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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 13:50 
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Link to last page of earlier iteration of this thread - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5337&start=4240


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 22:17 
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Quote:
brihaspati wrote:
What I obliquely indicated is an understanding conveyed to the jihadis to our west (or for that matter the Han imperialists, who surely "survey" our forum), that their interests are best served by not damaging the current Indian state, with its still intact Brit-raj period inherited mindsets/institutional thinking/approaches/towards favourable bias on Left/"secular"/Islamic/Christian and anti-Hindu. If they damage this state hoping to overthrow the state to expand territorially or otherwise, they will clear the way for a more ruthless Hindu backlash that will match or surpass Jihadi/Communist/Christian-west inspired sadism.

Current or immediate future Indian state leaders can use the threat of this potential to make the jihadis indefinitely postpone their moves on India.


The TSP state will pretend to be caliphate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmT1WCurvsI
These authors knew before where the state is going including Uncle.
Now they want to rally against it and create a monster

On June 30th, Arif Jamal joined Husain Haqqani, Hudson senior fellow and former Ambassador of Pakistan to the United States, to discuss Lashkar-e-Taiba and other radical Islamist groups in Pakistan. In Call for Transnational Jihad, Jamal explores the formation of the parent organization of LeT, the Jamaat-ud-Dawa. Jamal draws upon primary sources to trace the ideological and organizational roots of Jamaat-ud-Dawa back through the 1970s and show the presence of Jamaat-ud-Dawa and its affiliates


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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2014 01:20 
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Two trends : pak and jihadis seem to be advancing their timeline, which I thought would take them about 1-2 years to replan after the shock of BJP win. (They can no longer rely on the Congress and assorted Islamophile parties or the media impressions about which way Hindu consolidation heading or not consolidating). My surmise was that this time they will rely more on coercion/subversion or direct jihad, mounted from outside and trying to activate fifth column inside.

They also realize that their time window is getting narrower. If they let leave for too long, either Modi will put India on too much military foundation that will make direct wars unwinnable. or Hindus will get too consolidated.

But everything NM and co have done so far are correct. If they can go on doing this both civil-war and external war by pak-jihadi-Chinese combo will not even be undertaken by them for the uncertainty of the outcome.

Somewhere however the Pak-jihadis are advancing the timeline and Modi's slow and steady "economic" war lags behind. This is my intuitive sense and I cannot justify or explain further. The coming 3-4 months may be crucial to have a more concrete grip on who races ahead. Lets see.

Its probably important that people
(1) psychologically be prepared to face both external and internal jihad that may have non-jihadi components for camouflage such as reds, regional separatism etc.
(2) should get as much defense training/exposure/experience as possible and familiarize with potential sources of hardware
(3) learn to form flexible networks that can quickly come into defensive formations to sanitize pre-scoped areas/territories


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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2014 05:03 
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brihaspati ji,

Qadri and Imran combo in Pak is trying to replicate the "spring" in the desert.

I think the ISI+PA forces are still very much in control of Pak, which makes it difficult to replicate this in Pak.

BUT, if there are defections in the Army and ISI, it's a different story altogether. I think Pak has more chance of going the "internal coup": assassinations and removal of figures "loyal" to the existing military+democracy (as flawed as it is) regime.

in essence gain control of the PA and ISI and eventually fuse both the Mullahcracy and the military. what if Qadri is the al-Baghdadi of Pakistan? albeit sharing control with some uniformed Jihadi in PA ranks...

I am inclined to believe that Imran is a useful idiot who will be sidelined or eliminated once his usefulness is done.

edit: took out some irrelevant parts. not sure it's relevant here. other than the fact that he's been close with Brit nationals for a long time.


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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2014 06:41 
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Brihaspatiji,

The problem is we have large swaths of territory that are becoming muslim majority. Wahabis are quickly taking over all the mosques. Even if Pakistan and China weren't factors we would eventually still be facing a massive internal jihad. Even with hindu consolidation, territorial loss will happen. Kashmir through UP and then to WB and Assam is a stretch of green. Kerala will eventually go the same way.


Last edited by RoyG on 25 Aug 2014 20:03, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2014 08:55 
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^^^
RoyG ji,

the problem is: the internal subversives will not show their faces until they feel confident. so they will wait for some sort of external consolidation which is strong enough to support them into State power.

till that time, the existing Indian State cannot really act against the internal elements.


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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2014 11:02 
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devesh wrote:
^^^
RoyG ji,

the problem is: the internal subversives will not show their faces until they feel confident. so they will wait for some sort of external consolidation which is strong enough to support them into State power.

till that time, the existing Indian State cannot really act against the internal elements.


That may be. But at the same time, the actions of the Muslims in UP post the assembly election win of the SP. Along with the resultant Hindu polarization resulting in BJP + getting 73 LS seats in UP. Clearly shows that if the Muslims continue on the current path. They can be sure of getting a BJP dominated govt in the state as well post the next assembly elections.

Also, we need to start ignoring the media discourse that seeks to confuse people into silence. On the ground the game has changed. What is lacking at this time amongst the Hindus is the organisation needed to wage a war. But we can rest assured that, if the situation continues the way it is. It is inevitable that this organisation will also come into place.

It can only be stopped, if the Muslims stop being tactically brilliant and integrate with the national mainstream. It can't be stopped by the Hindus or the state.


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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2014 20:12 
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I'm sorry but there is no such thing as Muslims becoming part of the mainstream. We've been fed this bulls*hit since the first incursions took place in Afghanistan and our people were all slowly driven from the periphery into the gangetic heartland. We need a good/bad cop routine. Good cop is BJP which will focus on development, macroeconomic and security strategy, intelligence, proper policing etc. but we also need a ruthless rural movement (bad cop) similar to the naxalites which will take control of the country side in areas where the gov writ isn't strong. Creativity outside the law and constitution is needed. This will serve as the reservoir for irregular warfare talent which can hold onto territory should Muslims decide to wage jihad and begin consolidating and if a nationalist gov at the center falls.


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2014 05:40 
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Location: जो हिंदू हित की बात करेगा वही देश पर राज करेगा !!!
It'll happen, the only condition is that Hindu leadership shows the guts and completes following operation Tripurantaka:

1. 414 warheads of 200 kt each on Pakistan

2. 90 warheads of 100 kt each on Bangladesh

Seeing this not only IM but also leftover porkis all over the world will be happy to integrate. Only one step 'Operation: Tripurantak'


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2014 06:20 
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RoyG wrote:
I'm sorry but there is no such thing as Muslims becoming part of the mainstream. We've been fed this bulls*hit since the first incursions took place in Afghanistan and our people were all slowly driven from the periphery into the gangetic heartland. We need a good/bad cop routine. Good cop is BJP which will focus on development, macroeconomic and security strategy, intelligence, proper policing etc. but we also need a ruthless rural movement (bad cop) similar to the naxalites which will take control of the country side in areas where the gov writ isn't strong. Creativity outside the law and constitution is needed. This will serve as the reservoir for irregular warfare talent which can hold onto territory should Muslims decide to wage jihad and begin consolidating and if a nationalist gov at the center falls.


Decentralized, just basic outline, no definable centre. Backup and placed as second line of defense. Suggested as the fall back option to prevent competition anxiety among those officially tasked with the job. Cant have even ex-es imparting training. Trust deficit, and no Purohit repeats. This is the most difficult bit. Naxals are trained both externally and by lower echelons of forces. Possibly also now embedded intel folks. That shouldnt happen for this effort.


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2014 06:24 
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devesh ji,
the qadri is the stronger horse. and has greater base. Imran draws from urban folks. Egypt grew up with urbanites closer to "secular" equally divided between Islamists and non-Islamists. Paki urbanites have a stronger jihadi component in spite of tweeter shenanigans. its the PA+ISI which will call the shots. They need external jihad to stave off the internal crises.


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2014 06:50 
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RoyG wrote:
I'm sorry but there is no such thing as Muslims becoming part of the mainstream. We've been fed this bulls*hit since the first incursions took place in Afghanistan and our people were all slowly driven from the periphery into the gangetic heartland. We need a good/bad cop routine. Good cop is BJP which will focus on development, macroeconomic and security strategy, intelligence, proper policing etc. but we also need a ruthless rural movement (bad cop) similar to the naxalites which will take control of the country side in areas where the gov writ isn't strong. Creativity outside the law and constitution is needed. This will serve as the reservoir for irregular warfare talent which can hold onto territory should Muslims decide to wage jihad and begin consolidating and if a nationalist gov at the center falls.


Will this not be extra-constitutional and undemocratic ?


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2014 07:48 
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So? Do you want what is happening in Syria, and Iraq to happen in India? Dharmics by the truckloads being taken to the country side and beheaded? You have to be able to move quickly through the country side and choke them in the small and medium towns. The cities will be easily taken by us. The goal shouldn't be to massacre them but to give them safe passage into Pakistan. That is if we face an existential crisis like partition.

The constitution isn't ours even though we would like it to be. We can't even be original. Using words like secular, socialist, and starting off with "We the people"...

Perhaps a swadeshi alternative to leftism will be able to convert a large section of Naxals. I agree with Brihasaptiji though. They will have to keep quiet and move silently to keep the police and paramilitary off their backs. Intel guys joining the movement will be inevitable. Once a major hindu movement starts it will make its way into IB and other agencies.

The trick will be how to keep both the gov and the irregulars from battling each other.


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2014 09:44 
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Location: जो हिंदू हित की बात करेगा वही देश पर राज करेगा !!!
Brihaspati ji, have you seen this 3rd world war scenario where Bharatvarsh fights alone against the joint forces of Islamistan (arabia to pakistan) and cheen:



I think Harbans ji had posted it couple of years back.


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2014 11:01 
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I think that my post has been misunderstood regarding the war waging organisation for Hindus. I am not saying that it will be like the IM. I am saying that the civil society will strengthen it self to such an extent that any misadventure will result in total obliteration of the aggressor. Unless the aggressor is supported by the coercive might of the state apparatus.

We have already witnessed this with Muzaffnagar.


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PostPosted: 27 Aug 2014 03:17 
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RoyG wrote:
So? Do you want what is happening in Syria, and Iraq to happen in India? Dharmics by the truckloads being taken to the country side and beheaded? You have to be able to move quickly through the country side and choke them in the small and medium towns. The cities will be easily taken by us. The goal shouldn't be to massacre them but to give them safe passage into Pakistan. That is if we face an existential crisis like partition.

The constitution isn't ours even though we would like it to be. We can't even be original. Using words like secular, socialist, and starting off with "We the people"...

Perhaps a swadeshi alternative to leftism will be able to convert a large section of Naxals. I agree with Brihasaptiji though. They will have to keep quiet and move silently to keep the police and paramilitary off their backs. Intel guys joining the movement will be inevitable. Once a major hindu movement starts it will make its way into IB and other agencies.

The trick will be how to keep both the gov and the irregulars from battling each other.


Who will take the lead in over throwing the current system ? The military ? If not the military, then who ?


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PostPosted: 27 Aug 2014 05:17 
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You haven't understood. The goal is to preserve two different poles. Swadeshi/community based guerrilla army and a very strong Mauryan-like center. One shouldn't trump the other. Both work together to keep the country intact.


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PostPosted: 27 Aug 2014 05:33 
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RoyG wrote:
You haven't understood. The goal is to preserve two different poles. Swadeshi/community based guerrilla army and a very strong Mauryan-like center. One shouldn't trump the other. Both work together to keep the country intact.


I have really not understood.

Swadeshi/community based guerrilla army, I understand.

Who will provide the strong Maurya-like Center ? This "democratically" elected government ?


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PostPosted: 27 Aug 2014 19:49 
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RoyG mahashay,
desist from outlining in response to "democracy" etc. It was a "democratic" Brit state whom people tout as being "democratic" from stone age, ran Kenyan Nazi-style genocide and concentration camps. The queries on "democracy" are never raised for them. Or the "anti-fascists" who mumble and hem and haw when asked on Gulags. ("oh it became necessary in a specific global situation when Russians/communists/Soviets were fighting such "fascistic" forces as US" - no need to be factual though on the reality of the relation between UK/USA and Russia in the heyday of Gulags)

Every "undemocratic" measure is justified if it can be claimed to have been done in "national interest" and if it was by Brits, or communists or Islamists. Suddenly the multiplicity-multifaced, multicultural, multi-stranded, not-one-narrow-thread-like-HIndutvavadis who "deny and conflate classes/castes together into a fascistic mass/volk" - secular+democratic+antifascists hide behind a monochromatic "national interest" to emulate the very fascistis/undemocratic practcies they lambast in their perceived obstacles.

So you may have to give it a "good Muslim" communist tinge - and then everything will be okay: no questions on "democracy" will be raised.


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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2014 02:29 
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brihaspati wrote:
RoyG mahashay,
desist from outlining in response to "democracy" etc. It was a "democratic" Brit state whom people tout as being "democratic" from stone age, ran Kenyan Nazi-style genocide and concentration camps. The queries on "democracy" are never raised for them. Or the "anti-fascists" who mumble and hem and haw when asked on Gulags. ("oh it became necessary in a specific global situation when Russians/communists/Soviets were fighting such "fascistic" forces as US" - no need to be factual though on the reality of the relation between UK/USA and Russia in the heyday of Gulags)

Every "undemocratic" measure is justified if it can be claimed to have been done in "national interest" and if it was by Brits, or communists or Islamists. Suddenly the multiplicity-multifaced, multicultural, multi-stranded, not-one-narrow-thread-like-HIndutvavadis who "deny and conflate classes/castes together into a fascistic mass/volk" - secular+democratic+antifascists hide behind a monochromatic "national interest" to emulate the very fascistis/undemocratic practcies they lambast in their perceived obstacles.

So you may have to give it a "good Muslim" communist tinge - and then everything will be okay: no questions on "democracy" will be raised.


You misunderstood. You and I are saying the same thing. I just said all of what you said, by simply putting the word "democracy" in quotes in my post previous to yours. That said it all.

I was not questioning RoyG's intent or his end goal, which I completely share. I was simply asking him, how he saw us getting from "here" to "there" within the constraints that we have, and without indulging in leaps of faith or wishful thinking.

Yes, we have to "evolve" our "democracy" to "customize" it to our present circumstance and the goals we all want accomplished. The question is, who will take the lead and how will it be done ? In other words, who will bell the cat, so to speak. That is why I asked RoyG if he was thinking that military could do it.


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