Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

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UlanBatori
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

And that is the only CT that fits all the known facts. Those "releasing" info have carefully made sure that anyone who may have been interested in the answer is thoroughly disgusted. I am still surprised that PRC is so quiet. And that Russia is quiet. Surely they remember the hammering they took after KAL007?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Harpal Bector »

Why go to all that trouble?

Just say it was an accident due to some sub system failure in the MAS flight, collect the wreckage and get an NTSB enquiry to sanctify the conclusion.
Pay the Malays off and end it there instead if some convoluted stream of nonsense.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Harpal Bector »

Here is a simpler CT--Botched hijacking negotiations

When the ac was in the air, the hijackers contacted the Malays. The Malays blew them off or generally screwed up the negotiations due to their lack of experience.

Hijackers responded by letting the ac go to ground and now is shaking the Malays down using their knowledge of the final resting place of the ac.

And the Malays are still balking at the price as they dont know if the ac landed hard or soft.

When everyone from Burma to Kazakhstan confirms ac is not in their aor, Malays can safely assume pax are dead and bargain the hijackers price down from that utterly idiotic point of certainity.

That should explain why everyone in the PRC, IN, US etc... wants to give the Malays one swift kick in the nuts.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by A_Gupta »

The inquisition will begin, but later.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 61719.html
UlanBatori
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

Just say it was an accident due to some sub system failure in the MAS flight, collect the wreckage and get an NTSB enquiry to sanctify the conclusion.
What subsystem? Aircraft subsystem failure is not supposed to lead to fatal accident, that is the whole point of aircraft design. Huge lawsuit against Boeing; Boeing will fight tooth and nail; FAA will fight tooth and nail; Airbus will chortle. 777 credibility is on the line, many sales will be lost.

Saying it was an accident would have been possible in the first hour, but not now. Once the Top Level decided to cover up, things just got worse and worse. They don't want everyone scanning Malay Peninsula with magnifying glass and wandering around asking questions to natives.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by sadhana »

CNN reporting 'breaking story' in the NYT to the effect that the course change of the plane came from a change in the computer entered by keystrokes located on a panel between the pilot and co-pilot.

What if the pilot had a heart attack or sthing and fell on that panel?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by vina »

Ulan Batori wrote:So Le Reading de Vitesse (speed reading) started showing Null (as in 0) so L'Auto-Pilotte pulled up stick to increase angle of attack in order to increase ze Leeft - and that's why it stalled. Le Funda d'Airo-dynamique: go past stall angle, you stall
Excusez moi , Monsieur,

But that iz le faulte, n'est ce pas?

If le reading de vitesse is null, you would drop the nose down to pick up le vitesse na and increase power? Pour quoi, le Pilote pulls up nose and drop speed even further? Why fight agains mama gravity, when she can work for you ?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Vayutuvan »

Harpal ji: Here is what I posted in two previous posts in the previous page.
My CT is as follows (as an aside it would warm the cockles of dear hakim saab).

1. As soon as the ACARS was turned off, demands were made by the hijackers to allow them to proceed to FATA overflying India.

2. Malays might have tried for one hour to convince them to land somewhere in Mal/Indonesia/Vietnam/Nicobar. By then the plane was already across the Malay landmass. The Malay Mil radar picked it up and knew that they are hell bent on going towards the subcontinent.
...
and in response to Rohit:
Hijackers needed to prove that they have control of the plane and have the expertise to fly it as they wish. MAS gave them a bunch of way points and hijackers flew that predetermined path which MAS verified. First MAS might have told them to go ahead and proceed and to prove a point they might have told the Malaysian military to look at some coordinates at 2:11 AM and they were there. So now ground wanted to verify whether they can really navigate the plane using autopilot and hence a list of way points were given and the pilot(s) executed the maneuvres correctly. After that there is no data has been made public. nada from Malaysia, China, US, India, Vietnam, RR, Inmarsat. But it is being released in bits and pieces as the data became stale.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 18 Mar 2014 06:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

Vinaji, that is where I say that les conclusions de Le Panel d'Inquiree were a bit tipsy. The claim is that Le Pilote Secondaire kept pulling Le Stick de Controle back to take the nose up, and Le Pilote Premiere kept pushing it down, so L'Computer Auto-Pilote sat on its thumb like Le Bureaucrat and did nothing. Which is ludicrous because every pilote, even moi, knows instinctively to push Le Nose down to alleviate stall. BUT.. that's what they apparently concluded. Something was way screwy to have caused that crash. No way a blocked Pitot Tube could have done that - unless LeSoftware was written by Les idiotes, and never checked.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 18 Mar 2014 06:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Prasad »

Vinaji, pliss to dekho this - from wiki -
One factor may be that since the A330 does not normally accept control inputs that would cause a stall, the pilots were unaware that a stall could happen when the aircraft switched to an alternate mode due to failure of the air speed indication.[170] [Note 7]

The third interim report stated that some new facts had been established. In particular:

The pilots had not applied the unreliable-airspeed procedure.
The pilot-in-control pulled back on the stick, thus increasing the angle of attack and causing the aircraft to climb rapidly.
The pilots apparently did not notice that the aircraft had reached its maximum permissible altitude.
The pilots did not read out the available data (vertical velocity, altitude, etc.).
The stall warning sounded continuously for 54 seconds.
The pilots did not comment on the stall warnings and apparently did not realize that the aircraft was stalled.
There was some buffeting associated with the stall.
The stall warning deactivates by design when the angle of attack measurements are considered invalid, and this is the case when the airspeed drops below a certain limit.
In consequence, the stall warning stopped and came back on several times during the stall; in particular, it came on whenever the pilot pushed forward on the stick and then stopped when he pulled back; this may have confused the pilots.
Despite the fact that they were aware that altitude was declining rapidly, the pilots were unable to determine which instruments to trust: it may have appeared to them that all values were incoherent.[9]

The BEA assembled a human factors working group to analyze the crew's actions and reactions during the final stages of the flight.[184]

A brief bulletin by Air France indicated that "the misleading stopping and starting of the stall warning alarm, contradicting the actual state of the aircraft, greatly contributed to the crew's difficulty in analyzing the situation."[185][186]
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

The pilots had not applied the unreliable-airspeed procedure.
The pilot-in-control pulled back on the stick, thus increasing the angle of attack and causing the aircraft to climb rapidly.
The pilots apparently did not notice that the aircraft had reached its maximum permissible altitude.
The pilots did not read out the available data (vertical velocity, altitude, etc.).
The stall warning sounded continuously for 54 seconds.
The pilots did not comment on the stall warnings and apparently did not realize that the aircraft was stalled.
Either Les Pilotes had drunk too much of Le Champagne spiked with more than the usual percentage of gasoline, or they were dead/incapacitated (see about no communication either). The latter is far more probable. Maybe hail broke the windshield. Maybe a lightning bolt.

I don't understand all this "alternate mode for velocity error" bijnej. All gibberish designed to obscure the real error. Like I said, flaps getting deflected to max setting due to a stupid software error, is a more probable cause for that accident. It would try to nose the plane down, won't it? Pilot may have tried to counter that by pulling back, and anyway, that would cause structural failure. I once had a ground instructor who used to be a Harrier pilot. Said he once forgot to raise the flaps and went 400 knots, and they grounded the plane for repairs. Counted himself lucky to survive.

Also, it flew right into a thunderstorm. When a plane hits the edge of such a storm, it first experiences a strong updraft, causing angle of attack to rise sharply. Auto- or human pilot compensates by lowering nose sharply. It then enters the region of very strong downdraft, and loses altitude like going in an express elevator. Flying through that, it again encounters the sharp updraft at the other side, and that could really stall the a/c. But they are supposed to know all that.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 18 Mar 2014 07:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by vasu raya »

If Malays knew about hijackers and their demands early on, why didn't they scramble RMAF?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Singha »

Taliban does not control any proper airport in afpak.
the tsp to save its own hide will gladly let foreign govts send in troops if it lands on tsp side like quetta or pushpapura
so fata theory doesn't make sense.6000ft concrete runways are tough to hide.

Imo plane went to ground in Malaysia itself or its in bottom of southern ocean miles deep.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by vina »

If Malays knew about hijackers and their demands, why didn't they scramble RMAF?
The Malaysians had no idea where the plane was, once it crossed west. The transponders were switched off and no communications. No one, not even Unkil can find a plane in the middle of the Atlantic say with the transponders switched off.

The only guys who can have answers to the "southern arc" theory are the Australians who operate over the horizon (like Jindalee) radar that can track such aircraft (range like 3000 kms or so) out into the sea. There must be on in the west coast of Australia.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by VikramS »

Completely OT but can some one message me UlanBatori's previous avatar? Helps put things in context.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

A 777 can land (and take off) on any wide highway in open country, hain? As long as there are no lampposts, telegraph poles etc?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by vasu raya »

If they were out of contact, they may not have communicated any demands at least directly
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by shiv »

Here is a story - actually it is a mix of several similar stories because I have read so many similar ones.

Mallesh kills his wife Lakshmi because she has discovered that he is having an affair.

Kids come from school and ask "Where is mummy?". Mallesh says "Gone to native place. Tata not well"
Neighbour asks "Where is Lakshmi". Mallesh says "Gone to native"
Tailor-employer asks "Why Lakshmi naat cum for 4 days?" "Gaan to native. Father sick"
Lakshmi's father appears and asks "Where is Lakshmi?"
Mallesh files missing person FIR. He is nailed.

The Malaysians are doing the same thing as Malays er Mallesh.

Plane missing.
Gone to Vietnam
Gone to Andamans
Gone to Kazakhstan

But its not in any one of those places.

It's about time someone told the stupids in Malaysia the one most obvious fate of the plane and its unfortunate passengers. Adm Arun Prakash had it right first shot. The Malasians are simply buggering around and beating about the bush. They need to admit that the plane is gone. Gone. "Gone" planes are crashed planes. Amelia Earhart and Vikram Sarabhai were not abducted by aliens. They crashed in places where humans could not find them.

Malaysia is taking the world for a ride. I think it is simply condemnable. Hack thoo.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

Vikram Sarabhai? U mean Homi J. Bhabha. They recently found a lot of that wreckage on Mont Blanc incl jewelry. Probably stole it, being Les Francais or Les Suisse. Also, this story is right along shiv's tale:
On Monday, the Malaysian newspaper New Straits Times reported that the plane may have flown low to the ground -- 5,000 feet or less -- and used mountainous terrain as cover to evade radar detection. The newspaper cited unnamed sources

If they did that, the passengers could have easily called with their cellphones. Most would have been petrified out of their wits, many would be screaming, many throwing up, but with 237 ppl, 154 Chinese ppl, SOMEONE would have called.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 18 Mar 2014 07:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Prasad »

UlanBatori wrote: I don't understand all this "alternate mode for velocity error" bijnej. All gibberish designed to obscure the real error. Like I said, flaps getting deflected to max setting due to a stupid software error, is a more probable cause for that accident. It would try to nose the plane down, won't it? Pilot may have tried to counter that by pulling back, and anyway, that would cause structural failure. I once had a ground instructor who used to be a Harrier pilot. Said he once forgot to raise the flaps and went 400 knots, and they grounded the plane for repairs. Counted himself lucky to survive.

Also, it flew right into a thunderstorm. When a plane hits the edge of such a storm, it first experiences a strong updraft, causing angle of attack to rise sharply. Auto- or human pilot compensates by lowering nose sharply. It then enters the region of very strong downdraft, and loses altitude like going in an express elevator. Flying through that, it again encounters the sharp updraft at the other side, and that could really stall the a/c. But they are supposed to know all that.
The noob copilot Bonin pulled back the stick and held it there right until they hit the water. CVR transcripts quote him saying he did so and wondering what was happening. The other pilots realised only then that they were screwed. Why? Quaid only knows.

Anyway, I think pilot error might not be the problem here.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by shiv »

At the height of terrorism in India and the world, conducted by groups with names like "Jaish e Mohammad:, "Lashkar e Tayeba", Al Qaeda, "Taliban", "Harkat ul Mujahideen" , Malaysia was the country that demanded that no one should make any connection between Muslims and terrorism. They were in denial until the world ROTFLed them off the headlines.

Once again the Malaysian government and military are in denial. I betcha the call to MMS was to beg India to relok, re examine and review radar records. But wtf? Even if India does that Lakhsmi is not in her dad's place. MH 370 is not where the Malaysians claim it must have gone. They are acting like utter idiots.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by shiv »

UlanBatori wrote:Vikram Sarabhai? U mean Homi J. Bhabha. They recently found a lot of that wreckage on Mont Blanc incl jewelry. Probably stole it, being Les Francais or Les Suisse.
er yes - those space scientists.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by vasu raya »

Self deleted
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Shreeman »

shiv wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Vikram Sarabhai? U mean Homi J. Bhabha. They recently found a lot of that wreckage on Mont Blanc incl jewelry. Probably stole it, being Les Francais or Les Suisse.
er yes - those space scientists.
1. Plane turned back, asked to land. Not allowed. Followed by CAP. Downed where convenient.
2. Plane turned back, did not ask to land. Magic programmed in computers. Crashed.
3. Plane turned back, night and dark runways, mechanical problem. Rest is fight between computer and pilot. Crashed.
4. Virus meant for Better Korea plane. Uploaded by accident. Planes will fall out of sky left and right.
5. Plane turned back. People in aviation rack downstairs. Programmed overrides. Crashed.
6. Plane turned back, shadiwed SIA68 (this is actually possible!), and then crashed in some ravine.
7. Plane turned back, took northern rroute, crashed in Myanmar. Myanmar no lookie into anything.
8. Plane turned back, too southern route. Forget finding it.
9. Plane shot down by Vietnam.
10. Plane shot diwn by China.
11. Plane shot down by Malaysis.
12. Plane shot down by Brunei.
13. Plane shot down by Taiwan.
14. Plane shot down by Merica.

15. Plane flew like magiv. Landed.

So, "no findee anythingeee then", right?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Singha »

VikramS wrote:Completely OT but can some one message me UlanBatori's previous avatar? Helps put things in context.
there are some rocks that are best not to turn over...
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Shreeman »

Singha wrote:
VikramS wrote:Completely OT but can some one message me UlanBatori's previous avatar? Helps put things in context.
there are some rocks that are best not to turn over...
I like turning over rocks. sometimes there is a worm. Also sometimes snakes.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

Sometimes rock falls on foot. and another foot steps on rock. Shreeman, ur list does not include the One and Only Plausible CT now:
Plane collides with govt-sponsored/contracted UFO, crashes and wreckage is buried, govt says "hu, we?"
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ramana »

sadhana wrote:CNN reporting 'breaking story' in the NYT to the effect that the course change of the plane came from a change in the computer entered by keystrokes located on a panel between the pilot and co-pilot.

What if the pilot had a heart attack or sthing and fell on that panel?

SHQ has this benign intent theory. Soon after the co-pilot gave his Good night message the senior pilot had a heart attack and died. His outstretched hand hit the transponder. the co-pilot panicked and turned the plane and tried to land the plane and it went into the sea intact.

Willadd more details tomorrow
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Shreeman »

UlanBatori wrote:Sometimes rock falls on foot. and another foot steps on rock. Shreeman, ur list does not include the One and Only Plausible CT now:
Plane collides with govt-sponsored/contracted UFO, crashes and wreckage is buried, govt says "hu, we?"
I like the snake story better. Rocks and feet dont bite.

Still no findee anythingee, though? I also didnt include aliens, decompression, control surface damage, siberian crane strike, cargo coming loose en masses, hole in the fuselage progressively getting bigger, brakes catching fire on take off, smoking passanger or copilot lighting plane on fire, drunk passanger smashing window, AoA and open the emergency door, gamers setting up LAN party and screwing up all communications, bathroon mile high session leading to toilet being sent out the fuselage, food sickness or drinks being doctored, drugs in the cargo mixing witrh cabin air, and so on.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Prasad »

So the US destroyer is quitting its search mission and going back to its usual routine. So US quit, India quit. Hu else quit?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Vayutuvan »

Singha wrote:Taliban does not control any proper airport in afpak.
the tsp to save its own hide will gladly let foreign govts send in troops if it lands on tsp side like quetta or pushpapura
so fata theory doesn't make sense.6000ft concrete runways are tough to hide.

Imo plane went to ground in Malaysia itself or its in bottom of southern ocean miles deep.
No I am not saying it is in FATA or wanted to yo there. But there could be a link to nonstate and the final destination is in Xinxiang or noe rerouted to SCS or even Malaysia itself.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Vayutuvan »

vasu raya wrote:If they were out of contact, they may not have communicated any demands at least directly
Why are we assuming that they are out of contact? The demands may be already known to the intrerlocutors who ever they are.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ravar »

Credence to foul-play by the captain, if true-

'US military base, South Asian airports in MH370 pilot’s simulator, says paper'

http://my.news.yahoo.com/us-military-so ... m=facebook

Quote- "Among the software we checked so far is the Male International Airport in Maldives, three airports in India and Sri Lanka, and one belonging to the US military base in Diego Garcia. All have a runway length of 1,000 metres," a source told the Malay daily."
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rishi »

CT: Hijacked plane on way to DG for a kamikaze run. Pilot says plane hijacked, seeks permission to land (or there is no radio comm whatsoever]. DG says No, and scrambles air assets (f15s?). 777 continues to approach, and is shot down preemptively.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Vayutuvan »

I proposed this but was shot down by TSJ. Also singha says that there are no fighters on DG. But an bomber could have been modified to be endowed with a couple of missiles. Then they sent a sub to cleanup the debris.

By the way the pings and the red north and south arcs are put out to CYA. There is a possibility of some surface vessels seeing the plane and realize now and come forward.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rishi »

matrimc wrote:I proposed this but was shot down by TSJ. Also singha says that there are no fighters on DG. But an bomber could have been modified to be endowed with a couple of missiles. Then they sent a sub to cleanup the debris.

By the way the pings and the red north and south arcs are put out to CYA. There is a possibility of some surface vessels seeing the plane and realize now and come forward.
Fair. Approaches DG. Chickens out, hijackers say take it to Australia, runs out of fuel short of Perth (hence on the arc).
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by symontk »

if it has crashed, the cleanup is easy if other people are not looking at you (remember checks in South china sea, Andaman Sea)

Get a big net and capture all the floating mess
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Singha »

Dg would have Sam battery as it houses 5000. Also the roving ddg kept for seaward defence and sar has sm2 and spy1.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by vera_k »

Has there been a reward offered for any information about the plane yet? The absence of a reward implies they know where the plane is - either on land or at the bottom of the ocean.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Singha »

All except dg could be apts he has flown to in normal duty. But dg is a bit of red flag though could just be curiosity or mental practice fr emergency.

btw the melbourne atc zone stretches upto the maldives..so the vhf radios on planes have incrediuble range it seems.
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