India Media role in contempt and derision about India

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Mar 2014 09:00

Suraj wrote:Sunny Singh's post on liberals is excellent. One does not need to interact in person to encounter it. Just go to any online forum where the bulk of the population is western, and post in the manner you would here - uncompromisingly pro-Indian. The hostility will be easily apparent, even if the topic isn't India. The readymade tactic is to pigeonhole you as an uncaring high-caste elite.

There was an interesting western news article during the Khobragade incident where the comments went on about Devyani's implied crimes as a high caste elite. Some Indians pointed out that she's in fact a Dalit, and Bharara is the one who's high caste. That should have been sufficient pie on the face of the original commenters, except that they retorted that the Indian commenters are high caste elite folks who have no sympathy for the maid. Oh, the comedy.

It's important to repeatedly take on these types, and when they respond with hostility, coldly reply by holding up a verbal mirror demonstrating how they behave like emotional children when cornered. They'll get even more ferocious then, but by then you've made your point. This isn't a battle won or lost right there - it's a constant stonewalling that needs to keep happening on various blogs, forums and news comments.

I don't know who this chick is, but I have congratulated her on her conversion from being Indian fake liberal to Indian. I wonder if she will allow the comment.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 08 Mar 2014 14:09

Suraj wrote:Sunny Singh's post on liberals is excellent. One does not need to interact in person to encounter it. Just go to any online forum where the bulk of the population is western, and post in the manner you would here - uncompromisingly pro-Indian. The hostility will be easily apparent, even if the topic isn't India. The readymade tactic is to pigeonhole you as an uncaring high-caste elite.

.

True that. I have been asked to not post on a professional dental forum as I showed some photographs of the Bengal famine and earlier famines engineered by Churchill. This was when I countered the opinion of a prevailing bigwig who equated Putin to Mao, hitler, pol pot.

Truth hurts and it should.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 08 Mar 2014 14:15

MurthyB wrote:BTW, for those of you experienced with twitter, how do you get noticed here? I am finding that there appears to be lots of subtle censorship. I have noticed that in some cases when you go "expand conversation" for some person, tweets that were there previously are gone and the conversation has been limited to a few interactions. Does the originator the tweet have control over what interactions are visible? Do tweets from accounts that are relatively new and have no followers get less importance? I notice that my tweets don't show up in search results after a while too. Anyway, if it is all about having 100s of followers, is there a shortcut to it? Like is there a BRF group there who would all follow you immediately (and individuals could unfollow if you start posting nonsense anyway)?

Please see twitter control room topic on GDF.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Panduranghari1/lists/brf

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 08 Mar 2014 14:26

shiv wrote:
LokeshC wrote:
Indian liberals attempt to apply the same liberal zeal to Indian issue, they end up behaving like cults in trying to reform (one hopes) the Indian society and end up losing the plot. Cults have names/label for everything a non-member does, in the liberal cult: A Brahmin --> Nazi opressor (even though there was no mass murder in the History of India comitted by a Brahmin), Hindu Defender, India Defender --> Upper caste conservative Hindu. Once they subconsciously apply this label to anyone arguing on the other side, they shut down as programmed. They are programmed not to think and not to reason from that point on. Indian liberals are almost robotic in following this algorithm.

She is one such liberal-cult-robot who probably has little clues on why she behaves the way she behaves.
Indian liberals are predominantly fake liberals. They can be re educated after which they go into a sullen silence. My own jihad against them started nearly a decade ago. They think they are "liberal" simply because they get patted on the back by white westerners for their views and don't figure out that many white liberals come from a background of great pride in their civilization and a mindset that characterizes browns and blacks and needing emancipation by spreading their liberal thoughts.

I commented yesterday that medical colleges in India instill contempt for traditional medicine from the outset. But I now realize that this is merely a subset of Indian education that starts off by instilling contempt for all ancient Indian knowledge and tradition. If you begin to talk Vedas and Upanishads you are instantly thrown out as backward and nowadays you are categorized as a right wing Hindu extremist.

The point is Indians have been asked to disregard their past in favor of science. The west took up science as the new religion. God was no longer needed for survival in situations like extreme cold, of floods or illness. Man was handling a lot of things that god was needed for previously.Science replaced prayer. After that it became OK to be liberal and bring down everything that religion stood for in the west. Divorces became easy breaking up core families, homosexuality was placed on a pedestal like church celibacy and science managed to disconnect sex from procreation so that pure sex could be utilized for unadulterated sensual pleasure by itself without procreation

But in India "religion" does not have the same Christian rules that the west discarded. It was the British and other colonizers of India who failed to understand Indian spirituality and simply did equal equal between "religions". And that equalequal has been indoctrinated into fake liberal Indian minds. Gone is the tradition of debate which existed within the Indian phllosophical framework. For the liberal, Hinduism in India==Christainity in Europe, Christ==Krishna, Jehovah==Ishwara, trinity ==Shiva/Vishnu/Brahma, Bible==Gita==mandatory rules. We are all equaleual and therefore to become like west we have to act like western liberals. This Indian fake liberalism is the monkey-see-monkey-do liberalism of semi-literate Indians who have discarded their past and do not have a European/American past.

Awesome summary sir.
And I would add one point here.
Increasingly, Westerners are realizing the kind of damage their runway liberals have done, they have wrecked havoc on their social structures. But it is also really difficult for them to rollback.
So, rollback of irresponsible liberalism being a lost cause, they have in fact joined forces with the liberals to destabilize traditional social structures in other places, it will give them a kind of parity against (and also weaken) the nations that are still grounded in tradition.
We must see the shrill support for many related personal laws (women issues, marriage, inheritance etc.) being pushed against majority community in India in such light.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Mar 2014 21:21

I had posted this earlier in the Non Western World View. Its a primer on evolution of Modern European Intellectual History.

It shows the path to current post modern chaos.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 08 Mar 2014 21:41

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... to-meerut/
Shekar Kutta is back. This time how foolish it was to suspend the rioting Kashmiri students celebrating Paki victory, contrary he says Dhoni and company should be in jail for losing so much in the last few years.
You just cannot win against this anti national rogues.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 09 Mar 2014 01:16

People are getting angry

BTW, here is a slightly saner though still equal-equal article on the Meerut situation

IOW:
1.Pakis won match.
2. Would-be Pakis, all being educated on Indian Prime Minister's Special Scholarship for Deserving Terrorists, got high on hasish and zam-zam cola, and started trashing the place.
3. Got into drunken brawls with other students.
4. Flashed SIMI-LET cards and raised Pakistan Paindabad slogans.
5. Started their usual Ghori-Ghazni cr*p.
6. Rioted all night.
7. College ppl eventually herded them back into room.
8. Next morning, the inquiry started. The Herrows decided to keep mum. The college decided to get them out of there before the lynch mobs arrived.

Media turned it into a circus. Its a completely organized pack of hyenas. Look at these: Trail of Dorks and Timeline

For ‘cheering’ Pakistan in India match, university in Meerut suspends 67 Kashmiri students
Written by Amit Sharma , Mir Ehsan| Meerut | March 5, 2014 7:58 am

PTI/NDTV Story First Published:March 05, 2014 08:19 IST

http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/meerut-67-students-suspended-for-cheering-pakistan-in-cricket-match-491443?curl=1394313454Deep-Shi*-kha Ghosh NDTV March 05, 2014 14:01 IST

Reuters India Sanjeev Miglani 9:38PM IST March 6

New Yoik Crimes March 6.

Firstpost India Sedition charges dropped against Kashmiri students who cheered Pak by Sameer Yasir Mar 6, 2014

First Post: Sameer Yasir Mar 6, 2014

But Sameer Yasir CONTINUES to claim "Sedition Charges" on March 7
Suspended for ‘sedition’, Kashmiri students refuse Pak scholarships by Sameer Yasir Mar 7, 2014

Somewhere deep inside the sh*t admits that the "sedition" charges were dropped. In fact I think they were never filed.
Read more at:

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2014 11:00

First generation American of Indian origin describing what could be an encounter with Wendy Dongdinger

This is how I feel about all arguments about cultural appropriation.

Person of Color, Etc. says: Hey look, you are borrowing some stuff from my culture and using it in ways that make me feel like you don't respect me or my culture. It would be super cool if you could stop doing that and it would make me feel better. Thanks.

White Person: WHY YOU GOTTA GET SO OFFENDED? YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO ANYTHING! STOP POLICING ME! I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT!

Person of Color, Etc. : I mean obviously you can do whatever you want... I'm not the police, I don't know why you're using that word. I'm not gonna come to your house and hurt you or be mean to your children if you say no. I'm just asking you to stop what you're doing because it's hurting my feelings. And I do feel offended! Don't I have the right to voice my opinion and my feelings?

White Person: NO! IF YOU'RE OFFENDED, THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM! I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU OR YOUR FEELINGS! AS LONG AS I THINK WHAT I'M DOING IS RIGHT, THEN YOU SHOULDN'T BE OFFENDED! STOP FEELING OFFENDED BY THIS AND TRYING TO MAKE ME FEEL BAD BECAUSE I DON'T!

Person of Color, Etc: I know you don't have to listen to my feelings... you can go anytime. Wait, I don't have the right to be offended?

White Person: NO.

Person of Color, Etc: Okay, maybe you should just go then...

White Person: NO. YOU NEED TO STOP BEING OFFENDED FIRST.

Person of Color, Etc: *facepalm*.

raj.devan · Post by **raj.devan** » 09 Mar 2014 12:32

From the last article poster by UlanBatori:

Meanwhile, support for the Pakistani cricket team is nothing new in Kashmir. The truth is that in many Kashmiri households, if India plays Kenya, they will celebrate a Kenyan win. It is seen as another way of expressing anger against the Indian state, a reflection of an unresolved political struggle running through decades of conflict

I'm not in favour of using something dead serious like sedition charges for cheering and rioting for a cricket team. It makes us look like some totalitarian state that we are not.

But forget Cricket. If India finds itself in a war with Pakistan, Bangladesh or China, which side are these households going to support? What form will this support manifest itself? And what are the implications for the safety and security of our people if these households decide to freely collaborate with the enemy?

When our army mobilizes and moves towards the border, will these households line up along the roadside and merely wave black flags and shout anti India slogans? Or will they also block those roads to help their friends across the border? Will they collaborate with the enemy to sabotage the Army's efforts to defend their homes? Will we have to divert scarce resources to monitor them and defend ourselves from them?

Why isn't our our media discussing this as well?

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 09 Mar 2014 13:16

^^^^^Why only limit it to Pakistan, Bangladesh and China. Why not consider the option when the US/UK/Germany and Vatican jointly decide to invade India. The recent western actions are not friendly at all, even if they aren't overtly hostile. If it suits American interests they may invade us also. I think there may be a lot of divided loyalties and fifth columnists even then. We should be willing to ask similar questions of a lot of other people also.

raj.devan · Post by **raj.devan** » 09 Mar 2014 13:42

ShankarCag wrote:^^^^^Why only limit it to Pakistan, Bangladesh and China. Why not consider the option when the US/UK/Germany and Vatican jointly decide to invade India. The recent western actions are not friendly at all, even if they aren't overtly hostile. If it suits American interests they may invade us also. I think there may be a lot of divided loyalties and fifth columnists even then. We should be willing to ask similar questions of a lot of other people also.

So who else, pray, has been cheering the wrong team? Please be specific about the 'other people'.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 09 Mar 2014 13:54

Similarly who is "we"?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2014 14:23

raj.devan wrote: I'm not in favour of using something dead serious like sedition charges for cheering and rioting for a cricket team. It makes us look like some totalitarian state that we are not.

But forget Cricket. If India finds itself in a war with Pakistan, Bangladesh or China, which side are these households going to support? What form will this support manifest itself? And what are the implications for the safety and security of our people if these households decide to freely collaborate with the enemy?

When our army mobilizes and moves towards the border, will these households line up along the roadside and merely wave black flags and shout anti India slogans? Or will they also block those roads to help their friends across the border? Will they collaborate with the enemy to sabotage the Army's efforts to defend their homes? Will we have to divert scarce resources to monitor them and defend ourselves from them?

Why isn't our our media discussing this as well?

Sedition does seem overkill for cheering an opposing team in a cricket match - but even if we leave out the animosity we feel for the terrorist state of Pakistan and try and bring in an analogy - in football matches in Europe - people who support an visiting would be stupid to get caught up in a crowd of home supporters. The would have their faces bashed in. I am suggesting that the police arrested them only to save them and once the situation cooled they dropped the charges. After all some charges were needed to rescue idiots from being lynched.

So this may be a case of kindness by Meerut police being misreported.

raj.devan · Post by **raj.devan** » 09 Mar 2014 15:03

You don't have to arrest someone to protect him. If the police were acting in best interests, they would have detained them, or even arrested them for inciting rioting or for assault and battery.

The fact that someone dug out an antiquity like the Section 124A of the 1860 IPC, shows that someone was definitely going overboard in teaching the traitors a lesson.

Now if they had been arrested for rioting and then expelled, the bad publicity would have been on them and there would have been no way the media could have presented it otherwise. But the moment they were charged with something as insidious sounding as 'Sedition', it merely gave fodder for presenting the story in a way that made the perpetrators look like victims instead.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2014 15:35

raj.devan wrote:You don't have to arrest someone to protect him. If the police were acting in best interests, they would have detained them, or even arrested them for inciting rioting or for assault and battery.

No. I am deliberately trying not to blame the Indian police

I am doing no more than any Paki or white racist might do for his country.

You see, the local Meerut crowd were about to lynch the Kashmiris. The police either had to arrest the locals for objecting to people who cheered for Pakistan or they had to use some excuse to whisk the paki-pasand people away. They chose the latter route - but legally they cannot simply whisk people away without charges - so the simply charged them with something - knowing it could be dropped. A rescue is being misreported as trumped up charges.

raj.devan · Post by **raj.devan** » 09 Mar 2014 17:01

The local Meerut crowd must be extremely dangerous.

If you're saying the police arrested them on some obscure IPC section to make it look like they were taking action and thereby pacifying the local Meerut crowd, then you may be right. I hope that's not how they protect actual innocent abiding citizens who get targetted by the mob in that town for other reasons.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2014 20:35

raj.devan wrote:The local Meerut crowd must be extremely dangerous.

If you're saying the police arrested them on some obscure IPC section to make it look like they were taking action and thereby pacifying the local Meerut crowd, then you may be right. I hope that's not how they protect actual innocent abiding citizens who get targetted by the mob in that town for other reasons.

Of course not. I am absolutely, 100% certain they wouldn't do that. What gave you the idea?

If I was in college and I saw a bunch of people cheering Pakistan and then dancing all night, I would be dangerous too - but no more dangerous than a football crazy crowd in England.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Mar 2014 22:38

Westernization rests on for three pillars and a foundation or base : politics, the arts, in the humanities with the Church as the foundation or the base.

All variations are a rebelling or enhancing the foundation. For example Modernism is rebelling against the Church. Modern movements like women's rights, LGBT rights are all rebellion against the Church.

India already has the pillars but the foundation is not the Church. Hence the consternation of the DIE as they are fish out of water.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Mar 2014 02:31

AoA! I was hoping not to have to point out the obvious.

There were no "Sedition" charges actually filed, and no one was arrested, let alone bailed out. Someone SAID they might be filed, then dropped the idea. No more than a legitimate scare tactic to bring some extremely unruly, arrogant pieces of pakistan in line, and prevent a bloody riot that might have left them ALL dead.

They were on Indian government scholarships, yelling Pakistan Paindabad slogans. ******* traitors. When they applied for those scholarships I am sure they groveled and lied. Cancel their scholarships, give the money to some poor deserving kids.

It so happens that the NYCrimes article was sent to Evil 6th Coujin, by a senior journalist of another major east coast rag which had recently published something on the Doniger issue, and said Evil Coujin had caught their attention with a few pointed letters. It was sent basically saying: "See, isn't this what happens when you start pulping books"? etc.

Evil 6th Coujin sent me the following, that he sent.

Ah! So to summarize, some college students got drunk and smashed chairs after a sports event and exchanged compliments on each other's parentage, siblings' morals etc, and got themselves in trouble and were sent off to cure their hangover. Unheard-of in Free Democracies, such as, say, following an Auburn-Alabama game or the World Series. If all they did is trash one dorm, heck, they wouldn't qualify as fans at a US inter-university football match, would they? The standard is to rip out the goalposts, break beer bottles all over the roads, swing from the chandeliers in the hotel lobbies, toss flower pots down from the 8th floor of the Atrium, and put at least 5 people in hospital.

YESS!!! A story that MUST be spun into an international incident, with communal riots, wars, terrorist attacks, widow-burning, cow-worship, nuclear weapon counts, all brought in, along with sales of dirty books.

A few pointers:

a) Manzoor Ahmed the Principal or Vice Chancellor is Muslim and an Indian. Yes, they make Muslims principals and Vice Chancellors in India.
b) This story can't have gone through professional US editing. All such stories are supposed to end in the standard explanation, are they not :
"Hindu-ruled India and Secular, Democratic US Frontline Ally Pakistan have fought 4 wars over the disputed territory of Kashmir and frequently exchange fire across the Line of Control".
Here's the BS-meter reading:

1. First, note that in this new explanation:
"India has an ambivalent relationship toward free speech."
With all due respect that is far worse cr*p than the "Hindu-ruled India" explanation. Modern India is best described as a chaosocracy, where everyone can and does say whatever they please.

2. " Kashmir’s Parliament". The State of Jammu-Kashmir does not have a Parliament. It has a state Assembly. The rulers are nearly all Kashmiri Muslims. The BJP etc are small minorities there. So this writer is saying that what they describe as "Indian-held Kashmir" is actually a FREE NATION with its own PARLIAMENT? Then why agitate?

Those two statements show the writer's bias very clearly.

3. " A chair and a pane of glass were also broken during the game". I suspect that this was a small part of what happened, for any Indian school to suspend 67 students, nearly everyone in a dorm, and risk a major court case. They probably trashed the whole building.

Just guessing, but PROBABLY, they were drunk to the gills, in violation of school alcohol laws. (India is also a country where in many states, booze flows as freely as the Monsoon floods). And they might have also started flaunting their Membership Cards in the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) or another "Kashmiri" declared international terrorist organization such as the Hizb-ul-Mujaheddin or Lashkar-e-Toiba, and left the college with no options. Just guessing of course. The Presumption of Innocence must hold! But the story as presented makes absolutely no sense.

4. "The university rented several buses to take the 67 suspended students off campus after the episode, which happened on Sunday". And this sounds like something they did just to get back at kids cheering/exchanging pleasantries after a cricket match? First I wonder why it takes "several" Indian buses to carry 67 students: that's like half the load of an average bus in the place where I went to school :LOL

5.
“I don’t like Pakistan for anything else. It’s just their cricket team that I support.”

Amen to that, so do I. So at this India-Pakistan match, Shahid Afridi, the Pakistan captain, hit two sixes in the very last 6 balls of the match to put Pakistan in the Finals of the Asia Cup, and knock India out last week. Here's the site to observe that:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/conte ... 25445.html

See the picture of Afridi being mobbed. I bet half the people around him are India fans. I cheered for him too.
..
I have been too busy today observing the New York Times Freedom of Expression demonstration in the Comments Section below the article titled: "Banned in Bangalore" (the name is actually Bengalooru, but perhaps the NYT and U. Chicago prefer the colonial name). It turns out that there is an interesting filter in play, which MIGHT be of more interest to those interesting in Freedom of Expression in the USA than how an Indian school settles Little League quarrels.

But the story does make one point: That in India, stupid rants can indeed become triggers for mass riots. Which is why the law tends to take a dim view of those seeking to make a cheap buck by inflaming passions.
You might want to get the first several seasons of Matt Dillon, US Marshal from NetFlix to understand the Peace Officer's job in Uttar Pradesh. (Supreme HQ) has been assiduously using these to learn American history properly.

Best regards

Evil 6th Coujin

*****************************************

Added later:

Update: A more factual account without the riots, wars, nuclear weapons, snake-charmers, cow worship, bride-burning, secession etc. It's as I thought: brats got intoxicated and destroyed property, other students got mad at the scofflaw behavior, university officials did what they could to protect all the students.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/meer ... 47033.html

(Pay special attention to bolded parts:)
"There were five or six students who were cheering after Pakistan won when watching the match in the common hall of Madanlal Dhingra Hostel. Some local students objected to it. But these Kashmiri students turned violent. They removed their shirts and danced in the night for many hours. They also damaged furniture, window panes and a badminton court. We reached there after knowing about the incident and somehow sent them back to their room. But next day, there was visible tension on the campus," Garg said.

"We were anxious because Meerut is a sensitive city. So we called the 68 Kashmiri students who were watching the match and asked them to reveal names of those who were involved in violence. But they refused to divulge identity of the rogue students. We suspended 67 of them for three days. One of them was spared because he was unwell. We have admitted him to hospital," he said.

"Our primary aim was to remove these students from the hostel to avoid clash with some local students who were reacting sharply to previous night's behaviour of the Kashmiri students. We also asked the suspended students where they wanted to go. We arranged two buses and sent two professors with them. We also requested the police to escort them," said Garg.

I postulate that the all night dancing swirling one's shirt etc over one's head, and damaging property, must have been preceded or accompanied by some form of intoxication/impaired judgement (er... I do have a bit of experience of being on college cricket teams in India.. ). Not "proper" for the university to mention alcohol. All good boys, esp. the Kashmiris are Muslims and admitting to alcohol consumption would put them in serious danger in their home villages/towns.

As I suspected, the university was/is trying their best to protect the students. The UP government, on the other hand, is not exactly known for its reasonable behavior. Sort-of a combo of Arizona and Alabama, with a few Texas T-Partyers added for color.

Reminds me of when a gang of my dear classmates were stopped by police in downtown Chennai decades ago. Found staggering and clearly Under The Influence of something. There was Prohibition then. The Police charged them with drunkenness, and faked blood test reports to "show" the same since they were so sure.

The Institute Security guys and Dean went over to the Police station and proved to them that they were NOT drunk, and got them released. They knew, you see: it wasn't alcohol, but drugs. Then they gave them a choice: expulsion (they were seniors!). Or they had to bring a parent to stay with them, and escort them at all times when they were not in class. For the next few weeks, these mighty Seniors had to walk around campus with Mom. I think they would have GLADLY traded that experience for about 3 months in jail. :LOL

Here I think the university tried their best to prevent a war from breaking out, and tried to use the threat of "sedition" charges to scare these brats. Of course the media and politicians ran with that and turned it into a circus.There will now be Strikes, Counter-Strikes etc etc now. I think the University's Vice Chancellor etc are probably going to have to resign.

Freedom of Expression

*********************

And added later:

BTW,
1) These students were all on (Indian) Prime Minister's Scholarships at this university.
2) the "anti-national activities/sedition charges" have all been dropped, as I expected. So will all the rest, the students will end up with a stern warning from someone (which they will blow off), and everyone will go back to yelling happily at each other.
3) I note that Mullah "Professor" Hafeez Saeed of the Lashkar-e-Toiba has offered "scholarships" to all the students if they will only cross over to the Heaven of Pakistan-occupied ( aka "Azad" or "Liberated") Kashmir. But they take a dim view of binge drinking except by senior military officers over there, and their Scholarship terms tend to include AK-47 and Suicide Vest training.

Maybe I will ask him to start a blog on this stuff.

You have to ask yourselves how credible is the story centered around "Sedition Charges". These buggers are as close as one gets to Biting The Hand That Feeds Them. Typical Kashmiri Moo arrogance. It is perfectly natural for other students to feel that these pampered traitors should be sent back where they came from. Meerut is indeed a "sensitive" city meaning yahoo-filled. If there had been a clash next day, and say, a kid of "One Community" had been seriously injured, it would have brought in the mob with cycle chains, rapidly escalating to gas cylinders and acid bulbs. This is what the university people were trying their best to avoid, while protecting ALL the students.

The "several buses" was a key point: why use "several buses" to kick 67 brats out? Only because the buses were going to several routes and destinations, to take them where they wanted to go. Some were dropped off at the railway station and

about that; others may have been taken straight home.

Whatever else, exactly HOW would you have handled this situation given the time-(bomb) element and their Pakiness?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Mar 2014 02:32

And I add: NOTHING appeared in said East Coast rag on this tamasha. So maybe Evil 6th Coujin had some effect. Time well spent.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Mar 2014 05:41

Several rotten eggs and tomatoes missed their final opportunity to go out in a blaze of kamikaze glory.

"We were informed by the publishing house that the event was to be called off on Sunday and Arundhati won't be coming to town," informs Subbareddy, manager of Lamakaan, the cultural space hosting the event.
"There have been some difficulties in the distribution of the book and it is not yet available, especially in Hyderabad, Bangalore, Chennai, etc. Meanwhile, acrimonious debates have been taking place without many people getting a chance to read it. The launch is therefore postponed till such a time as the book is widely available, and a more informed conversation can take place," read the statement issued by the publishing house.
"History is a tricky subject and people tend to jump to conclusions. Since the topic of the talk was sensitive, backlash from right wing activists and other communities was feared. Keeping this in mind, the event was called off. Not many people read Wendy Doniger's book. Yet, a major brouhaha was made about it which ultimately led to the publishing house pulping the copies. The publishers didn't want it to face the same fate as they are anyway finding it difficult to distribute it in the city," explains Subbareddy.

Concise translation:

Waste of money, sales are abysmal, the Introduction makes it so much worse.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Mar 2014 07:05

UlanBatori wrote:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/meer ... 47033.html

(Pay special attention to bolded parts:)
"There were five or six students who were cheering after Pakistan won when watching the match in the common hall of Madanlal Dhingra Hostel. Some local students objected to it. But these Kashmiri students turned violent. They removed their shirts and danced in the night for many hours. They also damaged furniture, window panes and a badminton court. We reached there after knowing about the incident and somehow sent them back to their room. But next day, there was visible tension on the campus," Garg said.

"We were anxious because Meerut is a sensitive city. So we called the 68 Kashmiri students who were watching the match and asked them to reveal names of those who were involved in violence. But they refused to divulge identity of the rogue students. We suspended 67 of them for three days. One of them was spared because he was unwell. We have admitted him to hospital," he said.

"Our primary aim was to remove these students from the hostel to avoid clash with some local students who were reacting sharply to previous night's behaviour of the Kashmiri students. We also asked the suspended students where they wanted to go. We arranged two buses and sent two professors with them. We also requested the police to escort them," said Garg.

Precisely my point!

shiv wrote: You see, the local Meerut crowd were about to lynch the Kashmiris. The police either had to arrest the locals for objecting to people who cheered for Pakistan or they had to use some excuse to whisk the paki-pasand people away. They chose the latter route - but legally they cannot simply whisk people away without charges - so they simply charged them with something - knowing it could be dropped. A rescue is being misreported as trumped up charges.

shiv wrote: I am suggesting that the police arrested them only to save them and once the situation cooled they dropped the charges. After all some charges were needed to rescue idiots from being lynched.

So this may be a case of kindness by Meerut police being misreported.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 10 Mar 2014 07:24

I think the Police were asked to escort the brats to safe places, but the brats would not have gone with them, so they said they were being taken for processing on Sedition charges.
The whole theme is:
1. I don't do homework, and I flunk my tests.
2. I get drunk.
3. I get into a fight with my classmates
4. I break furniture and trash the college premises
5. I know I have broken a dozen rules and am about to get kicked out.
6. I yell "PAKISTAN PAINDABAD!"
7. I get suspended.
I wail:

I got suspended MERELY BECAUSE I expressed my support for pakistan as a free citizen with the mind-set of a rat-snake !!!!!

The whole desi and international media resonates with the claim.
Correction: most people seem to have realized that they were gypped.
Quintessential pakiness.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Mar 2014 21:25

Xposting from another thread:

SanjayC wrote:
vish_mulay wrote:Bipolar C Fair compares Modi with Klansman

https://twitter.com/CChristineFair/stat ... 1386441728
My Twitter exchange with her:

Christine Fair ‏@CChristineFair 7h
Word. India crosses the moral line of no return if Narendra Modi becomes prime minister http://qz.com/178362

Indian Realist ‏@IndianRealist 2h
@CChristineFair The Whites crossed the moral line long ago by adopting a religion that says "Our God is true, your God is false."

Christine Fair ‏@CChristineFair 2h
@IndianRealist FYI: ALL believers contend that their god is true and others' gods are false. For me, I believe only in the grace of Dog.

Indian Realist ‏@IndianRealist 11m
@CChristineFair Yet to hear anyone accuse Hindus of claiming "Our God is true, your God is false."
-------------------

Christine Fair ‏@CChristineFair 2h
@omufrench Not the point; rather, his supporters lack any commitment to basic human rights. Disgusting IMHO. We have Klansmen. You have him.

Indian Realist ‏@IndianRealist 3h
@CChristineFair @omufrench What happened to the right of Native Americans to live outside reservations? Charity begins at home.

Christine Fair ‏@CChristineFair 2h
@IndianRealist You are preaching to the converted. And I'm an atheist. And American crimes don't absolve Modi's. So you're kind of lame.

Indian Realist ‏@IndianRealist now
@CChristineFair So when are you starting a campaign for the right of Native Americans to live in Manhattan?

This is how it needs to be done.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 11 Mar 2014 23:44

Suraj, good stuff. I added:

Bacho, today's lesson is on scatterbrained moral equivalences. Exhibit A - @CChristineFair "Modiparasts are just as bad. We have the KKK."

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 12 Mar 2014 00:01

That wasn't me. It was SanjayC from another thread. Please don't refer to anything that amounts to a defensive posture. Continuously attack the other side's failings and make them defend that. There's so much usable imagery of the KKK's actions that can be easily used goad them on the lines of 'go on, find something even remotely close to this pic of a bunch of white guys in dresses standing around a hanging corpse'.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 12 Mar 2014 00:04

Aye aye

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2014 01:23

No need to go that far back. Just Google "War Crimes Iraq". Images esp.

As about each atrocity in turn. Until Dubya and his entire Cabinet in 2003 are hanged, or a least handed over to the war crimes tribunals set up by the UN, the USA has absolutely no credibility in speaking of human rights.

See Wikipedia

A
Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse
Al-Anfal Campaign
Hashim Ibrahim Awad
B 1991 uprising in Basra
D Dujail Massacre
H Halabja chemical attack
Hamdania incident
I
Iraq Historic Allegations Team
Iraq prison abuse scandals
J Joint Forward Intelligence Team
K 1991 uprising in Karbala
1991 uprising in Kirkuk
M
Mahmudiyah killings
Death of Baha Mousa
T
1991 uprising in Tuz Khormato

United States War Crimes

And as for UK,

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 65023.html

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Mar 2014 02:05

Follow up on K Talibans

Indian lyricist Javed Akhtar under fire for comments on suspended Kashmiri students

Indian film lyricist and writer Javed Akhtar came under fire on Tuesday after some comments he made on Twitter on Monday about the 67 students from Kashmir who were suspended by Sharda University in Uttar Pradesh for celebrating Pakistan’s victory over India in a cricket match on March 1, in Asia Cup.
Akhtar said that the suspension of the Kashmiri students should not have been revoked, instead they should be rusticated from the varsity and forced to return to the state
Javed Akhtar ✔ @Javedakhtarjadu
Follow Why the suspension of those 67 Kashmiri students who cheered Pakistan is revoked. They should be rusticated and sent back to Kashmir

Link is Haram

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 12 Mar 2014 02:12

Also, Sanjay, please don't get caught up in "Native Americans and Hiroshima", those are issues for another time. Stress that the US has preferred dictatorships over democracy in the third world, and that two of its favourite dictatorships in the last 40 years have been Saudi Arabia and Pakistan under the generals. China was also liked when it was playing the role of counterbalancing of Russia, never mind that the two countries had similar systems. Make at least one reference to Nixon and Kissinger's support to the Pakistani military during 1971, at least one to its overthrow of Iran's democracy in 1953, and a reference to American shenanigans during the Congo crisis, which allowed Mobuto to come into power. The idea is to point out that the US has no problem with dictators when its economic and/or geopolitical interests are involved. Surely they can tolerate a Narendra Modi, who will be elected, and who for the last 12 years has brought economic growth and progress to Gujarat.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 12 Mar 2014 04:16

Varoon Shekhar wrote:The idea is to point out that the US has no problem with dictators when its economic and/or geopolitical interests are involved. Surely they can tolerate a Narendra Modi, who will be elected, and who for the last 12 years has brought economic growth and progress to Gujarat.

Umm, this sounds like a self-goal. Narendra Modi is not a dictator, and allowing that he is to make some absurd appeal for American support is quite unnecessary.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2014 04:42

Indian film lyricist and writer Javed Akhtar

Jhujharji: Eeej thij same Javed as eej found with Teesta S/ Sabrang scam?
What is "rust-e-Katood" I wonder.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Mar 2014 04:45

No. That is Javed Anand, the hubby of Teesta Setelvad.
This one is the song writer, father of Farhan Akhtar and husband of Shabana Azmi.
Famous as the writer duo Salim-Javed of Sholay fame.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 12 Mar 2014 05:11

MurthyB wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:The idea is to point out that the US has no problem with dictators when its economic and/or geopolitical interests are involved. Surely they can tolerate a Narendra Modi, who will be elected, and who for the last 12 years has brought economic growth and progress to Gujarat.
Umm, this sounds like a self-goal. Narendra Modi is not a dictator, and allowing that he is to make some absurd appeal for American support is quite unnecessary.

Why do we even care what Americans think or tweet? India can elect whoever she chooses and it is an internal matter, it is up to RoW to deal with it. If they don't want to deal, their problem. Did Americans come and explain to us why GW deserved a second term, or BO is their best choice? They voted and other countries figured out a way to deal with the admin, same goes for India.

We elect our leaders, and that is explanation enough.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Mar 2014 09:54

ramana wrote:No. That is Javed Anand, the hubby of Teesta Setelvad.
This one is the song writer, father of Farhan Akhtar and husband of Shabana Azmi.
Famous as the writer duo Salim-Javed of Sholay fame.

Dekho , Who Came out of the Mushhole For Poll

AAP Ka Ik Paapi Baap
Federalism holds key to democracy in India
Menial Sepoy Vijay Prashad

INDIA’S elections are a statistician’s dream. Between April 7 and May 12 the Indian people will elect their 16th parliament (Lok Sabha). About 814 million of them are eligible to vote, 100 million more than for the previous parliamentary election in 2009. If about half of this population goes to the polls — the average turnout — then these 400 million voters will outnumber the total population of the US.
The incumbent for this election is the Congress Party-led United Progressive Alliance (UPA), which has been wracked by scandal and malaise. The UPA resembles an old shaggy dog that drifts in from the rain with its election manifesto dragged behind it like a wet blanket. Little about the UPA’s decade in office inspires confidence: the situation for the poor remains miserable, with a recent study showing that 680 million Indians experience deprivation; no number of malls and freeways will lift them out of poverty. Increasingly, the UPA appears as the alliance of the well-heeled elite — less Gandhiji and Nehruji, the wags say, and more 2G (the telecom scandal) and CWG (the Commonwealth Games scandal). Its standard bearer, Rahul Gandhi, is the scion of the Gandhi family but without the charisma and intelligence of his grandmother (Indira Gandhi) and great grandfather (Jawaharlal Nehru). His is a pitiful task.
India’s main opposition over this decade has been the Bharatiya Janata Party-led National Democratic Alliance (NDA), a right-leaning group with a muscular and controversial leader, Narendra Modi. On economic issues the BJP and the Congress are identical, although the former says it will provide governance without corruption. The Achilles heel of the BJP is its toxic social agenda, which has been demonstrated in Modi’s home state of Gujarat, in its anti-Christian pogrom in Dangs in the 1990s and its anti-Muslim pogrom in 2002. The National Human Rights Commission of India found that the Gujarat state apparatus was complicit in the 2002 violence. Modi cleverly ignores this while putting himself forward as the champion of development. With the Congress unable to extricate itself from the quicksand of corruption, Modi’s feint impresses the middle class and the corporate elite.

What will save India from the Modi juggernaut is that it doesn’t have a presidential system. The people will elect 543 new members of parliament. The winning bloc will have to secure half the seats, not easy for the Congress (206 seats in the last parliament) or the BJP (117 seats). Since 1967, the Indian government has been formed out of alliances that include regional parties with deep roots in the Indian states. The old days of a single party ruling the roost are gone; regional parties are now able to dictate terms for the coalition. It is what moderates the extremism of the BJP — but only out of necessity. Modi’s toxicity has turned off core allies, leaving the BJP with the confidence of a lion but the alliances of a skunk. To complicate matters, a new anti-corruption party — the Aam Aadmi Party — promises to directly challenge the Congress and the BJP in their north Indian heartlands. If they are able to do so, it will strengthen the hand of the Third Front.
The Third Front, under various names, has made an appearance in each election since 1967. It brings together regional parties and the Left Front, which is often its backbone. They are united by their antipathy to both the Congress and the BJP, and their commitment to secularism and social justice. No easy common programme can be produced, largely because the parties in the Front differ hugely in their assessment of how the country should develop. Nevertheless, one of its contributions has been to move India in a federal direction to empower the states (Uttar Pradesh, India’s most populous state, has a population of 200 million, larger than most countries in the world).In a country of India’s scale, federalism is a pathway to democracy. In a fractured parliament the Third Front could broker a government committed to social justice and secularism — as it did in 2004 when the Congress was pushed to create social welfare schemes such as the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act. When the Left broke with the Congress in 2009, the alliance that remained — the UPA — departed from any commitment to relief. Only when the Left is a vital part of the Third Front has this alliance been able to push for reforms to rebuild the hopes and lives of hundreds of millions of Indians who live below any given standard of a poverty line. Only when the Left and its allies are stronger yet will they be able to chart an alternative direction for India (This is clear threat and danger to the Country).

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 13 Mar 2014 00:13

arshyam wrote:
MurthyB wrote:
Umm, this sounds like a self-goal. Narendra Modi is not a dictator, and allowing that he is to make some absurd appeal for American support is quite unnecessary.
Why do we even care what Americans think or tweet? India can elect whoever she chooses and it is an internal matter, it is up to RoW to deal with it. If they don't want to deal, their problem. Did Americans come and explain to us why GW deserved a second term, or BO is their best choice? They voted and other countries figured out a way to deal with the admin, same goes for India.

We elect our leaders, and that is explanation enough.

Ideally that is true. Not sure if India is there yet in terms of economy big and powerful enough to not be buffeted by forces inimical to it. Having a robust popular response that pushes back against a jaundiced narrative can only help and demonstrate the broad groundswell of opinion that rejects the leftist fascist group jerk off.

Skanda · Post by **Skanda** » 13 Mar 2014 00:47

Jhujar wrote: AAP Ka Ik Paapi Baap
Federalism holds key to democracy in India
Menial Sepoy Vijay Prashad

...
a right-leaning group with a muscular and controversial leader, Narendra Modi.

Muscular? OMG, what will happen to our image of SDRE?

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 13 Mar 2014 17:59

Xposted from Indo-US thread...

UlanBatori wrote:See, this stuff about bringing up "Adarsh" or "dual passports" is precisely why India gets kicked around. Read the comments at the TOIlet http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 913140.cms

and you see the whole list of p1ssants undermining Indian national interest, to kiss up to any gora however brutal or unjust they may be.

The issue here is an extortion scam run by a crooked bunch of arrogant bozos (probably all on deputation to the Ukraine desk for the past 2 months, judging by the performance there). But EVEN WHEN an American judge did the obvious and only possible thing, which is to dismiss the charges on the grounds that the indictment was illegal, Indians want to clamor saying:

No no no no yaar! Eeeph eet eej an Indian she MUST bee guilty onlee!

I have a question for all the "adarsh scam" AAPs here (abhiskecc, sorry I have to seem to pick on you bro... NOT doing so - I read what you said, and I happen to agree with that part. But it is totally irrelevant to bring it up in context of DK's mistreatment.) I am talking about the Einsteins posting on the TOIlet comments section under their article.

How many of you can honestly say that if you were offered a flat in a high-rise in a prime part of Mumbai at a ludicrously low rate, and it was approved by the highest authorities (Maharashtra CM), you would REFUSE it, citing MOHAWG (Mawral High Graund)?

Anyone who claims that is dishonest not only with others but also deluded. Candidate for next South Manhattan US Prosecutor. As for "dual passports", have you thought about that? These are little kids. First time they travel, they are probably entered on Mom's passport, or Dad's passport. Then they may or may not get another passport. You don't really KNOW that DK's kids were holding TWO valid passports simultaneously, do you? Where did you get that from? I know... the report from the same jackasses who claimed "inside sources" that "GOI is mad at DK because she didn't board the afternoon AI flight from JFK" when the truth is that this was made essential to dismiss the indictment. How many times does one have to be proven wrong before one has to start asking:

Am I REALLY an Einstein after all?

Look at yourselves in a mirror to see the ppl who demean and undermine India. Read the comments in TOI, and you come away saying:

These people are mentally, total sh1ts, hain!!

Looks and stinks like a motivated effort to discredit Indian position either by massa's agencies or Indians slaves or both. I won't put it past them to "fix" the comments section as well to make it appear like the Indians are wildly against the diplomat.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Mar 2014 08:57

When I started this thread - I used the word "media" in the title because the media play a major role in moulding hearts and minds. "Media" have changed oven the decades but their role remains the same. In my grandfather's days "media" were books and newspapers. When I was young it was books, newspapers and radio, later TV. The internet has added to that. In every case the primary source of information and the predominant source of information for the last 150 years has centered around the "western world" and so a western worldview is considered as most reliable and credible to people - even to us in India. Outliers who do not agree with that are generally ostracized and beaten into silence.

This particular post was triggered by the credibility of Australian sourced information about the missing Malaysian flight MH 370, but that is actually a very minor and poor example of subtle biases that we all develop towards a western worldview based on who is good and who is not good from the western viewpoint.

For us Indians understanding where our own thoughts might be coming from is important because we face huge contradictions in the way we view some of our foes - particularly Pakistan because of western inspired biases we have in our mind that conflict with information that we can ourselves see. We (that includes Indian media) tend to portray things as a mixture of western biases and contradictory Indian viewpoints. It is possible that our governments cannot make up their minds because they too are conflicted by the opposing views of western inspired media biases and our own observations.

For many of us Iran and Iraq represent "bad" and "evil". This is inspired from the western view and is reinforced by the fact that both are Islamic nations who, to us, are automatically on the "Pakistan side". However reality is more complex. Ever since the Iranian revolution the west has taken a sunni side - keeping Saudi, Egypt and Pakistan on their side and have generally opposed shias. But Persia and India have a deep cultural relationship and India and Iraq have had close ties. Yet, for many of us Iran represents evil and the sight of Indian special forces doing a "double march" jog on parade like Saddam's army was viewed by many people on BRF as the shameful appearance of a loser army. The Iraqi army was a "loser army" from a western perspective.

Pakistan in fact causes the worst conflicts to come out in our minds. Time and time again we see statements and articles that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are a huge threat and that if the Al Qaeda or Taliban come calling things will get really bad. But none of these entities is as bad as the Pakistan army. The Pakistani army is better armed and better trained than any Al Qaeda or Taliban - in fact most of the latter have been trained by the Paki army, which is itself armed and funded by the US, whose media we read and accept as most accurate and true. The Pakistani army has done the worst possible things to India and Indians - and yet in India there is an irrational fear that Al Qaeda or Taliban represent something "worse" than the Pakistan army. And if you scratch the surface, you find that this is a specific American viewpoint. It has simply sunk into our minds from constant media bombardment. "The Pakistani army is moderate and secular" - is what we are told. We know that this is bullshit. But somehow we end up subscribing to that view as we fear the Al Qaeda and Taliban. The Taliban need to be defeated is a constant strain we see on BRF even while the Taliban fight both the Paki army and its sponsors the US. I am not sure that many of us in India have thought this thing through fully.

I really think we as Indians need to carefully assess where information has come from to get established in our minds. Does the information come from our own experiences and our own history, or are they experiences of someone else's history and biases that we have internalized. We seem to do the latter to a large extent - and when that confused mindset manifests in our leaders - we have a problem. On the other hand if some of our leaders are not confused but we oppose them because we (the people) are confused we still have a problem

We have had an "Indian interests" thread running for perhaps a decade now. It is an important subject if we can dissect our minds and free them from biases that we acquire from other nations interests and biases. That is the worst consequence of our having been colonized. Mental colonizaton takes a long time to go.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Mar 2014 14:03

Who the hell, oh who the frigging hell is Samuel Locklear? Anyone outside the USA know?

He is a US navy man who commands one branch pf the US navy called the Pacific command. If he burps, would it bother you? OK what if he speaks? What the hell does it matter?

But here we have IDRW our premier source for defence info, whose news items often constitute the entire content of the BR main page military news saying this: "India-Pakistan ties, promising but fragile"

What the frug? Excuse my indignation, but what sort of news is this? Some man in some navy passes judgement on India-Pakistan and a portal that presents Indian defence news thinks it needs reporting as major news.

As Indians I believe we have no self respect. I believe that our education in India teaches us to respect and accept as truth what appears in the media and literature of western English speaking nations. We do show a great deal of special respect. Anyone who bothers going back to that Malaysian missing airliner thread will see how a statement by the Australian PM that debris had possibly been found invited at least two comments saying that this, at last, was credible. Maybe I am biased, but before that, I think there was a kind of embarrassed reluctance to assert that Indian radar operators were awake and alert that night. It became fashionable to agree with that when others spoke up.

If I recall right, when the US reached an agreement with Iran on nuclear issues a few months ago, India did issue a statement welcoming it. That did not make big news. When the brown monkey speaks his chatter is unimportant. But when white man speaks - even a relatively inconsequential fellow holding a temporary naval post in the US - Indian media report his blabber as an important commentary on relations between India and Pakistan. It's not that we lack shame - we simply have no self esteem. Anyone else is always more right.

We really need to teach young Indians to respect themselves and their countrymen.