India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 06 Mar 2014 11:22

Cross posted:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1604406

Pits per year production.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/R43406.pdf
U.S. Nuclear Weapon “Pit” Production Options for Congress
By Jonathan E. Medalia
dated 21-02-2014

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Mar 2014 06:25

Look who's coming to dinner ...and the fare is Schezwan!
Why then are we like "running dogs",after obsolete Yanqui PWRs?
We were supposed to be the leaders in thorium N-tech,do we have to learn the lesson late from Beijing?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... um[b]China working on uranium-free nuclear plants in attempt to combat smog[/b]
Beijing brings forward deadline for world's first thorium-fuelled facility in attempt to break reliance on fossil fuels

Jennifer Duggan
theguardian.com, Wednesday 19 March 2014 19.42 GMT

Qinshan nuclear power plant
The Qinshan plant, outside Shanghai, is China's first nuclear power facility. Photograph: Eugene Hoshiko/AP

China is developing a new design of nuclear power plant in an attempt to reduce its reliance on coal and to cut air pollution.

In an effort to reduce the number of coal-fired plants, the Chinese government has brought forward by 15 years the deadline to develop a nuclear power plant using the radioactive element thorium instead of uranium.

A team of researchers in Shanghai has now been told it has 10 instead of 25 years to develop the world's first such plant.

"In the past, the government was interested in nuclear power because of the energy shortage. Now, they are more interested because of smog," Professor Li Zhong, a scientist working on the project, told the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post.

An advanced research centre was set up in January by the Chinese Academy of Sciences with the aim of developing an industrial reactor using thorium molten salt technology, the newspaper reported.

According to the World Nuclear Association (WNA), China has 20 nuclear plants in operation and another 28 under construction, all uranium-fuelled reactors. China has been importing large quantities of uranium as it attempts to reduce its reliance on fossil fuels. However, according to the WNA, thorium is much more abundant.

The researchers on the project said they had come under considerable pressure from the government for it to be successful. Li said nuclear power was the "only solution" to replace coal, and thorium "carries much hope".

"The problem of coal has become clear," he said: "if the average energy consumption per person doubles, this country will be choked to death by polluted air."

"China has an ambitious nuclear-generation programme. It plans to have almost 60 gigawatts of nuclear energy by 2020 and up to 150gw by 2030, so the Chinese have plans to get a significant amount of nuclear into the energy mix," said Jonathan Cobb of the WNA.

There is a lot that is still unknown about thorium but a lot of research is being carried out worldwide. Cobb said: "Other countries around the world are looking at thorium. There is a fair bit of research going on at the moment into the use of thorium. And technology-wise, using thorium would not be too much of a leap. It is certainly something that is well under way in terms of research," said Cobb.

The researchers on the project told the South China Morning Post their work would be likely to face some opposition from Chinese citizens after the nuclear disaster at Fukushima, in Japan.

However, the national nuclear safety administration said the safety of China's nuclear power plants could be assured, and checks had been stepped up since Fukushima to avoid a similar accident.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Apr 2014 20:10

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... 901831.ece

After years of deadlock on liability, India and Russia have signed an agreement for building units 3 and 4 of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant project (KKNPP) at a cost of Rs. 33,000 crore.

disha · Post by **disha** » 12 Apr 2014 21:23

^ Just 10 years back, that cost would have been 16,000 crore.

And currently Hyd'bad - the largest metropolitan city in AP gets regular 6 hour power cuts. It will be 8 hour power cuts soon. And then people will bring out their diesel gensets to get the work done. Lot of noise pollution and air pollution and India's forex going up in smoke!!!

I think even if Rs. 66,000 crore is spent in KKNPP to give assured power supply down to the villages., it is okay. The unaccounted costs in terms of life quality is never acknowledged when people do not have regular electricity.

disha · Post by **disha** » 12 Apr 2014 21:53

A canard has been spread that Thorium based nuclear reactors are difficult and hence "dangerous" and since US is not pursuing Thorium technology because it is "difficult", there is no point in pursuing it.

The reason US shutdown Thorium research in 1970's is not difficulty in technology., it is because you cannot make any Nuclear Bombs with Thorium. So when Cold War is at its peak, why spend money and time behind Thorium when the US needs bigger and more bombs?

The latest in Thorium is liquid fluoride technology. It is remarkable in its simplicity. Here read it all in

http://www.economist.com/news/science-a ... contribute

disha · Post by **disha** » 12 Apr 2014 22:06

And read up this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... orium.html

This is what caught my eye:

There is no certain bet in nuclear physics but work by Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia at CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research) on the use of thorium as a cheap, clean and safe alternative to uranium in reactors may be the magic bullet we have all been hoping for, though we have barely begun to crack the potential of solar power.
Dr Rubbia says a tonne of the silvery metal – named after the Norse god of thunder, who also gave us Thor’s day or Thursday - produces as much energy as 200 tonnes of uranium, or 3,500,000 tonnes of coal. A mere fistful would light London for a week.

Of course some in S.TN will go and argue with Dr. Rubia., but the point is even if Nobel laureate Dr. Rubbia is off by 50%., burning 1,750,000 tonnes of coal will produce 3000k tonnes of CO2 and 100k tonnes of Sulphuric acid. (all thumb rule calculations onlee)

Think about it, by burning coal we are spewing several thousand tonnes of sulphuric acid into our very own environment.

Prefer nuclear energy over coal or any other energy.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 13 Apr 2014 00:22

^^^ Thanks for posting the article.

Meanwhile... (Hello Amitji..

taza khabar from Japan.. (Some excerpts..)

Japan approves energy plan reinstating nuclear power

(Reuters) - Japan's cabinet on Friday approved an energy policy reversing the previous government's plans to gradually mothball nuclear power plants, a move likely to be unpopular with a wary public following the 2011 Fukushima disaster.

But the plan may be too little too late for Japan's moribund atomic industry, which is floundering under the weight of estimated losses of almost $50 billion, forcing two utilities to ask the government for capital last week.

Plant operators have had to pay out almost $90 billion on replacement fossil fuels, with domestic media saying they have also spent an estimated 1.6 trillion yen ($16 billion) on nuclear plant upgrades to meet new safety guidelines.

The plan defines nuclear as an "important baseload power source" meaning it can feed constant power to the grid to meet minimum requirement. But the policy document did not specify the share of nuclear in the nation's energy mix.

....

"We will also contribute to national energy policy by utilizing nuclear power, based on the fundamental premise of ensuring safety," Yagi said in a statement.

Shares in Australian uranium producer Paladin Energy rose nearly 5 percent after the news that Tokyo had reinstated nuclear energy as part of national policy.

....
The decision to reinstate nuclear power is likely to be unpopular and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe had to spend months convincing skeptical members of his ruling Liberal Democratic Party as well as coalition partner New Komeito, which opposes atomic energy, to accept the final draft of the plan.

To some, the draft of the plan which came out in February by METI.. may be interesting specially considering the change of public opinion in Japan after Fukushima.. some tidbits...

This is the fourth of Japan's Basic Energy plan.. took about 3 years and it is the first to be approved after Fukushima (last one was approved in, I think, 2010)

This plan like all its predecessors, talks about energy security for the country (which is poor in fossil fuel resources.. it has 30% from nuclear pre-Fukushima) .. The policy commits to "clean energy" .etc and has some interesting statistics about Coal/LNG imports ($80 billion nearly 10% of total imports) since nuclear plants have been off.

It sets, nuclear energy in the mix as an "important component of Japan's energy mix"and looks to the "restart" of countries nuclear reactors..(while emphasizing the safety)

Nuclear power "is a quasi-domestic source that gives stable power, operates inexpensively and has a low greenhouse gas profile".... Nuclear power is an 'important power source that supports the stability of the energy supply and demand structure"

BTW up to now restart applications have been lodged for 17 of Japan's reactors. The first reactors could restart later this year after completion of the NRA's review process.

Construction of Ohma 1 - (which suspended following the Fukushima accident may be the first Japanese nuclear construction project to restart...

Also, mean while total deaths, or ANY measurable cancer illness or ANY definite sickness due to radiation of Fukushima in Japan is ZERO... something to think about..

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 13 Apr 2014 01:16

disha wrote:A canard has been spread that Thorium based nuclear reactors are difficult and hence "dangerous" and since US is not pursuing Thorium technology because it is "difficult", there is no point in pursuing it.

BTW, another important use of Thorium based reactors (or any other reactors for that matter) is not power but isotope producing part which is useful in medical (and other) fields.

In this respect, news from France, is important.

Areva has announced the selection of Caen in northwest France as the location for its planned industrial-scale lead-212 (Pb-212) production facility. Clinical trials for using the radioisotope for cancer treatment are underway....It is to produce ( in industrial scale - large amounts with high purity) of Pb-212 which comes from thorium-232.

Pb-212 is a promising agent for use in the field of targeted alpha therapy (TAT). The technique would involve Pb-212 being attached to an antibody destined to bind to a unique antigen expressed by cancer cells. This method reduces radiation dose to normal tissues by delivering lethal doses of radiation directly to cancer cells.

(Phase I clinical trials using Pb-212 to confirm the safety of treatment in patients began at the University of Alabama in the USA in July 2011 according to Areva which said that "several new scientific partnerships are currently being studied with a dozen institutions."

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 13 Apr 2014 02:03

I will (again) urge all responsible citizens here to keep themselves educated and not fall for silly propaganda, the type which newspapers (even the so called respectable ones) are not careful enough to refute. (Please do read what is written here fully, specially the part after "****" which is an UN report)

In BRF forums too, we see people talking about "Fukushima radiation this or that"..

Just google gives us recent (after many years after Fukushima headlines.. typically screaming...

Citizen scientists prepare to test West Coast for Fukushima radiation ...

... US service members claim they were misled about Fukushima ...

Now, in a class action lawsuit, they allege they were misled about radiation risks, RT's Ameera David reports. Dozens of US sailors and ...

As Fears Of Fukushima's Radiation Linger, Children Flee Homes

US sailors sue for $1B over Fukushima radiation

Scientists expect traces of Fukushima radiation on West Coast soon

Fukushima radiation near Half Moon Bay? State health officials offer ...

Citizen scientists prepare to test West Coast for Fukushima radiation

And so on and so on...

Even a serious news item, which debunks this in no uncertain term is twisted to propagate a lie, depicts scientists as dishonest to hide the risk of radiation. (Note the use of "unlikely" in the headline)

Fukushima radiation 'unlikely' to increase cancer rates – UN report

So what this report actually say?
First, the report, sanctioned by UN, is most thorough. I posted the preliminary report part here about a year ago, now we have the final report. It says (among other things)

the latest report on the accident comes from the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) - the independent international body set up in the 1950s to give impartial advice on the effects of radiation on people and the environment. In January 2012 UNSCEAR was asked by the UN General Assembly to undertake a "full assessment of the levels of exposure and radiation risks" attributable to Fukushima accident.

****
It concludes that the health impacts of the Fukushima accident that any radiation-induced effects would be too small to identify. People were well protected and received "low or very low" radiation doses.

The study concluded that the rates of cancer or hereditary diseases were unlikely to show any discernible rise in affected areas because the radiation doses people received were too low.

People were promptly evacuated from the vicinity of the nuclear power plant, and later from a neighbouring area where radionuclides had accumulated. This action reduced their radiation exposure by a factor of ten, said UNSCEAR, to levels that were "low or very low."

Overall, people in Fukushima are expected on average to receive less than 10 mSv due to the accident over their whole lifetime, said UNSCEAR, comparing this to the 170 mSv lifetime dose from natural background radiation that people in Japan typically receive.
(I hope you all remember, 1 mSV is about 10,000 Bed (Banana Eq. Dose) (introduced in BRF by yours truly ..1 Bed is about what you get by K40 radiation when you eat a banana)

Health issues from radiation only become apparent in people known to have received 100 mSv or more in a short space of time. (In this way this report is nothing new if one read this fact and 100mSV figure repeated many times by me in Brf) This criteria does apply to a group of 160 plant workers, who are to be monitored in the long term.

Despite the evacuation's success in minimizing radiation exposure to a level where, "No discernible increased incidence of radiation-related health effects are expected among exposed members of the public or their descendants," the mass movement of people had repercussions of its own, including the deaths of some vulnerable people and social effects of the relocation.

UNSCEAR said, "The most important health effect is on mental and social well-being, related to the enormous impact of the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear accident, and the fear and stigma related to the perceived risk of exposure to radiation."

Agneta Rising, head of the World Nuclear Association, said the UNSCEAR report was the "most detailed yet... and should greatly reassure those thinking of returning to evacuated areas." She continued: "Experience has taught us that some measures to prevent radiation dose can be more damaging than the doses avoided. They also exacerbate fears that lead to social and economic suffering. We need practical measures for protecting people that also help them get on with their lives when the emergency is over."

UNSCEAR's conclusions agree with those of its preliminary report from late 2012. The extra time was used in compiling the most detailed possible models to describe people's individual radiation doses based on their age, their movements and the distribution of radionuclides. Another study from the World Health Organisation in early 2013 was based on broad theoretical risk calculations. Overall, WHO's conclusions were the same as UNSCEAR's - that any health effects from radiation were expected to be too small to identify.
Thyroid screening

Children are more vulnerable than adults to the effects of radiation and after a nuclear accident, the principal risk is for the youngest children to absorb iodine-131 which would accumulate in the thyroid gland, increasing the chance of thyroid cancer. This rare disease is treatable with a high success rate, but to guard against potential extra cases the thyroid glands of some 360,000 young people up to the age of 18 are being surveyed by ultrasound.

UNSCEAR said, "Increased rates of detection of nodules, cysts and cancers have been observed during the first round of screening; however, these are to be expected in view of the high detection efficiency. Data from similar screening protocols in areas not affected by the accident imply that the apparent increased rate of detection among children in Fukushima prefecture are unrelated to radiation exposure."

Effects on wildlife and nearby ecosystems were similar in magnitude to the predicted human health impact. UNSCEAR said it expected no effects beyond the areas where highly radioactive water was released - i.e. the immediate environs of the plant itself. Even there the effects would be "transient" it said. In the wider area of the Pacific Ocean, "the potential for effects on biota is insignificant."... (Yes, all that silly nonsense about "Fukushima Fish" is indeed just that .. silly nonsense..)

There you have it. The report is just released.. One can read the whole report at: (published last week)

http://www.unscear.org/docs/reports/201 ... nnex_A.pdf

So how much harm radiation did in Fukushima ...

ZERO (or nothing could be measured..)!!! Now what can't a typical Indian newspaper give wide publicity to this important story?

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 13 Apr 2014 08:21

About lead-212 radioactive isotope, it would be rather retrograde isn't it I.e. to use up Thorium which is much safer nuclear fuel - to generate a radioactive isotope.

link-lead isotopes from wiki.

Work done by lead radioactive isotope can be done be any other radioactive isotope.

It is best and safest to not sell Thorium as mere fuel for arbitrary requirements when it can be used as a fuel within India for industrial output.

Industrial output in any case would be much more profitable over selling raw fuel.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 13 Apr 2014 20:35

vishvak wrote:About lead-212 radioactive isotope, it would be rather retrograde isn't it I.e. to use up Thorium which is much safer nuclear fuel - to generate a radioactive isotope.

Vishvak - In my humble opinion, and to put it mildly, it is silly to think that use of thorium for radioactive isotopes, will deny or effect in ANY significant way its use for power. I once saw, use of wheat grains to teach a kid how to count (or do simple addition) - (very much like "two apples + three apples = 5 apples etc.) Sure wheat should be used for food, but its use as a teaching tool is not going to make much difference.

First point is - radioactive isotopes are generally byproducts in power reactors and thus really do not use any additional fuel. Even research reactors which do not provide usable power, provide much needed research data on reactor design. In any case the amount of fuel it will use is really negligible compared to Th supply or amount it will be used to produce power.

****

Another point - The criteria of choosing isotopes (or any medicine for that matter) is to get the best material to treat cancer. Period. (I mean, when we manufacture aspirin - we don't argue that Salix alba (whose bark is used to manufacture Salicylic acid) could be better used as a fuel in a chulha.

.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Apr 2014 23:24

Important news from MIT to be watched in Indian context...

New power plant design could provide enhanced safety, easier siting, and centralized construction.

Floating nuclear plants could ride out tsunamis

When an earthquake and tsunami struck the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant complex in 2011, neither the quake nor the inundation caused the ensuing contamination. Rather, it was the aftereffects — specifically, the lack of cooling for the reactor cores, due to a shutdown of all power at the station — that caused most of the harm.

A new design for nuclear plants built on floating platforms, modeled after those used for offshore oil drilling, could help avoid such consequences in the future. Such floating plants would be designed to be automatically cooled by the surrounding seawater in a worst-case scenario, which would indefinitely prevent any melting of fuel rods, or escape of radioactive material.

The concept is being presented this week at the Small Modular Reactors Symposium, hosted by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers, by MIT professors Jacopo Buongiorno, Michael Golay, and Neil Todreas, along with others from MIT, the University of Wisconsin, and Chicago Bridge and Iron, a major nuclear plant and offshore platform construction company.

Such plants, Buongiorno explains, could be built in a shipyard, then towed to their destinations five to seven miles offshore, where they would be moored to the seafloor and connected to land by an underwater electric transmission line. The concept takes advantage of two mature technologies: light-water nuclear reactors and offshore oil and gas drilling platforms. Using established designs minimizes technological risks, says Buongiorno, an associate professor of nuclear science and engineering (NSE) at MIT.

Although the concept of a floating nuclear plant is not unique — Russia is in the process of building one now, on a barge moored at the shore — none have been located far enough offshore to be able to ride out a tsunami, Buongiorno says. For this new design, he says, “the biggest selling point is the enhanced safety.”
<snip>

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Apr 2014 02:24

For a population dense nation like India, above would be a big plus.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 18 Apr 2014 22:32

I am not a biologist or chemical engineer ... but this news caught my eye..

I knew that microorganisms, including algae, are used widely by industry to help manage waste by-products. For example, सरकंडा ( bulrush in English) is known for cleaning up chemical waste) -- and algee, which uses photosynthesis and metabolic processes to take-up the contaminants.

Now an important news is about a micro-algee - called Coccomyxa actinabiotis - which was discovered in a used fuel cell storage pool at a nuclear facility and is capable of withstanding extreme radiation doses of up to 20 kiloGrays.... (For perspective, if this was gamma rays .. this will be about 20,000,000 mSV - In Fukushime, people got evacuated when radiation dose reached 10mSV .. this is about 2 million times that dose)

(Also for perspective, this is about 10,000 times the radiation a typical cancer patient gets (converted to whole body equivalent) going for radiation treatment, and is about 5000 the ld50 dose for human - about 50% probability that a human exposed to that radiation will die - if untreated)

Exciting news is that this can be used to treat radio-active water.. (This is/or is likely to make news in many mainstream news media

For details see
http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlel ... ivAbstract
Abstract:

An extremely radioresistant green eukaryote for radionuclide bio-decontamination in the nuclear industry

Nuclear activities generate radioactive elements which require processes for their decontamination. Although biological remediation has proved to be efficient in industrial applications, no biotechnology solution is currently operational for highly radioactive media. Such a solution requires organisms that accumulate radionuclides while withstanding radioactivity. This paper describes the potentialities of an extremophile autotrophic eukaryote, Coccomyxa actinabiotis nov. sp., that we isolated from a nuclear facility and which withstands huge ionizing radiation doses, up to 20 000 Gy. Half the population survives 10 000 Gy, which is comparable to the hyper-radioresistant well-known prokaryote Deinococcus radiodurans. The cell metabolic profile investigated by nuclear magnetic resonance was hardly affected by radiation doses of up to 10 000 Gy. Cellular functioning completely recovered within a few days. This outstanding microalga also strongly accumulates radionuclides, including 238U, 137Cs, 110mAg, 60Co, 54Mn, 65Zn, and 14C (decontamination above 85% in 24 h, concentration factor, 1000–450 000 mL g−1 fresh weight). In 1 h, the microalga revealed as effective as the conventional physico-chemical ion-exchangers to purify nuclear effluents. Using this organism, an efficient real-scale radionuclide bio-decontamination process was performed in a nuclear fuel storage pool with an important reduction of waste volume compared to the usual physico-chemical process. The feasibility of new decontamination solutions for the nuclear industry and for environmental clean-up operations is demonstrated.

Added later: This reminds me of frogs found in reactor pool in North Korea.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Apr 2014 23:12

AmberG If you know one doubt - what happens after the microalgae accumulates the radioactive material? Doesn't it become radioactive too? So it boils down to disposing these radio-active organism and reproduce under controlled conditions which, I presume, is an easier task. All said and done, wouldn't the half lifes of the accumulated radio active material remain the same? Yes, the radioactive contaminants would not spread far and wide through getting in to sea/ocean currents, but still not a complete cure for the radioactive waste.

On another note, why is the idea of sending the waste into the sun is not being pursued? Cost of space launches? Fear of a crash which makes this solution worse than the original problem?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Apr 2014 01:07

Matrimc -
As you have said, the main part here is to separate (or remove ) the radioactive material. Storing it is, in-spite of large scale misinformation propagated by the media is not really a problem. (I urge you to look up any reputable source to separate myth from reality). The main trouble, if radiation level is high, people can not work to do the cleanup. For example, fire-fighters took big personal risk to contain Chernobyl. (If one could manage a person or a robot to reach the reactor and seal it right away - say pour concrete over- cleanup would be much easier .. as it was, most of the death were among those fire-figters)

So here, the algee absorbs chemicals like Cs, and remove it from water, after which Cs can be removed. This may be more efficient than present chemical or filtering methods.

... BTW speaking of sending this stuff to the Sun, some time ago NASA's $280-million Orbiting Carbon Observatory crashed into the ocean near Antarctica...Disappointing when a satellite ends up underwater, but imagine the hulla-gulla one would have gotten if did what you are suggesting...

In any case, even the cheapest cost for payload LEO (Low earth orbit) is about $5000 /Kg (sources give range from about $5000 to $15000 per Kg as going rate)....

For GTO - the rates..
Atlas V 401: =$28000 US /kgGTO
Delta IV Heavy: =$25,000 US /kgGTO
Ariane 5 ECA: =$24,000 US$/kgGTO

Cheapest seem to be:

Proton-M: = $17,000 $/kgGTO

For GEO, the rates seem to be about $50,000 /Kg

(I have not seen their rates for escape velocity (or sending it to sun which will cost MUCH more)
(Also note that, we need about 11Km/Sec to escape from earth (and become a orbit of sun).. and need about 41 Km/sec delta-V to captured by Sun..

So to send it to Sun the cost is about $16,000,000 per Kg (assuming the same cost structure)

If my calculations are correct, one would need about 50,000 tons of fuel per ton of nuclear waste..
(assuming current efficiency of rocket fuel)
if dumping on sun is the desired way..

(PS I may be off by little but order of magnitude is correct -- you need about a billion dollar for each ton disposed off on Sun)

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Apr 2014 01:16

matrimc wrote:AmberG If you know one doubt - what happens after the microalgae accumulates the radioactive material? Doesn't it become radioactive too? So it boils down to disposing these radio-active organism and reproduce under controlled conditions which, I presume, is an easier task. All said and done, wouldn't the half lifes of the accumulated radio active material remain the same? Yes, the radioactive contaminants would not spread far and wide through getting in to sea/ocean currents, but still not a complete cure for the radioactive waste.

On another note, why is the idea of sending the waste into the sun is not being pursued? Cost of space launches? Fear of a crash which makes this solution worse than the original problem?

http://www.ted.com/talks/angela_belcher ... _batteries

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Apr 2014 08:07

matrimc wrote:AmberG If you know one doubt - what happens after the microalgae accumulates the radioactive material? Doesn't it become radioactive too? So it boils down to disposing these radio-active organism and reproduce under controlled conditions which, I presume, is an easier task. All said and done, wouldn't the half lifes of the accumulated radio active material remain the same? Yes, the radioactive contaminants would not spread far and wide through getting in to sea/ocean currents, but still not a complete cure for the radioactive waste.

On another note, why is the idea of sending the waste into the sun is not being pursued? Cost of space launches? Fear of a crash which makes this solution worse than the original problem?

Enclosing them into a glass aggregate and putting them into cement/concrete containers, insides of which are lined with lead and dropping them into a deep ocean water trench is cheaper and safer.

The above soln. is best after the thorium stage is powered up since the radio-nucleotides have half life in several hundered years instead of several thousand.

Further the base load capacity of the salty ocean water is immense and the subduction zones will return the material back into the Earth's mantle.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Apr 2014 11:24

Amber G. wrote:
(PS I may be off by little but order of magnitude is correct -- you need about a billion dollar for each ton disposed off on Sun)

Sire even if you are off by two orders of magnitude, heck even three, I am convinced.

Disha and ramay thanks.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 20 Apr 2014 13:10

X-post from Indo-US Strategic News and Discussion
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1631909

Some points
* operate through NGOs - Hillary Clinton, United States Secretary of State and a Senator
* NGOs are given funding through indirect channels, and which target

individuals and countries seen as less than respectful to her views on foreign and domestic policy in the target countries
* organisations based in the Netherlands, Denmark and the Scandinavian countries, especially Norway- as these were outside the radar of big power politics. {c0nd0m countries? like PAKIs

}
* These NGOs were active in the agitation against the Russian nuclear power plant at Kudankulam in Tamil Nadu, with "funding coming mainly from a religious organisation based in Europe that has close links with France"
* Incidentally, French companies are in direct competition

with Russian rivals in seeking to expand the market for nuclear reactors in India. {some competing style by civilized Europeans and Americans}
* The senior official, now on a visit to India, claimed that "your (i.e. the Manmohan Singh) government has full details of the religious organisation involved in funding the Kudankulam protests, but is keeping this secret as the organisation has high-level backers" in the UPA.

Rest of the post is about un-excited expert grave diggers from USA searching for mass graves under NGO cover, that was discontinues later after finding nothing but bones of a buffalo somewhere and - after "much excitement" - turned out to be bones of a buffalo {buffalo mass graves in Gujarat? - certified by expert grave differs in USA}; or how several expert grave diggers are in Punjab since 2011 etc.

Another point is how, post the grave digging operations
* "much to the dismay"

of those NGOs who were getting significant funding as a consequence of the search operations {-what is the connection here? In any case, USA should stop this funding which would also avoid subsequent dismay of sorts}.

Yet another point:
* because of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's inability to water down the Nuclear Liability Act and Defence Minister A.K. Antony's decision to prefer the French Rafale fighter to its US rival, "orders were given to activate the Khalistan file so as to create embarrassment for Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh".

Coincidentally, as the Americans say, the NGOs would not protest against France/USA nuclear reactors OR in favor of Nuclear Liability Act! But the governments at the state and national level should avoid these factors, not to mentions meddling in Punjab that comes as a baggage while doing business with such countries.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 07 May 2014 07:33

Govt to form Nuclear Insurance Pool to address liability issue.

Moving to address the liability issue that has held up deals with various countries, the government has decided to form a Nuclear Insurance Pool which will have a number of stakeholders to meet the requirement of huge financial cover in case of a mishap.

The Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) is pursuing the matter with the Ministry of Finance for creation of the pool after no single insurance company, including the General Insurance Company, expressed its ability to provide financial cover to the nuclear plants considering the huge monetary requirement.

Under the Liability Law, compensation of upto Rs 1500 crore will have to be paid in case of a mishap involving a nuclear plant.

At present, India has 20 nuclear plants and their number is expected to grow as the industry expands.

The move indicates the urgency to insure reactors, especially units 3 and 4 of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant (KKNPP), under the Civil Liability Nuclear Damage Act (CLND), 2010. An agreement with Russia for setting up units 3 and 4 was signed only a week back.

This will also pave way for insuring big-ticket projects like Jaitapur Nuclear Power Project (JNPP) where French firm Areva is constructing 6 EPR reactors of 1650 MW each as also future atomic energy programmes.

In a letter written last week to the Ministry of Finance, DAE has said the formation of Nuclear Insurance Pool should be "expedited" on "priority basis" as suggested by GIC.The volume of the pool will depend on how the government contributes to it for every project.

Interestingly, in Canada, the nuclear liability law caps liability to an extent after which the government takes the responsibility of the remaining liability.

DAE and the Nuclear Power Corporation of India (NPCIL) had approached GIC for insurance. However, the public sector undertaking has said it does not have the capacity to insure the reactors in view of the high cost and also the number of reactors involved.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 20 May 2014 07:07

Homegrown promise of cheaper and safer N-power.

The Steady State Superconducting Tokamak-1 (SST-1) fusion reactor that recently became operational at the Institute of Plasma Research in Bhat, Gandhinagar, has led to creation of technological innovations. A two-phase cooling system for maintaining very low temperatures; and unusually small magnetic coil joints have already been tested and found working. Another innovation on which IPR scientists are still working is replacement of the coils of SST-1 with superconducting magnesium diboride wires.

Scientists at IPR say that these technological innovations developed for SST-1 will not only bring down the cost of fusion reactors in the future but also make them safer and more efficient.

At the heart of SST-1 is the hot plasma created with the help of an Electron Cyclotron-assisted electrical discharge. A large amount of current is then passed to keep it hot and well-confined inside a strong magnetic cage. This heating raises the temperature of the plasma by millions of degrees. The plasma is confined by superconducting magnets so that it can exist in that state for a long time.

The technologies developed by IPR include a two-phase cooling of cables which is critical to confining the plasma within a strong magnetic field. This involves using liquid as well as vapors of helium.

The two-phase cooling saves on the costly helium.

At the low temperature created by two-phase cooling, electric current flows through the coils almost without facing any resistance. Also, the outer casing of the SST-1 reactor will be kept cold using liquid nitrogen. The second innovation which is being developed at IPR is the replacement of coils with superconducting magnesium diboride wires. This will increase the efficiency of the SST-1 reactor and help run it at slightly a higher temperature-from 4 degree Kelvin to 20 degree Kelvin (-253 degree Celsius). The third innovation -the joints of the magnetic coils of the order of nano-ohms- are small enough to offer least resistance to current flow.

Inside SST-1, microwaves, electric current of the order of 52,000 amperes and fast moving neutral particle beams from injectors will heat a stream of hydrogen plasma. In a fusion-based reactor, the hot plasma will create a conducive environment for fusion to occur. Hydrogen isotopes (deuterium and tritium) fuse to liberate energy in the form of fast neutrons. The heat generated by stopping the neutrons is then tapped for running electricity-generating turbines.

"We have already tested these innovations - the two-phase cooling and the joints in the cables of the order of nano-ohms - in the SST-1 Tokamak. They work fine. The use of magnesium diboride wires for superconducting magnets will really help us operate the Tokamak more efficiently and even bring down the cost of operations. This is being developed in our lab right now," said IPR director, D Bora.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 20 May 2014 09:06

Vipul wrote:Homegrown promise of cheaper and safer N-power.

The Steady State Superconducting Tokamak-1 (SST-1) fusion reactor that recently became operational at the Institute of Plasma Research in Bhat, Gandhinagar, has led to creation of technological innovations.

IMO it is very sloppy reporting ..even if everything goes as planned the fusion reactor is not going to become "operational" till 2027 ..(or later..).. At present we don't even know if this design will even succeed to become cost effective..

What they have done, from reports is that carried out the steady state superconducting fusion experiment with the Tokamak ... ( A Tokamak is a device that uses a magnetic field to confine plasma. The club of superconducting Tokamaks comprises South Korea, China, Japan, France, Russia and now India)..They have been able to confine plasma for.. a fraction of second ...! (It is not even a hot news because they have seen it virtually hundreds of the times in last year .. each lasting a fraction of a second ..they did not want to talk about it (they want to improve, before telling media/word) ..

Sure this is a VERY important news and India is doing great in this field.. it is just that we are still a long way before Fusion Reactor becomes operational..

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 04 Jun 2014 04:45

Arihant propels India to elite club, but with a headache

Modi briefed on nuclear command structure

vina · Post by **vina** » 07 Jun 2014 20:39

Kudankulam unit 1 generates. 1000 mwe of power.

arun · Post by **arun** » 08 Jun 2014 09:50

NPCIL Press Release:

Press Release - Kudankulam Unit-1 attains full power

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 08 Jun 2014 16:39

Jay ho!

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 09 Jun 2014 11:28

Congratulations to all involved!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jun 2014 22:08

MatrimC, There is a 2008 book called "Physics for Future Presidents" written by Richard Muller. It gives big picture view of these things.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 10 Jun 2014 00:24

^^^ I have recommended the Mueller's book (PFFP), countless times over the years here in BRF.

This was the textbook used for the MOST popular physics course, given over years in Berkeley.
(There are online course type videos and other resource material available online from Berkeley.
see link below
http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/Physics10/PffP.html

The old book (2007) has new edition:
(An Introduction to the Essential Physics Every World Leader Needs to Know)

Physics and Technology for Future Presidents

Again as I said, I have quoted from this various times, and recommended it very highly. I think every leader should read it. (People like Obama have liked it very much)

(I met Mueller a few years ago, he encouraged me (and others) to teach this course at our local place...Harvard, Purdue, Rice, University of Chicago and many other places have or are teaching this course using this text book)

The book talks about virtually all the essential topics, and although the author is a renowned physicist, the book does not require advance mathematics to follow it

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jun 2014 01:06

Yes I read it over the weekend in a couple of hours as I was familar with most of the subject.
I agree wholehartedly its book one should read.
Thanks for the recommendation earlier.
ramana

PS Clears up a lot of confusion about solar energy, hydrogen fuel and all that in addition to nuke power

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 11 Jun 2014 07:58

Russia agrees on India's nuclear liability law.

Russia has in principle agreed on the Indian nuclear liability law, paving the way for signing a contract for unit 3 and 4 of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant in July, Russian officials said today."The (liability) law enacted is certainly challenging. We are working with our colleagues (counterparts) in India and the issue has been resolved," said Kirill Komarov, Deputy Director General on Development and International business, Rosatom State Corporation.

India and Russia signed a General Framework Agreement on unit 3 and 4 in April this year after crossing the initial hurdles of the Civil Liability Nuclear Damage Act 2010.The agreement could not be signed in October last year when the then Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh visited Russia, as Moscow has raised objection over some clauses of the Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage (CLND) Act.

Yesterday, S Kirienko, Director General of Rosatom had said that Russia was waiting for a nod from India to go ahead before implementing the General Framework agreement.

"We have just signed the protocol. The approvals will take some time. We have are awaiting nod from the Indian side. The India's over view authority (Atomic energy Regulatory Board) is yet to give its nod."They are also checking seismic activity in the area. So by July we should be ready with a roadmap after which we can start implementing the General Framework Agreement signed between the two countries," said told a press conference.

Unit 1 of the KKNPP has attained 100 per cent capacity of 1000 MW while the second unit should start generating power from this year.Units 1 and 2 of Tamil Nadu-based Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant (KKNPP) have been built with the help of Russian assistance at the cost of Rs 17,200 crore.

Insuring nuclear power plants is a daunting task because of its high cost and there is no single governmental insurance entity in the country that can insure these installations whose insurance ran in crores. It is to be noted that the Department of Atomic Energy has asked the Ministry of Finance to form a Nuclear Insurance Pool after the General Insurance Company was unable to insure Nuclear Power Plants.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Jun 2014 17:43

Will this force US and France to also agree with our new nuclear liability law ?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Jun 2014 22:12

arun wrote:NPCIL Press Release:

Press Release - Kudankulam Unit-1 attains full power

Yes, "Jai Ho" and congratulations are definitely are in order..This is the largest of India's (21 operating power reactors)...

.but that also makes me think a few items worth pondering..

*** This VVER-1000 pressurized water reactor was completed in March 2011, The delay was due to various protests and legal actions. (Even BRF, quite a few people spread non-scientific tamasha - specially following the accident at Fukushima)
(Think how much harm we did to our nation by not providing power/delaying it for 3 YEARS .. which was completely unnecessary)

*** The first criticality was last July and was connected to the grid in October. .. (Again we delayed it for almost one year)

(Output has been increased in stages, with regulatory approval required for each increase in power.
With the plant operating at 75% capacity, NPCIL was given permission by AERB on 1 May to increase output to 90% and then 100% for a limited duration. Reactor reached full power at 1.20pm on 7 June.)

** Still lot of tests .. results to be sent to AERB for review and clearance for continued operation at 100%.

** This is scheduled to begin commercial operation next month.

*** Meanwhile, the second unit (another 1GW) start time is now (from what I can see) is March 2015.
(Wait is only due to non-technical issues)

Looking back the agreement was signed in 1988..
construction started in March 2002 (unit 2 a few months later)...
They were scheduled to start in December 2007 (and December 2008 for unit 2)

Something to think about and learn from...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jun 2014 22:17

Just for ref what was the schedule for a typical US power reactor in the late 70s?

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 11 Jun 2014 22:18

Amber G. wrote:Yes, "Jai Ho" and congratulations are definitely are in order..This is the largest of India's (21 operating power reactors)...

Wonderful news indeed. Hope the commissioning of future nuclear installations proceeds in a hassle-free manner.

BTW, will you be at the ANS Annual Meeting next week ?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Jun 2014 22:55

Jaitapur talks will be resuming one again. I think it will be cleared after the rafale deal.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 12 Jun 2014 03:28

Vipul wrote:Govt to form Nuclear Insurance Pool to address liability issue.

Moving to address the liability issue that has held up deals with various countries, the government has decided to form a Nuclear Insurance Pool which will have a number of stakeholders to meet the requirement of huge financial cover in case of a mishap.

The Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) is pursuing the matter with the Ministry of Finance for creation of the pool after no single insurance company, including the General Insurance Company, expressed its ability to provide financial cover to the nuclear plants considering the huge monetary requirement.

Under the Liability Law, compensation of upto Rs 1500 crore will have to be paid in case of a mishap involving a nuclear plant.

At present, India has 20 nuclear plants and their number is expected to grow as the industry expands.

The move indicates the urgency to insure reactors, especially units 3 and 4 of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant (KKNPP), under the Civil Liability Nuclear Damage Act (CLND), 2010. An agreement with Russia for setting up units 3 and 4 was signed only a week back.

This will also pave way for insuring big-ticket projects like Jaitapur Nuclear Power Project (JNPP) where French firm Areva is constructing 6 EPR reactors of 1650 MW each as also future atomic energy programmes.

In a letter written last week to the Ministry of Finance, DAE has said the formation of Nuclear Insurance Pool should be "expedited" on "priority basis" as suggested by GIC.The volume of the pool will depend on how the government contributes to it for every project.

Interestingly, in Canada, the nuclear liability law caps liability to an extent after which the government takes the responsibility of the remaining liability.

DAE and the Nuclear Power Corporation of India (NPCIL) had approached GIC for insurance. However, the public sector undertaking has said it does not have the capacity to insure the reactors in view of the high cost and also the number of reactors involved.

Kudos to Modi Government for even trying to move forward on this. I think a three tier approach might make sense:

Tier One: Vienna Convention as first loss deductible (initial amount to capped amount)
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Docume ... ility.html

Tier Two: Insurance pool funded by private investors for overage above Tier one deductible up to a specified maximum

Tier Three : Funded by tax on power users and backstopped by Union Government.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Jun 2014 04:32

Cosmo_R wrote:...
Kudos to Modi Government for even trying to move forward on this. I think a three tier approach might make sense:

Tier One: Vienna Convention as first loss deductible (initial amount to capped amount)
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Docume ... ility.html

Tier Two: Insurance pool funded by private investors for overage above Tier one deductible up to a specified maximum

Tier Three : Funded by tax on power users and backstopped by Union Government.

This is report from April, and the move was initiated by the UPA govt. No reason why the current govt cant take it forward responsibly, ensuring that the safety fund is good

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jun 2014 16:08

Indo-Russian nuclear cooperation reviewed at Atomexpo-2014

India asks Russia for enhanced security measures at Kudankulam in addition to the four-channel security system. Moscow confirms India right to reprocess spent fuel.

The full scope of Indo-Russian cooperation in the field of civil nuclear energy was reviewed at the Atomexpo-2014 exhibition that opened in Moscow on Monday, June 9. Representatives from the Nuclear Power Corporation of India and India’s Department of Atomic Energy are taking part at the 3-day conference being organised by Rosatom.

India asked for enhanced security measures at the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant (KNPP), according to PTI news. “We had received a request from India for enhanced safety measures,” the news agency quoted V Asmolov, first deputy general of Rosenergoatom, the Russian nuclear power station operations subsidiary of Rosastom, as saying. “Of course India had to pay more for such kind of system. The Kudankulam plants have four channels of safety system,” Asmolov said.

According to the PTI report, Asomolov added that the existing safety channels were sufficient for an “immediate stopping of chain reaction in case of crisis.” He said, “The system will ensure water supply for cooling of the reactor even if there is a black out for 24 hours.”

Reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel

Russia also said India could reprocess the spent nuclear fuel from KNPP. “Spent fuel is important to India and it has its own facility with a highly qualified staff,” PTI quoted Anzhelika Khaperskaya, chief manager of spent nuclear fuel system creation wing of Rosatom, as saying. “We don’t have the responsibility of the spent fuel from the Kudankulam plant and India can reprocess its spent fuel or even store it.”

India has three operating processing plants that can reprocess spent nuclear fuel based on solvent extraction process.

A plant Trombay reprocesses spent fuel from research reactors with the capacity of 60 tonnes per year. Plants at Tarapur and Kalpakkam process off-site fuels from Pressurized Heavy Water Reactors with operating capacity of 100 tonnes per year each. Additional re-processing facilities are also being set up with the active participation of the Indian industry.

Countries like the US were vary of India’s capability to process spent nuclear fuel, worried that it could be used in the country’s nuclear weapons programme. The Indo-US nuclear deal negotiations were slowed down on account of American concerns over the Indian use of spent nuclear fuel.