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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 21:52 
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What the non-Sikh Indians perceive to be reality is vastly different from what the average Sikh in rural punjab perceives as the truth. They believe to this day that the marauders/extortionists/hoodlums/anarchists were police "cats" who were out to discredit the movement. Since the Khalistani movement was religion-based and against a secular state, the Govt of the day was also fighting against a religion or against significant aspects of it. But the latter was obviously denied in Indian media that the Indian state was 'almost' fighting against a religion, they made it out that it was just a few miscreants (Khalistanis) and the rest were a "peaceful majority". Amritdhari sikhs were the foremost and most prominent symbols of the Sikh religion and were thus targeted by the police during the 80s and early 90s. If Sikhs felt religiously distinct and wanted to stay distinct from a secular country with no particular emphasis on religion and Sikhs on the other hand want to make religion their national identity, then govt has to fight against the identity. I think that's what happened in the 80s. Only those on the ground in Punjab during those days, today in their 40s and 50s can give an accurate picture.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 23:11 
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I say this as a Punjabi Khatri who has Sikh In-Laws (Jutts) and whose paternal grandfather was the younger sibling of a sikh.

Your view is wrong. I have attended too many cop funerals (mostly Sikhs) in the late 80s and early 90s to swallow that. Ask the Hindu Population of even a cosmopolitan city like Chandigarh, where no one stepped outside their homes after dark (like the middle ages) and these are Punjabi Hindus, not UP/Bihar people who perpetrated 84 riots. Further, I have also had the misfortune of attending the funeral of my Father's colleague, M L Verma, Additional principal secretary to Bhajan Lal,his wife, and young son (a boy) in Feb'92 (I was 14 then). He was murdered near kakkar mazra. His second boy barely made it. I wonder what kind of life he would have had. I know I have never recovered from it.

What great point was being made by killing women and children like this, only they would know. But "Tractor tanks" (for night raids) were used to kill so many Militants that they ran out of steam. Terrorists are funny in that way, kill a very large number of them and they suddenly become reasonable.

You can only end terrorism by killing terrorists. That's exactly what was done. By the largely Sikh Police.

And lastly, most of the informers for the police were also Sikhs. They were ultimately harassed by those they were giving 'shelter' and lost faith in the 'movement'.

Although I don't dislike Badal, (his constituency was next to my Mother's native Gidderbaha), at some point the Akalis will have to contend with what I like to call Punjab's "Mayawati Moment". Punjab has the highest % of scheduled castes in India.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 23:32 
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Manu wrote:
not UP/Bihar people who perpetrated 84 riots. .


Manu ji , From where did you get the above story ? This is simply not true.Bulk of riots happened in Delhi and most of those who participated in these riots were not from UP/Bihar.

H.K.L Bhagat was a punjabi Hindu.Jagdish Tytler is again a Punjabi.Sajjan Kumar is from Delhi itself. People of UP/Bihar were and are mostly neutral towards sikhs.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 23:57 
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^^

The people that took parts in the 84 riots in Delhi were not Punjabi Hindus either. I was in Delhi then, in one of the west Delhi localities to be precise. The profile of the rank and file of the 84 rioting mob is well known.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 00:01 
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Darshhan ji, it would be better if you ask any Delhi based Sikhs. I stand by my assertion.

Being "from Delhi" is meaningless. There are 30 lakh people from Bihar alone in Delhi.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 00:13 
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To be fair, Bihari/UP migrants were not part of the rioting mobs.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 00:18 
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SRoy wrote:
To be fair, Bihari/UP migrants were not part of the rioting mobs.


May be some from the religion of peace?


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 00:40 
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Sankuji,

No. Followers of religion of peace are ghettoed only in few pockets in Delhi and they don't posses the numbers and the logistics. Read Darshan's post above. One of the ring leaders name is a dead give away.

Between my dad's posting in Delhi and my professional stint there, coincidentally I've spent around 15 years in and around 2-3 localities in West Delhi. And I've seen the demographic changes also (most of the 80s and the last decade). In 80s there were simply not enough outsiders in such concentrations to undertake rioting of that scale. On the other hand, Punjabi Hindus in those areas are what you'd categorize as typical middle class families.

Sirji, think logically...midddle class folks don't go around rioting and migrants in small numbers (as said in 80s there were not much) from far off states are there for their daily breads.

I think I've given enough hints.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 02:02 
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vera_k wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:
progressive, democratically elected chief minister in Punjab


Punjabis should be allowed to deal with this issue as they see fit. There were excesses on both sides during that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encounter_ ... ice#Punjab


Vera_k: So a murderer to be let off since there were other wrong-doers?

And what is this 'Punjabis'? SGPC is using its communal bent to get someone off. It does not mean 'Punjabis'.

What is both sides - Terrorists and govt? So, you might as well let go of Afzal, Kasab, and those Rajiv killers.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 02:09 
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habal wrote:

this is the view from Punjab.

Quote:
Beant Singh formed government in 1992 with support of the Congress party in Punjab. Most of the Punjab population boycotted the elections and he was elected on less than 10% of votes polled. During this time Director General of Police expanded upon a system of rewards and incentives for police to capture and kill militants, leading to a dramatic increase in disappearances and extrajudicial executions. Although all Sikhs were vulnerable to disappearance and killing, police especially targeted Amritdharis (Singhs/baptized Sikhs of the Khalsa), those who were politically active with the Akali Dal parties, and families and friends of alleged militants.[2]

By the end of the "Decade of Disappearances" in 1995, security forces had disappeared or killed tens of thousands of Sikhs. In order to cover up their crimes, Punjab security forces killed human rights defenders such as Jaswant Singh Khalra and Sukhwinder Singh Bhatti, as well as secretly cremated thousands of victims of extrajudicial executions between 1984 and 1995.[3]


I will not forget my view of Punjab - the tense moments of not knowing the fate until one heard back on safe arrival of the loved one (or self). The Khalistanis were pulling out all non-Sikhs from buses and shooting them. Does this view from Punjab also take that into consideration? How many 1000s were killed by the terrorists?

So, yes punish those who did excesses but do not absolve the terrorists.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 10:48 
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krithivas wrote:
Per ToI the execution has been stayed. Nothing else to be said. Anarchy wins again.

We can forget any more judicial executions in this country. The last fellow to hang Dhananjoy Chatterjee hung from the gallows because he had no political clout. Even worse criminals, terrorists etc. would now have fun time in the prison surviving on money without doing an honest day's job. These folks in Punjab have just given ideas to Jehadi and LTTE sympathisers. Kasab may demand chicken biriyani and more dishes after hearing that he is not going to die any time soon.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 14:50 
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Overheard online that the GoI may now have to give contracts to supari-heroes like Bob Biswas to execute the darned terrorists on our death row....


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 20:06 
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SRoy ji and Manu ji , First of all I never intended to say that Punjabis were involved in rioting.To make it clear once more , Punjabi Hindus were not involved in rioting i.e they did not make the masses of rioting public.I just pointed out the origins of the ringleaders.

Now the question is who made up bulk of these rioteers.Well let me try to explain the best I can.I belong to eastern delhi.This part comprises of areas like Trilokpuri,Patparganj etc which were the worst affected parts of Delhi.It is the from among the inhabitants of these areas who took part in these riots.Again who were these inhabitants ? They were not UP Bihari public.SRoy ji is completely right when he says that in 1984 UP bIHAR population was very less in Delhi.

It is the community which controls and dominates these areas even today. I will not mention the name of community in this forum since even from that community only a small percentage actually participated in riots.So there is no point in maligning the whole community. I will give you a hint though.The community name starts with V. Most of them are from Delhi and adjoining areas.Anyone from east Delhi who has some knowledge of local areas can attest this.

Similar is the case with the other affected areas.

Most People of UP and Bihar have no ill feelings towards Sikh community.

One point that I would like to make is that UP and Bihar compose of almost 300 million people. They are further divided into many subregions.Hence I do not think if one can generalise and stereotype them to fit a particular pattern of behaviour.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 20:12 
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Did Veerashaivas riot in Delhi in 1984? Is there any reason for this veil of secrecy surrounding the rioters? BRF is getting increasingly difficult to follow and understand with "innuendos", "hints", "sourcespeak", "chaipaanwalaspeak" etc. Seems sometime there is more fruitful discussion on Chamundi express and Bengaloru-Mysuru push-pull. Sorry for rant, slow day.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 21:21 
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something is really rotten in Punjab, it seems to be a vestige of the 80s and 90s. Here in 3 videos, there are one set of politicians/shiv sainiks/thugs who are non-sikhs taking cover behind police lines and taunting sikh mobs. The police seem to carry them along or are disinterested to rein them in. Who are these guys, they are seen in first video esp who leads the party that specializes in provoking the mob in white kurta pyjama.





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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 21:43 
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ManjaM wrote:
Did Veerashaivas riot in Delhi in 1984? Is there any reason for this veil of secrecy surrounding the rioters? BRF is getting increasingly difficult to follow and understand with "innuendos", "hints", "sourcespeak", "chaipaanwalaspeak" etc. Seems sometime there is more fruitful discussion on Chamundi express and Bengaloru-Mysuru push-pull. Sorry for rant, slow day.


ManjaM ji , Sorry.Never meant to be cryptic.But the problem is people are very quick to stereotype.Even though only a small fraction was involved , the whole community will be tagged unjustly.Just see how people are ever so ready to generalise UP Bihar population/North east/etc.

By the way it is not Veershaivas.By the way Trilokpuri and adjoining areas are the strongholds of Valmikis.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 21:56 
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they also go by bhangi, and IIRC a lot of them were butchers specializing in pork since it was no-go for muslims. Meo's, Gujjars are the mainly violent groups in Delhi.

suspects list:

Quote:
TRILOKPURI

BLOCK 5

1. Papita, a gangster

BLOCK 12

2. Brahmni (Mishrani) Shastri

BLOCK 14

3. Baleshwar Bhrgi alias Bhalu
4. Bal Kishan

BLOCK 21

5. Bihari Dhobi

BLOCK 25

6. B. D. Sharma

BLOCK 27

7. Israi Ali alias Chunnu
8. Salim, a notorious criminal
9. Massa, charas smuggler

BLOCK 28

10. Yayiha Siddiqui, clinic owner on the main road of Block 27
11. Monu Singh, shopkeeper
12. Soni, railway employee
13. Mukesh

BLOCK 29

14. Mukri Master

BLOCK 30

15. Om Parkash alias Omi, mason
16. Ved Parkash, brother of omi and head mason by vocation
17. Noor Jahan
18. Karamat, cement-seller
19. Shabnam, owner of a TV shop
20. Damesh
21. Punju
22. Salim
23. Advas’s son in law (Abbas of Block 32)
24. Mukri, video shop owner
25. Hasin

BLOCK 31

26. Kamruddinm four-mill owner
27. Nayamat Ali
28. Neenav, tea shop owner
29. Dr. V. P. Singh
30. Duli Chand, local gangster
31. Rampal Saroj, Congress (I) leader
32. Gopal Singh
33. Kishori Lal and his four brothers, manely, Shravan, Shiya Chote and Kamal who are a
alleged to have brutally murdered four Sikhs, Hukam Singh, Teerath Singh,
Sajjan Singh and Soma Singh.
34. Jaggi Sansi and his wife, Draupdi
35. Kharak Singh Pradhan
36. Gaffar Khan, cement seller
37. Manu Sansi
38. Aasim
39. Somnath, alleged to have killed Hoshiar Singh (son of Milap Singh) alongwith three
other men after locking them in a room and setting it on fire
40. Ajit
41. Kadir
42. Monga
43. Sati
44. Telo Sansi, Draupdi’s sister
45. Rooplal, who is alleged to have murdered Labh Singh
46. Omi Chamar, cobbler
47. Murari, vegetable-seller with a shop in Block 31
48. Pehlvaan, brother of Rashid
49. Bachchan
50. Aziz
51. Ansar
52. Kallo Khan, dhaba-owner
53. Abbaas, cloth and shoe shop owner in Block 27
54. Dr. Lambu
55. Bhallo, boot legger
56. Kayamat Ali
57. Raju Bhangi
58. Jaggi
59. Bhaiyya
60. Murli Khan
61. Sher Khan
62. Raju Ram
63. Bedhu Ram, alleged to have killed in 31/99 and 32/97 Blocks

BLOCK 33

64. Pappu
65. Bhoom, local gangster
66. Gyani, student
67. Mohhamed, bicycle shop-owner
68. Birju
69. Zakir
70. Kamal Singh, rickshaw-owner
71. Munshi
72. Rashid, cycle Rickshaw shop-owner in block 32
98. Ganapt, shop-owner
99. Piriya, Gujarati
100. Gurbat Bhai
101. Islam
102. Rao
103. Changa Doctor
104. Omi three-wheeler driver
105. Garib Das
106. Dharmanand, kerosene-shop owner

BLOCK A-5

107. Hasla Ram
108. Mangla
109. Satbir
110. Salam

BLOCK B-1

111. Pal Brahman
112. Shambhu
113. Kheesamvaija
114. Kumar

BLOCK C-3

115. Gopal and brother
116. Tiwari
117. Raghubir and Bangi
118. Pratap Bhangi
119. Vajuje

BLOCK C-4

120. Barji Lal and his son
121. Kala Ram and his two son
122. Prem Singh Muchiwala, property dealer
123. Jai Kishen Bhangi
124. Danny
125. Pappu
126. Mohan Lal, son of Thekedar Komal

BLOCK P-3

127. Taar Chand, Carpenter
128. Master, kerosene shop-owner
129. Radhe Shyam, mechanic
130. Babu Lal, vegetable-seller
131. Sikander’s brother
132. Gulab Singh, godown-owner

MONGOL PURI

133. Hardwari Lal, Mandal Pradhan
134. Narendra Singh, Congress (I) worker
135. Salim Quereshi, Congress (I) worker
136. Shaukeen, Congress (I) worker
137. Rajinder
138. Shiv Charan

MAUJPUR, GHONDA

140. Biro Joginer, kerosene shop owner
141. Trilok, flour mill-owner
142. Gupta, paper-seller
143. Delu Ram, tailor
144. Bhola Doodhwala
145. Balbir Doodhwala’s son
146. Prem Nai
147. Gyan Malwai
148. Natgayan’s son

SHAKAR PUR

150. Bhatia, Congress (I) worker
151. Dogra, Congress (I) worker
152. Singh, Congress (I) worker
153. Lakshmi dhoban
154. Aswani, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) worker
155. Satpal, hotel-owner
156. Ashok Kumar, flour mill-owner
157. Ram Niwas Sharma
158. Rohtas Singh of Shkarpur village

KHAJURI KHAAS

159. Kadam Singh, Panchayat Chief
160. Kadam Singh’s nephews
161. Nambat Singh, ration shop-owner
162. Sham Lal, retired assistant sub-inspector
163. Jai Singh, kerosene shop-owner
164. Jugnu
165. Parsa

JANAKPURI

166. Pratap, Chief of the village administrative body, Sagarpur, who is alleged to have killed 22 people

BLOCK C

167. Dabbu Bhangi
168. Kalia Bhangi
169. Upli Bhangi
170. Son Sassi
171. Mohan Sassi
172. Raju Bhangi
173. Malaram, who distributed kerosene oil free to the killers

MANDAVALI-UNCHPUR

175. Sachdeva, property-dealer
176. Raj Kalia, cement-seller
177. Gupta, grocery shop-owner
178. Ram Prakash, worker in a khadi shop
179. Dharampal
180. Kishen Dutt
181. Babu Das
182. Joshi

RAJ NAGAR

183. Balwant Khokar
184. Mohinder Singh Baragdola
185. Iswar Chand Sharma
186. Pandit Ram Niwas
187. Pandit Tara Chand

SADAR BAZAR

188. Kamal Dhobi
189. David, son of the Dhobi
190. Vinayak and his family members

AZAADPUR INDUSTRIAL AREA.

191. T S Bedi, factory owner

POLITICIANS

This list includes people who instigated violence and later protected the criminals

H K L BHAGAT, Information and Broadcasting Minister
It is learnt that he influenced the decision to release some mobsters from the Shahadra Police station on November 5.

BABURAM SHARMA, Municipal Corporation Member (Ward No. 58)
He is a confidant of Mr. Bhagat’s. The allegations against him are : He led the violent mob on a motorbike and mike in hand and is responsible for killings in Baabarpur, Chajupur, Maujpur and Ghonda in East Delhi.

SAJJAN KUMAR, Congress (I) MP
It is alleged that he gave a hundred rupees and a liquor bottle each to the killers.

LALIT MAKEN, Congress (I) Party Trade Union Leader and Metropolitan Councillor.
It is alleged that he distributed money and liquor bottles to the mob and an Ambassador car, said to be his, was seen at Azadpur on Grand Trunk road four times during the violence and the mobs were given instructions by the car occupants.

DHARAMDAS SHASHTRI, Congress (I) MP from Karol Bagh
He is alleged to have provided the list of Sikh houses and shops with electoral roll as the source. According to press reports of November 5, 1984, he is also alleged to have pressurised police officials in Karol Bagh police station to release from custody those arrested for the anti-Sikh violence.

JAGDISH TYTLER, Congress (I) MP.
He intruded into press conference of the Police Commissioner, Mr. S C Tondon, on November 6 and told him, by arresting my men you are obstructing the relief work for the victims.

MAHENDERA SINGH, Metropolitan Councillor.
It is alleged that he, alongwith Dharamdas Shastri, was seen going around with electoral rolls (used to identify Sikh houses) in Prakash nagar.

MANGATRAM SINGAL, Municipal Corporation Member, (Ward No.32)
He is alleged to have been in the company of Dharmadas Shastri during the violence.

Dr. ASHOK KUMAR, Municipal Corporation Member, Kalyanpuri.
It is alleged that violence was sparked off after he held a meeting with Congress workers and supporters and that he was leading the crowd which indulged in large scale violence, including, killing, burning, looting and gang-rape of women.

SUKHANLAL SOOD, Metropolitan Councillor.
Eye witness accounts allege that he led the violent mob and that he brought lists of Sikh houses and petrol (used to burn Sikhs alive) to the scene of violence. Later, when he went to the Shakarpur relief camp to distribute food AND sweets to the survivors, some women recognised him and had him chased out of the camp.

JAGDISH CHANDER TOKAS, Municipal Corporation Member, Munirka, Ward NO. 14.
He is alleged to have led the violent mob in sector 4 and 5 of R. K. PURAM.

ISHWAR SINGH, Municipal Corporation Member, Mongolpuri, Ward NO. 37.
He is alleged to have led the violent mob in Mongolpuri.

BALWANT KHOKAR, Youth Congress (I) Leader, Delhi.
He is alleged to have instigated the violent mob in Palam Colony.

FAIZ MOHAMMED, Youth Congress (I) Leader, Delhi.
Survivors in the Shakarpur relief camp and residents of Mongolpuri say that he was directly involved in the violence.

RATTAN, Delhi Youth Congress (I) Leader.
He is alleged to have been directly involved in the Palam Colony violence.

SATBIR SINGH, Youth Congress (I) Member.
He is alleged to have brought a busload of criminals to Guru Harkishen School in Munirka and participated in looting and burning the school down.

POLICE

This list includes police officials who ignored their duty, instigated violence and were directly involved in it.

MALHOTRA, Assistant Commissioner Police East Delhi.
He is alleged to have called the mob to the police station and told it that It “should have demolished the gurudwara as well (the mob killed……? Bhatia, a Sikh Congress worker). Besides, Malhotra is alleged to have accompanied the mob to the scene of violence. He was in a jeep, armed with a revolver, accompanied by two sten-gun wielding cops. Following him were two station wagons in which cans of petrol were kept. He is said to have handed over weapons to the mob and instigated the mob that came to the police station from Gurunangal Nagar and Lakshminagar.

JAI SINGH, SHO.
He is alleged to have told the mobs that they “have three days to kill and loot, free for all.”

RAVRAM MEHAR, SHO, Shankarpur.
He is alleged to have identified Sikh houses and shops.

HARIRAM BHATTI, SHO, Sultanpuri.
He is alleged to have disarmed Sikhs of their small weapons of defence and On November 2, personally killed some Sikhs. Also , on November 3 and 4, he made Sikh men cut their hair on gunpoint.

ROHTAS SINGH, SHO, Sadar.
He is alleged to have personally indulged in burning down Sikh houses.

SHOORVIR SINGH, SHO, Kalyanpuri.
He reached Trilokpuri at 2.30 p.m. on November 1 when violence was on, is alleged to have ordered two constables on duty there to go away, thus giving the mob a free hand at violence.

R.D. SINGH, Sub-Inspector, Durgapuri.
According to survivors in the Loni Road, Gurudwara relief camp, Singh instigated the mob and personally beat to death some Sikhs.

SHO, R.K. Puram and Constable on duty.
When people from Sector 4 asked the duo for help to save a Sikh family in their area are alleged to have denied help and goes on to say, ” Sikhs should be finished.”

Following is a list of police officials who instigated and participated in the violence in the areas under their control.

TYAGI, SHO, Trilokpuri
RANA, Inspector, Trilokpuri
MOOLCHAND, Sub-Inspector, Trilokpuri
BAKSHI, Assistant Sub-Inspector, Trilokpuri
RAJVIR SINGH, Head Constable, Kalyanpuri (posted in Trilokpuri)


- source: Sarkari Qatl-e-aam by Sardar Gurcharan Singh Babbar


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 22:15 
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yup , valmikis and bhangis are the same.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 22:50 
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Indian Mujahideen-What are we doing?

Quote:
Masterminds: From left: Riyaz Bhatkal, Iqbal Bhatkal, Abdus Subhan, Safdar Nagori

We have seen arrests galore and the police from each state has a different version to the working of the Indian Mujahideen. On one hand after a couple of arrests the police claim that they have cracked a particular case, but the matter never seems to reach the logical end when the battle for conviction is fought before the court.

Looking at the various cases that are being handled by the police departments one could easily say that the conviction rate has been a zero and this is not a pretty picture that is being painted.

Look at the manner in which the events have unfolded in the year 2012. The year began with the Delhi police arresting four IM operatives who according to the police had confessed that they had executed the Chinnaswamy stadium blasts in Bangalore. Then came another revelation that 13/7 blasts were executed by a module led by Yaseen Bhatkal. Ironically this is not something that the Maharashtra ATS agreed with and continues with their own probe into the case.

After this 7 seven members of the IM were arrested in Tamil Nadu and it was claimed that Yaseen managed to give the slip. This was then followed by the arrest of Habib Phalai in Uttar Pradesh and he was made an accused in the Ahmadabad serial blasts case. During these investigations the police claimed that the IM had planned on targeting various high profile institutions such as the BARC and also the DRDO.

A couple of weeks later the police claimed that two IM operatives Salman and Shahzad had confessed to their role in the Delhi serial blasts and had procured explosives through Karnataka.

There were a couple more arrests and these were in connection with the Bangalore serial blasts case and also the Ahmadabad blasts case. This was followed up by the arrests of Mohammad Anjuman in connection with the Jama Masjid case, Talha Abdali for being the founder member of the IM and Mohammad Kafeel for being a recruiter.

Today the Maharashtra ATS which has carried out a couple of arrests claims that these youth were linked to the Gujarat blasts and had also planned on carrying out the assassinations of the three judges who delivered the verdict in the Ayodhya title suit case.

While these arrests look good on paper the question that one needs to ask if we have managed to solve the real problem of terrorism. There have been mixed reactions to these arrests. Some have been genuine one and some a case of mistake identity. The real battle according to experts will be won only when the police convert the arrests into convictions in courts. The police were caught in a very embarrassing situation during the Mecca Masjid case when all the youth that they had apprehended were cleared by the court.

A senior police officer says that in the court there are documents of proof which are sought and more often than not the police are unable to provide the same. Cases have started off on one theory and as the years go by the theory begins to change and by the time the matter reaches the court the prosecution has hardly a case on them. A member of the prosecution too points out that more often than not the police has theory on them and this is not good enough in the courts.

The police have found themselves groping for answers on the modus operandi and also the forensic evidence which they have not been able to prove before the court. One problem is that they take too long to understand the case and by the time the arrests are carried out most of the proof would have vanished. It has happened in all the recent cases of terrorism that the country has been rocked with. The problem begins with sharing of intelligence. We have seen many a time the blame game which occurs post every terrorist attack. However once the damage is done there is utter confusion and police teams have on most ocassions not coordinated and have worked independently. Some feel that the introduction of an NCTC may actually do the job as there is a dire need for terrorism probes to be more centralised in nature as it does not lead to any confusion.

Looking at the case of the IM one can see how the theories have been floated and also the manner in which a new version comes out with each arrest. In the past five years we have seen at least 5 different masterminds of the outfit. It started with Safdar Nagori who started the radical SIMI which turned into the IM. Then came Riyaz Bhatkal who was followed by Abdus Subhan. While Riyaz’s name did the rounds for sometime, the police then went on to state that the organisation was taken over by Iqbal Bhatkal. However today the name on everyone’s lips is Yaseen Bhatkal. Barring Nagori, the rest are all absconding and at the end of each probe the police take the name of the mastermind and wind up by stating that once he is arrested the case would attain a closure.

Have the police probed these incidents in a lazy manner or has the IM outwitted them? It could be a case of both. Looking at the manner in which the police are looking into these cases it is evident that they have not understood the modus operandi of the IM entirely. The IM too has surfaced in bits and pieces and has safeguarded their main persons with aliases such as Sharukh Khan which was used by three members. In addition to this the police are also faced with a major problem when one of these operatives leave the country immediately after an attack. Finding an IM member in Pakistan is as good as impossible and the probe comes to a stand still in such an event.

A senior official says that in order to bust such groups there is a dire need for immediate reaction. We need to seriously build up a thorough data base on such elements. A mere ban will not be enough and that comes more into play when these members are running in between countries. An outfit like the IM creates more of a problem from within the country and hence our home security, coordination and intelligence sharing ought to be intact in order to convert the arrests into convictions.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 22:58 
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Maybe the theories are all correct. It could be a leadership in transition. The fact that the IM leaders run to TSP shows the hand of an intelligence network in organizing the IM gang.
The police are treating it as crime while its an intel/covert op of irregular warfare run from TSP using local elements.
And the constant speeches by Doggy Singh also makes it suspect.


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PostPosted: 30 Mar 2012 04:46 
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Kerala fishermen's killings: Italian ship may leave against Rs 3 crore bond
TOILET reports-

Quote:
Nearly six weeks after marines on board the Enrica Lexie killed two fishermen, mistaking them for pirates, the Kerala high court on Thursday cleared the decks for Italian tanker Enrica Lexie to leave Kochi if the ship's owners furnished a bond of Rs 3 crore.

Quote:
The Italian marines, however, were still under arrest, pending further hearings of the tria


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 07:15 
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Quote:
Grim details of the communal violence in Sangareddy town of Medak district in Andhra Pradesh were slowly emerging as the people of the town were yet to recover from the shocking incidents which started unfolding on Thursday night.

In communal clashes, which broke out on Thrusday night after the publication of a distorted and disfigured photo of a religious place allegedly by BJP activist Pavan Kumar Mudiraj on a social media website, the organised gangs of miscreants went on rampage in different parts of town targeting the houses, shops and other properties of one community.

Even before the police could move in, dozens of shops and vehicles were set ablaze and the groups of people were indulging in pitched battles with stones. More than a dozen people were injured, the police said...

The miscreant had uploaded a photo of Kaaba, the holy place of Muslims in Mecca, Saudi Arabia with a provocative caption. Local people, who saw it on Facebook, downloaded it and handed it over to the local police with a complaint on Thursday.

Later, while Muslims were staging a protest outside the police station, some miscreants indulged in stone pelting leading to the violence...

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... id=twshare

"miscreant", so uploading photos makes you one now as long you belong to the detested kaffir/heathen society.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 08:09 
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So downloading distorted picture is not haram?


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 08:16 
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^^Or even looking at it. Malaysia banned trading on internet and Pak banned search engines. There are some obscure KSA source fatwas against viewing pictures on the internet.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 09:52 
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So those who saw it on Facebook need to suffer hundred lashes for seeing and printing haraam stuff?


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 10:02 
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Who let him in ?

Abolish ‘draconian’ AFSPA law, UN expert tells India
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NEW DELHI: A United Nations expert has urged India to repeal a law that gives its military sweeping powers to act in troubled areas like the Himalayan Kashmir region and parts of the insurgency-wracked northeast.
Christof Heyns, the UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions told reporters in New Delhi on Friday that the Armed Forces Special Powers Act allows the state to override rights and has no role in a democracy.Under the law, troops have the right to shoot anyone suspected of being a rebel and to arrest suspected militants without a warrant.“This law has been described to me as ‘hated,’ and a member of a state human rights commission has called it draconian,” said Heyns, who travelled through Kashmir and the states of Gujarat, Kerala, Assam and West Bengal for two weeks ahead of Friday’s press conference.There was no immediate comment from the Indian government.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 12:59 
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The ruling Elite in this country who want to put the Miltary in its place, along with a majority of the population.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 13:55 
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Bidari worse than Saddam, Gaddafi, rules Karnataka High Court

Quote:
The bench struck down Bidari’s contentions “absolving himself of the responsibility” of atrocities by stating he was only deputy commander of the Joint Task Force of Karnataka and Tamil Nadu to nab Veerappan and not “omnipresent and omnipotent like Saddam Hussain or Muammar Gaddafi.” “Though he was not one of them, if what the two women (tribals) have said in their affidavit is true, he is worse than them (Saddam Hussain and Muammar Gadaffi),” the court said in its acerbic observations.
The bench also came down heavily on the state. The chief minister, it said, should have studied the NHRC report before appointing Bidari.

Do our judges even think about they are saying before they blurt out stuff like this, esp when the reciever is a DGP rank person?

Country really seems to be going down the drain rapidly...


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 17:37 
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http://www.firstpost.com/world/have-ind ... 61894.html

Quote:
Fai used ISI funds to pick and chose his Indian guests based on their “progressive views” on Kashmir. Those whose positions were closest to that of the separatists were called for his conferences along with a few whose views were essentially pro-human rights. But they were “useful idiots” to call in order to tell American lawmakers that India had no case in Kashmir.

No one on Fai’s guest list was ever remotely critical of the separatists. This is how the ISI used Fai to “manufacture” an Indian liberal consensus that coincided with the Pakistani policy on Kashmir. Unwittingly – or even wittingly – our liberals served the ISI’s cause.

Fai, in fact, chose his people carefully to prove that the backers of the Kashmiri cause were not “ordinary” bleeding hearts, but people with clout.

For example, Justice Rajinder Sachar was commissioned by the UPA to author a report on the socio-economic plight of Muslims in India.

Dileep Padgaonkar was one of Manmohan Singh’s three interlocutors on Jammu & Kashmir.

Then there were people like Rita Manchanda, local partner of the India/Pakistan Women Waging Peace movement, Ved Bhasin, Editor of Kashmir Times, Gautam Navlakha, Kamal Chenoy and Praful Bidwai, rights activists and writers.

But have Indian liberals learned anything from their embarrassing association with Fai? It does not appear so. Some 53 of them, in fact, wrote a letter asking the US court which convicted Fai to show him leniency.

Among the writers were Rajmohan Gandhi, grandson of Mahatma Gandhi, Ved Bhasin and Gautam Navlakha.

While Rajmohan Gandhi is a peacenik in the Gandhi mould, the US attorney who sought Fai’s sentencing, in fact, suggested that Navlakha was “introduced to an ISI general for recruitment by Fai at ISI’s direction.” (Read this and this)

Navlakha has, of course, rubbished this, but his views on Kashmir are clearly unbalanced against India. In fact, he only thought it was “politically unwise” of Fai for having taken ISI money and did not need to “feign personal hurt or anger” at Fai on this count.

He went further, and claimed that the US law enforcement authorities had “magnified” the “crime that Fai sahib committed” by not disclosing where he got his money. He complimented Fai for doing “marvelous and effective lobbying” on the $3.5 million he received from the ISI. Says Navlakha: “Put it another way, Fai Sahib used the limited resources to good use.”

To rub it in, Navlakha even goes on to suggest that Fai may have been “set up by US agencies or done in at the behest of India…”. (Read his whole statement here).

Navlakha is no liberal. He is just wedded to the mob financed by the ISI. One hopes the other liberals who wanted spared Fai are not in the same boat. At the very least, they must look at the colour of the money they accept so willingly.



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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 20:32 
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sum wrote:
Do our judges even think about they are saying before they blurt out stuff like this, esp when the reciever is a DGP rank person?

Country really seems to be going down the drain rapidly...

Apparently Infant is senior to Bidari and was bypassed after Yeddy listened to the advise of a seer. The seer and Bidari are supposed to be close. Anyhow Bidari is supposed to retire in a month's time and Infant in a couple of months.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 21:39 
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^^ All that is Ok, Bhat-avare ( normal politiking like for any significant post in Desh) but comparing a DGP with 35 years of service to the state with Saddam and Qadhaffi? Really?


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2012 03:47 
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Delhi in touch with Iran, seeks access to attack suspects


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2012 06:38 
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sum wrote:
^^ All that is Ok, Bhat-avare ( normal politiking like for any significant post in Desh) but comparing a DGP with 35 years of service to the state with Saddam and Qadhaffi? Really?

AFAIK Bidari bought upon the comparison on himself. Court just ended up disagreeing with him. :)

edit: found it.
Quote:
The bench struck down Bidari’s contentions “absolving himself of the responsibility” of atrocities by stating he was only deputy commander of the Joint Task Force of Karnataka and Tamil Nadu to nab Veerappan and not “omnipresent and omnipotent like Saddam Hussain or Muammar Gaddafi.” “Though he was not one of them, if what the two women (tribals) have said in their affidavit is true, he is worse than them (Saddam Hussain and Muammar Gadaffi),” the court said in its acerbic observations.
The bench also came down heavily on the state. The chief minister, it said, should have studied the NHRC report before appointing Bidari.

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/repor ... rt_1669700
Using rhetoric to defend oneself in the court of law is not a good idea. IMHO an IPS officer should have known better. :wink:


Last edited by pgbhat on 01 Apr 2012 07:01, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2012 06:59 
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sum wrote:
Bidari worse than Saddam, Gaddafi, rules Karnataka High Court

Quote:
The bench struck down Bidari’s contentions “absolving himself of the responsibility” of atrocities by stating he was only deputy commander of the Joint Task Force of Karnataka and Tamil Nadu to nab Veerappan and not “omnipresent and omnipotent like Saddam Hussain or Muammar Gaddafi.” “Though he was not one of them, if what the two women (tribals) have said in their affidavit is true, he is worse than them (Saddam Hussain and Muammar Gadaffi),” the court said in its acerbic observations.
The bench also came down heavily on the state. The chief minister, it said, should have studied the NHRC report before appointing Bidari.

Do our judges even think about they are saying before they blurt out stuff like this, esp when the reciever is a DGP rank person?

Country really seems to be going down the drain rapidly...



Another case of "gentlemen" trying to secure cushy post retirement benefits??


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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 01:55 
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Quote:
Posted on Apr 01, 2012 at 08:26pm IST
Ahmedabad: 14-year-old girl gangraped, four arrested

Ahmedabad: Four persons have been arrested for allegedly gangraping a 14-year-old girl in Viramgam town of the district, police said on Sunday.
The incident came to light on Saturday, when the girl's parents filed an FIR and based on the information given by the girl, three persons were immediately arrested, they said.
According to police, the fourth accused was arrested on Sunday and was taken to the city civil hospital for medical testing. Police have not divulged the name of the accused.

According to police, the victim, who is studying in class 9 had gone to borrow a notebook from her friend on Friday afternoon, when four youths came in an autorickshaw and abducted her.
They took her to a secluded place and raped the girl. Following this, they threatened the girl of dire consequences if she revealed the incident to anyone, and then let her off near her house, police said.
The girl, who was traumatised due to the incident, did not tell about it to anybody. However, when she started suffering from health problems, she broke down before her mother and narrated the incident to her.
Following this, the girl's parents lodged an FIR yesterday and three accused were immediately arrested.
Police said that tension gripped the small town with people gathering at the police station, as the girl belonged to a majority community, while the accused were from the minority community.
However, the situation has been brought under control.


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/ahmedabad-14 ... 780-3.html

Translation: 4 Muslim men allegedly gang raped a 14 year old Hindu girl.


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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 04:19 
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So only in India that rape perpetrators names are concealed from public scrutiny. In above case the rape victim was not only a minor but also from the majority community. Is this a case of hate crime by the minority community? Sine four persons were there is it a dacoity?


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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 05:21 
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Deoband: Nikah with non-Muslim girl without conversion illegal

----

A few days ago we were discussing how communal riots start when religious processions are pelted with stones/bottles.

Image

From the Indian Express


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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 14:59 
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Were there Ramnavmi processons in Hyd this year?


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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 15:26 
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yes it was

'Shobha yatra' passes off peacefully

Quote:
TDP Corporator Raja Singh organised the yatra in coordination with the Sri Rama Utsav Samithi.

The rally passed through the main thoroughfares of Mangalhat, Jummerat Bazaar, Begum Bazaar Chatri, Siddiam Bazaar, Gowliguda and culminated at Hanuman Vyayamshala, Koti.

SLOGANS

Right from dawn, the streets reverberated with “Jai Sri Ram” slogans with many youth welfare organisations playing devotional songs through music systems. Free food distribution programmes and special ‘bhajans' were also organised all along the procession route.

A 10-foot high Lord Sri Rama idol was prepared for the occasion and it turned out to be the cynosure of all eyes at the event.


Security beefed up for Sri Ramanavami procession

Looks like INC realized if their Proxy Owasi acted on his threats they will be wiped out in AP.

Meanwhile,

4 injured in clash during Ram Navami rally in GAYA

Quote:
The clash broke out when a group of people, standing on roofs, pelted stones at the processionists, a police official said.


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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 18:04 
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Meanwhile Slavery goes on in this Nation

3 ‘runaway brides’ in 3 months for Jaipur man

Previously it was BD women sold in UP. Sad but this sort of Human trafficking needs serious attention.

Quote:
It took 47-year-old Gordhan Lal, a resident of Pali town, three marriages and over Rs 2.50 lakh cash to understand that taking help of human trafficking gangs for settling down in life was quite a costly affair.

He bought three women from human trafficking gangs over the past three months and in all the cases, the brides ran away a few days after the wedlock.


Quote:
The last one who had fled earlier this week was traced to Ajmer by police on Sunday and handed over to him, but he approached the cops demanding action against members of the trafficking gang who duped him by "selling" him a woman from Maharashtra.


WTF! Cops hand over an adult against her will- this is crap!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: \\

Governance in this country hits a new low!

Quote:
"After getting the complaint, we launched an investigation and it came up that he has repeatedly been fooled by human trafficking gangs. On the basis of some technical investigation, we traced his life wife in Ajmer. She had gone there via Jodhpur and was not intending to return," the officer said.


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