Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

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A_Gupta
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by A_Gupta »

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Last edited by A_Gupta on 18 Mar 2014 17:19, edited 1 time in total.
Philip
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Philip »

If the conspirators/cockpit crew wanted to commit grand suicide,then the usual practice is to leave a video clip with a long explanation why the act is being done and who the intended victim is.Why practice landings at 5 IOR airstrips ? If this was a hijack as becoming apparent,then it was most probably to use the passengers as hostages in a country /region that was friendly to the hijackers.Knowing that there would be investigations back home,perhaps the simulator and 5 landings is a ploy to mislead investigators before phase2 in the plot begins,the hijackers demands.The [passengers perhaps by now have all been separated and in various hideouts fo that a rescue attempt cannot be made.

Which looney would practice landing at DG,a US N-base?! That would be a funny way of committing suicide.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Vayutuvan »

What is ddg?

If the plane had to be brought down well before it reached DG (thatwould be the prudent course of action as the expected asset loss is very high), then they would have had to use Fighters (or Fighter-bombers - there is such a beast, isn't there?) or if fighters are not based at DG then they would have to use modified bombers which should have been there for just such an emergency as a rogue hijacker wanting to do AoA on DG. The reason why I said one cannot rule out fighters taking off of DG with mid air refueling for them to reach Af and back. Is it possible that a swarm of UAVs can be used with amrams to bring down a slow moving behemoth like a 777 if it is flying at low altitude? What is the upper limit altitude and range of UAVs?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Vayutuvan »

IMHO, the pilot probably is not the culprit. How do we know there are Indian subcontinent airports and DG in the flightsim at the captain's house? This information is put out to fit the "red arcs" map like a hand in the glove. If one closely looks at in what sequence the information has been released, one can surmise the the plan and reverse indjinneer. Initially when the negotiations are going on to convince the hijackers (I don't think the Pilot is the culorit - he seems like a decent guy) to accept some deal, contradicting and confusing info is put out onlee. Either the negotiaions failed or the hijackers went apesh*t AoA. So some story is worked out to fit all the info (and retracting all the info or misinfo that was initially released which does not fit the story), broken up into packets which are being released in some random order. When the talking-head eggsperts assemble these packets painstakingly the worked story would emerge magically will become the truth. If this CT has to be true, then the clinching piece of evidence would be some information to the effect that "the plane went down intact a deep part of the IO and can never be found" will come out tomorrow. Jetsam will appear after a decent time has elapsed on some beaches of IOR keeping in with the currents.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by JE Menon »

Maybe it approached Indian coastline, and was shot down well inside territorial waters and debris picked up quickly and quietly in total radio silence .... :D
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Vayutuvan »

But prevailing think in BRF is that current GoI's striking hand is stayed by massa.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ManuJ »

What if the aim of the hijacker was simply to embarrass and humiliate the Malaysian government in front of the whole world? To expose it as an ineffective and blundering regime, a national shame of a government?

If this was indeed the objective, wouldn't you say that has been admirably achieved?
The longer the plane is not found, the better...imagine the wrath and disgust of the Chinese and others if the plane is never found. The pressure of the situation may just cause the govt. to crack.

Anwar Ibrahim's supporters would love that, no?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by JE Menon »

Re staying of hand, Why would they in this case? Chinese passengers, Malay airline... Maybe they let it happen, and gently give the double edged line "nice work"....
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by vina »

Chinese start searching on land
Now expect the plane to be found very quickly. The northern part stretching from thai border to kyrgyztan is more likely, if anyone was to make an anti china statement.

After flying across the Thai/Malay isthumus, make a quick dash north up above Burma, enter China (which will be coverage nood in these areas ) away from regular flight paths, and then fly away towards Xingjiang / Northern Himachal).

The Chinese have been awfully quiet. Apart from the initial idiotic fabrications, there has been nary a whimper.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Aditya_V »

matrimc wrote:I proposed this but was shot down by TSJ. Also singha says that there are no fighters on DG. But an bomber could have been modified to be endowed with a couple of missiles. Then they sent a sub to cleanup the debris.

By the way the pings and the red north and south arcs are put out to CYA. There is a possibility of some surface vessels seeing the plane and realize now and come forward.
DG should have Land based SAM cover, and an DDG with 100 SAMs like SM-2.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ldev »

vina wrote:Chinese start searching on land
Now expect the plane to be found very quickly. The northern part stretching from thai border to kyrgyztan is more likely, if anyone was to make an anti china statement.

After flying across the Thai/Malay isthumus, make a quick dash north up above Burma, enter China (which will be coverage nood in these areas ) away from regular flight paths, and then fly away towards Xingjiang / Northern Himachal).

The Chinese have been awfully quiet. Apart from the initial idiotic fabrications, there has been nary a whimper.
A few hours ago the following post was made on the Professional Pilots Forum. Since this forum loves CTs, no harm in posting it:
I have observed all comments here with interest since Saturday 8 March.
The quality of the technical knowledge on PPRuNe is, for the most part, the best in the world.

The site.....and the 'Mods' deserve great praise.

Tanto nomini nullum par elgoium

I have not posted here for 12 years.

I was a professional pilot. (7000 hours) Before that, a British Army officer. With experience of terrorism.

For the moment I propose this, for discussion:

The aircraft landed safely in western Xinjiang, the homeland of the Uygurs, at about sunrise on Saturday 8 March. On an unpaved desert strip. The passengers are alive. They are hostages. The plane is now in bits and hidden. It is no longer required.

'Echelon' knows this.

The Chinese are looking there.....furiously. For 3 or 4 days.

I will say more tomorrow.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by member_28502 »

On DG there is a lone Texas Ranger with one man Friday who's is Injun Joe
The lone Texas ranger is equipped with a double barrel gun
Into which you can load one golden bullet and one uranium shot

As Hijacked MH 370 approached the lone Texas Ranger turned 360 degrees spotted MH 370 from his bed and with one hand squeezed you know what the trigger and boom went the bullet with loud noise and the evil plane load came down as fire ball
The lone ranger squinted and with smirk on his face, told Injun Joe to duck while standing tall
and last seen bravely in baling the flames from the plane.
His last stand saved the world that's what makes texas land of the brave
Ask for more information and chuck Norris will spin a tale
As for the Injun nobody knows what happened he was the last samurai of DG
Folklore says
Last edited by member_28502 on 18 Mar 2014 10:36, edited 1 time in total.
habal
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by habal »

If pilot would have landed in Aus or DG, then he could even claim asylum from USA/Aus, so what is the possibility that malays did indeed shoot down one of their own a/c in the middle of nowhere and are keeping mum on it. Malays are bluffing everyone here, in all probability.

Also about the possibility to land in Xinjiang, it's one big flat land so what is possibility that plane can land just about anywhere and is then destroyed. Suddenly weeghurs have 160 chinese hostages.

Another possibility is the plane landed in DG, cargo was cleaned out, pilot defected, plane refueled and was sent on it's way to Xinjiang for some tamasha at Chinese expense. So then both Malays and US is keeping quiet naturally over this.

In all possibilities here, the Malays and US are lying and the Chinese are the victims of their games.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by SSridhar »

Disturbing Scenario on MH370 - Capt. Ranganathan, The Hindu

Even 10 days after the Malaysia Airline’s Kuala Lumpur-Beijing flight MH370 went mysteriously missing, no definite information has been made available either to the families of the passengers, or in the public domain. Several theories have been floated on what could have happened to the aircraft. Aviation expert A. Ranganathan analyses the probable theories and comes up with a scary scenario:

What could have happened to the Boeing 777 aircraft? Looking at various data and information that are now available from different credible, international sources, the following sequence of events seems most probable:

1. The climb to 45,000 feet when they turned west after switching of ACARS and Transponders:

Here is the scariest scenario. If the two pilots acted in tandem or the captain sent the co-pilot out under some pretext or the other and then locked the cockpit door.

Get the crew O2 mask on and open both outflow valves after cancelling cabin warning systems. The aircraft will depressurise and the Time of Useful Consciousness is a mere 9-15 seconds unless the passenger O2 masks are donned within that time.

An expert’s hand


At 1:30 a.m., the chances are that most passengers are asleep and they may not get these on within 15 seconds. Even if they do, if the pilot continued the flight at FL450 for longer than 21 minutes, everyone in the cabin will be brain-dead, and they will not be a threat to the person in the cockpit for the rest of the flight.

Scary thought, isn’t it? It has to be done by someone who really knows the aircraft well.

2. Descent to 23,000 feet.

If the earlier flight scenario at 45,000 feet took longer than 21 minutes, he would have to descend to a lower altitude, repressurise the cabin and get cockpit temperature up so that he could function comfortably.

3. Climb to 29,500 feet.

The VFR altitude used by military aircraft in RVSM airspace. Or, an aircraft with communication failure !!

This will not alert the military radar if they are awake at that time to monitor!

4. Flight along an airway from VAMPI to IGREX.

A very clever ploy so as not to alert the AF radars who will not react much to a blip going along an airway

5. After IGREX.

The flight will definitely not move in a northern path as the AF radars are too alert in that area. The southern route is a sure bet and here is the reason that will make you all sit up.

The Car Nicobar radar was destroyed in 2004 during the tsunami and I heard that they have not replaced it with a modern radar and have only a mobile radar that is not manned during night! Even if they do have the radar on, Carnic is just a helicopter base! How are they going to catch an aircraft travelling at 0.85M?

Out of range

The Port Blair radar has an effective range of just 70-75 nautical miles. If the aircraft turned south/southwest at IGREX, there is no way it would be picked up and the radar is off during night hours.

My bet is that MH 370 has flown the southern route, maybe landed on an island like GAN, or, flown all the way south into the Indian Ocean and put down at high speed into the bottom of the ocean that will prevent any visible debris for a long time.

If it is a heist, and the aircraft is going to be used against any Indian target, this is the easiest location.

(Capt. A. Ranganathan is a former airline instructor pilot and aviation safety expert)
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Sri »

I think India is silent because they think this is a trick to find Indian radar locations and other hard assets in and around Malaca straight. Also assumption was that when the coordinates are given for search to Andaman command, the command will refute the possibility by pointing out Indian radar data. Once the Malaysians found out that Indians were just following the lead and searching the coordinates as provided by Malaysians, they lost interest. Then they put Indians on wild goose chase. Then the attache in KL would have told the Malaysian counterpart that any search mission is possible only after some more background is provided on why the coordinates are suspect.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rajiv Lather »

The Chinese are awfully quiet and their navy was the first one to quit searching.

Now the scenario which I really did not want to write down. Think many of us remember what happened recently to the 20 or so FC prisoners. They made a video and sent copies of it to all relevant news outlets and also put it on the internet. The Chinese can talk/negotiate with the Uighurs; but with AQ ?

Think one passenger a day given the "FC prisoners" treatment, with accompanying video and all.

Dont talk crash, went down into the ocean with me. Show me the wreckage or even easier, show me China searching for it. Dont talk shot down by India, China, US - if they did, they will publicize the fact - to send a clear message across.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rajiv Lather »

The behavior of the Chinese and Malaysian governments cannot be explained by anything other than a dangerous hostage situation.

For some perspective compare present Chinese reaction with the reaction to Abe's shrine visit. Someone somewhere has them on a very tight leash.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by krishnan »

Air Force's primary radars had detected an aircraft heading towards the AndamanSea -- that there was a chance that the aircraft might have flown westwards, one wishes they had requested Indian assistance much earlier.
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/mh370 ... 140317.htm
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Singha »

Maybe the ct above of a matrydom op to deeply discredit the kl govt plus bring the wrath of cheen on their head is the goal...and its already achieved.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by TSJones »

matrimc wrote:But prevailing think in BRF is that current GoI's striking hand is stayed by massa.
matrimc, a DDG is NATO standard designation for a destroyer type ship carrying guided missiles. For the US that would be an Aegis Arleigh Burke class ship.

Nobody has stayed India's hand. It has shot down a Pakistani EW plane that crossed the Indian border killing all 15-20 aboard. Naturally, the Pakis deny it crossed the border. India has also forced down and detained a US CIA recon jet airliner operated by Lockheed (IIRC) as it flew from Pakistan or the direction from Pakistan down along side India's west coast toward the Maldives/Diego Garcia. The plane never crossed into India's border but it was in India's ADIZ. India has also arrested two people flying a small aircraft into India. Everybody on BRF said they were "Americans" and were quite pleased. Turns out they were Ukraines/Russians. When Putin visited India he had to ask for their release. :rotfl:

So the whateverbody thinks is not the case. India is agressive in its protection of its airspace and borders. If the Malay jet crossed into India's territorial imperative and did not identify itself or respond properly, it's a$$ was grass and India was the lawn mower. And that is the way it is.
Last edited by TSJones on 18 Mar 2014 14:03, edited 1 time in total.
member_28502
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by member_28502 »

The Chinese are looking to skies to see under water
Therefore they ran ships back to ground bases
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Sri »

^^^

After Purulia incident AF is super sensitive about UFOs. We have even scrambled jets to deal with weather balloons approaching India from Pakistan.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by shiv »

Sri wrote:I think India is silent because they think this is a trick to find Indian radar locations and other hard assets in and around Malaca straight. Also assumption was that when the coordinates are given for search to Andaman command, the command will refute the possibility by pointing out Indian radar data. Once the Malaysians found out that Indians were just following the lead and searching the coordinates as provided by Malaysians, they lost interest. Then they put Indians on wild goose chase. Then the attache in KL would have told the Malaysian counterpart that any search mission is possible only after some more background is provided on why the coordinates are suspect.
The old schoolboy trick is to let off a silent, stinking fart and ask "Whose ears are hot?". The first guy who touches his ears is blamed for the fart.

Malaysia has played this game with China, India and others. They have asked "Whose radar operators have been asleep?" And China, India and others are expected to go back and check if they have been asleep simply because Malaysia is accusing their ears of being hot.

Ptchah! Don't know how we can fall for such stupid games.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Singha »

The search ops at sea are over...everyone has folded their tent and left.
unless Malaysia rents deep sea vessels for a couple of years and sends them to search the south arc.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Singha »

Oppn leader Anwar says zaharie is related to his son's inlaws and had been seen in many meetings.

some are claiming zaharie a political fanatic.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by shiv »

Old report from IDRW
http://idrw.org/?p=34887
If the jetliner had tried to cross the Indian mainland, our primary radars (which bounce radio signals off targets) would have picked it up despite its transponders being switched off (secondary radars beam signals that request information from a plane's transponders), said a top IAF officer.If anunidentified plane had been picked up flouting prescribed procedures or with switched-off transponders or not squawking IFF (identification, friend or foe) codes, a series of air defence measures would have kicked in including the scrambling of fighters to detect, identify, intercept and destroy the intruder.

Senior IAF and Navy officers admitted there werea few gaps in India's civil and military radar networks but stressed it would bevirtually impossible for a jetliner to fly undetected across the Indian mainland. The five Airports Authority of India radars at Delhi, Kolkata, Ahmedabad, Chennai and Mumbai are integrated with IAF's air defence network. The possibility is far-fetched, said an officer.

Why also forget the robust air defence networks of countries like Pakistan, fully-geared towards India, or the US-led forces in Afghanistan or Iran for that matter, all of which would have been on this so-called flight arc, he added. Former IAF vice-chief Air Marshal P K Barbora, in turn, added, Both India and Pakistan are very wary of any blip that comes up on their radars
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Lalmohan »

the malaysian opposition parties are not all that fanatical - they are liberal democrats for the most part. the islamist parties are aligned to the ruling party
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by shiv »

Rajiv Lather wrote:The behavior of the Chinese and Malaysian governments cannot be explained by anything other than a dangerous hostage situation.

For some perspective compare present Chinese reaction with the reaction to Abe's shrine visit. Someone somewhere has them on a very tight leash.
I would place my bets on the opposite side and say that intel assets of the US and other nations will pick up any secret negotiations that the Malaysians may be trying to handle. The info will come out into the open. The Malaysians may have secure comm, but the terrorists are unlikely to be unmonitored no matter who they are. Heck even Indian intel is monitoring everyone in case bad things are said about politicians and the first Italian family
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rajiv Lather »

The search area has now been narrowed down to a mere 2.24 million square nautical miles... Oh God !
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Harpal Bector »

Yes everything in an airplane is engineered to work properly - but if not maintained to exact standards - problems will occur.

As long as whoever shot/downed the plane, pays the Malays/Boeing to pay off whoever is holding them responsible - the matter will go away.

I feel this matter can be spun away - a credible sounding explanation like a fire in the cabin due or ice crystals in the pitot tube can be offered. Any natives who claim otherwise can be dismissed as a bunch of drunks hallucinating.
Last edited by Harpal Bector on 18 Mar 2014 15:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Harpal Bector »

This a/c is too big to be left out there. It has to be found.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Dilbu »

So either it crashed or it is sitting somewhere in IOR ready to be used as a ram rod. Neither of these are comforting thoughts. The second one is very very dangerous for India.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Harpal Bector »

Keeping the pax alive after a soft landing imposes high overhead costs. Physical security has to be provided at the landing site and this will not come cheap. The labour may be cheap but the political overhead will be significant.

The Kandahar saga showed that the political overhead costs can be very high if the location of the a/c is known. The Taliban regime was blamed for allowing its territory to be used by Azhar's friends.

OTOH if the location of the a/c can be kept quiet, then the political overhead cost is low. Some states in SEA have areas where the writ of the central government does not run and the region is controlled by drug trafficking armies ex. United Wa State Army in Burma. They could provide the necessary services at reasonable prices. The a/c frame could be made part of the payoff to the group. That being said - something on this scale would have a large footprint and likely surface in intelligence reports. If nothing else others who bid for the contract but failed to get it would rat out the arrangement.

A more cost sensitive option is to crash the a/c and use the position of the remains as a negotiating chip. The payoff would be smaller, but so would the footprint and maybe the margin on this is higher?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by chilarai »

curiouser and curiouser


pilot is the relative of opposition leader anwar , who i think was recently convicted of sodomy
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-ne ... ve-2014031
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Tanaji »

Dumb question : why isn't anyone picking black box transmissions? That is not linked to ACARS isn't it and cant be turned off?

As for UlanBatoris past... I suggest you search for Coca Cola...
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rajiv Lather »

Tanaji wrote:As for UlanBatoris past... I suggest you search for Coca Cola...
So, he is George Fernandes in disguise ?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by anupmisra »

Missing Malaysia plane: Chinese territory searched. Pee Pee and See article.
China says it has started searching its territory for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, while Australia has narrowed its search area in the south.
Chinese Ambassador to Malaysia Huang Huikang said that search and rescue operations in the Chinese territories of the northern corridor had begun
Like I said...
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Harpal Bector »

Strange - the RAN and NTSB selected search area south of Perth appears to be far outside the arcs identified by the Malays.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by sattili »

While Chinese are at it..someone should tell them to look at thick forests of Vietnam and Cambodia as well.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rajiv Lather »

Harpal Bector wrote:Strange - the RAN and NTSB selected search area south of Perth appears to be far outside the arcs identified by the Malays.
Not strange - this is the new normal...
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