India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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RKumar

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RKumar »

udaym wrote:
I'm sure everyone knows that NY Post newspaper is right leaning, nonsense, NY tabloid newspaper. Totally Murdoch style sleazy....nothing more.
Lol ... khan must be kidding.

Do they think, we can be satisfied with such an invisible fish. That was a reaction from danda carrying cop and not any official reaction. Still sticking to their equal equal observations :rotfl:

Just to set the record straight ... Amb kicking out is a welcome step. She and DoS are directly responsible for nannygate episode. Amby is an extension of DoS, so expect few more blows to it
Last edited by RKumar on 06 Apr 2014 16:25, edited 1 time in total.
pankajs
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Business Standard ‏@bsindia 18s

India refuses to consider Khobragade episode closed, saying there are "residual" issues which need to be addressed. http://goo.gl/3gQM7O
Foreign Secretary Sujatha Singh said India has made its expectations clear to the US on the issue and hoped that it will be resolved
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by shiv »

TSJones wrote: ....that would be Hindi not Hindu si 'vous plait. ...lets get with the program shall we?
When the western Anglophone world has to sink into what is considered to be REAL culture it becomes necessary to dust off les expressions Francaises. The Brits - whose aristocracy - the uppah class did this were aped by the Amrikis who harboured a hidden inferiority complex/admiration of Britainstan until the latter became a poodle. But having said that wasn't the "butler" Michael Caine with his Londonistan cockney tainted accent a real laff in Batman? I thought that business was a hangover from those pre-poodle days.

..just sayin.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

SeeEnnEnn reaches India

A factual, short article to start things rolling (downhill..) :roll:
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

Not directly relevant, but has a bearing on the arrested cop:

Live cartridges seized from air passenger
THIRUVANANTHAPURAM, April 6, 2014
Six live cartridges were seized from the hand baggage of a passenger who checked in at the Thiruvananthapuram internatio nal airport on Saturday to board a domestic flight to Mumbai. The cartridges were seized when the passenger, Vinod Agarwal, checked in at the domestic terminal of the airport to board the Jet Airways flight to Mumbai at 1 p.m. The Aviation Security Group (ASG) personnel chanced upon the six live cartridges during X-ray screening.
Another instance of nannygate revenge. /s

Here's another similar arrest from the past, to add to A_Gupta-ji's list:

US national with loaded gun held at Chennai airport
PTI Jun 12, 2009, 01.24am IST
A 58-year-old American citizen was arrested at the airport in Chennai on charges of carrying a loaded revolver and issues of security breach were raised with authorities not ruling out the possibility of him having carried the weapon when he flew in from New Delhi.

The police said Sellmeyer was detained by the Central Industrial Security Force personnel when they found an Austrian-made 'Calibre 40' weapon while scanning his baggage as he arrived to board a Mumbai-bound flight and handed him over to the airport authorities.
....
Last edited by arshyam on 06 Apr 2014 22:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

Looks like the crew of the floating armoury have been released on bail. I was hoping they would be held at least till the elections are over, given that we haven't heard of further reports on their local collaborators and what they were up to. I hope at least the Q branch folks have more info but aren't releasing it.

12 Detained US Ship Crew Released on Bail - Outlook
Nearly six months after their arrest on charges of entering Indian waters illegally, 12 Indian crew members of a US-based ship were today set free from the prison here following the grant of bail by Madras High Court.

The 12, who were among the 33 detained crew members of the anti-piracy vessel M V Seaman Guard Ohio, were released from the Palayamkottai Central Prison after bail papers were produced before the jail authorities, police said.

The other 21 foreign crew members of the ship are lodged in the Puzhal Central Prison in Chennai and are expected to be released upon completion of bail formalities.

The crew, arrested on October 18 last year after their ship was intercepted by Indian Coast Guard off Tuticorin port, were granted conditional bail by the Madurai Bench of the Madras High Court on March 26.

Though the court initially ordered them to furnish a surety of Rs 2 lakh each, later it modified the order and asked them to deposit Rs 25 lakh for all the 33 crew put together as surety with the Tuticorin Court.

However, the court denied bail to the ship's captain Dudinik Valentyn and its Vice-Captain Paul David Dennish Towers.

As part of the bail condition, the crew had been asked to stay in Mylapore in Chennai and sign before the Q branch Police there in the morning and evening till further orders. {Normally, will their passports be impounded so they don't leave?}

The crew was arrested after the Coast Guard personnel found the ship carrying arms illegally in Indian waters off Tuticorin, a charge denied by the vessel authorities.

They are facing charges under the Arms Act and Essential Commodities Act, which was invoked as the ship had allegedly bought diesel from a local agent in violation of law.

A judicial magistrate court in Tuticorin remanded them to judicial custody following which 12 Indians were lodged at Palayamkottai Prison and the others were taken to the Chennai Puzhal prison.

US firm AdvanFort International, which owns the ship, had been maintaining that the vessel was involved in anti-piracy operations and had not strayed into Indian waters.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by A_Gupta »

UlanBatori wrote:SeeEnnEnn reaches India

A factual, short article to start things rolling (downhill..) :roll:
They changed the headline? From the comments:
da_flippity_flop • 25 minutes ago

Confession: I'm only here because I slightly misread the headline of "India's mind-blowingly huge election" . . .
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

That was the come-on headline on their front page. It IS mind-blowingly huge.. Nearly a million polling booths??
Not to mention.. parties so well organized that they don't come out with their manifesto until after the polls close. Brilliant strategy. Try matching THAT, Americans!

Ooops! Thanks chetakji! :oops:
Last edited by UlanBatori on 06 Apr 2014 22:42, edited 1 time in total.
chetak
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

UlanBatori wrote:That was the come-on headline on their front page. It IS mind-blowingly huge.. Nearly a million polling booths??
Not to mention.. parties so well organized that they don't come out with their manifesto until after the polls close. Brilliant strategy. Try matching THAT, Americans!
UB ji,

I think that he meant to say that he misread "election" as "erection" :)

Dirty minded buggers
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by A_Gupta »

UranBatoli, so many people have made fun of the Chinese "r/l" pronunciation on BRF that I'm sulprised you didn't catch it in this mind-browing case.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Guptaji: In Uran Batol we all vely vely sensitive about Human Lights. (do u have to lub it in, hain?) :(

US Human Rights Panel faces exposure

This is an interesting development. In one article, Chidanand Rajghatta has exposed several things, if you read carefully. The conflict of interest is blatant: the first witness is a (bibi of Lantos?) person of known hatred towards the majority of Indians.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

UlanBatori wrote:Guptaji: In Uran Batol we all vely vely sensitive about Human Lights. (do u have to lub it in, hain?) :( US Human Rights Panel faces exposureThis is an interesting development. In one article, Chidanand Rajghatta has exposed several things, if you read carefully. The conflict of interest is blatant: the first witness is a (bibi of Lantos?) person of known hatred towards the majority of Indians.
Old Man Lantos was the most arrogant and hypocrite person who felt insulted that a brown Indian dared to challenged him in Primary. Even his colleagues in Congress could not stand his ego. Natural for family to carrying the same burden to run down Yindian.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

So MH-370 has become a Uran Khatola.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by rsingh »

Singha wrote:TSJ has been given a week's break from BR.
Danke
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

local collaborators
What better way than to make them pay for the upkeep of these guys?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Both sides emphasise that the relationship is far better than it was during the Cold War when President Richard M Nixon sent the 7th Fleet into the Bay of Bengal to threaten India.

“This relationship is one that still needs nurturing,” said K Shankar Bajpai, a former Indian ambassador to the US. “And there doesn’t seem to be anyone on either side doing that.”

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/397 ... years.html

Indian officials also point to a host of other irritants that could derail any easing of tension, including a potential downgrade in status by the US trade representative in response to complaints by companies such as the drugmaker Pfizer that India does not protect patents; an investigation by the US International Trade Commission that Indians consider insulting; complaints about the quality of Indian-made pharmaceuticals; and complex disagreements over taxes, immigration and manufacturing policies that could hurt Indian interests.
onlee baboo speak or this largely reflects across multiple areas of collaborations - if any?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Karan Dixit »

UlanBatori wrote:SeeEnnEnn reaches India

A factual, short article to start things rolling (downhill..) :roll:
It is truly a historic moment to see the beginning of downhill skiing from CNN. This article will go down in 'anus' of the history for that reason.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Nurturing? It nedes an axe to sever the deadwood supposedly "thinling heads" in the US,who have already started whining about the "Hindu extremist BJP","riot tainted Modi",and now "alarm" over the BJP's manifesto about reviewing defence issues,quick decision making and a review of our NFU policy when our mortal enemies have not adhered to the same principle.

The scumbags and sh*tworms of the US SD and White House want nothing more than a totally subservient India,a Yanqui slave,which will allow it to ride roughshod over the Indian economy,foreign and defence policies.
We should through our vote,tell the Yanquis and their fellow travellers in the West to simply FO!
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Brahma Chellaney ‏@Chellaney 1h

U.S. sees strategic value in closer ties with India? Or hypes the strategic partnership to gain wider market access? http://goo.gl/zU66vg
The future of Indo-US ties now lies squarely on America's shoulders
From our perspective, the present ambassador has outlived her utility. With regard to the State Department role in Khobragade's arrest and the evacuation of the maid's family, either the ambassador misjudged our reaction and therefore gave faulty advice, or she gave the right counsel but it was disregarded, which would suggest that her clout in Washington is limited.

In either case her usefulness, in any serious attempt to put the relationship back on track, is questionable.

A more serious political misjudgment by the US, for which the ambassador cannot escape blame, is the failure to mend political fences with Narendra Modi in a timely manner following the European example.

Worse for her credibility, the day she met Modi, the State Department declared that the visa policy towards him remained unchanged.

The ambassador would have undoubtedly been consulted beforehand about how her overture to Modi would be "balanced" at the Washington end, which further underscores the inept political handling of the US relationship with the BJP's prime ministerial candidate.

<...>
If US interest has flagged because the promised opening of the Indian market has not occurred and our growth rate has fallen, can one conclude that the US-India "strategic partnership" is largely a function of board room strategies of US corporations?

If so, is the US hyping up its strategic partnership with India to essentially gain wider access to our expanding market?

<...>
Even if this strategic partnership is taken at face value, the US "system" makes it very difficult to deal with this kind of a relationship with America.

Separate constituents of the Administration, the Congress, the intelligence agencies, NGOs, think-tanks, foundations, a variety of lobbies, can all play a constructive or a destructive role in conducting relations between the US and other countries.

<...>
While the non-proliferation lobby in the State Department has been subdued by the India-US nuclear deal, the human rights, human trafficking, minority protection units seem to be propelled by their own logic vis-a-vis India independently of the logic of the overall relationship in which the stakeholders on the US side have interests that obviously transcend dedicated moral pursuits by human rights activists in the US foreign office.

<...>
Presumably this partnership was based on a wider US geopolitical objective of consolidating the global system established by the West post-1945 by co-opting a huge and rising Asian country like India through intensified engagement, so that the inevitable re-ordering of the balance of power within the system is done under the aegis of the US rather than in opposition to it.

This objective will be increasingly difficult to achieve if the US continues with its regime change policies, refuses to see the terrible societal costs of its democracy and human rights promotion policies, or curbs its tendency to unilaterally sanction countries whose policies it disagrees with, as we see even in the case of a nuclear-armed permanent UN Security Council member like Russia.

What strategic lesson should weaker and more vulnerable countries draw from this?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Yesterdin 6th coujin saw a visiting desi Think-tanker who was expounding on indi-china blah-blah, and getting questions on why India was s*cking up to Japan in their bissing contest with China: Will India now join ASEAN??
The guy was waffling and humming and hawing, so 6th coujin asked:
Doesn't popular opinion in India generally favor non-alignment when it comes to superpower spats?

Answer:
No no no no no yaar, NonAlignment is all long dead, that was in Cold War days onlee!

Apparently couldn't see that today the 2 Superpowers in today's bissing contest are China and Obamastan. That is the first symptom of the big problem in India, unchanged from 1962 when the heehaw Sandhurst-Bilayat-retarned Indian jarnails and brigadiers ordered poorly-prepared, barefooted Kerala Police draftees carrying .303 rifles that they had never fired, to go "kick our those (Brish1t cuss word) from the Himalayas!" without bothering to learn why they had managed to take over all of China.

Thoughtless ego and colonial racism prevent the Indian Strategic Think Tanks from recognizing that the world has changed since the Cold War, but that common sense strategies such as Non Alignment With Superpower Camps remain unchanged. That becoming a Pakistan-II is STILL not a good idea.
Indians are very much pro-US onlee, our democratic tradishuns are much closer to USA onlee, but what to do, geographically we are tied very close to the Chinese!


Translation: (never mind, shiv can understand that, I am sure)
6th coujin tried to point out that Culturally, Indians are much closer to the Chinese, just to see if that would ignite some thinking. As much effect as pouring water on a dead fish. :(

If India is to "counter" China, "we" need to start by learning Mandarin, learning Chinese history from the time of Sun Tzu to today, and trying to understand why they have won practically every war they have entered (forget casualty counts: those ARE the best lessons that they don't just give up or get scared by any adversary).

Instead the style seems to be to view China from the neo-colonialist perspective, aligning blindly with people who live on the other side of the Duniya.

As 6th coujin left, a (Chinese) PhD candidate came up to him, introduced herself and asked: "Is he very famous in India?" :roll:
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Johann »

If it isn't my long-lost Mongolian friend Ulan-Batorji!! :) I'd been concerned that the old ticker had given in out of sheer boredom after one too many faculty meetings.

I will of course beg to differ. I don't think the GoI has given anything away to the USG for free. Its bought some weapons with its own money, and the Americans don't want to lose a paying customer.

An Indian friend, perhaps your seventh cousin rather frankly mentioned that many of the powers that be in Lutyenabad had no problem with Americans stirring the pot in Afghanistan if that kept the jihadis busy, and a third of the Pakistan Army tied down at the cost of their own blood and treasure.

As for the Chinese, Nehru certainly did hope for a close relationship - it was Mao, then Deng and every gentle secretary after them who took the attitude that there could not be 'two tigers on a mountain,' and chose to see India as competitor rather than a partner. For the most part India seems to have tried to repair this breach time and time again, but wouldn't you say its ultimately up to Beijing to come around.

Playing at closer relationships with America, Japan and the Yellow Sea states is one way to mix things up. So is growing trade. So is the ability to reach Beijing. Seems rather balanced to me...

The problem is that exceptionally large states do tend to like to play the big brother, which also means arm twisting smaller brothers - and thats true whether is the US, China, Russia or India that we're talking about.

When is the last time a Chinese Empire had a peer state right next to it? Not on the distant periphery that barely mattered. There are no distant peripheries any more. Modern China's historical sense of itself has to come to terms with modern realities and adjust its expectations. That is going to be a slow process.

p.s. two of the last three times the Chinese went to war abroad, its been a very mixed outcome. The PRC won a healthy dose of respect but the Korean War was supposed to make sure America left China's borders and East Asia in general. American troops are *still* in Korea and Japan, 60 years later. The invasion of Vietnam in 1978 was supposed to make the Vietnamese give up their control of Cambodia. The Vietnamese only left a decade later, and they still have far more influence there than China does. The only clean, decisive Red Chinese victory after 1949 was on poor little Tibet, and India.
Last edited by Johann on 08 Apr 2014 21:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Johann, where have you been?

UB interesting perespective on recent events in Ukraine if cast in US-PRC duopoly game.
Maybe US is trying to isolate PRC by slapping Putin around in Ukraine. Instead he detached Crimea to show he is still reelvant.


Tell your 6th cousin I think US wants the Crown jewel without paying the price that British paid in their graveyards dotting all the cantonment towns. US thinks they are succesors to Great Britain and hence flatter Surrender Singh type rats.
The market access is a way to channel Indian economy to support their status in thier dual race.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

Neither US nor Japan wants to test China in a direct confrontation. There is no reason why India should be the guineapig for that experiment. Russia and China seem to have reconciled to some sort of equilibrium. There are going to be four poles in Asia - they are large with proud people with hoary history. US has to live with the reality that these countries would not be subservient like their European cousins or the techno-dependent middle easterners.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 08 Apr 2014 23:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Johann! Good to see you here.
No disagreement on the above. My 6th coujin was merely pointing out that Indian public opinion is not so much in favor of leaning towards the US as to alienate China completely. Absolutely true that a "friendly" relationship with China is not going to be one of trust, but one of grudging mutual respect. But there is no sense in joining "ASEAN", the descendant of SEATO, CENTO etc and becoming a command poodle. That is SURELY no way to make for good relations with China.

Underlying all the competition (and the competition is extremely real!!) is the sense that Indians and Chinese share the Himalayas (at least as long as the China border doesn't come down to Lucknow), the "Asian" label and history. When the present generation is gone, I doubt if the new wunderkinden of China will even understand that, THEY seem to be going Hamburger-Fries much faster than Indians. As long as India stays independent in foreign policy and military power, China has more to lose by alienating India than by allowing a peaceful (albeit suspicious) co-existence.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

The shape of things to come and western hypocrisy exposed.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... ar-weapons

Indian election alarm as BJP raises prospect of nuclear weapons rethink

Hindu nationalist opposition party, which is tipped to win lower house majority, causes concern with manifesto

Xcpts:
[quote]The Hindu nationalist opposition party tipped to win India's election has sparked concern with a manifesto which, though largely devoted to economic development, setss out uncompromising hardline positions on contentious issues and raises the prospect of a revision of the country's policy on use of its nuclear weapons.

However, it is the prospect of a revision of India's nuclear doctrine, whose central principle is that New Delhi would not be first to use atomic weapons in a conflict, that has worried many in the region and beyond. Party sources involved in drafting the document told Reuters the "no first use" policy introduced would be reconsidered. The policy was introduced after India, then under a BJP government, conducted a series of nuclear tests in 1998. Pakistan, India's neighbour responded within weeks with nuclear tests of its own.

"For a long time there has been an assumption that India would not use nuclear weapons first. Given the existing tensions with Pakistan and the fact that those tensions are likely to rise as US troops leave Afghanistan [at the end of this year], this could well cause stress in Pakistan's security establishment which is really not something anyone [in Washington] desires," said Michael Kugelman, of the Woodrow Wilson International Center.

"There should be a strong government in Delhi so that the world doesn't threaten us. We need to hold our heads high and match the world," Modi said in Delhi."
[quote]

Poor darling rent boy Pak! India might cause "stress" in Pak's security establishment's anus,that has been rogered for decades by an US!
It indicates where America's true concerns lie and who it lusts after and fornicates in bed with!
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Johann »

Thank you for the warm welcome Ramana & United Breweries!
UlanBatori wrote:Johann! Good to see you here.
No disagreement on the above. My 6th coujin was merely pointing out that Indian public opinion is not so much in favor of leaning towards the US as to alienate China completely. Absolutely true that a "friendly" relationship with China is not going to be one of trust, but one of grudging mutual respect. But there is no sense in joining "ASEAN", the descendant of SEATO, CENTO etc and becoming a command poodle. That is SURELY no way to make for good relations with China.

Underlying all the competition (and the competition is extremely real!!) is the sense that Indians and Chinese share the Himalayas (at least as long as the China border doesn't come down to Lucknow), the "Asian" label and history. When the present generation is gone, I doubt if the new wunderkinden of China will even understand that, THEY seem to be going Hamburger-Fries much faster than Indians. As long as India stays independent in foreign policy and military power, China has more to lose by alienating India than by allowing a peaceful (albeit suspicious) co-existence.
I'm not at all sure that Indian public opinion on China is 1) taken into account by GoI policymakers or 2) that its surprising given the PRC's consistently antagonistic and condescending tone. I mean Indians might not like Australia, but they didn't fight and lose a war against it. And at least most Indians who migrate there do alright. People read the papers. I imagine there would be changes if the Chinese state puts some real effort into communicating through public diplomacy that it fundamentally admires and respects India (however tough negotiations are behind the scenes) or b) there's a *lot* more people-people contact between Indian citizens and Chinese Mainlanders, preferably in China. The growing volumes of trade might be good in that regard in the medium term. Possibly not in the short term though - Mainland Chinese have a lot of prejudices and practices they are still working through.

p.s. ASEAN was *nothing* like SEATO. It was formed by de-colonised Asian countries that didn't want to be pushed around by the PRC, and wanted to talk to each other as neighbours first before they talked to a Western state about their problems.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Hitesh »

Johann,

Great to see you back!! I had fear that you had disappeared for good!! We miss your insights and thoughtful informative posts. Do not leave us again with too long of an absence!
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Johann:

Indian opinion on China and Chinese people (not necessarily the same thing) is, as you might imagine, very complex. For one thing, there is a very large and powerful CPI(M) presence, with members indoctrinated on the People's Revolution etc. Large swaths of the nation are under their control, either through elected governments, local governments, local goon power, or outright gunpoint. Surely this cannot happen without some significant admiration of the PRC.

Most people's feelings towards Chinese people are, I think, very kind. NOTHING antagonistic. Commercial relations are also good: note that China has a very large positive balance of trade with India as with any other nation (except Pakistan which does not pay them anything, I guess), and there is a growing and I would say thriving Indian business migration to China. Given rising disparity in standards of living, you can imagine that in the near future, if not already, Chinese businesses will see Indian sweatshops as even better deals than Chinese sweatshops.

And, it surely helps a lot that some of the biggest newspapers are basically owned and run by PRC interests. The issue of large numbers of lawmakers being bought by the PRC has not come out in the media, I expect that it exists, as much as in the US (Capitarist Paper Tigers will sell us the rope with which to hang them, etc).
Most stunningly, remember that no less than the GOI went into this brilliant scheme of inviting Chinese collaboration to develop the infamous Kaveri Jet Engine.... (shades of the Indo-Egyptian HF-24). Chinese heavy machinery vendors compete directly in the Indian power sector, even in public sector projects.

Anyway, all these mean that the relationship is very complex. The 1962 war is, I think, largely forgotten, or attributed to incompetence and inability of Indian armed forces of that period to survive the Himalayan cold and altitude compared to the mercilessly driven and super tenacious Chinese who "need only a little bowl of rice and some meat to survive".
OTOH, of course there is sheer fear and a fatalistic view that China is far ahead. BUT... as far as I know, no hate factor. It is extremely tough to sell the idea that huge investment is needed to counter Chinese military expansion and encirclement. The general counter is that this is petty jealosy at a nation of hard-working people who are extremely successful at having advanced the wealth and standards of living of their people, and who stand up to the western powers.

JMO of course, ducking the mijjiles from the uber-gung-ho brethren now. Might get banned for derailing the US-admiration thread. 8)
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

India vs. China vs India and China as friends. :)

Vo Nguyen Giap once said "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". I heard him speak at an event for JLN in Hanoi in 1954. Unfortunately, he spoke in Vietnamese and even if he had spoken in English I would not have understood. I did not speak English then and I was six years old. But, I have the photos and he may well have uttered those famous lines then. Who knew? I have some photos.

India-PRC relationship will depend on whether they want to hollow out our manufacturing base to keep employment up at home. The 'hidden mace' is that in India it's not about lower labor costs—it's about the cost of doing business in India.

For example, IF and I say IF, reports are to be believed, the SU-30MKI would be 20-30% cheaper if ordered off the shelf from the Russkies vs 'built' by HAL.

Want Bullet trains? the PRC will supply them off the shelf and with Chinese laborers to put in the rails. Want Connectivity ? Huawei will turnkey it along with '24x7x365' recordings to 'assure quality'.

If the PRC are so aggressive with the US

http://news.yahoo.com/china-calls-u-res ... 42381.html

Imagine what they think of us.
ramana
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Wow Cosmo_R great background!

In the Managing China Thread, I X-posted an article which had some interesting economic costs data.
Basically it says China is subsidizing the world with its exports.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1621699
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

UlanBatori wrote:

Most people's feelings towards Chinese people are, I think, very kind. NOTHING antagonistic. Commercial relations are also good: note that China has a very large positive balance of trade with India as with any other nation (except Pakistan which does not pay them anything, I guess), and there is a growing and I would say thriving Indian business migration to China. Given rising disparity in standards of living, you can imagine that in the near future, if not already, Chinese businesses will see Indian sweatshops as even better deals than Chinese sweatshops.

It is not about feeling between people but about the interest of the Indian nation and Indian state.

But the trade between India and PRC is actually done by mostly US companies. That is interesting. Somehow the India PRC trade is being facilitated by US entities. This needs to be understood


The US policy for India is also under the control of PRC lobby. They could veto or dilute the US India agreements with money

So now PRC govt is actually funding the Chinese who are entering US and buying homes with Cash in the west coast.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

K.P. Nayar uvacha


Exiting Excellencies
EXITING EXCELLENCIES
- What made two US ambassadors in Delhi resign successively?
Diplomacy: K.P. Nayar


When two successive ambassadors throw in the towel before completion of their tenures, it is obvious that the relationship between their country and the host government is in trouble. With pundits in New Delhi spinning out theories that range from the bizarre to the ridiculous about Nancy Powell’s resignation, it has not registered adequately among the public that she is not the first ambassador of the United States of America to leave New Delhi prematurely in very recent times. Her predecessor, Timothy Roemer, who was chosen amidst great fanfare, because he is a former Democratic Congressman from Indiana, also resigned before the end of his tenure. Roemer was appointed by Barack Obama soon after becoming president for the first time in 2009, when there were hopes that Washington would pursue relations with New Delhi with the same vigour that characterized the George W. Bush administration’s interest in India.

Such an expectation was not entirely misplaced because Obama showed enough interest in India to visit the country within a year. The order of priorities in a first presidential term is weighed with great care in Washington because they determine a president’s re-election. Obviously, Obama concluded then that India would play a role, howsoever small, in getting him a second term in the White House. Such a conclusion had its basis in a sense of entitlement in dealings with India that was pervasive in Washington ever since the Americans helped end India’s long nuclear winter with the nuclear deal crafted in 2005. Roemer paid the price with his resignation when he failed to encash that sense of entitlement and bring new jobs for Americans with a massive order from the Indian Air Force for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) in favour of American companies that had bid for the biggest military aviation deal in history.

He quit the day the ministry of defence decided that the Americans were out of the MMRCA race for the IAF’s modernization. Yet, hopes of thriving Indo-US relations were not belied on account of the Indian decision on fighter planes at that time. Although Roemer took personal responsibility for his country’s failure to bag the lucrative contract, he made it clear that the US was not giving up on its pursuit of economic interests in India, especially its efforts to create more jobs in America out of those interests. His departure statement emphasized this point: “The sale of C130J aircraft and the pending sale of C-17s strengthen the strategic partnership between our two countries and demonstrate our enduring commitment to sharing the world’s best technology with India. Our defence partnership offers economic benefits for both India and the US, and significant job creation in both countries.”

The resignation of a second US ambassador to India in succession, however, ought to make Indians sit up and take a comprehensive look at their relationship with Washington. Roemer’s resignation offered an opportunity for course correction on both sides. That did not happen. Not only did it not happen, worse still, the slide that forced him to quit Roosevelt House — the residence of the American ambassador in the capital’s diplomatic enclave, Chanakyapuri — continued unchecked to a point where Indo-US relations are now in a crisis.

Notwithstanding what Nancy Powell has said in public as the rationale for her decision to leave New Delhi, she had made Roosevelt House her home less than two years ago with the full intention of serving a full term in this country, which she likes and is very familiar with because of her career-graph. She even picked artifacts for her residence with great thought and care. A statue of Eleanor Roosevelt, for example, was one of her choices. Eleanor, wife of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and chairwoman of the presidential commission on the status of women, is someone she looks up to. Today, there is some irony in the choice of that statue because Eleanor Roosevelt was America’s longest serving first lady for 12 years. Powell’s, on the other hand, will be one of the shortest tenures in Roosevelt House in recent times. As someone familiar with the embassy residence in Chanakyapuri, Powell knew exactly where she would place that statue well before she arrived in New Delhi. She said so to a small group of people in Washington, including this columnist, a few days after her confirmation by the Senate in March, 2012. No one takes such care with preparations on a diplomatic posting unless they intend to enjoy the posting and serve a full term.

The blame for the state of affairs in Indo-US relations, which has been brought to its current low phase, lies on both sides. No more than a handful of Indians have had any sound ideas on what India wants from the relationship with the US. When the Soviet Union broke up and P.V. Narasimha Rao began gingerly reaching out to the Americans, many Indians believed that they could simply replace Moscow with Washington and carry on as if nothing else had changed. Indians are not alone in pursuing such a mistakenly innocent approach to diplomacy. Many former satellite states of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in eastern Europe assumed the same and put the US on the same pedestal occupied by the Soviets between the end of World War II and the collapse of the USSR. They have paid a big price for that mistake not only in terms of statecraft but also by yardsticks of national pride and honour.

Last year, when some senior political figures from Australia met an Indian member of Parliament, the latter told the visitors that India does not have to bother with Australia. “When we want something, we tell the Americans and they do it for us,” the MP said to suppressed derision from his interlocutors. These visitors knew only too well that if such an approach does not work for Australia, a staunch US ally, it cannot do so with India.

Speculation that Rajiv Shah, administrator of the United States Agency for International Development, Washington’s arm for overseas aid, would be sent to succeed Powell is another example of simplistic pitfalls in New Delhi on relations with Washington. In the first place, Shah’s current job is a cabinet-level post. Cabinet members have, in the past, been pulled out and sent as ambassadors, but that has been to China, for example.

India is not China — at least, not yet. If Shah is, indeed, sent to Chanakyapuri, that will be a signal that Obama has grown a big stake in India. Even then, the choice will fall on Shah not because he is of Gujarati descent and Narendra Modi happens to be a Gujarati as well. That is not how US diplomacy operates: if that had been the case, America’s foreign policy would only have been in the same class as that of the United Arab Emirates or Kuwait, where such considerations determine overseas postings.

Several years ago, by chance, the head of a huge US multinational ran into me at a reception in St Louis, Missouri. When he found out that I am an Indian journalist, he buttonholed me because his conglomerate was bidding for a big Indian contract and he asked me how long it would be before the deal was his. I told him that it would take five years, but also that the US was not likely to bag the order. He dismissed my answer, adding that everything had been tied up and would be delivered to him in six months. Three years later, we were in the same room in New York, but I did not recognize him. He did. He was gracious enough to tell me that I was right. He was still chasing the contract that he thought would be his much earlier. I had told him what I did, not because I had any inside information, but because that is not how India works.

Most Americans who venture into India either for a slice of the economic cake or for strategic gains are ignorant of its uniquely ‘Hindu’ style of functioning, for want of a better description. And lately, they have been ill-served by the recruitment of former civil servants who often tell the Americans what they want to hear. Timothy Roemer and Nancy Powell paid a price for this, and Indo-US relations have suffered on that account.

telegraph_dc@yahoo.com
Cosmo_R he is saying the same thing you are but in a different manner.
The 'hidden mace' is that in India it's not about lower labor costs—it's about the cost of doing business in India.
Cosmo_R
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

@ ramana

Yup. That is the 'hidden mace' WRT to India

Also, someday I will have the courage and (techsmarts) to post the JLN/Hanoi photos. I don't think anyone will recognize me today from them. :)
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Am finding out about the Hidden Mace... tax refund for SHQ is in la-la-land, and the "TRACES" website that one checks to find out income reported and taxes deducted at source - just says: "Site nat availabal doo to technical reejan onlee". Apparently they have fixed it so that it cannot be accessed from Ulan Bator (or anywhere outside India). And they have corrupted the user ID/pwd database so that even if you get in (by getting help inside India) one cannot get in - one HAS to go hire an acct. With April 15 tax filing deadline looming. (ah, yes, one has solved the problem and got the data one needed.. #&^%$! Could have paid less Ulan Bator tax without the data!
Since UBCNews is not a threatening multinational corp, but just a mango human from mangolia, I imagine that GOI has nothing specific against us. Imagine what they can do to corporations that they DO want to slow down a bit...
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by sooraj »

Why did US send comedians to India: Senator asks John Kerry
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/wh ... ry/1239407
ramana
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

sooraj wrote:Why did US send comedians to India: Senator asks John Kerry
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/wh ... ry/1239407

I thought they were asking about self assessment from Kerry!

Mis-fortunately Kerry didnt know three lafangas were sent on "Make Chai not War" tour!

More were on the Embassy staff in the BDS etc.

I guess Kerry should read/listen to NPR!

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/04/144688443 ... r-to-india

and they had their own webiste.

Point is what war are they talking about? India is not at war with anybody. Surrender Singh was on double duty to ensure that never happens to US munna.

OTH its TSP that keeps beheading Indian soldiers in India.

Did India need this psy-ops?

Reading the NPR article looks like those three guys re-connected with their roots thanks to generous State Dept duffers.


anmol, You should have scooped this!!!
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

sooraj wrote:Why did US send comedians to India: Senator asks John Kerry
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/wh ... ry/1239407
This is part of Aman Ki Asha project...
State Department Sends 'Chai' Comedy Tour To India
by Elizabeth Blair, npr.org
January 4th 2012

"Diplomacy with a laugh," is how you might describe one of the U.S. State Department's latest efforts to promote American culture abroad.

This week, three Indian-American comedians began a seven-city tour of India called Make Chai Not War. But apart from their shared Indian heritage, these three comedians have very different styles.

Rajiv Satyal, a former marketer for Procter & Gamble, is waif-thin and nearly bald. He was raised in southwest Ohio and says his "TV-clean act resonates with Middle America."

Azhar Usman, from Chicago, is big and burly, with long hair and a full beard. He likes to tell audiences that "I'm fully aware that most of you have never seen someone like me smile."

And Hari Kondabolu, from Queens, N.Y., is edgy and cerebral. One of his jokes likens a bad relationship with an aggressive English woman to the British colonization of India.

Satyal started Make Chai Not War in 2007 to give Indian-American comics a platform. Usman says so far they've performed a handful of shows around the U.S.

"Whenever we've staged it," says Usman, "we've always gotten a solid turn-out by Indians of all stripes: Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, atheists, what-have-you."

When Usman was performing in London a few years ago, he caught the attention of Michael Macy, who at the time was the cultural attache for the U.S. Embassy there. Macy thought Usman was hilarious, so when he moved to a post in New Delhi, he brought Usman over for a solo tour of India. That got the ball rolling to bring Make Chai Not War to India.

The tour for the three comedians is costing about $88,000 — which might prompt questions about why the State Department is sponsoring stand-up comedy. Macy says it's because stand-up is a unique part of American culture.

"This commitment to free speech, this commitment to free discussion of what can be difficult or sensitive topics, it's very American," Macy says.

While all three comedians have visited extended family in India, Usman is the only one who's performed there. Since so much of comedy is about cultural references and language, Hari Kondabolu says, he's as nervous as his is excited. He might have Indian roots, but he is very much an American.

"Part of what we do as comedians — or at least what I do — is to figure out where those boundaries are and see what I want to push, because I'm trying to make a point. And I don't really know where the boundaries are in another country," he says.

So he's been reading up on Indian news "and chatting with my mom a lot," he says. She's originally from Hyderabad.

Usman says there will be no State Department censorship on this tour.

"We're invited over there as artists. The whole premise of a tour like this is that we are comedians. We enjoy freedom of speech. And, as Americans, we can say whatever we want to say," he says.

All three comedians say it's a thrill to be able to perform in their parents' homeland. And diplomatic ambitions or no, Satyal says the real goal of the Make Chai Not War tour of India is simple: some great new jokes and hopefully a lot of laughs.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

anmol wrote:
sooraj wrote:Why did US send comedians to India: Senator asks John Kerry
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/wh ... ry/1239407
This is part of Aman Ki Asha project...
State Department Sends 'Chai' Comedy Tour To India
by Elizabeth Blair, npr.org
January 4th 2012

"Diplomacy with a laugh," is how you might describe one of the U.S. State Department's latest efforts to promote American culture abroad.

This week, three Indian-American comedians began a seven-city tour of.....
What I have come across of the artists is not particularly funny. Anyone knowledgeable about their comedy?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Hitesh »

I recall several posts detailing the history where US engaged in duplicitious acts by interfering with other elections in other countries or fomenting unrest or trouble and using that as a pretext to send in peacekeepers or forces.

Can anyone provide examples?
anmol
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

Image
Law enforcement has access to technology that enables them to see where child rape videos are being shared in real time. (Photo via TheBlaze TV)


Ballard said the criminals “never look like bad guys,” and are absolutely everywhere. He even showed Beck a map that can pinpoint where child rape videos are being shared in real time, and it is horrific. For privacy reasons, the map showed only vague geographical areas, but law enforcement has access to the exact addresses. Beck said he’s seen a zoomed-in image of the affluent area where he lives in Texas, and it was terrifying.

Glenn Beck’s Audience Donated Over $1 Million to Fight Child Sex Trafficking. Here Are Some of the Kids They Saved.
by Erica Ritz, theblaze.com
April 8th 2014 8:05 PM
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