Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

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Johann
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Johann »

anupmisra wrote:How would you break this "news" (of allocating limited engineering and management seats in hard-to-get into institutions to the children of your enemies) to well-deserving Indian candidates who otherwise could be a boon to your nation in the future?
Since the GoI claims the territory, and these are long, long established communities that would make them Indians, right?

You might as well start treating them as such. Most people from Gilgit-Baltistan are Ismailis in a remote place, and they've had a lot of frustrations with an over-centralised Sunni Pakistan.

They are probably not going to be super keen on the Chinese either.
saip
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by saip »

Didnt China say something like this about Arunachal Pradesh. Some thing about they not needing visas as they are considered chinese? Likewise India can say that as the oppressed people of paki occupied Kashmir they r considered Indians and so they can join IIts etc.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by pgbhat »

Stumbled upon this in the PoK news digest on IDSA.
A very significant development captured in one of the reports in this issue, especially from the point of India, is US having committed to fund the controversial Diamer Bhasha dam. The construction of the said dam has ever since been embroiled in problems owing several pertinent concerning the local population- problems of inundation of agricultural land, submergence of archaeological sites and the construction site being situated in a high risk seismic zone. In July 2010, the World Bank refused to fund the dam citing the territory is claimed by India. A little later, the Asian Development Bank (ADB) declined to provide the finances in 2011.
SOURCE
arun
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by arun »

^^^ X Posted from the IWT thread.

The ADB seems to have changed its mind less than a week back:

Energy boost: ADB offers $4.5b for Diamer-Bhasha dam

By Shahbaz Rana Published: May 26, 2011

ISLAMABAD:

The Asian Development Bank (ADB) on Wednesday formally conveyed to Pakistan that the bank will give $4.5 billion for the construction of Diamer-Bhasha Dam to address the issue of water storage capacity and boost hydropower generation capacity.

The formal commitment was given by ADB’s Director General Central West Asian Department Juan Miranda at the conclusion of a two-day visit to Pakistan………………

The Express Tribune
saadhak
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by saadhak »

1. From SAAG -- Sham elections in POK
2. Excerpts from an earlier rediff article http://www.rediff.com/news/special/spec ... 110623.htm
Elections for 41 general seats of the "AJK" (Azad JK, as POK is referred to across the border) legislative assembly are scheduled to be held on Sunday and in the election battleground of internet and newspapers, political leaders and activists are discussing the conduct of "free and fair polls."
There is only one woman candidate out of the 400 in the electoral fray in which around three million voters are expected to exercise their franchise.
The Muslim Conference, the ruling party, is struggling to retain power in the face of the Pakistan Peoples Party and the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz showing a renewed strength. The elections are being massively influenced by the Mirpuris living in Bradford, Birmingham, Nottingham and Southall areas of Britain who are currently running a bitter campaign. Some of them are objecting to the ideology of 'Kashmir banega Pakistan' and have started pages on Facebook to campaign against it.
This election is important for Pakistan in view of the recently-conducted local self-government poll in Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] in which the people participated overwhelmingly.
SSridhar
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

New PoK PM
Chaudhry Abdul Majeed took oath as the new prime minister of PoK. . . . The defeated candidate, Raja Farooq Haider, strongly criticised “rigging in political process” and demanded of the new government to take stern action against those government officials who took part in the election process and “launched a movement against the PML-N candidates.”
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ManuT »

We've Asked China to Stop Work in PoK: Antony

Expressing concern over Chinese activities in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK), India today said it has asked Beijing to stop its infrastructure development work there.

"The government is aware that China is undertaking infrastructure projects in PoK. We have conveyed our concerns to China about their activities in PoK and asked them to cease such activities," Defence Minister A K Antony told the Lok Sabha in written reply to a question.

BR news feed
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=15181
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Rudradev »

SSridhar wrote:New PoK PM
Chaudhry Abdul Majeed took oath as the new prime minister of PoK. . . . The defeated candidate, Raja Farooq Haider, strongly criticised “rigging in political process” and demanded of the new government to take stern action against those government officials who took part in the election process and “launched a movement against the PML-N candidates.”
There were two of Photochor Khan's "scientists" named Bashiruddin Mahmood and Chaudhry Abdul Majeed, who were implicated as having links with Al Qaeda at the time the proliferation to Iran and NoKo became public news. Is this POK PM the same Chaudhry Abdul Majeed?
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ManishH »

Anti-militant protests in PoK
Protests over renewed militant activity have been held in the Neelum Valley region of Pakistani-administered Kashmir, the BBC has learned.

Locals say that Pakistan-based militants are flocking to the area and crossing into Indian-administered Kashmir to launch attacks there.

During a congregation to mark the holy festival of Eid on 31 August, residents of the town of Athmuqam passed a resolution which declared that any attempt to disrupt peace in the area would be resisted by the people.

A week later, two large demonstrations were held in Athmuqam to protest against the influx of militants.

On Tuesday, hundreds of school children held another protest march in the town, submitting a list of demands to officials at a military camp.

Locals told our correspondent that the language and dress of most of the militants coming to the area suggests that they are from the Punjab province of Pakistan.
SSridhar
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Rudradev wrote:Is this POK PM the same Chaudhry Abdul Majeed?
No. That was Dr. Abdul Majeed who was killed about 5 years back by the ISI.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ManishH »

US removes map showing PoK as part of Pakistan
Washington: The US State Department has removed “inaccurate” maps of India and Pakistan from its website which did not reflect the correct boundary and geographical locations.

“We have taken the map (of India) off the website. It did contain some inaccuracies which were associated with the boundaries of some geographic features,” State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland told reporters at a news conference yesterday.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

Pakistan Occupied Kashmir : Changing the Discourse
RECOMMENDATIONS
Keeping the above facts in view, the following recommendations are being made:
1. In accordance with the Parliamentary Resolution on Kashmir 1994, India should openly claim its rightful position on PoK in international fora and denounce Pakistan's illegal occupation of the territory by aggression in 1947.

2. India should also bring to the notice of the world the gross human rights violations in PoK and expose the policies of the Pakistani state towards AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan. India should publicize widely the lack of democracy in the political processes underway in PoK to counter Pakistan's false propaganda in the Kashmir valley.

3. The discourse on autonomy in J&K needs to be analysed in the context of what is taking place across the LoC in PoK. In J&K, the raging debate on autonomy and self rule shows that there is freedom of thought and expression and people can openly agree/disagree with the governments they choose. However, this is hardly the case in PoK where the term 'Azadi' does not go beyond the name Azad Kashmir.

4. The Indian government should come out with a 'White Paper' on PoK to convey a clear and explicit message to Pakistan that it is in illegal occupation of the region. Notably, at the international level many people are watching India's moves in the light of rising presence of China and militant activities in PoK.

5. A similar message needs to be conveyed to China which is seeking to fulfil its strategic objectives by involving itself in developmental projects in PoK. China's role in PoK is totally unjustified in line with China's stand that Kashmir is a disputed territory. China should be made to explain as to why it is engaging itself in developmental works in a region, that is claimed by India, without its consent.

6. PoK has a lot of strategic significance for India: it is the gateway to Central Asia through the Wakhan Corridor and at the same time it has rich water resources. Thus, there is greater need for India to take a more proactive approach on PoK, not only because it is a part of its territory but because of the high strategic stakes.

7. There should be more conferences and publication of factual reportsonPoKtorevisit theentireissue.Indianstrategicanalysts should build future scenarios on PoK. For instance, IDSA is in the process of bringing out a compilation of key documents on PoK which could be a ready reckoner for issues relating to PoK.

8. Indian government should provide scholarships to students from PoK and engage the people in PoK including the diaspora especially those based in the West. It may also consider filling up the seats reserved for the people in PoK in the J&K Assembly through representatives from the diaspora.

9. The people of PoK should be regarded as citizens of India and special documents should be issued to them in this regard. They may be allowed to visit India after proper check of their antecedents.

10. India must engage the new emerging political leadership in PoK which is disillusioned with Pakistan's approach towards the people of PoK and demanding genuine representative and popular system of governance for them. India needs to be responsive to the pro-India political actors in PoK and nurture them, rather than adopt a defensive approach towards them.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... s-illusion
In Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, residents see experiment with autonomy as 'illusion'
Gilgit, Pakistan
Baba Jan, a 30-something political activist from Gilgit Baltistan in northeast Kashmir, was jailed by Pakistani police in mid-September for inciting unrest, considered terrorism. From jail, where he was imprisoned along with about 50 other political workers, Mr. Jan claims the real reason for his detention and indefinite extension has to do with his politics: Jan’s Labor Party actively demands greater autonomy and a referendum on independence for Gilgit-Baltistan, which lies in disputed Kashmir. Pakistan doesn’t want that.“We want our assembly to decide whether to join China, Pakistan, or India – but I’d prefer independence,” says Jan. “Why join a country that uses terrorism in the name of Islam? No human rights, no political rights and no free judges. No one wants to stay with this country and that’s why the intelligence agencies hound us.”We don’t control any of our own income generating ministries – tourism, forestry, water and power, gems, or commerce and works,” says Nawaz Khan Naji, founder and president of the Balawaristan National Front.'Autonomy is an illusion'
Autonomy is an illusion, he says, because Gilgit-Baltistan has not been formally recognized as a province in Pakistan’s constitution. It is governed according to a “colonial system” by Islamabad-appointed bureaucrats under a council headed by Pakistani Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani. Naji’s party goes further than the Labour Party and demands outright independence.The territory, known for its towering mountains (including K2) and beautiful lakes, was ceded to Pakistan on Nov. 1, 1947, following a three-month struggle against the Hindu Maharaja of Kashmir who at the time controlled the entire state of Kashmir.But the Pakistani government chose to govern both Gilgit-Baltistan and Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) directly rather than grant them provincial status in the hope that one day a referendum would be carried out across both Pakistani and Indian Kashmir so that the territory could chose to join either Pakistan or India.
Multiple intelligence agents who approached the Monitor during the reporting of this piece were adamant that the separatists are in fact backed by Indian money and garner little support beyond college students and minor leftwing parties.'Dangerous for changing mindsets'But Mr. Naji, the BNF founder, denies that’s the case. “I’m not funded by a foreign hand but the establishment feel I’m dangerous for changing mindsets,” he says. According to Naji, the region’s geo-strategic importance could bring its citizens greater prosperity if it were to cede from Pakistan. “We want to create an Asian Switzerland that is friends to all nations but remains neutral. We can link China to the Gulf and India to Central Asia,” he says, as well as expand tourism and free itself of sectarian violence that Pakistan has brought with it.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

SSridhar wrote:
Rudradev wrote:Is this POK PM the same Chaudhry Abdul Majeed?
No. That was Dr. Abdul Majeed who was killed about 5 years back by the ISI.

:rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Vipul »

Help Pakistani Kashmiris' 'freedom struggle', India urged.

There is simmering discontent among Pakistani Kashmiris against Islamabad's misrule, activists from the region said Wednesday, urging India to shun its ''defensive'' Kashmir policy.

"Azad Kashmir (as Islamabad terms Pakistan-administered Kashmir) is free, of course. But free for Pakistanis only," Mumtaz Khan, a Canada-based Pakistani Kashmiri activist, said at a seminar here on the status of the area.

Khan, who heads the International Center For Peace and Democracy (ICFPD) a Canada-based NGO, alleged that no politician could talk independently about the Kashmir issue in Pakistan because it is directly under the military's control.
He said the people of the region, including Gilgit-Baltistan, had pinned their hopes on New Delhi but "India has been defensive in its Kashmir policy".

"This has allowed Pakistan to take an aggressive stance," he said, reminding the Indian government of a parliament resolution saying that Pakistan "must vacate the areas of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, which they have occupied through aggression".

"India has faulted. You have violated your own constitution that says Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir is a disputed territory. You have to demonstrate something practically," the activist said.

Senger Sering, another activist based in Washington and originally from Gilgit Baltistan, said people from his region wanted an independent republic and "that is why Pakistan is treats us worse than enemies".

"There is institutionalized slavery. Pakistan has been eating out our resources and this slavery has been legalized by an ordinance," Sering said, referring to the Gilgit-Baltistan Empowerment and Self Governance Order, 2009.

He alleged that "target killings" were rampant in the strategically located region rich with natural resources, particularly with a great potential for hydroelectricity.

The territory, where China has shown keen investment interest and is in fact developing many hydroelectricity projects and roads, is also a gateway to Central Asia.

But the area is ridden by violent incidents that Islamabad blames of sectarian groups, both Shias and Sunnis.

But Sering denied this, saying: "Target killings are done by mercenaries hired by (Pakistani spy agency) ISI."

"They (killers) are coming from outside," he said.He alleged that the area is hugely militarized and the Pakistan Army controls everything.

"We have a bakery, the only bakery in the region. It is named Askari Bakery but is known as Military Bakery because it is run by the army," he said.

Asking India to engage with activists from Pakistani Kashmir, he added that India should allow a symbolic representation for the region in the Jammu and Kashmir assembly.

"Let some activists be allowed to represent the region in the Kashmir assembly and legislative council," he said, adding this was possible because constitutionally, they are citizens of India.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Rony »

Great game in Kashmir
India has a long history of ignoring Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir. With China entering the fray, can the country afford to follow this policy of indifference? Utpal Kumar talks to two well-known experts from Gilgit-Baltistan



To anyone not knowing much about him, Senge Hasnan Sering would appear to be an easy-going person with a big smile on his face. The president of the Institute of Gilgit-Baltistan Studies in Washington, DC, he is upright, punctual and greets you with a warm namaskar. But underneath this gentle demeanour is a hurt Sering has been carrying for years. “India could have done more for us,” he says. Prod him a little, and he adds: “Constitutionally and legally, Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan are still being claimed by New Delhi. And this claim has been recognised by the international community. This is the reason why Islamabad hasn’t been able to take the unilateral decision to formally merge this region with Pakistan. The Indian Government should have used this legal sanctity to its advantage.”

At this point, Mumtaz Khan, director of the International Centre of Peace and Democracy in Toronto, steps in. “Yes, the people in the region have close ties with Pakistan. But do they have a choice? It’s India’s policy that forced them to look westward. They knew Delhi won’t be doing anything. If India doesn’t even talk about this region, then how can people of Gilgit-Baltistan say they would be part of this country? Pakistan, for wrong or right reasons, has always been there,” he says.

The hurt is obvious. Ever since Pakistan wilily captured this part of Kashmir in 1947-48, the region hasn’t figured much on India’s political radar. Instead, Delhi seems to have made the sanctity of the LoC an article of faith, though Islamabad continues to breach it at the first given opportunity. Even the media hardly talks about it. Interestingly, while weather reports of PTV talk in detail about Srinagar and Gulmarg, the Indian media keeps a steady silence over Gilgit, Skardu and Muzaffarabad, except when it talks about Pakistan-sponsored terrorist camps being run in the region. Maybe we have taken Jawaharlal Nehru’s “not-a-blade-of-grass” comment too seriously.

This moronic status quo could have continued but for the ominous entry of the dragon. There are reports in Pakistani newspapers that Islamabad has agreed to lease Gilgit-Baltistan to Beijing for 50 years. This has alarmed Delhi, which now realises that the land where not a blade of grass grows is actually the region where most Asiatic or even non-Asiatic empires — including the British and the Soviet — played some sort of Great Game for centuries. With a new player in sight, eyeing not only the resource-rich Persian Gulf but also threatening the interests of India and the US, particularly the former, Delhi seems to be in a fix. It’s, however, on the Kashmir issue that the country appears to be more worried.

With Pakistan allegedly ready to swap its role to take the backseat as China exerts itself as a major player in the Kashmir issue, India can’t afford to miss the Gilgit-Baltistan bus this time. At least that’s what Sering and Khan believe. Over to the two experts on Chinese strategic grandstanding, Indian ruinous restraint, Pakistani duplicitous expediency and the ongoing human rights violation in Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir.

What’s your take on the increased Chinese activities in Gilgit-Baltistan?

China has been involved with the region since the early 1950s and the 1960s. First, it occupied 5,180 sq km of Gilgit-Baltistan which Pakistan gifted it in the 1960s. And then in the 1970s, it started working on infrastructure, building roads through Gilgit-Baltistan into Pakistan’s Karakoram Highway. Since then, there have been trade activities and military movements between China and Pakistan through this region. There were also reports of Pakistani missiles being transported through this highway. So, it has been a strategic route used by Beijing for a long time.

In the past 10 years, however, China has realised the need to exploit the resources of West Asia as well as enhance its military/strategic relationship with the Muslim world. And it’s Gilgit-Baltistan that can provide it a short, safe and quick access to Iran, Afghanistan and Arab countries. No wonder, the Chinese are now talking about spending $16-18 billion on a rail line between Pakistan and China through Gilgit-Baltistan. They have built more than 20 tunnels to quicken the time needed to transport humans as well as goods — both civilian and military — between Pakistan and China. It is expected that when this whole road and rail transportation is completed, it will take less than three days to cover the distance between Beijing and the Persian Gulf, whereas right now it takes about two-three weeks. It will allow Beijing to build a strong economic and military/strategic alliance with the Arab world. Also, China is working on increasing the influence of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and is offering membership to other countries. Maybe one day it will be extended to Arab countries.

There are reports in Pakistani newspapers that Islamabad has agreed to lease Gilgit-Baltistan to Beijing for 50 years. Is it true? How is it going to impact the region?

Like many others we too have read these reports. Incidentally, it hasn’t been denied by any side, Government or non-Government, military or civilian. This is strange as they could have just denied the report, especially as it has come from a leading American think tank. Also, Pakistan’s military chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has recently said that the two countries are starting a strategic programme — the Pakistan-China Strategic Programme for Gilgit-Baltistan — in June this year. Eventually it will enable China to have more military presence in the region.

China does understand that having control over Gilgit-Baltistan is important to safeguard its economic and military interests in east Turkistan and Tibet, besides having more access to the Persian Gulf and Afghanistan. And, of course, this will help tighten noose over India
.

Has it something to do with growing rift between America and Pakistan?

Pakistan tries in its own way to play China against the US — and vice versa. But Beijing is pragmatic and believes in pursuing a long-term goal. There are reports that China eventually wants to transform the SCO into an Asian NATO. One also needs to understand that these are the issues of mutual interest for Iran, Pakistan and China. Iran is isolated and the way out of isolation is getting help from China. Beijing wants the Persian Gulf for its strategic and economic growth. As for Pakistan, it is playing the game to extract benefits from the US by using the China card and vice versa. So, Gilgit-Baltistan has today become the focal point of a new ‘Great Game’ being played in the region.

How are the people of POK reacting to the Chinese presence?

We should first understand the perspective of the people of the region, its history and the nature of Pakistan’s control and its use of this territory for terrorism against India. Before 2005, POK was a closed territory. During this time China wasn’t involved with it. But after 2007, Chinese role increased in the area, particularly after negotiations between India and Pakistan during the Musharraf era entered into a more serious phase. China was alarmed by these developments and didn’t want complete breakthrough on the issue. As a result, we witnessed a shift in the Chinese policy vis-à-vis Kashmir as it started issuing visa on a separate sheet of paper. Also, Beijing started calling POK an integral part of Pakistan.

In 2007-08, China jumped onto a reconstruction bandwagon in Gilgit-Baltistan and signed almost 72 projects with Pakistan. Such reconstruction activities, however, are just a Chinese excuse to control the region. China does understand the importance of POK in politico-strategic terms. Now, as the crises have deepened in Pakistan, whether political, economic or strategic, China is alarmed. Tomorrow Pakistan might disintegrate, and China could find India in control of POK, thanks to its historical, constitutional and cultural claims. So, in order to prevent such eventualities, China has registered its presence. If Islamabad disintegrates, Beijing is there to question Delhi’s claims.

There are two schools of opinion in POK: One is nationalist, and the other is pro-Pakistan. Of course, the latter will say what Islamabad will dictate, but the nationalists have a mind of their own. They have sent protest letters to China when it started giving stapled visas to those belonging to Jammu & Kashmir, saying it should do the same for POK. So, the nationalists are quite concerned with the increasing influence of China.

What role do you expect from India?

India has a strong legal case. It should, therefore, bridge the gap between Delhi and the people of POK. Also, it needs to understand that it can’t be ignored. Those who don’t want to be a part with India, they have to talk to India. Those who want to merge with India, they have to talk to India. And even those who want to be independent will have to talk to India. As for Pakistan, it only claims to provide a moral and diplomatic support to the region and its people. That’s what the UN resolution means when it calls Pakistan an outsider. So, this attitude that we have developed in the past 64 years that we will not talk to India or we will only talk through Pakistan won’t work. Pakistan is just a middleman. And it doesn’t want the issue to be resolved.

But to blame people is not right. It’s India’s policy that forced them to look towards Pakistan. They knew that India won’t do anything. If Delhi doesn’t even talk about this region, then how can people of POK say we would be part of India?

Even today many political activists are in jail, but they don’t expect India to stand up for them. This country has to perform its responsibilities — moral, legal, constitutional and even economic. It can give students access to its universities; it can admit patients to its hospitals. India can have trade with Gilgit-Baltistan.

Do you find any change in global perception regarding POK?

To be frank, in the past 10 years whatever changes we have seen at the international level, they are mainly because of China. Otherwise, nobody cared about us. Even India wasn’t bothered about the region.

The fact is that from early times, this region has been strategically important. The valleys between the Karakoram-Hindukush mountains were closely contested by the empires of the Persian Gulf, West Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, China and even Russia. That’s what the British realised: They worked hard to keep the Russians out of it. Khunjerab Pass (in Gilgit), for instance, is today called the Khyber Pass of China, underlining the fact that it is as important for Beijing as Khyber Pass was for the British.

In 2003-2004, for instance, when we talked to Congressmen or think tanks in the US, they would just ask us for a cup of tea and there would be no follow up. The same was the case with Indians. We met so many Indian researchers, professors, politicians, etc, but nothing concrete came out. Thankfully, the attitude has changed in the past five-six years.

What about human rights violations in the region?

Human rights violations are at different levels. At the political level, we don’t have any freedom of political activity, voice or expression. Local people aren’t even allowed to participate in elections. We are ruled by political masters in Islamabad. Intimidation is very much there. The media has been particularly under attack in the last two years. Situation hasn’t been so bad even during Musharraf’s time. It’s no better for political activists: Babajan Hunzai, Manzoor Parwana, Abdul Hamid Khan, among others — they all have been treated shabbily. In many cases, terrorism charges have also been filed against them.

Then there are violations at the cultural level. The identities of the Gilgits, Baltis, Wakhis, Khowars, etc, have existed for thousands of years. They are proud of their culture, their land, their identity. Suddenly, the Wahaabi movement is threatening to uproot the indigenous culture.

Also, there are violations at the economic level. Our natural resources, the decisions over how to exploit them, or how to generate revenue — all these are decided by Islamabad. All our means of production and revenue are controlled by central authorities. Our transit routes are exploited by China and Pakistan. Revenue from the Khunjerab Pass custom check-post goes to Islamabad. Nothing at all is shared with Gilgit-Baltistan.

You have worked for the revival of the local script. Has it made any change?

Our local scripts are fighting a losing battle against the Government-imposed Urdu. We experimented with Persian/Arabic languages, but it didn’t work. When I was in the ninth grade I got in touch with Tibetans who provided money for the project and that’s how we brought up signboards in our local script. If you want to grab attention, you must start with a signboard. That’s what we tried to do. Also, this is what would make Skardu Bazaar different from, say, Peshawar and Karachi.

But since I (Sering) was connected with Tibetans, it became a huge issue. As I worked within the framework of pan-Tibetanism, it annoyed many. I started getting angry letters, saying culture was good but I must not forget that I was a Muslim first. One Prof Fateh Malik, then chairman of the National Language Board, came all the way to Skardu to register his protest, saying I belonged to the Muslim ummah and Urdu — and not my local script — was my present! Also, the fact that I worked with Tibetans annoyed the power that be in Pakistan as it not only challenged their two-nation theory but also could weaken their case in POK and Gilgit-Baltistan.

So, I had to stop my work. And I realised that till the moment there is a political guarantee and a constitutional setup, we can’t save our identity, culture. First, we needed a political identity, a constitutional system to save our culture. So, the real issue — the issue that comes before culture, language — is our politico-administrative identity and our freedom from Pakistan.

How do people in POK see the rise of Imran Khan?

Imran Khan is one of the Taliban without a beard. He is very much the extension of the Pakistan Army. There’s a famous female activist in Pakistan who recently said that the women of that country would fear the day Imran Khan would come to power. Minorities fear the day he would come to power. The disputed areas fear the day he would come to power.

Imran Khan’s emergence is a lesson for the West, which erroneously thinks that if someone drinks or has an open relationship with the opposite sex, he is a liberal. In Pakistan, if you want to find a real liberal, ask him five questions: About India, Kashmir, China, Taliban and America. The person on the extreme left and the right would have the same answers. So, there is no liberal community in Pakistan. Here there is no difference between a Bhutto and a Mullah Omar. They all work for the Army and Islam. They are all same.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by devesh »

the above article basically ridicules the vapid excuse of "India discarded the gangrenous body part". this is the most famous of all arguments when it comes to Pak's existence. it is a convenient one. it completely ignores India's civilization role of being responsible for its land. the sentiments of hurt expressed by the Gilgit-Baltistanis is for the same reason. they expect India to stand up and take responsibility. the notion of "cutting off infectious parts" is an insidious device used by political elites to shirk responsibility for their actions.

and the overarching theme is that for some reason, when it comes to Pak, the entire Indian Rashtra is complacent. they look the other way about anything concerning Pakistan. the sacred worship of LoC is a symptom of the same disease. and the Indic who have the misfortune of living on the other side of LoC are considered "gangrenous" by the apologists.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by KJo »

Interestingly, no one talks about J&K these days. Looks like the issue is dead as of now.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Ravi Karumanchiri »

X-POSTED from the TSP thread......

Two Year Sentence for Man Accused in Pakistan Spy Plot

by Kim Barker
ProPublica, March 30, 2012, 6:09 p.m.

http://www.propublica.org/article/2-yea ... n-spy-plot

A Kashmiri-American accused of funneling money from Pakistan’s main spy agency to American politicians in a scheme to influence U.S. policy on Kashmir was sentenced to two years in federal prison Friday.

Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai, 62, of Fairfax, Va., had pleaded guilty in December to conspiracy and tax violations in connection with moving at least $3.5 million from Pakistan’s government and the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, or ISI, mostly through his charity, the Kashmiri American Council. <SNIP>
......
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

Khatima Al Poaqqula


Curfew imposed after 12 killed in Gilgit and Chilas
At least 12 persons were killed and dozens of others injured in the incidents of violence in Gilgit and Chilas on Tuesday. Gunmen opened fire and killed six passengers in Chilas. According to official sources, the passengers were taken off buses and were then killed. Six buses were also set ablaze. Earlier at least five people were killed and around 50 injured after unidentified persons threw a hand grenade on a protest rally near Gari Bagh in Gilgit. The city was already observing a strike and later a curfew was imposed after it virtually turned into a battleground between rival sects. Firing was reported despite the imposition of a curfew. The rally was called by Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat (ASWJ) for release of one of its leader who was detained earlier. According to sources, two motor cyclists lobbed the grenade and fled, leaving dozens injured. Local volunteers amid firing shifted the injured to hospitals where hundreds of people turned up to donate blood. Despite the announcement of a curfew, rival sects continued firing at each other, while the government warned residents to stay inside their houses or they would be shot dead. According to sources, several people were stranded at various locations due to the curfew and constant firing.In a separate incident, assailants killed a man while he was in the lawn of his house in Majini Muhalla. The ISPR stated that the Army has been summoned to Gilgit to control the law and order situation. Eyewitnesses said that the district administration and law enforcement agencies were not present to control the violent situation fear gripped the entire area after the hostility
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

http://pamirtimes.net/2012/04/05/our-re ... -about-gb/
Our real ‘jugular’ – Nazir Naji’s article about GB

What we have done to Gilgit-Baltistan

Nazir Naji | Pakistan Today

Like today’s politicians and strategic experts do not know how Balochistan came to be a part of Pakistan, they similarly do not know how Gilgit-Baltistan came to be apart of Pakistan. For the sake of recall, Gilgit-Baltistan used to be a part of the Kashmir state that the people freed from Dogra raj. Post-independence, the people of GB voluntarily decided to join the federation of Pakistan and wanted to be given the status of a federating units like the others. But the then rulers of Pakistan, pleading on the basis of the lack of an administrative infrastructure, stated that they would have to be part of the Pakistan federation for the time being without being declared a separate province. They would be given that due status once the requisite administrative infrastructure was in place. Given our national predilection for amnesia, no one remembered this pledge even though the people of GB constantly kept reminding governments and repeatedly asked for recognition of their identity. In 1963, an important part of GB was given under the control of China without asking from the people. Given their allegiance to and love for Pakistan, the local populace accepted this unjust decision. Finally, the incumbent government came through on the historical promise of giving them provincial status.

It is pertinent to mention here that it is the people of GB, after the people of East Pakistan, who fought their war of independence themselves, got their freedom and joined Pakistan of their own volition. Of Pakistan’s current territory, there was widespread disagreement in the then province of NWFP. The Red Shirts movement boycotted the referendum and because of that boycott, the province became a part of Pakistan after the referendum. The Sindh Assembly had passed a resolution in favour of Pakistan but there was no noteworthy expression of desire from the people there. The province became a part of Pakistan according to the plan of partition. The resolution that had been passed in 1938, in fact was passed in the assembly of the province formed after separation from the Bombay presidency. During the elections for this assembly, the issue of Pakistan had never come up. The resolution was passed 1938 whereas the resolution for Pakistan was presented in 1940.

Similarly, the Pakistan movement in Punjab was also restricted to a few days. The elections that took place in Punjab before independence, the Muslim League had not gotten a majority in them. Along with Hindus and Sikh, the party of the Punjabi feudals, the Unionist Party, formed a coalition government and the chief ministership was given to Khizar Hayat Tiwana. During this time, the movement for Pakistan had already gained steam. Thus, the Muslim League also protested against that government in Punjab and registered their participation in the Pakistan movement. Some Muslim Leaguers were arrested. Some feudals also had an R&R session as jailbirds. But this agitation in Punjab wasn’t even a miniscule portion of the entirety of the Pakistan movement and the sacrifices rendered for it. Punjab’s English governor hinted to all the Unionists that since the Pakistan movement was about to achieve its end, it was better for them to join the ML. And as the night fell, all the Unionist became Leaguers and West Punjab became a part of Pakistan. If Punjab had prepared it case to present to the Radcliffe Award, then Ferozepur and Gurdaspur could have become parts of Pakistan. Batala especially would never have gone to India. But the Punjabi Muslim League was barely able to fight its own case properly which is an indication of its seriousness of purpose.

However, returning to the point I was making, it was the people of East Pakistan that had rendered the most sacrifices for the creation of Pakistan and after them, the people of GB who got their territory freed from an oppressor and joined Pakistan. The decision about East Pakistan was also taken by people who had no remarkable contribution to the creation of Pakistan. And now what is being done in GB is also being done by elements who never fought for the cause of Pakistan.

What did we lose after losing East Pakistan? Those who are pushing this country deep into a quagmire in the name of Islam still have no idea about how grave that loss was. The leadership of East Pakistan would never have let Pakistan be embroiled in the Afghan war. The Kashmir problem would possibly have been solved. Just like India, Pakistan would be on the road to rapid development. We would be standing with dignity in the comity of nations. Our society would have been free from the scourge of violence. No OBL would have been ensconced safely in our quarters and no Hafiz Saeed would have had the gall to support foreign terrorists. We have seen all this because we let East Pakistan go. And what is happening in GB now, if I allude even perfunctorily to it, it would scare the daylights out of most.

Consider: What is the geographical location of GB? On the one hand, it joins with KP and on the other with Azad Kashmir. The Karakoram Highway passes through it and that is where our and China’s territories meet. North to that is Wakhan strip which is a part of Afghanistan. But this is the area which directly joins Pakistan to the landmass of Central Asia. China is conducting many great developmental worksin GB. China is going to build a big water reservoir in this area, 80 percent of the expenditure for which China will bear itself. This Chinese reservoir will act like a lifeline for our Daimer-Basha dam. If this reservoir is not built, the Daimer-Basha dam will be but a pipedream. You must also know that the fountainhead of our aquatic lifeline i.e. the River Indus is also situated in GB.

I wrote in my previous column that if any flight from Indian territory to Afghanistan were to take fifteen minutes, it would be from this area. You fly from Occupied Kashmir to GB from where you fly to Wakhan in a matter of minutes. Now look at our relations with India and the US. Look at their capabilities and look at our own and you will clearly know what I am worried about. If we lose control over GB, the one that we never actually established, what would be the consequences for that?

Eighty percent of GB’s people belong to the Fiqh Ja’afria. They are a peaceful people. During Zia-ul-Haq’s reign, the Sipah-e-Sahaba started terrorist activities in the region which have now gained a lot of momentum. Gilgit has been in a curfew for the last three days. Corpses litter the roads and no one dare pick them up. Sectarian hatred is fermenting in South Punjab and our tribal areas and reaching that region. Kashmir is the ‘jugular vein’ without which we have been living for 64 years. But if some enemy gets hold of our jugular vein of GB, we will definitely not have 64 years…

The writer is one of Pakistan’s most widely read columnists.

No related posts.
chetak
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

Johann wrote:
Sushupti wrote:‘India should reserve IIT, IIM seats for Pakistani Kashmiris’
This is a smart move that a lot of countries do when they want to make their claims about people, not just territory.

Syria for example disputed Turkey's receipt of the Hatay strip during the French Mandate - so Turkish citizens from Hatay are treated as Syrian citizens when it comes to educational rights. I know of many who took advantage of that to get a good, and essentially free medical education in Damascus.



Another move is to issue passports to people from those areas. That is what Romania has done with Moldovans, and Russia does in Ukrainian Crimea.

Of course since this is Pakistan it would take a certain amount of security vetting to prevent infiltration, but its potentially a way to turn unhappy and unwilling Pakistanis in to enthusiastic Indians.
These are pakis, however you slice it.

not humans with human emotions and sensibilities.

Can't even brain wash them because when it comes to India, their brains are non functional onlee.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by member_20036 »

http://www.timesofindia.com/PDATOI/arti ... 677118.cms

BJP appeals to government to intervene in Gilgit-Baltistan
Apr 15, 2012, 07.27PM IST PTI

JAMMU:

The BJP today appealed to the Centre and state government to intervene to stop the killings in Gilgit-Baltistan.

"The party has been closely watching the developments in Gilgit Baltistan and appeals to the Government of India and state government to intervene to stop bloodshed and killings in Gilgit Baltistan," J&K state BJP chief Shamsher Singh Manhas told media today.

He said the party will launch a country-wide campaign to make people aware of the state government and the UPA government's apethatic attitude towards people of Gilgit Baltistan.

"We will launch a country-wide campaign to make people aware of the apathy of Central and state governments," Manhas said.

He said the party extends its support to the people of Kargil, particularly the members of Anjuman-e-Jamiyatul Ulima Asna Ashriya (Kargil) in their peaceful agitation against bloodshed and killings in Gilgit Baltistan.

Manhas also announced party's decision to depute State General Secretary and Incharge Ladakh, Satish Sharma, to contact the local leadership in Kargil and device a plan to extend every possible co-operation to the people of Gilgit Baltistan.

Shia-dominated Kargil border town in Jammu and Kashmir yesterday observed a complete bandh in protest against the recent sectarian violence in Gilgit-Baltistan region of northern Pakistan.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Op-Ed in Pioneer

Troubled peace in Gilgit-Baltistan
Troubled peace in Gilgit-Baltistan

Author: Mayuri Mukherjee

To control the Northern Areas that it has illegally occupied, Islamabad has crippled it with sectarianism



Khan Muhammed was gathering firewood in the forest overlooking a deserted stretch of the Karakoram Highway when, on that cold February morning, he witnessed something that would forever be etched in his memory. About a dozen men, dressed in military fatigues and armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, intercepted a passenger bus that we now know was ferrying passengers between Rawalpindi and Gilgit city. As the vehicle screeched to a halt, the men boarded the bus. They demanded that the passengers show their identity cards, and eventually hauled out 16 men from the bus. These men were then lined up by the roadside and shot dead in cold blood. All of the murdered passengers were Shia Muslims.

The incident happened near a small town in the remote Kohistan district of the northern Pakistani Province of Khyber-Pakhtunwa that borders the Gilgit-Baltistan area in Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir, and sparked the worst kind of sectarian violence the region has seen in decades. In the immediate aftermath of the attack, Section 144 was imposed in the area while the police maintained a close watch. An uneasy calm prevailed, but not for long.

After the February incident, transporters introduced a new Shia-only service which, of course, led the Sunnis also to create their own community-specific bus route. On Sunday, April 1, however, police announced the annulment of the new route permits. In response, the Shias went on strike the next day, blocking roads and setting up barricades. Tensions were running high and soon the uneasy peace of the previous weeks was shattered as clashes erupted between Shias and Sunnis.

In the next 24 hours, all hell broke loose. Early Tuesday morning, a group of Shias on motorcycles threw a hand-grenade at a Sunni rally that killed five and injured many more. Gun shots were fired and street-fighting continued through the day killing six more people. The police were largely overwhelmed and more often concerned with protecting members of their own sect rather than bringing the situation under control. Any semblance of a Government was entirely absent. Fear and panic spread like wildfire even as areas around Gilgit city came under attack.

As news of the grenade attack reached the Sunni-majority town of Chilas, vengeful residents there ran amok. They burnt buses, fired at Shias and took over 250 members of the rival community hostage. They were released later but on that day, another 10 people died in Chilas. Close by, in Nagar town, there were unverified reports of at least 20 more hostages being taken.

At some point during the day, curfew was announced but it was only after the sun had set and the Army had been called in that it was actually imposed. As the people retreated into their homes, unsure of what the next day had in store for them, Gilgit, once a picturesque city known for its breath-taking scenic beauty, now wore the look of a garrison town. Over the next few weeks, men in all sorts of uniforms patrolled the city; markets, schools and offices remained shut; cell phone services were jammed and suspected miscreants were taken into custody. Gilgit remained on the edge.

It wasn’t until another 25 days later that the curfew was removed on April 29. Almost three weeks later, today, the Army has returned to its barracks, the cell phones are working again and the people are going about their business — on the face of it, a sense of normalcy has been restored. But scratch the surface and the unhealed wounds stare right back at you. Look closely and you will see the decades-old scars of sectarian violence that mark the psyche of every man, woman and child in Gilgit-Baltistan.

And yet, it was not always like this. For centuries, different religious communities lived in peacefully in this region. Inter-faith marriages were common and members from one community often took part in the events and rituals of other communities.

The situation changed after Partition in 1947 when the region’s exact status came under a cloud. A political vacuum settled in. Consequently, where politicians feared to tread, mullahs quickly filled in their shoes. In the absence of any significant institution of authority, it was the mullahs, defined by their religious identity and driven by the sole aim of promoting their sect, who took charge. This was particularly convenient for Islamabad.

Having illegally occupied the Gilgit-Baltistan area, Islamabad would forever be anxious of its legitimacy in that region. To make matters worse, Gilgit-Baltistan was almost entirely Shia-dominated, in contrary to the rest of Sunni-majority Pakistan. Hence, in the minds of lawmakers in Islamabad, there was always the fear of a nationalist insurrection in Gilgit-Baltistan or of losing the strategically located region to India in the larger battle for Kashmir.


Still, the Pakistani state maintained a more or less secular position in Gilgit-Baltistan up until the 1970s, which is when Islamabad launched an active campaign to establish authoritarian control over the region as well as tilt its problematic Shia-majority demography towards a more ‘favourable’ Sunni-majority. The first step in that direction was taken by then Prime Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who abrogated the State Subject Rule — the law that protected the original demography of a region — and then, encouraged Sunnis from the rest of Pakistan to settle in the area. :( He also abolished the independent princely kingdoms of the region and set up one large administrative unit called the Northern Areas.

Then, the Army and the intelligence agencies were sent in to play mischief. In the years after that, mullahs were reportedly paid by agents of the state to introduce the poison of sectarianism — and they sure did inject it deep into the region’s bloodstream.

Over the next few years, the seeds of sectarian polarisation were sown across the region but it was only under General Zia ul-Haq who took over from Bhutto in a bloodless coup in 1977 that the situation progressively worsened on a path of no return. Not only did Gen Zia introduce religious schools with the sole mandate of raising a generation of extremist Sunni Muslims, he also encouraged cadres of the radical Sunni Sipaha-e-Sahaba to take their nefarious activities to the Northern Areas.

Consequently, in 1988, the first instance of an armed conflict was reported from the region. The immediate incident that sparked the riots was really a non-issue: The Shias had sighted their moon after Id-ul-Fitr and were already celebrating, but the Sunnis, who were yet to receive the green signal from their leaders, were still fasting. Clashes broke out and before long, there was a large-scale riot of the kind that would lead to years of mistrust and animosity between the two communities. As a result, even as the 80s drew to close, the venom of sectarianism spilled into the 90s that was marked by more violence and more bloodshed, and even more name-calling by the mullahs.

The situation did not change much until after 2005 when the two communities signed a peace agreement promising to stop issuing fatwas against each other, to protect minorities in their areas and to promote peace and harmony. That, along with the 2009 Gilgit-Baltistan Empowerment and Self Governance Order which allowed the people much needed political representation, helped bring down temperatures by a few degrees.

But decades of mistrust and suspicion cannot be undone in a few years, as the the recent riots prove. However, that should not be an excuse to give up on peace. The Masjid Board that has been set up in the aftermath of the April riots to bring both communities on board, for instance, is a step in the right direction. The Gilgit-Baltistan Government’s decision to set up a judicial commission to investigate the events should also help the healing process. But much of this will come to naught if Islamabad does not end its radicalisation campaign in the region to gain political points.

I see in the above post that town of Kargil had expressed a bandh to protest the clashes in G-B.

We need more exposure to the issues.

Can we have a volunteer group to search the Internet for news of G-B and post in this thread?


Ideally would like a G-B news Facebook and blog with x-posting in this thread.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

X-Post from Pak Minorities Thread
Sectarian strife in Gilgit-Baltistan - IDSA Comment by Priyanka Singh
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Old but interesting Op_Ed

Pak Paper: GB is the real jugular
By:Nazir Naji Wednesday, 4 Apr 2012 9:50 pm | Comments (21)

What we have done to Gilgit-Baltistan

Like today’s politicians and strategic experts do not know how Balochistan came to be a part of Pakistan, they similarly do not know how Gilgit-Baltistan came to be apart of Pakistan. For the sake of recall, Gilgit-Baltistan used to be a part of the Kashmir state that the people freed from Dogra raj. Post-independence, the people of GB voluntarily decided to join the federation of Pakistan and wanted to be given the status of a federating units like the others. :mrgreen: But the then rulers of Pakistan, pleading on the basis of the lack of an administrative infrastructure, stated that they would have to be part of the Pakistan federation for the time being without being declared a separate province. They would be given that due status once the requisite administrative infrastructure was in place. Given our national predilection for amnesia, no one remembered this pledge even though the people of GB constantly kept reminding governments and repeatedly asked for recognition of their identity. In 1963, an important part of GB was given under the control of China without asking from the people. Given their allegiance to and love for Pakistan, the local populace accepted this unjust decision. :mrgreen: Finally, the incumbent government came through on the historical promise of giving them provincial status.

It is pertinent to mention here that it is the people of GB, after the people of East Pakistan, who fought their war of independence themselves, got their freedom and joined Pakistan of their own volition. Of Pakistan’s current territory, there was widespread disagreement in the then province of NWFP. The Red Shirts movement boycotted the referendum and because of that boycott, the province became a part of Pakistan after the referendum. The Sindh Assembly had passed a resolution in favour of Pakistan but there was no noteworthy expression of desire from the people there. The province became a part of Pakistan according to the plan of partition. The resolution that had been passed in 1938, in fact was passed in the assembly of the province formed after separation from the Bombay presidency. During the elections for this assembly, the issue of Pakistan had never come up. The resolution was passed 1938 whereas the resolution for Pakistan was presented in 1940.

Similarly, the Pakistan movement in Punjab was also restricted to a few days. The elections that took place in Punjab before independence, the Muslim League had not gotten a majority in them. Along with Hindus and Sikh, the party of the Punjabi feudals, the Unionist Party, formed a coalition government and the chief ministership was given to Khizar Hayat Tiwana. During this time, the movement for Pakistan had already gained steam. Thus, the Muslim League also protested against that government in Punjab and registered their participation in the Pakistan movement. Some Muslim Leaguers were arrested. Some feudals also had an R&R session as jailbirds. But this agitation in Punjab wasn’t even a miniscule portion of the entirety of the Pakistan movement and the sacrifices rendered for it. Punjab’s English governor hinted to all the Unionists that since the Pakistan movement was about to achieve its end, it was better for them to join the ML. And as the night fell, all the Unionist became Leaguers and West Punjab became a part of Pakistan. If Punjab had prepared it case to present to the Radcliffe Award, then Ferozepur and Gurdaspur could have become parts of Pakistan. Batala especially would never have gone to India. But the Punjabi Muslim League was barely able to fight its own case properly which is an indication of its seriousness of purpose.

However, returning to the point I was making, it was the people of East Pakistan that had rendered the most sacrifices for the creation of Pakistan and after them, the people of GB who got their territory freed from an oppressor and joined Pakistan. The decision about East Pakistan was also taken by people who had no remarkable contribution to the creation of Pakistan. And now what is being done in GB is also being done by elements who never fought for the cause of Pakistan.

What did we lose after losing East Pakistan? Those who are pushing this country deep into a quagmire in the name of Islam still have no idea about how grave that loss was. The leadership of East Pakistan would never have let Pakistan be embroiled in the Afghan war. The Kashmir problem would possibly have been solved. Just like India, Pakistan would be on the road to rapid development. We would be standing with dignity in the comity of nations. Our society would have been free from the scourge of violence. No OBL would have been ensconced safely in our quarters and no Hafiz Saeed would have had the gall to support foreign terrorists. :rotfl: We have seen all this because we let East Pakistan go. And what is happening in GB now, if I allude even perfunctorily to it, it would scare the daylights out of most.

Consider: What is the geographical location of GB? On the one hand, it joins with KP and on the other with Azad Kashmir. The Karakoram Highway passes through it and that is where our and China’s territories meet. North to that is Wakhan strip which is a part of Afghanistan. But this is the area which directly joins Pakistan to the landmass of Central Asia. China is conducting many great developmental worksin GB. China is going to build a big water reservoir in this area, 80 percent of the expenditure for which China will bear itself. This Chinese reservoir will act like a lifeline for our Daimer-Basha dam. If this reservoir is not built, the Daimer-Basha dam will be but a pipedream. You must also know that the fountainhead of our aquatic lifeline i.e. the River Indus is also situated in GB.

I wrote in my previous column that if any flight from Indian territory to Afghanistan were to take fifteen minutes, it would be from this area. You fly from Occupied Kashmir to GB from where you fly to Wakhan in a matter of minutes. Now look at our relations with India and the US. Look at their capabilities and look at our own and you will clearly know what I am worried about. If we lose control over GB, the one that we never actually established, what would be the consequences for that?

Eighty percent of GB’s people belong to the Fiqh Ja’afria. They are a peaceful people. During Zia-ul-Haq’s reign, the Sipah-e-Sahaba started terrorist activities in the region which have now gained a lot of momentum. Gilgit has been in a curfew for the last three days. Corpses litter the roads and no one dare pick them up. Sectarian hatred is fermenting in South Punjab and our tribal areas and reaching that region. Kashmir is the ‘jugular vein’ without which we have been living for 64 years. But if some enemy gets hold of our jugular vein of GB, we will definitely not have 64 years

The writer is one of Pakistan’s most widely read columnists.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by anupmisra »

Any news from GB or PoK on the recent comment by Salahuddin about his band of terrorists (er... jehadis) doing pa'astan army's work in Kashmir at the behest of the paki agencies? I bet that did not go down too well with the Gilgit-Baltistanis or Muzaffarabadis.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

In case we forget.

2011 IDSA book on POK Changing the Discourse

We should nominate MLAs and MPs for the seats in POK.
Pronto once new govt takes office.
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by member_22872 »

From page 20 of the above book:
Pakistan has tried its best to keep Gilgit-Baltistan apart from the Kashmir issue. However, it has not yet felt confident enough to claim it as an integral part of Pakistan because that will weaken its case on J&K.
Could some guru kindly comment on how making Gilgit-Baltistan its integral part will weaken its case on J&K? Is it about people of J&K want independence?
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by gunjur »

What's happening in Gilgit-Baltistan?
Even in normal times, scant attention is paid in the Indian media about developments in Gilgit-Baltistan, an integral and strategic part of Jammu and Kashmir.

Even the nibbling away of Gilgit territory by Pakistan and handing it over to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, has no takers in India.

Little wonder then that caught up as we are in the din and dust of the grand Indian elections, the protests in Gilgit-Baltistan which started on April 15, 2014 and have now entered their fourth day, have not even created a ripple in India, and even in Jammu and Kashmir. Contrast this with the slightest dislocation in Jammu and Kashmir making waves in Pakistan.

These protests in Gilgit-Baltistanhave been provoked by the withdrawal of wheat subsidy in the region. In 2011, the PPP government in Islamabad had decided to withdraw 70 per cent of the wheat subsidy given by the federal government. However, there were protests including a Long March from Yasin Valley. The PPP-led Gilgit government had withdrawn the order before the march reached Gilgit.

Earlier this year, however, with a Nawaz Sharif-led PML-N government in Islamabad, the Gilgit authorities were compelled to implement the withdrawal of the wheat subsidy. This even provoked the region's Finance Minister Muhammad Ali Akhtar to support the call for resistance against the withdrawal.

The withdrawal of wheat subsidy provided an opportunity for sensible people to co-opt all sides of the religious divide into the Awami Action Committee (AAC). Formed earlier this year, the AAC tested the waters with a successful shutter down strike onMarch10, 2014 in the entire region.

The AAC is a coalition of around 20 political parties as well as religious and progressive groups representing the diversity of Gilgit-Baltistan. The AAC has formulated a 9-point charter of demands. While the main point is the restoration and fixation of the price of a 100 kg sack of wheat at Rs 820, it has other demands too like the issue of the Diamer-Bhasha Dam, protecting the region's borders and withdrawing all taxes imposed on the people under "No taxation without Representation" principle.

The most significant thing about the AAC is that it has bridged the sectarian divide and brought the Shias and Sunnis under one umbrella. It may be recalled that since 1988, the Pak Establishment has kept the people of this area divided by stoking sectarian differences.

As a result, there has been persistent sectarian violence and the population distracted in sectarian score-settling rather than protesting their lack of constitutional status.

During the March 10, 2014 shutter-down strike, the sectarian unity held. Subsequently, the residents of Nagar (Shia) invited Qazi Nisar Ahmad a religious leader of the Ahle Sunnat to visit Nagar and the residents of Chilas(Sunni) invited Aga Rahata prominent Shia leader to visit Chilas. During the on-going protests people from different sects have even prayed together, a huge signal of solidarity and unity in diversity.

Between 1947 and 2009, the region had no constitutional status. It was only in 2009 that the Presidential Order - Gilgit-Baltistan Empowerment and Self-Governance Order 2009 created an elected Gilgit-Baltistan Legislative Assembly and Gilgit-Baltistan Council. In effect, Gilgit-Baltistan became aquasi-province without constitutionally becoming part of Pakistan.

This, too, has not really satisfied the 1.8 million population because on the ground very little has changed. Beyond the trappings of autonomy, control continues to be exercised by Islamabad.

The main centre of the protests has been Yadgar Chowk in Skardu and GarhiBagh in Gilgit. Though not yet the size of Tahrir in Cairo or Shahbag in Dhaka, hundreds of protesters have spent the entire night at these iconic places, braving not only the cold but also Section 144 imposed by the Administration. During the day the number of protesters have increased to thousands in both Skardu and Gilgit.

Sit-ins have also continued in Hunza-Nagar, Ghizar, Astore, Diamer and Ghanche. Groups of people from Rondu and Shigar are reported to have joined the main procession in YadgarChowk, Skardu.

The Chitral-Shandur Road has remained closed. Hundreds of vehicles have also been stuck on the KKH in Hunza -Nagar.

While the protests and the formation of the AAC itself was the result of the withdrawal of the wheat subsidy, nationalists are hoping that the struggle would go beyond this issue. For one, they are hoping that the sectarian unity would hold and be reinforced. Beyond that, there are hopes that the opaque constitutional status of the area would be resolved and they are using this to raise political awareness among the masses.

A combination of the sectarian violence, lack of constitutional status and economic deprivation has increased the alienation of the people from Pakistan. Such feelings are increasingly being articulated on the social media.

Unfortunately, even though all Indian politicians and political parties pay lip service to the unanimous parliamentary resolution of 1994 that the entire princely state of Jammu and Kashmir, as it was in 1947 is part of India, very little is done about it.

For starters, people in India and even in Jammu and Kashmir don't even know what is happening there or what exactly its status is and how Pakistan is surreptitiously making this strategic area its' province, in violation of the UN resolutions and the Shimla Agreement.

The new Indian government would have to pay attention to this neglected issue sooner rather than later.

The views expressed in the above article are that of Mr. Salim Haq.
arun
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by arun »

X Posted from the STFUP thread.
arun wrote:The Islamic Republic of Pakistan scores heavily in the “People Under Threat” 2014 Index. The “Peoples under Threat” index identifies those countries around the world where communities face the greatest risk of genocide, mass killing or systematic violent repression.

In 2014 the Islamic Republic of Pakistan came in within the 10 highest rated countries at 7th position being beaten by Somalia, Sudan, Syria, D.R.Congo, Afghanistan and Iraq and in turn beating out Myanmar, Ethiopia and Yemen.

Interestingly Pakistan which had been vociferously complaining about human rights violations in Myanmar was rated worse than Myanmar. 7 of the 10 highest rated countries are preponderantly made up of adherents of Mohammaddenism.

Extract from the report regards the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:
While the deadly conflict in Pakistan with Islamist armed groups in the north-west draws most international media attention, the threat of ethnic or sectarian killing reaches across the country. This includes risks from interethnic political violence in Sindh, sectarian clashes between Deobandi and Barelvi militant groups, violent repression of Baluchi activists in Baluchistan, continued persecution of Christians and Ahmadiyya, and an exterminatory campaign against Hazara and other Shi’a across the country waged by Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Sipah-e-Sahaba and the Pakistani Taliban, which claimed the lives of hundreds of victims last year.
Read it here:

Peoples under Threat 2014
It has been a bad week for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s pretensions of being entitled to lecture the Non-Mohammadden world on perceived Mohammadden Oppression in Jammu & Kashmir, Palestine, Kosovo, Myanmar and elsewhere owing to her wholly misplaced belief that the Non-Mohammadden world can be conned into believing that the Islamic Republic has an acceptable record on human rights and freedom.

After being cruelly exposed by the “People Under Threat “ report, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan now stands exposed by the “Freedom In The World” report for 2014 put out by Freedom House.

Yet again Freedom House has rated Jammu & Kashmir (P 22) as being freer than not only Pakistan (P 21) but also in Pakistan Occupied J&K (P 22).:

Clicky
anupmisra
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by anupmisra »

Here's the full report: Freedom House - Freedom of the Press
chetak
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

chetak wrote:
Johann wrote:{quote="Sushupti"}‘India should reserve IIT, IIM seats for Pakistani Kashmiris’{/quote}

This is a smart move that a lot of countries do when they want to make their claims about people, not just territory.

Syria for example disputed Turkey's receipt of the Hatay strip during the French Mandate - so Turkish citizens from Hatay are treated as Syrian citizens when it comes to educational rights. I know of many who took advantage of that to get a good, and essentially free medical education in Damascus.

Another move is to issue passports to people from those areas. That is what Romania has done with Moldovans, and Russia does in Ukrainian Crimea.

Of course since this is Pakistan it would take a certain amount of security vetting to prevent infiltration, but its potentially a way to turn unhappy and unwilling Pakistanis in to enthusiastic Indians.
These are pakis, however you slice it.

not humans with human emotions and sensibilities.

Can't even brain wash them because when it comes to India, their brains are non functional onlee.
I disagree strongly. pakis are pakis. Very foolish idea to give the pakis anything. They will just go back and spit on your face. Don't even entertain these !@#$
Victor
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Victor »

venug wrote:From page 20 of the above book:
Pakistan has tried its best to keep Gilgit-Baltistan apart from the Kashmir issue. However, it has not yet felt confident enough to claim it as an integral part of Pakistan because that will weaken its case on J&K.
Could some guru kindly comment on how making Gilgit-Baltistan its integral part will weaken its case on J&K? Is it about people of J&K want independence?
My 2 paise:
Unlike India, pakistan does not have an Instrument of Accession to legitimize its claim on J&K pending a plebescite per UN resolutions. If it were to ever unilaterally claim GB/NA/PoK as an integral part, it would have taken the 1st step in repudiating the UN resolutions and would forever lose any rights to the rest of J&K. It would also make it legally easier for India to forcibly reoccupy PoK/NA/GB any time it feels ready to do so.
Cosmo_R
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

Pakistanis in IIMs/IITs and on a reserved basis? Fuggedaboutit ! And who will be 'reserved out'?

The Palestinian students we gave seats to turned religious under the spell of the maulvis/mullahs and saw it as a right versus a privilege.

Pakistani students will all be Faizal Shazads
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Rony »

'Roof of the World' rebels against Pakistan
Gilgit, Pakistan - Escalating protests in villages perched on the "Roof of the World" - a mountainous territory disputed between Pakistan and India - have exposed deep animosity towards Islamabad.

After 67 years of control by the Pakistani government, many local people want the country to either accept them as a new province - or grant them independence.
Pakistan has not constitutionally integrated Gilgit-Baltistan into its political system because it believes the area could one day prejudice the plebiscite vote to settle the Kashmir dispute with India.
Ghizer district is an unlikely place to find such animosity towards Islamabad as it is the home to 12,000 soldiers in an elite division that specialises in high-altitude warfare.

Nearly 500 have died fighting India since 1999, manning border posts in the highest battlefield on earth.

Islamabad has also spent billions of dollars building infrastructure in the area like the Karakoram highway, which links remote mountain communities and provides a reliable land route to China.

Yet locals receive no revenue from customs duties with China, or the sales tax collected by Pakistan, which generates up to $550m in annual revenue and is destined entirely for Islamabad.
If Gilgit-Baltistan gained self-rule, Rana would like to see it become a crossroads for trade between India and Central Asia, as it was for thousands of years before its western and eastern borders were closed under Islamabad's foreign policy priorities.
"As Muslims, we care about Kashmir, but give us our rights, make us like Kashmir, or let us go altogether."

Unlike the rest of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, which has its own constitution, democratically-elected legislature, and independent judiciary, Gilgit-Baltistan was long governed by a federally-appointed civil servant who could impose collective punishment on local tribes.
Rony
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by Rony »

Shiva Mandir in Old Mirpur City, PoK. Shikar style of architecture. Now submerged in Mangla Dam.

Image
SaiK
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

the white pattern shows about the construction material used. is it limestone?
ramana
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Folks please use this thread to document the gory details of POK treatment. We haven't given up on them



X-Posts....
Gagan wrote:Historic speeches of Sardar Arif Shahid before he was killed by ISI for speaking against POK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DyUpwDL0PI

and
Gagan wrote:Massive Protest in PoK against Pakistani establishment:: Demand separation from Pakistan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4iqi_rDWbM

Thanks, ramana
ramana
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

X-Post...
deejay wrote:With reference to protests in POK (TIFWIW):

Recently my brother was going on a holiday to Leh area. He had a planned visit to Turtuk. I asked him to get a ground view from locals on their perception of India. More than 12 years ago, when I was there, I knew that the Indian Gov. was working hard in pampering the local populace to help them integrate with India after we captured it from Pakis. Even in 2003, there was at least a partial pro paki view there.

My brother went there and spoke to some older gents who he thought would have seen the days under Pakistan. He specifically asked the following (not in exactly same words):
a) Do you remember the time Turtuk was with Pakistan?
- Yes.
b) Do you miss being with Pakistan?
- No.
c) Is the living situation better in India or was it better in Pakistan?
- Beta, relatives come from the other side to visit us. We give them our old woolens. Situation is very bad there. No one is happy there. No jobs, nothing. But a lot of trouble.
___________________

It seems the message that things in Indian Kashmir is dramatically better has gotten across to the 'awam' of POK loud and clear and they are getting really impatient with Pakistan.

A similar impact is happening in India. The local Kashmiri is fairly well connected with people from POK. That POK folks are not well off and are unhappy is now loud and clear to the aam abduls. This whole Kashmiri "intefada" jihad and the gun based terrorism is under threat.

Pakistan may be trying to stir up Punjab but they are fast facing a hostile Kashmiri on both sides of the border in Kashmir
.
One more data point.....
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