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PostPosted: 20 Sep 2010 19:02 
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X-Posted from Managing Chinese Threat Thread

India's Defense Postures In Ladakh: A Wake Up Call by Subhash Kapila: Eurasia Review
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Devoid of any inside insights to India's military planning or access to classified information on India's defense postures, as a strategic analyst with decades of experience in this field, one can assert that Indian Army's defense postures presently in Ladakh are sound only in terms of minimal defensive deployments to "defend" Ladakh.

India's defense postures in Ladakh, however, cannot be assessed as forcefully strong in terms of imposing dissuasion or generating "effective military deterrence" on China and Pakistan not to entertain any aggressive designs against the Ladakh Sector.

The Indian Government needs to "speed-track" the build-up of Indian Army defense postures in Ladakh to the level of "effective military deterrence" to deter China and Pakistan from military adventurism against the Ladakh Sector. This becomes a pressing military imperative in view of enhancement of China's and Pakistan's military capabilities overall against India and China's emergence as a substantive stakeholder in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.


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PostPosted: 20 Sep 2010 19:11 
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Published on Sept 13, 2010
China's Obtrusive Presence in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir: Implications For India and United States by Dr Subhash Kapila: South Asia Analysis Group

Quote:
China in terms of political and strategic signaling to its adversaries does not act impulsively and therefore the Chinese challenge of changing the strategic status-quo in South Asia has to be viewed as a well thought out and calibrated Chinese strategy to counteract what it perceives as growing reinforcing of the US-India Strategic Partnership.

These combined moves by China and Pakistan seemed to have been coincidently timed with the United States wavering commitments in Afghanistan and an India emasculated by strategic indecisiveness and lacking strategic audacity in tackling its military threats from China and Pakistan, both singly and jointly.

Some may react to this Paper as sensationalizing a trivial issue involving Chinese assistance to Pakistan in upgradation of infrastructural development in its border regions. What must not be forgotten is that in such development trivia germinate the foundations of an enlarging China-Pakistan strategic nexus and collusiveness which is bound to generate reverberations amongst neighbors.

Quote:
By making available the Karakoram Corridor to China, Pakistan in effect has enabled China to offset America’s maritime superiority choking China at the strategic chokepoints that dot China’s energy lifelines from the Gulf to China.

Pakistan in effect has therefore sided with the United States enemy and helped China in defeating American strategies to contain China’s rising military profile.

Taking off from the above is that in the ongoing United States-China power games Pakistan’s active assistance in enhancing the capacity of the Karakoram Corridor allows China to establish a meaningful and substantive strategic foothold in close proximity of the strategic Straits of Hormuz vital for American embedment in the Gulf Region andglobal energy supplies. Pakistan has therefore enabled force-multipliers to China against the United States when the Karakoram Corridor is coupled with Gwadur Port and Pakistan Navy bases on the Makran Coast.

China with the ongoing joint moves with Pakistan is now in a position to outflank United States military presence in Afghanistan. Further, with such enhanced postures, China can be inclined to be less helpful in solution of the Afghanistan conflict. China’s military presence in areas adjoining Afghanistan is likely to be used as a strong leverage by China against the United States.

China’s overall strategy has been to force the United States to exit the Asia Pacific. Pakistan’s current strategy is to prompt and induce the United States exit from Afghanistan. While China may not succeed in forcing USA out of the Asia Pacific, Pakistan seems to be making headway in prompting USA to withdraw from Afghanistan. Such a strategic vacuum so caused leaves China in a dominating position in Greater South West Asia with its Pakistan satellite doing the spadework.

Resultantly, the United States leverages in South Asia to restrain Pakistan’s military adventurism and its WMD proliferation get that much more curtailed. In actual fact, the most striking imperative for Pakistan for its strengthening strategic collusiveness with China is spurred by the pronounced national anti-Americanism predominating Pakistan and Pakistan’s strategy to shake-off United States strategic hold over Pakistan.

In a case of reversed strategic irony, “Pakistan as a frontline state in United States strategy so far, would now emerge as China’s frontline state in Chinese Grand Strategy against the United States”.


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010 02:49 
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OT, Rajesh ,can you please use dark brown or some other colour for the highlights. The red is too light and requires too much focussing. :)


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010 03:15 
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Acharya wrote:
ramana wrote:
RajeshA, Do you think
- in a failing TSP, US will like India to have POK?
- Or would they prefer the PRC?
- Or has PRC moved in due to 2008 meltdown?
- Or has TSP invited PRC to come in as it cant handle the stress?

What if this is a joint agreement between US, PRC and Pakistan for taking care of POK


20 SEP, 2010, 09.19PM IST,PTI
India considering deepwater gas pipeline from Oman: Report


DUABI: India is actively considering building a 2,000-km-long deepwater transnational gas pipeline from Oman for transporting natural gas sourced from Turkmenistan, Iran and Qatar, a leading industry official has said.
The proposed sub-sea pipeline will meet the additional gas requirement of the UAE, Oman and India, besides easing gas transportation issues of producing countries like Turkmenistan, Iran and Qatar, Subodh Kumar Jain, Director of South Asia Gas Enterprise (SAGE), told Times of Oman.


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010 03:19 
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Chinmayanand wrote:
OT, Rajesh ,can you please use dark brown or some other colour for the highlights. The red is too light and requires too much focussing. :)

Sorry, I'm color blind. Can distinguish only black, green and red.


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010 03:34 
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RajeshA wrote:
\

<SNIP>

India's defense postures in Ladakh, however, cannot be assessed as forcefully strong in terms of imposing dissuasion or generating "effective military deterrence" on China and Pakistan not to entertain any aggressive designs against the Ladakh Sector.

The Indian Government needs to "speed-track" the build-up of Indian Army defense postures in Ladakh to the level of "effective military deterrence" to deter China and Pakistan from military adventurism against the Ladakh Sector. This becomes a pressing military imperative in view of enhancement of China's and Pakistan's military capabilities overall against India and China's emergence as a substantive stakeholder in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.
[/quote]

This article is another example of misplaced reasoning. Does the author believe that if Indian Army was to increase troop strength in the said sector, the incursions by PLA will stop? Is that why PLA intrudes into our area - because we lack troops? Do the Chinese outnumber us here? I think not.

It does so because we have not defined the ladder of response and escalation with the PLA. Draw a line in the ground, tell the Chinese that this LAC where we last finished the business and from where I'll come and thump you. And to your east at coordinates xyz lie the Indian Claim line....And that is what I'd be aiming for in next shooting match.

Going on a tangent here - but the correct posture to handle any belligerence in future by the Chinese is to have a seperate Corps HQ for Eastern Ladakh with troops worth 2 Divisions and an armour group.


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2010 16:36 
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i think there is something to be said for arresting trespassers


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PostPosted: 23 Sep 2010 12:58 
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Published on Sept. 22, 2010
By Xiaoxinong Yi
Pakistan is a part of China's westward challenge to the U.S.: ZanesvilleTimesRecorder.com
Quote:
The control of Pakistani-administered Kashmir will give China a strategic land access to the Gulf through Pakistan. As Harrison points out, "It takes 16 to 25 days for Chinese tankers to reach the Gulf. When high-speed rail and road links through Gilgit-Baltistan are completed, China will be able to transport cargo from Eastern China to the new Chinese-built Pakistani naval bases at Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara, just east of the Gulf, within 48 hours."

Chinese People's Liberation Army soldiers also are constructing 22 tunnels in secret locations in Pakistan. One obvious use of these tunnels is for the projected gas pipeline from Iran to China, but they also can be used for missile storage sites in Pakistan.


This will also increase the speed with which Gwadar as a Chinese Naval Base would come online.


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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2010 20:14 
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While India is beefing up things in Ladakh, IOL reports:

The 3rd Department of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), in charge of interceptions, is reviewing its network of listening stations in Asia and is reinforcing Infrastructure installed along China's borders with Russia and India. To monitor Taiwan, the department is developing a ring of stations in Hong Kong on the site of Little Sai Wan on the island of Hainan, and at Donghang, in the province of Fujian, opposite Taiwan. At Little Sai Wan, a location that has also been used by the British Army, the 3rd department is doubling the number of SATCOM listening stations. In Donghang, the construction of a new listening station is being jointly supervised by the 3rd Department and the 4th Departments, which is responsible for radar counter-measures. The 4th Department works with the 54th Research Institute.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2010 20:06 
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Paki brethren of Sunni Wahabi Kashmiris protesting Indian brutality in Indian Kashmir

Image


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2010 00:04 
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I thought it was a meeting for airing their grievances. From the photo it appears it is more for airing their armpits. Pee..Yew...!


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2010 13:07 
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rgsrini wrote:
I thought it was a meeting for airing their grievances. From the photo it appears it is more for airing their armpits. Pee..Yew...!


Nah! Its a forum to ask the local mullah questions on impotence and wayward wives, and how to blame everything on India. Apparently, everyone there had something to ask. The dark beareded one in the front row had two questions.


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2010 13:19 
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It is a hashish distribution center.


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2010 13:30 
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anupmisra wrote:
rgsrini wrote:
I thought it was a meeting for airing their grievances. From the photo it appears it is more for airing their armpits. Pee..Yew...!


Nah! Its a forum to ask the local mullah questions on impotence and wayward wives, and how to blame everything on India. Apparently, everyone there had something to ask. The dark beareded one in the front row had two questions.


He can count? :shock:


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2010 14:49 
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^^^ once again the posters look like they have been centrally manufactured... same font, same format, same poor grammar and spelling... repetitive patterns onlee


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2010 15:01 
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LM,

Zimble onlee, same printer and designer, considering the litracy levels in the POK. Or nat, ju tell


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2010 17:28 
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Gilgit-Baltistan: The moment Of Truth For Pakistan

Quote:
A few weeks ago, India successfully persuaded the World Bank to refuse a loan to Pakistan, which was going to help construct the Diamer dam in Gilgit-Baltistan. India objected on the grounds of this region being part of the Princely State of Jammu & Kashmir and hence lying outside Pakistani jurisdiction. While the decision of the World Bank has brought relief for the people of Gilgit-Baltistan, the occasion also invites one to review the events of the past sixty years, which reveal the chronological incidents of Pakistani oppression and disregard towards local needs and demands.


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2010 17:31 
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Pratyush wrote:
LM,

Zimble onlee, same printer and designer, considering the litracy levels in the POK. Or nat, ju tell


mein kveshchun ist rhetorical onlee
only debate is whether it is JuD/LeT campus print shop or ISI print shop
or...
maybe ISI outsource to Jud? :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2010 22:19 
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^^^ now you are getting it............

ISI outsourcing, to non state aktors


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2010 23:56 
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Published on Oct 08, 2010
By Mohan Malik
Beijing playing its Kashmir card: Asia Times Online
Quote:
Amid the current unrest in the valley, Beijing has also invited Kashmiri separatist leaders for talks and offered itself as a mediator, ostensibly in a tit-for-tat for India's refuge for the Dalai Lama. Yet China is actually the third party to the dispute in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K). While India holds about 45% of J&K territory and Pakistan controls 35%, China occupies about 20% (including Aksai Chin and the Shaksgam Valley, ceded by Pakistan to China in 1963).

The denial of a visa in July 2010 to the Indian Army's Northern Commander, General B S Jaswal – who was to lead the fourth bilateral defense dialogue in Beijing – because he commanded "a disputed area, Jammu and Kashmir", was said to be the last straw.

Consequently, a new chill has descended on Sino-Indian relations. India retaliated by suspending defense exchanges with China and lodging a formal protest. New Delhi sees these moves as part of a new Chinese strategy with respect to Kashmir that seeks to nix its global ambitions and entangle India to prevent it from playing a role beyond the region. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told Indian media: "Beijing could be tempted to use India's 'soft underbelly', Kashmir, and Pakistan to keep India in 'low-level equilibrium'."


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2010 06:50 
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first thing IMO India should do is make POK a no fly zone, no flights from Pak or China can cross POK and move Akash close it.
I guess have to wait till CWG to start asserting the claim


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2010 11:01 
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^^^ Fine Idea that will just trigger WWIII. The better Idea will be to plot and execute the unraveling of the TSP. Thereby removing the state backing for the non state actors. That in turn will open up the region the POK for us.

JMT.


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2010 12:14 
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Pratyush wrote:
^^^ Fine Idea that will just trigger WWIII. The better Idea will be to plot and execute the unraveling of the TSP. Thereby removing the state backing for the non state actors. That in turn will open up the region the POK for us.

JMT.


Pratyush ji,

That is the normal way, a country imposes its sovereignty over a certain area. Even if India is not control of the region, India should ensure that no other country can claim sovereign rights over the region either - that is by denying the freedom of action that derives from sovereignty.

All declarations by Pakistan not to support terrorism in India, none has covered the State of Jammu & Kashmir. Pakistan continues to fuel insurgency in Indian part of J&K. India in fact has a blank check to do whatever India deems fit to exercise Indian 'sovereignty' over PoK - denying transport through the area is one such measure.

India need not be defensive about this. If our Constitution says whole of J&K is Indian territory, then Indian forces are free to interfere there in any way desired.

India can put out warnings regularly to both Pakistan and China that any vehicles found to be crossing international borders through PoK would be shot, unless the vehicle takes permission from India to travel through Karakoram Highway or the Air Corridor, stating the vehicle's type, color, and plan of travel.

We need to start to attack TSPA and Pakjabi Trucks in PoK. Heat up the situation. Always tell them PoK is Indian Territory. If the Pakistanis attack Indian-administered J&K, India should attack them anywhere in Pakistan in retaliation. If Pakistanis speak of Azadi, India should speak of Azadi for Gilgitians and Baltistanis from Pakistan and Pakistanis.

It is a sudden war, out of nothing, that could lead to World War III. India has to increase the temperature slowly and steadily. We need to first make PoK dangerous and then useless as a land and air corridor for Pakistan and China, and then we should start taking land there.

In fact this should be done as long as the Americans are there in Afghanistan, who can stay the hand of the Chinese.


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2010 12:22 
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This is an idea that I appreciate but find my self unable to support it while the TSP is still capable of acting as a nation state. For me it is important to reclaim POK and COK. But I feel that the priority at the moment ought to be the rolling up of the TSP. Perhaps we should do both simultaneously.

PS: I feel that we should rename this thread to include discussion on the COK as well.


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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2010 06:58 
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X-Posting.

What would be India's position on POK when Pakistan splinters and POK is under defacto PRC control? What are the implications to India?


Juggi G wrote:

If Pakistan Splinters...
Quote:
If Pakistan Splinters...
2010-10-20
Bharat Verma

The Chinese will suffer a major setback if dysfunctional Pakistan splinters in the near future.

Many Malaysian Muslims will hasten to tell you that their country should not be compared with Pakistan. When introducing themselves, migrant Muslims in West Asia (Middle East) take pains to assert that they are Muslims from India and not Pakistan.

Serious contradictions within Pakistan have pushed it into the pit of despair, from where it is almost impossible to climb out. It is reported that many young Pakistanis out of sheer frustration are repudiating Islam and converting to other religions.

Perhaps, the majority of Pakistan's dominant community, the Punjabi Sunni Muslims living in their isolated world of self-destruction, do not realize the damage they are doing to Islam. Perhaps, they are blind to the fact that Pakistan appears to be hurtling towards self-destruction.

Beijing treats Pakistan as an extension of its war machine and a surrogate colony. The likely breakup of Pakistan in the near future will stall expanding Chinese footprints.

An impaired or divided Pakistan is a cause of deep worry for Beijing, since Islamabad's capability to tie-down India by launching terrorist attacks will also suffer.

If Pakistan splinters, there will be enormous gains for India. Pakistan-occupied Kashmir will return to the Indian fold and peace will prevail.

This is the singular reason for the Chinese to move their troops into Gilgit Baltistan, the northern areas of PoK. The strategy is two-fold.

First, to occupy or gain influence over as much occupied Indian Territory as possible, in case Pakistan breaks up.

Second, to keep up the pressure on Indian borders since Pakistan is no position to do the same given its present internal disarray.

Further, China does not want India to be emboldened to mount an attack on Pakistan, which is already gasping for oxygen.

With the break-up of Pakistan, ISI activities like export of fake Indian currency and infiltration of terrorists through Nepal will cease. Anti-India rabble rousing by ISI inspired elements in Bangladesh will no longer be possible.

The Union of India's consolidation and integration as a nation will get a new fillip, as the distraction created by Pakistan in the name of religion is eliminated.

India then will be able to concentrate on the principal threat posed by China.

A Fragmented Pakistan will lessen the heavy financial burden placed on India's economy with drastic reduction in the security apparatus. This will enable young India to make rapid economic strides that can outpace ageing China in a short span of time.

Similarly, colossal gains accrue to the West if Pakistan splinters.

The West, led by America, is losing the plot in Afghanistan because the problem is the Pakistan Army and its Irregular Forces led by General Kayani. Washington was forced to admit this worst kept secret recently, when its supply routes to Afghanistan were snapped by GHQ Rawalpindi and NATO convoys carrying fuel to Afghanistan were conveniently torched by the ISI controlled Ghost Army of Jihad with impunity.

American attempts to unhook Pakistan from China will continue to fail despite dangling the carrot of modern weapons and technology, as Islamabad's strategic dependency on Beijing is now irreversible.

The 'real estate' of Pakistan was created so that the West could monitor and manipulate the former Soviet Union, China and India.

However, if Pakistan falls apart, Sind, which has very strong democratic yearning, is certain to chart its own independent path, but in consonance with Indian value system.

Independent Baluchistan with its rich resources will be definitely against the Chinese, who are exploiting its resources in conjunction with Islamabad. Denial of Gwadar port will preclude Chinese navy from the warm waters of Indian Ocean and direct access to West Asia.

Afghanistan will gradually witness unhindered growth of democracy; the spoilers Pakistan Army and the ISI would have disappeared.

Therefore, democracies will find many friendly places to operate from and access the resources of Central Asia to the mutual benefit of all players.

The biggest gain for the democracies will be that China's expanding authoritarian influence will be sharply curtailed. Also the Jihad fervor being orchestrated in this part of the world by the Punjabi Sunnis will die a natural death due to fatigue and lack of resources.

The spread of two authoritarian streams, Chinese communism and the Islamic fundamentalism, in combination or otherwise, threaten the survival of democracies in Asia.

If Pakistan splinters, one of the threats will be substantially neutralised.

This in turn will make Central Asia, where Pakistan aims to attain strategic depth with the help of Islamic fundamentalists, a safer place

If Pakistan splinters, Xinjiang in China will face renewed instability, and the Chinese flank in occupied Tibet will come under severe pressure.

With independent Sind and Baluchistan, the Chinese supply lines from Gwadar would also get blocked. This will force China to revert to 'peaceful rise' instead of laying claim on territory or islands of other nations.

The power of the Shias will increase, thus creating a balance with some of the Sunni sects that are mainly responsible for terrorist acts worldwide. Two successive British Prime Ministers have stated that Pakistan accounts for 75 percent of all such acts.

If Pakistan splinters, this percentage will drop dramatically.

Most remarks on Pakistan are often prefaced by: "Just like you Indians cannot live with Pakistan..."

This premise is false. An average Indian can live with Pakistan, as long as Islamabad does not interfere in internal affairs or connive against India. It is irrelevant whether India talks, trades or maintains diplomatic relationship with Pakistan; the growth of the Indian economy or the growing status of India is not even remotely connected with failure or success of Islamabad.

The 'Pakistan Story' failed because of the inherent flaws in the values professed and not because of Kashmir.

The 'Indian Story' shows success because of its belief in secular democratic values.

The truth, therefore, is that 'Pakistan cannot live with India.' The converse is absolutely preposterous.

If Pakistan splinters, it will hit the biggest stakeholder and benefactor China.

In order to safeguard its strategic interests, Beijing will make every endeavour to prevent the breakup of Pakistan, even to the extent of military intervention in support of the Pakistan Army.

If Pakistan splinters, forces led by US President Barak Obama will win. On the contrary, if China is successful in its intervention, authoritarian regimes will hold sway in Asia.

Who wins the great game in Asia, will depend on the finesse with which the cards are dealt by the contending sides.

Bharat Verma, a former Cavalry Officer is Editor, Indian Defence Review.
He frequently appears on television as a commentator, and is the author of Fault Lines and The Indian Armed Forces


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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010 09:42 
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^^^ Whether it is POK or COK, it is Indian land under Illeagle occupation by India's enemies. The position of India will not change regardless of who cotrols them.

It will be interesting to see if the GOI will try to physicaly tke over the land in case of TSP collapse.


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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010 11:08 
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It would be a great achievement if India manages to cling on to the J&K, PoK and CoK are now a chapter in history in reality we cannot even claim them to be ours on the map. :roll:


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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010 11:13 
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The real situation is pathetic. GoI does not have the balls to do anything even on Copenicus Marg in Delhi, let alone Karakoram highway! Is advocating secession not illegal and unlawful activity by any strech of imagination? Then what are these laws for? Recent wet dreams of A Roy et al are an indication in point. I guess we should feel "grateful" to the ruling dynasty if we are able to retain whatever we are left with.


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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010 11:42 
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First thing is never to give up claims on land, no matter what! If one generation does not have the capacity or the guts to take over the land, a new generation will arise and finish the work!


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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010 19:30 
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My question above has two parts.

Firstly, when Pakistan splinters and if India cannot reclaim the land that legally belongs to it, what is the point of spending billions of $$$ on armed forces?

Secondly, if it is extremely difficult to recapture POK/NA from TSP, what would be the possibility of reclaiming it from PRC?

I did not expect Indians to giveup their claims on POK/NA, Aksai-chin, Tibet and other places without fighting a single bullet. It is a shame!


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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2010 21:05 
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We can’t be indifferent to Gilgit-Baltistan

Quote:
The Northern Areas, illegally occupied by Pakistan, has been renamed Gilgit-Baltistan. This region is of great strategic importance to India. It borders Afghanistan and is legally a part of India, but our decision-makers have been ignoring it. In the 20th century, the British were alive to its importance in the context of the threat from Czarist Russia, and after the 1917 Revolution from the Soviet Union. Current reports of an increased Chinese military presence in Gilgit are a cause of grave concern.

The British had a political agent at Gilgit and later obtained a lease to administer the area. As Independence approached, the lease was terminated and Gilgit reverted to Jammu and Kashmir. Brigadier Ghansara Singh of the state Army took over as governor of Gilgit from the British political agent, Colonel Beacon, on August 1, 1947. Major Brown, commanding the Gilgit Scouts, staged a military coup at Gilgit, surrounding the residence of the governor on November 1, 1947. Brig. Ghansara Singh was forced to surrender and the Pakistan flag was hoisted in Gilgit. Pakistan got its first taste of a military coup. The non-Muslim troops of the Maharaja’s Army took refuge in Skardu fort along with a large number of Hindu and Sikh refugees. Col. Shahmsher Jung Thapa was commanding the garrison. On November 1, 1947, when this coup took place, Pakistani forces had advanced to the outskirts of Srinagar. With our backs to the wall, we were preparing to launch an offensive to throw them out of the Valley. Our resources were slender in the Valley and could not be reinforced in the winter.

The grass airfield at Srinagar would soon become unusable after snowfall and the road across Banihal pass was blocked with snow. There was then no tunnel at Banihal. We were in no position to do anything about Gilgit. When the snow melted and the road and air communications were restored, we reinforced our strength in the Valley. Our summer offensive was launched with the main thrust to Muzaffarabad. Gurais Valley was secured in the north to guard against the threat from Gilgit and Sonamarg in the East against the threat from Kargil, then under Pakistani occupation. The relief of Skardu was to be carried out subsequently.

Our summer offensive achieved reasonable success with the capture of Tithwal, tantalisingly close to Muzaffarabad. On the appeal of the UN to both India and Pakistan, our offensive was suspended in June 1948. The Skardu garrison held out heroically for six months. Unfortunately, we did not then have transport aircraft with pressurised cabins, needed for flying at 20,000 feet, to carry out air drops at Skardu. By August 1948, food ran out in Skardu, which had a large civilian population that had taken shelter there.

We had to most reluctantly order the Skardu garrison to surrender. On August 14, 1948, Col. Thapa had to raise the white flag. The enemy massacred Hindus and Sikhs. By September they captured Kargil and advanced to Ladakh, threatening Leh. After two unsuccessful attempts we managed to break through the Zoji-la heights, establishing a world record by using tanks at such high altitude. We captured Kargil and advanced another 200 miles to secure Leh. Soon the ceasefire came into force and Gilgit Baltistan remained under Pakistan occupation.

Pakistan has been assiduously promoting two myths. First, Gilgit was liberated by an indigenous freedom movement against the tyrannical rule of the Maharaja and the people joined Pakistan of their free will. Second, Gilgit-Baltistan was never a part of J&K. Pakistan detached Gilgit-Baltistan from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and denied its people basic political rights. They still cannot vote for the Pakistan Parliament.

All the top government positions are held by Pakistanis who get special allowances for serving in the region, as the British officers got in India.

The council, recently designated an Assembly, has a nominated chairman known as the chief executive officer with a local deputy elected on a very limited franchise. Eighty-five per cent of the people in the region are Shias and are subjected to ethnic and sectarian violence. There has been a prolonged agitation in the region against anti-Shia school textbooks and the government settling Punjabis and Pathans to alter the region’s demographic profile. Interestingly, members of the United Gilgit-Baltistan movement recently complained that India has not been doing anything for them and they want reservation of seats in Indian educational institutions for students from their region!

Although New Delhi maintains the whole of J&K is an integral part of India, we have been indifferent to the travails of the people of Gilgit-Baltistan.

In March 1953, Pakistan gifted 5,000 sq. km of territory in Shansgam Valley to China. The Karakoram Highway through this region provides a road link between China and Pakistan.

In the present crisis, we can no longer remain indifferent to Gilgit-Baltistan. Simultaneously, we need to build our military muscle to deter military adventurism against us by either China or Pakistan. Belatedly, some efforts are now being made. This must be completed on a war footing to safeguard our national interests.

A rail link is now under construction from Tibet to join the Pakistan rail network and connect to Gwadar port. Permanent military barracks have been constructed for increasing numbers of Chinese troops. This region is an important link in China’s String of Pearls strategy to contain India. In 2005, we agreed to the opening of the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road. As governor of J&K, in my Republic Day address that year I had urged the opening of the Kargil-Skardu road. Musharraf had allowed a PoK delegation led by a former chief justice to visit Srinagar. This included four members from Gilgit. These four called on me and thanked me for taking up the opening of the Kargil-Skardu road. They wanted their visas extended to enable them to visit Kargil because, they said, they had a deep attachment for the people of Kargil. I arranged for them to visit Kargil. They also mentioned their local problems. Baroness Emma Nicholson, a member of the European Union Parliament, was deputed to prepare a report on Kashmir. She visited PoK, Gilgit-Baltistan and Indian-administered Kashmir. I had a long discussion with her in Srinagar. In her report she praised the functioning of democracy in Indian-administered Kashmir, criticised the lack of it in PoK and its total absence in Gilgit-Baltistan. Pakistan tried to scuttle this report but the European Parliament passed it by over 400 votes, with only nine votes against it.

In the present crisis, we can no longer remain indifferent to Gilgit-Baltistan. Simultaneously, we need to build our military muscle to deter military adventurism against us by either China or Pakistan. Belatedly, some efforts are now being made. This must be completed on a war footing to safeguard our national interests.

- The author, a retired lieutenant-general, was
Vice-Chief of Army Staff and has served as governor of Assam and Jammu and Kashmir.


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2010 11:20 
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31
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Deforestation in northern J&K

Lawmakers in the Gilgit-Baltistan (G-B) Assembly on Wednesday voiced concerns over illegal cutting of trees in forests of Astore and Skardu, saying that this will deprive the region of precious natural resources. “Is there any department to ask officials of the forestry department why such rampant deforestation is taking place in Gilgit-Baltistan?” Abdul Hamid, a Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) lawmaker from Astore asked while speaking on a point of order. He called for holding an inquiry into the matter before it spiraled out of control.


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PostPosted: 22 Nov 2010 11:49 
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Joined: 21 Nov 2010 05:50
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Guys, I dont know how this has been missed, but is Karzai stupid enough to approve this? Rather worrying.

April 07, 2010
Quote:
Chitral-Tajikistan road first survey completed..... Salim Khan

From Our Correspondent

CHITRAL : NWFP Minister for Population welfare, Saleem Khan has disclosed that a survey of Tajikistan Road from Chitral to Afghan boarder has been completed which has declared Lotkoh valley of district Chitral as the most feasible, suitable and safest place for the proposed Tajikistan Road expressing the hope that work on the project would be started during the reign of the present government of PPP.

http://www.chitraltimes.com/english10/newseng95.htm

July 15, 2010
Update on Pakistan-Tajikistan Road project
Quote:
-Excerpt- Arbab said that 220 kilometres long Pakistan-Tajikistan Road would be the shortest route between the two countries and include a five-kilometre tunnel at Dorrah Pass on the Pak-Afghan border. He said that Prince Karim Aga Khan had been taking personal interest in the construction of the road and had also indicated to extend financial support in this regard.

http://ismailimail.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... d-project/

:evil:


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PostPosted: 22 Nov 2010 12:17 
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Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31
Posts: 12090
Image

Check out how Skardu was with India till May 1948 and India could have kept most of POK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1947


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PostPosted: 22 Nov 2010 12:28 
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Posts: 12090
Pratyush wrote:
^^^ Whether it is POK or COK, it is Indian land under Illeagle occupation by India's enemies. The position of India will not change regardless of who cotrols them.

It will be interesting to see if the GOI will try to physicaly tke over the land in case of TSP collapse.

With PRC also going for Andaman islands and also after north East region they are working on a forward strategy.


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PostPosted: 22 Nov 2010 14:10 
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13
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Acharya,

When did the PRC started going after A&N. I seem to have missed the news reports completely. Or are you refering to the Coco Island facility.

PS: Does any one remeber a report of the MARCO Action in the andaman seas wher 80+ bandits and pirates were killed in action along with 2 MARCOS. The news seems to have completely disappeared from media.


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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2011 17:03 
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Joined: 28 Nov 2010 01:02
Posts: 296
Omar asks BJP not to hoist flag in Srinagar


Have not we seen Pakistani flags in each and every nukad of India?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 222368.cms


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2011 05:16 
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
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Location: Hindu Enclave, Narrow-Mind Street
^ fair enough! BJP should challenge him to hoist the flag in Lal Chowk on their behalf; it can be carried to Srinagar by BJP and hand it over to him.


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2011 06:24 
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self-deleted


Last edited by Ajatshatru on 06 Jan 2011 16:59, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2011 06:39 
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Joined: 04 Sep 2008 22:25
Posts: 247
personally, i think all POK etc is a decoy. A&N is the real target.


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