Managing Chinese Threat

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Apr 2013 18:51

Serious pressurizing internationally - is not about pressurizing the overt aggressor onlee. It s also about noting when exactly is the overt aggressor getting overtly aggressive. Then pressurize or threaten the overt aggressor's friends - who might have had a role in signalling to the aggressor that he can play.

The key to controlling China where aggression on India is concerned is perhaps UK, or extended western European networks. India has recently hurt the arms lobby of the north-west. A similar game went on in the lead up to 1962.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Apr 2013 18:55

Claims of territory have to be matched by ever increasing scaling up of counter claims on territory. This is a long established tactics of upping the stakes so that even seemingly small concessions from that high stake still becomes a gain. The Chinese play this well - but except on two occasions - again for very specific internal reasons, India has never staked claims on territory not under its control - and followed it through with concrete military and political steps. This is not how the international game of territorial claims is played.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2013 19:10

SSridhar wrote: Shyam, politicians 'from India' are trying to avoid conflict. I am not so sure about the Chinese side. There are four things, IMO, that are problematic for us. One is that we are unwilling to speak to China in the only language they understand. Two, the PLA has greater say in the Chinese hierarchy than their Foreign Ministry. Three, the Chinese Preisdent has his sympathetic ears for the PLA. Four, the Indian military is not consulted by the politicians in these situations until it becomes too hot to handle.

Indeed it is the GoI trying to avoid conflict which I think is the right thing to do as a first step. War/mil action is the last step. Eventually all these moves by PLA will reach that - unless at some point they back down. Note that the person who leaked this to the media was a "government source" i.e. not military. Both sides will need to save face. The GOI is pulling out all the cards in the book to avoid conflict - Talks via ambassadors, Dai Binguo (their special rep) and NSA dialogue, MEA/MFA and probably the last step will be MMS - Xi direct phone call, probably US ambassador to PRC has been roped in as well.

In the mean time, Armed Forces will be placed on the ready - first step has already been made in this regard - Ladakh Scouts. Then next step will be full on build up in the area.

In the past, such incidents have been shrouded in secrecy and they could have kept it that way if they wanted to given the location of incident.

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 23 Apr 2013 19:22

I think we end up being reactive every time and that is where we lose sight of the real loss.
Soon the army build up and diplomacy will cool the things down but so will the issue of the land we already lost.
GOI and Army will sing their laurels that they stopped the Chinese while the latter would laugh their way to the bar; after having gained 2kms or 10 kms inside the border .. or 18 kms as some people are now saying (could be a rumour).
When the dust settles; amidst all these lies and pacifism who is to confirm and testify in front of the nation where the Chinese were and where they are now. After all we just analyze what the mainstream media feeds us and we know what the GOI and Army want the media to feed us.

First sign of any strength in GOI would be to cause the Chinese retreat to where they came from.
If that doesn't happen, whatever anyone (Govt. or Army) says or does .. build up .. moving phalaanaa phalaanaa forces in front of Chinese and all that meaningless reactive crap. It doesn't get us what we lost in the open daylight robbery already.
Its like saying "hey we got robbed but look what a fancy lock we have on our door now."

Regards,
Virendra

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2013 19:30

China denies Ladakh incursion, accuses India of 'aggressive patrolling'

Reported by Nitin A Gokhale, Edited by Sindhu Manjesh | Updated: April 23, 2013 19:46 IST

Ladakh: Despite a second meeting today between Indian army commanders and their Chinese counterparts, a stand-off in Ladakh continues. New Delhi says soldiers from the People's Liberation Army crossed 10 kilometres (six miles) into Indian territory on April 15 and pitched tents there. Incorrect, says China.
Here are 10 big developments in this story:
India and China held a second flag meeting today to discuss the alleged incursion. Like the earlier meeting on April 18, this one ended without a breakthrough.China says it has not tress-passed into Indian territory. "Our troops are patrolling on the Chinese side of the actual line of control and have never trespassed the line," said Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying yesterday.China has reportedly objected to India's attempts to develop infrastaructure such as roads and logistics bases close to the border and has accused India of aggressive patrolling. Indian government officials have confirmed that on the night of April 15, two helicopters gave support to over a dozen Chinese soldiers as they set up temporary posts on the Indian side of the disputed border.

Heading for conflict - but PRC is probably just protecting their side of the story - so as not to look at a wrong. Both need something to save face.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Apr 2013 19:32

India has to claim Kailash and Mansarover for itself! IN addition it has to issue a statement that "keeping a boundary with a new entrant like China is much unlike keeping one historically with Tibet both in the context of peace and cultural contiguity. It is for this considered reason we withdraw our previous acquiescence of Chinese takeover of Tibet, which was short sighted". A direct claim on 350,000 sq kms of Kailash Mansarover region must be made Tonight!

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 23 Apr 2013 19:39

brihaspati wrote: India has never staked claims on territory not under its control - and followed it through with concrete military and political steps. This is not how the international game of territorial claims is played.

Even if you give the benefit of doubt to GoI on this matter and account for 'hands being tied' and 'gagged mouths', this does not explain the all pervasive non-acknowledgement from the Indian side that something is wrong in its response mechanism.

Are the coordinated Chinese actions (both on the Indian and Japanese fronts) to warn Japan against making state visits to India (the Japanese emperor is scheduled to visit soon)?

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 23 Apr 2013 20:00

An attempt to manufacture a border conflict before Parliament is dissolved before or during the onset of monsoonal rains in the sub-continent, a final attempt to 'cock a snook' at a peacenik Prime Minister (who at one time nursed ambitions to win the Nobel Peace Prize), thereby harshly exposing all lacunae in Indian military procurement and current inventory.

The Indian establishment should have realized that the Maldives and Sri Lanka episodes of late 2012 and early 2013 were just the preludes to the main course being served up by the PLA in the north.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 Apr 2013 20:00

harbans wrote:India has to claim Kailash and Mansarover for itself! IN addition it has to issue a statement that "keeping a boundary with a new entrant like China is much unlike keeping one historically with Tibet both in the context of peace and cultural contiguity. It is for this considered reason we withdraw our previous acquiescence of Chinese takeover of Tibet, which was short sighted". A direct claim on 350,000 sq kms of Kailash Mansarover region must be made Tonight!

I fully agree!

But the first project in India should really be concerned by reestablishing Bharatiya domination over Nepal and reintegrating Myanmar into Bharat through some form of federation, then we can open the Tibet issue again.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 Apr 2013 20:06

Klaus wrote:The Indian establishment should have realized that the Maldives and Sri Lanka episodes of late 2012 and early 2013 were just the preludes to the main course being served up by the PLA in the north.

I think PLA knows that India is going to take a new trajectory soon, and wants to deliver another 1962 to put us down!

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING SHOULD PUT US DOWN!

China should know that we have not forgotten 1962 and in fact it helped kick-start India's militarization. China should know a conflict in 2013 with 24/7 News coverage and Social Media simply means that they are going to hyper-charge the Bharatiya spirit and it is not going to calm down till China is pushed back to being a dirty neighborhood in Beijing!

Bring it On! Nothing can be better!

Whatever happens, it would finish off the anti-national monkeys in India!

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 23 Apr 2013 20:10

If the rumours about Indian presence at Ras Al Hadd is true, the military should certainly use it to heckle the Chinese in Gwadar as well as carry out false-flag ops with Chinese shipping near the Hormuz straits. Of course, if India has Iran already in confidence during the recent talks leading upto Chabahar port operations, then all the better.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 23 Apr 2013 20:13

Goldmine. Chinese thinking about Nehru,border dispute, Pakistan,Nepal, Burma, IA, Goa liberation and much more.
尽管第二次会议今天印度军队指挥官和他们的中国同行之间，在拉达克继续对峙

go to warstudy.com (3rd in the results)

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 23 Apr 2013 20:14

Folks this has been happening for quite some time with Congies taking interest only this time to cover up for the coal gate and zero governance bamboo they have got. Congies will now try and whip up nationalistic sentiment and we could also see a kargil so that kongies can romp home in the elections

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 Apr 2013 20:16

suryag wrote:Folks this has been happening for quite some time with Congies taking interest only this time to cover up for the coal gate and zero governance bamboo they have got. Congies will now try and whip up nationalistic sentiment and we could also see a kargil so that kongies can romp home in the elections

If India wins, laurels would go to the Indian Army! If India loses, the shoes would come down on the ruling party!

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Apr 2013 20:19

But the first project in India should really be concerned by reestablishing Bharatiya domination over Nepal and reintegrating Myanmar into Bharat through some form of federation, then we can open the Tibet issue again.

Rajesh Ji, i don't agree we have to do that at all to claim KM or acknowledge our error in agreeing to Chinese hegemony over Tibet. KM is ours. Shiva is ours. Han has no business to be in KM at all. Frankly even Tibetan rule of KM was not quite right as KM is only exclusive to Shiv Bhakts. Han had nothing to do with KM at all. The KM Shiv tradition is millenia old. When Tibet was ruling it was OK as there was no passport control, no visa etc. Tibet and India were like Nepal and India. At this point it is highly unlikely Nepalese or Burmese want to integrate with India. Yet it is clear that KM has no population apart from the pilgrimages from India that have been ongoing for thousands of years and of course Lord Shiva meditating somewhere there. SO our claim of KM is overdue. Our belief that Tibet should be reverted to Tibet and UN resolutions upheld is also overdue as these sort of transgressions with the Han will continue to no end or us ceding land.

After making a claim for KM as Indian and Tibet that we want it independent, we don;t stop trade. We only alter our maps and reiterate politely that we would like to see this change accomplished from China without recourse to violence etc. Yet it is important to note that we can in 24 hours make that policy change without engaging in war and without recourse to trade embargo etc. For a change it will be Chinese who will not know what action to take, what to say if we take recourse to the above. We can have peaceful chai biskoot sessions over the next year clearing our pov. We need not involve Myanmar/ Nepal for all this. We will look like hegemonists and land grabbers trying to take over lands where people don't want to be with us. People will laugh us off on Tibet and KM too for that matter.

vic · Post by **vic** » 23 Apr 2013 20:38

India should ask customs to delay clearance to all non-essential imports from china like toys, consumer products. Public sector banks should be directed to stop opening LCs for any future import from China.

vic · Post by **vic** » 23 Apr 2013 20:39

SSridhar wrote:No vic, we should also retaliate militarily.

our MMS military action ????

member_26147 · Post by **member_26147** » 23 Apr 2013 20:43

The first thing that needs to be done is to remove indira congress from power. For that, all Indians need to come together if they don't want to be 'enslaved' once more. When a leader like man ka mohan cannot do anything about Raj thackeray blatantly encouraging riots within groups in India and says 'What can I do?' how does he deserve to lead the country? Not to mention that Sonia and her younglings first priority is to control India through indira congress and will always kow-tow to the western nations to keep power.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2013 20:54

IA just announced they are making preparations to deploy additional troops (as mentioned earlier) to the area if no de-escalation by PRC.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 Apr 2013 20:54

harbans wrote:After making a claim for KM as Indian and Tibet that we want it independent, we don;t stop trade. We only alter our maps and reiterate politely that we would like to see this change accomplished from China without recourse to violence etc. Yet it is important to note that we can in 24 hours make that policy change without engaging in war and without recourse to trade embargo etc. For a change it will be Chinese who will not know what action to take, what to say if we take recourse to the above. We can have peaceful chai biskoot sessions over the next year clearing our pov. We need not involve Myanmar/ Nepal for all this. We will look like hegemonists and land grabbers trying to take over lands where people don't want to be with us. People will laugh us off on Tibet and KM too for that matter.

harbans ji,

Islam has taken beatings - most notably in Spain, but also in the Indian Subcontinent. But Islam has never let go of its claims. This is what we have to internalize. Historical claims are sacred and no political dispensation in the India can afford to barter them away in some negotiation! Period!

However we have had even BJP doing bartering.

So if you do it once, others would push us to keep on doing it! Even if we start claiming Tibet, what does it change? Is it not possible that another government could come in India, which would again sell our claims, in fact for nothing! How often has Congress used Kandahar as a pretext to give in to Pakistani terror. So even if say some nationalist government in India derecognizes Tibet as part of China, the next government in India can again recognize Tibet as part of China, and claim that in June 2003, a BJP government had once done the same!

So empty claims are not what moves the world. It is a sacred policy of a nation never to barter away its claims. And even more importantly it is a continuous policy by governments of whatever hue that come to power to singlemindedly and resolutely work to realize those claims. Without such behavior, our pronouncements would lack the seriousness.

We have to walk the talk!

We have allowed our "near abroad" - Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Myanmar, even Bangladesh to fall into the lap of the Chinese! Where is our resolve?

We need to first fix our heads! Then we need to fix our country! Then we need to fix our "friends" in the neighborhood! Then we need to fix China and liberate Tibet!

At the moment any claims over Tibet would only be used by China to justify its invasion of our territories!

I think we need to first have a little fight with China. Get it to back off. Then we need to start this program of pushing China back!

We give the Chinese a real fight. If we win then our soldiers would have deserved it.

If we lose a little border fight against China, even that is okay! Everything would help us steel ourselves! It would help us wash the Nehruvian Defeatist Muck hanging on to our minds and prepare our bodies, it would steel up our frames! We should have gotten rid of the Nehruvian Defeatist Muck in 1962 itself, but for some reason we again bought into his jargon! 2013 could help us get rid of the Nehruvian Defeatist Muck!

So whatever happens, it is going to be good for the Bharatiya Mind!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Apr 2013 20:59

rsingh wrote:Goldmine. Chinese thinking about Nehru,border dispute, Pakistan,Nepal, Burma, IA, Goa liberation and much more.
尽管第二次会议今天印度军队指挥官和他们的中国同行之间，在拉达克继续对峙

THis is interesting that they have an opinion of Indian relation to other countries, Goa liberation and Indian experience on outside world. Very interesting that they have the ability to look the British world view and also get a British view of the Tibet and India Tibet history.

This kind of details are usually the work of the colonial powers.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 Apr 2013 21:05

We will soon see a few British articles coming out in support of Chinese position, and how Indians are irresponsible and like to increase tensions. There would also be reports coming out about how Indian military is much weaker than that of China, and India should better "try to resolve this amicably"!

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2013 21:33

PLA objects to this development and what it calls India's new aggressive patrolling posture #DBO
Expand
nitin gokhale ‏@nitingokhale 2h
India too stuck to its position. India proposed going back to status quo that existed before this episode. #DBO
Expand
nitin gokhale ‏@nitingokhale 2h
The Chinese delegation apparently wanted India to stop recent infrastructure work close to the border in the Depsang area near DBO #DBO

LOL. So they are arm twisting us to stop infra work in the Depsang area.

See Depsang in this pic that RohitVats posted.

My assessment is that the statements from the PLA side are well calculated and are coming directly from the top.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Apr 2013 22:28

Even if we start claiming Tibet, what does it change? Is it not possible that another government could come in India, which would again sell our claims, in fact for nothing! How often has Congress used Kandahar as a pretext to give in to Pakistani terror. So even if say some nationalist government in India derecognizes Tibet as part of China, the next government in India can again recognize Tibet as part of China, and claim that in June 2003, a BJP government had once done the same!

Firstly we are not claiming Tibet. We are only:

1. De-recognizing our acquiescence of Han aggression because of unending Chinese hostility.
2. Recognizing the fundamental right of Tibetans to form their own Government as recognized by numerous UN resolutions since the 50's.
3. Recognizing our fundamental right to claim 350K sq km of the Kailash Mansarover region as belonging to us.

Doing so we must elucidate that the Han is not India's natural neighbor like Tibet. Our recognition was based on certain assumptions:

1. The Han would continue to keep Tibetan culture and tradition alive.
2. That the Han would sort out border issues in good faith.

Unless we have that policy even these transgressions will continue happening with the GoI at the backfoot on each occassion. We have to realize that at some point. If not we have to play on the back foot at all times.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 Apr 2013 22:30

harbans ji,

I agree with you!

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 23 Apr 2013 22:51

RajeshA wrote:We will soon see a few British articles coming out in support of Chinese position, and how Indians are irresponsible and like to increase tensions. There would also be reports coming out about how Indian military is much weaker than that of China, and India should better "try to resolve this amicably"!

If a future homegrown intel setup can trace the benefactors of these Brit gutter inspectors, then we can be lead upto and pin-point the kingpins of the Eurasian narco+arms network which is responsible for all of the provocation-misperception game ongoing in Cashmere, Tibet and elsewhere in Central Asia.

The Brit media reports always follow at a pre-determined time after Londonistan financed networks have finished retrofitting & re-jigging their crank mechanism in their target areas. Its amazing that not a single soul in the national scene can hear this creaking, corroded, aged & noisy booby trap headed their way every single time a leader of some stature utters something constructive and/or the sub-continental MIC getting its act together (DPP 2013).

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 23 Apr 2013 23:13

Klaus wrote:The Brit media reports always follow at a pre-determined time after Londonistan financed networks have finished retrofitting & re-jigging their crank mechanism in their target areas. Its amazing that not a single soul in the national scene can hear this creaking, corroded, aged & noisy booby trap headed their way every single time a leader of some stature utters something constructive and/or the sub-continental MIC getting its act together (DPP 2013).

Klaus ji the same thought occurred to me also, though I only have the faintest suspicions about it. Would be useful if you and other gurus could list some signs and evidence of this nexus at work - which manufactures an emergency everytime India's MIC wants to gear up for next level, and thereby spurs a buying spree to upgrade rather than investing in our own MIC...

Another angle I was thinking of was how both Britain and China have courted Modi in the recent past. This may be an unpopular line of thought on this forum, but why have they courted Modi, and are now working to actively embarrass the UPA govt?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Apr 2013 23:29

I think the bargain that PRC are hoping for is for India to give up infrastructure building in that area in exchange for pulling back

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 23 Apr 2013 23:38

Tweet form a Fauji

Lt Gen H S Panag(R) ‏@rwac48 2h
19.#Standoff:China feels most vulnerable from SSN due proximity to Aksai Chin-Xingiang Highway.Pre/in 62 ops commenced from SSN.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 23 Apr 2013 23:58

In addition to strategic solutions suggested by couple of posters, here is what I suggest. We send a platoon to tag the invading chinese platoon. The task of this platoon is to make sure that chinese do not advance further. It seems like we are already doing this. Then send another platoon 10KM inside LAC on the other side to camp. Make sure both are well supplied. Make sure we have adequate build up to address chinese escalation. Let us see how quick they are to draw the first blood.

vic · Post by **vic** » 24 Apr 2013 00:15

When you arm your military with imported arms then you pay with your balls. We have lost the nerve which we had even in 1967.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Apr 2013 01:25

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-N ... ed-islands
China sends largest fleet yet to disputed islands

( IMHO, INDO-JAPAN Alliance Causing China Behave Like Paki)

pats between Asia’s two most powerful nations, China and Japan, have grown uncomfortably routine since Tokyo nationalized a group of disputed islands in September. On Tuesday tensions reached a new and potentially worrisome high.hina sent eight surveillance vessels into Japanese territorial waters, apparently to track a flotilla of Japanese activists who had gone to look at the contested area. China’s presence – an effort to exercise authority in the region – is its largest since Japan nationalized the uninhabited islets, Kyodo News reported.China’s use of ships in disputed waters isn’t expected to cause a war, but it raises the specter of a miscalculation at sea that could in turn create a new diplomatic row, set off more protests in Chinese cities, and strike another blow at Japanese business caught in the crossfire. Hopes of polite negotiations are also off the map for now."Only when Japan faces up to its aggressive past can it embrace the future and develop friendly relations with its Asian neighbors," Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a news conference on Monday.As if the 80 pro-Tokyo activists weren’t enough to upset Beijing, that same day 168 Japanese lawmakers visited a Shinto shrine that’s reviled elsewhere in Asia for memorializing World War II heroes. Japan occupied parts of China from 1931 to 1945. Three cabinet ministers had already visited Yasukuni Shrine over the weekend, causing calculated reaction.In protest, a high-level Chinese military official bailed on a trip this week to Japan as the foreign ministry lashed out. And China’s surveillance vessels probably weren’t loaded with olive branches. The Communist country has increasingly jousted with Japan since around 2005 as it rose to become the world’s second largest economy.“Such an intrusion [in the East China Sea] was certainly not undertaken spontaneously, but would have been planned and coordinated some time in advance for execution as soon as an opportunity presented itself,” says Scott Harold, associate political scientist with US-based think tank the RAND Corporation.Japan controls the disputed islets, which it calls the Senkakus, despite 40 years of competing claims from China and a wave of destructive anti-Japanese street protests in Chinese cities last year. China criticizes the Shinto shrine visits because a memorial at the venue also honors 14 major war criminals.The two sides are also disputing rights to an undersea natural gas field, while China periodically accuses Japan of not apologizing for the war of the 1940s. Japan says it has apologized. Will the two keep meeting, along with South Korea, to discuss a three-way trade agreement? After momentum last month, the latest raises concern that this puts progress on ice.“Both sides need to be more flexible,” suggests Ralph Cossa, president withUS think tank Pacific Forum Center for Strategic and International Studies. “Japan needs to acknowledge th at the territory is in dispute, at least from a Chinese perspective, and the Chinese need to acknowledge that they are under Japan’s administrative control and that a military solution is unacceptable.”

Related stories

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 24 Apr 2013 02:20

Is it a coincidence that China is needling us when the U.S is busy domestically with the Boston bombings? Recall 1962 invasion during Cuban missile crisis.

Or this could be a probing incursion to see our responsiveness and ability to mobilize both the Army and public opinion. Our response has to be firm and unequivocal. As others have suggested, a counter intrusion is the least we should do if persuasion fails.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 24 Apr 2013 03:54

India's Foreign Minister speaks:

Khurshid puts Li's visit above Chinese incursion

"The incident should not be allowed to turn into a dampener for the premier's visit because the visit is very important for both sides. The visit will spell continuity from a very successful relationship between their previous leadership and our Prime Minister,'' he said, expressing hope that the result of the flag meetings will be satisfactory.

Khurshid is the most anti-Indian foreign minister India has ever had. He should be sacked immediately. The Chinese PM's visit needs to be cancelled immediately. If the Prime Minister of India shakes hands and smiles nicely at the Chinese PM, we will know what a bunch of duffers and losers we have running the Government of India.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Apr 2013 04:49

There is always divergence between the external affairs minitsry and the defence ministry (this is true in other countries as well). Then, the PM has to decide and resolve the conflict. Once a particular course of action is decided upon, then everybody should fall in line. The MEA may continue to propagate overtly a certain view as part of the strategy. So, we can never take the words uttered by the MEA as gospel. Do we have the confidence that a resolute decision has at last been taken as the flag meetings seem to have failed ?

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 24 Apr 2013 04:52

Strain on Indo-Sino ties as troops face off - HT

Uncertainty threatened high-level bilateral visits as Indian troops stayed locked eyeball-to-eyeball with 22 intruding Chinese soldiers in Ladakh on Tuesday and a flag meeting between the two sides flopped.

Senior officials on both sides swung into action to try and rescue visits by defence minister AK Antony to Beijing and Chinese premier Li Keqiang to India next month but sources warned that their job was getting tougher as the Chinese intrusion looked set to enter its ninth day.

“The visits have now gone back to the drawing board as the face-off has injected sourness into growing India-China ties,” said a senior official on the Indian side, adding it would be difficult for New Delhi to go ahead with the visits given the strength of public opinion against the Chinese.

Chinese troops are more than 15 km inside Indian territory, and external affairs ministry spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said the “face-to-face situation between the border personnel was due to differences on the alignment along the Line of Actual Control”.

And the Chinese just keep telling lies ...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Apr 2013 04:54

Jhujar wrote:Tweet form a Fauji

Lt Gen H S Panag(R) ‏@rwac48 2h
19.#Standoff:China feels most vulnerable from SSN due proximity to Aksai Chin-Xingiang Highway.Pre/in 62 ops commenced from SSN.

Let us also feel 'vulnerable' then and do something similar. The Chinese PLA should then be able to understand.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 24 Apr 2013 05:05

SSridhar wrote:There is always divergence between the external affairs minitsry and the defence ministry (this is true in other countries as well). Then, the PM has to decide and resolve the conflict. Once a particular course of action is decided upon, then everybody should fall in line. The MEA may continue to propagate overtly a certain view as part of the strategy. So, we can never take the words uttered by the MEA as gospel. Do we have the confidence that a resolute decision has at last been taken as the flag meetings seem to have failed ?

SS, one thing is to disagree behind closed doors. This foreign minister instead of defending India's territory and position in public is talking about how great the relations are with China. The Chinese foreign ministry knowing full well that the PLA is 10-15 km inside India has toed the Chinese state's "party line". This is not the first time either that Khurshid demonstrates his empathy for India's enemies in his public statements; even after our soldiers were beheaded, his response was conciliatory towards Pakistan, about wishing to preserve the "peace process", etc.

No sign of any resolute decision from India; except the story in the HT that the Chinese PM's visit cannot go ahead under the present circumstances. Also, a slightly odd story in the Indian Express about the Chinese asking India to not build fortifications on our side of the LAC in exchange for pulling out of DBO:

To pull back, China wants India to give up its posts

China has asked the Indian Army to destroy certain fortified positions in the so-called disputed territory in eastern Ladakh in return for the PLA removing its temporary camp in Depsang valley, now at the centre of a military face-off.

Sources said a flag meeting on Tuesday — the second since the Chinese incursion on April 15 — failed after the Chinese side made its demand. The Indian side was not willing to make a commitment, and that led to an impasse, the sources said.

The sources said that Indian fortifications that have come up recently in eastern Ladakh are in an area different from the one where the current faceoff is taking place. No official word was forthcoming on the flag meeting.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Apr 2013 06:33

install a small AA unit, block their land route and let them cordially know that
- any attempt at aerial incursion will attract MANPADS now
- any attempt to escape by land will be intercepted and they will be arrested, disarmed, flown to delhi and handed over to red cross for repatriation after media interview and parade (loss of face) - install a mobile armour and infantry unit 500m from them to block any escape route.
- they are welcome to sit there and starve if they want.
- install some loudspeakers and bombard their camp with bappi lahiri music 24x7 (cruel I know, against geneva convention, but what to do we are cruel yindoo onlee)
- periodically bring in sanitation trucks and dump the human waste and rotting kitchen garbage in heaps upwind from their camp - let them smell the fragrant jasmines of yindoostan , catch 100s of live rats and release them next to the camp to sit there and run riot

thats it, no need to fire a shot immediately.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Apr 2013 06:53

Times Now channel reporting that China is unwilling to accept that its troops are on Indian territory. So, it is now very clear that from the very beginning, they had planned this incursion. There can therefore be no more pretension of 'differing perception' or 'not sharply defined border' etc. excuses from our side. Military retaliation is the only alternative.

It is now clear that the Chinese planned this incident just ahead of the Chinese PM's visit and after homilies by President Xi Jinping kindled a sense of expectation in Indian leaders and bureaucracy. Their thinking is that this would put the Indian leaders in a dilemma and they would decide not to react in the interests of relationship.