French military action in Mali

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2013 09:00

use of gazelle shows there is still a place for proven and old kit with immediate readiness vs the more ponderous support infra and basing needed for the next gen kit like Tigre. our use of armed lancers and Mi17v also falls in that bucket.
and generally in any of these colonial wars its the f-16s, tornadoes and mirages that lead the way when sudden escalations are needed.
B1 and B2 missions probably need a week of prep time.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 15 Jan 2013 09:55

Brando wrote:Al-Qaeda's New Homeland : Mali
http://youtu.be/Sj6e0fZqG-k

No particularly brutal and cowardly Islamist atrocity is complete without a greener-than-green paki and sure enough, the guy whipping the boy at 02:26 is one.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Jan 2013 13:44

slowly beginning to understand what is at stake in mali - this is very much a new front in the islamist jihad against the rest of the world, at stake is the collapse of nigeria and the surrounding countries to the green flag. the jihad has been slowly nurturing itself in the desert, and now like the dark armies of sauron are spewing forth from mordor

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2013 14:13

just as in 700AD. at the beginning the arab armies did not even have proper weapons or enough horses. they picked up these progressively as war booty.....the greeks badly misjudged the nature of the diffuse and new kind of threat where light raiding forces on camels would cross vast stretches of desert and isolate strongpoints, cut supply lines...a kind of old school maoist insurgent approach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_invasions

united by a strong bigotry and belief in plunder...like locusts they emerged from the endless sands...

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 15 Jan 2013 15:04

In those days they were on-par technology-wise with the Romans and the Persians. They also had great generals like Khalid ibn Walid, Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqas, Abu Ubeidah etc who fielded big armies, devised sound tactics, forged coalitions and won huge set piece battles.
IMO all these guys have now is a useless sandbox forsaken by God in a$$ end of Africa led by two bit flea-bitten bandits/Jihadis.

BUT........ things will get serious if they break through Eastwards into Niger or Southwards into Sierra Leone, Liberia, Guinea, Ivory Coast and attain supremacy on Nigeria. Those lands are too important to be left in the hands of Al Keeda, have large Sunni populations and are militarily weak enough to fall to these focused "Hajji Armor & Infantry Corps". Up North, chummy Libya has their back, Chad is well..... Chad and rest are basket cases. Algeria might turn a Nelson's eye if the Keedas remain out of sight in the Hoggar..... not like Kabaylie which is quite visible and too close for comfort.

Domino Theory, anyone?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 15 Jan 2013 15:58

UK made it clear their C-17s are only available for 1 week. British trainers will form part of the EU mission later.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2013 16:08

west equatorial africa the places you mentioned is not poor, ghana is relatively well ruled and nigeria has a lot of oil wealth though its somewhat misruled. cote de ivorie, sierra leone can be ok places if they get a good govt.

certainly a far cry from the wind washed flea bitten sub saharan belt like mali, mauritania, chad, niger....seems like arab slavers spread the faith along this route all the way to west africa where slave ships waited to take the unlucky off to the new world plantations.

it is too important an area and resource rich enough to form the nucleus of a new caliphate and form a hostile crescent along the south rim of the Med....too close to the soft underbelly of EU - in the past places like spain and sicily were ruled by arab chieftains...

in way its like the rajput and sindh rulers of the indus/GV coming up against the first wave of arab raiders trying to make their way east, creeping through the sands of the makran...

anand_sankar · Post by **anand_sankar** » 15 Jan 2013 16:17

Gallic pride must be hurting like hell because they had to ask the Royal Airforce for an emergency heavy airlift with C-17s.

I had never looked at the transport fleet of the French, I'm surprised they never went in for a heavy airlifter, even though they have paid big bucks for E-3s and KC-135s.

The A-400M is unfortunately not going to fill their needs, the range is against it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_w ... _paris.svg

In the past they have benefited from NATO/USAF airlifts. This event might change their mind to consider going in for 6-10 C-17s before the line shuts down.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 15 Jan 2013 16:21

Ghana is a Botswana of Sub-Saharan Africa... pretty decent place. So is Ivory Coast. Long time links with Indians too.... In fact the Ghanaian security services were established with help of Nehru Govt. I have relatives in both places.... loooong time residents.

But even these countries might not have the strength to resist a push from the hordes to their West. Nigeria is stronger but IMO it's a disaster waiting to happen. The North of Nigeria is pretty much written off..... Boko Haram Sect and Shariat only region and "foreign advisors" from the Salafis/Wahabbis of Niger has strong presence there.

Hope the French channel their inner Clovises and Martels and Charlamenges and and Rolands and win...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2013 16:50

militant islam is truly a political virus that can only shrink or grow , never remain in steady equilibrium anywhere.

it must end here and be crushed else the entire continent is under threat. the kenyans and tanzanians are hardly in a position to defend themselves. only nigeria, egypt and south africa strike me as capable of defending themselves strongly under the right leadership.

americans meddling around with bags of $$ notes and a buffalo's a$$ for a brain does not help matters

the combined IQ of the strategic thinkers in the SD cannot be more than 150 to have let this happen. perhaps they feel dollar notes will indefinitely pay off the faithful to hunt elsewhere but they will soon know the snake knows no friends...

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 15 Jan 2013 17:41

going by this video of the standard of Malian forces...they have absolutely no chance of winning anything against Islamist..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a1e_1358223039

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Jan 2013 17:43

unkil has been very active on the quiet in east africa to prop up kenya in particular. france is considered the 'better handler' for west africa, british influence is very poor these days. i think unkil is very aware of what is creeping out of the desert given that the 'homeland' sands of the gulf have been well policed now for a few years. in a sense all of the central sahara region is turning into the jihad hinterland with the coastal regions held by pro western leaders. its time to awaken the berbers and tauregs to regain their pre islamic identities and pride and drive the jihadis out of the central sahara

reading a blog in the guardian - suggests that if the french hadn't come in (on the invitation of the Malian president) then the malian army might have folded and the islamists might be sitting in bamako by now. the job now seems to be to hold the islamist offensive at bay with air strikes, stiffen the defensive line and secure the capital (including against coups) and allow time for ecowas troops to gather and start the fight, whilst the malian army is rebuilt.

incidentally, the french might be sharing british heavy lift, but the british are sharing french carriers - neither can afford full independence and maintain strategic capability like unkil can; they are forced to share and swallow their respective prides. the glory of napoleon and wellington/nelson is now in the history books only.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 15 Jan 2013 18:52

Lalmohan wrote:
the french might be sharing british heavy lift, but the british are sharing french carriers - neither can afford full independence and maintain strategic capability like unkil can; they are forced to share and swallow their respective prides. the glory of napoleon and wellington/nelson is now in the history books only.

Unkil has 10 Nimitz class carrier and 3 more Ford class on their way and close to 70 Nuclear Subs.... just a staggering number of platforms and still struggling to fight out the asymmetric warfare in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 15 Jan 2013 19:28

The Gazelles have always been good - even with the syrians against the Israelis

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 15 Jan 2013 19:45

After destroying the priceless cultural artifacts in Northern Mali, the orcs can be expected to snuff out any semblance of native talent in the arts of which there is plenty. This guy is an icon in France and Germany and is becoming popular in the US too. The world stands to lose a lot indeed.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 15 Jan 2013 20:01

guys how hard is to stop posting extraneous comments in this thread?? need a modicum of discipline

we all know the political storyline- so no point in putting it again and again

Lets stick to the military action

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Jan 2013 20:02

surya - i disagree; i dont think we do know the full political storyline - and very few understand the implications
this war is important

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 15 Jan 2013 20:09

Rafael is being deployed now for the operation

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 15 Jan 2013 20:14

lalmohan

ok lets see

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2013 20:19

huge thread here
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... on-in-Mali

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2013 20:22

video of airlifters into serval here no surprise the an124 and c17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 1fyoCd3pvY

france may not be khan, but they have full spectrum capabilities and willing to use whatever they have.

our dodos wonder if it will hurt the muslim vote bank and assorted dalals/dawoods first.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 15 Jan 2013 20:33

US Special Forces heading to Mali to help the French

http://politix.topix.com/homepage/4137- ... ch-in-mali

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2013 20:35

the M2K seem to be using 2 drop tanks and only 2 small LGB on centerline. no meaty CBU or BLU type weapons for area bombardment.

the Rafales seem to have 3 drop tanks, 2 wingtip AAMs and 6 small LGBs...again no area crushing munitions.

mashallah on friday as people gather with hammers to pray and smash more idols, a couple of B1's would drop by
to clean things up a bit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BL8Vomu0tM

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 15 Jan 2013 20:36

this is where the wheeled Av family strategy pays off - you should be seeing the ERC90 AMX 10RC come in soon

good enough for this conflict

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jan 2013 20:41

some have already been airlifted in per the forum whose link I posted.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 15 Jan 2013 20:41

thanks makes sense

they are assigned to their rapid deployment forces

another video of deployment (Epervier company)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... qQQ_4YY9ms#!

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Jan 2013 07:06

looks like Canadian C 17/s are joining in
http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/si ... ex-eng.asp

looks like C 17s are the aircraft in demand for airlift

from military photos

line of VAB and Panhards

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 16 Jan 2013 07:47

Prithwiraj wrote:going by this video of the standard of Malian forces...they have absolutely no chance of winning anything against Islamist..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a1e_1358223039

Sorry but I couldn't help it....this is beyond ridiculous.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Jan 2013 07:58

well the AK47 is a spray and pray weapon anyway in these bush wars. they are learning the requisite fire drills of working in teams, how much to fire and when to relocate....they will manage....even 9 yr old abducted child soldiers in west african kids militias are known to be good AK47 wielders.

if a team puts out enough fire in general direction, something will be hit or atleast suppressed.

the 50cal HMGs in those technical trucks are likely wielded by the veterans and can do a lot of damage from well outside rifle range. no wonder the militias like it. some technicals also have zsu-23-2 type guns.

and then there's always the RPG7 and clones.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Jan 2013 08:01

poor guys - can't blame them - if thats all they have (probably handfule of ammo0

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 16 Jan 2013 20:38

French Troops Move North as Mali Rebels Dig In
The "rebels" have dispersed among the population in Diabaly and foreign oil workers in nearby Algeria may have been taken hostage. All classic human-shield tactics that should be known by now. There are reports of hand to hand fighting but it is doubtful that the jihadis can be dislodged from a town without massive damage and civillian casualties.

It's puzzling that the French haven't deployed Tiger attack choppers with thermal imaging and IR enabled pinpoint targeting. The jihadi trucks with heavy machine guns can't all be hidden even in a densely populated town and these can be selectively destroyed from the air. Anyone seen with weapons can also be taken out. If deprived of their mobility and heavy firepower, the jihadis may become frustrated and turn on the population.

Right now, ordinary Malians are happy with their brand of "Islam", mixed in with animist and old native customs that allow enjoyment of arts, music and dancing but they need to see very graphically what jihad is actually about and what awaits them under the pure sharia. The tuaregs who fled Timbuktu show that this is very much a possibility--they were shocked at the brutality and barbarism of these outsiders as shown on many youtube videos of refugees. They need to be reminded that it was these very Arabs who not only enabled their mass slavery and suffering for centuries but also imposed an alien belief on them which might not be fully compatible with their native instincts, way of life and spiritual needs. Jihad can't be stopped with the sword alone and Mali may be the perfect place to test it.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Jan 2013 21:58

any info on the Rafale's mission here?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2013 22:10

Lalmohan is right. We need to understand the political aspect for war is an extention of politics as the wiseman said. This aspect will get swamped in the WANA thread.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 16 Jan 2013 23:46

No issues with the Jihadis and Islamists being destroyed. But what are France's other motives? There must be resources in Mali that the French, and others, want to obtain a large degree of control over. There could be more than a whiff of neo-colonialism at work here.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Jan 2013 00:02

Mali has strategic Maal which Islamists want. Hope they destroy AQ Khan's motel in Timbkutu. Europe wont like Mali becoming AFPAk type headache.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 17 Jan 2013 01:51

looks like French are not shying away from a ground fight

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ja ... rebel-town

Always believed that deep down the Europeans always had their aggresive genes. (hell thats how they could hold off the ottomans)

interesting to see how they coordinate with the african forces but they have always planned for it - so it should not be that difficult

http://news.yahoo.com/mali-french-troop ... 53355.html

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Jan 2013 02:06

Varoon Shekhar wrote:No issues with the Jihadis and Islamists being destroyed. But what are France's other motives? There must be resources in Mali that the French, and others, want to obtain a large degree of control over. There could be more than a whiff of neo-colonialism at work here.

france can easily buy these resources, and in the past they ruled these countries, mali is i believe a francophonic country. hollande has already said that neo-colonialism is a thing of the past. what is in it for them is relevance in africa as a power broker and a willingness to work with unkil strategically to fight a war which she thinks she can win (unlike afghanistan). the french believe they still have a lot of influence in the maghreb and sahel and are worried about the rise of islam on their home soil. what better than to fight it in someone else's turf?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 17 Jan 2013 02:08

well francophone countries pretty much give French companies first choice on anything

most valuable resources are controlled by french companies

this one is more aimed at fighting it outside their shores and prevent a domino effect

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jan 2013 02:46

Last time they ignored the khamsin from North Africa, the Europeans ended up losing Spain for a few centuries.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 17 Jan 2013 03:48

The AQIM are planning to go to Mauritania (uranium), Niger (uranium), Nigeria (oil) and hence could become a power to reckon with and that whole belt could become a big pain.

Toureg tribes generally don't mix with the black African tribes of the south. The Touregs have a lot of pride as they used to be quite well off