Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

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Virupaksha
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Virupaksha »

Hitesh wrote:Virukpaksha,

that is highly misleading. What you should be looking at is the number of vehicles on the roads and the fatalities associated with it. Compared to USA's number of vehicles on the road, India is vastly lower on the list and yet tops on the list with the highest fatalities.
the actual figure should be number of vehicles owners * number of occupants, even more strictly speaking the "road users" - including the pedestrians. Also please account for time spent on road and actual distance travelled in your calculations somehow.

For example in USA, a single person owns multiple vehicles. So according to your calculation, you have increased your denominator by more than the population of the country. A person should be in multiple vehicles at the same time to make sense. in short - absurd. Or say India where the same car will carry 5 people instead of 1, the usual norm in other countries which decreases the denominator to absurd levels. The buses in India do carry people, even though all the people do not drive a vehicle. I cant think of a single argument to not counting these people under road users. I would say counting only the motor vehicles is one of the most misleading indicators.

If you can give that figure, yaa sure go ahead. If not, the population is a very very good approximation for comparision purposes.
Last edited by Virupaksha on 15 Jan 2012 16:06, edited 1 time in total.
Hitesh
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Hitesh »

Ok fine,

Then I would do is count the number of vehicles on the road and count only one fatality per vehicle per accident. That would take care of the disproportionate numbers but still reflect the dangers of road traffic in an useful metric way.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Virupaksha »

Hitesh wrote:Ok fine,

Then I would do is count the number of vehicles on the road and count only one fatality per vehicle per accident. That would take care of the disproportionate numbers but still reflect the dangers of road traffic in an useful metric way.
As I said please give the figures if you have them. Even I am interested in finding them out.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by harbans »

Virupaksha wrong spin. Highly dangerous thing to promulgate the way you are putting it. By your logic countries like North Korea that have hardly any vehicles display exemplary traffic safety. Look at it in terms of number of vehicles or fatalities per unit kms run by vehicles. India is doing amongst the worst in the world. Nothing to be proud or complacent about.

The fact hat we have surpassed China in total road accidents, which sells 6 times more vehicles than India does with a marginal extra population than us..speaks for itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate
It (WHO) said 90% of deaths on the world's roads occur in low and middle-income countries (21.5 and 19.5 per lakh of population, respectively) though they have just 48% of all registered vehicles.
INdia leads the world in ROad Deaths
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Lalmohan »

one of the reasons RTA fatalities in India are low-ish is that traffic speeds are still relatively low. once the quality of roads improves, the fatalities will shoot up as average speeds rise, and then hopefully stabilise at a lower level once people figure out that current practices are unsafe. in terms of dents and scratches and minor collisions, India must be one of the highest
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Virupaksha »

Harbans,
Second parts true and both shown by my statistic clearly.

and tomorrow I will write an article of how antarctica has the LOWEST in road deaths and thus must strive to be more like antarctica. or say parts of Sahara desert where there are no roads.
lalmohan, India will cross the bridge when it comes to it or even decide it can take an different bridge.
Last edited by Virupaksha on 15 Jan 2012 16:31, edited 3 times in total.
Sanku
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Sanku »

^^^

Indian traffic deaths are overwhelmingly (90%?) in the class of pedestrians and cyclists and other two wheelers. Very little of these deaths have anything do with most issues that are discussed here.

The core reason is massively mixed traffic, with everything from cycle to a super car.

Thats not going to change, so people should stop venting and actually think what traffic solutions will work in India as opposed to the crap dished out by a random brit-turd.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Purush »

Virupaksha wrote:I have no idea where you guys are pulling your facts from.
http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2 ... 40_eng.pdf

According to WHO, travel fatalities per 1,00,000 of population
World Average: ~20
Germany: ~7
USA:14
UK:6
Italy:10
India: 9
China:7

Oh and it works out to around 105725 deaths per year in India which is around 290 deaths per day. Not at all saying that we shouldnt improve traffic discipline or anything like that. Whatever India is doing with its traffic and everything else, we seem to be in the right around in the middle of global DEVELOPED countries with respect to the fatalities. So can we please put a stop to this propaganda business?
Since this is going OT, Please see reply here, in the Roads thread.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1227259
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Purush »

Guys, please take it to the Roads thread before the Admins conduct a lathi charge.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shiv »

Purush wrote: Just one of the recent links from google news.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 419702.cms
BANGALORE: Less than a week after a five-year-old boy knocked on the doors of the Karnataka high court seeking compensation of Rs 5 lakh for being bitten by street dogs, a pack of strays attacked a fourand-a-half-year-old at Sarakki Circle, off Kanakapura Road, on Sunday morning.

The dogs bit the toddler on his face and mauled him. :( Passersby hurled stones at the dogs and chased them away.
Sharing the cities with animals, my musharraf! :evil:

Which makes me think that dogs are allowed to roam freely not because of some great cultural mindset (no, it is a merely a H&D cover) but because of criminal negligence of urban authorities and a few city dwellers. :-?
My reply here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1227270
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Aditya_V »

Hitesh wrote:Virukpaksha,

that is highly misleading. What you should be looking at is the number of vehicles on the roads and the fatalities associated with it. Compared to USA's number of vehicles on the road, India is vastly lower on the list and yet tops on the list with the highest fatalities.
I think in these statistics one class of Vehicles is missing, 2 Wheelers. No way India has only 74 million Vehicles when you add 2 wheelers in the mix as quoted by Jermy Clarkson.

As per Road accident Stats released in TN. the largest no of accident fatalities are from two wheelers hitting pedestrians.

BTW: Having to suffer daily from the road sense of my fellow citizens, I do not justify the callous attitude of many of them.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Kashi »

I could have sworn this was the India-UK thread.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

What is really really interesting and funny is that - on the Indo-UK thread people do not find time and space and energy to react against Brit criticism or mocking of Indian features - but they react oh so volcanically onlee after similar mockable features of Britland is pointed out. Then the fireworks really start off!

After all - this is both an Indo-UK thread. If we also point out rat infestion and corresponding dangers in Britland - should we not expect to see some raving and ranting on what Brits should do about rats and how ashamed they should be?

The original posts were deliberately posted on this thread - without ever denying that dogs/cows problems are there in Indian cities. But the whole flare-up now is turning the Britland mocking of India into India bashing by Indians -based on the false premise and perhaps deliberate assumption that the existence of the problem was denied for India. What was being pointed out was that Britland has similar problems and they effectively remain silent on it while criticizing and mocking other cultures while slyly tying it up with particular cultures. Its not entirely unexpected fro me - that a whole bunch of Indians who did not flare up on the BBC slyness, would flare up onlee after, onlee after - similar mockable stuff was pointed out for Britland itself - and start the India bashing and self-flagellation.

There are plenty of appropriate threads to bash up and self-flagellate Indian infra-structure, dogs, cows, two-wheelers, four wheelers, pedetsrians and everything so damnably Indian. People can peg themselves on develoipmental agenda and criteria given out by other countries and cultures who do their best to hide their own dirty linen in the department and their own no-so-distant past.

But why this thread?

I was waiting with baited breath for someone, just someone to wonder - as to why roaming cows in public are always seen in documentaries on India - but never, ever, the massive scale of public slaughter of cows in full gory display in the lanes, streets, and public squares in several regions of India - and at least one famous city - on the occasion of a certain Indian community's festivals. Moreover a community whose culture and faith is supposed to be one of the chief shapers of Indian culture and civilization.

My dearest good gentlemen of the India-bashing self-flagellation campaign -who thinks culture has nothing to do with showing freely roaming cows and tagging it with the Hindu - you have never witnessed the slaughter of cows, bulls and the after effects on public sanitation of Indian cities? Why do you never wonder as to why Britistan or BBC never, ever shows that bovine aspect of India in any documentary on India?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Purush wrote: Who said small cell? :-?

We're talking about proper farms here. Outside the city or in the periphery.
Well, a farm is a confined place. I don't think we have the right to force animals to do whatever we please. We are already doing so. Maybe we should control our urge to believe that all resources of this planet belongs to our baap and we have the right to pontificate on what other species should and shouldn't do.
So you'd rather subject a cow to vehicular pollution, noise pollution, vehicular cowslaughter, dangerous garbage which is NOT part of the cow's normal diet, contaminated water, hot asphalt and the risk of getting wounded by ill-thought out infrastructure.
Instead of letting it live peacefully in a controlled grazing environment with clean water, proper food (grass/hay?), seclusion from vehicles and pollution etc?
How about reducing pollution in cities? hain?

First of all, we have the chutzpah to pollute the environment, which affects other species. And then, we enforce more conditions on animals to protect them from its consequences. sahi hai.
If you're so free with ownership of resources for all, do you also allow complete strangers to come into your home and sleep/live there whenever they like.
After all, you already exploit human labor at some level, and ofcourse the planet belongs to them too. I don't know what people mean by "our homes". :P
Ya'Allah...why did you allow the creation of Salman Taseer University of Higher-order lahori Logic.

There is a consensus on the terms and conditions for ownership of property and value of labor among human beings (not animals). We just displaced animals from where they used to live. We expect them to follow rules made by us which are overwhelmingly in our favor.

You could use a course in sound logical reasoning.
And how often do people die because a cow/dog blocked their path? Using low-probability events in arguments is lahori logic.
:roll: :roll: :roll:[/quote]

You have shown first-rate lahori logic because you don't understand these arguments.
Last edited by abhishek_sharma on 15 Jan 2012 22:40, edited 1 time in total.
RajeshA
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by RajeshA »

I long time ago I visited my British girlfriend in Birmingham. We were all running around her house trying to catch a rat! I was told Birmingham is full of them; and Pakis too, which just as bad!
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by chaanakya »

China has no such problem. These are delicacies for them, Pakis too.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Lalmohan »

RajeshA wrote:I long time ago I visited my British girlfriend in Birmingham. We were all running around her house trying to catch a rat! I was told Birmingham is full of them; and Pakis too, which just as bad!
never more than 5m away from a rodent in the british isles
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Lalmohan »

Virupaksha wrote:Harbans,
Second parts true and both shown by my statistic clearly.

and tomorrow I will write an article of how antarctica has the LOWEST in road deaths and thus must strive to be more like antarctica. or say parts of Sahara desert where there are no roads.
lalmohan, India will cross the bridge when it comes to it or even decide it can take an different bridge.

i should have actually said RTA deaths/accident is low (due to low speeds) - whereas gross numbers of accidents/km driven is high
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by JwalaMukhi »

not so recently, humans were a joke in terms of sustained mobility and they depended on the bovines to be the prime transport vehicles to get to places. how times change, now these bovine species are mobile traffic road blocks.
Well humans individuals have now modernized and have no use for these old timers and is ready to dump them and confine them into restrictive but glorious and glamorous farmlands etc, so they do not break up the parties of the individuals.
Similarly, the same individuals have now no necessities for their older parents, who need to be confined into glamorous "vridha ashramas", lest they break up their fragile party ways. One small problem though, the current individuals will also one day reach those vridha ashramas, all in the interest of preserving the parties of the younger generation.

But hope those milk making machines, just like those coke machines, do not run out soon to yield milk for the individuals. Keep the bovines and confine them into nicely sliced,diced,packaged in refrigerated neatly made containers just as they do in queendom. Those bovines in their confined refrigerated places would neither be a traffic hazard nor an ungainly sight. The individuals can proudly walk beside those refrigerated cages and pontificate how pathetic the third worlders allow the cattle into roads.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by rgsrini »

charlie wrote: infrastructure which includes Cows (moving speed breakers)
Reminds me of a conversation I had with an American lady who was sitting next to me in the flight. Apparently, she had visited New Delhi a few years ago and she was very happy that India is growing finally. After a few "good for India" type comments, she said "I was shocked to see cows in the middle of highways. Why don't the government do something about it".

I replied smilingly, "Exactly! Just like the deers running around in the roads in America, there are cows in India. It is such a shame that so many deers get killed on American roads everyday. Atleast in India, people seem to avoid the cows as they respect animals. But you are absolutely right! Both the governments must find a way to prevent this"

She was not prepared for that equal-equal and was in quite a bit of discomfort trying to come up with a response. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Last edited by rgsrini on 16 Jan 2012 03:10, edited 1 time in total.
brihaspati
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

It was an UK university attached department which failed to prevent leaks of data and communication showing that perhaps, just perhaps data were obfuscated to claim that global climate was indeed being affected adversely by civilizational emissions.

However, even if that data was dubious but the results have to accepted anyway - that climate change is being adversely affected by "greenhouse gases" : we must consider, that cows are one of the bigger - human civilization coonected producers of methane - a gas many many times more effective than CO2 in trapping heat.

Shouldn't the cows - be banned altogether - as mark of human civilization and progress? Both India and UK seem to be in no hurry to prevent imminent demise of all human civilization!
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by vishvak »

JwalaMukhi wrote:But hope those milk making machines, just like those coke machines, do not run out soon to yield milk for the individuals. Keep the bovines and confine them into nicely sliced,diced,packaged in refrigerated neatly made containers just as they do in queendom. Those bovines in their confined refrigerated places would neither be a traffic hazard nor an ungainly sight. The individuals can proudly walk beside those refrigerated cages and pontificate how pathetic the third worlders allow the cattle into roads.
But saar, in first world countries there are no 'Gaushaalaa' or 'paanjraapola'. Have you heard any such suggestions from where only good cow is the one going to the nearest butcher shop?

So the idea is not only that 'Gaushaalaa' or 'paanjraapola' is so third world, but also alongwith it cows on the road is also improper. The correct idea therefore clearly is that 'I do not want to oppose and passively support stealing cows for the meat and leather, and otherwise stand upto anyone opposing this as third world', aka Bajrang Dal types. Have you ever read such reports for Bajrang Dal:
From link
Bajarang Dal activists were successful in rescuing 550 animals
Doing == for cows in India & deer in USA could lead to deer-hatya (because it is deer in first world and hatya as Hindu concept), never know how people understand ==.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

I still find no concern for the rat infestations in UK? This is an Indo-UK thread - shouldn't there be some good neighbourly feelings and concern for the other from our side? Some advice on how the problem should be tackled in UK? No surprise that BBC does not appear to make self-deprecating documentaries with a good deal of British slapstick humour on sundry peculiarities like rat and mice infestations, feral foxes, or homeless kids on streets subject to trafficking or sexual exploitation and violence. But we can still show our concern and suggest ways out?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by rgsrini »

BrihaspatiJi,
Blame it on the education system sir... How many children are taught that UK and the rest of the Europe was filled with the worst human beings ever lived on the earth. The UK (and the rest of Europe) amassed its wealth by indulging in piracy (of spanish ships), slave trade(from Africa), indentured labors (from England and Europe to colonies), genocide (in colonies), denial of religious rights and conversion (colonies) and bankrupting countries by stealing its revenue and natural resources (gold, silver) etc. I am not talking about the holocaust as we are just focussing on UK here.

Who reads about this in our schools. Our kids come out of our schools thinking that we are SDREs, and the developed world is showing the light for the rest of the world. It is not uncommon for us to hear fellow Indians thanking the colonial masters for the railway line and "christian" schools. It is also not uncommon to hear that it would be better to continue to live under the British rule instead of the current day politicians.

No wonder there is such a huge mental threshold to cross, for SDRE Indians to talk about rat infestation in the UK.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Neela »

B-ji,

Thanks for bringing this thread back to track.
I did mention in my post that we do not need TG to tell us our problems.
My point was jokes are culturally sensitive and I felt TG , which isn't funny at all, was habitually exploiting this for gain .
I think it was only a logical follow through that led us to your last post.
--------

Speaking of your last post and the kids - Britain is facing a serious shortage of foster homes. The problem is many-fold.
CHild care homes are facing budget cuts. More kids need foster homes. Lesser families are coming forward. Kids in foster homes complain of exploitation. And child care inspectors have too much to do due to man power shortage. They cannot hire more due to budget cuts. Some of the problems explained here: http://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles ... tlight.htm

[ This-happens-in-India-too-and-it-is-worse guys - please spare this thread your righteous crap ]
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Philip »

Neela,all is forgiven.You may indeed throw rotten eggs,tomatoes and soft veggies at me when you think I deserve it. I shall bat hopefully better than our one-day wonders in Oz!

We had a go at Britain not too long ago ,when its hooded looters took over parts of London.I had a dig at the situ with a satirical piece invoking Churchill's famous word ,"fight them on the beaches,etc.",but was lambasted by my own relatives and Indian pals in Blighty whose stiff upper lips told me that my views were exaggerated.It isn't that there are parts of Britain which aren't clean,or decrepit,inner-city deprivation which Prince Charles has been trying to rectify with his community trust,but it possesses a better system of the rule of law and justice.Not perfect,but when compared with our judicial system,is more impartial and delivers justice faster.There are cases like the Stephen Lawrence case,which took several years before the verdict (guilty) was recently delivered ,which showed up institutional racism within the police,but the chances of getting a fair trial in Britain when compared with India ,let's say with no disrespect to our judiciary,depends a lot upon our police filing a proper FIR and the long queue waiting to "see the judge in his chambers".

In the main,the Q must be asked,how much of the taxpayer's money actually ends up where it is supposed to go and how much in the pockets of the politicos and their babus and cronies? Where does India rank for example on the transparency international lists for corruption,etc.How do we compare with developed nations like the UK and our own neighbours? As far as traffic,accidents.and road manners are concerned,I think we must be way at the bottom.Perhaps the only Indian city with decent traffic,wide roads,etc., is Chandigarh (not its new outlying developments),which was designed by a Frenchman.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

Philip ji,
by "transparency" lists you mean those maintained or given by the likes of TI and its countrywide branches? Are you claiming that corruption in UK can be or is reflected by those lists? Depends of course as to what is meant by corruption.

A parallel European example would be say the Bofors supposed kickbacks - money circulating within the European banking system, paid for "legitimate" business solicitation, by legitimate European firms, into accounts still within European banking system - perhaps therefore legitimate entirely. But is it "transparent"? Is it "uncorrupt"? Are you sure we should go into this specifically for the UK?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Hari Seldon »

Shitain's family system (as in much of the TFTA emerged world) is breaking down. The family - that one unit which across millenia has remained the bedrock of collective security and fealty is shattering. What it means for emerging TFTA generations of rootless pavlovianly hedonistic people remains to be seen. Especially given that the debt repayment burden in the aggregate on the same TFTA shoulders is higher than at any point in peacetime. Why would the youngistani Briturds wanna subsidize the pensions and retirements of older Briturds when they owe nothing really to the establishment, now? Interesting to see how this dynamic plays out., My prediction is entire sections and classes of people will inevitably get thrown under the bus. Poverty, the real and nasty kind, will revisit Shitain sooner rather than later should things get unglued enough. We'll see. Meanwhile, am happy unkil is doing well economically and is well and truly on the path to recovery. Unkil doing well is essential to Yindia's prosperity and progress. Gleat shitstain, not so much.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Charlie »

rgsrini wrote:
charlie wrote: infrastructure which includes Cows (moving speed breakers)
Reminds me of a conversation I had with an American lady who was sitting next to me in the flight. Apparently, she had visited New Delhi a few years ago and she was very happy that India is growing finally. After a few "good for India" type comments, she said "I was shocked to see cows in the middle of highways. Why don't the government do something about it".

I replied smilingly, "Exactly! Just like the deers running around in the roads in America, there are cows in India. It is such a shame that so many deers get killed on American roads everyday. Atleast in India, people seem to avoid the cows as they respect animals. But you are absolutely right! Both the governments must find a way to prevent this"

She was not prepared for that equal-equal and was in quite a bit of discomfort trying to come up with a response. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I had the misfortune of hitting a deer and getting my car totaled a few years ago. Most of the deer accidents occur during the season between October and January.


Coming back to this Bovine/Deer thing... my point is that bovines on roads is not a conscious decision out of philosophical and religious considerations. It is inability of us Indians to plan and implement things so that life is more efficient. This same slack attitude lets in Kasabs into India and massacre us like we are practice meat for a budding Kasai. There is a temple in Rajasthan where there are 1000's of rats fed by the locals. Now this is a religious preference that needs to be respected.

I have heard so many first hand/second hand instances of MNC Manufaturing firms wanting to come to India but avoiding it because they cannot ship goods with reasonable accuracy of time. Many of you might have seen what manufacturing base has done to China with rising per capita income and very low poverty levels. Everytime I go to a grocery store all I see is its full of Made in China stuff except for perishables. It pains a lot when they could have been so easily made in India. I come from a rural part of India where even Agri is not good. So from where do people earn their livelihood? There is so much poverty even in 2012.

When you sit back and take a look at the bigger picture..there is 7 billion population in the world with limited resources. Majority of them are living a comfortable life because 90% Indians live a life of extreme poverty and thus not demanding goods and resources. At some point of time we have to up our game and start living like human beings. With our limited resources and massive poverty we need a super efficient system with out wastage this includes western style roads and also roads with out "stray dogs and bovines" which is a small piece in a massive puzzle.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by abhishek_sharma »

This is an interesting strategy. Write a long post on poverty and then add a line stating that stray animals are a "small piece" in a massive puzzle.

Let us hope that "larger pieces" of this puzzle will get more time and attention from these gentlemen. Don't hold your breath for it.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

Charlie ji,
^^^^Maybe those 10% are not living like human beings? They are overborrowing natural resources at an unsustainable rate? Maybe they - including those you point to as living like "proper" human beings including the creamy layer in countries like UKstan - are gluttons and babies?

Indians lived before UKstanis delivered their civilizational outpourings, and according to most records, much more prosperously than UKstanis of the same period. Now, if you think carefully, surely those Indians then did not have the benefits of concrete, asphalt - animal and tree sanitized aseptic urban sprawls, no fast cars and plenty of cows, bullocks, dogs, horses with some of these animals being chief means of assisted transport. So they must have been poorer then as of now, and must have been way below "human-ness" by current supposed UKstani humanity standards? Or at best the living environment and standards of Indians have not changed much.

Is it possible for you to consider the possibility - that Indians having seen "civilization" for a longer time than UKstanis, decided on a slower pace of life and a more sustainable lifestyle where they were not dazzled by other Indians dazzled in turn by UKstani spin on models of urban civilization and what ideal humanity should mean?

I have been to a village in GV where people do not kill the snakes who slither like pets in close proximity to humans. Or villages which have a non-war like relationship with hordes of monkeys. I have grown up seeing village after village have their own covered latrine and waste disposal, water purification, their own indigenous water cooler, air cooler, heated bed, indigenous soap and herb shampoo, indigenous antibacterial mouthwash and toothpaste, and natural birth control of dogs and management of cows and bulls. Indians have harvested water, planned cities and urban waste disposal [which in various ways continued in certain parts where people were left by oversight or resistance to the Islamics or the Brits - with enough economic resources to maintain the traditional skills], controlled epidemics and managed wild animals.

Since they sustained it for such a long period, with a minimum of high-energy consumption polluting lifestyle promoted by say - UKstani examples - is it not time to turn with greater respect towards that Indian experience and see whether there are things to be learnt from there? The Brits always learnt to be arrogant and extremely rude or sarcastic and derogatory towards other cultures - even under the cover of so-called politeness. Is it that difficult not to shadow the same derogatory and dismissive tone - and rather explore the long term possibilities of an alternative sustainable lifestyle in the so-called "poverty" as per UKstani values? The UKstani humanity ideal has proved and is proving to be a short-term over-burner. Why stick to that as standard for dear life?
shiv
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shiv »

Charlie wrote:
I had the misfortune of hitting a deer and getting my car totaled a few years ago. Most of the deer accidents occur during the season between October and January.

Coming back to this Bovine/Deer thing... my point is that bovines on roads is not a conscious decision out of philosophical and religious considerations. It is inability of us Indians to plan and implement things so that life is more efficient. This same slack attitude lets in Kasabs into India
Good one.

It is inefficient to have a deer on a road. It is efficient to have them somewhere else. What were your eyes and wits doing on that road when you hit the deer? You hit the deer right? Why did you hit the deer? Or did the deer come and hit you?

Your personal misfortune gets prominent mention. How come you are talking as if there was no fault of yours here? Balls to the deer. Did you seek medical attention for the deer? Were there no nearby animal hospitals? I am so sorry to hear that your car was totaled by the inefficiency of a system that allowed a deer on a road. Was the system so inefficient that there were no signs that the deer could have read? Heaven forbid.

Perhaps signs could have been put up to stop Kasab? These are absolutely pathetic arguments you are making, mixing up your personal misery with lack of efficiency and connecting it to Kasab.

Your point about bovines on roads is your assumption with no insight. Bovines on roads is a perfectly conscious cultural decision in India. Not religious. The cars came after the bovines. The cars have to adjust to the bovines. You think that is "inefficient"? There are others who feel differently. What makes your view more right than others. It's just an individual selfish viewpoint. Others have their selfish viewpoints.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Yogi_G »

Mods, please forgive me, but posting it in here since it is in context of recent discussions.

I am planning to make a spoof of top gear here in Chennai bringing in the typical stereotypes of Britards/associated low lives and other stuff with special focus on Clarkson. The info on the rats, general filth of UK and other info in this thread has helped a lot, and I am planning a plot on these lines. It will be an amateur video onlee maybe for half an hour or so. Anyone interested please email india_forever at the rate of inbox daat caam.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Victor »

A wild deer running across a road in the Michigan is comparable to a rhino crossing the road in Assam--they are quite common, both cause accidents but have to be accepted because we haven't found the right balance in either country. On the other hand, domesticated animals populating main highways and railways is only found in India. There's a big difference and we ignore it at our peril.

Inefficient and dangerous roads hurt mainly the poor, the very people who let those cows and goats loose on the highways. It is not city people who don't get kerosene oil, rice and salt quickly enough, it is the people in the villages who get fleeced on simple things like this precisely because it takes an expedition to get these things to their doorstep. It is not the people in cars or buses that die, it is the ones on bicycles, scooters, thelas and rikshaws. The social divide between remote villages and urban centers is a major reason for poverty in India--it is simply too difficult and dangerous in India even in the 21st century for people in the villages to interact with the metros. We need safe, fast traffic systems to grow economically and socially and the question is how to make this happen. Making silly excuses will only prolong this injustice just as they have done for decades.

Sorry for another ot.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Charlie »

OT but here it is. Youtube or Another

Thats Youtube videos of how a deer hit happens. In those videos they were atleast driving during the day time. I was driving at night around 1 AM on an interstate at 70MPH. So no way you can do anything to salvage the situation because you have less than a second to react. And in less than a second you cannot change the direction and speed of the car. In my accident the deer was torn asunder with one half on my wind shield and the other half under the tire. No one can do anything about this. It happens a lot on highways. And yes the authorities do everything that can be done short of mass killings. They do scientific studies about the deer population and their growth rate. And during the season enough recreational hunting permits are granted to citizens who hunt them for meat, head and skin etc. Also there are road signs indicating deer prone areas.

But the major distinction here is America has lots of forest cover every where and they also have excellent road connectivity through them so that they can connect cities with each other. In places like these away from cities deer hits happen during the season when their population is high and they are moving across. It is different from what we are discussing, that of bovine presence on city roads among major population centers.

Edited Later: As Victor above said. The major difference is Domesticated vs Wild. This is what happens on Bangalore roads.(Youtube).
Most of these cows that are left to roam are done so because the herder feels its cost effective to let the cattle forage rather than buy cattle feed(May be out of poverty).
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shiv »

Charlie wrote: No one can do anything about this. It happens a lot on highways. And yes the authorities do everything that can be done short of mass killings. They do scientific studies about the deer population and their growth rate. And during the season enough recreational hunting permits are granted to citizens who hunt them for meat, head and skin etc. Also there are road signs indicating deer prone areas.
Nonsense. You build a highway through a forest and allow cars to run though at 70 mph and then you say nothing can be done about it. It's just your apologetic attitude to what sounds profoundly stupid to me just as cows on the road sound profoundly stupid to you. Why can't you accept my excuses that are as stupid as yours? I'll answer that. You think your view is morally right. That's all.

And this is the Indo-UK thread where you bring up whines about India because of an accident you had in the US where they have their own stupid excuses for such accidents. Your intent is more to have a whine about India than anything else - seeing how you bring in inane excuses and apologies and the Kasab straw man in the middle of all that. I am amazed at the grievances you are regurgitating. You have one huge chip on the shoulder.

You hit a deer on a highway at 70 mph in the US so cows on Indian roads are bad, and that is how Kasab got in. I love it.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shiv »

Ok let me return the favor. I am sure you will enjoy this video of a deer's head getting shot in America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxGBrtcqLo4
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by chaanakya »

Victor wrote:A wild deer running across a road in the Michigan is comparable to a rhino crossing the road in Assam--they are quite common, both cause accidents but have to be accepted because we haven't found the right balance in either country. On the other hand, domesticated animals populating main highways and railways is only found in India. There's a big difference and we ignore it at our peril. .
yeah Cows are Common too in India and you have to accept it.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by uddu »

It's not just Pakistan that's promoting piracy. Here comes londonistan. All easy money.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo ... 6244865278
THE British government has secretly approved the payment of millions of dollars in ransom money to Somali pirates despite stating publicly that it opposes such deals.

Dozens of payments -- most for hijacked ships -- have been sent from banks in London through British airports to pirate gangs on the Somali coast, a leading insurance industry expert has revealed.

Each payment is individually signed off by a unit within Whitehall, contradicting the claims by ministers including Foreign Secretary William Hague that Britain does not support or "facilitate" such payoffs because that would encourage piracy. :rotfl: {we Paki cousins onlee, we talk pious act devil}

There are fears some ransom payments approved by the government are financing Islamist terror groups in the Horn of Africa and that the government's use of the Royal Navy to combat piracy stands in stark contrast to its quiet support for the payments.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Klaus »

Yogi_G, please devote 3-5 minutes on the Black Death and its impact on European psyche, the development of Protestant branch and Renaissance + Reformation.

We need an Indian gaze on this, i.e Purva-Paksha on the old continent.
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