Understanding Islamic Society

[Singha]

there is a new trend in facebook of people sharing pix of islamic executions and demanding the same for rapists in india.

I think their enthu for the same will cool when the real baggage of such systems + corrupt officials hits home and the system is used to settle scores on innocent people.

typical brainless facebook idiots....I have kind of abandoned that place - over run by ads and idiots of every stripe...its no longer possible to communicate with just a few friends now without the whole world piling in.

[shiv]

shiv ji,
to an extent "secular" science has dismissed religious knowledge perhaps for very similar reasons as some among us try to insist that it is possible for a Muslim to be "secular". Strictly phrased, the question more rigorously is "is it possible for a human to be both Muslim and secular?"

When we use the more double-edged "Muslim can be secular", we are trying to consciously make a counter brainwashing that even if one has found himself born into a Muslim family, he/she can still disassociate from that circumstantial label. The argument goes that if we do not make such a claim - we are effectively reinforcing the Islamic's claim of Islam and secular behaviour/thought process being mutually exclusive.

I am not personally a great fan of this line - for it does not work. When it does work, it works not because of the power of the idea - but because it is backed up by coercion and counter punishment threats.

My response here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1446999

[RajeshA]

One is the fact that male children stay in female company for the first 4-5 years of life. Suckling may continue longer than usual to comfort the child. This might explain the ridiculous Saudi injunction about suckling from your lactating female colleague to make your relationship legitimate rather than adulterous.

In West Germany, Germans too keep their children longer at home than say in East Germany. So do many Turks and other Muslims. Whereas in East Germany, often the children start going to kindergarten when they are 1 year old, Turks and others send their children with 2 or 3 and many choose to send their children directly to school, as school is compulsory while kindergarten is not!

What often happens is that often Turkish and Arab boys in primary school are not able to properly interconnect with other children, are far more aggressive, are quite impolite towards women teachers, and hardly understand German or are able to follow other subjects.

This situation actually does not change over the course of their whole studies, where in education they are always under-achievers and either because of it or in spite of it try to establish themselves in other areas where they can show dominance! They make a virtue out of necessity, and feel proud that they are not some book worms!

When they finish school, it also shows up in the kinds of employment they take!

There are similar patterns to be found all over the West, where Muslim children grow amidst Western children, and even in Muslim majority schools the standards are not much higher.

Even when there are mixed friends circles, the Muslim child would not swerve from the centrality of his Muslim identity and the preeminence of its prescriptions except in the case of enjoyment. All other children would have to accept the Muslim child's separate identity or allow themselves to be weaned into being receptive to it for themselves too. So basically despite a requirement to integrate with the others, the Muslim child is still able to stand his own and assert his Islamic identity.

But after 5 the child is thrown into male company where size and age rules. The general rule in Arab society, and, it apears to me, Islamic society is "Me against you, me and you against out father/neighbour. Me you and neighbour against the next village. Me you and our village against someone else."

That is the general rule! We often forget that the dynamic is different, and the purpose of this tussle is also different and in fact sanctioned by the community.

Whereas others start looking at ways to settle the matter peacefully or we try to look for which child was at fault, and once we have found the child who was at fault we try to coerce the child to apologize, in Islamic societies the tussle is for the purpose of the child learning of how to align himself according to the above tribal rule you mentioned and in case the jostle is against non-believer kids then the aim is to show who dominates and the matter would be allowed to be blown up and with other Muslim children joining in until the non-believer relents, is humiliated or is severely punished.

The resolution of the matter is not based on right or wrong, who started first, on cooling things down, but rather on the Muslim kid getting his way!

It is part of the training!

[dada]

Shiv

QUOTE : "Once you instil certain beliefs very deeply into a child as the child's first memories and earliest knowledge, it is difficult to erase without causing great discomfort from cognitive dissonance."

This works like this. Imagine a local train entering a station. Passengers struggle to get inside the train. But once they get inside , they block the entry of new passengers into the train at same/all subsequent stations until they reach their destination!
Here new passengers are similar to new notions,ideas that you are exposed to as you increasingly interact with other cultures over a time period.

[Lilo]

Iraqi TV Debate: Is the Earth Flat?

A debate between an Iraqi "Researcher on Astronomy" and a physicist on Iraqi television.

The verse in question is in the Qur'an, 79:30. The word daḥāhā (دَحَىٰهَا) does not mean "egg-shaped" nor "spherical." For all ignorant Muslims who think it does, please see these two articles:
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp? ... 9&verse=30
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index ... d&Id=92448

[Mukesh.Kumar]

Even if you ..... if she tries to spot check you ... on some of the shariah points .....

+1 to that. Was extremely surprised, but now I understand where it was coming from. Rajeshji and your posts put together make a lot of sense

[RajeshA]

E.g., Uncircumcised men's penises are full of germs, while circumcised penises are scientifically shown to reduce the risk of even HIV - a sign from God - this is taught in classrooms in Islamic countries. Even among the circumcised men, Islamic men perform istinja and other purificatory practices after excretory functions, or after sex. In the mind of women brought up in that culture, all this makes a Moslem man a far cleaner sexual partner - apart from his healthy, manly sex appetite. Even if you do sleep with an adventurous Moslem lady, don't be surprised if she tries to spot check you during pillow talk on some of the shariah points around sexual hygiene.

Medically speaking, circumcision really helps only in cultures and cases where men do not have the habit of cleaning their penises regularly and especially after sexual intercourse.

Otherwise circumcision has zero benefits and only downsides.

1. It is not a substitute for cleaning the penis.
2. It does not prevent HIV/AIDS as some claim.
3. It does not give the man more pleasure, as the foreskin is the most sensitive and erogenous part, and thus decreases penile sensitivity.
4. It causes orgasm and penile erection difficulties among men.
5. It leaves behind a certain trauma among men.
6. It does not give the woman more pleasure.
7. In fact it causes women with circumcised spouses on the average more sexual function difficulties overall, orgasm difficulties, lubrication insufficiency, dyspareunia and vaginismus.

Medical Studies on Circumcision

Journal of the British Association of Urological Surgeons, BJU Int. 2013 May; 111(5):820-7



Male circumcision decreases penile sensitivity as measured in a large cohort.
Authors: Bronselaer GA, Schober JM, Meyer-Bahlburg HF, T'sjoen G, Vlietinck R, Hoebeke PB.
Source
Department of Urology, Ghent University Hospital, Ghent, Belgium.

ABSTRACT
WHAT'S KNOWN ON THE SUBJECT? AND WHAT DOES THE STUDY ADD?: The sensitivity of the foreskin and its importance in erogenous sensitivity is widely debated and controversial. This is part of the actual public debate on circumcision for non-medical reason. Today some studies on the effect of circumcision on sexual function are available. However they vary widely in outcome. The present study shows in a large cohort of men, based on self-assessment, that the foreskin has erogenous sensitivity. It is shown that the foreskin is more sensitive than the uncircumcised glans mucosa, which means that after circumcision genital sensitivity is lost. In the debate on clitoral surgery the proven loss of sensitivity has been the strongest argument to change medical practice. In the present study there is strong evidence on the erogenous sensitivity of the foreskin. This knowledge hopefully can help doctors and patients in their decision on circumcision for non-medical reason.

OBJECTIVES:
To test the hypothesis that sensitivity of the foreskin is a substantial part of male penile sensitivity. To determine the effects of male circumcision on penile sensitivity in a large sample.

SUBJECTS AND METHODS:
The study aimed at a sample size of ≈1000 men. Given the intimate nature of the questions and the intended large sample size, the authors decided to create an online survey. Respondents were recruited by means of leaflets and advertising.

RESULTS:
The analysis sample consisted of 1059 uncircumcised and 310 circumcised men. For the glans penis, circumcised men reported decreased sexual pleasure and lower orgasm intensity. They also stated more effort was required to achieve orgasm, and a higher percentage of them experienced unusual sensations (burning, prickling, itching, or tingling and numbness of the glans penis). For the penile shaft a higher percentage of circumcised men described discomfort and pain, numbness and unusual sensations. In comparison to men circumcised before puberty, men circumcised during adolescence or later indicated less sexual pleasure at the glans penis, and a higher percentage of them reported discomfort or pain and unusual sensations at the penile shaft.

CONCLUSIONS:
This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population. Before circumcision without medical indication, adult men, and parents considering circumcision of their sons, should be informed of the importance of the foreskin in male sexuality.

International Journal of Epidemiology 2011;40:1367–1381

Male circumcision and sexual function in men and women: a survey-based, cross-sectional study in Denmark
Authors: Morten Frisch¹, Morten Lindholm¹ and Morten Grønbæk²

¹ Department of Epidemiology Research, Statens Serum Institut, DK-2300 Copenhagen S, Denmark and
² National Institute of Public Health, DK-1353 Copenhagen K, Denmark

Background
One-third of the world’s men are circumcised, but little is known about possible sexual consequences of male circumcision. In Denmark (5% circumcised), we examined associations of male circumcision with a range of sexual measures in both sexes.

Methods
Participants in a national health survey (n¼5552) provided information about their own (men) or their spouse’s (women) circumcision status and details about their sex lives. Logistic regression-derived odds ratios (ORs) measured associations of circumcision status with sexual experiences and current difficulties with sexual desire, sexual needs fulfilment and sexual functioning.

Results
Age at first intercourse, perceived importance of a good sex life and current sexual activity differed little between circumcised and uncircumcised men or between women with circumcised and uncircumcised spouses. However, circumcised men reported more partners and were more likely to report frequent orgasm difficulties after adjustment for potential confounding factors [11 vs 4%, ORadj 3.26; 95% confidence interval (CI) 1.42–7.47], and women with circumcised spouses more often reported incomplete sexual needs fulfilment (38 vs 28%, ORadj 2.09; 95% CI 1.05–4.16) and frequent sexual function difficulties overall (31 vs 22%, ORadj 3.26; 95% CI 1.15–9.27), notably orgasm difficulties (19 vs 14%, ORadj 2.66; 95% CI 1.07–6.66) and dyspareunia (12 vs 3%, ORadj 8.45; 95% CI 3.01–23.74). Findings were stable in several robustness analyses, including one restricted to non-Jews and non-Moslems.

Conclusions
Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in women, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment. Thorough examination of these matters in areas where male circumcision is more common is warranted.

[dada]

and now some PHILOSOPHY from the pakis ...........

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 013_pg12_9

Epistemology the real difference between West and Islam (both being mutually incompatible)

where his major arguments are
1. the prophet's revelation is the supreme source of ALL KNOWLEDGE
2. concept of oneness of god in islam gives man a larger than life picture (which enables man to see everything else as tools,means.secondary
to satisfy man's real aspirations)
3. human reason is limited & cannot be the sole source of knowledge, emancipation & salvation
4. spiritual perspective on the meaning of human life negates western concepts of man,universe,self (limited by its purely materialistic view)

[RajeshA]

dada ji,

just a suggestion.

> Put all links with labels, except if they are from Paki publications.
> If from Paki publication, put the link in code tags
> If the link is from dailytimes.com, correct the backward slashes to forward slashes.

[RajeshA]

QUOTE : "Once you instil certain beliefs very deeply into a child as the child's first memories and earliest knowledge, it is difficult to erase without causing great discomfort from cognitive dissonance."

This works like this. Imagine a local train entering a station. Passengers struggle to get inside the train. But once they get inside , they block the entry of new passengers into the train at same/all subsequent stations until they reach their destination!
Here new passengers are similar to new notions,ideas that you are exposed to as you increasingly interact with other cultures over a time period.

This is in fact a very good analogy!

[AbhiJ]

Islamic Dictionary

[ramana]

The Boston Bombers travel into Islamism is a good guide to how it operates.

[RajeshA]

Sadistic Streak in Islam: the Murder of Sarabjit

Jail officials involved in attack on Sarabjit, alleges sister

The brutal assault on Sarabjit Singh, who is in "deep coma", was not possible without the involvement of jail authorities in Lahore and Pakistan should take immediate action against the perpetrators of the attack, his family said on Sunday.

"This is not possible without the involvement of the jail authorities," the Indian death row convict's sister Dalbir Kaur said in Amritsar before crossing over to Pakistan to meet 49-year-old Sarabjit who is battling for his life in a Lahore hospital after the brutal assault by jail inmates on Friday.

"Pakistan should take immediate action against the perpetrators of the attack on Sarabjit," she said.

The Pakistan High Commission in Delhi has issued 15 days 'gratis visa' to Sarabjit's wife Sukhpreet Kaur, daughters Poonam, Swapandeep Kaur and Dalbir Kaur to meet the Indian prisoner who is in "deep coma" and has been put on ventilator support.

Dalbir Kaur said, "Sarabjit had been stabbed with knives and someone must have told the jail inmates that all these were available in the prison. This had been intentionally done to Sarabjit.

"I am not ready to believe that they grabbed the keys from the jail warden. I think the warden himself gave the keys and they made most of that opportunity. Why his barrack was changed at the time when other Pakistani prisoners were having food," she asked.

Kaur recalled that when she had gone to meet Sarabjit in the jail, the prison authorities had not even allowed to carry her handkerchief. The food items she was carrying for her brother were checked after tearing the packets, she said.

Sarabjit was convicted for alleged involvement in a string of bomb attacks in Punjab province in Pakistan, that killed 14 people in 1990. His mercy petitions were rejected by the courts and former president Pervez Musharraf.

His family says he is a victim of mistaken identity and had inadvertently strayed across the border.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh termed the assault on Sarabjit inside jail as a "very sad" incident. "It is very sad. I think in the jail, I think some inmates attacked him. I think that is very sad," he has said.

Published on Apr 30 2013
Pakistan spurns India plea to release Sarabjit: New Indian Express

The medical board formed by Pakistan’s Punjab provincial government to supervise the treatment of Sarabjit, has apparently said that there was no requirement for the Indian national to be transferred abroad.

Sarabjit’s sister, Dalbir Kaur, who has been demanding that her brother should be brought back to India for treatment, was highly critical of Pakistan’s refusal.

There is a strong streak of sadistic voyeurism in Islam. The sight of Kāfir pleading for mercy can make many a Islamic heart flutter with excitement. Usually instead of responding with mercy, the Islamic would tend to increase the level of pain, so that the pleading increasing.

Ultimately it is the power to give mercy to others that fascinates the Islamic mind. Whether to give in to the repeated pleas or to refuse really depends on the powerlessness of the Islamics. If the Islamic has had true power over the Kuffār lately, then the urge for revenge, the urge for more satisfaction in the pain of the other would be somewhat less and he would be willing to monetize some mercy from his side into glory of Islam and of the largehearted Islamics. However if the Islamic has had only a life of inferiority viz-a-viz the Kuffār, then his urge for sadism would be much much greater and it is highly unlikely he would yield to pleas of mercy. In fact each plea would only nourish his ego even more!

Pakistanis are in the lowest ditches of self-esteem, so as per Islamic logic, it is natural they would seek the maximum satisfaction in their sadistic act of denying mercy, and relishing the repeated pleas by desperate relatives and well-wishers.

The whole attack on Sarabjit was planned to satisfy the sadistic demand of a whole Islamic nation of Pakistan!

[RajeshA]

Sadistic Streak in Islam: the Defilement of Sarabjit

Published on May 3, 2013
Vital organs missing in Sarabjit’s body: Second autopsy report

Even as outrage poured in India against the brutal killing of Sarabjit Singh, new revelation might aggravate the relation between the two countries. A second autopsy was conducted at Patti Hospital in Amritsar to ascertain the cause of death and to cross-check the claims of Pakistan over the same and the time of death which found vital organs like heart, kidneys and stomach were missing from the body.

A panel of five doctors, consisting of heads of the departments of Forensic, Anaesthesia, Orthopaedics, Surgery and Pathology from Amritsar Medical College, conducted the post-mortem of Sarabjit’s body on Thursday night.

According to sources the panel found vital organs like heart, kidneys and stomach missing from the body of Sarabjit.

This will make the autopsy exercise in India grossly inconclusive, said doctors, raising further questions marks over the intentions and conduct of Pakistan in the case of Sarabjit, who was brutally assaulted inside the Kot Lakhpat Jail.

On Thursday, a six-member Pakistani medical board performed the autopsy of Sarabjit Singh, 49, at the Jinnah Hospital in Lahore, before handing over the body to the Indian officials, media reports said.

Defilement of an "enemy's" body is actually an old tradition in Islam. Here some tidbits.

Anthropoetics- The Journal of Generative Anthropology, Volume 12, no. 2 (Fall 2006 / Winter 2007)

Mujahideen Desecration: Beheadings, Mutilation & Muslim Iconoclasm
Author: Dawn Perlmutter¹

¹ Symbol & Ritual Intelligence

An Iraqi priest, Father Paul Alexander, was disemboweled, had his arms and legs severed while he was alive before he was beheaded in one of the more disturbing responses to the Popes statements.

One of the most heinous examples of body desecration occurred in al-Yusufiyah outside of Baghdad, Iraq. On June 20, 2006 the bodies of Pfc. Kristian Menchaca, 23, and Pfc. Thomas L. Tucker, 25, members of the 101st Airborne division, were found mutilated beyond recognition. Not only were the bodies mutilated and booby-trapped, but IED’s lined the road leading to the victims and it took troops 12 hours to clear the area of the bombs. There were varied initial reports of the details of the injuries. The O'Reilly Factor reported that they were hacked to death, their eyes gouged out and their bodies defiled. E.D. Hill in a Fox and Friends video reported that their penises were cut off and shoved into their mouths, their ears and noses were cut off, and then they were finally killed. Afterward, their hearts were cut out.

[Agnimitra]

Bestselling Turkish Writer is receiving death threats, after she took her veil off

Famous Bestselling Turkish Writer is receiving death threats because she decided to uncover her head…

The activist, Rabia Kazan, a columnist for 5 years in Ortadoğu Gazetesi, which is a nationalist Turkish newspaper, and the author of a book titled "Tahran Melekleri" (Angels of Tehran) in which she reviewed temporary marriage in Iran, (a sort of legal prostitution) has been receiving serious death threats from the Fanatic Islamic Community after making her decision to not wear a headscarf, which she was forced to wear by her mother in her childhood. Having gone to the Turkish Police Department, Rabia Kazan declared.

"The headscarf was a decision of my mother and when I uncovered my head, I felt freedom for the first time in my life."

Arguing that there is no verse for wearing headscarves in the Quran, Kazan has faced heavy criticism also in her country due to her thoughts. Her own father attacked her house with stones. Kazan who worked voluntarily at WFUNA, a human rights association of United Nations, claims that headscarves were used due to geographical conditions before Islam by both Arabic women and men as a custom. Conducting studies on Women Rights in Islam, Kazan explained why she uncovered her head and what has changed in her life since then.

If a person has gotten used to seeing life through a single window, and worse, was stuck with the idea that no other windows exist, then they live through rigidity, blindness, dogma or whatever you call it, through a "pitiful" persistence. My philosophical struggle was quite difficult due to conditions beyond my power... Due to the divorce of my parents, ultraconservative views of my mother's family and conditions that cannot be overcome by a small child; I was a believer of truths I wasn't allowed to choose. I was forcefully introduced to the head scarf at a very early age by my mother.

...

During the first years of wearing a headscarf, I used to feel like my head was stuck up inside a nylon bag, and I heard humming. I had those fearful moments when the needles came loose, wondering if the needle would prick my throat. So I would at times take off the headscarf secretly when my mother was not watching. But one day when I got caught by my mother she subjected me to an unforgettably painful beating.

Change was painful in this respect. But when I came to America, first of all I started to swim to my heart’s content... It was such regret for me not to have done it for so long that I didn't want to get out of the swimming pool before I swam for two hours every night...

I suffered from vitamin D deficiency since my skin didn't get enough sunlight by then and this normally causes serious illnesses, weakness and mental fatigue. I sunbathed a lot. Then I tied my hair in a pony-tail and played tennis under the blue sky with my white tennis clothes on. I cannot tell you how good it felt. Then I fulfilled my dream of growing nails and putting on red nail polish, which was a personal remembrance to me. I had met a woman in my trip to Iran who was forced to put her hands into a bag full of insects just because she had put on red nail polish... Whenever I put on red nail polish, I still remember that woman with sadness...

Now I am free and believe that God has no problem with the hair on my head, He will not burn me in his Hell for this reason, He holds us with much more mercy and kindness than we think, and that being "a good person" is much more important than wearing a dark veil.

[Agnimitra]

Tarek Fatah says that calling Islamofascist fedayeen jihad of the {Paki Maudoodi vriety as "terrorism" is a calumny on other forms of terrorism.

"Islamic Terrorism has just one demand--Death"



(He also expresses shock that India isn't in a state of emergency over the DBO incursion.)

[RajeshA]

Carl ji,

this speech by Tarek Fatah was indeed a good one! Impressive in fact!

Basically what he is saying is
Terrorism is committed by non-Muslims for political goals.
What (Maududian) Islam, i.e. Islamofascism, commits cannot be called terrorism, but has to called out as (Ideological) War which uses Terror as a means (out of tradition, sadism and strategy).

[Agnimitra]

^^^ RajeshA ji,

Yes. But while Fatah ji draws an interesting distinction, it psychologically follows that any ideology based on anger, grievance or hostility will eventually devolve into or be sucked into a death-cult, because it carries within itself a death-wish - for the Other, and thereby for its Self. Therefore, it is not surprising that in the larger picture, many other ideologies that have a definite preference for terrorist methods are seen to be concubines in Islamofascism's capacious harem - or they are convenient partners in other ways, even though mutual friction is part of their embrace. E.g., Communism, Hanism, Khalistanism, etc.

[RajeshA]

Reasons for Islamofaschism

Tarek Fatah uses the term Islamofaschism. Now one can equate Islamofascism with Islam, an Islam in which the follower has moved further along the purity axis, but this does not explain why the follower moved in that direction.

There are of course different reasons for Islamofascism becoming more dominant in an Islamic society, depending on its history, constitution and circumstances.

The reasons could be a

1. Religious Reaction to Secularism (Muslims in West) - quick way of Earning Islamic Capital, sawab, compensating for past irreligiosity.
2. Ajlafi Reaction to Ashrafism (Punjabi Taliban)
3. Communist Reaction to Elite (Arab Spring)
4. Racist Reaction to Ajlaf Elitism (Pushtun Taliban)
5. Doctrinal Reaction to Civilizational Angst (Uyghurs, Al Qaeda)
6. Memetic Reaction to Kufr Weakness (Islamic Expansionism, Ethnic Cleansing in Pakistan)

[ramana]

If we step back and look at history, we see that political Islam took a strident tone with the defeat of Turkic power in the Islamist world. In 1680s Ottomon Turkey got defeated at Vienna and went into terminal decline eventually leading to the demise after World War I. In India the Mughals also known as Chagatai Turks, went into decline after the debilitating Mughal wars with Marathas in Deccan. This decline led to a resurgence of re-Arabisation of Islam which is very extremist in outlook being very literalist in outlook.

The problem the world faces is to stop the reversion of political Islam in order to halt the terrorist surge from the Islamic political world.


On way is to have the KSA, de-Wahabize themselves and declare the Wahabis and Deobandis as Kharjites and make them irrelevant. Or need an external force like the Mongols who killed and destroyed the Assasins and ended the scourge.

[akashganga]

If we step back and look at history, we see that political Islam took a strident tone with the defeat of Turkic power in the Islamist world. In 1680s Ottomon Turkey got defeated at Vienna and went into terminal decline eventually leading to the demise after World War I. In India the Mughals also known as Chagatai Turks, went into decline after the debilitating Mughal wars with Marathas in Deccan. This decline led to a resurgence of re-Arabisation of Islam which is very extremist in outlook being very literalist in outlook.

The problem the world faces is to stop the reversion of political Islam in order to halt the terrorist surge from the Islamic political world.


On way is to have the KSA, de-Wahabize themselves and declare the Wahabis and Deobandis as Kharjites and make them irrelevant. Or need an external force like the Mongols who killed and destroyed the Assasins and ended the scourge.

There is no way to reform islam. Wahabism and Deobandism are just destrcations. What wahabism and deobandism represent are true islam. There is only one permanent solution for this. Some kind of major event which results in major changes in the attitudes of arab people towards islam. Trying to humanize non-arab muslims specially of the indian subcontinent is idotic.

[ramana]

The Kharjites also claimed to be true Islam.

The re-Arabisation of Islam is the real problem even for KSA. True the shadow of Arabs on Islam was always there but after Turkic collapse it has reasserted as a monster and is devouring the world.
One can than the British for helping revive it and legitimizing it for their transitory geopolitical needs.

[akashganga]

The Kharjites also claimed to be true Islam.

The re-Arabisation of Islam is the real problem even for KSA. True the shadow of Arabs on Islam was always there but after Turkic collapse it has reasserted as a monster and is devouring the world.
One can than the British for helping revive it and legitimizing it for their transitory geopolitical needs.

ramanaji,

It does not matter whether it is Kharjites, or shias, or sunnis. Koran was written by arabic speaking founder and comes from the arabic culture/traditions of that time. When you say re-arabisation of islam it makes no sense as islam is by arabs (of that time), for arabs, of arabs. There is no scope for reform in islamism.

[RajeshA]

akashganga ji,

what ramana garu is saying that some other non-Arab power should take the reins over how Islam evolves.

Anyway, the focus here is not so much transnational politics of Islam!

[RajeshA]

One way is to have the KSA, de-Wahabize themselves and declare the Wahabis and Deobandis as Kharjites and make them irrelevant. Or need an external force like the Mongols who killed and destroyed the Assasins and ended the scourge.

Answered here!

[akashganga]

akashganga ji,

what ramana garu is saying that some other non-Arab power should take the reins over how Islam evolves.

Anyway, the focus here is not so much transnational politics of Islam!

Rajeshji,

My 2 cents.

A non-arab power taking over islam is impossible. Everything about islam, its founder, its religions texts are in arabic. There is no scope for reform in islam. Islam cannot stand reason or debate.

[ramana]

The Turks from Seljuk to Ottomon took over Islam for over 8 centuries (800 to 1600). This current morass is due to the defeat of the Turks everywhere by the Europeans. Into the vacuum the Wahabandis have jumped in and taken over.

[Agnimitra]

ramana ji,

I don't think "Arabization" is the right word. The first Ummayad dynasty was pretty liberal in many ways (by Islamic standards, that is). OTOH, after the de facto crushing of Arab-Islamic power by the Mongols, the resurgence was under the ideology of people like Ibn Taimiyyah - which is practically Kharijite philosophy with spit and polish. Similarly, in order to come closer and closer to the power center of Islamic civilization, people like the Turks were the most zealous jihadis for centuries. As successive 'Slave dynasties', they each craved the title of ghazi. In fact India was a hunting ground for Turks to get ghazi medals. Refer even the chronicles of Ibn Batutah - of how during his visit the sultan Muhammad Tughlaq slaughtered 50 Hindus in Delhi everyday just to impress his guest. Its exactly like how Pakis are today - and if there is an ethnicity that is poised to take over the mantle of political leadership either directly or by proxy, it is the Pakjabis - by virtue of sheer demographics, talent, and jihadism. On the other end of the competition is neo-Ottoman Turk resurgence. At both ends, one finds that the British have deep links and British converts are sheikhs.

The fact is that Islamism operates in only a couple of conditions, depending on whether it looms over the designated adversary or whether it doesn't - rukhsat (liberal) and taqwa (conservative).

[akashganga]

The Turks from Seljuk to Ottomon took over Islam for over 8 centuries (800 to 1600). This current morass is due to the defeat of the Turks everywhere by the Europeans. Into the vacuum the Wahabandis have jumped in and taken over.

Turks may have taken over islam but islam is still arabic. That is because islam is what it was at the beginning koran, and life of their prophet. During 800 to 1600 indic civilization suffered maximum from islam. Tens of millions of hindus were slaughtered during that period. That period saw wiping out of hinduism and buddhism from afganisthan, baluchistan, and other parts of the indian subcontinent.

[RajeshA]

Expanding on previous post

Reasons for Islamofaschism

Tarek Fatah uses the term Islamofaschism. Now one can equate Islamofascism with Islam, an Islam in which the follower has moved further along the purity axis, but this does not explain why the follower moved in that direction.

There are of course different reasons for Islamofascism becoming more dominant in an Islamic society, depending on its history, constitution and circumstances.

The reasons could be a

1. Religious Reaction to Secularism (Muslims in West) - quick way of Earning Islamic Capital, sawab, compensating for past irreligiosity.
2. Ajlafi Reaction to Ashrafism (Punjabi Taliban)
3. Communist Reaction to Elite (Arab Spring)
4. Racist Reaction to Ajlaf Elitism (Pushtun Taliban)
5. Doctrinal Reaction to Civilizational Angst (Uyghurs, Al Qaeda)
6. Memetic Reaction to Kufr Weakness (Islamic Expansionism, Ethnic Cleansing in Pakistan)
7. Neo Convert's Reaction to Peer Pressure to Prove Loyalty (Malik Kafur, ...) [Added]

[akashganga]

Expanding on previous post

Reasons for Islamofaschism

Tarek Fatah uses the term Islamofaschism. Now one can equate Islamofascism with Islam, an Islam in which the follower has moved further along the purity axis, but this does not explain why the follower moved in that direction.

There are of course different reasons for Islamofascism becoming more dominant in an Islamic society, depending on its history, constitution and circumstances.

The reasons could be a

1. Religious Reaction to Secularism (Muslims in West) - quick way of Earning Islamic Capital, sawab, compensating for past irreligiosity.
2. Ajlafi Reaction to Ashrafism (Punjabi Taliban)
3. Communist Reaction to Elite (Arab Spring)
4. Racist Reaction to Ajlaf Elitism (Pushtun Taliban)
5. Doctrinal Reaction to Civilizational Angst (Uyghurs, Al Qaeda)
6. Memetic Reaction to Kufr Weakness (Islamic Expansionism, Ethnic Cleansing in Pakistan)
7. Neo Convert's Reaction to Peer Pressure to Prove Loyalty (Malik Kafur, ...) [Added]

RajeshAJi,

This is a good breakdown of various causes which could lead to the so called islamofascism. Actually islamofascism is true islam as all the ideologies and strategies used by jehadis comes from the original islam source of koran, hadith, etc. The so called islamofascists are true islamists or muslims who practice the true commandments of islam. The non-islamofascists are not true islamists/muslims as they do not follow the commandments of islam.

[ramana]

Now we understand the sympathy for the Nazis that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem felt?

[RajeshA]

Racism in Islam

Published on Dec 04, 2008
By Jamie Glazov
Allah’s White Faces: FrontPageMagazine.com

Frontpage Interview’s guest is Abul Kasem, an ex-Muslim who is the author of hundreds of articles and several books on Islam including, Women in Islam. He was a contributor to the book Leaving Islam – Apostates Speak Out as well as to Beyond Jihad: Critical Views From Inside Islam. His latest contribution is in Why We Left Islam published by WND Books.

Let us refer to another law of Sharia. This law enforces the supremacy of the white Quraysh Arabs to subjugate all people on earth to their rule. The Sharia law (ibid) cited here stipulates that no other men, even when Muslims, could marry any Arab women. In some Arab countries, this is the law and there is severe punishment if a man from another Islamic country (such as a Muslim man from Bangladesh) marries a Saudi Arabian woman. If he commits such a grave crime (marrying an Arab woman) he might be subjected to harsh punishment and immediate deportation.

Law m4.2 The following are not suitable matches for one another:

(1) A non-Arab man for an Arab woman (O: because of the hadith that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: “Allah has chosen the Arabs above others”). (ibid)

Kasem: Well, Ibn Sa’d said: Abd al–wahhab Ibn ‘Ata al–‘Ijli informed us on the authority of Sai’d Ibn Abi ‘Aribiah, he on the authority of Qatadh: he said: It has been mentioned to us that the Prophet said: When God wants to raise a prophet He chooses the best tribe of the people and then He chooses the best man (Ibn Sa’d, p.1.8 ).

Sahih Bukhari (4.56.704) confirms that Allah has chosen the Quraysh Arabs as His agent to rule the world (Islamic Caliphate).

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 704:

Narrated Muhammad bin Jubair bin Mut'im:

That while he was with a delegation from Quraish to Muawiya, the latter heard the news that 'Abdullah bin 'Amr bin Al-'As said that there would be a king from the tribe of Qahtan. On that Muawiya became angry, got up and then praised Allah as He deserved, and said, "Now then, I have heard that some men amongst you narrate things which are neither in the Holy Book, nor have been told by Allah's Apostle. Those men are the ignorant amongst you. Beware of such hopes as make the people go astray, for I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'Authority of ruling will remain with Quraish, and whoever bears hostility to them, Allah will destroy him as long as they abide by the laws of the religion.'"

FP: How about some historical evidence of Islam’s disdain for black people?

Kasem: Abd. Rahman b. Awf called Bilal the son of a black woman (Tabari, vii.59).

Umar had a profound dislike for black people (Tabari, xii.11).

Tabari writes:

Among them, with Muawiyah b. Hudhayl, were young men of black complexion and straight hair. ‘Umar turned his face away from them several times until it was said to him: “Do you have anything against these people.” He said: “I am perplexed with regard to them. No Arab tribe more hateful to me than these has ever passed by me.” He then let them go, but he frequently mentioned them with hatred, and people were puzzled by ‘Umar’s view.

The Islamic racism is alive and well even today. Even notice the recent news report of Al Qaeda calling Obama a ‘house negro’.

What the scholars say on "Arab father refusing the proposal of non-Arab for his daughter":

Code: Select all

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD=3&ID=9426&CATE=443

This issue is known as the issue of suitability in marriage. What is meant by this is that a woman and her guardians have the right that she not be married off except to someone that is suitable for her. The scholars have differed in the characteristics that should be considered for suitability, but they have agreed that one of them is religions. This means that a corrupt man is not suitable for a religious woman. They have also differed as to whether lineage should be considered. So most of the scholars do consider this aspect for suitability, therefore a non-Arab is not suitable for an Arab. And a non-Qurayshi is not suitable for a Qurayshi woman. This means that if an Arab woman wants to refuse marriage to a non-Arab, she may, and her guardian can not force her. Also, the guardian can refuse an Arab woman's marriage to a non-Arab, if she wishes. But if an Arab girl is content, as well as he guardian, with marrying a non-Arab, it is perfectly permissible for them to marry and their marriage contract is valid. This is what most of the scholars have decided.

[RajeshA]

Racism in Islam

Published on Jan 25, 2008
By Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari
Muslim Brothers of Indian Subcontinent: It's Time for Homecoming

One must also take into account that the famous Salman the Persian, a distinguished convert of Muhammad, had to withdraw his desire to marry a daughter of Caliph Omar, because he was a non-Arab. It should be added here that Salman had saved Muhammad and his community, and, Islam, for that matter, in the Battle of the Ditch by giving Muhammad the idea of digging a trench surrounding his community as defence. Muhammad himself had thanked Salman for the saving the day for Islam and praised him and his people for their excellence in knowledge.

[Prem Kumar]

From Tarek Fatah's Twitter feed. Religion of Peace jai ho!

Syrian jihadi mutilates corpse of Shia soldier, cuts his heart out; eats it while chanting, 'Allah O Akbar'

[ramana]

Islam vs. Islamism

by Daniel Pipes
The Washington Times
May 13, 2013

http://www.meforum.org/pipes/12847/islam-vs-islamism


N.B.: Washington Times title: "Islam and its infidels"

What motives lay behind last month's Boston Marathon bombing and the would-be attack on a VIA Rail Canada train?

Leftists and establishmentarians variously offer imprecise and tired replies – such as "violent extremism" or anger at Western imperialism – unworthy of serious discussion. Conservatives, in contrast, engage in a lively and serious debate among themselves: some say Islam the religion provides motive, others say it's a modern extremist variant of the religion, known as radical Islam or Islamism.

As a participant in the latter debate, here's my argument for focusing on Islamism.

Cairo's Al-Azhar Mosque, completed in 972, represents one height of Muslim culture.

Those focusing on Islam itself as the problem (such as ex-Muslims like Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hirsi Ali) point to the consistency from Muhammad's life and the contents of the Koran and Hadith to current Muslim practice. Agreeing with Geert Wilders' film Fitna, they point to striking continuities between Koranic verses and jihad actions. They quote Islamic scriptures to establish the centrality of Muslim supremacism, jihad, and misogyny, concluding that a moderate form of Islam is impossible. They point to Turkish prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's deriding the very idea of a moderate Islam. Their killer question is, "Was Muhammad a Muslim or an Islamist?" They contend that we who blame Islamism do so out of political correctness or cowardliness.

To which, we reply: Yes, certain continuities do exist; and Islamists definitely follow the Koran and Hadith literally. Moderate Muslims exist but lack Islamists' near-hegemonic power. Erdoğan's denial of moderate Islam points to a curious overlap between Islamism and the anti-Islam viewpoint. Muhammad was a plain Muslim, not an Islamist, for the latter concept dates back only to the 1920s. And no, we are not cowardly but offer our true analysis.

And that analysis goes like this:

Islam is the fourteen-century-old faith of a billion-plus believers that includes everyone from quietist Sufis to violent jihadis. Muslims achieved remarkable military, economic, and cultural success between roughly 600 and 1200 c.e. Being a Muslim then meant belonging to a winning team, a fact that broadly inspired Muslims to associate their faith with mundane success. Those memories of medieval glory remain not just alive but central to believers' confidence in Islam and in themselves as Muslims.

The modern Muslim trauma begins: Napoleon at the Battle of the Pyramids, 1798, as imagined by Antoine-Jean Gros.

Major dissonance began around 1800, when Muslims unexpectedly lost wars, markets, and cultural leadership to Western Europeans. It continues today, as Muslims bunch toward the bottom of nearly every index of achievement. This shift has caused massive confusion and anger. What went wrong, why did God seemingly abandon His faithful? The unbearable divergence between premodern accomplishment and modern failure brought about trauma.

Muslims have responded to this crisis in three main ways. Secularists want Muslims to ditch the Shari'a (Islamic law) and emulate the West. Apologists also emulate the West but pretend that in doing so they are following the Shari'a. Islamists reject the West in favor of a retrograde and full application of the Shari'a.

Bernard Lewis published a book in 2001 titled What Went Wrong.

Islamists loathe the West because of its being tantamount to Christendom, the historic archenemy, and its vast influence over Muslims. Islamism inspires a drive to reject, defeat, and subjugate Western civilization. Despite this urge, Islamists absorb Western influences, including the concept of ideology. Indeed, Islamism represents the transformation of Islamic faith into a political ideology. Islamism accurately indicates an Islamic-flavored version of radical utopianism, an -ism like other -isms, comparable to fascism and communism. Aping those two movements, for example, Islamism relies heavily on conspiracy theories to interpret the world, on the state to advance its ambitions, and on brutal means to attain its goals.

Supported by 10-15 percent of Muslims, Islamism draws on devoted and skilled cadres who have an impact far beyond their limited numbers. It poses the threat to civilized life in Iran, Egypt, and not just on the streets of Boston but also in Western schools, parliaments, and courtrooms.

Our killer question is "How do you propose to defeat Islamism?" Those who make all Islam their enemy not only succumb to a simplistic and essentialist illusion but they lack any mechanism to defeat it. We who focus on Islamism see World War II and the Cold War as models for subduing the third totalitarianism. We understand that radical Islam is the problem and moderate Islam is the solution. We work with anti-Islamist Muslims to vanquish a common scourge. We will triumph over this new variant of barbarism so that a modern form of Islam can emerge.

Mr. Pipes (DanielPipes.org) is president of the Middle East Forum.



This text may be reposted or forwarded so long as it is presented as an integral whole with complete and accurate information provided about its author, date, place of publication, and original URL.

So from dark green to pale green isa path.

[RamaY]

Islam is the fourteen-century-old faith of a billion-plus believers that includes everyone from quietist Sufis to violent jihadis. Muslims achieved remarkable military, economic, and cultural success between roughly 600 and 1200 c.e. Being a Muslim then meant belonging to a winning team, a fact that broadly inspired Muslims to associate their faith with mundane success. Those memories of medieval glory remain not just alive but central to believers' confidence in Islam and in themselves as Muslims.

But they did receive a humiliating defeat in the hands of Christian west as well as Hindu Bharat. That should have balanced/removed the memories of medieval glory, or did they?

Or Islamists need an even more profound defeat before modern islamists can get to power?

[Prem]

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2013/05/1 ... l-comment/

A female anchor for a popular Malayalam-language television channel in the southern Indian state of Kerala is facing a firestorm of criticism after she called the Muslim practice of women wearing a veil “uncivilized” and a form of oppression.
Fousiya Musthafa, a Muslim woman herself, talked about the general plight of Muslim women on an India Vision TV program on April 9, 2013 saying the purdah, or practice of veiling and segregation of the sexes, is oppressive, especially for women who have been married living their lives like widows as their husbands are away from home working in the Middle East. She added:Even with all the modern facilities, in this hot summer here, these women have to wear the uncivilized purdah.About a quarter of the population in Kerala are Muslim and more than half are Hindu. The editor for India Vision has issued a hazy explanation that there was a misunderstanding with the script, with the editorial board overlooking some unnecessary lines in it.Muslim women in Kerala, who claims the highest literacy rate among other Muslim women in India, began to wear a veil only recently. Some 20 years ago, even though the dress of Muslim women had differences in color and method from other religious groups, it never was an all-covering purdah. Some observe that the influx of Kerala workers into the Middle East on their return has influenced this rise in purdah as a fashion wear in Kerala. Also, famous Kerala writer and poet Kamala Surayya's conversion to Islam during her later years and praise for the purdah may have given the veil a boost in popularity.
However, the rising trend has been met with resistance from some quarters of Kerala's Muslim women who did not want to adhere to such dress codes. Jameela K, mathematics teacher at Sullamussalam Oriental High School in Malappuram district was suspended because she refused to wear the purdah or the green overcoat as prescribed by the school.And aeronautical engineer Reihana Kazi sought out protection from the court after some of her relatives pleas for her to wear the purdah escalated to death threats.
After Fousia Musthafa's declarations on the veil, Facebook was flooded with virulent comments and posts against her, attacking her with expletives and verbally assaulting her. An Facebook post supporting purdah was written showering the journalist with verbal abuse and defaming her character, which was shared by 1,986 users.Sreeja Neyyattinkara protests [mal] against such attacks:Even if something is right or wrong, just because a woman said it, did any prophet give you the right to abuse her?Latheef Arinjira [mal] who shared the same post that has attacked the journalist pleads support:
sahodara vayikkuka…thalkalika labathin vendi samudayathinte acharangale publicil avahelicha indiavisioneyum athile curspondenna chettayekkethireyum prathshedikkuka
dear brother, please read this post. For temporary benefits our culture has been tarnished by this channel (India Vision). Please protest against this.
Most of the comments on FB were pure vitriol and cannot be reprinted. But, there were lone voices too defending purdah which took a more objective approach towards the issue,Jibjab is just the culture of a Muslim women. In earlier Kerala Muslim believers used to cover their heads. Its true that purdah is new and Kerala Muslims are trending more towards Islamic icons and cultures. But its within the constitution. From two pairs of clothes, we have now come to a point of many choices.Once women in Kerala couldn’t cover their upper torso and now they have reached a point of wearing jeans. Just like that, we cannot manipulate a women’s choices of wearing a jeans or purdah too. The sincerity of the anti-purdah supporters is very dubious and maybe that’s why believers are suspicious of the intentions and hence virulent.
Another FB post from Rejesh O Positive questioned [mal] where exactly is the choice in wearing religious attire:If someone is telling women that they have choices for clothing inside their religion, it's like telling people inside a jail that they have choices when it comes to wearing the clothing endorsed by the jail authorities.
In the Quran, it would appear that the Prophet had foreseen all this controversy:After my disappearance there will be no greater source of chaos and disorder for my nation than women.
It's true, considering the recent debate surrounding religious morals and women. Europe and the rest of the world is still smarting from feminist group FEMEN's fiery “International Topless Jihad Day” to raise awareness about Amina Tyler, a 19-year-old FEMEN member who sparked a massive uproar in Tunisia by posing topless with the slogan “****** Your Morals” written across her chest.
Activist and writer Arundhathi Roy wrote in an essay for Outlook India last year:Coercing a woman out of a burqa is not about liberating her, but about unclothing her. Coercing a woman out of a burqa is as bad as coercing her into one.
Daly, a blogger [mal], linked this cultural sensitivity issue as a form of patriarchy itself in a discussion about purdah in a blog post seven years ago:
Burqa is glorified as a cultural symbol, which is done by the patriarchal systems. After it is glorified it is then said to be used as a tool against imperialism. Then we need to ask, why only a woman’s dress is used a symbol against imperialism and why only women needs to protect this culture. To deflate an evil, another evil is used. Even if the imperialism is done and over with women in burqa still exist.

[Paul]

Racism in Islam

Published on Jan 25, 2008
By Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari
Muslim Brothers of Indian Subcontinent: It's Time for Homecoming

One must also take into account that the famous Salman the Persian, a distinguished convert of Muhammad, had to withdraw his desire to marry a daughter of Caliph Omar, because he was a non-Arab. It should be added here that Salman had saved Muhammad and his community, and, Islam, for that matter, in the Battle of the Ditch by giving Muhammad the idea of digging a trench surrounding his community as defence. Muhammad himself had thanked Salman for the saving the day for Islam and praised him and his people for their excellence in knowledge.

Ramana, this is one key reason as why I have always been sceptical about the news of Mullah Omar marrying OBL's daughter. This would be considered to be a morganatic marriage in Arab circles.

OBL's prestige in the Islamic world was/is very high and Mullah Omar being his son-in-law does not jive with Arabic/Saudi marriage practices as we all know that Omar is supposed to be a Ghilzai Pushtun.

Even Prince Hasan, King Hussain of Jordan's nephew was removed as the successor to Jordan's throne due to him marrying a Pakistani woman (Princess Sarwat - Indian VP Hidayatullah's niece). In his place King Abdullah, born of an American mother became the King of Jordan.

[RajeshA]

Cerebro Islamus (Cont.)

What do these images have in common with Islam?



A Kayan Woman, A Rikbaktsa man, A Mangbetu man

All these people deliberately deform parts of their body for aesthetics or religious reasons. Also all these deformations are permanent. Notable is that for all these deformations to take place, they are introduced when the person is still a child, when the child's bones are still soft and malleable.

Pretty much the same thing happens in Islam. In Islam it is the mind of the child that is deformed to think only in Islamic categories of ḥarām, mubah, ḥalāl, makrūh, mustaḥabb, sawāb and farḍ: forbidden, neutral, permissible, desired, recommended, rewarding and duty. The deformation is the impairing of logical thinking, or more correctly a willingness to question these categories. The deformation is the inability to leave the crutch of Islamic prism to view the world. It seems many neural pathways simply fail to develop in Cerebro Islamus, the brain of the Islamic.

Of course the extent of this deformation of the brain may vary from person to person, but usually it is difficult to restore it later on if the deformation is substantial.

Furthermore

• desensitivization to and glorification of violence on the weak (e.g. on Bakra Eid, etc.),
• commonization of hatred towards others through premature politicization,
• inculcation of male possession over the female, etc.

all contribute to deforming the brain of the child.

Later on there is an overemphasis on possibility of sexual vice which again tends to keep the mind in a paranoid state. In fact a delusional disorder is institutionalized in the society by constantly producing conspiracy theories and harping on danger from others, all leading to a community-wide state of permanent psychosis.