Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

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Neela
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Neela »

Did you see the Argentinian ad ?




In Argentina itself, there is a palpable sense of mild unrest. It has been part of political speeches again.
It aint over yet. And it will get very very costly for Britain.
KLNMurthy
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by KLNMurthy »

shyamd wrote:You think there is going to be a conflict over Falklands? You actually think Argentina possess the capability to recover Falklands?

Which foreign investments are you referring to?
At least India should keep communication open with the Argentines to let them know the investment is not an endorsement of Brit occupation. Malvinas are Argentina's Goa and its time will come.
kish
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by kish »

Britania has attracted all kinds of dubious characters into its territory during the past decades (esp from pakistan, china, etc).

Puke alert

Briton held with roasted human foetuses
Followers of black magic believe the unborn babies -- covered in gold leaf -- bring fortune
They have a problem with skilled migrants from India, Yeah right.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shyamd »

26/11 was a trap period. There are other ways to fight and you have to choose carefully from a list of options. We today have an unprecedented opportunity to develop our economy and improve the lives of millions. Or if you fight that war and divert the jihadi's back to J&K. More lives lost, less money for infrastructure, growth/businesses reduce and of course you don't control how the war ends. Bangalore blasts cost just Rs50k. Just to give you some perspective. 26/11, even cheaper to execute. And of course pak would continue to get a lease of life due to nationalism.

And as you correctly pointed out, it would have been easy to go to war against pak especially with a general election looming - build up nationalism as we saw across the country during Kargil. And you talk about trade and prosperity, well we all know about corruption in defence contracts which would have been signed for emergency supplies, stocks, new systems etc etc, need I forget coffin scams. Politicians and officials would have raked in tonnes of money. You forget that the beneficiary of the growth is the people.

War in general is a waste of resources. Britons war with Argentina was pretty limited and had no threat to the mainland - cost them $2billion at most. at the same time why is the US pulling out of afpak and Iraq because protracted wars are unsustainable, short wars perhaps make sense but that is assuming you control the end.

Saddam fought his war (Iran) with the assumption he would be "dragging the imam by the beard through the streets within months". That one lasted 8 years and in the end it was saddam who was telling King of KSA that it was a dumb move after about 3 years.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by RamaY »

^ isn't it a fact that Indian economy is crumbling for the past 5 years irrespective of the calibrated strategy vis.a.vis 11/26?

Why didn't INC go for a war and stoke the nationalism and win a majority on its own? Why did INC choose an option that is detrimental to its political fortunes?

If INC did this knowing that the first and foremost focus of India is economic progress then why it is faltering in economic sector, mainly due to its policies and administrative failures and not much for the international economic environment?

Is it really true that NDA won only due to Kargil adventure and thus stoking the nationalistic feelings?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by KLNMurthy »

shyamd wrote:26/11 was a trap period. There are other ways to fight

...


War in general is a waste of resources. Britons war with Argentina was pretty limited and had no threat to the mainland - cost them $2billion at most. at the same time why is the US pulling out of afpak and Iraq because protracted wars are unsustainable, short wars perhaps make sense but that is assuming you control the end.

Saddam fought his war (Iran) with the assumption he would be "dragging the imam by the beard through the streets within months". That one lasted 8 years and in the end it was saddam who was telling King of KSA that it was a dumb move after about 3 years.
Having said there are other ways to fight, you then debate a strawman by bringing in the foolishness of a shooting war, corruption etc. We can continue to grow our economy while waging a calibrated cold war against TSP and we are being subjected to endless verbal flimflammery to cover up the fact that the Indian establishment is harming India by not pursuing this option seriously.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shyamd »

7% growth is called crumbling these days?

Thanks for asking the question. Because it was a trap, an obvious one if I might add and economy would be extremely bad today. Current situation can hardly be called extremely bad. Politically it would have been a good chance for INC.

Failure to make Reforms when they had the chance is the main problem today. But they have no choice but to do those reforms such as petrol, diesel hikes to save money. Funny thing was, when they were increasing prices for fuel opposition was going to town that it is INC fault for having high prices and look at the poor who can't afford it etc.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shyamd »

KLNMurthy ji, What would have been your objective for the war, weigh out costs and the benefits.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by RamaY »

shyamd wrote:7% growth is called crumbling these days?
I will leave it to you to figure out based on the news coming out of Desh. 7% growth rate might seem healthy to you if the base line is Nehru Rate of Growth (NRG - 5.5%) but the additional 1.5% growth is negated if you take inflation and creaming of INC system into consideration.

On the trade is good for life mindset - i will give an example. When YS Rajashekar Reddy was CM of Andhra Pradesh, he channeled corruption money thru inflated stock purchases by some industrialists in his son's business ventures. If the corruption money is 1000 crores, the said businessman would buy 10 crore worth of (face value) shares in some EdoOkati publications of YSR's son for 1000 crore at a premium of 990 crores. Hope you get the picture. Now that the equation between 2G and YSR's son is spoiled they are going after not only YSR's son but also the industrialists.

If you replace Sonia Gandhi with USA/GCC lobby, YSR's lobby with 2G lobby and the andhra-industrialists with Indian Interests, you will get the picture.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

RamaY garu,
I am sure all this trade surplus, foreign investments, are getting distributed around - and not swelling the personal overseas accounts of the shrill shouters of trade-is-supreme lobby. Profits are social onlee.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shyamd »

Lol another gem to keep - the 1.5% is just creamed from inflation! Lol! Do you understand GDP growth rates and the numbers reported are after inflation? And are you saying that when the Nehru rate of 5.5% was taking place there was no corruption and black money? LOL!

Oh B ji, are you saying that poverty reductions in the last 10 years or so are false figures? Are you saying that unemployment is in various parts of India is still the same and the Indian economy has been relatively stagnant? LOL!
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by svinayak »

shyamd wrote:
And as you correctly pointed out, it would have been easy to go to war against pak especially with a general election looming - build up nationalism as we saw across the country during Kargil. And you talk about trade and prosperity, well we all know about corruption in defence contracts which would have been signed for emergency supplies, stocks, new systems etc etc, need I forget coffin scams. Politicians and officials would have raked in tonnes of money. You forget that the beneficiary of the growth is the people.
This is a politician talk. Your facts and information are not correct. Only politicians bring this points when they have a gravy train to loose when faced with war.
Kargil was an important war and a marker for Indian state and its global relations.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

shyamd wrote:Lol another gem to keep - the 1.5% is just creamed from inflation! Lol! Do you understand GDP growth rates and the numbers reported are after inflation? And are you saying that when the Nehru rate of 5.5% was taking place there was no corruption and black money? LOL!

Oh B ji, are you saying that poverty reductions in the last 10 years or so are false figures? Are you saying that unemployment is in various parts of India is still the same and the Indian economy has been relatively stagnant? LOL!
Who says Indian economy is stagnant!!! A Rajas are a-growing!
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by RamaY »

shyamd wrote:Lol another gem to keep - the 1.5% is just creamed from inflation! Lol! Do you understand GDP growth rates and the numbers reported are after inflation? And are you saying that when the Nehru rate of 5.5% was taking place there was no corruption and black money? LOL!

Oh B ji, are you saying that poverty reductions in the last 10 years or so are false figures? Are you saying that unemployment is in various parts of India is still the same and the Indian economy has been relatively stagnant? LOL!
Yes we can 'grow' anything under this pundi-tree.

I dont know whether to laugh or cry at this 'trolling'. The BPL used to be $ a day, then it was made $2 by the same NGOs that we make gods out of. But at the same time, we can make BPL at Rs. 35 per day while the $ conversion rate is Rs. 50+ inspite of all these MMS-flations.

What can I say when someone brushes aside the corruption levels crossing $50b per scam saying they are nothing. $50b is 2.5% of GDP in a $2T economy.

What next sir?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shyamd »

Pay a visit to the Indian economy thread and read the experience of people as they travel to various parts of the country. In the state I live in in the last 2 years, we have had such a massive shortage, we have people from Orissa, WB, Bihar all over working in kitchens, factories and even in rural areas. Since the economy hasnt changed in location where you live, please do send any unemployed to TN, seriously!

ANother example of you twisting what I said into "brushing aside" corruption. I said that inflation is already taken into account in GDP growth figures (incidentally they teach you this as a basic in economics class!) and I pointed out that corruption was still happening in a big way even when we were growing in "nehru rate of growth" - that is hardly "brushing aside" corruption.

Lol! I guess people can read and see how you like to twist what peoples say.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^Chill pill, shyamd.:)

Its no secret that govts routinely under-report inflation coz cost of living indices etc are indexed to the same. India's inflation metrics, more suspect than the norm, are IMO particularly egregious now.

Anyway, good luck to you if you in fact wanna defend GoI's recent econ record. 7% is good but is relative to starting ponts, potential and trend projections of the recent past. No? No point saying "Congrats you're now a millionaire!" to an ex-multi-millionaire.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shyamd »

Oh I am in no way defending their econ track record but I am just saying its unfair to call it "crumbling" or dire straits as if the economy has been stagnant of some sort and the only people who made money were politicians, which I am sure you know is not true.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

OT for this thread: but please to look at "Poverty Alleviation and Pro-Poor Growth in India" by
Kaushik Ranjan Bandyopadhyay © Asian Institute of Transport Development, New Delhi , First published 2007. He seems to produce tables and figures showing increase in inequality post-reform + those regions which were already on a growth path pre-reform, usually managed to maintain the trend, whereas those which were barely above the water have sunk a bit post reform.

Mocking based on convenient snapshot of "awareness" of economics is risky. This debate is based on lively and acrid debate on definitions and terms. Poverty is after all a matter of definition, isnt it?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by johneeG »

I have a doubt: Is city of London sovereign or part of UK?
On a similar note: Is district of Columbia part of US or sovereign?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Aditya_V »

shyamd wrote:Oh I am in no way defending their econ track record but I am just saying its unfair to call it "crumbling" or dire straits as if the economy has been stagnant of some sort and the only people who made money were politicians, which I am sure you know is not true.
Shyam D since you are talking off a state where I live are you aware what is the state of Industry in this state for last 1 year, are you aware that Small and Medium scale Industries have been struggling and there lots of Job losses from Madurai to Chennai especially due to the High Interest rate regime plus the behavious of IT, Excise, Customs and Service tax harrassement which has made manfactuiring really tough.

The Central policies of UPA with respect to wholesale loot of the tresury through various scams and then mismangement accross have meant today India is doing much worse than it should do.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by abhischekcc »

MMS government has a long standing policy of destroying MSMEs. First they de-reserved all sectors reserved for MSMEs (although this policy started under NDA, they implemented it slowly). However, the MSMEs would have been able to compete against the big guys, had it not been another policy that MMS's government implemented - they hiked the interest rates for MSMEs and lowered it for big firms in the recently dereserved sectors, ensuring that the smaller players would go out of business.

Entire sectors were wiped out like this.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by ArmenT »

johneeG wrote:I have a doubt: Is city of London sovereign or part of UK?
On a similar note: Is district of Columbia part of US or sovereign?
City of London is officially a ceremonial county in the UK. I presume your question is based on the fact that City of London has some different laws and different voting procedures than the rest of the UK. Incidentally, for those who are not aware of it, City of London is a small area of approx. 1 sq. mile which is within the London metropolitan area. Historically, it was the area of the city that was built by the Romans. When one says London, one is generally referring to the greater London metropolitan area, but when they say specifically City of London, it means the little 1 sq. mile area in the center of the city. The City of London has always been granted some special laws since Anglo-Saxon times.

Similarly, residents of the DC area in the US also have some special voting restrictions -- they can vote for the president, but can't vote for any senators to represent them. The House of Representatives delegate from DC also has less voting rights than delegates from other states.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Murugan »

I love these:

Letting us sack staff we don't like will be good for the economy, bosses tell Downing Street
This morning the 24-page report was published online by the Telegraph, four days before it was due to be released following Freedom of Information demands.

The sacking call caused a huge row, partly because the phrase “price worth paying” is an echo of former Tory chancellor Norman Lamont’s claim that high unemployment was worthwhile.

Labour denounced the idea today. In a speech in London, party leader Ed Miliband said: “The countries that succeed in having a higher-skilled, higher-paid workforce are those where employers and employees show commitment to each other.

“This is the opposite to what this Government wants to do — now considering a proposal from the Beecroft Report to make this short-term culture worse by allowing employees to be fired at will.

“We need an economy based on long-termism, investment, and training. Not the short-term, fast buck, take-what-you-can culture that caused the financial crisis in the first place.”

Other plans in the Beecroft report include stopping parents from requesting additional leave until at least 2017. It also urges easier redundancy rules, and capping unfair dismissal payouts, plus a relaxation of laws to allow small firms to opt out of seven different employment laws, including providing pensions.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/poli ... 70808.html


Ministers dragging feet over key growth recommendations in Beecroft report
The report recommends that parents should not be able to take flexible leave from work until Britain’s economy and public finances have recovered in 2017.

It also urges a relaxation of British laws to allow small firms to opt out of seven different employment laws and to reduce the “gold plating” of European directives by the civil service.

The measures would save business hundreds of millions of pounds and allow them to “grow and employ more people” as Britain struggles to recover from a double-dip recession.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... eport.html
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

^^^How about the right to sack the parliamentarians at will by the people? After all the MPS's are public servants - although in UK bosses have an escape route. The MP's are HMS. Technically the people are not sovereign in UK. So the Brits can onlee win their legalistic societal structure's ultimate freedom and empowerment by sacking the monarchy - thats when they technically become sovereign, and can sack the legislators, judges and all the coercive wings used to suck them periodically dry for fattening and slaughter.
Last edited by brihaspati on 22 May 2012 23:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

In almost every country - the ruling elite now have become the internationally connected obnoxious and parasitically sadist exploiter. May they all face Qaddafication. I will be ready to even become a believer in return. It galls to see the infinite arrogance and the sheer criminality of the super rich - by birth-privileges or the state-linked nexus.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by shyamd »

Aditya_V wrote: Shyam D since you are talking off a state where I live are you aware what is the state of Industry in this state for last 1 year, are you aware that Small and Medium scale Industries have been struggling and there lots of Job losses from Madurai to Chennai especially due to the High Interest rate regime plus the behavious of IT, Excise, Customs and Service tax harrassement which has made manfactuiring really tough.

The Central policies of UPA with respect to wholesale loot of the tresury through various scams and then mismangement accross have meant today India is doing much worse than it should do.
Which sector?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Aditya_V »

shyamd wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: Shyam D since you are talking off a state where I live are you aware what is the state of Industry in this state for last 1 year, are you aware that Small and Medium scale Industries have been struggling and there lots of Job losses from Madurai to Chennai especially due to the High Interest rate regime plus the behavious of IT, Excise, Customs and Service tax harrassement which has made manfactuiring really tough.

The Central policies of UPA with respect to wholesale loot of the tresury through various scams and then mismangement accross have meant today India is doing much worse than it should do.
Which sector?
Manufacturing- except the HYundai and a few MNC's rest are all down. I work in accounts/ finance and had to face the harrassement from Excise/ Customs IT, oral demands to meet targets etc.of an org which also tanked, I changed jobs, my replacement in the previous job fired by anther company, 150 workers in my company were sent on VRS, 7000 employees in Mudurai alone have been fired.

I understand especially amoung NRI's UPA govt is very popular, but belive on the ground except for IT, export oriented industires things are not very bright.

ONe of these Central Govt Authority had the Gall to tell me , that under NDA Govt, things like Timings etc. were checked, under UPA they given flexibilty and how it is good for them.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Murugan »

brihaspati wrote:In almost every country - the ruling elite now have become the internationally connected obnoxious and parasitically sadist exploiter. May they all face Qaddafication. I will be ready to even become a believer in return. It galls to see the infinite arrogance and the sheer criminality of the super rich - by birth-privileges or the state-linked nexus.
brihaspati guru : )
absolutely + 1
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

"t galls to see the infinite arrogance and the sheer criminality of the super rich - by birth-privileges or the state-linked nexus."

And notice how the foreign media, and the British in particular, say very little if anything about the excesses and extravagances of the Indian super-rich. With their imported cars, watches, clothes etc. Where is the criticism here, that the money they have could be 'put to better use'? But let India test an Agni missile, launch a satellite or conduct a nuclear test, then all of a sudden the heartfelt concern about the Indian poor comes crawling out of the woodwork.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Kanishka »

India appeal against Duckworth-Lewis
CRICKET NEWS: THERE COULD be no more symbolic example of India’s challenge to surpass England in every aspect of cricket’s world order. Now they are even seeking to overturn the Duckworth-Lewis method, the Lancastrian system of determining the result of matches in which rain stops play.
But at the meeting of the ICC’s cricket committee which starts today at Lord’s an alternative, the VJD system, will be considered for the first time. It has been named after its creator, V Jayadevan, an Indian engineer from Kerala.

“This is the best chance for my system because after a long time the ICC is going to review the D/L method,” he told India’s Mail Today. “Although I won’t be present at the meeting . . . I’ve clearly pointed out the mathematical and statistical flaws in D/L method and the superiority of the VJD system in the same circumstances of a match.”
“If the members read it, half the job is done,” he added. “The inherent fear of people for mathematics seems to have helped D/L method being questioned beyond a limit. The D/L system comprises several silly mistakes. But somehow it has managed to create an impression that it’s highly scientific. A majority of cricketers and officials are looking for a change and hence it makes sense to give an opportunity to the VJD system at least for the next two years.”
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by KLNMurthy »

shyamd wrote:KLNMurthy ji, What would have been your objective for the war, weigh out costs and the benefits.
shyamd garu, I am proposing a kind of calibrated cold war, whose objective would be to degrade pakis' self-belief and make them openly abandon the mindset of puki superiority and entitlement vis-a-vis yindoos. This would be a long-term, largely peaceful but nevertheless hostile endeavor on India's part. Costs and benefits would vary as would corresponding level of aggression, but there would be no change in basic hostile posture until objective is achieved--TSP repudiating itself a la nazi germany.

When you ask me to elaborate on "war objectives" after I posted objecting to your characterization of India's choices as being between acquiescence to paki aggression and a shooting war, I find myself perturbed: your question seems to illustrate my problem with how a strawman of (hot) war mongering is sought to be created to distort the debate.

Now, will you be good enough to comment on my middle-way approach without bringing in hot war which I have not proposed?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by KLNMurthy »

shyamd wrote:You think there is going to be a conflict over Falklands? You actually think Argentina possess the capability to recover Falklands?

Which foreign investments are you referring to?
Maybe Argentina doesn't have the ability to militarily take over Malvinas, but I can see yeevil yindoo banias shifting malvinas to corporate ownership with argentinian sponsored liberation movement providing color revolution yeevil yindoo style. Gora regimes do this all the time in africa and elsewhere, no?

Or is this scenario one of those things that will invite retaliation and hurt growth and is therefore taboo for yindoos?
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Prem »

http://gawker.com/5914459/vladimir-puti ... n-olympics
Vladimir Putin, One of the World’s Greatest Shirtless Athletes, Will Boycott the London Olympics
The Guardian reports that Russian President Vladimir Putin will not attend the 2012 London Olympics because he would rather eat a bag of dicks than attend your stupid Olympics, London, MOSCOW 4 LYFE.

It is believed that the boycott is intended to express Putin's displeasure with a sundry list of British governmental policies (and vibes), including a Parliamentary proposal to bar senior Russian government officials accused of human rights violations from entering the country.Putin is expected to send Russian Prime Minister/Occasional President Dmitry Medvedev in his stead.Earlier this month, Putin also boycotted the G8 summit hosted by America's own Barack Obama. He said he was too busy to attend. He sent Medvedev in his place, which is not how parties work, Vladimir Putin.
Desperate to make their event seem cool again, the British Foreign Office aka Hype Squad is claiming that these Olympic games will mark "the largest top-level international gathering in diplomatic history," even without Putin, who will no doubt regret his decision not to attend once he realizes that he doesn't get any of the gang's new inside jokes.120 heads of state are scheduled to travel to London, versus the 87 who came to Beijing for the 2008 games.Russia is due to host the Winter Olympics in 2014. Putin will presumably attend those, though it remains to be seen whether anyone other than Putin will be invited
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Singha »

is India sending a delegation to pay home to our Bartania rulers?

(Reuters) - A flotilla of 1,000 boats will sail London's River Thames on Sunday in a spectacular highlight of four days of nationwide celebrations marking Queen Elizabeth's 60 years on the throne.

Around one million people are expected to line the 7-mile (11 km) route of the armada accompanying a royal barge carrying the 86-year-old monarch, her husband Prince Philip and leading members of the royal family.

Up and down the country hundreds of thousands more will take to streets adorned in red, white and blue "Union Jack" flags for diamond jubilee parties to honour the second British monarch to mark the milestone.

The only other was her great-great-grandmother Queen Victoria in 1897, and while Britain is no longer a superpower whose empire straddles the globe, surveys show the royal family is enjoying its strongest public support in decades.

The Saturday-to-Tuesday holiday comes just over a year after the wedding of Prince William to Kate Middleton, an extravaganza of pomp and pageantry that led news bulletins the world over and boasted a global audience of up to two billion people.

The queen kicked off the jubilee celebrations with a visit on Saturday to the Epsom Derby in southern England, indulging her life-long passion for horse racing, and a special gun salute boomed from the historic Tower of London.
Karan Dixit
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Karan Dixit »

^ I think it is a waste of tax payers' money. The saved money could have been used to build better toilets across the nation.
Singha
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Singha »

hopefully london 2012 olympics would be a fitting and glorious curtain call for the bartania empire.
Kanishka
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Kanishka »

^^^^^^
Amen to that.
Lalmohan
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Lalmohan »

the curtain call came in the mid 60's, with one final encore in early 80's - but by then the actress had already aged beyond her years
now its only old reruns
wonder why brf still keeps on thinking that the empire is still alive (decades after it died totally and finally)
Sanku
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Sanku »

Lalmohan wrote: wonder why brf still keeps on thinking that the empire is still alive (decades after it died totally and finally)
Because whenever I look for any Indian treasures, 90% of them show up in that place. Let us have that back and we will forget about it.
brihaspati
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

The empire is very much alive and kicking - it simply has moved offshore into the financial and drug-running, criminal-running, flows.
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