French military action in Mali

[Altair]

Forget North Africa and ME, There are swathes of Europe which have crossed the threshold of safe Muslim population.

In another 20 years we will have threat from Europe's Muslims. Mark my words

[Singha]

what is the posture of the new libyan govt on the islamists?

algeria seems uncompromising and wiped them out at the gas plant.

[Lalmohan]

new libyan govt, like the new egyptian, and the impending new syrian are all islamist or sympathisers... arab spring was not a good thing for the wellbeing of the planet

[Surya]

In another 20 years we will have threat from Europe's Muslims. Mark my words

and the Europeans will crush them at that point in any manner needed -



meanwhile the Russians offer their transport services to the French

[IndraD]

Forget North Africa and ME, There are swathes of Europe which have crossed the threshold of safe Muslim population.

In another 20 years we will have threat from Europe's Muslims. Mark my words

Already there is undercurrent of dislike for muslims in UK, problem is that Asians look alike, in the event of hate crime irrespective of who is who, any non white will be targeted

[IndraD]

A view of the weapons seized by the Algerian authorities at the gas plant. The pile, which included handcuffs and bullets, were shown to journalists in the town of In Amenas




Militant Islamist leader Mokhtar Belmokhtar has said he is ready to negotiate with Algeria and Western countries if they stop bombing North Mali.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... oming.html

In many ways, BP’s state-of-the-art gas facility in the middle of Algerian nowhere was a symbol of Western Europe’s idyllic isolation from the growing chaos just across the Mediterranean. This hyper-modern plant with excellent facilities for its expat workers operated like a moon-base with no connection to life in the desert – until the terrorists swept inside like alien invaders. What no one told the expats was that all around them – for thousands of miles – the Sahara was seething with rebels, terrorists and gun-slinging nomads on the lookout for valuable loot.

For the last two years, the West has looked at the region through the rose-tinted lens of the ‘Arab Spring’. Democracy was supposed to be transforming the Arab world.
But last Wednesday’s assault on the In Amenas gas production facility was a ‘surprise’ attack which everyone should have been expecting

But the Algerian army had – and still has – three simple reasons for cracking down at once: it wanted to stifle the crisis quickly and to destroy the terrorists; they wanted to show their own people that the regime is still firmly in charge and they were also desperate to avoid any chance of Western special forces getting to play a role on their territory.
North African governments may share a common Islamic fundamentalist enemy, but sharing a common enemy doesn’t mean they share the same values. From Afghanistan via Iraq to Libya, the West has shown it can knock down tyrannical Humpty-Dumpties, but putting the societies back together again has eluded us which is why Algeria sees the Arab Spring as part of the problem, not part of the solution

[vivek_ahuja]

This is the most awesome pic so far to come out of Mali for me.

No peace-veace shit with this French marine. He's out there to collect Jihadi dog-tags...

[Neshant]

The Mali situation looks suspiciously like a resource grab on the part of NATO.

First Iraq, then Libya, then Syria, then Iran (still ongoing) now Mali.

It looks suspiciously like European colonialism is making a comeback under the garb of fighting terrorism.

Is it just coincidence that large oil deposits were found in the north.

Both North America & Europe have forged an alliance and the losers in this case will be China, India and practically all of the developing world as global resources fall under the control of invading states.

If I were a leader in UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, Singapore..etc all such small, wealthy & easy to take down states, I'd be wondering when my turn is coming next.

[Prem]

As long as the resources are kept out of Islamist hand to build their strategic strength, its better in Kufaar hands.

[Neshant]

^^ Rather silly reasoning there. French certainly don't have India's best interest in mind. In fact when the Mumbai attacks took place, they too claimed "no evidence" that the terrorists came from across the border.

They are grabbing resources in Africa for their benefit, not anyone else's and probably at India/China's expense. Cost of oil will be raised by NATO block once they have the majority of the world's oil fields in their hands. The vast multitudes of Asians, Africans and South Americans pay the price.

[Anand K]

>> vivek_ahuja

That's Ghost from Modern Warfare 2?!!!

[Lalmohan]

neshant - west african oil is managed by the global oil cartel, like oil everywhere else. france being physically present is not going to make any difference. they are already present next door with a large base in ndjamena, and they have a lot of other facilities in the region. what has really changed?

[Singha]

Algerian forces have found the bodies of two Canadian Islamist fighters after a bloody siege at a desert gas plant, a security source said on Monday, as the death toll reached at least 80 after troops stormed the complex to end the hostage crisis.

[Singha]

the french troops generally appear slimmer and more adapted to hot climate than the heavy, meat fed struggling GIs fed on a diet of chicken nuggets and mountain dew for snacks

[Mihaylo]

This is the most awesome pic so far to come out of Mali for me.

No peace-veace shit with this French marine. He's out there to collect Jihadi dog-tags...

Wow !! Super Cool !!
He's not collecting any dog tags simply because jihadi's don't have dog tags hanging from their necks. The only thing hanging on them are their b@lls and he is sure to collect them.

-M

[Prem]

the french troops generally appear slimmer and more adapted to hot climate than the heavy, meat fed struggling GIs fed on a diet of chicken nuggets and mountain dew for snacks

Its still the old, ancient ways. They all use "substance" to remain alert .

[Prem]

^^ Rather silly reasoning there. French certainly don't have India's best interest in mind. In fact when the Mumbai attacks took place, they too claimed "no evidence" that the terrorists came from across the border. They are grabbing resources in Africa for their benefit, not anyone else's and probably at India/China's expense. Cost of oil will be raised by NATO block once they have the majority of the world's oil fields in their hands. The vast multitudes of Asians, Africans and South Americans pay the price.

The Secular pace of GOI in this regard dont give any hope. Chinese will grab the resources for themselves and not in our interests either. They are bigger fastest friend of Islamists. Islamists controlling Mali Uranium cant be good for India escpecially when the Paki AQ Khan still has old connection there on ground.

[shyamd]

The times reports that British forces have been place on standby to support French forces in Mali. Dubbed operation Newcombe

[Neshant]

neshant - west african oil is managed by the global oil cartel, like oil everywhere else. france being physically present is not going to make any difference. they are already present next door with a large base in ndjamena, and they have a lot of other facilities in the region. what has really changed?

Low cost oil\resources for NATO does not translate into low cost oil for India. The whole point of resource grabbing is to lower the cost for the grabber by raising the cost on others.

The Indian oil companies are at the mercy of these invaders when operating in those newly colonized countries. Like Libya, a song and dance is concocted around the grab for oil, gold, money and control over the markets of that country.

I find it silly that some here are buying into the European news spin about fighting "al queda" when in Libya it was islamist "rebels" whom were given support overthrowing Gadaffi. Same in Syria.

It would appear Europe is out if ideas on how to grow its economy or solve its debt problems and has reverted back to the time tested method of resource grabbing. IMO India should look to protect its interest in Africa by setting up at least a basic military presence there both overt & covert.

A whole lot of bogus Libya wars are going to be faught in the name of fighting all queda (which is just a made up name) when really the objective is resource grabbing.

[brihaspati]

The French campaign will be both long and short simultaneously. A new military strategy.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/ ... EJ20130116

People should look at the circumstances under which the French originally had to leave their colonies in mainland Africa. Moreover the topography of Mali - especially in the north is ideal for islamist irregular warfare. No doubt that the oil interests were/are driving both the ex-president and the current one. Or they simply cannot deny the clout of the oil entities. Otherwise they wouldn't have gone into this whose eventual outcome for France as a nation is extremely dubious. Southern portions of Algeria had been the bases from which anti-French struggle ultimately overthrew French authority there.

This is a contiguous mid-Saharan ridge that can provide shelter to islamists for a long time. Since the west will be unable to prevent inflow of cash and weapons sourced by Sunni networks running out of the Gulf and other bases in middle and north Africa - they will not be able to prevent an eventual takeover by the islamsits, just as they have failed to prevent Talebs from coming back to power in AFG.

[Neshant]

I distrust Reuters and especially AP (Associated Press) as a news source. They were blatantly spinng propaganda for their home countries during the invasion of Libya to cover the fact that the country was being invaded for its resources. They spun a tale about rebels building tanks in garages when it was obvious who were supplying so called rebels.

I'm wary of all this news which comes only to support the objectives of those doing the invading. Be careful folks, the info is one sided from these so called mainstream news sources.

[shyamd]

italy announces deployment of Air Force in support of the french. No ground troops though.

[Varoon Shekhar]

"Quote:
In another 20 years we will have threat from Europe's Muslims. Mark my words


'and the Europeans will crush them at that point in any manner needed '-"

But meanwhile, people from these same European countries, like Christopher Jaffrelot, will be very critical of India/Indians/Hindus, for tackling the Islamist menace on Indian soil. William Dalrymple, flawed as he is, possesses a warmth for Hindus, while admonishing them for denouncing Mughal rule. Jaffrelot and a few others of that ilk, are cold, dry jerks, with their noses in the air on anything to do with Hindu sentiments and feelings.

The motive has to be dislike of Hindus, Hinduism and most of all India, as a potential, if not actual, competitor for resources, and a more or less independent owner of ( not great but not unsubstantial) resources of its own. It cannot be love for, consideration for, high regard for, subcontinental Moslems. We can dismiss that idea in a nano-second. The duplicity of these people is incredible.

[Kannan]

neshant - west african oil is managed by the global oil cartel, like oil everywhere else. france being physically present is not going to make any difference. they are already present next door with a large base in ndjamena, and they have a lot of other facilities in the region. what has really changed?

Low cost oil\resources for NATO does not translate into low cost oil for India. The whole point of resource grabbing is to lower the cost for the grabber by raising the cost on others.

The Indian oil companies are at the mercy of these invaders when operating in those newly colonized countries. Like Libya, a song and dance is concocted around the grab for oil, gold, money and control over the markets of that country.

I find it silly that some here are buying into the European news spin about fighting "al queda" when in Libya it was islamist "rebels" whom were given support overthrowing Gadaffi. Same in Syria.

It would appear Europe is out if ideas on how to grow its economy or solve its debt problems and has reverted back to the time tested method of resource grabbing. IMO India should look to protect its interest in Africa by setting up at least a basic military presence there both overt & covert.

A whole lot of bogus Libya wars are going to be faught in the name of fighting all queda (which is just a made up name) when really the objective is resource grabbing.

You're ruining an otherwise informative thread. I know there are delusions galore here but

1)This has very little to do with India, it's more like Walter's relation of everything to Vietnam in the Big Lebowski.
2)France probably does not seriously consider India, China, the Congress party, Sonia Gandhi's pet dog, or the like regarding this operation.
3)This is an action to prevent an incredible swathe of territory from becoming an al Qaeda haven
4)We should get covered sewage going before thinking of superbases in Africa. Get real.
5)Colonialism is 10000000x better than living in a caliphate.

[Rudradev]

Varoon, Western Europe may have produced Christopher Jaffrelot but it also produced Koenraad Elst, Claude Arpi and Francois Gaultier. These gentlemen, I am ashamed to say, do a far more articulate, more assertive, less apologetic job of speaking from a Hindu point of view than nearly any Indian scholar.

[shyamd]

@CharlotteBFBS: UK special forces active in #Mali http://t.co/Nv8sy1CH via @guardian

[ramana]

Folks lets keep out India in atleast one thread.

Thanks, ramana

[shyamd]

Mali conflict: how British forces are helping France tackle Africa's Islamists via @Telegraph http://t.co/9CpmbJT7

[pentaiah]

Welcome back Neshant ji sir ji

The only thing the jihadist understand is ruthless treatment
and did proportionate response

Look at the massive decisive response
Not dancing around
Nip it in the bud

[Singha]

RUSSIA TO WEST: We Told You Not To Overthrow Qaddafi!
Michael Kelley | Jan. 23, 2013, 4:17 PM | 10,755 | 32

On Wednesday Russia blamed Western countries for creating the current turmoil in Africa by arming Libyan rebels, Timothy Heritage and Gabriela Baczynska of Reuters report.

"Those whom the French and Africans are fighting now in Mali are the [same] people who ... our Western partners armed so that they would overthrow the Gaddafi regime," Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told a news conference.

The toppling of Libyan ruler Muammar Qaddafi led to "perhaps the greatest proliferation of weapons of war from any modern conflict," Emergency Director of Human Rights Watch Peter Bouckaert told The Telegraph.

Those weapons stockpiles were raided by both sides, and both sides had connections with radical militants.

In 2011 Pepe Escobar of the Asia Times noted that the main rebel group, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), had formed a "merger" with al-Qaeda in the Islamic Mahgreb (AQIM) in 2007.

And the well-armed Tuareg rebels who fought on Qaddafi's side subsequently returned to northern Mali where they, along with jihadist groups including AQIM, declared the Texas-sized area an independent country in April 2012.

Now France has 2,300 troops on the ground in Mali to retake northern Mali, and several Western countries (including the U.S.) are providing logistical and intelligence support for an offensive that looks like it will take a while.

"The situation in Mali feels the consequence of events in Libya," Lavrov said. "The seizure of hostages in Algeria was a wake-up call."
A senior Algerian official told The New York Times that the militants who seized an oil field in Algeria last week bought their weapons in the Libyan capital of Tripoli.

Russia has also accused the West of arming Syrian rebels in an attempt to topple the regime of Bashar al-Assad, and there is evidence that the allegations hold some truth.

Lavrov noted that the unrest across the Middle East could play into the hands of radical militants.
"This will be a time bomb for decades ahead," he said.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-s ... z2IrFg0WDd

[Singha]

after the overthrow of Saddam, getting Qadhafi out was the next presumed masterstroke to control a resource rich area.

they are trying to keep one step ahead of the game by keeping the islamists engaged in their own territory or redirecting them to soft targets like India, Iran or Syria.

but eventually a blowback is inevitable esp given the growing number of muslims in EU/US ..... there is only so much the pervasive surveillance ops on potential recruits can pick up.

[Lalmohan]

You are all ascribing too much intelligence to the west, the current situation is born from their stupidity. The assumption was that democracy would be a good thing for Islamic countries, give voice to the Arab street, get them on our side... Well the Arab street has spoken and it is decidedly green in intonation - they have chosen Islam and shariah - now they have lost control of Egypt and the Maghreb, the Levant hangs in the balance with no clear way forward and now the Sahel is up for grabs. Sudan has been lost with much of the southern gulf, the oil sheikhs alone remain - and they cannot be trusted. Mali is the new frontline

[vivek_ahuja]

French fries kicking butt out there.

http://youtu.be/bmxxdFcFUw8

Tigre helicopter gunship in action plus an LGB drop...

[ramana]

Lalmohan, Good reading of the overall situation. A case of West being too clever by half.

Nightwatch update 30 Jan 2013


30 Jan 2013

Mali: Military update. In the past three days the Islamist fighters have fled three, and possibly all the major towns in north central Mali. The French and Malian forces have moved quickly to occupy the vacated towns.

On the 25th the coalition forces arrived in Homboro.

On the 26th they reached Gao, captured the airport and found the bridge across the Niger River intact. The French suffered no losses with around a dozen "terrorists" killed, the French defense ministry said. The rebels were said to have fled on foot, or by camel, since there was no fuel.


On the 26th another element reached the outskirts of Timbuktu. Other forces clashed with Islamists at Lere.

On the 27th, during this Watch, French and Malian forces captured the airport at Timbuktu, according to al Jazeera. They plan to enter Timbuktu city on the 28th.

The most important town held by the Islamists is Kidal, which is the next ground target.





Comment: Lacking capable air defense weapons, the Islamists ran. No Readers should interpret that as signaling the conflict is over. Some locals in Gao who spoke with the French media said the Islamists were hiding in outlying villages and apparently hoping for a chance to counterattack.

The good news is that Mali is not Afghanistan. The Islamists are intruders in a normally tolerant, secular society. They are not the leaders or spokesmen of an ethnic uprising. A relatively small number of armed men imposed their will by force. Most northerners oppose them, by all accounts. They have no adjacent country in which to obtain safehaven and support. One man told a reporter that there will be many Malian children named "Hollande," after the French President.

They overreached last year during a period of instability in Bamako caused by an army coup. That condition has been corrected for now. Nevertheless, there will be more clashes.

Niger-Chad: Chadian and Niger troops on Saturday moved to the Malian border to open a new front. The combined forces reportedly reached Gao on the 27th and will garrison that town, freeing the French and Malian forces to continue the offensive towards Kidal.

[Lalmohan]

islamists are fighting a classical guerilla campaign - cede ground, melt into the desert and then strike the exposed logistics tails around the garrison towns. back to the old foreign legionnaire days...

there is no clear end game visualised here (atleast by the west)

[shyamd]

Recent articles in Washington Post, NYT state that they are aware of the fact that it will eventually turn into guerrilla warfare eventually and that the AQIM haven't given up fighting (albeit minimal resistance) openly just yet. But they haven't stated if the french will pull out or what they will do to deal with the guerrilla warfare. They know the people they are up against are Afghan, Iraq vets and they'll use the classic IED tactics etc - so they will impart training to the ECOWAS troops.

This model is following the Somalia model with Kenya, Ethiopian troops taking the lead.

[Lalmohan]

unkil also has a substantial low profile military presence in africa... not very publicised

[ramana]

Nightwatch update from usual place:

Mali: Update. A spokesman for the secular Touareg rebel group, the National Movement for the Liberation of Azawad (MNLA) said Monday that the group's fighters now control Kidal and the nearby town of Tessalit near the Algerian border. There has been no independent confirmation of the claim.


Meanwhile, French media services reported French and Malian troops entered central Timbuktu on Monday.


Comment: Azawad is the name the Touaregs give to their homeland in northern Mali. Curiously, the MNLA is not the group that claimed to have broken with al Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM). That was a more Islamist Touareg group called Ansar al Dine. Ansar al Dine supposedly clashed with and defeated the MNLA at Gao last June.


Allegiances might seem to change swiftly and the two groups appear to be rivals. The tangent between Ansar and the MNLA is advancement of the Touaregs. Thus, it is no coincidence that the Touaregs have groups that can fight credibly on either the government's or the Islamists' side. That way they can advance Touareg interests in greater autonomy and better government services, no matter which side wins.

Right now, the coalition forces are winning and, thus, the MNLA reappears. Ansar fighters probably ran from Kidal.

[shyamd]

Morocco will soon be adding forces to support Mali - GCC sent $2.5b of aid this morning. US boost their security ties with Algiers after Al Amenas incident.

[shyamd]

intel reports from mali indicate the AQIM have just conducted a strategic withdrawal and still have access to cannons and weapons. French and African forces are now anticipating roadside attacks, IEDs etc. They still have arms and men available. They also overestimated the internal problem between Abu Zaid and Belmokhtar. Both are still in contact using emissaries rather than electronic comms.