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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2011 22:06 
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Please post J&K News and discuss the items in this thread. Please do not carry on the rhetoric from previous thread.

Thanks, ramana


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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2011 22:48 
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Background

Jammu & Kashmir: Self-Determination, Demands for a Plebiscite and Secession:
Examining the Contradictions

by Dr. Maharaj Kaul (b. Srinagar, Kashmir)

http://india_resource.tripod.com/kashmir.html


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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2011 23:15 
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Any news about tourism sector ? There were reports of a high number of tourists visiting the valley to enjoy snowfall. Of all the people in valley, this section is most dependent on secure and peaceful conditions. But it'll be interesting to see how mango Indians react to images of Indian flag bearers being beaten up by police. IMHO Kashmiris can kiss goodbye to a significant amount of possible earnings during peak tourist season of summers.
It's ironic because loud mouth retards of Hurriyat Conference and their supporters outside the valley (and this forum too) made it look like all Kashmiris would've opposed flag raising. I'm only a little less than 400% sure that most of them would not not have given a damn. Instead of deploying 20 companies of CRPF against Indian nationalists, gobarment should have utilised them to control the handful trouble makers of Hurrirats. There are so many issues on which Gilani, Lone, Malik, Mirwaiz and others don't agree upon even privately. How hard is it to exploit their differences to our advantage ?
When BJP along with Kashmiri Hindu support declared that it'll raise the Indian flag, nobody with interest of INDIA in his/her mind would've thought of stopping them. Instead we have morons who give these muslim extremists a platform to get together and gather attention on a non-issue. This incident is one of the biggest self-goals in my memory. Of course that's assuming that MMS, Raj Parivar and Adbullah Junior bat for India.


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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2011 23:20 
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Kashmir railway. Approaching Qazigund. Cross posting from Railway thread just because I thought it is a beautiful picture...

Image


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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2011 23:56 
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Deleted - JE Menon
Rhetoric carried over from previous thread


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 00:32 
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CRamS: I think you and I exchanged a post or two on the Western media attention to this event. While certainly not a globe changing event it is indeed a significant one. Tunisia and Egypt are so much in news these days. Habib Bourguiba while spearheading Independence movement of Tunisia from France is cited as a big reason for why Tunisian women have lots of freedom, unlike some other countries in that region. It was interesting to hear a feminist talk, this morning, how he did that only to please the West. The Western media does not have to be nudged or prodded to report any news in the emerging World regarding censorship and disruption of protests. The Egyptian protests are making all news.

Granted, the Indian conditions are no where near calamity as per the African or Pakistani standards; even in Huffington Post, a liberal portal, not much yet has been said about this suppression of freedom. But then look at the spin of Reuters here:
A Republic Day to forget for India’s opposition party Very interesting choice of words and spin.

The narrative was dictated by someone, and now it is spread to the masses. Simple.


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 05:27 
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Pakistan Rangers today fired upon a bullet proof Swaraj Mazda vehicle of the BSF at forward village of Khwara in Samba sector (Jammu region). The firing was immediately retaliated by the BSF jawans silencing the guns of Rangers. There were no casualties on the BSF side during the firing though a couple of bullets directly hit the vehicle.

Sources didn’t rule out the possibility of the Rangers resorting to ceasefire violation at the IB with a view to give cover to the infiltrators. However, no such attempt was detected but security forces recovered one live and one used RPG shell from the forward area during searches this morning.

Sources said a flag meeting was held at the border between BSF and Rangers at 9 am today in which Assistant Commandant of 182 battalion of BSF, Veer Singh lodged a strong protest with the Rangers for unprovoked firing on their vehicle. As usual, Inspector Shakeel Ahmed, who represented Rangers, denied any firing.

Daily Excelsior


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 06:56 
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Acharya, Please heed the first post. No carrying discussion from previous thread.

Am going to delete your comments. You can post in off topic thread.


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 13:35 
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Marten wrote:
Bangalore Mirror and I presume TOIlet also carried new articles of how OA's pre-emptive and firm actions have shored up his appeal in the valley and indeed the whole state. Enjoy onlee.


Guess for these DDM's, the whole state extends from one end Srinagar to the other end. Jammu & Ladakh don't count.
Lets see his appeal come summer when the Lazy KM's would come out of hibernation to make money.


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 16:31 
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SwamyG, I think your post above was mistakenly done in the wrong thread. Please put it in the thread you want to asap and delete from here...


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 19:22 
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JE Menon: I was talking about the Western media coverage on the flag hoisting in J&K, versus how they usually cover rallies and marches. Do you think it is still a mistake? I can delete it.


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 22:29 
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That's weird... I got some other stuff when I clicked that link. Never mind. It's fine. Keep it in.


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 22:38 
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JE Menon: Thanks. The link should have taken you to Reuters coverage of the events and their spin (IMO). I probably did not articulate it well. I wanted to highlight the fact that Western media usually focuses "freedom of speech", "liberty" etc. And would side with political parties that aligned with those principles. In this case it was different.


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 22:50 
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^^^

Foreign media has been aligned with INC since UPA-1 came to power. The pattern is most observable with reporting on CBI/Lalu findings where the other body of opinion is not mentioned at all. It is similar to how foreign media would report on human rights abuses in J&K without mentioning the Indian side of the story.

I would not necessarily impute anything sinister in this - it may very well be that they are reporting the official line since many of them now have offices in India.


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 23:10 
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This news is being reported in BBC Urdu that Indian cities in J&K pays tax to Pakistan.




Quote:
پاکستان کی بھارتی شہروں سے ٹیکس وصولی‘

پاکستان کے ٹیکس حکام نے بھارت کے زیر انتظام کشمیر کے سات شہروں کو اپنے علاقے ظاہر کرتے ہوئے وہاں سے ٹیکس وصول کرنے کا انکشاف کیا ہے۔

پارلیمان کے ایوان بالا یعنی سینیٹ میں جمعہ کو وقفہ سوالات کے دوران سینیٹر نجمہ حمید کے سوال کے جواب میں اقتصادی امور کی وزیرِ مملکت حنا ربانی کھر نے جو تحریری جواب پیش کیا ہے اس میں بھارتی شہروں اور ان سے پاکستان کو ٹیکس دینے والوں کی تعداد بھی بتائی ہے۔

جس کے مطابق اُدھم پور، سرینگر، راجوڑی، اسلام آباد (اننت ناگ) میں ایک ایک ٹیکس دہندہ ہے۔ جبکہ لہہ میں ایک سو اٹھانوے، کٹھوہہ میں دو اور ڈوڈا میں ایک سو اکہتر ٹیکس دہندگان حکومتِ پاکستان کو ٹیکس دیتے ہیں۔

حنا ربانی کھر نے بتایا ہے کہ پاکستان میں ٹیکس دہندگاں کی تعداد تیس لاکھ بیالیس ہزار دو سو چھیالیس ہے۔

حکومت نے ضلع وار ٹیکس دہندگاں کی تعداد پر مشتمل معلومات تو ایوان بالا میں پیش کردی ہیں لیکن ٹیکس دہندگان کے نام ظاہر نہیں کیے اور کہا ہے کہ قانون کے مطابق حکومت نام ظاہر نہیں کر سکتی۔

پاکستان میں سب سے زیادہ ٹیکس دہندگان کی تعداد کا تعلق کراچی سے ہے، جو سات لاکھ کے قریب ہے۔ جب کہ لاہور میں ٹیکس دہندگان کی تعداد تقریباً ساڑھے چار لاکھ، کوئٹہ میں تئیس ہزار، پشاور میں پینسٹھ ہزار ٹیکس دہندگان ہیں۔

فیصل آباد میں ایک لاکھ اٹھارہ ہزار، راولپنڈی میں ایک لاکھ سینتالیس ہزار، اسلام آباد ایک لاکھ بائیس ہزار، حیدرآباد اکیس ہزار، ملتان ساٹھ ہزار، لاڑکانہ دس ہزار، نوابشاہ سات ہزار، شمالی وزیرستان ڈیڑھ سو اور جنوبی وزیرستان میں تریسٹھ ٹیکس دہندگان ہیں۔

حکومتی اعداد و شمار کا جائزہ لیں تو پتہ چلتا ہے کہ پاکستان میں ٹیکس دہندگان کی تعداد تو سب سے زیادہ پنجاب میں ہے لیکن سب سے زیادہ ٹیکس صوبہ سندھ سے وصول ہوتا ہے اور پاکستان کی نصف آبادی والے صوبے پنجاب سے زیادہ ٹیکس اسلام آباد شہر سے وصول ہوتا ہے۔

ُادھر قومی اسمبلی میں ارشد خان لغاری کے سوال پر وزیر خزانہ حفیظ شیخ نے بتایا کہ پنجاب سے ساڑھے چودہ لاکھ ٹیکس دہندگان دو سو ارب روپے ٹیکس دیتے ہیں۔ جبکہ صوبہ سندھ سے آٹھ لاکھ چھتیس ہزار ٹیکس دہندگان چار سو ساٹھ ارب روپے ٹیکس دیتے ہیں۔

وفاقی وزیر کے مطابق صوبہ خیبر پختونخوا میں پونے دو لاکھ ٹیکس دہندگان سے تیرہ ارب روپے، بلوچستان کے چھتیس ہزار ٹیکس دہندگان کے سات ارب روپے اور اسلام آباد کے سوا لاکھ ٹیکس دہندگان سے دو سو سولہ ارب روپے ٹیکس وصول ہوتا ہے۔



translation:
Quote:
'Pakistan's tax collection from Indian cities'

Tax authorities in Pakistan-administered Kashmir India seven cities expressed their area to receive tax there is disclosed.

The Senate upper house of Parliament on Friday during Question Hour in reply to question Senator Najma Hameed, Minister of State for Economic Affairs Hina Rabbani Khar, who has written answer from the Indian cities and Pakistan to the tax toll is also specified.

According to the adm Jaipur, Srinagar, rajury, Islamabad (Ananth nag) is a donor a tax. While lhh athanuy a hundred, a hundred kthuhh two and Doda akhtr taxpayers pay taxes to the government of Pakistan.

Hina Rabbani Khar said that in Pakistan the number of tax dhndgan forty-two thousand two hundred thirty million is chyalys.

District-wise number of government tax dhndgan contain information presented in the upper house, but if taxpayers are not to be named said that according to law and government can not be named.

Pakistan's largest number of taxpayers from Karachi is concerned, which is close to seven million. When almost half the number of taxpayers in Lahore four million, tyys thousand in Quetta, Peshawar Sixty five thousand are taxpayers.

One lakh eighteen thousand in Faisalabad, Rawalpindi syntalys a million thousand, a million bayys Islamabad thousand, twenty thousand Hyderabad, Multan sixty thousand, ten thousand Larkana, Nawabshah seven thousand, North Waziristan and South Waziristan in half so taxpayers are trysth .

If other data review shows that the number of taxpayers in Pakistan highest in Punjab, but then most tax is received from Sindh and Punjab province of Pakistan with a population more than half Islamabad city tax is received.

Arshad Khan Leghari here in the National Assembly on the question of Finance Minister Hafeez Sheikh said that half of Punjab fourteen million two hundred billion taxpayers pay tax. Thirty-six thousand, while Sindh province to eight million four hundred sixty billion taxpayers pay tax .

Minister in the province pktunkua Khyber two million taxpayers from Pune thirteen billion, Thirty-six thousand taxpayers of Balochistan and Islamabad than seven billion two hundred million taxpayers would receive tax is sixteen billion.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2011 ... x_zz.shtml


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2011 23:13 
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Thats probably terrorists hafta being reported as legitmate loot for POK.

Meanwhile
ManjaM wrote:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/J-amp-K-police-acted-brutally-against-BJP-workers/Article1-655822.aspx
Quote:
The Jammu and Kashmir police indulged in the worst form of


human rights violations against our party workers. Our Uri assembly candidate in the last elections Halima Akhtar was picked up by the police and taken away blindfolded. She was tortured for three days and then dumped," BJP spokesperson Prakash Javadekar told reporters.
Akhtar has received 10% burns, half her hair has been cut and she is now undergoing treatment in a hospital, he alleged.

Quote:
He alleged JKLF Chief Yasin Malik was allowed to use his mobile, his supporters were offered cigarettes and tea by the police near Lal Chowk while BJP workers were brutally thrashed.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 00:10 
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SwamyG wrote:
JE Menon: Thanks. The link should have taken you to Reuters coverage of the events and their spin (IMO). I probably did not articulate it well. I wanted to highlight the fact that Western media usually focuses "freedom of speech", "liberty" etc. And would side with political parties that aligned with those principles. In this case it was different.


You are giving way too much credit for western media. 99% of the media consists of duckling mouthpieces who report only what is told to them. In this case, its the US govt who downplayed their man MMS's brutality and undemocatic means, and hence the lack of media focus. Thats all there is to it.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 00:12 
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ramana wrote:
.Akhtar has received 10% burns, half her hair has been cut and she is now undergoing treatment in a hospital, he alleged.

Quote:
He alleged JKLF Chief Yasin Malik was allowed to use his mobile, his supporters were offered cigarettes and tea by the police near Lal Chowk while BJP workers were brutally thrashed.
[/quote]

[/quote]

This is troubling, very troubling. Could it be that the security forces themseleves not wanting to fight in the event TSP and their puppets stir up trouble, instead cut a deal with them to bottle up BJP?


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 00:17 
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Not really. They don't want Yasin Malik types to whine about atrocities as that will get media coverage. Others are not of media interest.

Actually his getting perks from J&K Police in away paints him as a sarkari goat. What kind of a sepratist accepts govt biscuits and smokes while on a protest march?


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 01:44 
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LINK

Quote:
Hara-kiri Express
The UPA/ Congress are in dire need of political genius, says N.V.Subramanian.

28 January 2011: In the context of the Centre/ Omar Abdullah's authoritarian mishandling of the BJP's flag yatra, some observations on democratic politics and political genius are in order.

Contrary to what the Congress/ UPA at the Centre and Omar Abdullah in J and K believe, democracy and democratic politics are about give and take. Democracy is not a zero-sum game.

There is no absolute defeat in democracy as there is no eternal victory.
Sixty and particularly the last thirty years of India's roller-coaster democratic politics should make that evident if nothing else.

Just as the UPA in the Centre won't concede the 2G scam JPC demand making a virtue of adamancy, so it thinks blocking the BJP in J and K is a victory won. It will turn out a pyrrhic victory.

A tricolour raised by the BJP in Srinagar's Lal Chowk while not only not illegal would have made no material difference to the J and K situation. Blocking it won't consolidate J and K's accession to India.

Rather, it will embolden the separatists. The clueless Centre and the incompetent Omar Abdullah never figured this from first.

This writer is not concerned that Jammu will wed more firmly in the BJP camp now. The situation may reverse. In time, the Congress could emerge victorious. Such is the glorious uncertainty of democracy.

But the impact of the flag yatra ban in Kashmir is what worries this writer.

Omar Abdullah may crow he has won a new political lease to ruling Kashmir. That begs the question. But how? Stopping the BJP? But it was never a force in the Valley. Nor will it be in the foreseeable future.

That leaves a second question, whose implication Omar Abdullah and his Central mentors would abhor.

The second question gets framed in this manner. By banning the tricolour in Lal Chowk, does Omar Abdullah perceive winning immediate reprieve from the separatists?

If he does so, does he understand the fuller, deeper and graver consequences of this so-called reprieve? Are Syed Ali Shah Geelani & Co going to sit back after seeing Omar Abdullah go on the backfoot for their benefit?

Unless the Central leadership -- which has zilch understanding of politics -- gets immediately proactive in cooling separatist ardour post the messed up flag affair, Kashmir will go on the boil again.

It is not enough to argue that Omar Abdullah hoisted the tricolour at the official twenty-six January ceremony. Lal Chowk has a special political significance for J and K that Bakshi Stadium, the official venue for the Republic Day and Independence Day celebrations, can never have.

All in all, the Centre and Omar Abdullah have mismanaged the situation in a way that shows them incapable of democratic political understanding.

Which leads to the second issue of political genius mentioned in the opening paragraph. One of the doughtiest illustrations of political genius ironically emerges from another BJP Ekta Yatra led by Murli Manohar Joshi back in 1991-92.

P.V.Narasimha Rao was the prime minister then. Save for A.B.Vajpayee, this writer cannot recall any politician of that generation as deep, profound and wise as Narasimha Rao.

Narasimha Rao had another astute politician in his cabinet, Arjun Singh. Although Arjun Singh and Narasimha Rao were bitter rivals, both contributed to saving J and K in their own indirect/ direct and distinct ways.

Besides the Indian Army, some first-class Madhya Pradesh police officers assigned to J and K contributed to preventing its separation in the tumultuous early-Nineties.

A few of these IPS officers were friends/ acquaintances of this writer. These included the legendary D.D.Gupta, Ashok Patel, and in a latter tenure, Vijay Raman (the man who got Ghazi Baba), who retires this month and should be a worthy advisor to any government.

Each of these police officers had been hand-picked by Arjun Singh for his anti-dacoity operations in Madhya Pradesh. Outside the army with counter-insurgency experience, Madhya Pradesh police officers with anti-dacoity skills were thought a good fit for J and K.

In the event, they proved more than able. But the political genius lay in Arjun Singh to identify them and to utilize them for his administrative goals in Madhya Pradesh.

This political genius classically is missing in the Centre today. And Omar Abdullah is too young and arrogant (carrying the halo of Rahul Gandhi's friendship) to even realize the absence of this quality.

But not only were top-grade Madhya Pradesh police officers fortunately deployed in J and K when it was make-or-break for the state. There was also the political genius of a prime minister, Narasimha Rao. He instinctively knew how to employ them to bring peace and stability to the Valley.

When Murli Joshi's Ekta Yatra neared J and K, there was initial anxiety in the local administration. Police friends called this writer unofficially to convey their concerns to the Centre.

Most reluctantly, this writer complied. It is always troublesome and in some ways improper (think Radiagate) to become a backchannel/ postman. But the silence at the Centre's end was deafening/ remarkable.

In time, message returned that everything was under control.

Most readers know how the Joshi yatra ended. No side won and no side lost. J and K's recovery not only continued but accelerated.

Full marks to Narasimha Rao for turning potential disadvantage into profit. The J and K establishment was left wondrous by the turn of events.

If the Congress's administrative experience both at the Centre and in the states is totaled, surely no other party can excel it. Which is why the current, hopeless, irretrievable mess in the Centre (2G, black money, prices, Adarsh, CWG, CVC, infighting...) and in J and K (Omar Abdullah's dispensation is unfit to be called a government) leaves this writer appalled and not a little astonished.

Omar Abdullah is on a course to self-destruction. And there is nobody in the political class of Narasimha Rao, Vajpayee or Arjun Singh on top in the UPA to apply the brakes on the Hara-kiri Express.


In Indian history we had numerous instances of Hara Kiri express with people recluctant to step on brakes due to various factors. The most common fact was a failure to recognize that the train has no driver despite having an occupant.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 02:54 
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Interesting Op-Ed in GreaterKashmir, generally a pro seperetists rag, emphasis are not mine.

Quote:
We All Deserve a Stone to be Pelted at…
We Kashmiris are no better than the faithless Victorians who Arnold found struggling and fighting like the “ignorant armies [that] clash by night”, and that Philip Larkin castigates for ignoring their present and working for some unknown future. The Victorian England suffered from disillusionment and Kashmir, too, faces the same predicament! 2010 summer was really unusual in the sense that it changed the discourse in the streets. Stone-pelting and stone-pelters became buzz words and people believed, or were made to believe, that through stone-pelting we could change course of history. Without looking to the outcome, we plunged into fire for a future which nobody is able to comprehend, though all of us are waiting for Godot as in Waiting for Godot.

Summer unrest has cost us 111 lives. Four months of chaos and mayhem in the streets echoed with the same age-old slogan, Azadi, which made most of the stone-pelters, virtually the Arnoldian “ignorant armies” clashing, of course not only during night, “on a darkling plain”, but more during the day. And, when stone-pelting was responded to by bullets by the security forces, causing heavy loss of life, Kashmiris, by and large, started brooding over the purpose for which stone-pelters got swayed by emotional outbursts (call them seasonal outbursts). The lull that followed the unrest, especially after Obama’s India visit, has surprised many. They ask: Was stone-pelting engineered for Obama only so that he could talk about Kashmir with India, and when he did not, stone-pelting lost its relevance? If it is so, our seasonal-outbursts are leading us only to disasters which we need to mourn in the same way as Arnold is mourning the loss of faith in his poem. I don’t know why the Government became so nervous about a question calling for an assessment of stone-pelters. I have been told that those students who answered the question had no good words for stone-pelters; they did not find any heroism in stone-pelting.
Our seasonal-outburst has deprived us of many youngsters who many believe were not stone-pelters. Whether or not they were stone-pelters, a legitimate question that needs to be answered is, why do these outbursts take place in summer months only when Kashmiris could earn their living by hosting tourists? Who is responsible for devastating the tourist trade here when visitors throng Himachal Pradesh and other hill-stations in India at the same time? Instead of blaming one group or the other in Kashmir, we should blame ourselves for resorting to mindless means to achieve a very difficult goal. We should know, and understand, how unfortunate this nation has been in not having a good leadership that could guide people to some achievable goal. What have we achieved out of stone-pelting? Has Azadi come to us or have UNO Resolutions on Kashmir gained any new momentum? bijli, sadak, pani and employment have once again become more important than the slogans that Kashmir streets reverberated with during the last summer. Today, downtown youth are not coming forward for stone-pelting but are thronging the employment drive initiated by the same police who they accused of killing stone-pelters! Who are we following and what are they leading us to? Does anybody have time to think and respond? Much as I would love to tell them that their methods are disastrous and their speeches are misleading, can I do so? No, because in the words of Faiz Ahmad Faiz, “Jism par qaid hai, jazbat pe janjiren hain,/ Fikr mahbus hai, guftar pe taziren hain…” (On our body is the fetter, on our feelings are chains,/Our thoughts are captive, on our speech censoring.). We have pawned our thoughts and feelings to those who, more often than not, grind their own axes rather than think of what this nation has lost over the years!
In the words of Fiaz, “Lekin ab zulm ki mi’ad ke din thode hain,/Ek zara sabr, ki faryad ke din thode hain.” (But now the days of the span of tyranny are few;/Patience one moment, for the days of complaining are few). Voices of concern have started raising and that is very encouraging. I could be a coward but why should our leaders be? If stone-pelting was the panacea for us, we wouldn’t have been in a messy situation today. Therefore, all of us deserve a stone to be pelted at for we are equally responsible for bringing Kashmir to a never-ending chaotic situation! Summer comes, I become an Azadi-lover and autumn and winter months make me think of my age-old problems—power, roads, water and unemployment. History should have taught us a lesson but, unfortunately, we refuse to learn. The Amarnath land row that had brought entire J&K to a disastrous situation ended with loss of life and the piece of land that had caused the row. And, later on, when the assembly elections were announced, people thronged polling booths as if nothing had happened before the elections. Shouldn’t that have been a good signal for our leadership not to resort to an exercise that would yield no results? Instead, a not-so-unusual incident in Machel was allowed to result in an unprecedented stone-pelting situation that killed many youth but yielded no results! What did we gain from Amarnath land agitation and what did we achieve from stone-pelting? Our economy, our education and, above all, our peace of mind got shattered.
I have no knowledge of the forces from without that might have been behind the last summer-unrest but I am sure no stone was imported from across the border; they were indigenous and in the hands of innocent and ignorant Kashmiris who easily get swayed by emotive slogans. We wasted more than two decades in dreaming about plebiscite which ultimately turned into fighting elections. After a lull of more than a decade, we started our struggle with a bang that has now changed into a whimper. The periodic, spontaneous or otherwise, outbursts are no better than providing purgation to some hidden psychological disorders which only psychiatrists can diagnose. As a common Kashmiri, I know that neither the very volatile situation in the 1990s nor the turbulent days of Amarnath land row or the last summer-unrest have provided the much needed solace to disturbed minds that Kashmir is facing today. Had Faiz seen this, he would have said, “apni himmat hai ki phir bhi jiye-jate hain” (It is our courage that even then we still survive).

(Prof. Muhammad Aslam teaches at the department of English, University of Kashmir)


Last edited by Dipanker on 29 Jan 2011 04:01, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 02:58 
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ajit_tr wrote:
This news is being reported in BBC Urdu that Indian cities in J&K pays tax to Pakistan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2011 ... x_zz.shtml


And you believed it? You do know that the purpose of urdu press whether Paki or BBC is to misinform Pakis, don't you?


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 03:11 
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Some slightly disturbing photos
Atrocities on BJYM workers

Pics of various injuries received and bones broken.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 04:33 
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That Prof of English quotes 19th century English writers and Fiaz about current problem. He reinforces the conclusion that Kashmiri stone pelters are very brave only in Summer and hibernate rest of the year.

Regarding his whine about "why do Kashmiri's have periodic delusions is interesting. It could be related to the religious angle to the whole issue.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 09:22 
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Much of Kashmir stone pelting is a function of financing and when it manages to get thru the mountain passes.

http://www.hindu.com/2011/01/13/stories ... 830700.htm

Quote:
136 of at least 3,000 jobless youth selected as constables


Quote:
SRINAGAR: Hundreds of youth from Srinagar downtown, the nerve centre of the five-month-long summer unrest last year, thronged a special recruitment drive conducted by the Jammu and Kashmir Police on Wednesday.

Many of them were stone-pelters during last year's protests.

At the end of the day, 136 were selected for recruitment as constables.

As a “gesture” to “woo the disgruntled population” of old town Srinagar, the Jammu and Kashmir Police organised a special recruitment drive in Khanyar area.

Director-General of Police Kuldip Khoda and Inspector -General of Police (Kashmir Zone) S.M. Sahai supervised the drive, which attracted at least 3,000 jobless youth.

Even as the Police maintained that the recruitment drive was for the Khanyar Assembly segment only and “it will be taken to other areas later,” people from different parts made a beeline to the place.

“Yes, I was a stone-pelter and I have come to join the police,” said a young boy wishing not to be named. He, however, clarified that police continuously harassed him and “this is the best way to put an end to that.”

“It is better to be in police than to be chased away every time. I am a graduate and have applied for job with many departments but to no avail. This is the best opportunity for us to get employed,” said another youth.

But there were many in the queue who said they were desperate to get a job. “This is a good step,” said Mudasir Ahmad, a graduate who has a large family to support. “Stone-pelting or no stone-pelting, you need a job,” he said.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 11:16 
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I visited Kashmir recently and was in Srinagar till 25th Jan. Wherever I went, I was greeted by locals with 'Aap to hamare Mulk ka hai'. Barring one Auto Driver who was critical of Security Forces, when he discussed burning of a house by Security Forces, rest all talked about the time before militancy i.e, how it use to take only 15 Mins for Check-In at airport to board a plane.
My Kashmir experience made difficult for me to understand If they want Separation as propagated by media or it's their Aloofness which is making their life tough emotionally.


Last edited by archan on 29 Jan 2011 21:33, edited 1 time in total.
username changed from Metaldew to Devam. Forum guidelines.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 12:25 
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J&K cops ‘offered urine for water’ to Ekta yatris

Quote:
January 29, 2011 12:55:34 PM

Pioneer News Service | New Delhi

When separatist leader Yasin Malik and others marched to Lal Chowk with black flags, the police offered them hot tea and cigarettes. But we were arrested for trying to hoist the National Flag… When we asked for water, the police offered us urine.”
Dozen of BJP youth wing workers who have returned to the Capital — with fractured limbs and numerous wounds — narrated the story of brutality unleashed by the Jammu & Kashmir Police in Srinagar on January 26.

These youth leaders had to sneak into Srinagar and hide in small groups to continue with the plan to hoist the National Flag at Lal Chowk, after threats by separatists and prohibitory orders by the State administration.
While Bharatiya Janata Yuva Morcha (BJYM) chief Anurag Thakur and BJP leaders were arrested upon entering Jammu & Kashmir, a couple of youth wing workers made an attempt on January 26 morning to hoist the flag at Lal Chowk.
KK Upadhyay, an engineer from Gurgaon, was the first who tried. He was beaten up. The next group of workers came as close as 20 metres from Lal Chowk. No sooner did one of them take the flag out of his pocket and wave it, that several policemen pounced on him, snatched away the flag, tore it (the National Flag) into pieces and beat him up, fracturing his left hand in the process.

J&K Police personnel were carrying posters — ‘Indian dogs, go back’. The arrested BJP activists were forced to take off their clothes in sub-zero temperatures. Third degree torture was meted out. Does Prime Minister Manmohan Singh have any explanation for this kind of an action? He should apologise to the nation,” Anurag Thakur told The Pioneer on Friday.

Bhrigu Bakshipatra, Rajesh Chowdhary, Mohan Reddy, Suresh Bagashia (office-bearers), Shyantanam Basu (executive member), Jitendra Meena, Virendra S Khinchi, Lokinder Singh Rajawat, Vijay Upadhyay, Vinod Rawat, Bhupinder Chowdhary, Ashok Bhati (from Rajasthan), RP Singh, Shikha Rai, Hiren Mishra (from Delhi), Pradeep Singh Vaghela, Harsh Sanghavi, Alpesh Sashikant (from Gujarat) and Jitendra Gupta (from West Bengal) had to be admitted to a local hospital after they received serious injuries in a police lathicharge.

The State Police, Thakur said, not only tortured party workers but also used obscenities against the BJP national leaders. Maintaining that his yatra was a success - as party workers managed to hoist the flag so close to Lal Chowk despite police cordoning off the area - Thakur said his next plan was to reach out to the people, students in particular, and expose the UPA’s pro-separatist polices.

“We have been successful in our endeavor to excite and rejuvenate India’s youth into proactively taking the cause of national integration and sovereignty,” he said.



http://www.dailypioneer.com/313950/JK-c ... atris.html


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 12:58 
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Going by the events and statements made so far from the OA & his administration....the plan seems to be...

OA is trying to take over the mantle of separatism from other separatists leaders and covert this into short of sub nationalism and using this as a tool he plans to demand more "autonomy" to rule the J&K as Prime minister/Sheikh with more powers and probably with its own constitution. Center(Rahul baba & his managers) sell this to India as victory and legitimate the OA & Co demand in granting whatever been agreed upon. His idea seems to convert the instrument of accession into contract for remaining in India Union.

OA's currency of power(if any) in dealing with Center is his ability to *retain* the separatism dog in his hold like China uses NK in dialogue with US.

If this comes true, Sheikh Abdullah's and Nehru's legacy may come true. History is repeating.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 13:52 
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It's time that people stop treating Kashmiris as political dissidents and recognise them for Islamist bigots that they are and always were. Looking for a political solution to sort out this religious mess is completely counter productive. If it were political, Kashmiri Hindus wouldn't have been treated like they were and then elections wouldn't have been successful either. Sunni KMs don't want azaadi, they want Nizam-e-Mustafa (whatever crap that is) .


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 14:37 
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^ Who would bell the cat Jamwal ji?


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 15:27 
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VikasRaina wrote:
^ Who would bell the cat Jamwal ji?


Why, don't you have faith in Bholu - the guard with the halal flag?

Image

Arun Jaitley writes today in the Indian Express:

Flying the Republic’s flag

Lot of points in that article..


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 19:53 
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Quote:
“J&K Police personnel were carrying posters — ‘Indian dogs, go back’


Unlikely - exxaggerated....No police force will do something like that..


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 20:54 
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Kanson wrote:
Going by the events and statements made so far from the OA & his administration....the plan seems to be...

OA is trying to take over the mantle of separatism from other separatists leaders and covert this into short of sub nationalism and using this as a tool he plans to demand more "autonomy" to rule the J&K as Prime minister/Sheikh with more powers and probably with its own constitution. Center(Rahul baba & his managers) sell this to India as victory and legitimate the OA & Co demand in granting whatever been agreed upon. His idea seems to convert the instrument of accession into contract for remaining in India Union.

OA's currency of power(if any) in dealing with Center is his ability to *retain* the separatism dog in his hold like China uses NK in dialogue with US.

If this comes true, Sheikh Abdullah's and Nehru's legacy may come true
. History is repeating.


Kanson, Brilliant analysis. His espousing the separatist causes initially looked perplexing but your explanation fits the events: remove, AFSPA, prevent Indian opposition to raise the flag in Lal Chowk, periodic rants at GOI as if he is not in the UPA.

Rahul baba e al game plan is to have their own running the separatist goons just as sheikh used to till he got fat on the loot and his brother in law Bakshi cut him off.

For uncle Hurriyat is losing its utility and the movement needs to be taken over by more manipulatable folks.


You should concentrate more in strat forum so we can benefit from your thoughts!!!


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 20:55 
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Hmm..somehow, idea of KMs killing KPs inspite of Secular Sufi Kashmiriyat seems unreal to me too. So does idea of pious Paki muslims killing other pious muslims (+ Kafirs)
+ idea of KPs living in abject poverty
+ KMs squatting on majority of jobs in the state

But who am I to pass judgement on followers of religion of peace.

AoA and IMHO onlee


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 21:04 
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VikasRaina wrote:
^ Who would bell the cat Jamwal ji?



IMHO, whatever was done to crush Khalistanis should be done in J&K too. For religious bigots like KMs there is no substitute for a slightly oiled danda up where sun doesn't shine. The trouble as you put it, nobody is willing to call Islamic bigotry for the thing that it is. Islam is a curse wherever it is present and dhimmis like us think that us being secular and tolerant will change these bigots too, whether it's by mutual economic prosperity, peace, love etc etc or by paying jaziya. Some folks simply refuse to learn form the history and there is a famous saying about them.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 21:09 
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People doubt the news reports from on news source while building their entire braincells on similar news and "peer-reviewed" research.

"true Muslims don't kill other Muslims" and "killing of one human is like killing entire humanity" are what come to mind when reading such intellectual bhashans

it must be untrue if my mind can't fathom it. This is exactly how those western and middle-eastern intellectuals thought before and are thhinking today.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 21:15 
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ramana wrote:
Not really. They don't want Yasin Malik types to whine about atrocities as that will get media coverage. Others are not of media interest.

Actually his getting perks from J&K Police in away paints him as a sarkari goat. What kind of a sepratist accepts govt biscuits and smokes while on a protest march?


This is how you and I think. But the reality is that the animals that fed on Bharatiya biryiani in Hazratbal shrine later became Ghazis of next wave of Islamic terror on india.

As long as we apply logic and reason to these thugs we will be at defeated end only.

We need to be secular when it comes to terror (isn't this what Congress want to do?) and give these Kashmiris the Khalistan treatment.

That is the only situation. Does even BJP has stomach for that? People don't become great leaders for no reason.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 21:24 
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Do you need great leaders to do such jobs ? Siddhartha Shankar Ray types will suffice for Khalistani-style cleanups - no?


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 21:30 
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They can do the job. But it would require a leader to put the right perso at the right place and hold the fort for 3-5 years. And have the stomach to sacrifice the pawn when the purpose is achieved.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2011 21:42 
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At the very minimum we need to have politicians ( leader is such an incorrect term these days) in power who realise that their personal interests and those of the country are not mutually exclusive. This particular trait is missing from most of politicians in power.


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