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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 10:06 
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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 10:07 
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The absurdity runs deep: America is using American military equipment to bomb other pieces of American military equipment halfway around the world. The reason the American military equipment got there in the first place was because, in 2003, the US had to use its military to rebuild the Iraqi army, which it just finished destroying with the American military. The American weapons the US gave the Iraqi army totally failed at making Iraq secure and have become tools of terror used by an offshoot of al-Qaeda to terrorize the Iraqis that the US supposedly liberated a decade ago. And so now the US has to use American weaponry to destroy the American weaponry it gave Iraqis to make Iraqis safer, in order to make Iraqis safer.


http://www.vox.com/2014/8/8/5982501/the ... nt-in-iraq


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 10:09 
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What is "absurd" about it. :roll: Americans export weapons, planes, computers. This is only to be expected. Only non-cynical people think it is absurd.


Last edited by matrimc on 09 Aug 2014 10:42, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 10:27 
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^^^ me : non-cynical.


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 10:56 
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Touché! Fair enough.


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 13:19 
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Pretty much what I had mentioned in my last post. Put much better

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder ... thern-Iraq

Snipped from it: "Along the same lines, the top commander of the (currently small) US military force in Iraq says that “we must neutralize this enemy,” and that ISIS is "not just a violent extremist organization.” “This is an army,” he went on to say, “and it takes an army to defeat an army.” This obviously means that we’re talking about a lot more than just the limited airstrikes that we’ve seen today and that, at some point President Obama, is going to have to decide whether he wants to become the second president in just over a decade to send American combat forces into Iraq, this time in the middle of a civil war that seems likely to tear the country apart before it’s over."


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 13:48 
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The turning point is ISIS taking over Kurdish territory which has significant Oil Reserves and where Western Companies are working.

All the talk of genocide , voilence against Christian is just smoke screen , If US was so worried about Christians dying then why didnt it intervened in Syria when Christians city was attacked and thousands were killed.

The usual War Mongering Channel like CNN are in full swing giving positive spin to it.


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 16:19 
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The age old saying holds true,"It's all about OIL!"


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 16:21 
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this video is interesting...has allegedly the only known footage of abu bakr al baghdadi leading a sermon in black robes. could pass off as a orthodox church patriarch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsCZzpmbEcs

kids as young as 11 have been mobilized to become jihadis as they catch one in this video.


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 19:45 
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you want to see an ISIS road block get roasted? check the US Navy twitter video at this link. scroll down.....

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-t ... aq-n176741

crispy critters...just remember, they want to die.....

addendum, I've seen 500 pounders go off but not with that much fire, they must be putting a special sauce in the ingredient mix now days. or maybe that is just the infrared scope enhancement? Anyhoo I would not want to be on an ISIS road block around that mountain of refugees. Not when the squids are running their own terror campaign. :)


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 20:29 
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Indian Shiites volunteer to go to Iraq to protect their shrines from ISIS


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 21:36 
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good thing, no other military force operates in the sunni dominated iraqi part of the caliphate.
the iraqi national army threw their uniforms and ran south.
the kurds were never there.
nobody else is playing in that sandbox.

so any and every armed vehicle found is a ISIS asset and easy to discriminate as a target.

but inside the towns and in civil vehicles, the ISIS can still move around manpower albeit not their captured iraqi army heavy weapons and HMG equipped hummers. these will be in the goatshed for a while hoping america loses interest and wanders away again.


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 21:57 
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TSJones wrote:
you want to see an ISIS road block get roasted? check the US Navy twitter video at this link. scroll down.....

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-t ... aq-n176741

crispy critters...just remember, they want to die.....

addendum, I've seen 500 pounders go off but not with that much fire, they must be putting a special sauce in the ingredient mix now days. or maybe that is just the infrared scope enhancement? Anyhoo I would not want to be on an ISIS road block around that mountain of refugees. Not when the squids are running their own terror campaign. :)


I am not impressed.


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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014 22:08 
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TSJones wrote:
you want to see an ISIS road block get roasted? check the US Navy twitter video at this link. scroll down.....

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-t ... aq-n176741

crispy critters...just remember, they want to die.....

addendum, I've seen 500 pounders go off but not with that much fire, they must be putting a special sauce in the ingredient mix now days. or maybe that is just the infrared scope enhancement? Anyhoo I would not want to be on an ISIS road block around that mountain of refugees. Not when the squids are running their own terror campaign. :)


What I don't understand us why so much ammunition for a couple of cars? Or are they armored vehicles and require that much TNT to destroy the armor?


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2014 01:34 
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matrimc wrote:
TSJones wrote:
you want to see an ISIS road block get roasted? check the US Navy twitter video at this link. scroll down.....

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-t ... aq-n176741

crispy critters...just remember, they want to die.....

addendum, I've seen 500 pounders go off but not with that much fire, they must be putting a special sauce in the ingredient mix now days. or maybe that is just the infrared scope enhancement? Anyhoo I would not want to be on an ISIS road block around that mountain of refugees. Not when the squids are running their own terror campaign. :)


What I don't understand us why so much ammunition for a couple of cars? Or are they armored vehicles and require that much TNT to destroy the armor?


they're using laser guided bombs because it's a long ways away from the target. if they get too close the target may get alerted and scatter. you want to keep 'em bunched up if you can. the US is also risk adverse, losing casualties in Iraq is highly unpopular with the American public right now. Most Americans wants Iraq to sink or swim on it's own merit. So keeping the F-18's at a distance miles away from the target reduces the chances of ISIS heavy machine gun fire and manpads scoring a hit. So a 500 lb laser guided bomb is a good choice that solves a lot of problems.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2014 02:08 
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Plus Unlce Same can afford it and it puts fear of GOD for other ISIS.

I really don't understand why unlce Sam waited this long for ISIS. Syria, i get itbut IRAQ man... this is really really dumb.

ISIS now have control of major dam in Mosul.

I have to tell ya, some times politics, self persevation and lack minimum foresight can cause major blunders.

You can always American people do not have any more stomach for ....well may be they will change if you actually report what ISIS is doing..

They truly truly following mdeival war rules. plain and simple.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2014 08:56 
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Brihaspati is right that ISIS is nothing special and just the progressive and natural evolution of a Sunni society left without strict state control.

as night follows day, in a few years if a 'moderate/good ISIS' faction makes its peace with the US (ie accepts bribes to tone down their violence), a purer and more radical faction of ISIS will take charge, cut down the moderates and climb the evolutionary ladder.

where this process of evolution will end nobody can predict. it will end when they are all dead or have killed everyone else.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2014 09:53 
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Singha wrote:
Brihaspati is right that ISIS is nothing special and just the progressive and natural evolution of a Sunni society left without strict state control.

as night follows day, in a few years if a 'moderate/good ISIS' faction makes its peace with the US (ie accepts bribes to tone down their violence), a purer and more radical faction of ISIS will take charge, cut down the moderates and climb the evolutionary ladder.

where this process of evolution will end nobody can predict. it will end when they are all dead or have killed everyone else.


One of the things I am starting to realize is that Hinduism is an "integrating" force. We integrate extreme diversity and find ways to live together. The key part of this is that there is no History-centricism. Resulting in acceptance of different paths, and different faiths.

History-centric monotheism is "differentiating" belief. Since history-centricity makes them refer to a common source of knowledge (or blabber :P ), it means that the same words in that knowledge source (bible, koran) can be interpreted differently. That results in immediate fragmentation of the followers who differentiate from each other withe labels (Catholic, Protestant, Calvinist, Hobbist, Jehovas Wittness, Mormon, Shia, Sunni, Barelvi, Wahhabandi .... list is long).

One can build a mathematical model using graph theory. It would be a tree structure. Each node killing every other one. At random intervals an existing node splits, causing the tree to increase in height and the process of war to continue. The longer the time such a religion exists, the higher/deeper the tree would be. Sometimes one node will be so powerful, it will kill all the other nodes and the process resets :) Ad infinitum.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2014 10:57 
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would make for a nice bouncing ball simulation too. a set of balls bouncing in a enclosed box. periodically these balls split into two. and any collision results in the end of one ball. this system will in all likelihood never reach any stability, but exist in constant state of eating each other and fission!


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2014 18:39 
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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2014 18:45 
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these are local sunnis or atmost syrians from the looks of it.
this after they have shared the ancient land with shias for 1000+ years.

just as mongols, they are using deliberate acts of terror to scare the opposition off.

sunnis seem to have enmasse ratted on their former neighbours and fellow citizens once the ISIS arrived to take charge....surely no force involved in kids as young as 11 (see video I posted from vice news) trekking to some mosque with parents to swear allegience to their prince and promise to kill a few infidels.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2014 22:54 
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Started hearing in mainstream (pr0pagandu) media (understand there is nothing mainstream about it), about calls for official split of Eyerak, with all out support for Curdishtan...wonder if Eyerak as a country stays independent this time around next year...

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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 00:29 
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Kurdistan is a vital western staging/intel post for Iran and car states. Superior location to turkey. They would not want to lose it.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 01:37 
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As ISIS Militants Exert Their Control, U.S. Pursues a Military Middle Road

Quote:
In carrying out limited airstrikes in Iraq, the Obama administration is pursuing a strategy that attempts to contain the threat posed by Islamic militants but that does not seek to break their hold on northern and western Iraq.

This was not an authorization of a broad-based counterterrorism campaign” against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, a senior administration official said.

Quote:
The circumstances in which Mr. Obama said he would be prepared to use air power were to stop an advance by the militants on Erbil, where an American consulate is based and troops staff a joint operation center, and to protect the American Embassy in Baghdad. Mr. Obama also noted that he was prepared to mount airstrikes “if necessary” to help Kurdish or Iraqi forces break the siege of Mount Sinjar and to protect the tens of thousands of Yazidi civilians who have taken refuge there.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 01:58 
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Was watching a clip of Vice News piece on ISIS ( link via zerohedge ) and in very beginnnin of the clip clearly heard '' Idher bhi aa jao , aa jao , hum yahan per hein ( come here. here , we are here ).Very clear hindi/urdu sentence .


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 03:45 
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^^^^
ssshhhh! don't reveal that. you see, the ME is entirely isolated from India. what happens in ME, stays in ME. :)


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 05:05 
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a few comments-
a couple of days earleir had a smaall discusssion with a american(syrian born christian)

he was intially supportive of american attempts to dislodge Bashar Al assad. He says basahr is a dictator who maintians a deadlygrip oveer everyonee in syria. he liquidates every opposition.
But now he is not -- in fact angry with america. the rebels in syria are much dangerous than bashar. america is making a msitake by arming them thru proxies etc. americans say that theey are arming the moderate factions which iss BS per this person.

About ISIS, he first said why did america send fighter jets now, 1000s of christians are being killed there. he did not say anthing about the rest. like yazidis etc. who are not christians.

I brought up the fact that america destroyed saddam and organistaional structure which kept iraq in one piece.usa thru paul bremer damaged iraq by removing the orgamistaional structure. there is no central authority.

wherever they go they have scr*w*d local regions. he agreed and talked something about BO policies. he was angry that POTUS wanted muslim brotherhood as in egypt. but this was rectified.

currently they are going in to scare the ISIS not to attack the oil rich regions and not christians and yazidis. these are a front for their nefarious causes.
he kept quiet. topic changed.

Overall america is following briturds policies of divide and rule , destroying locals in many ways.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 07:30 
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>> troops staff a joint operation center

that itself is the giveaway. US has withdrawn from Iraq and not any longer engaged in any military ops there, they have ample space/airborne assets for the periodic recce....so what 'joint ops' are they doing in kurdish territory. it could be iran ops, could be car ops, could be ELINT base..perhaps all three and more.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 07:49 
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Iraq crisis: West’s ‘mandate’ is limited by national borders – and don’t dare mention oil
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 60393.html

Quote:
President Obama says ‘problem’ will not be solved in weeks. So how long will it take, asks Robert Fisk
Robert Fisk
Sunday 10 August 2014

In the Middle East, the first shots of every war define the narrative we all dutifully follow. So too, this greatest crisis since the last greatest crisis in Iraq. Christians fleeing for their lives? Save them. Yazidis starving on the mountain tops? Give them food. Islamists advancing on Irbil? Bomb them. Bomb their convoys and “artillery” and their fighters, and bomb them again and again until…

Well, the first clue about the timeframe of our latest Middle East adventure came at the weekend when Barack Obama told the world – in the most disguised “mission creep” of recent history – that “I don’t think we’re going to solve this problem [sic] in weeks – this is going to take time.” So how much time? At least a month, obviously. And maybe six months. Or maybe a year? Or more? After the 1991 Gulf War – there have actually been three such conflicts in the past three-and-a-half decades, with another in the making – the Americans and British imposed a “no-fly” zone over southern Iraq and Kurdistan. And they bombed the military “threats” they discovered in Saddam’s Iraq for the next 12 years.

So is Obama laying the groundwork – the threat of “genocide”, the American “mandate” from the impotent government in Baghdad to strike at Iraq’s enemies – for another prolonged air war in Iraq? And if so, what makes him – or us – think that the Islamists busy creating their caliphate in Iraq and Syria are going to play along with this cheerful scenario. Do the US President and the Pentagon and Centcom – and, I suppose, the childishly named British Cobra committee – really believe that Isis, for all its medieval ideology, is going to sit on the plains of Ninevah and wait to be destroyed by our munitions?

No, the lads from Isis or the Islamic State or the caliphate or whatever they like to call themselves are simply going to divert their attacks elsewhere. If the road to Irbil is closed, then they’ll take the road to Aleppo or Damascus which the Americans and British will be less willing to bomb or defend – because that would mean helping the regime of Bashar al-Assad of Syria, whom we must hate almost as much as we hate the Islamic State. Yet if the Islamists do try to capture all of Aleppo, besiege Damascus, and push on across the Lebanese frontier – the largely Sunni Mediterranean city of Tripoli would seem a choice target – we are going to be forced to expand our precious “mandate” to include two more countries, not least because they border the one nation even more deserving of our love and protection than Kurdistan: Israel. Anyone thought of that? An oil drilling facility in Taq Taq, near Erbil An oil drilling facility in Taq Taq, near Erbil

And then, of course, there’s the unmentionable. When “we” liberated Kuwait in 1991, we all had to recite – again and again – that this war was not about oil. And when we invaded Iraq in 2003, again we had to repeat, ad nauseam, that this act of aggression was not about oil – as if the US Marines would have been sent to Mesopotamia if its major export was asparagus. And now, as we protect our beloved Westerners in Irbil and succour the Yazidis in the mountains of Kurdistan and mourn for the tens of thousands of Christians fleeing from the iniquities of Isis, we must not – do not and will not – mention oil.

I wonder why not. For is it not significant – or just a bit relevant – that Kurdistan accounts for 43.7 billion barrels of Iraq’s 143 billion barrels of reserves, as well as 25.5 billion barrels of unproven reserves and three to six trillion cubic metres of gas? Global oil and gas conglomerates have been flocking to Kurdistan – hence the thousands of Westerners living in Irbil, although their presence has gone largely unexplained – and poured in upwards of $10bn in investments. Mobil, Chevron, Exxon and Total are on the ground – and Isis is not going to be allowed to mess with companies like these – in a place where oil operators stand to pick up 20 per cent of all profits.


Indeed, recent reports suggest that current Kurdish oil production of 200,000 barrels a day will reach 250,000 next year – providing the boys from the caliphate are kept at bay, of course – which means, according to Reuters, that if Iraqi Kurdistan were a real country and not just a bit of Iraq, it would be among the top 10 oil-rich countries in the world. Which is surely worth defending. But has anyone mentioned this? Has a single White House reporter pestered Obama with a single question about this salient fact?

Sure, we feel for the Christians of Iraq – although we cared little enough when their persecution started after our 2003 invasion. And we should protect the minority Yazidis, as we promised – but failed – to protect 1.5 million genocided Armenian Christians from their Muslim killers in the same region 99 years ago. But don’t let’s forget that the masters of the Middle East’s new caliphate are not fools. The boundaries of their war stretch far beyond our military “mandates”. And they know – even if we do not admit – that our real mandate includes that unspeakable word: oil.



ISIS genocide.Ethnic cleansing of the Yazidis.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/
Islamic State militants 'bury 500 Yazidis in mass grave'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... -iraq-isis
Kurdish rebels help rescue besieged Yazidi refugees from Iraq mountain
More than 20,000 of the 40,000 people trapped by jihadists on a mountaintop in northern Iraq have escaped in the past 24 hours


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 08:43 
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^^^

seeing ISIS butchery on twitter, youtube, and other sites online reminds me of what our forefathers and ancestors went through. I don't think it's anything especially cruel or unusual by Islamic standards. there are vivid descriptions directly by Islamics about their glorious deeds in our own country. they proclaim them quite proudly, too. and it is also a reminder to not willfully disempower non-muslim societies from fighting Jihad, no matter how ruthless the tactics, or how heavy the collateral damage. because it is justified. yes, if the eventually result of all Muslim societies where Muslims are in power is the "true Islam" that always seems to rear its head, then I don't want my civilization to be laid waste tomorrow because we were all to weak today and twiddling our thumbs about collateral. when the enemy doesn't recognize the same standards, we cannot hold the same. at least not against that enemy.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 08:47 
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The only weapon against "true Islamic" lunatic is complete, assured and swift destruction, each time it rears its head, with absolutely no mercy shown in any form.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 10:26 
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You need Jehadi tactics against Jehadists. Match Brutality with brutality.
For each stone, throw a brick back and a bigger stone and a hand grenade if possible. Escalate to irrational level.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 10:34 
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Yep. Another thing is to do to them what they do to our idols. They destroy idols as a display of power. Psychologically, it diminishes the power of the idol and makes you powerless.

Islamic "idols" are their thought leaders. The moment a leader calls for violence against any "kaffir", s/he must be arranged to be killed in the most barbaric way possible. Doing so will destroy their confidence, and it must be done consistently.


Last edited by LokeshC on 11 Aug 2014 10:39, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 10:39 
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even the poster boy sickular jahanpannah Akbar himself oversaw the execution of 30,000 captives including civilians after the siege of Chittor, not to speak of forcing another few thousand women and children to commit Jauhar to escape slavery and worse. the fire blackened basement of the fort is still there to this day I believe.

> If the road to Irbil is closed, then they’ll take the road to Aleppo or Damascus which the Americans and British will be less willing to bomb or defend

so this again an effort to 'shape' the ISIS into directions that define them as 'good islamists' (smack iran, smack assad) and away from 'bad islamists' (smack baghdad, or irbil or israel). its like training a king cobra to bite only a selected set of people :D

the difficulties of the yazidis would have been blacked out in MSM if not served as a convenient hook..such things have happened for months to any shias unlucky enough to fall prey to ISIS. reports speak of 100s of women in mosul itself imprisoned in schools and used as concubines by the ISIS singles scene.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 11:17 
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^The question is when this filth arrives at our borders (and sooner or later they will in some form or the other), what will we do and what will we do to their sympathizers within our borders? Will we be ready in heart and mind to deal with them and these sympathizers using the same ruthlessness and brutality that they have shown?

I think its time now to steel our resolve and numb our sensitivities. We must cease to view these scums as humans. We must learn to deal with them as vermin.

Most successful civilizations existed in the past because they were capable of far more ruthlessness and cruelty than the barbarians they faced. It will be no different for us.

Civilization and culture does not mean soft and indecisive.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 11:59 
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The temple at lalish valley in Iraq, where the yazidis are exterminated .
I have seen lamps like that in Tamilnadu.. jasmine flowers on the ladys hair... seems like a south indian woman?


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 12:30 
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^^ wow, is that for real?


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 12:50 
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satya wrote:
Was watching a clip of Vice News piece on ISIS ( link via zerohedge ) and in very beginnnin of the clip clearly heard '' Idher bhi aa jao , aa jao , hum yahan per hein ( come here. here , we are here ).Very clear hindi/urdu sentence .


Yeah I noticed that too. Surely some Pakistani (hopefully).


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 13:22 
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Agnimitra wrote:
^^ wow, is that for real?


yes

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this is another angle.. It is from lalish, temple city of Yazidis.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2014 13:24 
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Agnimitra wrote:
^^ wow, is that for real?

yes :eek:

https://www.facebook.com/253083980614/p ... =3&theater


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