Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

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chaanakya
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by chaanakya »

wilson_th wrote:what if it safely landed on the ocean and then slowly sinked ( thought tragic it is) .... then the black box will not give off signals?

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/as ... 06446.html

"The working assumption is that it went south, and furthermore that it went to the southern end of that corridor," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity
if Pilots were able to land safely ( presumably they wanted to save lives and dealing with emergency) they why they did not activate Cabin ELT and ramps which double up as rafts etc. If they wanted to commit suicide they wold have done so spectacularly while taking off and probably heading into Petronas. Or did they develop suicidal tendencies later?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by symontk »

Dilbu wrote:Is there any CT left to be presented in this thread. :D
Yes one more

Such a flight MH370 doesn't exist
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rajiv Lather »

Harpal Bector wrote:In aviation security matters, Uncle Sam gets involved if the either there is a threat to CONUS airspace, a USMIL asset or if the interests of a major US corporation are threatened.

If the Malays shot the airliner down, none of those seem possible.
They are in deep - but like you, am also confused about the "why" - the only theory I could come up was trying to protect every pearl in the string of pearls around China's neck. Or maybe the Americans have an important base there somewhere.

If the above theory is correct, then they are transporting pieces of wreckage to Australia. And at a later date, the in-charge of southern arc, the faithful south poodle will "find" the wreckage there and attempt a favorable closure.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

harbans: from ur link:
Pieces of what is suspected to be an aircraft were seen washed up on Andhra coast Wednesday, a Telugu television channel reported. Fishermen, who saw them floating at Kutta Gouduru beach in T P Gudur mandal of Nellore district in south coastal Andhra off Bay of Bengal, informed the police. The authorities alerted the top officials. However, there was no confirmation from any official if the objects seen floating were indeed pieces of an aircraft, the channel reported. There were reports that missing plane may have crashed either in the Bay of Bengal or in the Indian Ocean: IANS
Hello, it's on TV and not being picked up?

************CT Disclaimer:
Note Per CT#1, Final Step is that a few items small enough to be put in an SUV would have been taken to some far place and miraculously "washed up" or otherwise "found". Indian fishermen prime candidates to find those. **************************
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by A_Gupta »

Intermediate pings and the flight path of MH370
Image

What has been released to us great unwashed public is the possible positions of MH370 based on the 8:11 AM (Malaysian time) satellite ping from the aircraft. That is what is shown in the diagram above.

What has not been released to us are the positions based on the satellite pings of 2:11AM, 3:11AM, 4:11AM, 5:11AM, 6:11AM. Supposing they exist, what might they look like in different scenarios?

Suppose MH370 flew over peninsular India on a north-west heading. We would expect the intermediate pings to show the possible plane positions as arcs between the starting position (last radar contact with MH370) that is between the 45 and 50 degree circles, and the 65 degree circle, going 50-60-65-60-50-45-40: i.e., increase to a peak angle and then a decrease. The southern route consistent with this pattern would take the plane to the south-west Indian Ocean, which is far from where anyone is searching today.

Suppose MH370 flew over the Maldives, We would expect the intermediate positions to go 50-60-70-80 - i.e., monotonic increase. There is no northern route consistent with this pattern.

Suppose MH370 flew to where the Americans & Australians are looking in the ocean to the west of Perth, Australia. The intermediate pings would remain between 50 and 40. The northern route consistent with such behavior would put the plane in Myanmar, or over the Chinese border into Tibet, and Xinjiang.

Thus, the pattern of angles of the intermediate pings would indicate where the aircraft has gone, unambiguously if it flew over the Maldives, and in otherwise over (India, southwest Indian Ocean) or else (Myanmar/China, southeast Indian Ocean).

Thus we can conclude that one of the following is true:

1. The intermediate pings don't exist or do not allow for position determination.
2. All this about the plane flying over India, Pakistan, the Maldives is bullshit. The only two sets of places to look for the plane are over Myanmar/China or in the ocean off of Perth.
3. The search for the plane in the ocean off of Perth is bullshit, and the intermediate pings show the plane headed over India to Pakistan/Central Asia or the southwest Indian Ocean; or the intermediate pings show the plane headed to the Maldives.

Assuming the Americans and Australians would not engage in massive deception, (2.) above has to be the case.

My guess is that China would not take kindly to the Americans overtly looking closely at Chinese areas, so the Chinese are taking that part of the search (if they haven't already found the plane) and the Americans are taking the southern search. One indication that American intelligence has figured out that the Chinese have spotted the plane would be if the Americans abruptly abandon the search in the southern seas.

I guess the reason the positions revealed by the intermediate pings have not been released to the public is because what I wrote above would become instantly obvious and so (insert your favorite CT here).
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by A_Gupta »

^^^ a truly smart and diligent person might be able to take the narrow focused south Indian ocean area that the Australians are searching, and project it to the equivalent position in Myanmar/China.

Here's how: (image from here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... earch-live )

Image

1. Assume the Americans have computed the Southern Route in good faith, and including using information from the intermediate pings the aircraft made with the Inmarsat satellite.

2. Pick a point in the South Indian Ocean search area. Draw a reasonable trajectory from the last known radar contact with MH370 to the point in the search area.

3. Divide that trajectory into 5-6 equal parts (assuming the plane went at roughly constant speed).

4. Read off the angles the Inmarsat satellite would have read from the four-five dividing points that divide the trajectory in (3.)

5. Draw equivalent northern route(s), keeping the same Inmarsat angles and distances.

6. Do this for sufficient number of points in the south Indian Ocean search area. That will give you the best available public estimate for where the plane might be in the northern route.

7. A better computation will also factor in wind speeds. The trajectory in (2.) gives you ground speed. Use known windspeeds to figure the correct ground speed to use in the northern trajectory.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 19 Mar 2014 17:41, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rajiv Lather »

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ a truly smart and diligent person might be able to take the narrow focused south Indian ocean area that the Australians are searching, and project it to the equivalent position in Myanmar/China.
Highway G217 - has stretches where there is nothing but sand for 200 km either way... golden triangle already covered - yet another CT
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

I have not figured out one thing:
1. Can INMARSAT figure out the azimuth from where a ping came? If it can figure out one angle of the incoming ping (red circle), why can't it also figure out the other angular coordinate and hence identify precise position at last ping?
2. Or is it anywhere INSIDE that red circle, INMARSAT's cone of coverage, with max range indicated by where the circle ends? GEO sats have finite, limited zone of reception to prevent cross-talk.
3. If the latter is the case, prior pings could only be picked up if they were within that circle. OK, so they are really not telling us anything. If prior pings were inside the circle, then we know how minimum time spent inside the circle. If they know both azimuth, then we can see what it was doing.
4. Why is "last possible position" not a circle with center at "last radar contact" and radius = remaining range inside INMARSAT ping circle? How does it matter where the plane has been before then if one is to believe the "last known position"? It seems fairly certain that a deliberately piloted plane would change direction as it pleased.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by vina »

How cute. Noo Yakk Times is quoting the Malaysians as saying that the data in the flight sim was wiped clean a month ago (and hence the pilot is suspect now! :lol: :lol: ) and they are getting "international" and "specialized" help to see if they can recover data from logs!

In Inglees it means "This is another red herring. We have bin Fartin , and will keep fartin to make some noise in the absence of hard news and information"
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rajiv Lather »

vina wrote:How cute. Noo Yakk Times is quoting the Malaysians as saying that the data in the flight sim was wiped clean a month ago (and hence the pilot is suspect now! :lol: :lol: )
Unexplained flight is considered as evidence of consciousness of guilt.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Philip »

It keeps on getting more suspenseful,like a Hitchcock film.Now the Malaysians say that "files gave been deleted" from the pilot's simulator.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by member_28352 »

What do we know till now?
1. Turning off the transponder was a deliberate act. Per information from previous pages of this thread only the transponder in a Boeing aircraft is a rotary dial and not an on/off switch. So somebody in the cockpit was upto no good on that day.
2. Local terrorism can be discounted. If Malaysian terrorists wanted to send a message to Malay govt, perhaps because Anwar Ibrahim was jailed, they would have spectacularly crashed the plane in Malaysia itself. In any case, the sodomy case against Anwar Ibrahim is atleast a decade old. Perhaps the judgement came in now. So while the supporter pilot may have been upset it couldn't have been an immediate trigger to commit an act of terrorism. This should then also rule out the possibility of the plane being crashed deliberately in the Indian ocean.
3. Perhaps the people who were upto no good didn't know that Rolls Royce engines emitted pings every hour. Either that or the ping data is all BS meant to hoodwink people.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Sri »

People who worry about security of southern peninsula based on range of ATC radar at Trivandrum Airport... need not do so.

Whole of India is well covered with south having many strategic locations. Western Naval Command, Nuclear power stations, our space assets and ity vity industry to name a few.

India need not come out and describe the whole set up in details. As I posted earlier many in establishment think that Malays are more interested in knowing about other country's radar assets then look for plane. Hence every one is sitting tight (including Thai). The onus is on Malaysia to solve this mystery. If they expect Vietnam, India, China and Thailand to share their military radar data then they are sadly mistaken. Even Pakistan is not going to disclose these details.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Lalmohan »

Philip wrote:It keeps on getting more suspenseful,like a Hitchcock film.Now the Malaysians say that "files gave been deleted" from the pilot's simulator.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html
i bet you deleted a couple of files from your machine last week. that makes you a suspect too
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Joype »

Could missing MH370 flight have been ‘swapped’ mid-air?

Aviation expert and former Malaysian Air Force instructor examines some theories about disappearance

http://news.yahoo.com/could-mah730-have ... 28312.html

(Ian Black is the author of two Haynes Manuals, the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom Manual and the RAF Tornado Manual, which is published in June)
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by symontk »

Joype wrote:Could missing MH370 flight have been ‘swapped’ mid-air?

Aviation expert and former Malaysian Air Force instructor examines some theories about disappearance

http://news.yahoo.com/could-mah730-have ... 28312.html

(Ian Black is the author of two Haynes Manuals, the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom Manual and the RAF Tornado Manual, which is published in June)
some of the discussions few pages back was on this only
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Jayram »

Talking to a colleague whose spouse is a pilot with a major airline.. the suspicion is on the pilot. It is very unusual for someone to have a complete flight simulator in thier backyard. Not the software type but the full gizmo with hydraluic legs et all..
FWIW
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by UlanBatori »

If I was a rich senior airline captain and I wanted my munna baccha to have major H&D among his buddies, I would buy him the biggest and most realistic flight sim I could buy. Keeps him away from the flying clubs and on Twitter instead of doing stupid things.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Lalmohan »

hell, i'd get myself one if i could!
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ramana »

What exactly is the flight simulator the pilot is supposed to have? Not MS Flight Simulator I hope.

Answering my own question:
MH-370 Live:Telegraph
...10.36 Jonathan Pearlman in Kuala Lumpur says we now know the names of the flight simulator games used by the pilot of MH370 on his homemade device.

Police said Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah played the games Flight Simulator X, Flight Simulator 9 and X-Plane 10. The logs from these games were deleted on February 3 and police are trying to access the deleted information. I spoke yesterday to Peter Chong, a friend of the pilot, who said Zaharie was proud of the simulator but made no attempt to hide it and invited most of his friends to use it.

The investigation is ongoing but at this stage police appear to have found nothing suspicious.
Anyone on BRF familiar with these programs?
Theo_Fidel

Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Theo_Fidel »

The trail has run cold. The last 10 pages are deep in rinse repeat mode and can be safely skipped.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by chetak »

Jayram wrote:Talking to a colleague whose spouse is a pilot with a major airline.. the suspicion is on the pilot. It is very unusual for someone to have a complete flight simulator in thier backyard. Not the software type but the full gizmo with hydraluic legs et all..
FWIW
Jayram ji,

I think that he had a very sophisticated computer based simulator like many many pilots do at home. Like a great many ordinary folks as well. It's a great hobby and keeps the pilots off the streets and also from lusting after the cabin crew off watch.

You add on bits and pieces as you go along (and are able to afford, gradually). Thus over time the sophistication grows. You can easily buy pirated software stuff, exchange programs with other enthusiasts etc.

The full gizmo with hydraulic legs et al costs millions of dollars and needs constant and heavy maintenance to keep it going, not to mention very special foundation to anchor the legs, so this he did not have for sure.
Last edited by chetak on 19 Mar 2014 20:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by JE Menon »

Ndtv says new search zones given to India by Malaysia

Goi considering stepping up deployents in new effort
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Singha »

he had a 6 screen PC based rig thats all. not the pilot school room thing.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Lalmohan »

he didn't have a motion system on his rig. just a multi-screen set up with control hardware
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ramana »

Jayram, The telegraph article linked above has a picture

Image

It looks like three screens to give panoramic view.
The article says three simulator programs were available.


Until we get more info I think the pilot angle is red herring.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by member_22733 »

I have a 3 monitor workstation and a 32 inch tv and I play tank SIM and war SIM sometimes..... should I be worried?

Oh and as last week's pc clean up I deleted logs, cache, cookies etc.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by chaanakya »

ramana wrote:What exactly is the flight simulator the pilot is supposed to have? Not MS Flight Simulator I hope.

Answering my own question:
MH-370 Live:Telegraph
...10.36 Jonathan Pearlman in Kuala Lumpur says we now know the names of the flight simulator games used by the pilot of MH370 on his homemade device.

Police said Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah played the games Flight Simulator X, Flight Simulator 9 and X-Plane 10. The logs from these games were deleted on February 3 and police are trying to access the deleted information. I spoke yesterday to Peter Chong, a friend of the pilot, who said Zaharie was proud of the simulator but made no attempt to hide it and invited most of his friends to use it.

The investigation is ongoing but at this stage police appear to have found nothing suspicious.
Anyone on BRF familiar with these programs?
X- Plane is the best flight simulator software that is out there. The Simulation Machines for Boeing and Airbus run customised version of this. This is also authorised software for training trainee pilots on software simulation on setup similar to that of captain Zaharie.
Many Pilot training Schools use this before allowing rookies to sit in the plane. Software also allows for tactile and force-feedback.

Flight Simulator is developed by Microsoft and latest version being Flight Simulator x. Now this product line is discontinued. Used to be great. There is online version of the software for which one has to download client software from Microsoft free of cost then pay for advance plane and scenery modules.

If he was running x-plane then he knew what he was doing.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Singha »

even if logs are deleted from the application, unless the disk is run through a data shredding tool, microsoft with its knowledge of logfile format and a data forensics outfit should be able to locate the distinct formats usually at start and end of files on the raw Hdd dump and maybe reconstruct these files and run them again to see where those missions were flown. singapore with its large financial sector must be the nearest place where such data recovery and forensics help could be available.

ofcourse the NSA woud be glad to take a look too :oops:
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by chaanakya »

ramana wrote:Jayram, The telegraph article linked above has a picture

Image

It looks like three screens to give panoramic view.
The article says three simulator programs were available.


Until we get more info I think the pilot angle is red herring.
Third one would be probably Flightgear. No wonder he was using top of the line GPUs and RAMs
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ramana »

So that software requires top end hardware?

Also if X-plane is a training tool for airlines whats unusual when a top pilot has the setup in his home? maybe he is dedicated pilot and likes to practise in his off hours.


I think the three softwares are already listed as FS version X & 9 and X-Plane.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by chetak »

Singha wrote:even if logs are deleted from the application, unless the disk is run through a data shredding tool, microsoft with its knowledge of logfile format and a data forensics outfit should be able to locate the distinct formats usually at start and end of files on the raw Hdd dump and maybe reconstruct these files and run them again to see where those missions were flown. singapore with its large financial sector must be the nearest place where such data recovery and forensics help could be available.

ofcourse the NSA woud be glad to take a look too :oops:
The malays themselves are no slouches when it comes to stuff like that. There is some pretty esoteric talent and skill out there.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by krishnan »

dunno, but i find it strange for some who has 30 years of flying exp , could be his time pass.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ramana »

^^^ Won't be surprising to find such speaclised gear with an avid, dedicated person in any field.
Its like a surgeon having scapels at home. There is persisitent effort by Malays to pin it on the pilot (scape goat) and close the affair.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by krishnan »

everything is pointing fingers to them, they are not saying anything clearly , but rebutting any claims by others , now the deleted log files , i even dunno how useful they are
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by chaanakya »

ramana wrote:So that software requires top end hardware?

Also if X-plane is a training tool for airlines whats unusual when a top pilot has the setup in his home? maybe he is dedicated pilot and likes to practise in his off hours.


I think the three softwares are already listed as FS version X & 9 and X-Plane.
Yes , X-Plane does require top end resources and is most realistic sort of experience . And nothing wrong in having that at home provided one has money and likes to fly plane. Almost all airports are covered. So one can practice landing, navigating between different waypoints. But for a pilot logging 18000 hours that is hardly required. And remember he is flying 777-200 almost on daily basis for 8 hrs a day. After that if he needs honing his skills I would say that would be for very special purpose, like upgrading to Airbus 380 or some different type of Aircraft or on different Airports.

FS9 ( actually FS 2004) and FSX is different versions of Microsoft Flight Simulator.May be he had both. X-Plane is different one and is the ultimate one.
http://www.x-plane.com/desktop/home/
Desktop version isn't costly by itself. It needs high end resources.

Simulator using x-plane
http://www.x-plane.com/pro/custom-fligh ... ional-use/
Image
Last edited by chaanakya on 19 Mar 2014 21:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ramana »

One thing is so far no jihadi link to the pilots. So its a Malay issue if at all.
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by Rajiv Lather »

ramana wrote:^^^ Won't be surprising to find such speaclised gear with an avid, dedicated person in any field.
Its like a surgeon having scapels at home. There is persisitent effort by Malays to pin it on the pilot (scape goat) and close the affair.
Let us look at it from the opposite end - if some pilot was planning a fairly complicated caper involving the plane he flies; how would he perfect it and then practice regularly ? Altitudes, fuel required, directions, location of various ATCs, radars, time factor, range, weather, wind conditions, peculiarities of runways etc etc. I could go on an on...
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by shiv »

LokeshC wrote:I have a 3 monitor workstation and a 32 inch tv and I play tank SIM and war SIM sometimes..... should I be worried?

Oh and as last week's pc clean up I deleted logs, cache, cookies etc.
All right. Fess up. Where is flight 370?
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Re: Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Post by ramana »

Rajiv,
Please go on. I want the jihadi link if at all to be found.

When I started this thread that was my topmost concern that MH-370 was hijacked and headed towards either Vizag or Chennai facilities.

Now my concern is someone can repeat this as MAS is very lax and has many loopholes.

The topmost being a non-learning closed mindset ruling elite which allows loopholes that can be exploited. Add to that the old AQK networks and smugglers networks.

To me missing MH-370 shows Malaysia is an area of concern for India.
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