Understanding Islamic Society

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RajeshA
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by RajeshA »

Cross-posting a post by arun from the 'TIRP' Thread
Paul wrote:Younger bro Shahbaz Sharif may not really share the same ardor for good relations with India. Remember TFT reporting Shahbaz was not happy over the bonhomie and back shifting of Cashmere isuue during the bus trip.

He is also reportedly fluent in Arabic and a daughter in the Sharif family is married to the Saudis. No wonder they went out of their way to protect the Sharifs and shunted them to exile unlike what was done to ZAB in 1977.
The marriage relationship of the Shariff family with the Al Saud family of Saudi Arabia is rumoured and not confirmed. I myself suspect that the Saudi Royal family will not permit their bloodline to be contaminated with "Miskeen" genetics :wink: .

Leaked US Embassy cable via Wikileaks and the Guardian:

US embassy cables: Pakistani relations with Saudis 'strained'
RajeshA
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by RajeshA »

Published on Jun 05, 2012
By Khaled Ahmed
Going ‘miskeen’ in Saudi Arabia

Code: Select all

http://tribune.com.pk/story/389166/going-miskeen-in-saudi-arabia/
Image

Brigadier (retd) Mehboob Qadir, who was Director General (SPAFO) of Pakistan Armed Forces deputationists to the Saudi Armed Forces from 1998 to 2002, noted in a recent article: “Pakistanis together with expatriates from India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Philippines, Indonesia, etc, are called ‘miskeen’ by the Saudis”. He thought, quite correctly, that the word was used to mean ‘the poor wretch’. We use the word for the ‘down and out’ in Pakistan too.

What hurts is that the Saudis address the white expats of Europe and America as ‘rafiq’ (friend). What of the concept of ‘ummah’, he asks, which means that all Muslims are one nation? He discovers that ‘ummah’ applies only to Saudis, Iraqis, Egyptians, Yemenis, Kuwaitis Bahrainis, Emiratis, etc., but not to others. Arabs only, it seems, qualify.

The Saudis abolished slavery only recently in 1974. Then why are we ‘miskeen’? Is it really abolished though? Arabia of the Bedouins by Marcel Kurpershoek (Saqi Books 2004), records that Saudi Arabia was still tribal and big tribal families employed lavishly opulent slaves riding Land Cruisers who made Pakistanis and Bangladeshis till the fields of their masters.

The dominant tribe is Oteiba that “accepted Islam at the hand of the Holy Prophet (pbuh), in 622 AD and remained fiercely faithful to him”. Lawrence of Arabia modelled himself on an Oteibi warrior.

For the poor, the Holy Quran has two words: ‘faqir’ and ‘miskeen’. ‘Faqir’ is ‘a man in need’ but ‘miskeen’ is ‘completely down and out’. ‘Faqir’ has less than what he needs; ‘miskeen’ has nothing. ‘Miskeen’ literally means, ‘brought to a standstill in one place’.

In Hebrew, the word for poor is ‘meesken’. The Arabic root ‘skn’ means that which has lost all movement. The Urdu word ‘saakin’ (static) is related. Hence, poor is someone who can hardly move.

But the ‘skn’ root otherwise yields positive words, like peace and tranquillity (sakoon), including the Quranic word sakina (peace) that explains the feeling inside the Ark of the Covenant, expressed in the Judaeo-Christian doctrine of shekinah.
‘Faqir’ comes from the root ‘fqr’ which means ‘spinal vertebra’. Derivative word ‘Zulfiqar’ means that which ‘breaks the spine’ because it was originally the name of a sword. Etymologically, therefore, ‘Faqir’ means ‘broken-backed’.

‘Faqir’ has taken on more meaning. It means also someone who is contented in his need. One important element in mysticism is ‘faqr’: the need to be in need. Although it is an antonym of ‘ghani’ (one who is free of need), it has come to mean something close to ‘ghani’. It is, in this sense, that a famous family of Punjab called themselves ‘faqir’. My friend and well-known scholar Faqir Aijazuddin has a very firm spine.

The third word for poor is extremely poignant. It is ‘ghareeb’. It means someone who has left home or is homeless. And leaving home in ancient times meant going west (gharb). The sun sets (‘gharub’) in the west (‘maghrib’). When we observe the ritual of ‘Sham-e-ghariban’ during Muharram, we actually mean the ‘nightfall of the homeless’.

In Saudi Arabia, the Europeans are called ‘rafiq’. It comes from the root ‘rfq’, meaning ‘elbow’: one who is ‘by your elbow’. Friendship is ‘rafaqat’. Interestingly, ‘artafaq’ means leaning on something for support as if raising oneself on one’s elbow.
More derived meanings include softness because friendship is such a soft thing. When the Holy Quran talks of Paradise it talks of softness (ease) in this sense. To conclude, the most accurate sense of ‘rafiq’ is companion.

Pakistan is in the grip of honour. ‘Miskeen’ is not a good reminder these days.
Agnimitra
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Agnimitra »

RajeshA wrote:Cerebro Islamus (Cont.)
Succinct post RajeshA ji.

SD religions also have sections that can put the mind into a regressive spin. But then that tool is balanced by dominant sections that put the mind on a progressive spiral. Both these movements are aided by the fact that they also have sections that give the mind movement in terms of cyclical as well as linear time, with the former given greater weightage.

Because Islam (and Christianity) has a predominantly linear account of time and a predominantly regressive religious process, it leads to stable "conservatism" at best or chronic "radicalism" of the violent type at worst.

It also means that any "changes"/"reform" that Islam (or Christianity) can undergo will be classic dialectic-type shifts forward, merely eliminating or adjusting undesirable features or people depending on exigency and thus "evolving" - but unable to reverse out of the rabbit-hole they got the person/society into in the first place.

The regressive core is based on something that is incommunicable - a "faith" that Jesus or Muhammad is the Answer, the Only Way, an air of finality regarding searching for answers. Because of that finality, it is incommunicable - not because of its ineffable truth (which can still be communicated via feeling or in silence), but because of an anticipated end yet to come in linear time. If a conversion experience or devotion produces a feeling that can be communicated, that's great. But here even that feeling is also incommunicable because it is not enough to communicate it so that the other person resonates with it; rather, it must be justified as a valid product of a particular package which is the only true bundled solution, and therefore a similar feeling due to another source must be invalidated in some way. IMHO any "managed solution" is like that: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1411005

And as Jean-Paul Sartre said, "I distrust the incommunicable; it is the source of all violence."

If there is a way to convert Islamism into an "unmanaged solution" - that would be a way out, for the individual and the society.
RajeshA
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by RajeshA »

Haiwan in Hawaii
Agnimitra wrote:The regressive core is based on something that is incommunicable - a "faith" that Jesus or Muhammad is the Answer, the Only Way, an air of finality regarding searching for answers. Because of that finality, it is incommunicable - not because of its ineffable truth (which can still be communicated via feeling or in silence), but because of an anticipated end yet to come in linear time.
I read somewhere, that in SD one said one found Paramatma when one discovered one's Atman. That is a deeply introspective process.

However in Islam, during the upbringing of the child, the whole introspective system is not allowed to develop. Islamics only have a system of examining their own alignment with a given prescribed standard.

One often wonders, what is it that exerts such a powerful hold of the ideology over the Islamic mind. As you say there is the regressive spin. But how does it work?

I would contend that actually the Islamic is brought up to love and give in to all the human regressive urges - greed, entitlement, sexual lust, violence, sadism, arrogance, racist hatred. What Islam does is to channelize these urges to political ends by controlling them with a system of Shari'a laws and power configurations.

Islam first takes a Human and kneads him into a Haiwan and then promises him that he can call himself Insaan if he submits himself to Islam which requires the Haiwan to make minimal changes in attitude and some cosmetic changes in lifestyle. Furthermore it allows the Haiwan to shift the guilt and blame from himself onto the object of his past deeds by designating the objects as unislamic and dirty and thus worthy of hatred and being treated badly. Within Islam, the Haiwan is encouraged in fact to pursue all his regressive urges and even maximize them but pursue these in the name of Islamic glory for which he would even receive sawāb.

So what is the need for a Haiwan to submit to Islam? He could continue his life as it is and indulge in all sorts of regressive deeds! Why choose Islam? Well there is of course the social respect he would get if he is willing to channelize his aggression in the service of Islam.

Then there is a lot more glue of Islam which keeps disparate people together. So the Haiwan would get a lot more support in pursuing his urges and thus can set bigger goals, than would otherwise be available.

There is of course also the carrots which are promised in Paradise. If one Earth the Islamic is promised an abundant 4 wives in paradise it is even more, it is 72. Also the women are not some 'maili-quchaili' as on Earth, and they come draped in the finest of clothes. In Paradise he is promised 100 times his virility on Earth. If one Earth he is not allowed to consume alcohol, in Paradise he is promised rivers of wine! In fact an inordinate amount of focus is put on the bounty of Paradise!

So everything a Haiwan could hope for is available in Paradise! The selling pitch is not to an enlightened soul. The selling pitch is directed at the Haiwan.

In fact according to the principle of convert, be killed or pay jizya (Qu'ran 9:29), and the principle of right-hand possessions (Qu'ran 4:24) there is really no crime on the Kufr, which would not be sanctioned by Islam - directly or indirectly and provides a regressive personality all his heart desires.

So of course for the selling pitch to function, it is important that the individual be first turned into a Haiwan! Not just for that, but also for the purpose of channelizing Haiwan's regressive nature into the service of Islam.

What Islam attempts to do is to put the most dreaded Haiwan on top of the food chain in society, thus giving even more impetus for society to turn to become Haiwan themselves.

Islam works in a manner like a Sith Lord, trying to entice the person to develop his regressive urges.

Pakistan is in such a fix, because society now does not know where to channelize all this latent Haiwaniat as the Kufr is gone and sits behind manned and guarded borders.

The only reason alcohol and pork are prohibited in Islam is to give the clergy even better control over the Islamics. Consumption of such produce a certain guilt, and this guilt can be used later on driving the individual to come much closer to Islam and to serve Islam wholeheartedly, especially in social and political agendas. So secretly Islamic clergy too let Islamics indulge in alcohol and pork as well as womanizing outside nikaah.

As such there is no such thing as being too much of a monster to be a good Islamic. The rest is taqiyya!
RajeshA
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

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Published on Aug 27, 2012
The Arab Slave Trade: 200 Million Non-Muslim Slaves from all Colors and Nationalities: The Muslim Issue


About ten years ago while traveling in Asia I found a very unusual book which I have unfortunately not been able to find in the West. I was casually reading it in the bookstore and regret that I never purchased it due to space and weight restrictions I already had in my luggage. It was a 900-year ‘slave manual’ translated into English from original Arabic. It was basically a very detailed purchasing manual, describing the cultural and ethnic traits of slaves from different parts of the world in non-Islamic countries. This should not be a surprise since the Quran supports slavery and enable Muslims to keep slaves even in the modern age (i.e Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, United Arab Emirates, Qatar).

Francis Bok tell his story as a 20th century slave to Muslims in Sudan, captured as a child slave under Islamic sharia:



The manual demonstrated that Arabs were engaged in enslaving all peoples, not only Africans. Their travels around the world was not as much for mercenary purposes as to catch slaves and loot wealth. The manual also gave indications that Arabs actually created the entire slave export trade in Africa. Bits and pieces from history indicate that Muslims enslaved over 150 million African people and at least 50 million from other parts of the world. They also converted Africans into Islam, causing a complete social and financial collapse of the entire African continent apart from wealth attributed to a few regional African kings who became wealthy on the trade and encouraged it. This is a claim that is not well presented in Western information or education on slavery. You can find a lot of very interesting and original historical materials in Asia and the East which have never found its way to the West.

The manual was written by an Arab slave trader describing some of the history of Arabian slavery. It contained character descriptions of slaves from all across West to East Europe, Africa, India, the Orient, Turkey (which proves that Turkey was not originally Islamic) and so on. It also showed that Arabs enslaved Indian people long before moghuls invaded the country. The most despised slaves according to the manual, was Indian and African slaves who were described in the most terrible terms. And the favorite slaves were Turkish slaves, and the second favorites were North European slaves. Slavery was not only black history; slavery was Islamic history around the world. More historical findings is pointing at over 150 million African slaves being traded by Arabs over a period of 14 centuries, and at least 50 million of slaves of other ethnicities.

Arabs and Slave Trade
By Shirley Madany

A flair for history is a prerequisite to understanding the Muslim world and its people. Their yesterdays are closely bound up with the here and now. A good grasp of geography will be helpful as well.

Slavery in Early Islamic History

It was intriguing to note in Bernard Lewis’ book, The Arabs in History, that paper was made first in China in the year 105 B.C. In A.D. 751, the Arabs defeated a Chinese contingent east of the ‘Jaxartes’. (Jaxartes is a river that lies on the border between China and present-day Afghanistan. Persian King Cyrus was killed fighting near this river, about 500 B.C.) The Arabs found some Chinese paper makers among their prisoners. Many such skills were brought into the Islamic world in this way. The use of paper spread rapidly across the Islamic world, reaching Egypt by A.D. 800 and Spain by the year 900. From the tenth century onwards, evidence is clear of paper-making occurring in countries of the Middle East and North Africa, as well as in the European country of Spain.

The Arabs profited from the craft of the paper makers they had captured as slaves. From archaeologists and records kept in ancient times, we learn that slave trade existed for a long time in the Arab world. Back in the days of the caliphs [early Muslim leaders], having a slave for a mother was not a stigma for a Muslim man. Due to polygamy, this was quite common.

At first the caliphs maintained a kind of aristocracy among themselves, making it imperative that the mother of a caliph was from one of the Arab tribes. However, as more and more slaves adopted the religion of Islam, noble birth and tribal prestige lost their value. By the year 817, the Abbasid Caliphs and succeeding Muslim rulers often were the sons of slave women, many of whom were foreign. Such parentage ceased to be either an obstacle or a stigma.

Growth of the Slave Trade

Quite possibly, the maintenance of slavery and the social acceptance of slaves were important drawing cards for Islam as it penetrated Africa. Without a knowledge of history, many Africans may be unaware of the fact that Islamic traders carried on a steady slave trade from East African ports for many centuries. Records are available which contain the lists of goods involved in trade with the rest of the world.

Muslim merchants traveled to India, Ceylon, the East Indies, and China, over sea and land, bringing back silks, spices, aromatics, woods, tin, and many other items. Records mention ‘slave girls’ from the Byzantine Empire along with gold and silver, marble workers, and eunuchs. Surprisingly, Muslim traders went as far away as Scandinavia, and especially Sweden, where scores of Muslim coins have been found with inscriptions from the seventh and eleventh centuries. On the long lists of goods which Muslim traders imported from Scandinavia, are found ‘Slavonic slaves, sheep, and cattle’ (cited by Lewis in The Arabs in History). An early ninth century geographer, Ibn Kurradadhbeh, describes Jewish merchants from the south of France ‘who speak Arabic, Persian, Greek, Frankish, Spanish, and Slavonic. They travel from west to east and east to west, by land and sea. From the west they bring eunuchs, slave girls and boys, brocade, beaver skins, sable and other furs, and swords’.

Though some slaves attained an honored class, doing either domestic work or military service, they were exceptions. ‘Generally, slaves were employed for manual labor on a number of large scale enterprises, in mines, in the fleets, in the drainage of marshes, etc.. They were herded together in settlements, often thousands belonging to a single landowner. Slaves of this kind were mainly black, obtained more especially from East Africa by capture, purchase, or in the form of tribute from vassal states. Such were the slaves in the salt flats east of Basra, where unprecedented numbers were employed by the wealthy men of that city in draining the salt marshes in order to prepare the ground for agriculture and to extract the salt for sale. They worked in gangs from five hundred to five thousand. Their conditions were extremely bad. Their labor was hard and exacting, and they received only a bare and inadequate keep consisting, according to the Arabic sources, of flour, semolina and dates. Many knew little or no Arabic. Eventually a leader arose among them and led a great uprising which aimed, not at ending slavery, but at securing better living conditions.

A Recent Study

Another book by Bernard Lewis entitled Race and Slavery in the Middle East: An Historical Enquiry, published in 1990 by Oxford University Press, features color plate illustrations dating back to 1237 and the 1500′s with 80 pages of notes to back up its contents. These intriguing paintings were discovered in famous libraries in London, Paris, and Istanbul. They depict the variety of slaves and their livelihoods.

In his book, Lewis describes how the Muslim world reacted when cries for abolition of slavery resounded around the world in the 19th century

‘The revulsion against slavery, which gave rise to a strong abolitionist movement in England, and later in other Western countries, began to affect the Islamic lands. What was involved was not, initially, the abolition of the institution of slavery but its alleviation, and in particular, the restriction and ultimately the elimination of the slave trade. Islamic law, in contrast to the ancient and colonial systems, accords the slave a certain legal status and assigns obligations as well as rights to the slave owner.

The manumission of slaves, though recommended as a meritorious act, is not required, and the institution of slavery not only is recognized but is elaborately regulated by Sharia law. Perhaps for this very reason the position of the domestic slave in Muslim society was in most respects better than in either classical antiquity or the nineteenth-century Americas. While, however, the life of the slave in Muslim society was no worse, and in some ways was better, than that of the free poor, the processes of acquisition and transportation often imposed appalling hardships. It was these which drew the main attention of European opponents of slavery, and it was to the elimination of this traffic, particularly in Africa, that their main efforts were directed.

The abolition of slavery itself would hardly have been possible. From a Muslim point of view, to forbid what God permits is almost as great an offense as to permit what God forbids — and slavery was authorized and regulated by the holy law. More specifically, it formed part of the law of personal status, the central core of social usage, which remained intact and effective even when other sections of the holy law, dealing with civil, criminal, and similar matters, were tactically or even openly modified and replaced by modern codes. It was from conservative religious quarters and notably from the holy cities of Mecca and Medina that the strongest resistance to the proposed reform came.

The emergence of the holy men and the holy places as the last ditch defenders of slavery against reform is only an apparent paradox. They were upholding an institution sanctified by scripture, law, and tradition and one which in their eyes was necessary to the maintenance of the social structure of Muslim life’.

Slaves of all colors and creeds – in accordance with Sharia

Further on, Lewis mentions how the overwhelming majority of white slaves came from the Caucasian lands. This was in the days of the Ottoman empire and it was not until 1854 that orders against the traffic in white slaves from Georgia and Circassia were issued and put into effect.

Arabia was another major center for the slave trade. The flow of slaves from Africa into Arabia and through the Gulf into Iran continued for a long time. The extension of British, French, and Italian control around the Horn of Africa (the area of Somalia and Kenya today) deprived the slave traders of their main ports of embarkation.

As far as Islam was concerned, the horrors of the abduction and transportation of slaves were the worst part. But once the slaves were settled in Islamic culture they had genuine opportunities to realize their potential. Many of them became merchants in Mecca, Jedda, and elsewhere.

A Puzzling Question

A puzzling question comes to mind, however. If this is so, why does the Arab world have no corresponding Black population as is found in the New World? Lewis provides an answer, ‘One reason is obviously the high population of eunuchs among Black males entering the Islamic lands. Another is the high death rate and low birth rate among Black slaves in North Africa and the Middle East. In about 1810, Louis Frank observed in Tunisia that most Black children died in infancy and that infinitesimally few reached the age of manhood. A British observer in Egypt, some thirty years later, found conditions even worse. He said, ‘I have heard it estimated that five or six years are sufficient to carry off a generation of slaves, at the end of which time the whole has to be replenished’.

The Abolition of Slavery

The institution of slavery regrettably existed both in the old, classical Christian and Islamic civilizations. Yet it is to the credit of Christianity that the abolition movement took root in Great Britain, Western Europe, and the United States and brought an end to this buying and selling of human beings. :roll:

The way in which slavery was practiced in Islamic countries had both bright and dark sides. What is regrettable now is that this practice among Muslims is seldom openly discussed — as if slavery was exclusively a Western phenomenon. This deliberate silence enables Islamic propagandists in America to represent Muslims as liberators of the people of African origin, contrary to historical fact.
ramana
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

Err Great Britain abolished slavery for it dfound that Indian indentured labor was an effective subsititute and also allow them a guilt free consience. In fact Louisiana and one other state wanted to bring in indentured servants if slavery was abolished.
The abolition of slavery had little to do with Chrisitianty for if this was so there would not have been slaves in the first place at all in the modern world. Portuguese were credited with bringing in African slaves imported from the slave markets of West Africa to South America and the other colonial powers followed suit. Portuguese along with the Spanish(both Catholics) were given the papal right to the lands in the New World!

Distances in time and space may dim the prespective but should not distort the history.
Agnimitra
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Agnimitra »

Posted by Jhujar ji on Islamism & Islamophibia thread:
Jhujar wrote:Muslim Women Like Having Sex, and Halal Lube Is a Thing That Exists
http://jezebel.com/muslim-women-like-ha ... -505979520
What's your image of a devoutly Muslim woman? Pious and shy? Virginal and unwilling to experiment? Well, if this devoutly Muslim woman is married, you're probably wrong.Islam is surprisingly (surprising, that is, depending on how much you know about the religion) open about sex within married couples. While most Islamic societies go to great lengths to make sure all things sex-related remain out of the public eye, sex between a married man and woman is, by Islamic jurisprudence, allowed to get steamy. Unlike some religions (cough Catholicism cough), you don't have to have sex just to make babies when you're Muslim. Sex between a husband and wife is encouraged in Islam — and not only as a lawful method for getting off. There are accounts of the Prophet Muhammad ruling that husbands or wives who were spending a little too much time praying and fasting, especially at night, should ease up and take care of their partner's sexual needs. Hear, hear!While the Qur'an and various accounts of the Prophet have spoken rather openly about sex, (open for the 632 A.D. in the Arabian Peninsula, anyhow), Muslims, and Muslim women, still shy away from much discussion the subject. That's beginning to change, thanks to marriage counselors like Wedad Lootah, who is based in Dubai. Her book, Top Secret: Sexual Guidance for Married Couples, was blessed by the mufti of the United Arab Emirates. But Lootah doesn't believe her book is just about sex:"My subject is not sex; people always misunderstand that. I'm trying to guide people about how to satisfy each other… We're talking about Islam. We're not talking about sex."Well, when you're talking about satisfaction in a sex book, you are talking about sex, but maybe that's just her conservative PR campaign talking. Anyhow, Lootah's tips don't sound unlike Western marriage counselors. She usually helps women who find their husbands disinterested or inexperienced when it comes to pleasuring women: "They're here because the men don't always understand that they have responsibility in marriage beyond working: they have a responsibility to make sure the wife gets pleasure."In nearby Bahrain, Khadija Ahmed opened up a sex store called Khadija Fashion House in 2010, causing scandal in the small country. "I established the store to help married couples, because the issue most Bahraini couples suffer from is the lack of interest in their intimate relationship," said Ahmed. But her seemingly benign effort to spice up married couples' sex lives did not go over well when she crossed customs with some sex toys. She was held in jail in 2010 when customs officials declared that some of the products Ahmed was importing were unauthorized. "The products I sell don't go against Islam," said Ahmed. "There is nothing that prohibits married couples from enjoying their sex lives, or preventing them from having a happy marriage."
Stateside, Asra Nomani, one of the leading faces of Islamic feminism, penned the Islamic Bill of Rights for Women in the Bedroom. The ten commandments of the bill specify a woman's sexual rights within the guidelines of Islam, from a woman's right to a pleasurable experience to her Islamic right to be free from every form of abuse.For Abdelaziz Aouragh, sexual pleasure between religious men and women is his business. Aouragh owns an online sex shop called Al-Asira (meaning "society" or "clan" in Arabic), which sells a line of "sharia conscious" lotions and lube. That's right, they make halal lube. "We don't sell products that simply enhance the love life between man and woman," reads the site's "Philosophy" page, "We strive to offer a product range which will eventually lead to more admiration and love for women."All of which may make many a Muslim woman blush, but when it comes down to it, Islam encourages believers to have happy marriages, and (most) happy marriages tend to include decent sex. When you take away the stereotype of the quiet and submissive woman behind a veil, it's all too clear Muslim women, like most women, want to get some. We're all horny, no matter our creed.
This is well known. Recently there was another report:
Malaysian Muslim women seek to stop husbands from straying. How? By launching ‘The Obedient Wife Club’
“Obedient wife means they are trying to entertain their husbands, not only taking care of their food and clothes,” Ms. Taufik said. “They have to obey their husbands. That’s the way Islam also asks.”

...

Saturday’s launch near the capital Kuala Lumpur will include speeches and a show to demonstrate to women how to be good wives, Ms. Taufik said, adding that a similar club was set up in Jordan last month.

Ms. Taufik is already involved in another controversial venture -- the Ikhwan Polygamy Club, which was launched in 2009 to promote polygamy. Muslim men in Malaysia can take up to four wives.

She is herself in a polygamous marriage, as the second of her husband’s two wives.
It is the responsibility of the wife to make sure her husband is fully satisfied sexually. There is a famous hadith from the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that if a wife says "no" to her husband on any particular night, then demons will haunt her for the rest of that night till dawn.

Since during menstruation a wife is more likely to say "no" to sex, Islam allows upto 4 wives, since mathematically a woman is unavailable for approximately 1 out of 4 weeks in a month, plus during pregnancy and post pregnancy she is unavailable. This is stated by several ulema.

In Islamist countries such as Iran, sex-education is a part of high school. Islam discusses things like sex very openly, much better than Indian parents do with their kids. Thus, Iran's Islamists also allow sex-education as per shari'ah principles in high school.

Moreover, satellite channels beamed into the Arab and Iranian countries have many very explicit sex channels. Moreover, the literature of these languages is passionate about romance and lovemaking.

The upshot of all this is that a woman coming out of this system not only takes care of her body but is quite often a real Rambha in bed - often competing with Western women of the liberal bent in terms of adventurousness in pleasing her partner. It is also relatively common in Iranian society for a woman to make an adulterous move on a friend's husband, as a way to 'test' or as a jealous feminine competition.

However, note that while Islam does warn women to please their man and not rebuff him - which is just cause for endangering the marriage - it is also clear about boundaries in bed. For instance, some types of sex are batter than others. E.g., it is better if man and wife don't get completely naked in bed and don't see one another's privates, but just get it on by feeling and touching. Also, missionary position is most preferred, not having her on top. Etc. However, if desired, oral sex is allowed, though just doing it straight is best.
Agnimitra
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Agnimitra »

^^ Added:

Allama 1Ball wrote:

Qehr to ye hai ke kafir ko milen hoor-o qasoor
Aur becharey musalman ko faqat waida-e hoor

"Our complaint/anger is that the kaafir get's Hoors and Mansions
And the poor Musalman only gets the promise of Hoors (in Jannat)."

I've seen Moslem women in various fora discussing things like the sex-grooming of non-Moslem women in the UK. They are angry that their men are doing such things on the side. But they give reasons why it is happening - non-Moslem women parade themselves like Hooris in Hollywood and Bollywood, so what do you expect?
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by svinayak »

It is sometimes argued by some Indian writers that the Pallavas of Kanchi were local kings and were not from the Pahlava foreign Intruders from North-west. The reason is cited that the Pallavas were very much Hinduised and they had ardently patronised Indian art, culture and Sanskrit language during their powerful reign. This is a futile argument. The Pahlavas, once they got fully acclimatised to Indian environs, they soon had become ardent champions of Indian culture, art and Sanskrit language. This is very natural and reasonable. The new converts are known to always weild the religious broom with greater enthusiasm and zest. The Kaffir community of Kambojas in Kaffirstan [Now Nuristan] was forcibly islamised only in 1895. Untill 1895, they were the most sworn enemies of the Mohammdanas. But within one hunderd years, the Nuristani have become one of the most inveterate Mohammadans as one knows them today. And also they were the first to start the Islamic Jehad against Russians in the late seventies. So the time is not the criteruia here. Moreover, the shrewd and smart rulers try to adapt themselves to the ways of their subjects. Besides, we also know that the newly baptised Christinas, Sikhs or for that matter any new converts to a religion always ply the broom with more enthuisiasm and zest. So the Pahlava rulerts of Kanchi were no exceptions...as were the Kamboja rulers of Bengal and the Kamboja rulers of Kambodia.
http://punjabi.net/talk/messages/45120/ ... 1092270928
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

BS. Pallavas are from Vengi and had Kanchi as capital
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Singha »

http://static1.demotix.com/sites/defaul ... 952594.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... E7HnbiwaHg

islam of all religions take great pride in taking young kids under the wing of older males and inuring them to blood and violence...whether its cutting a animals throat on Bakr Id or whipping themselves on muharram. their are pics on the webs of parents typing a bandage around babies eyes and cutting some blood from their scalp.
its quite common to see early teen muslim boys helping out as part time butchers.

http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/19/not ... ah-ashura/


a sharp knife seems never far from the hands of the faithful...and the willingness to use it
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

X-posted

Details of British role in promoting modern Islamism

Cross-posting a post by brihaspati from the "Indo-UK News & Discussions - April 2013" Thread
brihaspati wrote:If we are looking at Margaret Thatcher's associations/sympathies with fronts/orgs/ideologies through special speculative lenses : here should also be something of interest
Published on Apr 16, 2013
By: Nu’man Abd al-Wahid
Why Margaret Thatcher Loved Islamists: al akhbar
Overlooked in both portrayals is her support of political Islamism and, by extension, jihadis. In December 1979, Thatcher advocated political Islam as a counterweight to left-wing or communist ideologies, which she derogatively dubbed “imported Marxism.” As cited in Mark Curtis’ Secret Affairs, Britain’s Collusion with Radical Islam, she said:

I do not believe that we should judge Islam by events in Iran…There is a tide of self-confidence and self-awareness in the Muslim world which preceded the Iranian revolution, and will outlast its present excesses. The West should recognize this with respect, not hostility. The Middle East is an area where we all have much at stake. It is in our own interests, as well as in the interests of the people of that region, that they build on their own deep religious traditions…

Thatcher’s statement that “our interests” and “the interests of the people of the region” are one and the same is rooted in a particular type of British imperialist strategy that was articulated by Frederick Lugard.


An imperial officer in northern Nigeria in the 19th century, Lugard managed the local emirs on the grounds that they “were allowed to retain the trappings of power so long they accepted the advice of their new overlords,” according to Dane Kennedy’s Britain and Empire.

There was nothing new about this puppet-overlord relationship in the history of British imperialism, but Lugard added a new dimension to this relationship. He framed the Empire’s relationship with its subjects “in terms of the preservation” of their way of life. Hence, Thatcher’s notion that the “Muslim world” should “build on their own religious traditions.”

Professor John Callaghan further argued in The Labour Party and Foreign Policy that if there were no indigenous structures for the British Empire to partner with, then it would consolidate its exploitation and also “retard the rate of social and political progress.”

When the Empire began to consolidate its lordship over the Arab world after WWI, it partnered with Saudi Wahhabis and the Muslim Brotherhood. The trends that these movements represented were not so much “invented” by the British but favored and promoted.

Before the British allowed the Wahhabis to establish themselves in Riyadh in 1901, they were an isolated, exiled cult in the Basra region known as “Kuwait.” With further support from the Empire, the Wahhabis expanded into the western part of the Arabian peninsula in 1924 and 1925.

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928. In Richard P. Mitchell’s seminal book on the Brotherhood, The Society of the Muslim Brothers, the American academic states that a British operative, seemingly from the British embassy, James Heyworth-Dunne, was “a participant in some of the history of the movement and his work must be considered a primary source.” The work in question is Heyworth-Dunne’s Religious and Political Trends In Modern Egypt.

Heyworth-Dunne wrote that the challenges faced by the Empire in Egypt in the 1920s and 30s were twofold. First, US president Woodrow Wilson’s “declaration of self-determination inspired the Egyptians to higher ideals.” Second, there were the “communistic ideas” to be dealt with.

To offset these two challenges, Heyworth-Dunne advocated the Islam as “taught and represented by Hasan al-Banna,” the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, rather than the traditional Islam as practiced by the oldest university in the Islamic world, al-Azhar, for which he had nothing but disdain.


The British Empire had an overprotective attitude toward Islam. It heroically and selflessly defended Islam, even if al-Azhar, the traditional bastion of Islamic learning in the world, didn’t comprehend this urgency.

By the time these two major trends of Islamism strategically coalesced in the 1950s to meet the challenge of third world independence and socialism, the Americans had embraced the British Empire’s imperialist strategy.

The British Empire had an overprotective attitude toward Islam. It heroically and selflessly defended Islam, even if al-Azhar, the traditional bastion of Islamic learning in the world, didn’t comprehend this urgency.
This embrace meant bringing British puppets, such as the Saud clan of Saudi Arabia and the Thani clan of Qatar, under its protective umbrella. This American appropriation of the puppets had initially gained doctrinal credibility through the Eisenhower doctrine and extended all the way until the 1980s to support the Islamist mercenaries, or mujahideen, against the Soviets in the 1980s.

It is for this reason that Thatcher declared that these mujahideen were engaged in “one of the most heroic resistance struggles known to history,” as cited in Sandy Gall’s Afghanistan, Agony of a Nation.

For the UK, the policy of employing Islamists to further its interests is rooted in an imperialist existential strategy, whereas for the US, utilizing Islamists commenced in the 1950s during the Cold War. This is the reason why there is currently a mild schism between the US and the UK with regard to supporting the Islamist “rebels” in Syria. With the Cold War over, the obstacle currently facing the UK is convincing the US to remain enlisted in a pro-Islamist strategy in Syria.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

Modern brain research shows there are three layers of the brain: reptilian, middle and neocortex and reflect evolution. The reptilian brain is the one that provides the auto responses and the neocortex all the pleasant high thinking that allows human society to develop and prosper.


Image

I strongly think Islam is fashioned for the reptilian brain and reinforces the auto responses of hostility.

So while the outside world communicates to the Islamic world from the neo-cortex (Aman ki Asha, grand gestures, Shimla pact etc.) the Islamist world responds with the reptilian brain (beheading, terrorist attacks, perfidy, hostility at all forums).

So the crux of the problem is how to communicate with the reptilian brain meme that dominates Islamist thinking?
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by RajeshA »

ramana wrote:I strongly think Islam is fashioned for the reptilian brain and reinforces the auto responses of hostility.

So while the outside world communicates to the Islamic world from the neo-cortex (Aman ki Asha, grand gestures, Shimla pact etc.) the Islamist world responds with the reptilian brain (beheading, terrorist attacks, perfidy, hostility at all forums).

So the crux of the problem is how to communicate with the reptilian brain meme that dominates Islamist thinking?
:lol:

Well the good thing is that our reptilian brains still function as well.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

While you :lol: think about how to define a 'moderate' Muslim and empower him or her if they exist.

Is a moderate Muslim one who
- does not support terrorists?
- tolerates other religions?
- respects the secular law of the land and international norms?
- what else?
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by RajeshA »

ramana garu,

sorry about the :lol: .I actually found your logical separation of the brain quite insightful and useful. I was actually overjoyed at finding some more meat for the 'Cerebro Islamus' model.
ramana wrote:Is a moderate Muslim one who
- does not support terrorists?
- tolerates other religions?
- respects the secular law of the land and international norms?
- what else?
As far as I understand, a "Moderate Muslim" is a Western invention to try to retain their engagement with Islam even after Islam had declared Jihad on the West, which was ideologically boxed into "Islamism".

A moderate Muslim is simply someone who is more adapted and skillful in his interactions with the West. Often the term is also used for a Muslim who has not gone into his Jihad modus as yet.

A moderate Muslim is basically the tail of the beast, from which the outgoing threat is the least!

Usually the ideological difference between a Moderate Muslim and an Islamist lies in their different perceptions about the tactically most recommendable means to undermine the Kufr at any given time in any given context. One the objective, both Moderates and Islamists concur of course.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

From the brain model of Islam, the reptilian brain influence on a Muslim is much larger than the neo-cortex brain influence.

An Islamist is mostly reptilian brain dominant person.

A moderate Muslim on the other hand has the neo-cortex brain dominant person.

However the Islamist pecking order gives primacy to the reptilian brain dominant members (Mullahs, Jihadis in salwars, in uniforms, and in suits etc.).


I will try to read up the brain fractions for these three types of brains and postulate what potential contribution the Islamists have.
-------------------

Interesting you call the moderate Muslim as the tail. Reminds me of the lizard's tail which can be discarded in times of fright and allow the lizard to escape to sanctuary.

------

Can you find the name of that Arab slave trader manual that was quoted in a few posts above?


In rural Telangana the meme is for the peasant to call himself a 'banisa' of the zamindar/landlord and plead for mercy.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by abhischekcc »

ramana wrote:Modern brain research shows there are three layers of the brain: reptilian, middle and neocortex and reflect evolution. The reptilian brain is the one that provides the auto responses and the neocortex all the pleasant high thinking that allows human society to develop and prosper.

I strongly think Islam is fashioned for the reptilian brain and reinforces the auto responses of hostility.

So while the outside world communicates to the Islamic world from the neo-cortex (Aman ki Asha, grand gestures, Shimla pact etc.) the Islamist world responds with the reptilian brain (beheading, terrorist attacks, perfidy, hostility at all forums).

So the crux of the problem is how to communicate with the reptilian brain meme that dominates Islamist thinking?
Ramana ji,

The reptilian brain is the foundation and motivator of all Semitic religions, not just Islam.

I am currently doing MA (Psychology), motivated by the need to understand sociopathy/psychopathy. I am also reading Rajiv Malhotra's Being Different these days, and the parallels I see between sociopathy and western 'civil'ization are too stark to be missed. I may jot own my thoughts on the similarities between the two when I have more depth of understanding.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Agnimitra »

ramana wrote:I strongly think Islam is fashioned for the reptilian brain and reinforces the auto responses of hostility.
No doubt about this. Islam goes with the natural flow of "reptilian brain" responses - but tries to "control" and "channel" it. Sometimes it is channeled for purposes of law and order-and-consolidation, and at other times it is channeled for purposes of aggression-without-reservation.

Consider this revelation in the Qur'an about how a man should respond to his wife if they get into a disagreement -

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

The part in italics is what happens between dysfunctional couples in a particular strata of society anyway (or sometimes more widespread in certain types of cultures). If the they get into a disagreement, the husband first "admonishes" her. If she remains stubborn, they probably withdraw sexually and become silently hostile for a while. If it gets nasty, then it comes down to physical abuse ('fighting and fvcking' syndrome). Thousands of such cases are found in any society. But this is God's revelation in the Qur'an. In one sense one can say that it is a civilizing commandment - not to beat her right away, but to first admonish, then stop sleeping with her, and beat her as a last resort before divorce. But still this civilizing force doesn't rise above the basic idea of male possession and authority over the female. This relationship is only one mode of male-female relationships. It is an integral part of it, but one doesn't find the other modes of this relationship discussed anywhere in the Qur'an. So I agree with ramana ji that the Qur'an dwells mostly on one brain mode of thought, relationship and action. That mode has its own validity, but when it is not balanced out by comprehensive discussion on other modes, then it is very problematic.
Last edited by Agnimitra on 21 May 2013 22:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by abhischekcc »

It is not possible to communicate with the reptilian brain. This part of the brain is concerned only with self preservation, and perceive security as a zero-sum game in most circumstances. Its impulse is to grab power, its favored method of dealing with others is violence, and it finds solace in controlled hierarchies (either the hierarchy is imposed on others, or the person accepts the hierarchy imposed by the others).

Sound chillingly familiar? This is how the muslim societies behave.

In India, despite all the chance for progress and integrating within the national mainstream peacefully, they choose to ghetto themselves. Muslim aggression and meaningless self assertion that we witnessed from the time of independence, was only controlled when Hindus started adopting muslim methods against muslims - namely large scale riots. This is what culminated in 1992 in Ayodhya. After that muslim voter has been looking for one 'saviour' or another.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

I wanted to focus on Islam and its adherents first.

I was reading a book on NeuroScience last night (I have an eclectic mind 8) ) and it struck me that Islam appeals to the reptilian brain by providing an assuring and soothing framework. By same token it also conditions the responses of the adherents to external communications.

The communications from the neo-cortex brain driven people are seen as hostile by the people driven by reptilian brain as they are complex and could destabilise them.

So the communications have to be simple and not complex. Actions have to be step by step. And most importantly the neo-cortex brain driven people have to establish a power-frame of reference.

Eg. Indian history is replete with how messages were amenable when the power frame was established very convincingly.

When the power frame is shaken or dethorned by self or external actors then the reptilian brain will go on auto-pilot and try to regain dominance.

9/11 is a very good recent example.

It cost the US a lot to re-establish and only the future will tell us if it succeeded or not.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

I think again BRF is ahead of the curve. I dont know of anyone applying rudimentray ideas of neruoscience to understand ISlam and later other religions.
If anyone has refs please post so we can all get educated.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Agnimitra »

From Wiki article on Urdu
Non-secular feature of Urdu [edit]

Use of certain Urdu words is reserved for Muslims only. Shaheed (شہید) is essentially meant to be used for Muslim martyrs and marhoom (مرحوم) "late" (literally "in position of mercy") is only used before Muslim names. In contrast, the word for "late" used with a non-Muslim is anjahani (آنجہانی), a Persian coinage that means the deceased person belongs to the other world. If someone refers to a deceased Muslim as anjahani, that person is likely to be rebuked.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Singha »

is there any difference in pack dynamics among
(a) a reptilian pack like velociraptors
(b) more evolved mammals like wolves, elephants, deer , wild horses and lions

imo (b) have a much more complex interaction level and will not willy nilly fall on each others throats in the temporary absence of a alpha leader....neither will they attack other packs unless forced into a corner by lack of food or water in the territory. they are more ordered and logical societies.

(a) we do not have live samples to study and todays reptiles do not really form packs except crocodiles. there seems to be absense of a real leader or complex social structure in such packs, its a kind of every man for himself but the pack will happily punish and eat anyone deviating from the mood of the mob and attack anything that comes along for no apparent reason but just because they can. it functions as a kind of distributed instinctive hive-mind, where aggressive cues are picked up in the network and jerks the whole pack into a attack/feeding frenzy like crocs going after wildebeest and zebras at water crossings or piranhas swarming a target.

the genius of Islam is the top level Ashraf are full neo-cortex bases and they have figured out levers and signals to control, shape n manage the boiling seething mass beneath them permanently. the old friday sermon + islam khatre mein hain is one of the attack triggers that are sent out - within mins well armed mob can be expected to muster outside the mosque to go on the offensive...almost like a well drilled tribal or military society fighting for survival in a hostile environment.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Anand K »

I first read about Triune Brain in Frank Miller's "reboot" of Elektra sometime back. :)

Ramana, all this was from "The Lucifer Principle"?
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by abhischekcc »

ramana wrote:I think again BRF is ahead of the curve. I dont know of anyone applying rudimentray ideas of neruoscience to understand ISlam and later other religions.
If anyone has refs please post so we can all get educated.
There is a new subject called psychohistory - which is a combination of essentials from 4 disciplines - history, psychology, sociology, anthropology. It aims to study history from the POV of the psychology of important actors.

The only large scale application of neuroscience that I know of is in marketing and advertising - that is, how to make us buy more soap. :lol:


I am doing MA (psychology) to study history. 8)

---------------

Anand: The Lucifer Principle?
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by abhischekcc »

If you need a parallel from the animal world to compare Islamic society to, then you should look at an ant hill.

There is one queen at the top, a few caretakers for her, and the rest of the masses are for serving them - the only concern is survival. Anything foreign is either food or target.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Anand K »

Abhishekcc wrote:Anand: The Lucifer Principle?
This was a controversial book, by a Howard Bloom, that was banned in M.E. (in the vein of Raphael Patai's magnum opus) because it gave a psychological-neuroscience take on Islamic conquests and theology and Muhammed's psyche. The Triune Brain was apparently liberally quoted in this work apparently. I haven't read this one though.
Anyway, I was intrigued when I read Elektra a few years ago 9being a huge fan of comics/graphic novels/pulp); the chapter on the scientists studying what makes EleKtra tick had a page or two devoted to this. When I searched around I found this was (and still is) a popular theory though criticized by other neuro specialists.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by RajeshA »

There is an article on correlation between Christianity and Hippocampus.

PLoS ONE 6(3): e17006, March 30, 2011

Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life
Authors: Amy D. Owen¹, R. David Hayward²⁺³, Harold G. Koenig¹⁺²⁺⁴, David C. Steffens²⁺⁴, Martha E. Payne²⁺³


¹ Center for the Study of Aging and Human Development, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, North Carolina, United States of America
² Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, North Carolina, United States of America
³ Neuropsychiatric Imaging Research Laboratory, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, North Carolina, United States of America
⁴ Department of Medicine, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, North Carolina, United States of America


Abstract
Despite a growing interest in the ways spiritual beliefs and practices are reflected in brain activity, there have been relatively few studies using neuroimaging data to assess potential relationships between religious factors and structural neuroanatomy. This study examined prospective relationships between religious factors and hippocampal volume change using high-resolution MRI data of a sample of 268 older adults. Religious factors assessed included life-changing religious experiences, spiritual practices, and religious group membership. Hippocampal volumes were analyzed using the GRID program, which is based on a manual point-counting method and allows for semi-automated determination of region of interest volumes. Significantly greater hippocampal atrophy was observed for participants reporting a life-changing religious experience. Significantly greater hippocampal atrophy was also observed from baseline to final assessment among born-again Protestants, Catholics, and those with no religious affiliation, compared with Protestants not identifying as born-again. These associations were not explained by psychosocial or demographic factors, or baseline cerebral volume. Hippocampal volume has been linked to clinical outcomes, such as depression, dementia, and Alzheimer's Disease. The findings of this study indicate that hippocampal atrophy in late life may be uniquely influenced by certain types of religious factors.

It would be interesting to have some data on Muslims and early life.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Singha »

one of the books by raphael patai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arab_Mind

Along with prefaces, a conclusion and a postscript, the book contains 16 chapters including Arab child-rearing practices, three chapters on Bedouin influences and values, Arab language, Arab art, sexual honor/repression, freedom/hospitality/outlets, Islam's impact, unity and conflict and conflict resolution, and Westernization. A four-page comparison to Spanish America is made in Appendix II.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Anand K »

I remember Shiv's old posts on Patai..... and a link to an article which said this was required reading for all Psy War/Propaganda specialists of the US Armed Forces stationed in the the Middle East.

The snippet about mommies fondling infant male babies to make them stop crying and the long term impact of this was....... :shock:
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

AnandK, I read VS Ramachandran's "The Tell Tale Brain".


others,
Also find out who popularized Ralph Patai's book first.

abhishekcc, I am using it to make complex points understood to power frame people.

My understanding is one has to pacify the reptilian brain before the mid-brain and the neo-cortex get your message and get to cooperation.

So either make the message simply easy to ken or destroy the power-frame which is more resource intensive and could have biteback.

The odd thing is the reptilian brain dominates in auto response mode. So one has to be a thinking person to quell the basal instinct.

The drawback is one might be mistaken for wuss!

For all read and understand Narendra Kholi's interpretation of the "Mahasamar" thankfully being synopsised by abhishek_sharma in GDF. Dharmaraja is operating from the neocortex and the kauravas from the reptilian brain.
Bhima also is at the reptilian brain, which is why he destroys the power-frame of the Kauravas. But then its too late.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by RamaY »

Ramanaji,

Imagine how do you control a person who is paranoid, hyper and so on; which are all indications of reptilian brain?

Reminds me of a discussion I had with a highly connected (adviser to a power president of one of the three super-powers) friend I had on future of Islam, world and geopolitics.

First you would "physically" restrain the individual and then use calming and assuring words/treatment. It is like "cesar millan" pulling the dog leash (that is actually a noose around dog's neck).

That is how Ataturk controlled Turkey. The noose is a permanent feature of aggressive dog, until it dies. The moment the noose is losened in Turkey, we see what we see.
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Agnimitra »

गैर-मुस्लिम महिला से रेप सही और पति न हो तो मत ऑन करो एसी: मौलवी
आपने मोबाइल, जींस और यहां तक कि लड़कियों के रॉकबैंड तक पर पाबंदी के फतवे के बारे में पढ़ा है, लेकिन सऊदी अरब में एक ऐसा फतवा जारी किया गया है जिसके बारे में जानकर आप हैरान रह जाएंगे. दरअसल, यहां के एक स्वूयंभू मौलवी ने कहा है कि अगर महिलाएं अपने पति की गैर-मौजूदगी में एयर कंडीशनर यानी कि एसी ऑन करती हैं तो उनका नैतिक पतन हो जाएगा.
खुद को सलाफी-वहाबी समुदाय का मौलवी बताने वाले इस शख्स ने माइक्रो ब्लॉगिंग साइट टि्वटर पर लिखा है कि अगर पति के घर में न होने पर कोई महिला कूलर वेंटीलेटर ऑन करती है तो उसे बाहर से कोई देख लेगा, जो कि नैतिकता के आधार पर ठीक नहीं है.

गौरतलब है कि सऊदी अरब के सुन्नी मुसलमानों का सलाफी वहाबी समुदाय काफी रूढ़ि‍वादी है, जो इससे पहले भी कई फतवे जारी कर चुका है.

वॉशिंगटन टाइम्‍स के मुताबिक इससे पहले एक अन्य मौलवी ने यूट्यूब में एक वीडियो पोस्ट कर दावा किया था कि गैर-सुन्नी और गैर-मुस्लिम महिला का रेप स्वीकार्य है.
Paul
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Paul »


The snippet about mommies fondling infant male babies to make them stop crying and the long term impact of this was.......
In "The Haj" by Leon Uris, there is a semi incestual exchange between the leading character and his sister about how older sisters in Arab families take care of their younger baby brothers.
ramana
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by ramana »

Paul, Even the Mughals were guilty of this repugnant practice.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1458115
Jaybhatt
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Jaybhatt »

APPOINTMENT OF TAINTED DEFENCE SECRETARY AS CAG
________________________________________________

This development concerns all branches of the country's armed forces. I am posting it here because it is the most relevant
thread.

Babu Shashi Kant Sharma has been the point-man of the netas and the babus throughout the General VK Singh affair and in other multiple shenanigans, even earlier, in the MOD. His overall track-record in the MOD was most chequered.

He has now been elevated to the CAG's post in a blatantly non-transparent and underhand manner, overriding strong (and I would say, legitimate) protests from the opposition. This is because the present bunch on Raisina Hill wants to undo the splendid legacy of the former CAG Vinod Rai.

Clearly, the UPA lot wants a pliable CAG to cover their tracks if 2014 proves to be their undoing.

http://thestatesman.net/index.php?optio ... 8&catid=38

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/wa ... 736914.ece
RajeshA
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by RajeshA »

Regarding the Islamic promotion of reptilian brain traits:

Even if can observe these traits to be common in Islamic society, one should still give credit to Islam that it has mastered the reptilian brain behavior and made a science out of it, and learned how to both bolster it as well as how to channelize it. The elites in Islamic societies often use it to their political ends.

This mastery however shows a neo-cortical behavior.

So even if an individual or most individuals in Islamic societies may look displaying reptilian brain behavior, at the forest level, there are cold calculations.
Prem
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Prem »

RajeshA wrote:Even if can observe these traits to be common in Islamic society, one should still give credit to Islam that it has mastered the reptilian brain behavior and made a science out of it, and learned how to both bolster it as well as how to channelize it. The elites in Islamic societies often use it to their political ends.This mastery however shows a neo-cortical behavior.o even if an individual or most individuals in Islamic societies may look displaying reptilian brain behavior, at the forest level, there are cold calculations.
Andho Kei Kaan Raaja. Among the Four Leggeds , Two legged one is The Prince of Intelligence.
This is the core handle to solve Islamist problem , Threaten these elites and for self preservation they bring the desired results for Piss Sake. Its related to Taqiya practice like Mushy" speech after 911 with refrence to PBUH using this nature"s gift to survive and all the reptilians level brains going gaa gaa over it.
Agnimitra
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Re: Understanding Islamic Society

Post by Agnimitra »

Most non-Muslims are familiar with typical jihad-denier Muslims defining 'jihad' as being primarily an act of self-improvement or against social injustice, rather than an act of war. But there are several other Muslim sheikhs and bloggers now emerging who do accept that it was indeed primarily defined as an act of battle, but they still do draw a line between legitimate jihad and anarchist terrorism. E.g.:

Terrorism is to Jihad as Adultery is to Marriage

It is also interesting to observe the reactions among the Muslim community in the wake of incidents such as the recent street stabbing in Londonistan. The initial reaction is embarrassment, irritation or self-pity at the real or imagined uncomfortable silences of colleagues at the workplace or fellow travelers on the metro or bus. There is some condemnation of the perps being not real Muslims. But when that starts happening, there is always the wise voice that reminds the community that according to a widespread interpretation of Islam even major sins do not constitute a breach of Imaan (faith in the eyes of Allah). In discussions that follow, many of those that initially condemn the perps then jump to the defence of the Saudis, who are not to be considered as the prime petrodollar proliferators of these takfiri ideologies, but as those who support the schooling of the most hardened fighters in legitimate jihads such as Syria, while dealing equally swiftly and mercilessly with such problematic criminals. The discussion then veers around to how such criminals who bring Islam a bad name are affected by psychiatric illnesses.

My feeling is that while psychological problems obviously do play a big part in such behaviors, the fact that such people seem to most easily find support for their paranoid schizo tendencies in a particular religion is not being considered. For them, the same ideology that famously breeds the most admirably hardened jihadis in W.Asia, Af-Pak and Africa is not to be blamed if these lunatics misuse it. I've heard the analogy used: a good car cannot be blamed in an accident involving a crazy driver.

In their worldview, there are obvious injustices in the world, such as the West invading Muslim countries to exploit their resources. Therefore, a "complete philosophy" must involve the use of violence and the priming of the mind to clinically execute acts of violence against an oppressor or anyone who displeases Allah. That the violent component of the philosophy is in the mould of a religion seems to be the hardiest and most amazing solution to them, and they frankly or secretly admire it and are proud of it. It does not strike them as having any inherent problems whatsoever.

IMHO, if the philosophical consideration of violence were truely defensive in spirit or as a re-constructive means to an end, it would not be cast in the mould of religion itself - such as the jihadi meme. Rather, the comprehensive philosophical justification of violence would probably be cast in the mould of a fight against just such a reptilian/demonic cult of organized and religiously directed violence. To quote the famous mantra reproduced in this post by RajeshA ji:

Ends & Means
इन्द्रं वर्धन्तो अप्तुरः कृण्वन्तो विश्वं आर्यं अपघ्नन्तो अराव्णः - Rigveda 9.63.5

Indram vardhanto apturah krinvanto vishwam aaryam apaghnanto araavNah - RV 9:63:5

Translation by Atri garu: Augmented by Indra's strength, civilize the world by destroying the non-liberal and jealous ones.
To extend the brain analogy: When something is cast in the mould of the reptilian brain, the person identifies with it possessively. It becomes the end, not the means. It produces irrational not rational thought. It is no longer "philosophical" even if specious arguments are used to show how there is obvious justification for it. Even when those motivator justifications are no longer there, they will be manufactured. Thus, there is an undercurrent of either provocation or reaction.

In the above Vedic idea of dharma-yuddha, it is the mobilized mass of "non-liberal" orcs that is sought to be destroyed and civilized. Here also there is reaction involved, no doubt, but it is not provocative in the same way as a cult of violence. JMT.
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