Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

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Haresh
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Haresh »

rgosain wrote:it would be reasonable for the GOI to insist on a register of merceneries transiting the EEZ of India. This will have the effect of weeding-out a lot of the cowboy operations
rgosain,

There is always a "reasonable" middle ground. However I think with alot of these operators they think they are back in the days of empire and can just sail around in gunboats and do as they wish.
The media in the UK/west don't help, they are whipping up this sort of ill feeling to fuel resentment at the rise of their former colonies.

The cowboys do need to be weeded out.
Strangely enough there is not much sympathy for them on military forums.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by member_22733 »

I hope they serve the full and complete prison terms that was given to them, with no exceptions made regardless of how they try to bribe. The Brishits need to be slowly put in their rightful (and shit-filled) places.

These morons wont think twice before shooting up a fishing boat in the name of "anti-piracy" nonsense.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by rgosain »

LokeshC wrote:I hope they serve the full and complete prison terms that was given to them, with no exceptions made regardless of how they try to bribe. The Brishits need to be slowly put in their rightful (and shit-filled) places.

These morons wont think twice before shooting up a fishing boat in the name of "anti-piracy" nonsense.
Lokesh and Haresh, totally agree the reasons that the western press is screaming how India's action damages the anti-piracy efforts is to put India on the defensive and to show leniency, but they need to be reminded that the Italian marines killed two fishermen.
In the matter of the Seaman Ohio, a major tragedy was averted when one considers that the Seaman Ohio had docked a few weeks earlier in the same location minus the weapons and ammunition according to the manifest. In the period between docking and the interdiction, where did the weapons come from and who supplied it and for what purpose. There are shades of the Bleach saga in this one also.
India has shown leniency by not treating this as a terrorist incident given the pattern and sequence of events are similar to those Headley and Mumbai. The UK government has to clarify who these people are and why were they working for a company that is not registered in the UK.
In the book, The Siege by Cathy-Scott and Adrian Levy, it is mentioned, that UK intelligence facilitated David Headley's trip to the UK to visit Sajid Mir Jaffar in a safe house in Derby on several occasions before Nov 2008 and even after that he continued to visit. It was only after he became more ambitious in 2009-2010 that he was extracted out to the US. At no time would it seem that the GOI was informed of this by the UK, not surprising given that David Milliband was the Foreign Secretary. Given this, one should not expect a boat-load of pirate hunters to be sensitive of India's security
Last edited by ramana on 14 Apr 2016 01:46, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited see posts below. ramana
Haresh
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Haresh »

rgosain wrote:In the book, The Siege by Cathy-Scott and Adrian Levy, it is mentioned, that UK intelligence facilitated David Headley's trip to the UK to visit Mir Jaffar in a safe house in Derby on several occasions before Nov 2008 and even after that he continued to visit. It was only after he became more ambitious in 2009-2010 that he was extracted out to the US. At no time would it seem that the GOI was informed of this by the UK
Who is Mir Jaffar?
Any links to info on him please?
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by rgosain »

Haresh wrote:
rgosain wrote:In the book, The Siege by Cathy-Scott and Adrian Levy, it is mentioned, that UK intelligence facilitated David Headley's trip to the UK to visit Mir Jaffar in a safe house in Derby on several occasions before Nov 2008 and even after that he continued to visit. It was only after he became more ambitious in 2009-2010 that he was extracted out to the US. At no time would it seem that the GOI was informed of this by the UK
Who is Mir Jaffar?
Any links to info on him please?
Haresh my apologies, it is Sajid Mir who ran the safe house(The Siege, Penguin p291). I have tried to make the correction in the above passage.
When Milliband came in Dec 2008 to lecture India, he was probably doing so as someone who already was aware of the logistics provided in the UK.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Haresh »

Thanks rgosain,

I have found this which maybe of interest.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SD0 ... uk&f=false
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by member_19686 »

5 Things you didn’t know about Winston Churchill and the Islamic World

1. Churchill regularly played polo with Indian Muslims and Sheiks while he was a soldier.

When Churchill was stationed in India as a subaltern in 1896, he, like most British cavalry officers, was an avid polo player. In a letter to his mother on 12 November 1896, Churchill was happy to announce that the 4th Queen’s Own Hussars (for whom he played) won a polo tournament for the Golconda Cup in Hyderabad and that this victory was a record because ‘no English Regiment ever… won a first class tournament within a month of their arrival in India.’ Churchill told his mother he would send pictures of the event and that she would be able to see him ‘fiercely struggling with turbaned warrior.’ The ‘turbaned warriors’ Churchill, later recalled, were the ‘famous Golconda Brigade, the bodyguards of the Nizam himself.’ (The photographic evidence of this in the Churchill Archives Centre in Cambridge.) Churchill greatly enjoyed polo matches with the native Indian Army officers and even returned to play in the Inter-Regimental Tournament in February 1899, when he stayed with Sir Pertab Singh (the Maharaja of Idar, a British Indian Army officer, and a polo enthusiast) for a week prior to the tournament.

2. He tried to fight for the Ottoman Empire in the Greco -Turkish war of 1897

By 28 April 1897, Churchill made up his mind to fight on the side of the Ottomans and asked his mother to send money to the Ottoman bank. However, he feared the Balkan War would be over too soon for him to get involved. Churchill met Ian Hamilton (later Sir General Ian Hamilton) on the transfer boat, and while Hamilton had promised his service to Greece, Churchill had promised his to Turkey. While Churchill’s peculiar allegiance to Turkey largely owes to his lust for glory, an additional explanation might be that he inherited a ‘Turkophile’ attitude from his father. Some historians have dismissed such connections, arguing that ‘subalterns are often Turkophile’ but regardless, the two men shared little love for one another on the boat ride due to their conflicting alliances. Interestingly, Churchill himself recalled the incident years later, saying that Hamilton was a ‘romantic’ and was thus ‘for the Greeks,’ while Churchill ‘having been brought up a Tory… was for the Turks.’ However, their formal confrontation was not to be, for by the time they reached their port of call at Port Said in Egypt, the war was over. Churchill lamented his lost adventure in a letter to his mother in late May 1897: ‘I have reluctantly had to give up all hopes of Turkey as the war has fizzled out like a damp firework.’

3. He used to dress up as an Arab Bedouin at Wilfrid S Blunt’s estate in Sussex

It is remarkable that such an eccentric character like Wilfrid Scawen Blunt and Winston Churchill were friends in the first place. Churchill was a rising star in the Edwardian political scene and Blunt had become “the avatar for anti-imperial causes” and an active force for the “regeneration of Islam” by means of “agitation and negotiation as well as by poetry and horse breeding.” Perhaps even more bizarre was that they would dress as Arabs and would wander around Blunt’s estate in Sussex pitching tents and pretending to be Bedouins. This first occurred in 5 July 1904 and continued as a tradition until Blunt’s death in 1922. For instance, Blunt recorded in his diary for 19 Oct 1912, ‘It was a fine night and we dined in the bungalow , dressed in gorgeous Oriental garments , Clementine [Churchill] is a suit of embroidered silk, purchased last year in Smyrna, Winston [Churchill] in one of my Bagdad robes…Winston was very brilliant in all this .’

4. Churchill’s sister-in-law was afraid he might convert to Islam

Churchill’s curious fascination with Islamic culture even became obvious to others around him. He received a letter from his long-time friend and soon-to-be sister-in-law, Lady Gwendoline Bertie on 27 August 1907 who was perhaps alarmed at Churchill’s new relationship with Wilfrid S Blunt. In her letter, she explained she was afraid that Churchill was so fascinated by ‘Oriental cultiure’ that he might actually convert to Islam:

‘Please don’t become converted to Islam; I have noticed in your disposition a tendency to orientalism, pasha-like tendencies, I really have; you are not cross my writing this, so if you come in contact with Islam, your conversion might be effected with greater ease than you might have supposed, call of the blood, don’t you know what I mean, do… fight against it.’

5. He defended Muslim civil rights in British India during the 1930s

Sure everyone knows that Winston Churchill tried to keep India in the British Empire in the 1930s and that he developed a real grudge against Mahatma Gandhi calling him ‘a half-naked fakir’ and a ‘seditious Middle Temple lawyer.’ However, what most people don’t know was that one of the dimensions of Churchill’s argument for keeping India within the Empire was his defence of Muslim civil rights.

Churchill’s relationship with India’s Muslims is far more complex than the traditional narrative indicates. Far from lumping all of India’s groups together as non-differential imperial subjects, Churchill distinguished between the different ethnic and religious communities of India. Like many of his contemporaries, Churchill typically favoured the Muslims due to their status as a “martial race”. This was a recurring theme throughout Churchill’s speeches during the 1930s when he referred to Muslims as “men of martial nature”, members of a “fighting race”. Moreover, Churchill held on to this idea of courageous and loyal Muslim soldiers through World War I and after. In his note on “the importance of fair dealings with Moslems of India”, he recalled that: “During the Great War the Moslems of India confounded the hopes of their disloyalty entertained by the Germans and their Turkish ally and readily went to the colours; the Punjab alone furnished 180,000 Moslem recruits.”

Though Churchill was heavily influced by books like Mother India by Catherine Mayo, the most important influences which helped shape Churchill’s defence of British rule in India were his various friendships with prominent Muslims such as the Aga Khan, Baron Headley (president of the British Muslim Society), Waris Ameer Ali (a London judge), Feroz Khan Noon (a future Prime Minister of Pakistan) and even M.A. Jinnah — the so-called father of Pakistan.”

While the Aga Khan and Baron Headley connected Churchill to important pro-Islamic groups such as the British Muslim Society, the greatest influence on Churchill’s thinking regarding the Muslim population of India was probably Waris Ali. Waris Ali and Churchill became good friends whose correspondence lasted into the post-war years, and they worked closely together on the Indian Empire Society, which later became a part of the Indian Defence League. Waris Ali used his connections in India to keep Churchill informed of Muslim opinion on the ground in India, and continually sent Churchill information which Churchill would then use in the House of Commons as evidence of the necessity of British rule. For Instance, on 12 April 1931, Waris Ali wrote to Churchill regarding the Cawnpore Massacre saying that the Cawnpore riots were a “well thought-out […] programme for […] the terrorisation of the Muslim minority into submission and surrender of their demand for effective safeguards in the future constitution of India”. Within a month Churchill addressed an audience in Kent thus: “Look at what happened at Cawnpore […] A hideous primordial massacre has been perpetrated by the Hindus on the Moslems because the Moslems refused to join in the glorification of the murder of a British policeman.”

Furthermore, the aspects of Churchill’s position which might be characterised as concern for the Muslim minority were informed by Ali and were evident in his portrayal of the Indian Congress Party, of which he later said that it “does not represent India. It does not represent the majority of people in India. It does not even represent the Hindu masses. Outside that Party and fundamentally opposed to it are 90 million Moslems in British India who have their rights to self-expression.” Churchill himself implied that Waris Ali had influenced his position, saying to Ali that he had “availed himself fully of [his letters and articles]” and that he planned “to recur to him” if he needed more help in Parliament.

Clearly, Churchill’s connection to prominent Indian Muslims had a major impact on his views of Indian independence. While Churchill’s opposition to Indian independence was not completely motivate by Muslim civil rights (he was still a Victorian imperialist after all), as an issue it certainly help characterize, and may have been an attempt to legitimatize his views on them British Empire in India.

For more interesting facts on Winston Churchill and the Islamic World out my book, Winston Churchill and the Islamic World: Orientalism, Empire and Diplomacy in the Middle East (I.B. Tauris, 2014).

http://warrendockter.com/5-things-you-d ... mic-world/
Churchill's jihadi friend Waris Ameer Ali referred to above was a Shia, son of Syed Ameer Ali:

Image

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... ode=raaf20
Prem
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Prem »

Tommy Robinson ‏@TRobinsonNewEra Jan 25
It will be an honour to address the Hindu presidents conference & to finally meet @Swamy39 http://nchtuk.org/index.php/56-future-e ... conference

( Lines getting drawn in UK.Known Commie /Pinko Paki sepoy S. Hundal have been seen s.. there)
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by rgosain »

Haresh wrote:Thanks rgosain,

I have found this which maybe of interest.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SD0 ... uk&f=false
Yes that is it. Thanks for locating it and it indicates Headley's visit to the UK were known to the authorities, and shows the kind of plausible deniability that the uk is supreme at.
In the present case involving these pirate hunters, the ammunition recovered is of military grade and therefore illegal under the guidelines set out by the imo, and the quantity is dispropotionate to the task of private security on board commercial vessels. The fact that the vessel is owned by a dubai based Arab_US citizen creates the fog of plausible deniability.
Do not be surprised if an indian crewed vessel is hijacked by 'pirates' acting at the behest of these private security firms, or an indian vessel is arrested in a EU or uk port to ensure the freedom of these mercenaries.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Philip »

Should we offer Assange asylum? He deserves it for exposing so much of info about the world's major nations and their illegal snoopin' universal.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/f ... an-embassy
Assange demands UK and Sweden lift arrest threat so he can leave Ecuadorian embassy
WikiLeaks founder says in statement he expects immediate return of passport after UN panel finds he has been ‘arbitrarily detained’

Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian embassy. The WikiLeaks founder is calling for the threat of arrest to be lifted. Photograph: Kerim Okten/EPA

Esther Addley, David Crouch in Gothenburg, Owen Bowcott Legal affairs correspondent and Jessica Elgot
Friday 5 February 2016

Julian Assange will demand on Friday that Sweden and the UK lift any threat of arrest to allow him to walk free from Ecuador’s embassy in London, after a United Nations panel found that his three-and-a-half year confinement at the embassy in London amounted to “arbitrary detention”.

Sweden’s foreign ministry confirmed on Thursday that the UN panel, which will publish its findings on Friday, had decided in favour of the WikiLeaks founder and found that he was “arbitrarily detained”.

Assange has not set foot outside the cramped west London embassy building since June 2012, when he sought asylum from Ecuador in an attempt to avoid extradition to Sweden. The Australian is wanted for questioning over an allegation of rape dating to 2010, which he denies.

The findings of the UN working group on arbitrary detention (UNWGAD) are not legally binding, but can be used to apply pressure on states in human rights cases. The British and Swedish governments were informed of the working group’s conclusion on 22 January. Both indicated on Thursday that they do not accept its findings.

Anna Ekberg, spokesperson for the Swedish foreign ministry, said: “The UN working group on arbitrary detention has concluded that Mr Assange is arbitrarily detained. The working group’s view differs from that of the Swedish authorities. We will forward a reply to the working group [on Friday]. It will be more clear tomorrow why we reject the working group’s conclusions.”

The British foreign office said it would not “pre-empt” the panel’s report but said in a statement: “We have been consistently clear that Mr Assange has never been arbitrarily detained by the UK but is, in fact, voluntarily avoiding lawful arrest by choosing to remain in the Ecuadorian embassy.

“An allegation of rape is still outstanding and a European arrest warrant in place, so the UK continues to have a legal obligation to extradite Mr Assange to Sweden.”

A spokesperson for the Swedish Prosecution Authority said that the country’s Supreme Court found in May 2015 that Assange “should still be detained in his absence”, and that the UNWGAB finding “has no formal impact on the ongoing investigation, according to Swedish law”.

What happens to Julian Assange when detention finding is announced

Assange issued a statement via Twitter early on Thursday saying that if the five-person panel found against him, he would voluntarily walk out of the embassy and offer himself for immediate arrest, “as there is no meaningful prospect of further appeal”.

“However, should I prevail and the state parties be found to have acted unlawfully, I expect the immediate return of my passport and the termination of further attempts to arrest me.”

He is expected to appear by videolink at a press conference on Friday to call for the threat of arrest and extradition to be lifted.

Assange’s Swedish lawyer, Per Samuelson, said that if the working group found in his favour, “there is only one solution for Marianne Ny [the Swedish prosecutor seeking Assange’s extradition], and that is to immediately release him and drop the case”. Samuelson added: “If he is regarded as detained, that means he has served his time, so I see no other option for Sweden but to close the case.”

Assange’s lawyers also want assurances from the UK that, even if the Swedish prosecution were to be dropped, he would not be arrested and subject to a second extradition to the US. Assange and WikiLeaks have been the subject of a secret grand jury investigation in Virginia that has been looking into whether to prosecute them over the whistleblowing website’s US cable disclosures.

Melinda Taylor, a legal spokeswoman for Assange, said they had “every reason to believe” that the US would seek Assange’s extradition. “If one of the orders is that he should be released and his liberty should be assured, we would obviously look to the UK to make sure that it is effective and not illusory – that it’s not just liberty for five seconds, but liberty that is meaningful.”

In the past, the UNWGAD has highlighted the plight of significant international figures, including the formerly imprisoned Myanmar politician Aung San Suu Kyi. The UN panel declined to take a view on the detention of Saddam Hussein in Iraq by the US forces in 2006 but eventually said that his former minister, Tariq Aziz, was being arbitrarily detained.

In 2008, an UNWGAD report declared that Mustafa Abdi, a Somalian convicted rapist who was held in immigration custody in the UK for several years after the end of his sentence had been subject to arbitrary detention. The European court of human rights subsequently agreed and awarded Abdi compensation.

Mark Ellis, executive director of the London-based International Bar Association, said a finding by the UN panel in Assange’s favour “would seem to contradict a fairly extensive legal process both in the UK and in Sweden”.

Ellis added: “It’s important to maintain adherence to rule of law principles and ensure that individuals have to abide by legal rulings. It’s surprising to think that Assange could be exempted from those principles. The ruling by the UN panel is not binding on British law.

“It would, however, provide Assange with support for his claim that he should not be extradited. I’m sure the UK is trying to figure a way out. It would be difficult for me to think that there should be an exception [from the European arrest warrant] for this case.”
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by DevD »

So I was driving along in a good mood, listening to BBC radio 4. An item on the caste based reservations and how it has lead to cutting off the water supplies of 10 million Indians came up.
The anchor called upon two panelists. One was a Dr Chandrika Kaul from Oxford and the other a Professor Gupta from Delhi.
Kaul's accent provoked a severe bout of nausea. I nearly hit the hard shoulder. It was a fake Oxbridge accent that Tharoor routinely employs. This is the exact fakeness that the Khilnanis and Kapoors wear like a badge of honour. Went on about how caste and varnas are shameful in today's aspirational India.
Dr Gupta was audibly irritated and talked sense, but was told that time was up and he had to wind up in 20 secs.
BBC is clearly in tandem with their soul siblings in the Indian media. There is a correspondent who has taken a ride on a train from Mumbai to Ahmedabad. Was full of praises for the train, but the second part is about how India is turning intolerant towards it's minorities.
No hard feelings, they are who they are. Just reporting.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Vipul »

Double dealing and perfidious Britishers hid important information from India regarding 26/11 Mumbai attack as it wanted to protect Pakistan.
Late one night in 2008, a warning message flashed on a computer screen at the Intelligence Bureau’s (IB’s) counter-terrorism unit’s Delhi office: One of hundreds of cellphone numbers on a counter-terrorism watchlist had just come alive. There was just one single officer on duty, charged with scanning through dozens of simultaneous calls, in the hope of catching a useful conversation. Idly, he switched to the new call — and began listening in to the first minutes of the tragedy we now call 26/11.

It was pure, blind luck: The SIM cards used by the Lashkar-e-Taiba had been planted on the group by a Jammu and Kashmir Police intelligence asset. Had the 26/11 attackers been given different SIM cards, the conversations that saved dozens of lives and exposed the perpetrators may never have been detected.

Thousands of kilometres away in Cheltenham, the United Kingdom’s Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) had enjoyed a ringside view of the plot for months — culled directly from the Lashkar’s own computers. Though they warned India of imminent attack, the GCHQ provided few details, fearful of embarrassing their ally, Pakistan (the bloody basta**s). India found out the truth only because the dice rolled its way.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by panduranghari »

JTull wrote:What utter rubbish!

Trading Equities is not the only thing banks do and is perhaps one of the smallest parts of their business. Now, you can co-locate servers for high frequency trading. But now a days, the dark pools trade a lot and you don't have to be co-located for that. Otherwise some of the most aggressive banks (e.g. Goldman) won't be in the City (and elsewhere) instead of Canary Wharf, not to mention all the hedge funds in Mayfair or some as far as Wimbledon.

Banks (and, law firms, international real estate majors, pension funds, pharma companies, auto companies, electronics, etc) are all moving to CW because per sqft rents are as much as a fifth of the City and infrastructure is new (it is much cheaper to build to your spec in CW than to re-build in the City).

And, Navinder Singh Sarao is being sued (though I don't agree with it, and for different reasons altogether) because he used spoofing, which is illegal now in US even though it was perfectly legal not long ago (and still is in most of the world). He basically puts a very large order in the opposite direction to the one he intends to trade. When the market reacts to that order he quickly cancels it and makes his small trade. Now his mistake was that he exposed his intention by working with his broker on the code to modify to allow such trading. And BTW, US is chasing him but he's based in London and that too in West London, very far from Canary Wharf.

And I know because I work on large rentals for banks and have long history of working with high-frequency guys. Infact a friend is making money while based in Dubai doing high-freq stuff in German markets because co-location of servers allows it. Mr Singh was never big enough to afford that kind of activity. This requires several million $ investment per annum per market just to keep up.

So yes, your theory is utter rubbish.
Congratulations To Prominent Anti-HFT Crusader Eric Hunsader For Winning $750,000 Whistleblower Award

Nanex ~ 1-Mar-2016 ~ Vindicated!
Nearly 6 years ago, while analyzing the May 6, 2010 flash crash in detail, we discovered one of the prime causes for the crash, and a serious violation of a regulation that governs how stocks are traded in the United States (Reg. NMS). Specifically, we found that stock quotes from the NYSE were delayed by more than 30 seconds to the public quotation feed (chart 1), relative to Open Book, which is NYSE's expensive direct feed product used mostly by High Frequency Traders (HFT).

A crucial sub-ruling in the regulations prohibits exchanges from giving stock quotes to special groups faster than to the public. This sub-rule is of such importance, that without it, the rest of the rules (Reg. NMS) essentially become meaningless.

After we pointed out the severe delay in the NYSE public quote, the exchange immediately denied there was a problem: in spite of probing phone calls from major news media such as The Wall Street Journal (Tom Lauricella and Scott Patterson), The New York Times (Graham Bowley), Reuters (Herb Lash) , Bloomberg (Kambiz Foroohar), and Risk Magazine (Duncan Wood).
Of course my theory is rubbish. :roll: :lol:
JTull wrote:You're welcome to continue about the reptilian Limbic system as I know nothing about it, but try stay out of areas where you may be caught out by people with direct knowledge of the subject.
Enjoi the interventions as long as they last.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Haresh »

Not to sure what to make of this. The comments no doubt will be interesting.

The British were imperialist brutes? No, Britain made India great (says an Indian!)

Indian author Lalvani has been living in England for more than 50 years
He argues against the notion that Britain looted India
Reviewer defies anyone not concede the author might just have a point


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/books/a ... z43RGmUMP9
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by sanjaykumar »

Dog whistling in Britain. Especially for Paki lurkers. Are there any nowadays?-used to be they would come out once in a while, waving their willies. Nothing a little Prozac won't fix fellas.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... sadiq-khan

The prime minister has been criticised for sending out letters targeted at London’s Gujarati Hindu and Punjabi Sikh voters, calling on them to back the Conservative mayoral candidate, Zac Goldsmith.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Arjun »

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/uk-guardi ... /9770.html

Amazing article this...Nirpal Dhaliwal doesn't mince words. Truly the Left in the US, UK and India are so stupendously stupid they are a threat to the progress of humanity.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

[quote="Haresh"]Not to sure what to make of this. The comments no doubt will be interesting.

The British were imperialist brutes? No, Britain made India great (says an Indian!) "

What would this guy say about all the famines that the British caused, leaving 20 million Indians dead, at the barest minimum. Much higher estimates have been given, including up to 100 million. He may try to mitigate it by stating that 'famines took place in India before the British came'. But more people died of famine under British rule, than in the previous one thousand years. Also, what about the use of Indians as cannon fodder in wars that had almost nothing to do with Indians? Hey, after all, the Indians are at fault since they joined that army, right?

And what about the British abandonment of Indians during WW2 in Burma and Malaysia, and probably elsewhere. At least 80,000 perished while the British safely evacuated themselves. Too bad those Indians never got to see how 'great' India became because of the British.

And there's more, including blocking India from becoming an industrial power, and profound racism toward Indians with 'no dogs and Indians allowed' etc.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Haresh »

Varoon,

the thing that caught my attention the most was the reference to introducing Universities and schools.

Nalanda and others????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... bcontinent
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by JE Menon »

Arjun wrote:http://www.dailyo.in/politics/uk-guardi ... /9770.html

Amazing article this...Nirpal Dhaliwal doesn't mince words. Truly the Left in the US, UK and India are so stupendously stupid they are a threat to the progress of humanity.
Jeez, the guy has cut loose from the hip and with all three barrels!!! Fantastic stuff.

BTW, on a separate note, Zac Goldsmith will become Prime Minister of England one day.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by vishvak »

UK Pakis have become voting block for leftists in UK! Says a lot about long term effects of short sighted ad-hoc policies of the erstwhile empire. Some info from wiki about Sadiq Khan - the left candidate born to British Paki parents. link
[quote]In 2013 Khan claimed to have received death threats for voting in favour of the Same-Sex Marriage Bill.[51][52] Tabloid sources reported that the imam of a Bradford mosque issued a fatwa in which he declared him to no longer be a Muslim; and police subsequently advised him to review his security.[51][52][/url]
Wonder where power to vote in bloc lies when a fatwa is all that is needed to declare a candidate less/more religious and issue a death threat or two here and there.
Melwyn

Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Melwyn »

I recently met my long lost school time friends who had emigrated to UK more than a decade ago. Both the friends are females one Sikh and one Hindu.

What shocked me most was their constant use of islamic words like Inshaalla and Allah for every thing they do.
"Allah will find you a job". "Inshaalla you will succeed..." etc etc etc.

It seems like Islamics have completely infiltrated the British society and the middle class workforce. There is so much Islamic crowd and constant pounding of Islamic ideology that people subconsciously pick up these cues and make it part of their own language and culture. It won't be surprising if their children marry into Muslim families, indoctrinated as they are in Islamic culture.

It appears to me that the Sauds have bought UK with their petro dollars. UK is as dead in the water as it gets.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by A_Gupta »

Haresh wrote:Not to sure what to make of this. The comments no doubt will be interesting.

The British were imperialist brutes? No, Britain made India great (says an Indian!)

Indian author Lalvani has been living in England for more than 50 years
He argues against the notion that Britain looted India
Reviewer defies anyone not concede the author might just have a point


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/books/a ... z43RGmUMP9
Well, here's what an American wrote in 1906:
http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... h-raj.html
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Arjun »

amitkv wrote:I recently met my long lost school time friends who had emigrated to UK more than a decade ago. Both the friends are females one Sikh and one Hindu.

What shocked me most was their constant use of islamic words like Inshaalla and Allah for every thing they do.
"Allah will find you a job". "Inshaalla you will succeed..." etc etc etc.

It seems like Islamics have completely infiltrated the British society and the middle class workforce. There is so much Islamic crowd and constant pounding of Islamic ideology that people subconsciously pick up these cues and make it part of their own language and culture. It won't be surprising if their children marry into Muslim families, indoctrinated as they are in Islamic culture.

It appears to me that the Sauds have bought UK with their petro dollars. UK is as dead in the water as it gets.
Why go that far West? Even the IPL opening ceremony had some buffoon who goes under the name of Gaurav Kapoor dropping phrases like Mashallah on prime time Indian TV...
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Lisa »

amitkv wrote:I recently met my long lost school time friends who had emigrated to UK more than a decade ago. Both the friends are females one Sikh and one Hindu.

What shocked me most was their constant use of islamic words like Inshaalla and Allah for every thing they do.
"Allah will find you a job". "Inshaalla you will succeed..." etc etc etc.

It seems like Islamics have completely infiltrated the British society and the middle class workforce. There is so much Islamic crowd and constant pounding of Islamic ideology that people subconsciously pick up these cues and make it part of their own language and culture. It won't be surprising if their children marry into Muslim families, indoctrinated as they are in Islamic culture.

It appears to me that the Sauds have bought UK with their petro dollars. UK is as dead in the water as it gets.
Your friends are hanging out with the wrong crowd! In all my years I have NEVER met a Sikh you uses such vocabulary.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by vinod »

Lisa
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Lisa »

Cross posting

I am not sure if this is the correct tread. Please move if necessary. All about peacefulls.

Trevor Phillips's documentary on Muslims was shocking - but not surprising
Channel 4's What British Muslims Really Think will come as no surprise to the British public, says James Delingpole

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/why- ... ntegrated/

British Muslims becoming a nation within a nation, Trevor Phillips warns

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04 ... s-warning/

What the Al Guardian wants to say,

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... el-4s-show

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... nt-tell-us
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by JE Menon »

^^Here's the youtube link to the Trevor Philips video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcSvBsU-FM
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Arjun »

http://www.hindustantimes.com/punjab/nr ... EgimK.html

Kartar Lalwani echoes the Congress / Manmohan Singh line on colonial rule....no doubt something magical about the waters of the Pooonjab that gives rise to such remarkable servility.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by sudarshan »

What to make of these onlee :-?. Looks like some lowly Indian "spokesman" for the govt. has been shooting off his mouth, and suddenly the western media is all a-glee and a-glow about how "India forfeits all claims to the Koh-i-noor diamond." Wet-dreaming onlee?

http://www.newsweek.com/india-claims-br ... els-449544

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-36079644

Here's a choice quote from both those articles:
Tushar Gandhi, the great-grandson of independence leader Mahatma Gandhi, said a few years ago that it should be returned as "atonement for the colonial past".

However, successive British prime ministers have refused to do so. Most recently, David Cameron said that returning it would set an "unworkable precedent".

"If you say yes to one, you suddenly find the British Museum would be empty," he told Indian media during a trip to the country in 2010.
So David Cameron basically admitted that all the artifacts in the British Museum are stolen goods.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Rahul M »

utter lie by the media and their western masters faithfully licked up that $hit. govt had yet to come out with a statement and this is it :
http://www.newsx.com/national/26011-gov ... k-kohinoor
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by sudarshan »

Yep, the headline was splashed all over yahoo news this morning, it was all I could see. Of course, the actual GOI statement won't receive the same coverage.

I'm looking forward to the "usual suspects" eagerly questioning me about this. Got a few telling remarks to make to them on the subject. Plus, every time the BBC or NYT puts their foot into the muck like this, it's another chip that flakes off their credibility.

After Modi won, a gora lady came and asked me - "so you told me once that all that stuff about Modi being a Muslim-killer was false. How did you know?" She was genuinely puzzled about why the western media had gone portraying Modi as a fascist earlier - after he won, everybody and his donkey could see for himself that he was nothing like the media portrayal. I made a point of emphasizing - "you can't trust your media, you always have to read between the lines and discern the hidden agenda, especially when your media is reporting about another country."
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Lisa »

Arjun wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/punjab/nr ... EgimK.html

Kartar Lalwani echoes the Congress / Manmohan Singh line on colonial rule....no doubt something magical about the waters of the Pooonjab that gives rise to such remarkable servility.
This is nothing. You need to go to his restaurant in London. How shall I put it. He has redefined Indian food with a blandness that also redefines the word bland. Think about it, bland Indian food. That is how anglicize one may have become!
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Falijee »

Here is a good article on the "looting of India by the British" !

Forget Kohinoor, The British Looted Greater Treasures From India
The extent of British Plunder makes the Kohinoor appear a small loss. So let the British keep the stone.
The British caused irreparable losses to India in a number of sectors.
Like a huge sponge Britain soaked up the country’s wealth and simultaneously ruined its industry, agriculture and education.
On 7 September 1695, state sponsored English pirates attacked a large Indian trading ship, the Ganj-i-Sawai, carrying 900 passengers and crew from Yemen to Surat. After murdering a large number of the men and raping the womenfolk over several days, the pirates took off with gold, silver and precious stones with an estimated value of £200,000 to £600,000 ($400 million in modern times). For perspective, the average annual salary in England in 1688 was around £32.
That was the wealth from just one ship in a single day. During the approximately thirteen thousand days of British rule in India, vessels sailed daily for Britain from ports all along India’s coasts. They were laden with incalculable quantities of wealth and other valuables such as icons, statues, scrolls and books looted from the treasuries of Indian kings, businessmen, temples, landlords, schools, colleges, charitable institutions and the common people.
...By the end of the fourth day, they had taken all the rich clothes, beds, mattresses, sheets, blankets, carpets, hinges and bolts on doors and windows, pots and pans, cereals and lentils, farm animals, chairs, charpoys (string beds), bedsteads and even water wheels and ropes with which the people drew water from the wells. “Not a single useful thing was left with the people.”
Dalhousie was following the lofty precedent set a hundred years earlier by Governor Generals Robert Clive and Warren Hastings. Clive had taken £250,000 as well as a jagir worth £27,000 when he returned home to England. That bounty apparently wasn’t enough ...
But the loot of gold and silver is hardly enough to destroy an economy. For, in the previous seven centuries, Islamic invaders from Arabia, Turkey, Central Asia, Afghanistan and Persia had raided India countless times and yet India remained wealthy.
The British caused irreparable losses to India in a number of sectors. Like a huge sponge Britain soaked up the country’s wealth and simultaneously ruined its industry, agriculture and education. And as a parting shot, they divided the country, thereby ensuring that India would never again be the dominant economic power it once was.
And the people are still living with the consequences of their "divide and rule " policy !
In 1993 Belgian economist Paul Bairoch presented a detailed study of the world economy. In Economics and World History: Myths and Paradoxes he said that in the year 1750 China’s share of global GDP was 33 percent, India’s 24.5 percent, and the combined share of Britain and the US was two percent. In order to investigate Bairoch’s claims, the OECD constituted the Development Institute Studies under professor Angus Maddison of the University of Groningen. The data Maddison compiled showed India had the largest economy on the planet for 1700 of the past 2000 years.
torian Romesh Chandra Dutt explains:
India in the eighteenth century was a great manufacturing as well as a great agricultural country, and the products of the Indian loom supplied the markets of Asia and Europe. It is, unfortunately, true that the East India Company and the British Parliament, following the selfish commercial policy of a hundred years ago, discouraged Indian manufacturers in the early years of British rule i
Then there was the ‘cost’ of governing India a.k.a. the white man’s burden. Maddison writes in The Economic and Social Impact of Colonial Rule in India
During the period of direct British rule from 1858 to 1947, official transfers of funds to the UK by the colonial government were called the Home Charges. They mainly represented debt service, pensions, India Office expenses in the UK, purchases of military items and railway equipment. Government procurement of civilian goods, armaments and shipping was carried out almost exclusively in the UK
Angus Maddison in The Economic and Social Impact of Colonial Rule in India
The starting salary of a British employee in the engineering service was about 60 times the average income of an Indian worker. D.H. Buchanan points out in The Development of Capitalist Enterprise in India that European managerial personnel were paid overly high salaries despite the fact they were usually less efficient.
In the Tata steelworks in 1921-22 the average salary of foreign supervisory staff was Rs 13,527 a year, whereas Indian workers were paid Rs 240. These foreigners cost twice as much as in the US.
D.H. Buchanan in The Development of Capitalist Enterprise in India
Another form of wealth transfer can be described, without hyperbole, as daylight robbery. Economist Gurcharan Das explains :
The British government transferred its surplus revenues back to England. Since India consistently exported more than she imported in the second half of the 19th century and early 20th century, Britain used India’s trade surplus to finance her own trade deficit with the rest of the world, to pay for her exports to India, and for capital repayments in London. This represented a massive drain of India’s wealth.
Russia-born Paul Baran of Stanford University calculates in The Political Economy of Growth that eight percent of India’s GNP was transferred to Britain each year.
On 27 October 1931, the British government in London rammed through a series of measures that depressed silver and gold prices and raised interest rates in India. “Done over the protests by Gandhi, trade bodies and merchants and threats of resignation by the Viceroy and his Executive Council, the resulting ‘money famine’ had Lord Willingdon ecstatically say ‘Indians are disgorging gold.’ Indians have a different reason to revile Neville Chamberlain, who with great satisfaction said :
The astonishing gold mine that we have discovered in India’s hordes has put us in clover.
Impoverished Indians were selling their gold and silver savings. The booty was transported due West. One of these ships was the SS Gairsoppa, which was sunk by a German U-boat in the Atlantic in 1941. In 2011 an American exploration company found the SS Gairsoppa’s wreck, which has been found to contain 200 tonnes of silver. The haul was worth nearly £150 million.

The principal and interest repayments which the British were forced to pay to the USA for their help in the First World War was also paid from the surplus extracted from India !
For instance, after the First War for Independence in 1857, the British may have killed up to 10 million Indians in reprisals. In War of Civilisations: India AD 1857, Amaresh Misra, a writer and historian, says the British pursued a decade-long campaign to wipe out millions of people who dared to rise up against them.
Conventional histories have counted only 100,000 Indian soldiers who were slaughtered, but none have tallied the number of rebels and civilians killed by British forces.
It was a holocaust, one where millions disappeared. It was a necessary holocaust in the British view because they thought the only way to win was to destroy entire populations in towns and villages. It was simple and brutal. Indians who stood in their way were killed. But its scale has been kept a secret.
Amaresh Misra to The Guardian
In 1943-44, Prime Minister Winston Churchill diverted India’s food stocks to Europe, resulting in the deaths of over three million people by British estimates alone. Indian estimates place the number at up to seven million. That’s more than Adolf Hitler’s victims in Nazi Germany’s gas chambers.

Churchill, revered in the West was the most Anti-Indian British PM of India ; he is also responsible for the appeasement of the Muslims
Trade Loss
In the pre-colonial era, several important trade routes ran through present day Pakistan . It extended from Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asia in the west to India in the east. These routes were severed by the imposition of colonial era borders, impacting national income and the livelihood of traders and manufacturers in India and its neighborhood.

Again, Partition was not only political but also economic. Zafar Mahmood, Pakistan’s commerce secretary in 2012 pointed out-

...in 1948–49, a hefty 56 percent of Pakistan’s exports was sent to India. For the next several years, a period of tense political relations, India was Pakistan’s largest trading partner. Incredibly, in 1965, the year Pakistan and India went to war, nine branches of six Indian banks were operating in Pakistan.

Undivided Punjab was the focal point of economic activity for places such as Delhi and Kashmir. Karachi and Bombay were economically interlinked. Ancient and thriving trade routes that ran via the areas of Pakistan to Central Asia are little more than abysses today. Rabindranath Tagore’s tragic Kabuliwala, the Pathan who hawked produce from Afghanistan in the streets of Calcutta, is a nostalgic reminder of those days.
Humanity: Greatest Loss
The most egregious effect of Partition is neither economic nor political. It is the poisoning of relations in what used to be close-knit and friendly communities. Punjab, the land of sufi singers and inter-communal lovers, turned into an inferno where Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims fled their ancient homeland. Lahore’s population was 47 percent Hindu and Sikh; today it’s 100 percent Muslim. The orgy of violence sparked by Mohammed Ali Jinnah’s threat to turn Hindustan into a kabristan (cemetery) if Hindus did not give him Pakistan was as unprecedented as it was unexpected.
The tragedy of Partition, wrote Bombay-based writer Saadat Hasan Manto, was not that there were now two countries instead of one but the realisation that “human beings in both countries were slaves - slaves of bigotry, slaves of religious passions, slaves of animal instincts and barbarity”.
If you add up what India, Pakistan and Bangladesh have lost because of British rule and continue to lose with every passing year and compare it with the Kohinoor, the diamond would be a “mere peanut”. As the inimitable John Oliver says
All our greatest possessions are stolen...The entire British Museum is an active crime scene. If we start giving back everything we took from the empire, that building would be completely empty.
John Oliver, TV Show host.
So let the British keep the stone. (It’s known to bring bad luck anyway) The Kohinoor should remind Indians that they became enslaved because they were divided. And they should say: “Never again.”
:mrgreen:
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by IndraD »

It is almost sure that Khan the labour candidate is going to be next mayor of London.

Sadiq Khan of opposition Labour Party is the strong favourite to win London's mayoral election on Thursday after a contest marked by religious tensions and accusations of racism.

Polls show Khan, the son of a bus driver, is as much as 20 percentage points ahead of rival Conservative Zac Goldsmith in the race to run one of the world's top financial centres. If he wins, he will succeed current Conservative mayor Boris Johnson to become the first Muslim to head a major Western capital.

Yahoo News
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by AbhiJ »

Aditya_V
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Aditya_V »

Isnt Sadiq khan connected to funding zacharias mousawi or his Lawyer? Ironical if he becomes London's Mayor.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by sanjaykumar »

https://www.project-syndicate.org/comme ... or-2016-05

Britain owes us. But, instead of returning the evidence of their rapacity to their rightful owners, the British are flaunting the Kohinoor on the Queen Mother’s crown in the Tower of London. It is a stark reminder of what colonialism truly was: shameless subjugation, coercion, and misappropriation. Perhaps that is the best argument for leaving the Kohinoor in Britain, where it emphatically does not belong.

And perhaps apposite evidence of the Christian codex of ethics.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Philip »

The prophets of doom were right.The very thought that a Muslim with links to radical Islam would become the Mayor of London would've brought the house down in any comedy show a decade ago. Unthinkable. The manner in which Islam has spread and spread and spread in the British Isles is not a laughing matter.For 4 decades now I've been a regular visitor to the UK and London in particular. The change has been remarkable. The ancient "Britishness" has been replaced by what Tony Blair called an "inclusive Britain",but one which has dramatically changed in both colour and character. One never saw headscarfs and the burqa earlier,unless perhaps one went into the Muslim heartland of B'ham or Bradford. Now it is commonplace,displayed as a badge of honour and membership of a powerful clan,flaunted like a crusading flag. Minarets are springing up everywhere,and not here but all over Europe except in a few nations which have banned them.A German poll showed that the majority of Germans are against the Islamic invasion.

Christian Britain or Christian Europe is a sick joke. All over the UK the Protestant Church has been evaporating from cities,towns and villages like water in Indian rivers and lakes. I recently separately met 3 EU youngsters who said that they were atheists! The fastest growing religion not only in Europe and the UK but all over the world,because of its pressganging character is Islam.Woebetide any of the faithful who wish to differ and lead a more moderate Islamic life.ISIS awaits them! Hence like a marauding cancer this rabid version of the religion triumphs ,using as spearhead so-called moderates first who will be swiftly be replaced by the spear and sword.

Poor London if Khan wins,but then his opponent is Jewish! So the faithful will turn out in large number while N.London jewish people including rabbis have found themselves not eligible to vote.Doesn't that sound rather familiar to us?

Latest UK local election news here:Labour gets drubbed all over the UK.UKIP win 20 seats.Conservatives and Liberals make small gains.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/london-mayoral-election/
6 MAY 2016 • 8:55AM
Tories prepared to challenge London mayoral result

Conservatives are prepared to challenge the result of the London mayoral race through the courts if the result is tight following chaos at polling stations across the capital.

Thousands of people were suspected to have been turned away at polling stations in Barnet, north London, after officials were given incomplete lists of registered voters.

The Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis and his wife were among those affected as political candidates and voters expressed fury at the “affront to democracy”.

Jewish leaders expressed concern that after a week dominated by an anti-Semitism row in Labour many Jews may have been unable to vote due to the blunders.


There have been calls for a public inquiry after 155 polling stations across the borough suffered problems between 7am and 10am on Thursday.

Barnet Council publicly apologised and urged those who missed out to return before 10pm or use emergency powers to name a proxy in their absence.

However Londoners called the situation a “farce” and “incredibly frustrating” after attempting to vote before work and insisted "an apology is really not good enough”.

Barnet has a higher proportion of Jews than any borough in England – 15 per cent – with one in three of the Jewish community in London based there.

Jonathan Arkush, the president of the Board of Deputies, told The Telegraph it was “unfortunate” an area with so many Jewish residents was hit by the election failures.


While the scale of those affected remains unclear it seems likely the Tories will be worst hit given the borough's recent voting history.

The area returned three Tory MPs at the last election and voted overwhelmingly for Boris Johnson as London Mayor in 2012, while the council is also run by the Conservatives.


“I suspect that if it’s a very narrow win across London and Barnet could have made a difference then a challenge is probable. The prize is worth fighting for”
Tory source
Tory sources said a legal challenge was likely if Zac Goldsmith, the party’s candidate for mayor, lost to Labour MP Sadiq Khan by a slim margin.

“I suspect that if it’s a very narrow win across London and Barnet could have made a difference then a challenge is probable. The prize is worth fighting for,” one source told The Telegraph.

“People don’t like necessarily having to go out and vote again if it’s just because you look like a sore loser. But if you’ve got a good reason for calling for a re-vote because of an administrative cock-up people might be more understanding.”

Another Tory source said a challenge was possible if the race for London Mayor was tight while Labour was said to have been braced for that situation.

Candidates or groups of voters can submit an election petition to the Royal Courts of Justice demanding a rerun though today's problems cannot delay the announcement of results.

Grounds for the appeal include claiming the successful candidate was not duly elected, or that the election was invalidated by corrupt or illegal practices.

Sophie Walker, the candidate for the Women’s Equality party, who lives in Barnet, said she had registered a complaint with the organisers of the mayoral elections.

"I am very disappointed … Women first got the vote 100 years ago and there are women today who have been unable to vote," she said.

It is unclear how many of Barnet’s 236,000 registered voters were affected. There were claims that some polling stations were given lists of only those voters who had register in recent months, though Barnet council declined to comment.


A spokesman for the council said “all the updated electoral registers” were in place from 10am and added: “We apologise for the problems we have experienced.”
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by IndraD »

^ Most interesting find is SNP losing vote share and seats in Scotland, where conservatives have pushed Labour into third place, regarding England, it is going conservative all the way, UKIP makes major gains taking 20 seats - and even wins a place in the Welsh Assembly for first time. UKIP is going to be major headache for conservative in future, a party full of loony toons.

In London labour candidate Sadiq Khan continues to lead and is going to be the first muslim to lead a West capital, there is shock & subdued anguish in rest of England evident on news paper comments section. They do no want to give walk over to Ummahs apparently.
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Re: Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Post by Suraj »

For those in UK, what is the current situation regarding Brexit ? Is it a likelihood ? I support UK leaving the EU. It benefits in the India long term.
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