IB Points to NGO Role in Waging War on India

amit · Post by **amit** » 16 Jun 2014 13:14

When green warriors battle GDP crusaders

Yet, consider a country as different from India as you could imagine in which an eerily similar debate has been playing out for the past several years.

As reported in 2012, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) - Canada's spy agency - expressed concern that "multi-issue extremists" and other activist groups posed a threat to "critical infrastructure" and could damage the Canadian national interest.
Greenpeace was one of the NGOs specifically named by CSIS. Around the same time, Joe Oliver, then environment and current finance minister of Canada, speaking of foreign-funded NGOs, put matters even more starkly, warning of the danger that such groups could "hijack our regulatory system to achieve their radical ideological agenda". Specifically, Oliver was concerned about the anti-jobs and anti-growth implications of the agenda of these NGOs and their foreign donors. The Conservative government, and Oliver in particular, was expressing its ire against foreign-funded NGOs trying to halt the development of Canada's "tar sands", which bear rich deposits of oil that however are dirtier than conventional sources.

According to Canadian researcher, Vivian Krause, up to $300 million have been pumped since 2000 into Canadian NGOs by major US foundations such as Ford, Rockefeller, Hewlett, Packard, and Gates among others - some of whom are also major donors in India.

The legitimate concern is that with their deep pockets, these large US based foundations - who can muster resources that dwarf those of any Canadian donor - can have a disproportionate impact on the state of the debate in Canada. In particular, the danger is of skewing the discourse in favour of the agenda of US-based environmental activists who themselves would not bear the brunt of any possible economic damage caused to Canada by pursuing an excessively stringent environmental policy.

In recent years, an average per year of a massive Rs 10,000 crore or approximately $2 billion has flowed into Indian NGOs, according to data declared under India's Foreign Contributions Registration Act (FCRA). And this is probably an underestimate given that shockingly 40 per cent of the NGOs don't fulfil their compliance requirement under Indian law.

In their response to the IB's allegations, Greenpeace India claims that the NGO "stands for people-powered sustainable development". Further, in all of Greenpeace India's interactions with the media, they repeat like a mantra that they receive no money from "government or from corporates" but rely principally on donations from individuals in India.

These statements, while true in a legalistic sense, are incomplete at best. According to Greenpeace India's data disclosed by law under the FCRA, about Rs 10 crore was received from foreign institutional donors in fiscal year 2012-13.

In 2011-12, the latest year for which we have data, Greenpeace India's annual report discloses an operating budget of about Rs 24.7 crore.

Assuming their budget in 2012-13 was similar in size, that means that a whopping 40 per cent or so of the money they spent comes from foreign donors. Thus, Greenpeace India's "people-powered" agenda is driven in no small measure by foreign dollars.

Greenpeace India's biggest foreign donor is Greenpeace International, the Netherlands, which gave just under Rs 9 crore. The next biggest foreign donor is Climate Works Foundation, the US, which in the same fiscal year gave about a little more than a crore (all other donors gave very small amounts).

Climate Works, in turn, receives its funding from three American foundations, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, David and Lucile Packard Foundation and the McKnight Foundation. These are the private charities set up thanks to the fortunes of the two families behind the Hewlett-Packard corporation and the 3M corporation respectively.

It's more than a little ironic that Greenpeace India has a signature campaign against coal mining in forested areas while at the same time they're indirectly living, in part, off the proceeds of 3M, whose mining operations in the United States have also come under environmental scrutiny.

More pertinent is to note that, far from being a conspiracy theory, it's self-evident to common sense that a large foreign donor pouring its own hard-earned resources into an Indian NGO is doing so to further its own agenda, not an Indian agenda, even if those agendas may overlap at some points.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 16 Jun 2014 13:39

amit,
Having worked with Greenpeace enthusiasts and volunteers I can say that majority of them are very well meaning "Mother Earth" devotees that genuinely care for environment. The best way to handle them will be to use their passion in constructive ways. Make them empowered partners in green initiatives that need people participation such as Ganga river cleaning and efforts to improve ground water level by de-silting lakes and ponds and towards projects aimed at increasing green cover.

Are you aware of NGOs that do great work in the area such as "Ugly Indian" (look it up on facebook). They are predominantly Indian but do use foreign help from time to time. They partner with government in a very constructive way. We should encourage well meaning NGOs towards constructive projects rather than making them to be a monster and in that process pushing them towards even more in a non-constructive path.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 16 Jun 2014 14:21

Why NGOs need to be brought down from their high pedestal

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 16 Jun 2014 14:22

Green Peace marches to the tunes of the bugles sounded from distant lands. That is for sure. Yes, because of its image and market promotion and PR in mass media, it attracts people who want to get into an action mode for "saving" the environment. There are a lot of passionate youngsters who get carried away by the hype and publicity and want to associate with these recognized and renowned organizations.

The vast majority of these cattle class volunteers have no clue. Some of them have an idea of what real agenda is getting served and they are well taken care of and they are made part of the gravy train. There is a screening process to find who can be coopted and who cannot. Those very ideologically minded are used for activism and their integrity and sincerity is used to build up the profile. If these lot ever find out and they are not manageable they get thrown out.

If you look at the recent blitz by this organization in the social media, especially FB, they are focussing very much on India. The masters who control the agenda do not want India to become less dependent on others for energy requirements. They also want to gain control on what India does and increase the cost of development or reduce the usage of certain resources as this will directly impact the resource availability to their own societies.

This is a very complicated war, fought at several levels. Hence we have to a dictum that assumes guilty of being anti India for all such organizations. Intrusive provisions on how they raise money, how it is spent and reporting on their activities must be there. They all have to be infiltrated and monitored as well. That is the only way they can be contained, roll backed and finally eliminated.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 16 Jun 2014 14:26

schinnas wrote:amit,
Having worked with Greenpeace enthusiasts and volunteers I can say that majority of them are very well meaning "Mother Earth" devotees that genuinely care for environment. The best way to handle them will be to use their passion in constructive ways. Make them empowered partners in green initiatives that need people participation such as Ganga river cleaning and efforts to improve ground water level by de-silting lakes and ponds and towards projects aimed at increasing green cover

The agenda of NGOs like Green Peace is set by pay masters sitting abroad -- the idea is to stop infrastructure development and industrialization in India. Otherwise, they are not fools to pump billions of dollars in NGOs in India with no benefit to them. No NGO will ever be allowed to do constructive work that benefits India socially or economically. Also, let's stop pretending that NGOs are representatives of people and involving them in Govt. projects is equal to "involving people." These NGOs are run by freeloading busy bodies with an eye on Gora funds. They are best kept at an arm's length. They are nothing but foreign agents.

amit · Post by **amit** » 16 Jun 2014 15:04

schinnas wrote:amit,
Having worked with Greenpeace enthusiasts and volunteers I can say that majority of them are very well meaning "Mother Earth" devotees that genuinely care for environment. The best way to handle them will be to use their passion in constructive ways. Make them empowered partners in green initiatives that need people participation such as Ganga river cleaning and efforts to improve ground water level by de-silting lakes and ponds and towards projects aimed at increasing green cover.

I'm sure you've read Pied Piper of Hamelin. Need I say more?

And I'm sorry you've not thought this out properly. You say the "best way to handle them..." Who is going to do the handling?

You see the problem is simple. The contours of the "green initiatives" that so enamour these "well meaning" Greenpeace activists have been set by folks whose agenda is different from what is good for India.

Let me give you an example. If you watch the Arnab show that's been linked a few pages back the Greenpeace spokesperson (or was it someone else but choro that's not important) said that India has to do its part to save the global environment.

I suspect you also think the same way. But can you tell me who created the environmental situation that the Earth faces now? If you do some analysis and estimates from the time of the Industrial Revolution to today, Europe is by far the most heinous contributor to pollution than any other nation/geography in the world.

Now here's the funny part. They created the problem and now they want somebody else to sacrifice and help clean up or at least minimise the damage. WTF?

If you look at every single developed economy, they went through a period of sustained growth in which they had all manner of polluting industries. It's only after they reached a level of development that they paused and started cleaning up.

You don't need to look at Europe, just look at South Korea. Today Seoul is a nice clean and chic city. But in the 1980s it was polluted as hell. It's only after reaching such a level that they paused to clean up the mess.

And what about China? What are Greenpeace and "well meaning 'Mother Earth' devotees that genuinely care for environment" going to be able to do about the pollution being emitted by China? Do you know that China is building 3 new power stations every week? Who's going prevent that? Is Greenpeace and "Mother Earth" devotees in India going to start a "candle light" vigil on the Himalayas to prevent the pollution from drifting in?

Greenpeace is against Nuclear energy, against coal-fired thermal plants and against hydel. Since you know some of these "well meaning 'Mother Earth' types" can you ask them how they plan to generate low cost power with a high base load factor? By praying to the Sun God?

You know what, Germans are trying out 'clean coal' technologies for power generation. This is state of the art tech which the Germans and the Japanese are researching on. If Greenpeace genuinely wanted to clean up India's environment they would have agitated to make sure that this tech was available to every developing nation at a nominal price? Do see any of that happening?

Sorry you're "well meaning 'Mother Earth' devotees" and their admirers are nothing but a bunch of idiots who think it's fashionable to be associated with a "cause" without thinking through the consequences.

Are you aware of NGOs that do great work...

Oh yes I'm very aware, more than you think. I also know of some Western NGOs who do excellent work as well. In fact I have a gora friend who runs an NGO with his own money which just specialise in building women's toilets in rural schools because he realised that lack of toilets are the single biggest reason for girls dropping out of school.

But the point is even though I haven't read the IB report, as far as I can glean, it has never said all NGOs are bad - this is an insertion that Barkha Dutt types are making - it said a few are very bad. IMO, the entire purpose of the report and leak is to let everybody know that they are under notice.

For starters I would like to follow up on what happens to the Greenpeace initiative for monitoring e-waste from India's ITES sector. Why do I get a feeling that this "initiative" is going to see a quite burial?

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 16 Jun 2014 15:31

X-post from Indo-US thread:

Earlier this year, in January, Iran came out with its human rights report on the US in 2013.

Full Farsi text here

Full English version available here (PDF)

Given the abused of subversive NGO's heavily funded by the US - some of which have been actively spreading propaganda about "slavery" in India among other things, it would be interesting if India joins up with several developing nations such as BRICS, etc. to come out with human rights reports on certain countries including the US.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 16 Jun 2014 16:31

Agnimitra wrote:Given the abused of subversive NGO's heavily funded by the US - some of which have been actively spreading propaganda about "slavery" in India among other things, it would be interesting if India joins up with several developing nations such as BRICS, etc. to come out with human rights reports on certain countries including the US.

When Goras start about slavery in India, I immediately begin ranting about the biggest organized slavery and apartheid operation in the world: Native Americans forced to live in fenced reservations and not allowed to buy a house anywhere else or mix with the general White population. Goras turn tail very quickly.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 16 Jun 2014 17:00

@Amit ^^^: "Let me give you an example. If you watch the Arnab show that's been linked a few pages back the Greenpeace spokesperson (or was it someone else but choro that's not important) said that India has to do its part to save the global environment."

Yes. This reminded me of the hue and cry when the Nano (car) was announced. The Green NYT wailed that this was going to worsen climate change (in those days known as global warming), followed by criticism that if everyone had an air conditioner/fridge in India spitting out CFCs, the ozone layer would be depleted and finally that if India and China had the same level of per capita consumption as the west, we'd need another planet Earth.

Meanwhile, a single milsat launch pours tons of CFCs in the atmosphere. I forget the source but just the other day I read that there are new thermal power plants representing 25,000 mw lying idle because they do not have coal. Why? apparently, the Jayanti tax factor and/or NGO led protests financed from abroad.

Whether intentional or not, conspiracy or no, the fact is the end result is lack of growth which means no jobs and no future.

The NGOs need to be evaluated strictly: are they professional obstructionists like Praful Bidwai, Medha what's her name etc or people like the guy who spends his own money building toilets?

Arihant · Post by **Arihant** » 16 Jun 2014 17:14

SanjayC wrote:Why NGOs need to be brought down from their high pedestal

The general tenor of this discussion (and a lot of what has appeared on this thread) is that we have to make a call on which of these competing agendas (e.g., a pro-development agenda versus a green agenda) leads to the greatest good for the most. This is essentially a contest between competing optimization objectives. The only way such contests are settled is by all parties agreeing to an economic (simulation) model, and then playing out various scenarios over various horizons to determine how desirable the end-game states are. Not an easy thing to do. Not an easy thing for all parties to agree on. Essentially impractical.

The alternative is for an adjudicator (in this case the government, which is the only party to this debate that can actually claim to represent the will of the people) to decide on a preference ordering for the objectives. For example: We will seek to maximize power generation, and given that, try to minimize environmental impact where possible.

The "lets debate what is best for the most" idea is a non-starter.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 16 Jun 2014 17:27

@Arihant ^^^: "The alternative is for an adjudicator (in this case the government, which is the only party to this debate that can actually claim to represent the will of the people)."

Yes and the NGOs factor into the debate by muddying that representation. Some of them try to shape an internal Indian debate to conform to the will of the people living in other countries. For example, Obama & co. are going to do full court press on India re Coal not because of any love for Indians (pollution) but because it fits into his/their global climate change narrative.

Arihant · Post by **Arihant** » 16 Jun 2014 17:53

Cosmo_R wrote:@Arihant ^^^: "The alternative is for an adjudicator (in this case the government, which is the only party to this debate that can actually claim to represent the will of the people)."

Yes and the NGOs factor into the debate by muddying that representation. Some of them try to shape an internal Indian debate to conform to the will of the people living in other countries. For example, Obama & co. are going to do full court press on India re Coal not because of any love for Indians (pollution) but because it fits into his/their global climate change narrative.

@Cosmo_R ^^^: Agreed - which is to say, the NGOs can make representations, but the government decides.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2014 21:50

Amit, Raja Ram and Cosmo_R, the patorn saint on the environment movement is Rachel Carson and her book "Silent Spring" is the bible. At the core it was to raise awareness about industrial pollution in the West. However it turned into a weapon against development of the 'others'.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2014 22:15

It seems Greenpeace in India lost Rs. 30 Million in forex trading. Is that known to its patrons?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Jun 2014 23:59

The only solution I see is for the west to CRE their conspicuous consuming ways - Chinese would not have much reason to build n power plants every x. But then would we get $75 jeans for $25? Would we get very two year throw away iPhones and androids? Do we get integrated manufacturing group technology economies of scale with the easy maintenance of gee-gaws replaced subsystem by sub system rather than part by part? On the plys side Starbucks will disappear, urban sprawls with gigantic parking lot walmarts will be extinct. ADHD will reduce.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Jun 2014 09:19

Aruna Roy to Modi: When governments don’t listen, unrest follows

Reading the interview, it seems that Aruna Roy just threatened the government.

amit · Post by **amit** » 17 Jun 2014 09:56

ramana wrote:Amit, Raja Ram and Cosmo_R, the patorn saint on the environment movement is Rachel Carson and her book "Silent Spring" is the bible. At the core it was to raise awareness about industrial pollution in the West. However it turned into a weapon against development of the 'others'.

+100

Ramana,

I'm sure you know that Patrick Moore, the Greenpeace founder, left the organisation in disgust after it was hijacked.

Here's a must read article by him: Why I Left Greenpeace

People who pontificate about "Mother Earth" types of do-gooders should read the article and internalise the message IMO.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 17 Jun 2014 10:18

Pratyush wrote:Aruna Roy to Modi: When governments don’t listen, unrest follows

Reading the interview, it seems that Aruna Roy just threatened the government.

What impact is this report likely to have on civil society movements in India?

Civic engagement is now accepted as one of the cornerstones of democratic governance. The quality of civic engagement is dependent on the access to civic space for movements. Citizens have to work as collectives to get their voices heard. By casting aspersions on campaigns, this report is clearly trying to create an atmosphere of apprehension and fear in all civil society groups. It is quite likely that this report will be followed up by a kind of a witch-hunt against dissenting organisations so that all of civil society is forewarned.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/india/aruna-ro ... dium=story

Since when did civic engagement become "cornerstones" of democratic governance?
There is the ruling party & opposition and both are legitimized through elections and votes. Civic engagement , especially the one Aruna Roy advocates, does not have the mandate of the people and does not have a constituional sanction even.
Bestowing legitimicay on itself and then claiming that the govt is persecuting is typical of this lot.

Aruna Roy should take part in elections & use the existing platforms in parliament to voice her concerns.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Jun 2014 10:48

Neela wrote:
Pratyush wrote:Aruna Roy to Modi: When governments don’t listen, unrest follows

Reading the interview, it seems that Aruna Roy just threatened the government.

What impact is this report likely to have on civil society movements in India?

Civic engagement is now accepted as one of the cornerstones of democratic governance. The quality of civic engagement is dependent on the access to civic space for movements. Citizens have to work as collectives to get their voices heard. By casting aspersions on campaigns, this report is clearly trying to create an atmosphere of apprehension and fear in all civil society groups. It is quite likely that this report will be followed up by a kind of a witch-hunt against dissenting organisations so that all of civil society is forewarned.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/india/aruna-ro ... dium=story
Since when did civic engagement become "cornerstones" of democratic governance?
There is the ruling party & opposition and both are legitimized through elections and votes. Civic engagement , especially the one Aruna Roy advocates, does not have the mandate of the people and does not have a constituional sanction even.
Bestowing legitimicay on itself and then claiming that the govt is persecuting is typical of this lot.

Aruna Roy should take part in elections & use the existing platforms in parliament to voice her concerns.

This is part of the entitlement culture pushed by the overground naxalites.

If an un elected and un electable aruna roy and her despicable NAC gang of rouge rogues can wield that much of power in the kitchen cabinet of the soul harvesting termite queen and still have deeply embedded commie and naxalite presswallas pushing her POV, then pest control measures are long over due.

Would any other country in the whole wide world have even allowed a draft of the notorious and evilly motivated " communal violence bill"??

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Jun 2014 11:10

Pratyush wrote:Aruna Roy to Modi: When governments don’t listen, unrest follows

Well she should know, that precisely why her govt of carpetbaggers is chucked out, and Modi Sarkar brought in. However she does not seem to realize that she is advising the wrong person. She should advise her party and her friends who caused 10 years of loss to India.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 17 Jun 2014 14:09

ramana wrote:It seems Greenpeace in India lost Rs. 30 Million in forex trading. Is that known to its patrons?

Ramana, should Greenpeace even be considered a charity? The underlying structure, Greenpeace Intl, is based in the Netherlands to take advantage of the EU tax laws and charitable status as well as the support of many Western multinationals and agencies. In this particular instance it seems they were in the process of channeling funds to their 'activities' in Senegal and Russia when the currency vanished.
In the case of India, the license Raj has been the bane of legitimate businesses. What irony it would be for FFO (foreign funded organisations), and individuals who are associated with them to feel the warmth of a tax audit.
Japan for many years has deterred Greenpeace and others by subjecting them to a METI audit, not something to be trifled with.
India's lax immigration laws where tourist visas are abused bu the likes of Headley is one route that can be closed immediately. In the aftermath of the Mumbai massacre, when the government were compelled to look at the tourist visa loophole, pressure was brought upon the UPA by certain western governments and NGO/FFO groups.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 17 Jun 2014 15:13

Ask these same NGO volunteers (and I have met and had tea and biscuits with several of them) to practice the rustic lifestyle of the Kondh for a few days. Well, its easier to get an alcoholic to blow up a distillery.

Long ago, Madam Suzanne Arundhati Roy was jailed......3 months or pay up. She took the noble road & boldly went into Tihar.
Maybe it was sweaty, smelly ambiance or the lack of cameras or the bitter tea or the watery dal & rice in Tihar - in less than 24 hours , she paid the fine and went home.
On coming out, she said "she had made her point" & stood by what she said ( questioning the courts motives in her affidavit in a contempt-of-court case!!!! ). She is indeed brave & very different.

Chandrasekhar · Post by **Chandrasekhar** » 17 Jun 2014 15:46

Aamir Khan launches India's first One Stop Crisis Centre in Bhopal

One Stop Crisis Centre, which is a collaboration of many organizations, will be opened in every district of Madhya Pradesh.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 17 Jun 2014 20:00

Chandrasekhar wrote:Aamir Khan launches India's first One Stop Crisis Centre in Bhopal

One Stop Crisis Centre, which is a collaboration of many organizations, will be opened in every district of Madhya Pradesh.

Governing India means:

1. Come up with long term solutions which includes robust policy, training, education and implementation which will take long time.
2. Short term solutions which will provide a framework for quick help or relief of the situation or exorbitant penalties to avoid the behavior.
3. Some gimmicks to make people believe that Govt. is doing that.

All 3 steps are necessary and essential because most people only look in short term and they don't care for long term solutions.

If the Govt. does not act, initiatives like this will come and will be actually leveraged to destroy Modi's Govt. This is just a beginning

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Jun 2014 00:23

Anand K wrote:Check out the comment of a Sumanth C in the R Jagannathan article in First Post. Some interesting tidbits on the Vedanta case.
Quoting here in full (it's kosher right?)ear Mr. Jagannathan
I believe you are very charitable when you speak of bringing just them to account. Lynching is not lawfully permissible in India today; However, for the economic loss these NGOs have caused India and the way they have kept us mired to 1994 thereabouts, I wouldn't mind having a go. Assuredly, this is not a knee jerk reaction from me.

Only Barbarians and Islamists do the lynching. Sophisticated, evolved and most humane way is that of Guillotine in town circles or road junctions. Good news is that enemies have been pointed and painted out now. Lets hope these stupids are smart enough to not to spark the beginning of their own demise. Every poor family ought to know about these guilty people who has been instrumental in keeping their children's future bleak for long.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 18 Jun 2014 04:25

^ +1. Interesting solution to the situation RDji; might just be what is needed for a nation with so many young faces - they have ideals, have hope, need useful purpose. However, one feels that there is only a small window of opportunity to take such steps, once the frustration reaches critical mass, you can have major problems and very few options. May Namo do for India what FDR did for the US in your story.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 18 Jun 2014 04:46

RSS is somewhat based on the same idea, but then it has been de-legitimized by crying "kommooooonaalllll". The lefty libtards and the NGO vultures knew exactly what they were doing when they demonized RSS.

They had to discredit anything that does not have a handle abroad. RSS (or anything genuinely Hindu) fit the bill and they had to do what they can to prevent RSS from eating into their "market share".

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 18 Jun 2014 07:18

Rudradev wrote: (2) inculcate through their activities a sense of mission, dignity and responsibility that serves aspiration rather than victimhood;

This is very important. NGOs that indulge in constructive activities - planting trees, saving turtles, helping women with micro-finance, etc., should be encouraged regardless of funding source. Some of the micro-finance schemes are designed to make some profit and be self sustainable. So making profit is not all that bad.

Those that impact negativity / encourage victimhood, indulge in disruptive practices such as protests or social engineering by means of induced conversions should be treated with a heavy hand.

In general, it is not an intelligent approach to paint everyone involved in associations such as Greenpeace with a broad brush. Most educated youth of premier institutions in India are either involved in such NGOs or have a soft corner for them. A better approach would be to provide substantial opportunities for these youth and NGOs to involve in positive and constructive Seva.

Your example of CCC can be implemented in India. However, blindly copying it is bound to fail... just as NSS program has been a failure. Given that we don't have people desperate to work for food now, for such a program to be successful, we should leverage all the numerous Indians who are motivated and want to do good in some way. Instead of letting them be manipulated by foreign masters without their knowledge, if strong overtures are made to involve them in truely impactful initiatives - such as promotion of eco tourism in Uttarkand and Kerala or cleaning of rivers and rejuvenation of lakes and ponds, we can go a long way.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Jun 2014 08:01

should be encouraged regardless of funding source of if they actually do make some profit.

The Mafia would greatly appreciate that kind sentiment..

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 18 Jun 2014 08:40

UlanBatori wrote:
should be encouraged regardless of funding source of if they actually do make some profit.
The Mafia would greatly appreciate that kind sentiment..

Edited it. My concern is this: We have a very large number of motivated Indian youth who are working with these NGOs. They may be manipulated by scheming "masters" without the volunteer army suspecting their true intentions. Many of these volunteers are genuinely proud that they are doing real Seva. So if we suddenly demonize all NGOs they will only disbelieve the government stand and even worse some of them might turn willingly anti-government. On the other hand, if we give them better and more rewarding constructive projects to work with,

The key activists who make money and fame may not participate and will continue to indulge in disruptive activities anyways. However, if we can wean away even 50% of the misguided volunteers and turn them towards constructive activities it goes a long long way. These motivated volunteers can do lot more than what un-motivated and un-energetic government babus can do. I am not saying we should not take the stick. However first let us extend carrots and many of them. Give it some time to get traction. Then quietly carry a big stick along with carrots.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jun 2014 09:06

schinnas wrote: {quote="UlanBatori"}
should be encouraged regardless of funding source of if they actually do make some profit.

The Mafia would greatly appreciate that kind sentiment.. {/quote}

Edited it. My concern is this: We have a very large number of motivated Indian youth who are working with these NGOs. They may be manipulated by scheming "masters" without the volunteer army suspecting their true intentions. Many of these volunteers are genuinely proud that they are doing real Seva. So if we suddenly demonize all NGOs they will only disbelieve the government stand and even worse some of them might turn willingly anti-government. On the other hand, if we give them better and more rewarding constructive projects to work with,

The key activists who make money and fame may not participate and will continue to indulge in disruptive activities anyways. However, if we can wean away even 50% of the misguided volunteers and turn them towards constructive activities it goes a long long way. These motivated volunteers can do lot more than what un-motivated and un-energetic government babus can do. I am not saying we should not take the stick. However first let us extend carrots and many of them. Give it some time to get traction. Then quietly carry a big stick along with carrots.

most of the street level troops are the daily hire - Rs 500/=, packet of biriyani for lunch variety.

I recently encountered such low level members of greenpeace at a prominent chennai IT park pushing their wares.

I asked twice to confirm that they were indeed talking about the "international" greenpeace

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 18 Jun 2014 09:19

chetak wrote: most of the street level troops are the daily hire - Rs 500/=, packet of biriyani for lunch variety.

I recently encountered such low level members of greenpeace at a prominent chennai IT park pushing their wares.

I asked twice to confirm that they were indeed talking about the "international" greenpeace

That is not what I heard / observed. In campuses like IISc, IIT and among section of the elite environmental Seva is king, and GreenPeace has the most reputation and gets enough student and IT volunteers. I too heard about their activity in Chennai than in Bangalore. One of my friends encountered them in Chennai train and even made a donation as he found the Greenpeace volunteer to be committed and passionate. Are you sure they hire volunteers? or you just ran into some dumbo and are generalizing it as if it is a fact.

Making strong statements without factual basis such as "Vaiko is a christian" or "Greenpeace hires its volunteers for biriyani" may help get attention but doesn't help the discussion in any way.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Jun 2014 09:31

Some of them are confused and those not confused are in it for burnishing their resume. Now get off my lawn

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jun 2014 09:33

schinnas wrote:
chetak wrote: most of the street level troops are the daily hire - Rs 500/=, packet of biriyani for lunch variety.

I recently encountered such low level members of greenpeace at a prominent chennai IT park pushing their wares.

I asked twice to confirm that they were indeed talking about the "international" greenpeace
That is not what I heard / observed. In campuses like IISc, IIT and among section of the elite environmental Seva is king, and GreenPeace has the most reputation and gets enough student and IT volunteers. I too heard about their activity in Chennai than in Bangalore. One of my friends encountered them in Chennai train and even made a donation as he found the Greenpeace volunteer to be committed and passionate. Are you sure they hire volunteers? or you just ran into some dumbo and are generalizing it as if it is a fact.

Making strong statements without factual basis such as "Vaiko is a christian" or "Greenpeace hires its volunteers for biriyani" may help get attention but doesn't help the discussion in any way.

Sirjee, these guys were a gang of four-six very low level guys. I encountered them three times a day for three days Once when I clocked in in the morning, lunchtime and when I was leaving. They were along with many others who were selling sim cards, credit cards and other sundry services normally peddled to disposable income IT low level employees.

They were casually dressed (badly and indistinguishable) and appeared to be of the same malnourished stock as the rest of the daily wage gang.

Maybe at IIT's etc they use better qualified staff to pull in higher IQ idiots.

I forgot to add the first time, they carried no greenpeace identification of any kind. I asked.

Next time I will photograph, finger print them and get their CVs to satisfy you.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 18 Jun 2014 09:36

Rudradev and others...

Please post your views on the questions and points raised by me above in the below thread - which is specificially related to a possible action plan...

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... =24&t=6814

I will move above posts there ...

Added later: Oh shite, it seems moving posts does not leave a copy here - my bad. But pls continue in the linked thread on subject of actions that may be taken... rest can continue here or even cross-post as required.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Jun 2014 06:36

Aiyyooooo! Thread seems to have been sent to Nukkad.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Jun 2014 17:44

No Batori, it is in GDF... Burkha thread... Pls to have a look. Good minds are needed for an action plan of sorts...

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Jun 2014 18:56

GreenPeace put on "Prior Category" list, IB recommends kicking them out

High time. Now for Action Aid aka Christian Aid (meddling with tribals in Gujarat among other places), Oberlin Foundation (PRC channel via TN conversionists), AID/AID-India (Conversion and DYFI/Marxist-Leninist-Maoist), ASHA (lot of seemingly nice projects, but anti-India agenda beneath, and too much contamination in top ranks).

Of course action against Teesta Setalwad/Aman/Sabrang/SINGH is waaay overdue.
Also, SIMI/IMC-USA
Also, Vaishnava Center for Enlightenment - any desis accepting their hospitality / invitations to US should be investigated.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Jun 2014 19:42

NATO Secretary General: Russia 'secretly working with environmentalists to oppose fracking'

Speaking at the Chatham House foreign affairs think-tank in London, Anders Fogh Rasmussen said Russia was mounting a sophisticated disinformation campaign aimed at undermining attempts to exploit alternative energy sources such as shale gas.

"I have met allies who can report that Russia, as part of their sophisticated information and disinformation operations, engaged actively with so-called non-governmental organisations - environmental organisations working against shale gas - to maintain European dependence on imported Russian gas. That is my interpretation," he said.

Mr Rasmussen's claim that Russia was working with environmental groups to discredit fracking drew an angry response from Greenpeace.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 Jun 2014 20:56

^^Nice datapoint there...