China Watch Thread-I

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UlanBatori
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by UlanBatori »

Nitrogen tetroxide - nice stuff. Nitric acid fumes onlee.
But consider - India is no push over unlike 1962 (or so one hopes). It would not be a short war victorious or otherwise.
Just like predicting that Indian Team will not collapse against fast or spin bowling, I have my deeeeeeeeeep doubts. For example, look at Indian Bank: First Major Nationalized Bank to Adopt Digital India. All I have to say is a single Digit (middle one) salute. The scumbags messed me up AGAIN this year on the simple task of getting TDS done properly and sending me Form A-16, despite year-ling cajoling at various levels.
I think too much of India is External Hype and Internal Vacuum (or pakistan). Are the Armed Forces **REALLY*** exempt from this? After 8 years of SoniaMMS rule? I sure hope so! Kargil was superhuman by any standard, but things got so bad because of --- u got it--- 'chalta hai' - and it turned out that logistics was bad, kids had no BOOTS, let alone parkas, they had no ammo...

Do that against Dlagon and it's all over. Now Dlagon has its own internal realities, but in war there is no doubt that that the PLA does not run, they fight and they kill and they are extremely well-planned. Compare infrastructure on the 2 sides and you see that it may not be a total run-over, but only because there are no good roads on Indian side. In 1962 India had a lot of veterans of Burma and El Alamein and Europe wars. Now it's ppl who don't even remember Kargil.

..And, if u look at Northern Kerala (aka North of Himachal Pradesh), u c that PLA has coolly occupied and brought heavy infrastructure development: mountain roads, railroads, probably a lot of takeout restaurants as well. They're busy damming up the Brahmaputra, expanding the Karakoram Hwy, etc etc. What does India have to show? PLA comes and terrorizes Arunachal farmers, and IA can't do diddly about it. Why do ppl think that if there is War (planned to the last detail and 27 levels in Beijing) suddenly India will be "no pushover"? It will be a miracle of Dilli manages to conduct a chai-biscoot En Ess Ay meeting b4 the PLA shows up in Gurgaon.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Hitesh »

I have no idea what you are discussing about, N^3. Can you come straight to the point, pls?
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Vayutuvan »

UB ji: By the time "War (planned to the last detail and 27 levels in Beijing)" is complete, India might very well have occupied Gilgit Balsitstan, kicked pakistan's nusharraf out of POK and make swacch bhArat and cut off the Karakoram tip at the chinese end.

I am not sure mandarins move any faster than our mantris and more importantly the real masters of our mantris - babu log. or so one hopes.
It may never come to that if yuan goes down the sh**ter. Then they will have to deal with 100 tiananmens. In 1990 they had only one big city to speak of. Now thy have those everywhere. Let us not forget the restive Hong Kong and their tarrel friends playing games in Xinjiang.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 30 Aug 2015 19:51, edited 1 time in total.
Hari Seldon
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^PLA operates its own bureaucracy - no IAS type MoD baadshaahs there.

Also, no 'civilian oversight' kinda BS at the theater command levels in PLA, or so it seems....

Yup, we are woefully underprepped for yet another sino-India shove-shove. Not to mention PLA hackers will have shut down almost all civilian comms in Des by then, too. Dhoti shiver and all that only.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by UlanBatori »

Can you come straight to the point, pls?
Yes. It is a bad idea to speculate on any Sino-Indian war. Makes us look Makes ppl realize that we are stupid in addition to weak.
After all China is India's Gentle But Mighty Neighbor on the north. And northwest. And northeast. And now southeast (tip of Myanmar). And west (Gwadar). And South (Hambantota and Colombo and soon Tirukōṇamalai). And South-south-east (Seychelles). And inside (Aksai Chen, Arunachal Pradesh; Maoists/ULFA/Nagas/Naxalites/Kerala/Chattisgarh/Madhya Pradesh/Andhra/Orissa/Jharkhand). And outside (all the Leading Academics in the USA and the Leading Universities in the USA such as Berkeley).
Chinese submarines patrol the Indian ocean, the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea.
Chinese aircraft carriers can project power on any of India's coasts.
China cranks out F-17 Thundaaars probably at 10 per week, can crank them out at 1000 per week if needed. India cranks out will 'soon' be cranking out LCAs at (never mind).

They control water to the Indian wheat crop.
And to 60% of the Indian population in the north/northeast belt.

In any war with anyone lasting over a week, Chinese manufacturing will crank up and pump out replacements for any losses and equip new invasion Divisions much faster than either the US in WW2 or Soviet Union in WW2. Imagine 10,000 F-17s flying the Wong Wei against 100 LCAs. Dhoti-Shiver!

So WATCH China (which is what this thread is for), learn, prepare quietly, scramble like crazy to build infrastructure, demand better conditions for Indian soldiers, root our corruption, rebuild the military procurement system, logistics, empower the farmers in North Kerala to shoot back at the PLA, root out the Marxists. Avoid chest-thumping.

And be neighborly. Maybe provide some reciprocal Foreign Aid like China provides so generously to Indian Marxists, Maoists, Academics etc. In North Kerala (aka Tibet), North Andhra (Xinjiang), and perhaps other deserving places.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Vayutuvan »

Xinjiang has another advantage. Plausible deniability - no need to say anything. Everybody will assume tat the "moral help" is coming from the musharrafs of tarrel and deepel fliends.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Hari Seldon »

Meanwhile, we can breathe easy knowing at least this - that the quality of defence reporting that is actively focussed on PRC has suddenly shot up in India. Sample this...

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UlanBatori
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by UlanBatori »

That is because it is easy to spot submarines if they are hidden in Tibet. Closer to the satellites, u know..
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Vayutuvan »

guru UB ji: praNam. You are in top form this weekend.
UlanBatori
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by UlanBatori »

See? China has good SWAT teams as well.
Swatted the Al Jazeera gang like flies.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by UlanBatori »

Another gentle peaceful vacuum burst in China
A (gentle vacuum burst) shook a chemical plant in an industrial zone in China's Dongying, in Shandong province, shortly before midnight on Monday, according to state media.There were no immediate reports of casualties. One person died last month after a blast hit a chemical plant in a different part of Shandong last month. The Twitter account for People's Daily reported Monday night's explosion, as did state radio. Dongying's population is about two million.
Sensationarist imperialist report:
Another huge brast at a chemical facility has reportedly occurred in the Chinese province of Shandong. The explosion, located in an industrial zone in Lijin, Dongying City, happened late on Monday, China's People's Daily reported.
The brast was so massive it could be seen and heard from a great distance. A chemical factory is believed to have been in the area (now only smoking crater). According to People's Daily, the blast happened at around 11:30pm local time (3:30pm GMT).

The plant in Shandong province which caught fire on August 22 produced hundreds of thousands of tons of adiponitrile – a toxic colorless liquid which releases poisonous gases when it reacts with fire, local media reported.
Just out of curiosity: Who provide bijnej/ commercial fire insurance in PeeAllSee? Guvrmand or LoundIce?
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Singha »

it seems all the chinese space launch sites are inland, albeit in sparesely populated areas. so the 1st stage after burnout falls on areas where people live...and they are expected to suck it up and take the odd hit for the motherland
http://gizmodo.com/part-of-a-rocket-eng ... 1727544878
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Singha »

they are completing a 4th site in hainan or maybe done already to ease the task of launching into GTO...
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by kmkraoind »

China pins market plunge on financial journalist, airs ‘confession’ :rotfl:
Wang Xiaolu, a reporter for a respected Chinese business magazine, "confessed" to causing chaos and panic in the markets, state media reported Sunday.

In footage broadcast Monday morning on CCTV, China's state broadcaster, a weary-looking Wang said he obtained information about China's securities regulator "through private channels" and then added his "own subjective judgment" to the report. "During a sensitive period, I should not have published a report which had such a huge negative impact," he said.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Singha »

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/20 ... ire-000211

China: The new Spanish Empire?

The Chinese crisis has important echoes of the Soviet Union and 16th-century Europe. And history tells us the outlook isn't pretty.

The Chinese turmoil roiling markets right now presents a fresh and profound challenge to the world economy: For the first time, a giant, non-European superpower threatens world financial stability and the powers that be seem at a loss. If the IMF and World Bank have stumbled with Greece, how are they going to get a hold on the stock market travails of Communist China? What tools do we even have to affect how it plays out?

But if the particulars are novel, in the bigger sense this is a movie we’ve seen before. Though China has been the global economic star of the last low-growth decade, it remains a totalitarian dictatorship, with its economy shrouded in state secrecy. What we’re encountering in this crisis is the spectacle of a closed society colliding with the forces of complex, free-market capitalism. If we look beyond China, we can find a long history of these collisions, dating back hundreds of years, as both closed societies and capitalism evolved and became more complex. And the history has a clear but unsettling lesson to offer: When such a collision happens, it’s a moment to genuinely worry.

Since the dawn of capitalism, closed societies with repressive governments have—much like China—been capable of remarkable growth and innovation. Sixteenth-century Spain was a great imperial power, with a massive navy and extensive industry such as shipbuilding and mining. One could say the same thing about Louis XIV’s France during the 17th century, which also had vast wealth, burgeoning industry and a sprawling empire.

But both countries were also secretive, absolute monarchies, and they found themselves thrust into competition with the freer countries Holland and Great Britain. Holland, in particular, with a government that didn’t try to control information, became the information center of Europe—the place traders went to find out vital information which they then used as the basis of their projects and investments. The large empires, on the other hand, had economies so centrally planned that the monarch himself would often make detailed economic decisions. As these secretive monarchies tried to prop up their economies, they ended up in unsustainable positions that invariably led to bankruptcy, collapse and conflict.

In Spain, the result was a slow collapse, which has left it and its former empire suffering from perpetual economic crisis and political instability. In France, an open society would eventually be born through monarchial bankruptcy that pulled down banks around Europe, and ended in violent revolution and the vastly destructive Napoleonic wars.

More recently, Germany long struggled with the mix of modern industry, capitalism and authoritarianism. Throughout the 19th century, and into the 20th, Germany experienced massive economic growth under the hand of Bismarck’s central political authority; the result was a period of great strength, followed by crisis, war, political upheaval and the geopolitical and moral catastrophe of WWII.

And though we tend to forget this now, the Soviet Union experienced massive economic expansion for half a century. America feared it not only for its m military, but for the industrial might, expanding GDP and technological achievements that added heft to its ideological challenge around the world. Only after the collapse of the USSR in 1991 did we fully understand what was really going on behind the curtain. In financial terms, Soviet secrecy was very effectively shrouding the massive liabilities of the state. It had admirable steady growth, industrial production rates, and GDP rose—so much so that even until the early 1980s, the CIA saw the Soviet economy as a credible, competitive force. But in order to sustain economic growth, we can’t just look at output; we also need to see the long-term cost of the output, and the Soviet system allowed its leaders to shroud the unsustainable costs in inefficiency, lives, and environmental destruction that eventually brought down the empire.

China is a new case, for it has mixed capitalism and totalitarianism in a unique way. Unlike the USSR, there are privately owned companies and public investment. And yet behind banks, companies and the stock market still lies the heavy hand of the state. The Chinese government forces investment in the stock market and bolsters banks, companies and state entities with secretive cash infusions; it and hides toxic assets in its enormous and completely secretive sovereign wealth funds. The government may not be able to control the stock market, but it does successfully keep a veil over state finances. This is what closed, authoritarian governments have done since the 16th century.

China is now playing in world financial markets, but those markets are dynamic and resilient in part because they are relatively open—they can fail, but it’s reasonably clear why, and, in the best cases, the paths to reform are debated in public forums. In China, there are the mechanics of capitalism without the essential spirit of the system. As in imperial Spain, or Cold War Russia, there is neither transparency nor trust. There is no question that China has massive growth potential until its population curve starts to turn, but what we are seeing in this current financial crisis is likely to be only the beginning of the political and societal crisis brought about by a dictatorship’s efforts to simulate the performance of a capitalist economy—but one that only grows. The stock market is not real; government financial statistics are fake and obscured.

There is no historical example of a closed imperial economy facing large capital-driven, open states and sustainably competing over the long term. That is not to say that China isn’t an economic powerhouse and a remarkable site of energy and potential. It is certainly both. But we also know Chinese debt—as secret as the state likes to keep it—is enormous, and that its financial system is like any other bubble. It is predicated on inflated earnings reports and expectations. The great “Beijing Consensus,” China’s absolute commitment to showing 8% growth every year, is unsustainable, at least through legitimate means. And without it, China is beginning to look like an enormous totalitarian ponzi scheme—a phenomenon common enough in world history, but extremely dangerous to be near in the long run.

It’s tempting to look for quick policy solutions, or—for some political candidates—to wave around threats as a way to gain leverage. But almost by definition, a society like China is immune to our efforts: if we don’t actually know what’s going on, it’s difficult to exert even our limited influence in an intelligent way. In the short term, the best goal to push for is more transparency, in the hope that sunlight helps mitigate whatever shock is still coming. And until then, a healthy skepticism might be the best protection we can offer ourselves.

Jacob Soll, a professor of history and accounting at the University of Southern California, is the author of The Reckoning: Financial Accountability and the Rise and Fall of Nations.
UlanBatori
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by UlanBatori »

Reading this, it just dawned on me that this is exactly what has been going in the Ulan Bator Yak Stables and Dung Generation Plant for the past 16 years. Make that 32, but the rate is getting worse like an exponential. "an enormous totalitarian ponzi scheme"."dictatorship’s efforts to simulate the performance of a capitalist economy—but one that only grows". "unsustainable costs in inefficiency, lives, and environmental destruction". :shock: :eek:
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Suraj »

Foreign Policy magazine has a long detailed article throwing a bucket of cold water in the face of China's new 'we were WW2 winnahs!' parade.
China Lost World War II
Forget Beijing's victory parade: in 1945, China was a failed state.
The parade also represented a shift of focus. It was the first military parade held on any day other than Oct. 1, the anniversary of the 1949 founding of the People’s Republic of China. Past parades reflected the moment of triumph when the Chinese Communist Party defeated the Nationalists in a four-year civil war — ending the “century of humiliation,” which had begun in the 1840s when the British defeated China in the Opium Wars. The year 1949, in Chairman Mao Zedong’s words, was when the Chinese people “stood up.”

The new message, however, is that in the 1937-1945 war against Japan, China not only stood up, but stood tall among the world’s great powers. China paid a hefty price for defeating a mighty enemy — according to this new narrative — and the world should be grateful for the selfless sacrifice it made in the process of taking its rightful place among leading nations. In President Xi Jinping’s words, China undermined “strategic coordination between Japan’s fascism and German fascism” and by doing so “significantly raised China’s international position.”

However, the message of Chinese-led anti-fascist solidarity in Asia, while it suits Beijing’s present-day agenda of benevolence and global responsibility, is a profound misreading of history. For China, 1945 did not bring glory — just more suffering and humiliation. In that year, China lay prostrate after years of devastation and misery. Although on paper China was a great power — with U.S. insistence, it was made a permanent member of the newly formed U.N. Security Council — in reality it was treated little better than a defeated nation: its fate decided in its absence, its territory partially occupied, its industry looted, and its internal politics subjected to relentless and decisive meddling from the outside.

There were, of course, victors in the war against Japan. But China was not one of them. Although China had fought the Japanese the longest (since July 1937), it was the American onslaught across the Pacific that ultimately brought the Greater Japanese Empire to its knees. And to finish the job, the United States didn’t need China’s help — it needed the Soviets. At the Yalta Conference in February 1945, U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt asked for Soviet Premier Joseph Stalin’s participation in the Pacific War, and promised to recognize Soviet gains in Asia, which included military basing rights, a railroad across the Chinese northeast, and the “status quo” in Mongolia — by which Stalin meant its final separation from China.

Chinese leader Chiang Kai-shek was furious when he learned about the terms of the agreement. These were questions that concerned China’s sovereignty, and he was not even consulted — worse, he was not informed for weeks. He might have expected that from the Soviets, but the Americans going behind his back to sign off on Stalin’s imperialist demands was truly painful. “It’s an insult,” Chiang wrote in his diary. “They really see China as their vassal.”“It’s an insult,” Chiang wrote in his diary. “They really see China as their vassal.”

In June 1945, Chiang dispatched his brother-in-law, China’s Premier T.V. Soong, to Moscow to negotiate a treaty of alliance with Stalin and, so Chiang hoped, wrestle concessions from the Soviet leader. In these grueling, bitter, late-night discussions in his Kremlin office, Stalin left the Chinese no hope for compromise.

The Soviet leader was not moved. “Sign treaty now,” he snapped.

Soong deferred to Chiang, and on July 9, 1945, the Chinese leader made the painful concession, renouncing rights to Outer Mongolia. Stalin was equally uncompromising with regard to the Manchurian railroad — which the wily dictator had actually sold to the Japanese in 1935 for 140 million yen — approximately $682 million today — but now wanted back for free. Stalin insisted on the right to transfer troops across Chinese territory and to maintain his naval base near the northeast Chinese city of Dalian on the strategically important Liaodong Peninsula, which Tsar Nicholas II ignominiously lost to the Japanese after the 1904-05 Russo-Japanese War. What the tsar had lost, Stalin now gained.

Chiang knew that he had no leverage. Soviet troops were poised to overrun Manchuria: The Soviet invasion of the area began on Aug. 9 while the treaty was still being negotiated. He felt helpless in his wartime capital of Chongqing. His tired armies looked bigger on paper than they were in reality. The economy was on the brink of collapse; the government struggled to cope with plummeting tax revenues, a shortage of goods, and runaway inflation.

Chiang’s only hope was that Stalin was already beginning to see the United States as its enemy, and so would not see China as a major object of his appetites. On July 28, Chiang wrote in his diary, “I can do a Turkey” — by which he meant preserving some freedom of maneuver by pursuing neutrality, as Turkey had done near the end of World War II. Doing like Turkey was not the most dignified scenario for postwar China, but Chiang thought that the alternative was Stalin recognizing the Communists and slicing up the country, just as Japan had done after 1931 by setting up puppet states across northern and eastern China.

In 1945, China was on the verge of falling apart. The Communists were moving swiftly to fill the vacuum left by Japan’s departure from northern China — but they were not the only threat. Ethnic groups living along China’s northern fringes, from the Mongols in north China to the Kazakhs and Uighurs in the vast northwestern region of Xinjiang, sensed that China’s weakness offered them a rare opportunity to achieve independence. Most worryingly for Chiang, Stalin supported these national liberation movements.

In late 1944, the Uighurs, a predominantly Muslim ethnic group concentrated in the Chinese northwest, had captured power in the northern part of the vast territory of Xinjiang. Stalin effectively directed the insurgency — the Soviet Union supplied not only weapons and ammunition, but also advisors and troops. Newly declassified documents from the Russian archives show that by the summer of 1945 the Politburo, the top policymaking body in the USSR, resolved to “spread the national liberation movement” across the region in order to “create intolerable conditions for the Chinese troops in Xinjiang,” and help insurgents and other discontents “carry out sabotage, mainly killing personnel and destroying equipment, and disrupting lines of communication.”

In the nearby region of Altai, which bordered Western Mongolia and what is now Kazakhstan, the Kazakh bandit-turned-revolutionary Osman Batur launched guerrilla operations against Chinese troops. Stalin did not want to directly help Osman. But Stalin asked the Communist leader of Outer Mongolia, Khorloogiin Choibalsan, to supply the Kazakhs with guns, which Choibalsan did in February 1944. Some 105 camels transported Soviet weapons across the desolate, frozen Mongolian frontier, as Choibalsan, following Stalin’s instructions, urged Osman to fight on: “Comrades, if your honest struggle reaches its goal, the Kazakh state can become like our state.”

Choibalsan did not confine himself merely to helping the Kazakhs in their anti-Chinese insurgency. As the Soviets entered the war against Japan in August 1945, thousands of Mongolian soldiers joined them. Their goal was not to liberate China, but to liberate the nearly 900,000 ethnic Mongols living there. “Many centuries of hope and primordial aspirations of our Mongols have been to win for ourselves freedom and independence as a sovereign state,” Choibalsan announced on Aug. 10, declaring war against Japan. “Our declaration of war will be a revenge of our peoples. On the other hand, it is quite important to liberate our blood brothers, groaning under the yoke of the Japanese samurai.”

Archival documents show the scope of Mongolian ambitions: The leaders of the then-still-unrecognized republic dreamed of a “Great Mongolia” extending as far south as the Great Wall and the Pacific Ocean. The head of the Soviet diplomatic mission in Mongolia, Ivan Ivanov, who witnessed these sentiments, reported to Moscow that although such expansion was bound to bring a large number of ethnic Chinese within the borders of an enlarged state, this was not seen as a problem because Mongolia would “obtain [a] cheap work force, which it will use in the interests of the Mongolian people for the work at construction, at factories and in the agriculture, while keeping the leading role to the Mongols.”

If these prophets of anti-Chinese liberation had their way in 1945, the consequences of the Second Sino-Japanese War would have been even more disastrous for China. Chiang was not in a position to prevent the establishment of the Republic of East Turkestan in Xinjiang or Great Mongolia across much of northern China, short of going to war against the USSR, as he had gone to war against Japan in 1937, a war that he could not possibly win.

Fortunately for China, Stalin, after toying with Choibalsan’s proposals for some months, finally turned him down in February 1946. Similarly, the newly proclaimed Uighur homeland, the “Republic of East Turkestan,” enjoyed only a few months of quasi-independence: In October 1945, Stalin forced the Uighur insurgents to negotiate peace with the Nationalists and, later, with the Communists. In August 1949, he had the leaders of the uprising flown out for additional consultations in Beijing in a Soviet government plane, which then conveniently crashed in Siberia, killing all aboard. In the meantime, Osman also lost Soviet and Mongolian support, then tried briefly to cooperate with the Nationalists in the Kuomintang. In 1951, the Communists finally captured and executed him. These voices of aborted liberation are scarcely remembered nowadays, but they provide a useful counterpoint to the China-centered narrative of anti-Japanese resistance that was on display in Beijing’s Sept. 3 parade.

Stalin had good reasons to pull the plug on the national liberation movements in Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang. After Chiang made all the concessions Stalin asked him to make, the Soviet premier felt his position in China was secure. Even China’s Communists were no longer deemed a very important asset: to Mao’s extreme annoyance, Soviet troops in the Chinese northeast began to hand over control over occupied cities to the Kuomintang rather than the Communists. After months of uncertain maneuvering between the two warring parties, the Soviet army withdrew in May 1946, having dismantled much of Manchuria’s industrial capacity for carting back to Russia as a war trophy.

In the summer of 1946, after less than a year since Japan’s capitulation, China fell into all-out civil war, which meant more misery and privation for the long-suffering Chinese people. The odds were stacked against Chiang for, unlike the Nationalists, the Communists escaped the Sino-Japanese War practically unscathed. By 1946, Mao was in a position to reap the fruits of victory that fell from Chiang’s feeble hands.

Chiang was unfortunate to lead a country during a brutal dual war, but he presided over a government and a party ridden by factions that he barely managed to reconcile. The sheer incompetence and corruption of the Chinese government added millions of victims to the millions raped and murdered by the Japanese. Indeed, some of the worst tragedies of the war — from blowing up the Yellow River dikes in 1938 (intended to stop the Japanese advance but which lead to immense flooding, and killed over half a million Chinese civilians) to the awful famine in the province of Henan in 1942-1943, when as many as 3 million people starved to death — were largely self-inflicted. By the time it was all over in 1945, Chiang — and his China — were practically finished, and Mao stepped in to claim his laurels.

Mao’s moment of triumph arrived in 1949, when he finally chased Chiang to Taiwan, and the Communists consolidated their control over most of the mainland. For decades, the Communist Party blotted out the memories of the Sino-Japanese War as secondary to the narrative of the Communist revolution. Mao even liked to “thank” the Japanese for the war in China, because the invasion “educated” the Chinese people. Without the war, the Chinese Communists would never have defeated the Nationalists.

The Sino-Japanese War killed between 14 and 20 million Chinese people. But the Communist revolution, which the war precipitated, dwarfed this gruesome toll: Between 1946 and 1976, tens of millions died from fighting, repression, and starvation.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Singha »

everything - good and bad seems to happen in china in a series of giant convulsions not in a trickle. it is a region only a 'strongman' can rule and so it has been for 1000s of years since shi huangdi.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by hnair »

Ouch, that article is rude. So that long-banned 50center Wong, was foretelling the direction of the Chinese official narrative!
Suraj wrote:Foreign Policy magazine has a long detailed article throwing a bucket of cold water in the face of China's new 'we were WW2 winnahs!' parade.
China Lost World War II
Forget Beijing's victory parade: in 1945, China was a failed state.


Archival documents show the scope of Mongolian ambitions: The leaders of the then-still-unrecognized republic dreamed of a “Great Mongolia” extending as far south as the Great Wall and the Pacific Ocean. :oops: The head of the Soviet diplomatic mission in Mongolia, Ivan Ivanov, who witnessed these sentiments, reported to Moscow that although such expansion was bound to bring a large number of ethnic Chinese within the borders of an enlarged state, this was not seen as a problem because Mongolia would “obtain [a] cheap work force, which it will use in the interests of the Mongolian people for the work at construction, at factories and in the agriculture, while keeping the leading role to the Mongols.”
Fast forward todin, Walmart certainly seem to know their Comrade Ivan Ivanov.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Singha »

http://www.ibtimes.com/china-navy-ships ... us-2082733

with pressure in the SCS, it was inevitable they needle the khan elsewhere and they have enough ships to keep doing it worldwide now.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by hnair »

^^^ says this:
The U.S. has forcefully challenged China's claims to sovereignty in the disputed airspace, flying B52 bombers through it without notifying China first, the Wall Street Journal reported. China had threatened to take military action against aircraft entering the zone without prior notification, but took no such action.
Sounds like "boneless chicken manchurian"

Due to lack of large opponents, the western miltaries are slowly relegated to "law enforcement" duties, where even lawyers need to be looped into the kill-chain at yonder UAV base near Vegas. Duties which need lower budgets and lesser of Costco-size killing machine orders. So Khan loves a largish opponent and will manufacture one, where none exists. How else will they justify budgets to keep things shiny and hollywood?
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by UlanBatori »

Quite true, quite true! Which is why this is excellent news The CNN videos on China's military displays, esp. their simulations dreaming of airborne raids on US bases, show much promise of getting COTUS excited. They apparently have missiles called "Guam Killer" and "Carrier Killer". And look at those cool blue tanks with the TianMen Student-lubricated Treads.

Comlade Wong Wei's videos against our Guru Brar_W's videos. Which Virtual Reality wins?
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by UlanBatori »

Sanctions against China for cyberattacks on the U.S. private sector could come as early as next week, U.S. officials told CNN Friday. The package of penalties on individuals and commercial entities believed to be responsible for the attacks has been in the works for months, and a government official familiar with the process confirmed to CNN earlier this week that they were getting a serious look.

Conventional wisdom had been that the sanctions would not come until after Chinese President Xi Jinping's state visit to Washington at the end of the month. Experts believed the White House was looking to gain leverage by the credible threat of sanctions to bring the Chinese to the negotiating table on the unrelenting stream of cyberespionage coming from Beijing.
For years, the U.S. has spoken out against Chinese hacking of U.S. businesses to steal intellectual property, which has ramped up since last year. In May 2014, the Justice Department indicted five Chinese military officials for allegedly stealing trade secrets from companies based in the U.S.
Chinese military officers Gu Chunhui, Huang Zhenyu, Sun Kailiang, Wang Dong, and Wen Xinyu were indicted on cyberespionage charges.

Though the sanctions would deal with economic espionage, the move would also come in the shadow of the massive hack of the Office of Personnel Management that stole more than 21 million sensitive files of government employees -- which U.S. officials have blamed on the Chinese.

But the sanctions would bring the debate to a new level and be the first time the U.S. has imposed a tangible penalty on China for the hacks tied back to Beijing itself.

The sanctions authority that would be invoked comes from an executive order signed by Obama in April, which gives the administration the ability to sanction entities worldwide for engaging in cyberattacks against U.S. targets.

The U.S. has sanctioned Chinese entities in the past for a range of offenses, including narcotics and support terrorism, and has levied penalties against North Korea under a pre-existing sanctions regime in response to the crippling hack of Sony Pictures Entertainment.
The nascent executive order, however, has yet to be used -- and going after China for the first use of the power would send a message that the U.S. intends to aim it at the highest targets rather than low-level offenders.
"The position of the Chinese government on cybersecurity is consistent and clear-cut. China is steadfast in upholding cybersecurity," Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said in a statement responding to the 2014 indictments. "The Chinese government, the Chinese military and their relevant personnel have never engaged or participated in cybertheft of trade secrets. The U.S. accusation against Chinese personnel is purely ungrounded with ulterior motives."
Xi's visit is scheduled for September 24 and 25.
(Isn't NaMO here same time?)
kit
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by kit »

wasnt the US (and some allies) doing the same against most of the world via ECHELON ..correction ..isnt the US .. not only economic but also political and military ..not just the internet but also most of everything else :roll:
Global spy system ECHELON confirmed at last – by leaked Snowden files
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/03 ... _campbell/
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Multatuli »

Analysts: Beijing Parade a 'Bazaar' of Stolen Technology

http://www.voanews.com/content/analysts ... 46768.html

The above report contains nothing we didn't already know.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Singha »

the pain that cheen has inflicted on US tech cos to share technology, and also pushing them out in favour of domestic champions, condoning IP theft etc is in part a retaliation for US spying,
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by hnair »

Odds are high that khan very-tightly controls the "espionage leaks" to cheen. khan operates for high monetary margins and misdirections using leaks is vital for protecting the really dark part of budgets. Veterans who had to undergo DC's tech control security workflows in this forum can probably attest to that, but they wont :lol:

The only places worst than grim gulags is the supermax that is surrounded by an ocean of "freedom and liberty".
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Singha »

I am not talking about star wars/f22 kit but more mundane yet still cash cow commerical technologies. cheen runs the worlds biggest effort in stealing such techs from anywhere. take a PET scanner or DLSR or high end printer or optometry instruments or ICU kit ...these were techs only few US/EU/japan cos could do....india imports pretty much 100% of such kit....china is making a big push into the higher end of manufactured product with their own local well funded + guangxi champions. as US/EU cos downsize, the laid off people are sometimes approached by such sea turtles who say you stay comfortably in america, no need to even relocate, you work on the key technology aspects/do the research/attend confs/build protos and we will send our engineers from home to learn, to productize, to do QA, build up marketing...and we guarantee you job and good pay for N years per a contract .win-win...i know someone in medical sector who took it up with his whole group. once equivalent products are made, they can compete on lesser price as their cost of capital is lower via guangxi.

try to find the number of chinese high tech and manufacturing co who have setup engineering offices in america in the last 10 years.

meantime cheen UG students continue to flood into america
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/chine ... on-n419436
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Singha »

US navy has released footage and audio of the P8A poseidon that flew over the disputed island in the south china sea and got into a radio argument with the chinese navy ATC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaKbZW0pqkM
UlanBatori
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by UlanBatori »

P8A poseidon

Same as the EP-3 that was returned in pieces in a box after bissing contest with Wrong Way Wong Wei?
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by ramana »

So what is the name(s) of Chinese secret service(s)?
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Suraj »

Vayutuvan
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Vayutuvan »

Wikipedia page on current Minister of State Security Geng Huichang
In August 2007 he was promoted to Minister of State Security, succeeding Xu Yongyue.[2] Geng Huichang was the member of the 17th CPC Central Committee from 2007. Geng is a political ally of former President Hu Jintao, who promoted him to Minister so he could consolidate his own power.[11][12] Geng is an international relations specialist and an expert on the United States, Japan and industrial espionage.[13] Geng is the first Minister of State Security with a background in international politics rather than internal security.[14]
Interesting that he is an expert in those three areas highlighted above.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 11 Sep 2015 21:48, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by ramana »

Because earlier the focus was on internal security and its linkages to foreign intelligence.
With him PRC shows its serious about external intelligence run by an international relations expert and not a policeman type. Those three areas are focus areas for PRC.

MSS looks like old IB
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by member_22872 »

Apologies if posted earlier:
South China Sea - Clash of the Titans
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Vayutuvan »

Ramana: I am thinking more about the industrial espionage part and the two potential targets. May be Europe and Russia a,ready give them what they want under the cover of "customer is always right". Both have weak hand vis-a-vis China.
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by kit »

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/08/chin ... -on-guard/


“Is the purpose of a (Chinese) blue water navy simply to secure the sea lanes? I think it is also to defend China,” Cheng says. Why is China, traditionally a land-focused power, looking to patrol the world’s oceans, traditionally something that Western trading nations like Britain and U.S. have done to secure their economic and political interests? “China’s economic gravity has moved to the coast. so you don’t have any sort of buffer between the Chinese and the rest of the world.”


its not just the Indian ocean
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by kit »

Rupesh
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by Rupesh »

II WW documentary on Japanese Invasion of China.

kit
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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Post by kit »

vayu tuvan wrote:Wikipedia page on current Minister of State Security Geng Huichang
In August 2007 he was promoted to Minister of State Security, succeeding Xu Yongyue.[2] Geng Huichang was the member of the 17th CPC Central Committee from 2007. Geng is a political ally of former President Hu Jintao, who promoted him to Minister so he could consolidate his own power.[11][12] Geng is an international relations specialist and an expert on the United States, Japan and industrial espionage.[13] Geng is the first Minister of State Security with a background in international politics rather than internal security.[14]
Interesting that he is an expert in those three areas highlighted above.
looks like the right person for the job ! .. :mrgreen:
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