J&K News and Discussion-2011

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Pranav
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Pranav »

Video report on Udhampur Qazikund section railway construction - http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-i ... ory/236272
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Sachin »

viv wrote:My family members also recently returned from Kashmir and enjoyed the stay. No issues. They said that the traders seem desperate for business.
During a trip we made in 2006, I could also sense the same feeling. I a pretty cold night we were staying at a house boat and had some discussion with the owner and the crew (his sons) of the house boat. The owner said that once they used to make huge profits because of the tourists and now all of them is dried up. House boats cost a fortune and they are not getting any great money out of it. One of the sons admitted that he was a "misguided youth" :roll: once, but have now realised the follies and the importance of people coming in etc. etc. The shops at boulevard also seems to be selling Kashmiri stuff at a reasonable rate. From what I could make out, again these folks are not getting customers.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by jamwal »

Sudarshan jii
How did they manage to reach there ? I think people need a permit for this. Must be an amazing experience traveling so far. how was the tour organised ?

As many posters have mentioned above, it's too soon to be optimistic about peace situation there. Militancy has been dead for a long time as Kashmiris hardly have the stomach for violence when there is any chance for a blowback. But untill this Islam bug is cured, there can't be any peace. BTW, I'd careful about traders being desperate and thus selling stuff at reasonable prices thing.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by sudarshan »

jamwal wrote:Sudarshan jii
How did they manage to reach there ? I think people need a permit for this. Must be an amazing experience traveling so far. how was the tour organised ?

As many posters have mentioned above, it's too soon to be optimistic about peace situation there. Militancy has been dead for a long time as Kashmiris hardly have the stomach for violence when there is any chance for a blowback. But untill this Islam bug is cured, there can't be any peace. BTW, I'd careful about traders being desperate and thus selling stuff at reasonable prices thing.
Hmm - I don't know about the permit. A friend of my father's, one Sikh who is settled in Kashmir, arranged everything. He's studying in S. India now. He has an ancestral home and family in Kashmir. Don't know how he managed to retain it through all the terrorism. He was the one who mooted the idea of taking my father with family and colleagues all the way from S. India to Kashmir. So it wasn't a packaged tour.

My wife went in the '90s (long before we were married). That was during the height of militancy, and she said ordinary people were lamenting to her father about how the terrorism had given the rest of India a false impression about Kashmir. They wanted her and her family to tell Indians that Kashmir was safe, and not to fall for the media hype about grenade attacks, and to come see for themselves. But then some bus driver refused to take my wife's family on board to some place. Memories are hazy, what with it being over 20 years ago. "Don't you like being hale and healthy with your wife and kids?" was what he asked her father.

Is the situation conducive for an A 370 repeal and KP return? Not asking about political situation wrt GOI. How about the situation on the ground in Kashmir?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Advait »

Realistically speaking, KPs are not going to return unless there is total sea change in Indian setup.

China has reduced Muslims in Xinjiang to a minority, Thai gov arms Buddhists in southern Thailand where there is a Muslim insurgency and even Myanmar takes strong steps against them.

But here any such step is not even close to consideration.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by shyamd »

Devotees throng Baba Budh Giri fest in Poonch
Behram Galla , Wed, 20 Jun 2012 ANI

Behram Galla (Jammu and Kashmir), June 20 (ANI): Scores of Hindu, Muslim and Sikh devotees gathered at a temple to attend the annual Baba Budh Giri festival in Poonch district.

The temple, which is located in Muslim -dominated village, is managed by Muslims.

Abdul Aziz Butt,a temple caretaker, said Muslims were happy to receive devotees in large numbers.

Offerings from devotees are enough to manage the temple's affairs for the year, Butt said.

"The festival is celebrated on a very large scale and funds gathered on the occasion are enough to survive a year. We do not differentiate in a temple or a mosque. We have been taking care of this temple and by God's grace, we will continue doing it in coming years as well," he said.

The temple, situated in Pir Panjal range of the Valley has withstood attacks by militants.

" When militancy was at its peak, we never let militants destroy it. Our children and wives have sacrificed our lives in protecting it," Butt added.

A mass feast is organised for the devotees during the annual festival.

Bushan Kumar Dutta, one of the organisers of the event, said that it was only because of joint efforts that they were able to host festivities on such a large scale.

He, however, expressed displeasure over the lack of assistance from the government.

"Inspite of increasing militancy, our Muslim brothers have always supported and helped us in taking care of this temple. We host a mass feast twice a year in which people from all the faiths participate. However, I want to express my unhappiness that government has never given any financial assistance to us despite such large gathering of devotees from all religions," Dutta said.

He further explained the support of the local Muslims in the upkeep of temple.

"They (local Muslims) have been associated with temple since 1980. They have renovated this temple, which was destroyed thrice or four times, and they had not taken any money for that. These people revere this temple more than a mosque," Dutta added. (ANI)
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by jamwal »

Same Punchie muslims who mutinied, killed their Hindu officers and fellow soldiers in J&k state' forces and joined in looting and genocide when Paki 'kabayalis' attacked. strange how political correctness and secularism works


Ack thoo
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Mahendra »

:rotfl:
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Mahendra »

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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by RamaY »

Mahdi

Did you see the comments of Truth from Dubai? Read them and shiver in your dhoti!
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Roperia »

In Kashmir, killing Ebbs, but killers roam free

and so lectures the NYT, complete one sided story!
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by svinayak »

And published by NDTV

Npw NDTV looks like the UK Guardian!
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by hulaku »

The pig Shabir Shah got his face blackened and heckled by people who raised anti-seperatists slogans (apparently as per the news report) and drove them away. Poor azadi seekers.
Shah and his associate Nayeem Khan had tried to stage a protest march near the 200-year-old shrine, but the local people raised anti-separatists slogans. The separatists had given a shutdown call in the valley against the incident of fire. People had booted out Shah and his associate accusing them of only seeking their own interests. They had even blackened the separatist leaders' faces.
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/dast ... 02667.html

AoA.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by sum »

^^ The same people also were shouting anti-India slogans and damaged 19 fire tenders+govt vehicles even as the firemen were trying to put out the fire!

So, wouldnt read much into it.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by shyamd »

Kashmir militants give up fight and head home
Twenty years after they took up arms to fight Indian rule in the Kashmir valley, hundreds of local insurgents are now returning to their homes after renouncing militancy.

The reasons are diminishing support from the Pakistani government, a realisation that the "Kashmir jihad" is going nowhere and a promise of amnesty by the Indian government.

"It's no use staying on here," says former militant Mohammad Ahsan who lives in Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistani-administered Kashmir.

He is now preparing to leave for his home in Srinagar valley on the Indian side.

"The jihad is over, and poverty is catching on to us; it's better to live on your own land and around your own people than in virtual exile where one day you'll be forced to beg for a living," says Mr Ashan.

He has managed to put together 130,000 Pakistani rupees ($1,500; £960) to buy air tickets to the Nepalese capital, Kathmandu, for himself, his wife and two children. From there he will cross into India to reach Srinagar.
Futile militancy

Militant circles say there are about 3,000 to 4,000 former Kashmiri fighters stranded in and around Muzaffarabad.

Many want to return home, but some do not have the means to pay for the journey.

India and Pakistan both claim Kashmir - they have fought two wars over the territory.

A Line of Control (LoC) divides a narrow strip of Pakistan-administered Kashmir from the bulk of the region, which is held by India.

Beginning in 1988, thousands of Kashmiri youths from the Indian side crossed over the LoC into Pakistan to train in guerrilla warfare, arm themselves and then go back to fight Indian forces in their homeland.

They kept Kashmir on the boil for a decade during the 1990s, but were increasingly frustrated when Pakistani groups, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Al-Badr and Harkatul Mujahideen started to gain ascendancy in the "Kashmir jihad".

These groups brought with them greater resources to eclipse local groups, and professed foreign religious ideologies that were less tolerant of local sensibilities.

By the mid-2000s, after tens of thousands of Kashmiris had been killed in the uprising without shaking Indian rule, the futility of the militant-driven movement was becoming obvious and there was increased international pressure on Pakistan to withdraw support to these groups.
'Normal lives'

The gradual winding down of the movement has left the bulk of the native Kashmiri fighters in a state of suspended animation.
Policeman injured in an attack by militants in Indian-administered Kashmir (May 2012) Militants still operate in Kashmir, but the insurgency could be running out of steam

Those who could raise funds for a journey back home decided to test an earlier offer of amnesty by the Indian government.

Others have simply been sulking as return routes across the LoC - which would be a much cheaper option - are still closed to them.

During 2011, roughly 100 former militants left Pakistan along with their families and returned to their native villages on the Indian side.

Their fate was closely watched by fighters still stranded in Pakistan.

"Nothing bad happened to them," says Rafiq Ahmed, another former fighter in Muzaffarabad who has been in touch with some of the returnees.

"They were held by the Indian police for debriefing for a few days, and were then released. They are now living normal lives."


Thus emboldened, more than 500 fighters have returned to their native homes on the Indian side during the first five months of 2012, says Ghulam Mohammad, a former insurgent who is close to the people involved with the repatriation issues of Kashmiri militants.

"Most of them were married and they have also taken along their families - some 1,000 to 1,500 people in all," he says.
Cash strapped

Mr Mohammad says that between 10 and 15 former fighters are leaving Pakistan every week, along with their families.

The gradual winding down of the movement has left the bulk of the native Kashmiri fighters in a state of suspended animation”

They fly to Kathmandu on a Pakistani passport. From there they cross into India and reach Kashmir, where the returning men report to the local police to confirm their arrival.

"The Kathmandu route has two advantages; it is familiar to former militants and their 'handlers' who used it in the past to smuggle militants into India, and it is away from the public glare and therefore suitable to keep this exodus under wraps," he says.

The insurgents' departure comes amid reports of drastic cuts in the money which militant circles say the Pakistani security establishment used to pay them for their activities.

According to these circles, the practice of disbursing funds to various groups for operations inside Indian-administered Kashmir was stopped by the military government of former president Pervez Musharraf in 2006.

In recent months, they say, Pakistan has halved the funds which it still pays to these groups to meet their establishment expenses - such as office rent, stationery, transport, fuel or food.

Militant sources say that these funds can barely support small groups of core activists within each of roughly a dozen Kashmiri militant organisations that still run offices in Pakistani-administered Kashmir.

Pakistan denies giving the insurgents any support other than moral and diplomatic backing for their movement.

Although many former militants say those who have gone back in recent months have benefited from the Indian amnesty, some who have already returned to the Indian side told the BBC they have been disappointed by the lack of opportunities in their native land and are finding it difficult to rebuild their lives.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ramana »

So it begins as written by Gen Padmanabhan in his book. He is off by only four years.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by krisna »

Jammu and Kashmir -- Moving On
We need to do a few things to bring normalcy in Kashmir that go beyond tourism statistics. We need to go beyond the tokenism of nomenclature. We need to keep Pakistan out of the equation. We need to genuinely empower the elected government and its representatives and allow the state to be governed from Srinagar and not from Delhi. This means we need to ignore this group called the Hurriyat that represents at best themselves but usually Pakistani interests or periodic threats that political space grows from the barrel of a gun. We must not treat this is a Hindu-Muslim affair but bring back the Kashmiriyat, which also means the Kashmiri Pandits must feel safe enough to return.
Statesmanship in Jammu and Kashmir does not mean coddling separatists with higher subsidies or promising the moon. Instead, statesmanship demands that we make realistic attainable promises. We also make it clear that there is no question of independence to ten districts in the Kashmir Valley on any basis and specially on the basis of religion. So Azadi is out.
Meanwhile, New Delhi should tell those with grievances in the Valley that they would be treated just as any other Indian would be treated in Bihar, Tamil Nadu or Assam. A truly fair treatment is also about equality with the rest of the country.
( IOW Remove article 370)
Kashmiri youth also need to get out of their beautiful Valley and see the rest of their country, just as we find a Bihari in Mumbai or a Malayalee in Sikkim or a Sikh in Kolkata. There are opportunities waiting for them, or any one who has the talent and the determination to succeed.
Our leaders in New Delhi and those unelected leaders in Srinagar, must realise the basic truth that problems in Jammu and Kashmir will not be solved through Pakistan. It is in Pakistan military’s vital interests to keep the Kashmiri pot boiling to preserve its primacy under the age old dream that the partition is incomplete without Kashmir. Pakistan is not interested in the Muslims of the Valley but in the water from the rivers that flow and irrigate the plains of the Punjab. A country that treats its own Muslims in the manner it does, is hardly likely to treat the Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir any better.
Statecraft would also have to ensure that the Kashmiri Pandits who left their state are allowed to return.
Kashmir and Kashmiriyat cannot be complete without its Pandits. Nor can we continue to dwell in the past that only encourages victimhood. If there has to be a ‘moving on’ it has to be all inclusive.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by chaanakya »

First step should be to give property rights to those marrying non Kashmiris and also allow purchase of properties by Non Kashmiris.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by RamaY »

^ IIRC the Kashmiri males can marry outsiders and then pass their properties to next generations right? We need to extend this to Kashmiri woman - universally. Then let the ball rolling....
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by sum »

Interesting developments:
Police seal properties of militant sympathisers
In an unprecedented action in more than two decades of militancy, Jammu and Kashmir Police have attached properties of a separatist leader and a militant sympathiser for allegedly raising property by terror money and funding militants through covert channels.

The house of separatist leader Ghulam Mohammad Khan was sealed and attached by the police in Natipora here on Saturday. The order number 1762/2012 issued by the Director General Police reveals that Khan amassed wealth by acting as a conduit to the banned Harkat-e-Jihadi-Islami outfit and acquired a house for strengthening the designs of the outfit in Srinagar.

“On perusal of records and evidence collected by I/O (Investigating Officer) in the course of investigations so far, I am satisfied that a case of seizure of property has been made out,” the order reads.

Khan, an active leader of the hardline Hurriyat faction headed by Syed Ali Geelani, along with his wife and four children, were evacuated from their house at Maisuma Colony, Natipora, by the police and local administration officials.
Under UAPA provisions, property of a person could be seized if there is sufficient proof that the place is raised by terror money or could be used for terror activities.
In another case, the police attached the house and nearly two acres of land belonging to Abdul Razaq Lone and his son Abdul Hamid of Wugbugh, Sopore, in north Kashmir, after they were allegedly found involved in funding militancy through covert channels.

“This property is attached under section 25 of ULA (P) Act and shall not be transferred or dealt otherwise without the prior permission of the investigating officer,” read the placards erected at the attached spots of the property.
“It was established that brother of the accused Abdul Hamid namely Abdul Majeed who is a member of banned terrorist organization Hizb-ul-Mujahideen is presently based in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK),” a police spokesperson said, adding that Majeed had asked Hamid to transfer the value share of his landed property to him through militant channels.

“Hamid has already handed over an amount of Rs 3 lakh as an instalment of the value share of the property of his brother to the militants of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) operating in Sopore,” he claimed.

Superintendent Police, Sopore, Imtiyaz Hussain told Deccan Herald that based on credible evidence that the remaining portion of the land and house was likely to be used for funding the terrorist organisation, the property was attached.

“Some other cases of militant funding in Sopore area have also surfaced during the course of investigation for which action under law is being contemplated and none will be spared,” he warned.

In 2001, house of a militant supporter was sealed under Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance (POTO) in the old city area of Srinagar.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Roperia »

Opinion pieice by Radha Kumar, one of the three Interlocutors appointed by our HM for Jammu and Kashmir

Starting an informed debate on Kashmir | The Hindu

I'm all for devolution of power but why only for J&K, why not for all the other states Ms Radha Kumar?

This appeasement of separatists must stop. People of J&K must be told that they'll get all the rights as any other Indian citizen and they would have to live with the many problems folks in rest of the country have to deal with.

AFSPA must stay as long as people think they can point a gun to India's head while chasing an Islamic mirage. The one's that set out to achieve that in 47 (our neighbor to the west), seem much farther away from it than the day they started.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ramana »

Image

Caption: Pakistani foreign secretary Jalil Abbas Jilani and Hurriyat leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani are seen after a meeting at high commission of Pakistan, in New Delhi. PTI/Vijay Verma

See the familiarity with the TSP official.
Total RNI.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ManuT »

NDTV
Two Army jawans shot at point blank range in J&K, one killed
Written by Mala Das | Updated: July 07, 2012 16:48 IST
Pampore, Jammu and Kashmir:  An Army jawan has been killed after he was shot at point blank range by suspected militants in Pampore in Jammu and Kashmir. 

Another jawan has been injured in the incident. His condition is stated to be critical.

The suspected militants also took away a weapon.

More details are awaited.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Pranay »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/opini ... .html?_r=1
LAST September, a lawmaker in Indian-controlled Kashmir stood up in the state’s legislative assembly and spoke of a valley filled with human carcasses near his home constituency in the mountains: “In our area, there are big gorges, where there are the bones of several hundred people who were eaten by crows.”

I read about this in faraway London and was filled with a chill — I had written of a similar valley, a fictional one, in my novel about the lost boys of Kashmir. The assembly was debating a report on the uncovering of more than 2,000 unmarked and mass graves not far from the Line of Control that divides Indian- and Pakistani-controlled Kashmir. The report, by India’s government-appointed State Human Rights Commission, marked the first official acknowledgment of the presence of mass graves. More significantly, the report found that civilians, potentially the victims of extrajudicial killings, may be buried at some of the sites.

Corpses were brought in by the truckload and buried on an industrial scale. The report cataloged 2,156 bullet-riddled bodies found in mountain graves and called for an inquiry to identify them. Many were men described as “unidentified militants” killed in fighting with soldiers during the armed rebellion against Indian rule during the 1990s, but according to the report, more than 500 were local residents. “There is every probability,” the report concluded, that the graves might “contain the dead bodies of enforced disappearances,” a euphemism for people who have been detained, abducted, taken away by armed forces or the police, often without charge or conviction, and never seen again.
The Indian government must do what may seem inconceivable to the hawks in the military establishment but is long overdue. Before it can even begin to contemplate negotiating a lasting political solution in consultation with Kashmiris it must act to deliver justice — for the parents of the disappeared; for the young lives brutally extinguished in 2010; for the innocent dead stealthily buried in unmarked graves in the mountains; for the Kashmiris languishing in Indian prisons without any legal recourse; for the exiled Kashmiri Hindu Pandits who fled in 1990 after some were targeted and killed by militants; and for the mother of Sameer Rah, who still doesn’t know why her young son was bludgeoned to death and his body left by a curb.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:Image

Caption: Pakistani foreign secretary Jalil Abbas Jilani and Hurriyat leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani are seen after a meeting at high commission of Pakistan, in New Delhi. PTI/Vijay Verma

See the familiarity with the TSP official.
Total RNI.

Isn't he the same rat who was declared persona no grata for being caught red handed carry paki money to the hurrirats?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by sum »

chetak wrote: Isn't he the same rat who was declared persona no grata for being caught red handed carry paki money to the hurrirats?
Expelled then, honoured guest now
Nine years ago, India expelled one Jalil Abbas Jilani, chargé d’affaires or acting high commissioner for Pakistan, for allegedly supplying funds to Hurriyat leaders.

For the past two days, the same man has been India’s guest, discussing with India’s foreign secretary Ranjan Mathai how to improve trust between their two countries.

Jilani, now Pakistan’s foreign secretary, wrapped up the two-day talks with Mathai in New Delhi this evening.

His February 8, 2003, expulsion — a little over a year after the December 2001 Parliament attack — had brought bilateral ties to a new low, prompting Islamabad to reply with the tit-for-tat expulsion of Indian envoy Sudhir Vyas.

Today, Jilani did not forget to make a “courtesy call” on a man whose hawkish stand on Pakistan had been instrumental in his 2003 expulsion. He dropped in at the bungalow of L.K. Advani, the then home minister whose department had pushed Delhi police to compile evidence against Jilani.
But the situation had turned ugly in February 2003. India officially accused Jilani of “indulging in activities incompatible with his official status”. He was given just 48 hours to leave India though an expelled diplomat is usually given seven days. India also expelled four other Pakistan high commission officials.

The then Indian foreign ministry spokesperson had said that Jilani’s activities “were not meant to improve relations”.

Pakistan dubbed India’s action “diplomatic terrorism” and within hours, expelled Vyas, giving him 48 hours too. India accused Pakistan of pursuing the path of “confrontation, compulsive hostility and brinkmanship”.

Over the years, the police case against Jilani and Hurriyat leaders has meandered to a non-conclusion. Little has been proved, suggesting politics and the backdrop of the Parliament attack — which saw a border standoff between the two militaries — had contributed to Jilani’s expulsion.

Sources said Advani’s hard line on Pakistan, as opposed to then Prime Minister A.B. Vajpayee’s more moderate stance, had led to Jilani’s expulsion. That did not stop Advani from receiving the Pakistani diplomat warmly today and having a half-hour private discussion with him.

Chances are that Vyas, who has a few years of service left, may become India’s foreign secretary in a couple of years and end up visiting Pakistan. Currently, he is secretary (economic relations) in the foreign ministry.
So it was evil Hindutva created by Advani which led him to be expelled else he was a saint onlee...

Really wonder why our DDM specializes in scoring self-goals like this by creating bogeys when there are none.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ManuT »

Friday, 7 February, 2003, 13:33 GMT
Pakistan envoy denies militant cash

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2735305.stm
Pakistan's acting High Commissioner in Delhi, Jalil Abbas Jilani, has dismissed as "absolute rubbish" claims by Indian police that he handed over thousands of dollars to fund Kashmiri militancy.

Indian police arrested two people on Thursday under controversial new anti-terrorism legislation.
Police said one of those arrested was carrying more than $6,000 in cash, which she said Mr Jilani had given her.
It is just not DDM, for THAT person to be allowed back as a diplomat speaks volumes how the process is handled from the Indian side.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by sunnyP »

Sources said Advani’s hard line on Pakistan, as opposed to then Prime Minister A.B. Vajpayee’s more moderate stance, had led to Jilani’s expulsion. That did not stop Advani from receiving the Pakistani diplomat warmly today and having a half-hour private discussion with him.
What on earth is LKA thinking? Why is he even entertaining such a man?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ManuT »

x post
ManuT wrote:A slightly more updated figure.
---

40,000 people killed in Kashmir revolt: India


Aug 10, 2011|AFP| New Delhi


http://www.asianage.com/india/40000-peo ... -india-831
Nearly 40,000 people have been killed in violence linked to a rebellion in Kashmir that erupted more than two decades ago, the national parliament was told on Wednesday.

Junior home minister Jitendra Prasad said 39,918 had died including 21,323 'terrorists'.

"As per reports, 13,226 civilians and 5,369 security force personnel have been killed in terrorist violence in Jammu and Kashmir during the period from year 1990 to April 2011," the minister told parliament.

The figure is lower than the official police count in Indian Kashmir of more than 47,000 dead. Some rights groups in Kashmir say the toll could be close to 100,000 from the revolt which began in late 1989.
It is to be taken the number specified by an Indian Minister in a reply to a question in Indian Parliament is correct.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ManuT »

Re: NYT article (First of all, no access, and no author name so do not which mahapurush wrote it, so my respects)

No doubt IA got them, but TSP which was pushing them in a proxy war surely was keen on accepting the dead back just like it was for its own NLI. But how many was deliberate targeting of civilians? Where it has occured no doubt it should be punished.

No doubt some would get caught in a crossfire, but 'crossfires' like these?
Srinagar, January 3, 2011

Prof. Abdul Gani Bhat, a leader of the Hurriyat Conference's moderate faction, categorically said on Sunday that the security forces had played no role in the killings of separatist leaders Mirwaiz Maulvi Muhammad Farooq and Abdul Gani Lone as well as Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) ideologue Prof. Abdul Ahad Wani.

Instead, he pointed an accusing finger towards an insider hand. "Lone sahib, Mirwaiz Farooq and Prof. Wani were not killed by the army or the police. They were targeted by our own people. The story is a long one, but we have to tell the truth," he said candidly. Bhat, however, did not elaborate on what had transpired when the murders took place. He also did not mention the name of any terrorist group which killed them.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/sepa ... 25374.html


Surely, gun toting kashmiri cadres of HM, JLKF (or whichever local kashmiri outfit) even when they are firing from behind the crowd have rights. But the question is do those rights extend to TSP's Pakjabi cadres of LeT too and assorted fighters from Afghan war? (After hijacking of IC814)

In Kashmir valley is a very strange kind of HR violations are taking place, one in which an alleged majority in the valley is repressed but in the process, the minority was the one which was kicked out.
ManuT
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ManuT »

X-post
AbhiJ wrote:For Allah's Sake, I killed my Fellow Mohmmedians, Not Indian Army
For years, the Army was blamed for the Chhattisinghpora massacre. But now, it now out the bloodbath was orchestrated by Lashkar's operational head, Muzammil Butt.
it was Muzammil, then operating in Kashmir, who along with dozen men in Army fatigues went to the village in Kashmir's Anantnag district on March 25, 2000 and killed 35 Sikhs.
Sources said Jundal's interrogation had revealed that Muzammil, along with his associates, drew all the men of the village out of their homes and asked them to gather near the village gurdwara. The Lashkar men then shot 35 Sikhs in cold blood.
The revelation is significant given that sections of Kashmiri political parties and civil rights activists in the country have always asserted that it was the handiwork of the Indian Army.
Muzammil, who home minister P Chidambaram recently said had replaced Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi as LeT's operational head
ManuT
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ManuT »

State policy and jihad

Editorial

Published: July 9, 2012

http://tribune.com.pk/story/405847/stat ... and-jihad/
The world will be shocked to read this in the Pakistani press: ‘Militants fighting Indian rule in Kashmir and US-led foreign forces in Afghanistan are raising funds and recruiting potential fighters in the cities and towns of Pakistan’. One report covered Rawalpindi, where Al-Badr Mujahideen and a faction of Hizbul Mujahideen organised a shuhada (martyrs) conference meant for raising funds and recruiting new militants in a collapsing Pakistani economy where people can no longer find jobs.

There were other jihadists represented at the conference: Gulbuddin Hekmatyar’s Hizb-e-Islami Afghanistan, Jamaatud Dawa and several unnamed gangs. Al-Badr leader Bakht Zameen told 1,000-plus supporters that ‘his commanders were seeking resources to keep the jihad going in Kashmir and Afghanistan’. He had supporters from Punjab, Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and Azad Jammu and Kashmir thronging stalls, selling propaganda CDs and jihadi literature
The leader of Hizbul Mujahideen and a fugitive from Indian-administered Kashmir, Syed Salahuddin, told the gathering that Pakistan had been ‘encircled by the US and its Nato allies’: “Pakistan is the target of the US-Israeli nexus. Our fighters are defending Pakistan at a time when its geographical boundaries, security and Islamic identity are at risk”.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by svinayak »

ManuT wrote:
The leader of Hizbul Mujahideen and a fugitive from Indian-administered Kashmir, Syed Salahuddin, told the gathering that Pakistan had been ‘encircled by the US and its Nato allies’: “Pakistan is the target of the US-Israeli nexus. Our fighters are defending Pakistan at a time when its geographical boundaries, security and Islamic identity are at risk”.


Very important to understand this.
The paranoia of Pakistan must be deeply analysed

The fall of the economy means that they need to liberalize which means dilution of sharia.

Once secular space is created then reverse islamism can be acheived.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ManuT »

Just an observation

Recently a dress code fatwa was announced on tourists on the Kashmir valley. Whoever did that should told to STFU.

23 years ago, a dress code fatwa for school girls was announced by a terrorist organisation in the Kashmir valley. We know how it turned out.

It did not take long for KPs to be kicked out from the valley after that.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by hulaku »

I remember when that happened 23 years ago and I was a school boy. My Mom actually started wearing a Bindi everytime she went out, so that the Jihadis knew that she was non-Muslim as the Jihadis had advised the same to all non-Muslims. Those were the days.

And now its back but only for tourists. Just when we have converted our house into a heritage B&B in Srinagar. B@stards.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by shyamd »

Kashmir’s Torture Trail - video excerpt
Qadir Dar was a militant commander who led 10,000 men in the Muslim Janbaz Force, and who fought India until the mid-1990s, when he was captured. In this clip from a new documentary, he recounts the torture meted out to surrendered militants

* Kashmir's Torture Trail is broadcast on Tuesday 10 July on Channel 4

On British tv tonight http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... sfeed=true

C4 has a special thing for kashmir. Let's see what they say
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by sunnyP »

shyamd wrote:Kashmir’s Torture Trail - video excerpt
Qadir Dar was a militant commander who led 10,000 men in the Muslim Janbaz Force, and who fought India until the mid-1990s, when he was captured. In this clip from a new documentary, he recounts the torture meted out to surrendered militants

* Kashmir's Torture Trail is broadcast on Tuesday 10 July on Channel 4

On British tv tonight http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... sfeed=true

C4 has a special thing for kashmir. Let's see what they say

Typical one sided rhetoric from Ch4. The simplest way to solve this is open up J&K to all Indians. Encourage migration from other parts of India into Kashmir. Dwarf their population numbers and then lets see how far their cries of 'azaadi' go.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Yayavar »

Was there any hue and cry over the immigrant electrician going to work on the 'underground' who was killed by the London police on mere suspicion of 'wires'? At the same time torture certainly is a hard thing to swallow - for it can be used against people like Col Purohit. Not that UK or US or other countries dont do it.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by Vikas »

So what is so special about torture in India. Visit any Thana and you will see what torture is and how it feels like ?
There is no discrimination against Jehadi terrorists when it comes to torture. Anyways did someone say who recently used Water-Boarding technique on terrorists?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Post by ManuT »

In the 2 bit promo, I saw a person speaking as being from Human Rights Movement and not some former kamandaar of 10,000 of Muslim Janbaaz Force which would be terrorist outfit or even as a former rebel.

So would wait for the documentary first.
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