J&K News and Discussion-2011

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 Aug 2014 17:43

vishvak wrote:Wonder where all so-called seculars have gone....

I wonder what arundatti roy has to say about this? "Er...this is a logical reaction to the thousands of years of Brahmin/Pandit atrocities...uhh..."

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Aug 2014 09:53

X-post:

sum wrote:Mission Kashmir: Modi first PM to visit Kargil since 1999 war

Prime Minister Narendra Modi arrived in the Leh town of the cold desert frontier region of Ladakh on Tuesday morning on a one-day visit.

The PM was received at the Leh airport by state Governor N N Vohra, Chief Minister Omar Abdullah, Chief of the Army Staff General Dalbir Singh Suhag and senior state government and police officers.

On Tuesday, the PM began his visit with Leh, where he is addressing army officers and jawans, who guard the border at a very high altitude, including the world's highest battlefield in the Siachen glacier He will inaugurate the 45-MW Nimoo Bazgo power station in Leh and then address a public rally in the Buddhist dominated down. The rally venue has been tastefully decorated for the visit.

He will later fly to the Muslim-dominated Kargil region where he is inaugurating 44 MW Chutak power project followed by a rally. The rally venue has been bedecked with arches and buntings for the visit. Modi is the first prime minister visit Kargil after the 1999 war.

He will also lay the foundation stone of Rs 1700-crore Leh-Srinagar transmission line. The Ladakh region is right now dependent on small micro-hydel power projects and diesel generating units for power supply.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 12 Aug 2014 11:42

Why pointing out 'Muslim dominated' in the rediff news item above. I don't see Buddhist dominated for Leh ?

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Aug 2014 11:44

X-post:

sum wrote: Mosque comes up at site of "banned" Kouser Nag yatra:

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 13 Aug 2014 16:13

Geelani tells Pakistani leaders to rise above political interests

“It’s because of their (Pakistani rulers’) negligence the Kashmiris are still under (India’s) slavery,” he said

Confused buzzard. So, it's not us, it's you. In other words "But, hey! What about us?"

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 13 Aug 2014 19:15

Cong-NC ‘secularism’ dies its own death in Kounsar Nag

Now that the controversy over holy Kounsar Nag in Kashmir was gradually dying down, Pakistan’s prestigious media house Dawn has come up with a pictorial feature in its multimedia segment on 11th August, showing seven odd young Kashmiri boys offering Namaz in a make-shift prayer place on its magnificent banks in the scenic backdrop of Pir Panchal ranges. Behind those offering prayers lays hanging a huge banner, seeking donations for ‘reconstruction’ of Masjid Sharief, Syed Akbar, Ahrabal. On a corner of the slightly raised stone fencing, stands a tall post fluttering a green flag.

This is exactly the location, which some Kashmiri Pandits claim to have been worshipping from times immemorial as ‘Vishnu Paad’, foot print of Bhagwan Vishnu. The pilgrimage to this lake by about 40 Kashmiri Pandits from the Valley route was allegedly denied, after proper permission, by the District Administration Kulgam, for the fear of causing ecological disaster. Ruling National Conference legislator, Dr Syed Bashir Ahmed Veeri was among the first in mainstream camp to oppose the Yatra, saying, “We must not allow this. These virgin spaces shall be left out of the human intervention as these pose grave threat to Kashmir ecology.” The controversial Congress Minister Ghulam Ahmed Mir vehemently opposed the Yatra, saying it was not a pilgrim destination but will be developed as tourist attraction. The high pitch opposition by separatists and secessionists led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani, who forced Kashmir shut down in protest against the Yatra, is seen by defence experts as a move to keep higher reaches in the Valley out of bounds for ensuring safe havens for terrorists.

With new twist to the holy lake of Kounsar Nag by Dawn of Pakistan, a mischievous impression is sought to be created for raising or ‘reconstructing’ a mosque, which is fraught with the danger of raising passions. The report supporting is quite inflammable and far from facts. For example, the report describes the lake as source to Jhelum River, which is factually incorrect.

Vishwa Hindu Parishad has taken strong exception to communalising the situation and “Islamisation of the State”. Patron VHP J and K Ramakant Dubey told STATE TIMES that the lake has been worshiped by Hindus for over 5,000 years and under a conspiracy and diktat of separatists; a group of Kashmiri Pandits were stopped from proceeding towards this holy place. He threatened of launching an agitation if the Governments continued to succumb to the pressure of separatists.

Senior Bajrang Dal activist and BJP leader, Susheel Sudan said that the matter is being taken up with the central leadership as the “State Government was playing into the hands of separatists”. He expressed regrets over Hindus being denied permission for Yatra while there was nothing wrong with fencing a spot for offering prayers.

Sudan wondered why the Congress minister and National Conference legislator had maintained silence over a make-shift mosque being raised at a place they deem to be kept away from human intervention.

“The development is alarming; it is an attempt to make the lake out of bounds for Hindus either from the Valley or Reasi forever”, he said while seeking immediate corrective measures in the interest of peace and amity.

Recounting the significance of the lake for Kashmiri Pandits, Vinod Dua said that Kashmir owes its name to Saint Kashyap and, therefore, various lakes and mountainous ranges have religious sanctity for them. “This fact cannot be wished away by the so-called secularists or fundamentalists like Geelani, Yasin Malik or Shabir Shah”, he added.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Aug 2014 19:25

Like other mosques it will also be demolished, in time.
this is against the Judgement of Supreme court on Unauthorised construction of religious structure in public places. If not demolished Deputy Commissioner or District Magistrate would be in contempt of SC. I am sure someone from J&K would file the suit.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 13 Aug 2014 23:11

Where are so called secularists now. Seems secularists have no problem when a site sacred to Hindus is encroached upon by Muslims or at silence of powerful politicians in J&K who object only to Hindus performing yatra!

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 14 Aug 2014 10:34

^You are a confirmed sickularist only if you are Anti-Hindu and Liberal only if you want to give away J&K to Bakistan.

James B · Post by **James B** » 19 Aug 2014 17:19

X-post from NGO thread

The Secretary General of Asian Federation Against Involuntary Disappearance (AFAD) — a coalition of over 11 human rights groups — was denied entry into India and deported from Mumbai airport on Sunday night, soon after her arrival from Philippines.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... i-airport/

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Aug 2014 21:36

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Real face of Pakistan exposed

Muzzafarabad, PoK, August 19, 2014: In Muzzafarabad thousands of Kashmir migrants have been dying to return back to their homes in various parts of Jammu and Kashmir but authorities are not letting them come, Pakistan stands exposed as all its promises of good life and heaven turned out to be false, real face and intention of Pakistan is now known to Kashmiris.

The above is the blurb for a Video on the plight of the misguided Mohammaddens who left India for Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) :

Clicky

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 19 Aug 2014 21:46

^ The first rule of journalism is to let the subject tell your story. Note the crude editorialising "Pakistan is fooling the world". That belongs in The Global Times.

Anyway, let these people back.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 19 Aug 2014 22:26

Why sir why ?
Why let these people back. Let them enjoy Paki hospitality for the rest of their lives.
Why should they be allowed back when all they would do is join the army of stone throwers and build few more mosques by demolishing Hindu temples.
I for one would be happy if they face the music of being traitor to motherland. Thank-You, it was nice knowing you, now enjoy the warm climate of your friendly neighborhood of Bakistan. Maybe they can join I'm'DimCan and storm the red zone and see how Islamic Armies deal with Muslims.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 19 Aug 2014 22:33

VikasRaina wrote:Why sir why ?
Why let these people back. Let them enjoy Paki hospitality for the rest of their lives.
Why should they be allowed back when all they would do is join the army of stone throwers and build few more mosques by demolishing Hindu temples.
I for one would be happy if they face the music of being traitor to motherland. Thank-You, it was nice knowing you, now enjoy the warm climate of your friendly neighborhood of Bakistan. Maybe they can join I'm'DimCan and storm the red zone and see how Islamic Armies deal with Muslims.

I agree. You make your bed, you sleep in it. On the issue of Dimmy storming the Red Zone, I don't think D'immy "cashmere-fateh" Khan would want to have cashmeri blood on his election trail.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 19 Aug 2014 22:40

sanjaykumar wrote:^ The first rule of journalism is to let the subject tell your story. Note the crude editorialising "Pakistan is fooling the world". That belongs in The Global Times.

Anyway, let these people back.

Wow...Excellent idea !

-M

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 19 Aug 2014 23:37

Why sir why ?
Why let these people back. Let them enjoy Paki hospitality for the rest of their lives.
Why should they be allowed back when all they would do is join the army of stone throwers and build few more mosques by demolishing Hindu temples.

India has a surfeit of idol smashers as it is. The state and Indian peoples need to be seen to be accepting people recognised as Indians. To put it bluntly it will be a PR coup.

After all are you the same person you were at age nineteen?

member_27845 · Post by **member_27845** » 20 Aug 2014 06:12

For all we know TSP can slip in some jihadists disguised as disgruntled POK residents

We might as well dress up a few of our own KPs ( with some training in get them to speak some POK lingo ) and put up a show if need be to highlight the plight of these people ( and we will have better control over these guys ). We can spin any sort of horror story and come out looking good.

But the real residents of POK long since ceased to be Our People. We shouldn't let even one of these vermin into our country.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 20 Aug 2014 06:37

RoyG wrote:Ah yes, the seeds of purity are spreading. The faster they become radicalized the faster hindus will too. I welcome this development.

There. That's better now.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 20 Aug 2014 23:56

sanjaykumar wrote:Why sir why ?
Why let these people back. Let them enjoy Paki hospitality for the rest of their lives.
Why should they be allowed back when all they would do is join the army of stone throwers and build few more mosques by demolishing Hindu temples.

India has a surfeit of idol smashers as it is. The state and Indian peoples need to be seen to be accepting people recognised as Indians. To put it bluntly it will be a PR coup.

After all are you the same person you were at age nineteen?

I like the clarity of thought here. In fact we can extend this logic by rehabilitating all and sundry whose four fathers moved to Pakistan/Bangladesh post partition. After all, it was not they who decided to chose Pakistan over India but their four fathers.

-M

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Aug 2014 00:05

The mercenary Indian media chatteratti are getting worried that BJP will form next govt in J&K and ask for repeal of Art 370. The cresendo is rising.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Aug 2014 01:21

ramana wrote:The mercenary Indian media chatteratti are getting worried that BJP will form next govt in J&K and ask for repeal of Art 370. The cresendo is rising.

Shias from Gilgit Baltistan have asked GOI to consider them as Indian Nationals and its time they be allowed to have say in J&k Assembly. If PM Modi can pull the above, he will go in history as true Yugbandhu Narender Singham Modi.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 21 Aug 2014 15:51

Jhujar wrote:Shias from Gilgit Baltistan have asked GOI to consider them as Indian Nationals

Any link here?

archan · Post by **archan** » 24 Aug 2014 11:47

The irrelevance of Hurriyat: Kashmir’s silent majority cheering PM Modi

Kashmir, like rest of the Indian subcontinent, is neither a monolith entity nor a culturally monotonous society speaking in one voice. For example Radio Kashmir Srinagar (AIR, Srinagar) broadcasts in seven languages and differences among the Muslims on aligning with Pakistan are open. Asgar Ali Karbalai, a veteran leader in the Muslim dominated Kargil, had said recently that they were with Kashmiris but did not support their yearning for Azadi.

The sidelining of Hurriyat Conference is definitely being feted in Jammu and Ladakh and also pockets of Kashmir. "Hurriyat does not in any manner represent us, so why give them so much legitimacy and importance," said Sajjad Bhat, a resident of downtown Srinagar. Bhat, who runs a tailoring shop in the narrow bylanes, says Hurriyat leaders are working only for their self-interest and not for the common people.

The enmities among Hurriyat leaders are well known. For example, Sayed Ali Shah Geelani-supported Hizbul Mujjahideen is accused of killing Moulvi Farooq, father of Moulvi Umer Farooq and also Abdul Ghani Lone, father of Sajjad Lone. Sajjad has since delinked himself from the Hurriyat and had contested the last assembly elections as an independent. However, his brother Bilal Lone is part of the Hurriyat.

Most of the Hurriyat leaders with no known sources of income have lavish lifestyles and have owned mansions and properties overnight. This is disliked by the common people, who feel they are exploiting them in the name of azadi.

Read it all there.

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 24 Aug 2014 18:32

So the terrorism is starting again. Pakistan's financial centers at least in India should be targeted to start with. First and foremost target Bollywood that is encouraging Pakistanis to come over and get paid. Many of the Hindi films are sponsored by Dubai based dons and the money earned is channeled into supporting terrorists who are killing Indians. We are paying to get killed.

4 militants, one jawan killed in encounter in J&K

Rajagopal · Post by **Rajagopal** » 25 Aug 2014 05:57

Just when you think all is dark and gloomy in Kashmir, the below news comes as a cool showers on a parched day. I feel very proud that there are brave-hearts who are working to keep the country united in-spite of being surrounded on all sides by hostile forces. May their tribe increase.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... ashmir/99/

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Aug 2014 06:33

Payback to Pak that UPA missed
Gilgit answer to Hurriyat
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1140825/j ... _qTePldVS1

ew Delhi, Aug. 24: For the new government at the Centre, one of the most challenging decisions in its tenure just shy of three months was the conclusion that bilateral talks with Pakistan had to be called off at a late minute.If Sujatha Singh had stuck to her plans and gone to Islamabad this week, she, along with Pakistan’s foreign secretary, would have finalised a date and approved the modalities for transforming Wagah-Attari from a border of mistrust and intrigue into potentially a bustling bilateral trading point with people-to-people contacts between the two sides, according to multiple sources that were working on the now asphyxiated August 25 meeting.Such possibilities that would have kept alive the expectations raised by Modi in his early weeks as Prime Minister were weighed at a high political level meeting against the tantalising, if risky, prospect that the BJP-led government could set in motion a train of events which may ultimately solve the Kashmir issue on India’s terms.If the BJP’s political machine under president Amit Shah manages to create a fertile ground for ending the special status for Jammu and Kashmir, for the first time since independence, the state’s demography could change.Enterprising Punjabis from neighbouring states, for instance, would buy land and settle in Kashmir which is not possible now. Article 370 prohibits Indian citizens from outside Jammu and Kashmir from buying land or property in the state.This is no BJP fantasy: Modi could replicate in the Valley what the Han Chinese leadership did in Tibet.The restive Chinese province has been demographically so altered through resettlement, it has weakened the push for independence from Beijing. Resettlement by people from elsewhere in India has the potential to make separatism redundant without Article 370.
For now, though, that is putting the cart before the horse. When Atal Bihari Vajpayee assumed government leadership in 1998 with L.K. Advani as home minister, the prospect of “hot pursuit” of cross-border terrorists and Israeli-style attacks on terrorist training camps in Pakistan and in occupied Kashmir were considered.

Eventually, the idea petered out and the same fate could befall Modi’s plans for Jammu and Kashmir. But for now, similar prospects are driving the government’s agenda on Pakistan.For those who have come into government after a gap of a full decade, a treasure trove of material on Kashmir policy and how business was done with Pakistan through decades has become available in recent weeks.At high political levels in the Modi government, such material is being gone through with a fine tooth comb to fashion responses to all eventualities from across the border. Another terrorist attack, for instance, is seriously being anticipated in the full realisation that if reactions on Raisina Hill are no different from those by Manmohan Singh, the halo around Modi would vanish in an instant.In one sweep, the BJP’s unique selling proposition as a bulwark against external terrorism, already dented once when terrorists were exchanged in Kandahar for passengers of a hijacked Indian Airlines plane, would dissipate.Thus, it was discovered almost a fortnight ago — soon after intelligence agencies told Ajit Doval, the national security adviser — that when Hurriyat leaders had been invited to the Pakistan high commission, the UPA government had failed to consider options that were offered to its Prime Minister to neutralise the recurring irritant of such meetings in Chanakyapuri, the capital’s diplomatic enclave.
It has been independently confirmed by this writer that during the tenure of UPA I, a governor of Jammu and Kashmir argued forcefully that meetings between Pakistani envoys and Hurriyat leaders should be countered in Islamabad by the Indian high commissioner inviting Shia leaders from Gilgit-Baltistan, who are victims of ethnic cleansing by the Pakistan Army. Just like Pandits from the Kashmir Valley.But Manmohan Singh did not act on the governor’s advice: a charitable explanation is that things were going well with Gen. Pervez Musharraf and there was a realistic expectation that the army headed by Musharraf would agree to convert the Line of Control into a permanent border as agreed in Shimla after the 1971 war, according to diplomatic folklore.Opinion within the government is that a rising crescendo of demands that Pakistani high commissioner Abdul Basit should be expelled or that Indian envoys should meet rebels from Balochistan are ill-informed nonsense being put out by talk-show pundits.India has no role in Balochistan. On the other hand, Gilgit-Baltistan is Indian territory, occupied by Pakistan with impunity. Besides, Pakistan has been chipping away at the status of Gilgit-Baltistan in violation of international law. This has strengthened the case for meetings between freedom fighters from that area and Indian envoys.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Aug 2014 07:01

Gurus, I have a question on the Harried rats. We all know they spew whatever it is that their TSP GHQ remote-controlled masters allow. What puzzles me is why would TSP not allow them to meet any Indian govt official? After all, either willingly or knowing that they will be shot in their heads in a heart beat should they deviate from the TSP script, why would TSP not allow them to meet anyone in India. Recall, MMS wanted to give them bear hugs, Vohra wanted to meet them, the interlocuter busy bodies wanted to meet them, but TSP refused. Why?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Aug 2014 08:26

Whorii-Litter were the Puppies given birth by Mambata Albright etc . Modi administration have made them PNG in one slap. They are welcome to sit along with Paki as Paki (PaP) nothing else. The dispute between India and Pak is about POK and no harm in discussing Gilgit, Baltistan etc as start before talking about whole POK.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 25 Aug 2014 19:39

Ramana's observations are on the dot

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1140825/j ... _tLlMWSxKs

Valley flashes alert to Modi

SANKARSHAN THAKUR
Srinagar, Aug. 24: A little rattled by the BJP’s “Mission 44+” push in Jammu and Kashmir, Valley leaders have begun signalling Prime Minister Narendra Modi not to attempt any imposition of a “Hindu political order” over the country’s only Muslim-majority state.

Their missives come variously intoned, from advice and plea in the name of “statesmanship” to dire and downright political warning. “The BJP under (Narendra) Modi and Amit Shah has begun indulging in naked sectarianism and is bent upon breaking the fragile socio-political fabric of Jammu and Kashmir,” the Jammu chief of the National Conference (NC), Devinder Rana, told The Telegraph.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 25 Aug 2014 20:28

What's Hindu/Muslim in a secular country. This will get louder still, even while pakis from across the border shell people on border, most of casualties are Muslims. Coincidentally, fragile situation in J&K is unaffected by direct shelling from across the border!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Aug 2014 20:49

Is IA just sitting around doing "proportionate befitting replies" or is there something much more to this sudden rise in border shelling etc? Haven't seen the pigs squealing in phoren media much, so no evidence that IA/IAF/IN have been given a freer hand than in MMS days.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Aug 2014 20:59

What do you have in mind? Cross border raids on pillboxes, mortar and heavy artillery sites? We don't have any options but to match them.

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 25 Aug 2014 22:01

How about attacks on specific facilities/personnel posed as "peace-hating" terrorists who want to "destabilize relations" between "peace-loving neighbors"...
They said it first! Why not use their strategy against them?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Aug 2014 22:56

Vashishtha wrote:How about attacks on specific facilities/personnel posed as "peace-hating" terrorists who want to "destabilize relations" between "peace-loving neighbors"...
They said it first! Why not use their strategy against them?

Are you serious? When dealing with a country like Pakistan pin point attacks on terrorists/PA is only a feel good exercise. In other words, you aren't getting a return on your investment because the jihadi infra will still be intact and the cost advantage will always be on their side. Covert action in the case of Pakistan needs to be seen as one of the pillars of a larger proxy war and not some sort of supreme strategy in itself.

The way to deal with Pakistan which I believe Doval is slowly putting into action is to recognize groups within Pakistan which are marginalized by the state (Shias, Balochis, Kashmiris, etc) and give them teeth. Identity warfare is a far better option because the population you are targeting will always serve as a low cost reservoir of talent which can bleed the state. It also directs the actions of the PA inward rather than on us.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Aug 2014 23:16

my favoured option would be use those smerches & flatten all offending arty fire-bases & ammo dumps using WLRs & other sources of info. sweet power overmatch.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 25 Aug 2014 23:41

There is substantial evidence on the net that the IA responds adequately to anything Pakistan throws at them.

GOI never crows about it.

partha · Post by **partha** » 26 Aug 2014 00:01

UlanBatori wrote:Is IA just sitting around doing "proportionate befitting replies" or is there something much more to this sudden rise in border shelling etc? Haven't seen the pigs squealing in phoren media much, so no evidence that IA/IAF/IN have been given a freer hand than in MMS days.

Most likely GHQ making life difficult for badmash. If it comes down to coup, then "tension on the eastern border" could be one of the reasons to make the case for coup stronger.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Aug 2014 01:15

Rahul M wrote:my favoured option would be use those smerches & flatten all offending arty fire-bases & ammo dumps using WLRs & other sources of info. sweet power overmatch.

Maybe the problem is just that. We don't have a power overmatch and are barely maintaining parity when it comes to artillery of all types. Imagine if we had enough 155mm guns to deploy 300 of them permanently on the LoC like we did during Kargil.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 26 Aug 2014 05:23

Unprovoked paki firing at the LOC is usually done to mask infiltration attempts. That jihadi tunnel was discovered by accident after a patrol chanced upon a cave-in and who knows how many others are actively being used. We need a way to detect and destroy these asap. Winter is coming and the buggers will be trying to push in as many as they can before the snow makes it impossible. The Israelis are using satellites with infra red to detect terrain density changes and found about 60 tunnels on the Gaza border. Wonder if any of our military sats have this capability? Other methods are radar tomography and seismic measuring used in mining to detect underground soil structures.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Aug 2014 05:46

RoyG wrote:What do you have in mind? Cross border raids on pillboxes, mortar and heavy artillery sites? We don't have any options but to match them.

Ah! That was not my pooch.
Let me put it this way: Why are the Pakis suddenly resorting to this? Testing Modi guvrmand/trying to make it look wimpy? Trying to undo SAARC initiative? The other alternative cannot be asked in the open, I being such a gentle yak-herder and all.