to non-Indian faiths, therefore it should certainly be used as a deterrent against soul harvesting. The converts: past, present & prospective, should really be made to feel the pain of social exclusion. IMHO it is not the social boycott which hasn't worked, rather it has been the failure in implementing the boycott. The boycott must be total including even banishing the converts from the locality. Only then will the extent, of the cost to be borne, dawn on the converts. If the silent majority can enforce a successful social boycott, the evil of conversions and EJgiri will be stamped out of India.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 25 Feb 2010 19:37

derkonig wrote:
Chiron wrote: Why do Hindus always play on the strengths of Islam and Christianity? Haven't we learnt about this even after long onslaught. How long will our response be "Social Boycott" which eventually leads to stringent caste system.
But social boycott raises the social cost of conversion to non-Indian faiths, therefore it should certainly be used as a deterrent against soul harvesting. The converts: past, present & prospective, should really be made to feel the pain of social exclusion. IMHO it is not the social boycott which hasn't worked, rather it has been the failure in implementing the boycott. The boycott must be total including even banishing the converts from the locality. Only then will the extent, of the cost to be borne, dawn on the converts. If the silent majority can enforce a successful social boycott, the evil of conversions and EJgiri will be stamped out of India.

No, derkonig ji,

Social boycott works only in isolated societies wherein there is no other means of social security and identity. It worked to large extent in medieval times. Social boycott fuelled liginification of caste-system thereby making it more rigid. However, this stringent caste system of medieval times proved to be a deterrent against conversion and most of India remained a hindu majority.

What are the reasons that made boycott work. The basic needs of human being, food, shelter, sex, company was denied to an excommunicated individual. A villager OR a family could not share food OR was not considered fit enough for marital alliances (Roti-Beti Vyavahaar). Since without clan, the very identity and sources of all the needs of human being stopped, excommunication was considered as greater punishment than death.

In modern times, there is no way boycott can make the excommunicated person feel the real pinch. It is very easy for a young person (who is apparently under social boycott by his "community") to find food, clothing, shelter, sex, good company and a decent life (which may or may not be the best according to him, but well enough). If Sindhis do not give the boycotted family their daughter in marriage, any other christian will. OR he himself will find any other girl, get married and fulfil his emotional, sexual, physical needs.

The boycott was utilized too much by our ancestors. Due to no means of communication and travel, it worked then. Now, it won't work. Boycott and subsequently the system of "caste" is slowly getting irrelevant with times. I am amused at Sindhis for using an ancient weapon which is no longer convenient.

The better means of communication has worked wonders in India. No one thought that India would successfully exist, but it did, because the inherent bond of cultural unity was strengthened by these means. We are inclusivist civilization, not exclusivist. Calling vishnu as allah will not endanger a hindu's sense of dharma. But calling allah as Vishnu will endanger a muslim's imaan.

abrahamic religions feed on exclusive identity. By social boycott, Indians are playing on the strengths of Abrahamic religion. I have been saying this on many occasions. Indics need to brave up and start forcibly embracing the exclusivists so tightly that they are assimilated.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 25 Feb 2010 20:06

Chiron ji,
It is true that mobility barriers are almost non-existent today yet, one must not forget that even a convert needs a job, a house, school for children, market to buy goods. It is at each of these places that the social boycott needs to be enforced. Obviously, this cannot be overt action, as that would fall foul of the existing laws. The boycott has to be covert but *absolute*. So no houses for the converts in majority areas, no jobs/school admissions where ever possible and of course ostracizing them from social functions. Implementation of the social boycott is no easy affair but it will work.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 25 Feb 2010 20:18

I hope people would not mind, but all this Indic stuff and intellectual stuff really goes over the head.

No matter what people may say, the Hindu culture is soaked in the blood and genes of all sub continentals, no matter what religion they may have embraced.

In Pakistan, they may not call it caste, but it is very much evident. Question them and they blame it on Hinduism. Indeed, if it is so, it proves that a leopard can't change its spot. Too bad!

In our country, I read of how Christians would not go to the the Church since the pastor was of the 'scheduled caste' variety. Mother Teresa wanted reservations for 'scheduled caste' Christians!

Since when did Christians and Moslems have 'Scheduled castes'?

What is required is not the scary rhetoric of the type of Togadia, but good social service for upliftment.

Sooner, the better!

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 25 Feb 2010 20:23

derkonig wrote:Chiron ji,
It is true that mobility barriers are almost non-existent today yet, one must not forget that even a convert needs a job, a house, school for children, market to buy goods. It is at each of these places that the social boycott needs to be enforced. Obviously, this cannot be overt action, as that would fall foul of the existing laws. The boycott has to be covert but *absolute*. So no houses for the converts in majority areas, no jobs/school admissions where ever possible and of course ostracizing them from social functions. Implementation of the social boycott is no easy affair but it will work.

Social boycott cannot be implemented - the Churches have their own funds flowing in and their own support networks. But what will work is communication. Far too many Indians have very little idea what Dharma is all about.