The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

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harbans
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by harbans »

Agreed the Jagran was superfluous. However i don't think we need to integrate Tibet with India. We need a India-Tibet model something akin to India-Bhutan protectorate model. Yet we must have a deal on the KM area where it becomes a part of India and Tibetans and Indians have exclusive rights to movement and worship. A place to develop for Ashrams, meditation, tourism, worship, rejuvenation etc. But to get there we must change the discourse with China. A massive Dharmic Yatra for Shiv Bhoomi reintegration is required.

Once Tibet is free and a protectorate, Indian troops will have to man the Northern and Eastern fringes. Talks with China to delineate the Northern and Eastern boundaries then will have to be conducted with 'maturity' and an established mechanism for small changes in perceptions made.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

harbans ji,

there are only two models for Tibet to be free.

1) We wear them off in Tibet in a way similar to how the Afghans did to the Soviets in Afghanistan. This means struggle.
2) China explodes, implodes due to economic-political reasons, and the PLA hold over Tibet loosens.
harbans
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by harbans »

Yes and there is a common underlying theme to both the points you mention: That India must stake a claim and put it's point across forthrightly. Hiding behind some border management mechanism that is built on falsehood is a recipe for disaster. When they sit in an office and talk about differences in perception of a few kms here and there on the LAC we should be sitting and telling them from our claim that our perception is that Chinese soldiers should be 4000 kms east of where they are at present. Give and take 4000+/- 15, we discuss that with the Chinese.

In all this we have to remember Tibetans are just some 6 million odd people and many hundred thousand are in India. China is cutting escape routes to Nepal and elsewhere and arm twisting the Nepalese to handover those that cross over. Nepal is awash with Madrassa's and no one is looking into massive native Nepali migrations into the NE, Nagaland where they are getting converted in a mass scale. I have got back a few from missionary clutches in Nagaland back to the Dharmic fold slowly over the last couple of years. India is the big Dharmic daddy for many of these nations. If we slip into Adharma then many of these nations fall. We need a turn around. The rally of this decade should be a rally for freeing Shiv Bhoomi from the clutches of the Han imperialist trampling with impunity on the holiest of holy spots of ours.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by Agnimitra »

RajeshA wrote:Actually we should destroy the Nehruvian legacy in India completely by highlighting that it was Nehru who gave away Kailash and Mansarovar to the Chinese!
Nehru ji liked to give a melodramatic "destiny" angle to his life and its relation with India's national destiny. In his autobiography he says how he was once hiking it up the Himalayas, and at one point turned towards Manasarovar, but an avalanche had blocked his way so he had to abandon the idea and turn around.

I agree that Tibet issue should be hitched to Manasarovar Shivabhoomi Mukti Sangharsh. And these two should in turn also be hitched to a "China come back" narrative, a reproachful wooing of China on civilizational grounds. It is another narrative that needs to be built up, like the discussions we have about Iran. The option China should face is to (a) either re-orient themselves civilizationally so that Tibet then becomes a condominium and spiritual meeting point that may (or may not) nominally be under Beijing's fief, OR (b) face continuing unrest and eventual clashes over ground that Tibetans, Indians and other Dharmics consider holy. As the pitch gets higher, India or Indian groups must give China repeated opportunities to re-orient in a step-by-step manner. If and when Sanskrit 2.0 takes off, it should be extended to various nationalities across Eurasia, including China. Etc.

Thus, the Tibet/Manasarovar issue should be a knife-edge issue that gives China an opportunity to greatly increase its affinity and shared reality with Dharmic civilization (in order to maintain its communication lines with our holy ground)...or to face a drastic break in affinity and connectivity, where the level of shared reality is non-existence and manifestation of communication is Fire.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Āryāvarta
Carl wrote:I agree that Tibet issue should be hitched to Manasarovar Shivabhoomi Mukti Sangharsh. And these two should in turn also be hitched to a "China come back" narrative, a reproachful wooing of China on civilizational grounds. It is another narrative that needs to be built up, like the discussions we have about Iran. The option China should face is to (a) either re-orient themselves civilizationally so that Tibet then becomes a condominium and spiritual meeting point that may (or may not) nominally be under Beijing's fief, OR (b) face continuing unrest and eventual clashes over ground that Tibetans, Indians and other Dharmics consider holy. As the pitch gets higher, India or Indian groups must give China repeated opportunities to re-orient in a step-by-step manner. If and when Sanskrit 2.0 takes off, it should be extended to various nationalities across Eurasia, including China. Etc.

Thus, the Tibet/Manasarovar issue should be a knife-edge issue that gives China an opportunity to greatly increase its affinity and shared reality with Dharmic civilization (in order to maintain its communication lines with our holy ground)...or to face a drastic break in affinity and connectivity, where the level of shared reality is non-existence and manifestation of communication is Fire.
I agree that one could bring China into the fold as well. The reproachful approach is also good.

I think that as we expand the Āryāvarta Union by bringing in countries of Southeast Asia, Mongolia, South Korea and Japan, China would feel increasingly isolated and the imperative to join in would be greater.

Another factor that would play an important role is the general knowledge, military and economic strength of the Āryāvarta Union to act as a magnet.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RamaY »

X-posting. Lot of dhimmitude was posted as wisdom and secularism in this thread before.
Muppalla wrote:Read from bottom to top. Live blogging from NamoSite's Twitter ID.
Shri @narendramodi ji concludes his speech. 45 minutes ago

I am hurt, People have used abusive words for Baba Ramdev, let us pray, that we should move towards truth. @narendramodi 46 minutes ago

This is the work of nation building done by saints, we should at least see. @narendramodi 46 minutes ago

I request baba Ramdev, that there should be a conference of all the educational works being done by saints, @narendramodi 47 minutes ago

Saints should bless me that I dont do anything wrong, may the himayalas give me inspiration. @narendramodi 48 minutes ago

I want blessings so that I dont do anything wrong. @narendramodi 48 minutes ago

For me this is an inspiration, I dont want blessings for some post, we are not born for this. @narendramodi 49 minutes ago

I feel there is more I can do, the saints today have indicated that I need to do more, this is a work order,@narendramodi 49 minutes ago

Today, I received a letter of praise, but saints' hearts think like mothers. But a mother always encourages her children. @narendramodi 50 minutes ago

Patanjali yogpith have believed in our inherent strength and made efforts to revive them. @narendramodi 51 minutes ago

There was a time when our saints had answers to scientific questions. I request Acharya ji to publish today's granth on the internet. CM 51 minutes ago

Some sections questioning our roots, we have ignored that section, but we must strengthen ourselves that such corruptions will be destroyed 52 minutes ago

Earlier there were lots of curfews and violence. Today we dont have such instances of violence anymore. CM 53 minutes ago

I had said, those who voted for me are mine, those who did not vote for me are also mine. @narendramodi 54 minutes ago

I had said, elections are over, time for politics is over, the time has now come to move Gujarat forward, @narendramodi 54 minutes ago

When I won the elections in 2002, some people were unhappy, I had delivered a speech that day. CM 55 minutes ago

We have this inheritance, why should we be afraid? @narendramodi 55 minutes ago

No country can have such a mantra of social welfare. @narendramodi 55 minutes ago

Some people doubt our intentions, I am from the tradition, I have been taught the mantra, everyone should be happy and healthy, CM 56 minutes ago

I do not dream of getting anything, I only want to serve the people of the country. @narendramodi 57 minutes ago

If 6 crore Gujaratis can do this, then 100 cr indians can create an inspiration for the world. @narendramodi 59 minutes ago

Gujarat recovered within 3 years, Gujarat's success is not because of me, it is because of the 6 crore people of Guj. @narendramodi 59 minutes ago

Even out well wishers were sad, but then Gujarat showed what can be done. Even the World bank says developed countries need 7 yrs to recover 60 minutes ago

I believe in hope, I can speak on the basis of my Guj experience, in 2001 when we had an earthquake, everyone said, Guj is over. CM 1 hour ago

We have rejected our strengths, we must connect with all our inherent strengths, then no one will stop us from becoming a leader. CM 1 hour ago

Political leaders and governments have not made this country, our saints and seers have made this country. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Individuals came from within to tackle ills like mistreatment of widows. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Gandhiji helped us move away from untouchability, Swami Vivekananda told us to worship the poor and not idols. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Whenever ills crept into our society, from within our society gave birth to individuals to address those. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

We should look at what our strenghts were, it is our strength to remove those things from traditions which are outdated. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

The work of saving our society was done by our family system, but today we are moving towards micro families. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Any society which lets go of its roots, that society cannot create history, that society which gains strength form history can creat history 1 hour ago

Our country which has endured for 1000s of years, what has saved us, we must save those things, it is our duty. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

There is a section in this country who belives that India was born on 15th August 1947, these people are misled. @narendramodi 1 hour ago


Is this the work of a government? Should we not provide impetus to truth? The saints are working to demolish the roots of these ills. CM 1 hour ago

Despite all the allegations made against him, when we meet he says we are twins, since we both face injustices. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

He started with the intention to keep the people healthy. But after travelling he realized that the country's health is in more trouble. CM 1 hour ago

I feel what Baba Ramdev is doing, I dont think he is doing it with any agenda, @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Come out once, you will have to give answers to the people. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Some people felt that they could muscle the country, even the british failed to do this. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

I want to ask the Shahenshah's of Delhi, and not only me the country is asking. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

I had once asked Baba Ramdev, once gets energy from Yoga, but how does one get energy to bear troubles coming from all sides. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

If one doesnt have a single rupee but wants to stay in haridwar, he can. These saints will make sure he is well fed. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Our saints have not kept their thoughts limited to sermons, they have focussed on actions. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Today people ask Baba Ramdev ji is this your work? He shouldnt answer these people. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Then people used to say, saints only sleep and talk and when they do work, people ask is this your work? @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Ever since I was young, I was pulled towards saints, I come from a small town. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

When I was young, people asked, sometimes I feel, Baba Ramdev ji has pulled the nation towards kapal bhati, @narendramodi 1 hour ago

And today, I am fortunate that I can join Shri Ramdev's gurukul. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Shree Narayan Guru had spent his life for the less fortunate, it is his work that today kerala leads in education. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Sometime back I visited the land of Shri Ramkrishna Paramhans, later I got to visit Kerala, the place of Shree Narayan Guru. CM 1 hour ago

Navratri just got over, I was fortunate that, I long wanted to visit Maa Kali and Bellur Math. CM 1 hour ago

Every time the world has entered a knowledge era india has led. The world agress that 21st century is a century of knowledge. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

He had told this 125 years ago, today India is the most youthful country of the world, the world agrees that 21st century is India's 1 hour ago

Shri Swami Vivekananda had said this a long time back. Is it not the responsibility of every Indian to fulfill his dreams. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Shri Aurobindo had said, I am confident, that India will be independent and will be world developer. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

We have lost self respect, it is important that every indian showcase this inspiration to the world. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

They stay there without fights or troubles, these people come without invitation. Teachers of Management should learn. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Organization of the Kumbh Mela is very difficult. The number of people who come there are equivalent to the population of a European country 1 hour ago

It is our misfortune that we do not talk about the strength of our country. Someone spoke about the Kumbh. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

I request Guinness Book of world records, has anyone met so many people individually? @narendramodi 1 hour ago

If this movement had happened outside India, many universities would have done research on this. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Through yoga he has inspires lakhs of people everyday to stay healthy. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

One can imagine, a person, with a singular goal, one life, one mission has toured the country. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

I have known Baba Ramdev ji since many years. Since the time when he rode a cycle. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

The strength of their words multiplies because of this. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

In my 12 years, no saint has asked anything from the Government. Many people probably dont see this. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

These are people who believe in giving. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

After being the CM of a prosperous state for a long duration, there is no single saint here who has asked me for anything. CM 1 hour ago

In our country, it is easy to say anything about anyone. saying without understanding the strength and value of words has become a habit. CM 1 hour ago

Today, I was fortunate to see all these saints and seers, maybe god wanted to lessen my pain of not visiting Kumbh. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Unfortunately, I couldn't attend this time. Guruji asked me why I couldn't attend. I feel bad that I couldn't attend. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

Since I started understanding things,I have attended every single Kumbh Mela, sometimes I stayed for the entire duration. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

These illustrious saints, who have been blessed with Ma Saraswati, you can imagine what I must be going through here. @narendramodi 1 hour ago

It is considered fortunate to sit at the feet of such saints. Crores come from far to hear them speak. @narendramodi 2 hours ago

Shri @narendramodi ji to begin his address. Join LIVE: http://t.co/89PC61x25X #NaMoInHaridwar 2 hours ago

Shri Morari Bapu to address the event. Join LIVE: http://t.co/89PC61x25X #NaMoInHaridwar 2 hours ago

Shri Ramesh Bhai Oza ji to address the event. http://t.co/89PC61x25X #NaMoInHaridwar 3 hours ago

Vishveshwara Teerth Swami Ji Maharaj will address the gathering now. Join LIVE:http://t.co/89PC61x25X #NaMoInHaridwar 3 hours ago

People of India want @narendramodi. Their heart says so: A saint at the venue #NaMoinHaridwar 3 hours ago

I meet people face to face. People say one thing- get @narendramodi out of Gujarat to Delhi: A saint at the venue #NaMoinHaridwar 3 hours ago

Swami Ramkrishna called a Narendra 150 years ago. Today the nation calls another @narendramodi: A saint at the venue http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 4 hours ago

I remember @narendramodi saying...a fast is not for health but for my mind! says a saint at the venue. http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 4 hours ago

We need a @narendramodi who can say our past was glorious, the future is also glorious. Youth, farmers everyone needs a Modi! 4 hours ago

Nation needs a @narendramodi who takes everyone and goes ahead, who does not believe is divisions: A saint #NaMoinKerala 4 hours ago

So many saints & only @narendramodi...we were asked why only him? asks a saint at the venue. http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 #NaMoinHaridwar 4 hours ago

Gujarat ke dil me @narendramodi hai. Go to Gujarat & see what development is: A saint at the venue http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 #NaMoinHaridwar 4 hours ago

Yogi Adityanath will speak now. Watch LIVE http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 4 hours ago

People of India admire @narendramodi ji says a saint at the venue. Watch LIVE http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 #NaMoinHaridwar 4 hours ago

We invited @narendramodi ji in 2006 and we have called him now too: A saint at Haridwar #NaMoinHaridwar http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 5 hours ago

Yogi Adityanath ji is among the dignitaries on the dais. Join LIVE http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 #NaMoinHaridwar 5 hours ago

Shri Morari Bapu ji, Shri Ramesh Bhai Oza ji on stage with Baba Ramdev and @narendramodi ji. Watch LIVE http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 5 hours ago

Shri @narendramodi ji is Avtaar of Shivaji Maharaj: Shastri ji Maharaj of Warkari community http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 5 hours ago

Shri @narendramodi is on stage with Baba Ramdev ji and other seers. Watch LIVE http://t.co/aZnf7nrWf3 5 hours ago

. @narendramodi ji and other dignitaries on stage light the ceremonial lamp. Join Live: http://t.co/89PC61x25X #NaMoInHaridwar 5 hours ago

Shri @narendramodi ji had performed 'havan' at Patanjali Yogpith. #NaMoInHaridwar Live: Aastha TV and http://t.co/89PC61x25X 5 hours ago

Shri @narendramodi ji arrives on stage. Live: http://t.co/89PC61x25X #NaMoInHaridwar 5 hours ago

Inauguration function of 'Acharyakulam' begins in Haridwar. @narendramodi ji to arrive soon.Live: http://t.co/89PC61x25X #NaMoInHaridwar 6 hours ago
member_20317
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by member_20317 »

YamaR ji,

you heard Baba Ramdev ji invoking 'Akand Bharat' in Acharyakulam speech. And NaMo invoking Sri Arubindo's vision of India.

http://www.infinityfoundation.com/manda ... ameset.htm

India as a Helper and a Leader of the Whole Human Race
August 15th is the birthday of free India. It is also Sri Aurobindo's birthday. On this day in 1947 Sri Aurobindo gave a message to the nation on the All India Radio. Sri Aurobindo outlined there his prophetic vision for India, for the globe and for the human race. He wrote,

"August 15th is the birthday of free India. It marks for her the end of an old era, the beginning of a new age. But it has significance not only for us, but for Asia and the whole world, for it signifies the entry into the comity of nations of a new power with untold potentialities which has a great part to play in determining the political, social, cultural and spiritual future of humanity...
"I have always held and said that India was rising, not to serve her own material interest only, to achieve expansion, greatness, power and prosperity, -- though these too she must not neglect--, and certainly not like others to acquire domination of other peoples, but to live also for God and the world as a helper and a leader of the whole human race."


<snip>


Are Indians more spiritual than other people?

A disciple once asked Sri Aurobindo if Indians were more spiritual than other people. Sri Aurobindo replied,

"No, it is not so. No nation is entirely spiritual. Indians are no more spiritual than other people. But behind the Indian race there lives the past spiritual influence. . ."
"India has the greatest chance because of her past and because the spiritual force is accumulated here. . .But if India remains indifferent and sticks to old worn-out forms and refuses to move forward or listen to the call of her soul, then the Truth may recede and try somewhere else." (India's Rebirth, pp 175, 184)
Agnimitra
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by Agnimitra »

Based on previous discussions and posts on BRF:

Sanskrit 2.0 and Diversity Policy - 1
Sky and Earth: Sanskrit and Other Languages
Because of this, Sanskrit has a unique relationship to all Prakrits. The Prakrits are vernacular languages in India or any other country that participates in Sanskriti (a culture of refinement). Since its most ancient times, Sanskrit has itself borne the mark of all Prakrits who participated in the culture of Sanskriti. Even the language of the Vedas is considered distinct from nearby Iranic languages because it bears the stamp of "Dravidian" phonetics from South India in its very rudiments. Conversely, a classical Dravidian language like Tamil reveals in its heart an inseparable contribution from Sanskrit in all its aspects, even in its word for "yes" (आम्) / ஆம்)!

Sanskrit does not compete with Prakrits for mindshare, but instead it absorbs their matter and distills it - and then returns the favour by enriching them with a more refined product. Consider an analogy:

Under the warmth of a shared sun, water evaporates from the various rivers, seas, ponds, even the most contaminated gutters, marshes and swamps, and forms clouds in the skies. Depending on the direction of the winds of time, the clouds move and discharge their distilled product. Similarly, Sanskrit has traditionally always absorbed material from all the subcultures that formed part of a shared sphere of civilization, and dispensed its influence on communities related to those fields of human endavour that most absorbed that civilization in any particular era. It re-formed, crystallized and standardized words and meanings according to the best knowledge of the day, and replenished those same Prakritic sources with semantically adjusted words that were standardized across the civilizational span at any given point in time.

Therefore, the Prakrits contribute to Sanskrit, and vice versa. They have a mother-father relationship, and enhance not just one another, but contribute differently and in parallel to the psychological and intellectual development of the children that speak both. May this union revive and prosper.
RajeshA ji, do you blog? If not, you should, so that it is easier to cross-reference on the web and share. Or I could just add you and other interested members on this anonymous blog Parikramah. That way we could just copy over certain "summary" posts onto the blog for easy archival and reference. In any case, as a sequel I will put up your Sanskrit 2.0 and Diversity Policy guidelines if that's alright.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Carl ji,

I am not blogging right now!

You are welcome and free of course to put up the "Sanskrit 2.0 and Diversity Policy" on your blog. You could perhaps link that to the post here on BRF in this thread, if you wish.

The subsequent post may be of some value to you as well, perhaps.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Factional Dynamics of a Civilization

We have over the years observed many different attacks by different civilizations on Bharat's body and mind. Perhaps one can look at reasons why these attacks manifested in the way they did.

We saw how Islamics have competed in ravaging the Dharmo-Āryā Sabhyata. Islam made it a doctrine to punish the "pagan", the "idol-worshippers", and the title of Ghazi was given to those who did the most and destroying the knowledge, teachers and backbone of the Hindus. Our libraries were burnt, the Brahman class were massacred and the Kshatriya class were converted, co-opted or fought. And all Islamic invaders, rulers, native-converts and Islam collaborators did so. It was not the work of a single individual. It seems there was a veritable competition among the Islamics to do the "good work" of attacking the Dharmo-Āryā Sabhyata. The tools used were the standard ones - submission, dhimmitude or destruction.

Similarly we saw that the Europeans, the Western (Judeo-Christian) Civilization started the colonization drive, and each country in Europe competed with the other in conquering colonies, and plundering their cultural treasures, their wealth and their resources. Today the West continues this competition, there still are factions, but the tools of this factional competition and domination may have changed.

Now we see the Chinese trying to expand and threatening war against Japan, South Korea (via North Korea), Vietnam, Philippines, India and other countries. In the past the Han Chinese have taken over vast areas of Asia - Tibet, Turkestan, etc.

What we often overlook is that in such civilizations - Islamic, Western, Sinic, the competition between various factions is not only carried out through various wars between them, but often this competition is conducted by showing each faction's ability to subdue other civilizations or parts of them.

The position of each faction within a civilization is dependent on each faction's ability to increase the influence and domination of the civilization outwards. But when the other civilizations attacks, perhaps as a means of retaliation, then the competition between the factions is carried out by their contribution in the defense of their civilization.

This is something one would see in terms of Islam, West and China.

This is what gives each civilization its strength!

This is also a truth that Indians have forgotten and thus have lost their position as a civilizational pole! Various factions among Indians are not fighting for Dharmo-Āryā Sabhyata at all, but as agents for the other civilizations - for Islam, West or China. Instead of being a 'Civilizational Pole' we would have become the 'Battlefield' for the others, the 'Front Line'.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Factional Dynamics of a Civilization

The longer these agent factions are allowed to dominate the power structure of Bharat, the longer they would be able to eat into other power centers of India and corrupt them also in the name of power-sharing and loot-sharing.

At the moment there is a tenuous alliance between these compromised power-factions in India, because through this collective domination, their first priority is to destroy the native civilizational foundation. When they do not face any more competition from the native civilizational base, then they can be assured that they have finished a rival civilization completely.

Then the "Collective Alliance of Agents of Foreign Civilizations" can move on to the next stage where they compete among themselves.

When one or the other civilization has completely devoured India, then the next level of competition is between the various factions of the same civilization.

So one can be certain that there are factions from among other civilizations which want to subdue India and they have entered an alliance. These factions of other civilizations may of course be competing with other factions of the same civilization as well.

So for Battlefield India, in case of Islam, the question would be which Islamic faction delivered Islam to the Ummah? The Pakistanis are trying to do so, as at the moment their standing within the Ummah is not really much.

Same way, in case of Christianity, both Vatican and Baptists are competing to deliver India to the West. Previously British-sponsored Macaulayites had been successful in delivering India to the West. We still have not healed from that.

Also there may be factions in China who may be trying to deliver India to China. The delivery may be of various strategic geographic areas, whole tribes which may share some Chinese racial-morphological trait, or simply political and media influence which may be supportive of China.

Originally posted by kmkraoind in "Managing Chinese Threat" Thread

Published on Apr 27, 2013
By Madhav Nalapat
Jiang group in Chinese army behind incursions: The Sunday Guardian
Jiang Zemin has considerable influence within that section of the military leadership that is known to have substantial funds abroad, as evidenced by family staying or studying in (NATO-bloc) countries. Although former President Hu Jintao sought to cleanse the PLA of such corrupt elements, "the power of the Jiang group meant that he had only very limited success during the decade (2002-2012) that he was in power". Hu's successor Xi Jinping is known to be similarly opposed to the culture of greed and graft spawned under the Jiang years (1991-2001) and is also facing resistance to his clean-up efforts from those unwilling to give up their extra-legal privileges.
Following on the success of Huawei in the telecoms market and Chinese power companies in energy plants, Chinese companies are looking to India to sell infrastructure equipment and projects. "Should tensions grow, Huawei may be once again barred from the Indian market, while Chinese companies would be barred from energy, finance and infrastructure sectors," a senior official worried at PLA activism pointed out, adding that "already China has lost more than $120 billion of (additional) Japanese investment and may lose an equal amount in the India market" should the Jiang group have its way in racheting up tensions along China's periphery. "The Jiang Group wants to sabotage Li's India visit, which is why they have got friendly elements in the PLA to launch a Chinese version of the Forward Policy just weeks before Li's scheduled arrival," claim sources tracking developments in China.
These sources point out that "both the Pakistan as well as the US lobbies within the PLA are eager to sabotage cooperation with India", and that Xi Jinping's open call for military to military cooperation between Beijing and Delhi has been followed by efforts at a coordinated hard line towards the Taliban in Afghanistan. Such moves have alarmed the Pakistan and US lobbies within China, who are both working through their agents to sabotage the Xi Jinping reset in relations with Delhi, these sources claim.
----

So basically it is other civilizations competing in India. Bharatiya Civilization does not seem to have much of a say even though all of the stake!
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by member_20317 »

Continuing with the meditation from the previous post:

Here is one more.

Image
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by Agnimitra »

Sanskrit 2.0 and Diversity Policy - 2
As regards globalization, whether people are willing to notice it or not the choice is actually between Succumb via haphazard Anglicization, and Control via methodical Sanskritization.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Wonderful Sanskrit
Carl wrote:Sanskrit 2.0 and Diversity Policy - 1

Sky and Earth: Sanskrit and Other Languages
Because of this, Sanskrit has a unique relationship to all Prakrits. The Prakrits are vernacular languages in India or any other country that participates in Sanskriti (a culture of refinement). Since its most ancient times, Sanskrit has itself borne the mark of all Prakrits who participated in the culture of Sanskriti. Even the language of the Vedas is considered distinct from nearby Iranic languages because it bears the stamp of "Dravidian" phonetics from South India in its very rudiments. Conversely, a classical Dravidian language like Tamil reveals in its heart an inseparable contribution from Sanskrit in all its aspects, even in its word for "yes" (आम्) / ஆம்)!

Sanskrit does not compete with Prakrits for mindshare, but instead it absorbs their matter and distills it - and then returns the favour by enriching them with a more refined product. Consider an analogy:

Under the warmth of a shared sun, water evaporates from the various rivers, seas, ponds, even the most contaminated gutters, marshes and swamps, and forms clouds in the skies. Depending on the direction of the winds of time, the clouds move and discharge their distilled product. Similarly, Sanskrit has traditionally always absorbed material from all the subcultures that formed part of a shared sphere of civilization, and dispensed its influence on communities related to those fields of human endavour that most absorbed that civilization in any particular era. It re-formed, crystallized and standardized words and meanings according to the best knowledge of the day, and replenished those same Prakritic sources with semantically adjusted words that were standardized across the civilizational span at any given point in time.

Therefore, the Prakrits contribute to Sanskrit, and vice versa. They have a mother-father relationship, and enhance not just one another, but contribute differently and in parallel to the psychological and intellectual development of the children that speak both. May this union revive and prosper.
Carl ji,

I liked both of the blog posts.

I think the Sky-Earth model is a great way of looking at Sanskrit-Prakrits relationship - one of distilling, refining. In this way, Sanskrit is in fact one of Bharat's most profound but also unique achievements.

Sanskrit was a huge knowledge refinery set up in Bharat to standardize not just language but thinking itself, with each discovery, each thought in any Prakrit looked at and then integrated into the refined meta-language Sanskrit in the most harmonious way possible.

Atri garu speaks of how one could upload knowledge from one's Prakrit to a common base, Sanskrit, and from there others could download the knowledge into their own Prakrits.

One could consider Sanskrit as the ultimate Semantic Component Architecture, using which it is possible to represent a whole semantic graph as succinctly as possible, perhaps even with a single word.

Declensions and inflections are available as out-of-the-box features to cater to grammatical case, number, gender, prepositional relationships, time, aspect, modality, comparison, possession and speech-part transformations. Nuance, flavor and color are also available through the huge vocabulary palette.

What however made Sanskrit as a meta-language was the constant refining of phonemes and word stems aligning them with the philosophy around their reality.

This ultimately allowed Sanskrit to be a WYTIHIS tool - What you think is how it sounds, a WYHIWIM tool - What you hear is what it means!

Semantic compression achievable through Sanskrit allows one to make much larger semantic graphs in mind and thus become capable of more complex thinking.

The relationship between Sanskrit and Prakrits could also be understood according to the lateralization of the brain theory. Whereas in Prakrits one nurtures culture, emotions, life and thus can be represented as a right-brain phenomenon, one can project Sanskrit as a left brain phenomenon, where one can expression oneself logically. As with the left brain-right brain domination theory, here too one should not think about exclusive domains, but rather as a cooperative apparatus.

True Shuddh Hindi and other formalized national languages at the state level in India too have taken over some of the "load" and "role" of Sanskrit, but they remain a mid-way house, and Sanskrit can still sit on top of these and continue to nourish these too as Sanskrit is a meta-language.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:Factional Dynamics of a Civilization

The longer these agent factions are allowed to dominate the power structure of Bharat, the longer they would be able to eat into other power centers of India and corrupt them also in the name of power-sharing and loot-sharing.

At the moment there is a tenuous alliance between these compromised power-factions in India, because through this collective domination, their first priority is to destroy the native civilizational foundation. When they do not face any more competition from the native civilizational base, then they can be assured that they have finished a rival civilization completely.

Then the "Collective Alliance of Agents of Foreign Civilizations" can move on to the next stage where they compete among themselves.

When one or the other civilization has completely devoured India, then the next level of competition is between the various factions of the same civilization.

So one can be certain that there are factions from among other civilizations which want to subdue India and they have entered an alliance. These factions of other civilizations may of course be competing with other factions of the same civilization as well.

So for Battlefield India, in case of Islam, the question would be which Islamic faction delivered Islam to the Ummah? The Pakistanis are trying to do so, as at the moment their standing within the Ummah is not really much.

Same way, in case of Christianity, both Vatican and Baptists are competing to deliver India to the West. Previously British-sponsored Macaulayites had been successful in delivering India to the West. We still have not healed from that.

Also there may be factions in China who may be trying to deliver India to China. The delivery may be of various strategic geographic areas, whole tribes which may share some Chinese racial-morphological trait, or simply political and media influence which may be supportive of China.
Very important post.
Also there may be factions in China who may be trying to deliver India to China.
This faction is the Bap** faction inside PRC which is working on the geo political moves. Please bring this discussion inside GDF

More later
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RamaY »

RajeshA garu,

You should collect all your posts and start bringing them together as a e-book and put it on Amazon as a free book or for a very small price.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by Agnimitra »

^^^ I second this. Just keep copying your well-structured summary posts from BRF onto your blog or e-book. Almost zero effort.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY ji, Carl ji,

thank you for your kind words.

I have thought about this, and I hope someday I will be able to translate this into some e-book.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Acharya garu,

I have cross-posted these to the "Future Strategic Scenario for Indian Subcontinent" Thread.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:RamaY ji, Carl ji,

thank you for your kind words.

I have thought about this, and I hope someday I will be able to translate this into some e-book.
Why dont we get a BPO to do it for you, Please send email and I can get this done for you. Fully edited book
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Acharya garu,

I'll come back to you on your generous offer of help! Thank you!
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by Prem »

Acharya wrote:
RajeshA wrote:RamaY ji, Carl ji,

thank you for your kind words.

I have thought about this, and I hope someday I will be able to translate this into some e-book.
Why dont we get a BPO to do it for you, Please send email and I can get this done for you. Fully edited book
Great thought and if possible ( if Rajesh dont mind)ask Daddu Kaushal to add his material too. This amalgamated Chatni can spread as much "proper" info to make it Bharat Manthan in one Granthan for AamJans effected by PSECU-RNI syndrome.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RamaY »

RamaY wrote:
dharmaraj wrote:regarding namo's "not being hindu neta onlee"; i can only say that we gotta deal with it.
i only see him as a leader who can bring-
1. governance
2. better economy
3. better business opportunity
4. mic
5. strong foreign policy

i do not expect any constitunional amendment or ram mandir or kashmir or tibet or mansarovar from him
these tasks are better left for new upcoming leaders who are hungry for letting the world know about their hindu roots.
there will be "hindu onlee" leaders, just give some time.
for the time being- even if i did not liked what he said, he is the best option available.
and...oh... certain posters are being very protective of modi when they stop others from criticizing him. they even go and say " namo is not a leader for you " .
well this is not required. namo is our leader but he is not above criticism.
There is a definite need for a Bharatiya leader to assert his/her Hindu identity and ideology.

This is nothing unusual. Even in the oldest democracy, sole super power, secular of the seculars, most open society like USA also demanded that Obama asserts his Christian identity before becoming acceptable to the Americans. So there is nothing wrong Bharat demanding its Prime Minister and President assert their Hindu identity and ideology before they become acceptable to the Hindu majority.

However this is not allowed to happen because India is plagued with secularism, which suppresses the rights of the majority and admonishes any assertion of their identity. The secularism must be kicked out of Bharat first. I pity those idiots who think and say Indian minorities cannot be safe and progressive in a Hindu Bharat.

PM of India being non-corrupt, nationalistic, offer good governance and even extend Indian Interests is not good enough. By some of these measures even some Moghals and British are more effective Indian leaders than the current congress system.

I asked this question before. Should India convert to Islam, so it can reunify Bangladesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan to form an undivided Islamic Emirate of Bharat? That will make majority of our security concerns removed and make us more powerful and even secular?
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY wrote:I asked this question before. Should India convert to Islam, so it can reunify Bangladesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan to form an undivided Islamic Emirate of Bharat? That will make majority of our security concerns removed and make us more powerful and even secular?
RamaY ji,

in many ways Islam is the antithesis of Āryatva.

So basically the price for this could be too great, as it would involve leaving the path to knowledge and adopting the path of submission. Once the whole society adopts Islam, its whole way of social organization changes, which means that the means of elite-building also change. Once the criteria for rising in the elite changes, the system becomes entrenched and there is no return to the old.

But since we are discussing this hypothetically, there is a time for conversion, and that is of one's own free will, when one is at the peak of one's power over the others. When one has defeated the believers. If one coverts at that time, then basically one receives the loyalty of all.

So if we were to defeat the entire Ummah in some bloody battle and then convert, then we would be placed at the top of the Islamic Pyramid. That is how Turks managed to place themselves on top, even higher than the Arabs, as feared Ghazis. However if one converts as a defeated people, with a sword on the neck, then one goes down to the very bottom of the pyramid. That is where the Subcontinental Ajlafs are - at the bottom of the Islamic pyramid.

Of course if one is at the top of the Islamic pyramid and militarily supreme, one gets to dictate the rules to everybody else. But which rules to dictate. They would most probably be Islamic Shariah.

But there is a possibility that we as the new militarily supreme elite adopt Islam only superficially and manage to keep a core pure Ārya hidden from everybody else and then as rulers we can corrupt Ummah to such an extent, removing all resistance, that there is a break from the past.

This is something similar to the Taqiyyah that the Nehru-Gandhi family has played on us by outwardly presenting themselves as Hindus but keeping an uncorrupted core of something different. So this scenario would simply be the reverse of that.

How to go about this, one would have to study the Mongols and the Turks. However this strategy is extremely dangerous and chances are that one would end up destroying one's own culture.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RamaY »

RajeshA garu,

My post was to make following points

1. Bharat is a Hindu country and there is nothing wrong to assert that identity.
2. Any Bharatiya leader must assert their Hindu identity and faith.
3. Anyone questioning that would make them unpatriotic for they are saying religious minorities are not safe and progressive in Hindu India, putting them in Jinnah's bucket.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by member_23686 »

RamaY ji

being a fellow jingo, i would prefer if namo show some more hindutva... but we do not have any influence over him.

he is not perfect but he is the best option available.

so for the time being i'm okay with economy and mic while we wait for "hindu only" leaders
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by member_23686 »

here is what i said few months ago... this was before namo started secular trains. note that even back then i considered him "aathik leader only"
dharmaraj wrote:i'm putting my vision in a timeline. gurujans can add.



1. namo happen- economic reform- remove propaganda from education- take steps towards creating a system that rewards hardwork- proper law enforcement (5years)



2. start a movement for ownership of all symbols and memes that have been misappropriated by west- start capturing humanities section in all indian unis- positive representation of our memes in bolly/tolly/holly/whatever wood (next 5years)




3. bring necessary changes/constitutional amendments to move towards a system based on our memes- use economic strength to remove anti-bhartiya propaganda from western unis- become global center for scientific research (next 5years)




4. birth of a new generation that is rooted in our memes and have no doubts about their bhartiya identity and understand that beacon of values only shine in strong hands



note- every process is continuous, i'm just mentioning their start. time can differ, give or take 3 years

^^^

above is my Vision, Agenda, Proposition of how things should be... pretty simple isn't it
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY ji,

I think one of the basic ways Indians have been manipulated are, are through the manipulation of psychology of pride.

Much psychological engineering has taken place to convince Indians not to be proud of their past. Successive defeats, non-violent victories, virtues of sacrifice and considerate attitude, supremacy of tolerance, etc. all have been used to shift the Indians from feeling pride in their culture and history to feeling pride in their "goodness". "Goodness" of course is something whose definition and narrative have been firmly in the grip of the British, Nehru-Gandhi dynasty and their sponsored saints.

They tell us what is "good" and we were supposed to lap it up. Even though neither the Brits, nor the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty ever had to follow that "goodness".

If questioned, they used to distance themselves from the narrative, calling it universal, and then taunting us with "Doosrey kooeyn men koodenge to tum bhi kood jaaoge kya?", keeping us firmly boxed in into the "goodness" corner.

However all of this nautanki has a solution - the Bhagavad Gita and the Ramayana! The Bhagavad Gita clearly defines perfection in action. Ramayana clearly defines perfection in attitude. So all this secular brain-washing can really help only as long as our Itihaas is kept away from us.

That is one reason, West or Judeo-Christianity can never really digest Sanatan Dharma. They can never digest Ramayana or the Bhagavad Gita.

So for us "Goodness" is defined by our Dharma and Dharmic texts, and "Seculars" can go tehl lagaane!

So as time passed, Nehru-Gandhi had to include some mantra of growth and wealth generation as well to that pride mix based on secularism. However even that mantra has lost its steam with the Nehru-Gandhi populism and corruption. So it is back to only secularism and their hope that there are still Indians out there who still retain some legacy "goodness" they were brainwashed with.

Modi has however started to align Indians' sense of pride to their history. And not just that but has captured the growth mantra from the Congress. So basically the whole discourse of pride has changed in India, and not just pride, but the definition of "goodness" is also changing, and Modi's rise would only shift "goodness" to where it was supposed to be - in the feet of the Mother and of the Guru.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:RamaY ji,

I think one of the basic ways Indians have been manipulated are, are through the manipulation of psychology of pride.

Much psychological engineering has taken place to convince Indians not to be proud of their past.
The biggest weapon the British have used against Indians is the false praise and flattery. It has given them great rewards over the last 200 years
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Āryāvarta Union

Āryāvarta is the land of the āryā people, of sajjana people, of dharmic people.

It is a land ruled by Raj Dharma!

There are many countries today, that still retain past Bharatiya civilizational influence on them - Nepal, Bhutan, Tibet, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, Bali, Mongolia and to some extent Vietnam, South Korea and Japan as well.

In many places it has given space to Islam and Christianity like in Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines. The effort should be to pull these countries back into the Dharmic fold.

I think it is important that Bharat reinitiates a process of Dharmic revival in these countries, where the leaders of these countries sit together and look for ways of bringing Dharma to their societies.

The dialogue should move away from this Western framework of international dialogue that has been set up.

The countries should come together and integrate themselves on a deep civilizational basis, leading to
  • common language Sanskrit,
  • visa-free travel,
  • monetary union,
  • single labor market,
  • a free trade area,
  • a single military (common defense) and
  • a networked military industrial complex.


Countries that can be part of the Āryāvarta Union are:
  • Bharat
  • Nepal,
  • Bhutan,
  • Tibet' Central Tibetan Administration,
  • Sri Lanka,
  • Myanmar,
  • Thailand,
  • Singapore,
  • Cambodia,
  • Bali,
  • Mongolia,
  • Vietnam,
  • Fiji,
  • Mauritius,
  • South Korea and
  • Japan
Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines can be given status as dialogue partners.

The only pledge all these countries need to make is that the state would give maximum support to Dharma. The treaties made within the Āryāvarta Union would be honored and all would stand as witness to these treaties!

If Bharat can pull off something like this, we would automatically become the largest free trade union and have the largest standing military.

Often European countries within the EU have used the excuse of EU legislation to push internal laws and policies. Similarly if Bharat becomes part of the Āryāvarta Union, Bharat can force internal legislation as well, e.g. w.r.t. common national language - Sanskrit 2.0! Similarly the excuse of Āryāvarta Union can help Japan come out of its self-defense military cocoon! Also it would allow the countries to move away from the twisted "secularism" and openly come out in support of Dharma!

I don't think we all need to become dharmically pure before we take such a step, nor should we look at it as we need to become invincible before we bring others under "our leadership". The weakness in Indian State's structures are there as a fact. We should look at the Āryāvarta Union as a means of overcoming these.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Āryāvarta Union

I think many at some point on another while looking at strategic options of India has indulged himself/herself is such transnational alliances in which India can be a part of. It is also possible that one may have thought of a similar union as suggested here, and may have come to it based on some common civilizational background. So what is so "innovative" about the suggestion here? Of course, one cannot claim innovation in strictest sense of the word as one wouldn't know whether nobody had similar ideas earlier. But it is worth looking at the salient feature of such a suggestion.

The major salient feature of such a union is "Pursuit of Dharma"!

The skeptics would say, what has that got to do with international relations. These skeptics however forget that the economy based alliances and unions one sees, especially in the West, say EU or NAFTA, etc. are based on long period of Western domination, and the underlying framework developed out of the civilizational churning in the West. Other civilizations - Islamic, Sinic and the Dharmic have contributed very little in the form of ideas to it.

In the East, one has ASEAN who may have tried to encourage internal trade, but there is zero chance of any form of political union among them and thus less of a chance of even military cooperation. The civilizational glue is missing!

EU on the other hand has plenty of civilizational glue and thus they have been able to pursue a much deeper cooperation, including on questions of security and foreign policy.

ASEAN for example is ill positioned to really function as a military pact like NATO, offering a common defense. That is why lately Vietnam and Philippines have found out that nobody in ASEAN would really come to their aid or support from ASEAN when they are pitted against Communist China in their border disputes.

So whereas the West has NATO for its defense, Ummah has Jihad networks for its security needs, and China has the PLA, all other countries in Asia do not have any such system of common defense. All these countries may have a lot of commonality in culture and history but none of it translates into a common security and foreign policy. It does not translate into a civilizational assertion. Much of their civilizational resources have been detached from their political leadership and on a transnational level have simply no voice. Often one hears from Southeast Asian countries that they look for leadership from India but it is not to be seen. This is a symptom of a huge lack of Bharatiya leadership as a civilizational pole in the world. If India is not interested in protecting its own civilization, does not even want to identify with its civilization, why would India move to defend the civilizational richness and security of all those other nations who shared in our civilization.

That needs to change!

One builds alliances around civilizational poles and drivers. They are built based on a need for close political dialogue, security, commonality on social issues and external affairs. Secondarily in order to strengthen the glue, economics play a major part in such alliances. But the cultural and security aspect take precedence.

The skeptic's thinking is centered around economics and thus the skeptic would get it wrong, as one tries to push concepts and deals which do not harmonize along culture of the people.

In the Indo-Pacific Region, the common denominator is really Dharma and the subliminal Bharatiya cultural impact. This is what we all share, and all the various inhabitants of this region in some form or another still value their Dharmic heritage and nurture it.

However as Dharma was relegated to monasteries, temples and privacy of home, it's role in the affairs of state has decreased, and one reason for it has been the ubiquity of Western thought and western concepts of ethics and morality which have taken over politics and society's laws. But in each person's life, it is still there and can be tapped into.

Narendra Modi and Baba Ramdev have lately encouraged Sant Samaj to again take a pro-active role in guiding the politics and society of the land. Basically it is the same concept only applied over the whole Indo-Pacific region, and for the Sant Samaj of all these lands to come together and thus reestablish the common cultural and ethical core.

Each country wants to impact the world through its culture and thinking, but the platform from which these Āryā people can do it is not there. Each country is longing for better sense of security. Each country wants improve the living standard of its people. Each country is struggling with how to slow the decay in society. So basically each country in the Indo-Pacific region is looking for solutions to similar problems.

Once established, Āryāvarta Union would become a civilizational power and provide the common ethical and political platform of Dharma over which each nation can present its own cultural flavor.

Such a union is not just because there was some common cultural influences, which is looking only at the past, but that is based on the future, based on a framework which would guide the thinking and politics of the country and that would be Dharma.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Āryāvarta Union

What are the political compulsions for creating this union?

Answer is: China, West and Islam.

All these countries face either a real security challenge in the form of China, or second class humiliating status in a West dominated world, or terrorism and bullying from Islam's various minions in their lands.

No country, neither Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Myanmar, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Mongolia, Thailand is really able to face these challenges alone, and the current political alignments in the world do not strengthen the hands of any of these to face the challenges.

India and Thailand face Islamic terror. All of the countries face Chinese aggression. This needs to stop.

Coming together in a grand security alliance would change that. It means Indian military and Japanese technology can merge. It means the Āryāvarta Union control both the security of the Indian Ocean as well as the First Island Chain in the Pacific.

A single Āryāvarta military would provide security to each and every country. A security challenge to one country would mean a common security challenge to all. It would mean there would be a single integrated military looking after the security of Senkaku Islands, Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO) in Ladakh and Indo-China Sea (otherwise also called South China Sea). All countries would have a single nuclear umbrella and a single missile defense system. All countries would be responsible for the security and independence of Taiwan. All countries would be responsible for forcing China out of Tibet and Inner Mongolia.

There would be a single foreign policy towards China, West and Islam, both cooperative and adversarial.

That can happen only if we put Dharma right at the core of the Āryāvarta Union, for only then would be have civilizational glue to do all that.

All these countries would express some form of enthusiasm for the idea, but only as long as we place Dharma in the middle.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RamaY »

RajeshA garu,

Would the Aryavratta have democracy as in one man one vote? What happens if Asuric get majority vote?
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Āryāvarta Union
RamaY wrote:Would the Aryavratta have democracy as in one man one vote? What happens if Asuric get majority vote?
RamaY ji,

The concept of Āryāvarta Union is based on EU, as a Confederation. Each nation chooses its own government based on its own tradition. Each nation as such is a sovereign nation.

Each nation has to embrace Dharma and make it a core part of its identity and system of ethics. For that each country would have to embed Dharma into their Constitution and pledge full support to its dissemination through education, social policies and state protocol.

Asuricta depends on concentration of power and lack of Dharmic Jñāna. I don't think there is a danger of that.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Āryāvarta Union

The question is would Southeast Asia and East Asia be willing to accept a Bharat-driven process of integration, where the cultural context of much of Dharma is Bharat-specific. There will be many who would accept Ancient Bharat's role in the civilizational evolution of these countries but it does create a certain inequilibrium.

If we are going to have a Bharat-born philosophy at the core of the Āryāvarta Union, and simply by virtue of Bharat's size an inordinate amount of influence in all areas, so the problem is how to straighten the cart.

As such my suggestion would be to have the Japanese Emperor also be accepted as the Cakravartin of Āryāvarta, a largely ceremonial position, similar to how Queen Elizabeth II is the Head of the Commonwealth.

It may seem an unnecessary concession to the Japanese, but the marriage of Japanese Emperor and Bharatiya Sanskriti would prove as a strong and stable foundation on which to build Āryāvarta Union.

Besides there is no better way to give massive pain to the Chinese in all eternity!

Also such a concession would give India the ability to claim a different permanent position, e.g. in the Āryāvarta Security Council.

If Āryāvarta is to have a single integrated military then this organization would need a political leadership. For decisive decisions this body should ideally consist of three countries - a permanent member, Bharat and two other countries whose membership in the Council revolves among the other members, each country being able to occupy the seat for a period of 3 years.

Other than that there could of course be other bodies, somewhat modeled on EU.

This creates a balance of power along the arc running from Japan to India!
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RamaY »

^ The Cakravartin of Aryavarta should always be in Bharat proper. Of course they can marry one woman from every member of the union; which is called Dakshinadheesa (Bji will like this word - Dakshniadheesa and its desert equivalent :D)
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Āryāvarta Union
RamaY wrote:The Cakravartin of Aryavarta should always be in Bharat proper.
If one offers the Japanese this largely ceremonial position, then they would sign on the dotted line for whatever union. Otherwise I doubt they would agree, for they would indeed ask what is in it for them, and whether the proposal is so good that they should break away from their Pacific alliance with USA for that.

Without the Japanese, the union is not going anywhere, as Bharat does not have enough pull to set up this union.

One could also consider the alliance between India and Japan as a marriage of Software and Hardware respectively.

So I disagree with you. The Cakravartin of Āryāvarta would have to come from outside Bharat!

May be you may like to suggest something symbolically powerful which should come from outside India in order to satisfy others as well!
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by Prem »

RamaY wrote:RajeshA garu,

Would the Aryavratta have democracy as in one man one vote? What happens if Asuric get majority vote?
IN Aryavarta, Asuras will be morphed into Arya vratas while on the WestEnd 75 %Assuras will be removed to enlighten the burden of Prithvi.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

An Alternative Approach: Militarization and Expansionism

Cross-posting from "Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II" Thread
brihaspati wrote:As I had speculated a long time ago - its the inevitable slide towards more appeasement of foreign imperialist religions and allied imperialist or neo-colonial moves against India. Things will have to get a lot worse before things can be turned around. In the process, it will be good if the old rashtryia functionaries and their institutional continuity with the British past of the subcontinent - get removed from activity.

Current centre-right leadership that many pin their hopes on - will be forced to compromise, both externally as well as internally with the Hindu-Islamic collaborative networks of finance, crime and politics that have held sway in central GV.

What India should prepare for - is war. India must expand territorially, and must reclaim its cultural hinterland. This extends right upto Iran in the NW, to the Gulf in the west - and includes both Pak and AFG; goes up to the southern edges of Russia in the north and Sinkiang and end of the Tibetan plateau in the NE, and up to Thailand in the SW. This has to be done in stages with proper excuses and justifications built up carefully but ruthlessly.

India must develop its own MIC, and it must plan for an initial campaign that destroys Pak completely and rolls back China from Tibet. The aim should be to provoke as much of the male populations of both countries to take up arms so that we have the maximum number of armed combatants on the field from them. We have to destroy the very base of their societal sources of militancy, so that the word Pak is never again used, and the Han see the eastern ridge mountains of Tibet as the forbidden gateway to hell. The very backbone of those two societies have to be broken in such a manner that no nation by that identity ever stands again with their sadistic imperialism.

We need 12-20 years to build up for this. Neither of the existing centre-left and centre-right will be allowed to develop along these lines. This is the task of the next generation. Keeping in mind that they will be constantly penetrated by external and internal subversives, agents provocateurs, as well as attempts to get implicated in blackmailable situations.

A clear cut militarization programme is needed, and the army resourced and mobilized towards the eventual expansion plan. The younger lot, have the opportunity to do this - economically, organizationally, politically. We have danced to others tunes for a pretty long time. We decide now what our agenda about our neighbourhood should be. We will destroy the very basis of the nations that have consistently remained our relentless sadistic enemies, and we will target their manhood, their industry, their economic spheres. Every action of war should be targeted at destroying the future capacity to rebuild their armies and therefore a skewed depopulation of the male portion is necessary, and as much destruction of their economic infrastructure as feasible.

Once these nations no longer exist as viable threats - those who are interested in painting India as peacefully swept away in love onlee without any retaliation whatsoever - can start propagandizing about their fantasy again.

The alternative towards the future - lies in the heart, mind, and cold ruthless planning of the youth who will be entering crucial activity sectors of the nation over the next 15 years. Each of you can keep that eventual target in mind, and do your bit wherever you are. When the time comes, there will be 100's or thousands of your fellow walkers to come together and decide what form of organization you need to give overt shape to that objective.

It should be legal, popular, massive, organized. It should be so that if the superstructure of the rashtra fails to keep up with that momentum, it will be the rashtra's fault - and not yours.
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Re: The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition

Post by RajeshA »

Āryāvarta Union
brihaspati wrote:What India should prepare for - is war. India must expand territorially, and must reclaim its cultural hinterland. This extends right upto Iran in the NW, to the Gulf in the west - and includes both Pak and AFG; goes up to the southern edges of Russia in the north and Sinkiang and end of the Tibetan plateau in the NE, and up to Thailand in the SW. This has to be done in stages with proper excuses and justifications built up carefully but ruthlessly.

India must develop its own MIC, and it must plan for an initial campaign that destroys Pak completely and rolls back China from Tibet.
brihaspati garu,

I think there is a need for a tectonic shift, so that the water in the river starts flowing in a different direction. Now the tectonic shift can be sudden and violent, or it can be gradual but consistent with repeated tremors occurring, all which over time causes more and more water to shift direction.

With sudden and violent tectonic shifts, it may or may not be possible to determine the ultimate direction in which the water flows. With gradual but consistent tectonic shift, it may be possible to calibrate the direction of flow more precisely.

I think what we need is more control over the mechanism for tectonic shifts. We need to put a process in place which slowly but surely ensures the tilt in the direction we wish.

Just like the Nehru-Gandhi sociological engineering has steered Indians over the precipice using erosion technology like Macaulayism, Dhimmitude, Cultural Marxism, Yuppieism, etc. hoping that at some point it becomes a landslide after a critical mass has been achieved, the Bharatiyas too need to start our own Geoforming.

Of course we can stop the Macaulayism, Dhimmitude, Cultural Marxism, Yuppieism-related decay. We could also strengthen the Bharatiyas psychologically and militarily, however we need to also think that be it the West, Islam or China, they are all acting with cohesion and purpose to undermine India and often collaborating to do so both globally as well as internally in India through our political, social and education systems.

I think to take on this level of challenge we would need a bigger weapon, not as a substitute for the buildup of our own muscles, but as a force-multiplier.

I think for this we may need to harness all of the Dharmic soul that is left in all of Asia, coalesce it, and bring it to bear.

We need to stabilize the Bharatiya foundation using multiple tethers. In fact by tethering ourselves to each other, the Dharmics in Asia can hope to stabilize all of us individually and collectively. As Bharat tilts towards Islam and lose our lands to China, and lets itself be hollowed by the Western termites, we need an external tether, or multiple external tethers.

It is in this regard, that I advocate the Āryāvarta Union!
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