Internal Security Watch

[svenkat]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra_pradesh/TN-Woodcutters-Taking-High-Risk/2015/04/08/article2753387.ece

The Seshachalam forest, a biodiversity hub with rare flora and fauna including the precious red sander trees, witnessed bloodshed with the armed forces of the Anti Smuggling Task Force (RSASTF) killing 20 wood cutters in an encounter on Tuesday morning. While, the RSASTF officials maintain that they were forced open fire in self-defence, the opposition parties attribute the incident to a fake encounter masterminded by the government itself. But, the fact remains that woodcutters from Tamil Nadu are taking high risk for earning easy money.

After learning that a large number of woodcutters from Vellore, Tiruvannamalai, Tiruvallur and Selam districts of the neighbouring Tamil Nadu state coming into the Seshachalam for looting the forest wealth, the AP officials took up sensitisation programmes and explained them about the consequences if they found of involving in smuggling.

“We have visited the areas in some of the Tamil Nadu districts from where the infiltration of woodcutters is high and organised awareness programmes there. Apart from distributing pamphlets, we have also pasted stickers on the buses shuttling to various parts of Tamil Nadu asking the coolies not to engage in the red sanders smuggling activity,” Tirupati wildlife Divisional Forest Officer G Srinivas told Express.

On why the coolies were keeping their lives at risk, another forest official said that coolies were addicted to earning easy money.

Defending the encounter, he said that they had no other option when hundreds of woodcutters were raining stones and using weapons on a team of 15 armed persons.

[svenkat]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra_pradesh/Mother-of-All-Encounters/2015/04/08/article2753380.ece

Ever since the TDP came to power in AP, it has been concentrating on preventing smuggling of red sanders as it is a good sources of revenue for the State coffers.

This is more so becuase after bifurcaiton of the State, it had a deficit of Rs 15,000 crore and if red sanders are exported by the State itself it could earn good amount of money.

In the process, they have arrested thousands of woodcutters and invoked Preventive Detention (PD) Act against smugglers and also there were instances of killing some persons in some encounters. But Tuesday’s encounter is the mother of all, since the toll was 20, the highest by far.

As Seshachalam forest containing red sanders in about 5 lakh hectares area in Chittoor and Kadapa districts and parts of Kurnool and Nellore districts, it has been attracting smugglers for years and there were also incidents of some encounters in the recent past in which a few woodcutters and smugglers killing two forest staff in December 2013. However, killing of 20 woodcutters in two locations near to the temple town on a single day, proves the point that the government is very keen on curbing smuggling.

A special task force headed by a DSP rank officer was formed during the Congress party regime in Tirupati two years ago to tackle smuggling. However, after the TDP coming to power, it strengthened the task force by appointing a DIG rank officer as its operational controller.

From the beginning of assuming office, DIG M Kantha Rao came on asserting that they will not hesitate to take extreme decision of killing the smugglers in the forest itself if they resort to attacking the combing parties and the Tuesday’s encounter stood as a testimony to his version. “We went on warning the woodcutters to give up the illegal activity or to prepare for the worst. But, without caring for our orders, they, in turn, came to attack 15 Armed Forces personnel assuming that they can overpower them as they are in hundreds and got such punishment,” said a forest official on condition of anonymity.

The Seshachalam bio-reserve forest area extends over four forest divisions, viz, Chittoor (East) Wildlife Division, Wildlife Management Division, Tirupati in Chittoor district, Wildlife Division, Rajampet, and wildlife Division, Kadapa. The Seshachalam Biosphere Reserve, designated in 2011 is located in Seshachalam hill ranges of Eastern Ghats in Southern Andhra Pradesh

ABOUT RED SANDERS

Red sanders grow mainly on Seshachalam hill ranges spread across Kadapa, Chittoor and Kurnool in Rayalaseema region and parts of Nellore district. However, bulk of the red sander smuggling takes place in Chittoor and Kadapa districts

Shortage of supply and ever increasing demand in international market made the rare commodity a hot favourite for smugglers, as a high price of up to `10 crore per tonne in the Chinese market is attracting notorious criminals into this lucrative business. According to Andhra Pradesh State Biodiversity Board (APSBB), the cut pieces of red sanders, smuggled out from the forests regularly hoodwinking the forest staff,[b] is found to have been used for atomic energy projects instead and for making a ****-like drug[/b]

The interest shown by smugglers on this wood was such that nearly 2,000 SUVs were seized by the forest staff in the recent past while they were being used to transport it. Each person, mostly from bordering TN, is paid up to `500 per kg, for carrying illegally cut logs from Seshachalam forest to the nearest road

[svenkat]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil_nadu/Cops-Lethargy-let-Kingpins-Have-a-Free-Run-in-City/2015/04/08/article2753136.ece

CHENNAI: It is almost public knowledge that this metro is the most important transit point for red sanders mafia and not a week passes by without a single seizure of smuggled wood in the suburbs. Yet, Chennai continues to be a safe haven as city police do not seem keen on tracking kingpins and do not go beyond arresting drivers and last-rung workers.

When asked about the progress in the cases of recent seizures of the smuggled wood in the city, police officers said they had not made further arrests.

This, despite the fact that some of the kingpins of the smuggling racket work from Chennai. Some of the persons caught in the racket have influential links too.

For example, last October, the New Washermenpet police arrested Krishnamurthy alias ‘Burma’ Murthy (49), brother of the owner of a famous textile shop at Thiruvottriyur High Road, and nearly 1.5 tonne wood kept hidden by him in a parking lot was recovered. Similarly, one Selvaraj, arrested by Andhra Pradesh police last year, is elder brother of a prominent Congress worker in Royapuram. But, there was not much progress in the investigation in these cases by the Chennai city police.

[svenkat]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil_nadu/Fort-City-Transit-Point-for-Red-Sander-Smuggling-Network/2015/04/08/article2753139.ece

VELLORE: Once a sleepy town, Vellore has now earned the notoriety of being the key transit point for the multi-crore international red sander mafia network to smuggle out the precious logs.

Recent confiscation of vehicles with loads of high quality red sander trunks in the district has proved this beyond doubt. Indeed, smugglers are smart enough than law enforcing agencies in ferrying red sander consignments through Vellore from the fauna and flora rich Seshachalam Reserve Forest range in Andhra Pradesh to Red Hills, on the outskirts of Chennai, and Bengaluru in Karnataka. From there, the logs are smuggled out of the country through air or sea to Japan, China, Myanmar and other East Asian countries. The market for this wood involves crores of rupees.

Vellore district shares its border with Chittoor for over 150 km from Pernambut to Sholinghur. There are seven interconnecting roads along the stretch and hundreds of village roads passing through the border areas. “Smugglers usually make their entry in Pernambut area and prefer the interior roads along the Vellore-Chittoor border. Rarely they use the National Highways or State Highways,” said a police official.

[chaanakya]

Anyone remembers five Bihari yadavs , who were killed ny TN Police in their flats in Chennai in the wee hours, suspected of ATM robbery for which maximum punishment could be less than 10 years.

It was not an ATM robbery, if I remember it right. They had looted a branch of Muthoot Gold - a non-banking financial institution; or actually a pawn broker. Here again the police had quite accurately zeroed in on the culprits and shot them dead. As far as I remember the police explanation was that they had inputs that the Yadav gangs would be armed.

Just to refresh. Not that I condone or condemn it if it was a genuine encounter. The police "always" have information about possession of arms and sometime use of force is justified. but when clubbed with widely prevalent prejudice against NI in SI it would be suspect.
In the light of day, questions about midnight encounter

The officer who gave press conference , I know him personally.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 975763.ece

Last weekend, a dishevelled, bare-chested man was almost done to death in Chennai. Police and scores of bystanders watched the young man being beaten unconscious. A few even cheered and egged on the mob

The ‘north Indian'

Two applications filed in the Madras High Court by six advocates and residents of Velachery, the neighbourhood where the ‘encounter' took place, describes these ‘north Indians' as “the workers who had landed in Tamil Nadu for working, slowly steadied their roots here and later started indulging in many crimes, many of which are dastardly and grave ones”. They further state that “offences committed by (the) north Indians in Tamil Nadu are on the rise” and that in this particular instance “group of north Indians were on a rampage....disturbing the peace and tranquillity of the state”. The applications have been filed to counter the ongoing public interest litigation in the Madras High Court challenging the recent killings.

Now these Tamil Vanniyar workers visited the place which is hotspot of Sandalwood/red sanders smuggling. There have been many instances where forest officials have been killed by such group of workers. The famous brigand Veerappan belonged to this Tamil community and had carried out about 184 murders including IFS and IPS officers. So the police could have reasonable apprehension. However, excessive force is not warranted by the police. On the face of it I think they might have used force not required . The impact of this would be that such workers might refrain from visiting AP and rate for illegal felling of trees would just go up making the enterprise risky and unviable for woodcutters.
However police should go after the real culprits rather than going for such "staged" encounters and stoke the charge of regional and communal biases. Encounters , in most of the cases represent failure of proper policing.

[schinnas]

The two encounters in Telengana and AP tell two different story. One sends a strong message by eliminating identified cop-killer terrorist and his associates. While legally cannot be justified if the police story doesnt hold true, there is no denying that it sends a clear message to arrogant, unapologetic terrorists and cop killers. Kudos to Telangana police on encountering verified SIMI terrorists.

On the other hand, the AP encounter is such a farce that it will put all Police under all Indian states at risk from carrying out any encounters in the future because of the negative publicity. Instead of taking well planned action against perpetrators of the crime - the bosses and actual attackers of forest officials, the trigger happy AP police has acted like a good squad and killed 20 odd laborers (many of them in execution style) without any proven link to violence. Only CBN can hallucinate that it would send any message to anybody. The real smuggling syndicate will be laughing at the incompetence of AP task force and bait their time for a few months and import more skilled (at evading police) laborers from Bangladesh and West Bengal and go about their job.

AP police should take a lesson, and follow what Telangana, Gujarat, TN and Maharastra cops do - encounter verified culprits for their extra legal act to be worth it.

[Altair]

AP police should take a lesson, and follow what Telangana, Gujarat, TN and Maharastra cops do - encounter verified culprits for their extra legal act to be worth it.

Encounters are like Abortions and are dirty business. Can be done by anyone.However, It requires skill to not leave a mark.
MH and Telangana cops are experts. Second to none in that aspect. I heard even Orissa cops are good but may be just rumors.

[schinnas]

AP police should take a lesson, and follow what Telangana, Gujarat, TN and Maharastra cops do - encounter verified culprits for their extra legal act to be worth it.

Encounters are like Abortions and are dirty business. Can be done by anyone.However, It requires skill to not leave a mark.
MH and Telangana cops are experts. Second to none in that aspect. I heard even Orissa cops are good but may be just rumors.

Yes, MH cops are well known. It is not just not-leaving-mark part, which is just the operational efficiency part. It is about who should be encountered (the ethics / political side of encounters).

MH cops used to encounter identified mafia killers and shooters (even there, there is an accusation that it was to the favor of one D-gang by targeting rival gangs). If AP cops had identified the smuggling king-pins or the smugglers who were responsible for death of two forest officials two years ago, it could be understood. Shooting random low level workers just does not send a lasting message other than that of incompetence by AP cops.

[Singha]

http://www.gulte.com/news/37537/Telanga ... -Newly-wed

http://www.ndtv.com/telangana-news/2-po ... pet-751631

[Singha]

the smuggler kingpins would not remotely have any direct link with the operations side of things. this might be sub contracted to vellore arcot area gangs who have one leg in AP and one leg among the wood cutters they need to recruit. there is a very desolate region with one corner in krishnagiri, one in sarjapur and one in vellore....bleak hills and low pop density

the big bosses would be respectable businessmen living in plush villas in chennai, coimbatore, salem and other main cities. big boys never do the dirty work. they might have deep political links on both sides of border.

so unless a x-border enquiry is launched under CBI control AP police has no chance to catch any big fish.

[kmkraoind]

Warangal Encounter - Asaduddin Owaisi condems Fake Encounter by Police


Its a 6-minute video statement. Watch the body language and choice of words by Owaisi.

[schinnas]

Regarding the three escaped SIMI convicts who are still absconding, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more them are already caught and cops chose not to reveal it at this time. Whenever such news is revealed, it helps their comrades to escape. Even otherwise, from the mobile phones and personal belongings of the encountered terrorists, cops would have got some clues about their network.

TN police missed a golden opportunity to encounter Al-Umma terrorists, especially their king-pins such as Madani.

[Altair]

Owaisi seems more concerned and mourning than angry. Obviously he will have a dressing down from his masters. He refers to the under trails as "boys".
He is visibly disturbed at the helplessness of his position. This is a good data point. Earlier he would have asked for the resignation of the government or abused the CM for incompetence. He says no such things now. What changed?

[vasu raya]

This was the same Owaisi who threatened that if police cover is taken away for 15 mins, he can show his strength, if we play this out, there would be mobs rampaging and any police firing would have killed some. Next day MSM talks about how a small time worker in a shoe shop with 10 children to support or a helper boy in Hotel got killed due to police atrocity. The mob dynamics are different from these individual private roles each plays.

A 'rapist' was dragged out of jail and killed in NE recently, and the 30 odd people they managed to arrest from the attacking mob had teachers etc

The smuggler mob in sheshachalam wasn't aware of the task force strength and the woods played the context

[svenkat]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra_pradesh/Police-Story-Raises-a-Number-of-Questions/2015/04/08/article2753337.ece

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra_pradesh/Holes-In-Police-Narrative-on-Forest-Massacre-Exposed/2015/04/08/article2753129.ece

[svenkat]

Govt. nod sought for opening fire on red sanders smugglers

NATIONAL » ANDHRA PRADESH

CHITTOOR, April 3, 2015
Updated: April 3, 2015 05:46 IST

Deputy Inspector General of Police (DIG) M. Kantha Rao has said that a representation has been made to the State government seeking permission for opening fire on red sanders’ smugglers, saying that it would be an effective move to curb smuggling activities.

Speaking to the media in Chittoor here on Thursday, Mr. Kantha Rao, who is heading the Task Force (Red sanders operations) in Nellore, Prakasam and Rayalaseema districts, said that he was awaiting the nod from the State government for implementing the order which would involve no proceedings such as filing a case and prosecution.

The DIG further said that the list carrying names of forest officials who were allegedly operating in connivance with red sanders smugglers was being sent to the government. He warned that based on the government's instructions, such officials would be booked under criminal sections.

[Altair]

This was the same Owaisi who threatened that if police cover is taken away for 15 mins, he can show his strength

That was his brother Akbaruddin Owaisi

[member_28533]

Yes, MH cops are well known. It is not just not-leaving-mark part, which is just the operational efficiency part. It is about who should be encountered (the ethics / political side of encounters).

MH cops used to encounter identified mafia killers and shooters (even there, there is an accusation that it was to the favor of one D-gang by targeting rival gangs). If AP cops had identified the smuggling king-pins or the smugglers who were responsible for death of two forest officials two years ago, it could be understood. Shooting random low level workers just does not send a lasting message other than that of incompetence by AP cops.

AP cops are already tracking and arresting the kingpins as well - which is a parallel initiative, go back and look at posts in this forum itself that show how some kingpins with Naxal ties were arrested in Bangkok.. but at the same time, they need to stop this illegal activity and cant turn a blind eye just because these are "labor" and "poor". Same argument goes with Islamic terrorism. Why hang Kasab and why stop SIMI terrorists ? they too must be from poor families earning only few hundred rupees per month.. why not wait till Dawood Ibrahim is caught and just ignore the terror activities till then ?

But what's sad is the basic premise of your argument.. we can expect such tripe in online forums, but not a nationalist forum like BRF -that there was NO armed Mob of 100-150 trying to kill the cops and that the cops had no moral right for self preservation - an argument that the naxal and terrorist sympathizers repeatedly make against Indian armed forces.

Such a propensity to believe the words of 5-star activists, criminals and terrorists against those of our armed forces can only be due to your inherent prejudice and bias, which you need to correct.

Perhaps you should ask any well trained, armed force across the world how they would react under a sudden barrage of stone pelting from a dozens of aggressive foes in close range - perhaps your navy seals, spetznaz or marcos would be different ? You have any examples from real combat to prove their efficient usage of "soft power" and special care taken ?

Unless you have cctv footage or any visually documented evidence, we have to believe the words of our own security forces, not those of anti-national rogues like Vaiko and the usual nonsense from presstitutes.

CBN and Modi govt should reward the security forces for taking this timely, decisive step and it will indeed act as a deterrent. Whether its bengalis or biharis or pakis or tamils, Indian law must hold supreme and cops doing their duty is always a welcome change.

[svenkat]

Imho,the statement by DIG M.Kantha Rao on April 3,2015 reported by Hindu cannot be dismissed lightly.There he is seeking permission to kill smugglers without filing a case.

In the same report Mr Rao says he has sent a file to GoAP informing the Govt of policemen operating in connivance with smugglers.How differently has Mr Rao treated the labourers and the suspect policemen.Its not clear if the labourers who felled trees were the smugglers who attacked the police in past incidents.

[schinnas]

Whether its bengalis or biharis or pakis or tamils, Indian law must hold supreme and cops doing their duty is always a welcome change.

Fully agreed. We should try these AP cops (nay murderers) for cold blooded murder of 20 laborers without provocation in violation of our constitution.

[ramana]

In the SIMI case can some one get all the facts and write a post.

To me looks like three SIMI are still at large....

[uddu]

Whether its bengalis or biharis or pakis or tamils, Indian law must hold supreme and cops doing their duty is always a welcome change.

Fully agreed. We should try these AP cops (nay murderers) for cold blooded murder of 20 laborers without provocation in violation of our constitution.

It must be "Fully agreed. We should try these AP cops (nay murderers) for cold blooded murder of 20 smugglers without provocation in violation of our constitution" {that constitution will be the constitution of smugglers. }

A nation where smugglers, corrupt, terrorists, criminals, rapists and political thugs can rule the common man. Law is only applicable for the common man and not for the above gang.

Appreciate the police for being pro people and taking on smugglers. Hope if this continues and the ones not so far into the future crime will drop on its own. This must not limit to criminals at the lower end but at the top end also need to be punished.

[schinnas]

The DIG sort of hanged himself with that letter that admits that he planned to shoot the laborers without arresting them and without facing any threat or violence. His legal position is now untenable. It is just a matter of time before he gets behind bars.

Extra judicial executions are a grave exception that are acceptable only in rarest of the rare cases such as terrorists who are un-repentent and openly indicate their willingness to continue the same path but where we do not have legal options to have them locked up for ever. On the other hand, if every cop wants to quench their blood thirst by doing encounters at their whim, then we will become worse than Afghanistan.

Encounters even when covertly sanctioned by political leadership should be taken as an extra-ordinary step and only for well researched targets for whom no other reasonable option exists.

[schinnas]

Uddu and mchilian:
:ROFL: with your arguments. Per your arguments, next time you break traffic light, police should be justified in shooting you dead without warning. Rash driving kills more people than smugglers and there will be many intelligent souls like yourselves who will applaud the cops for doing their duty.

Lets screw the legal process, rule of law and all that. Policing shooting at unarmed civilians without following legal process is what we need in this country. Bravo! I am impressed with such level headed arguments.

[RamaY]

There is a detailed article in Eenadu paper about RedSandal smuggling.

Nearly 250 villages are involved in this. The smugglers are separated from the labor to avoid police investigations. Bodyshopping agents are used as middlemen to handle the labor issue. Labor are paid
- Rs 1Lakh for 6 months work
- Family is taken care when labor is out
- Rs 10Lakh life insurance coverage in case of death
- Free health insurance for labors in case of work related wounds/health issues
- Free court services if labor are arrested and are in jail. Family is taken care in case of jail term
and so on..

Labor are paid Rs 600 per Kilo wood. The going rate is Rs 1Cr/Ton in black market (mostly China?)

The labor are trained and timed to cut a big tree in specific amount of time and carrying large wooden blocks. Labor selection process looks like a sports events.

This is a well oiled black-market system.

The only permanent solution to this is to provide semi-arid lands to these labors and help them plant red-sandal trees that will give annual returns over 50-100 years. Read this "model" farmer story.

We need to get away from colonial farming laws (it was unlawful to grow some verities of timber plants before) and bring everything into open market.

Encourage farmers to come up with large cooperative farms (5000-10000 acres) that develop sustainable timber industry (Cut 100-200 acres every year over 50 yrs).

[RamaY]

Policing shooting at unarmed civilians without following legal process is what we need in this country. Bravo! I am impressed with such level headed arguments.

These "unarmed" civilian coolies are "allegedly" tried to attack the police team with axes. They have a history of killing police petrol teams before.

[schinnas]

RamaY:
Please read the Indian express article above and the letter of the DIG. It is evident that it was a premeditated attack by the cops and there is absolutely NO shred of evidence that these daily laborers were the same ones that attacked forest officials with stones in the past or actually even challenged them . All initial evidence from the crime scene per all reports point to cold blooded execution at close range at very early morning (before dawn). Each of the dead has bullet wounds only in the forehead and chest indicating close range execution.

The actual *smugglers* are dozens in numbers (and some of them are amongst forest services and police department and politician classes) who employ several hundred daily wagers - most of them illiterates and tribals - who are paid only a daily wage or wage per tree cut.

One wonder why this brave DGP didn't shoot his own breathern and forest officials who actually indulged in (or supported) smuggling per his own letter to the government. Why show bravado against these tribal laborers?

[schinnas]

Any system or legal framework would need some exceptions. Everyone knows that vast majority of encounters are actually "shoot to kill" orders as it is perceived to be against larger public interest by trying these suspects through legal process. For such a model to work there has to be deniability and ability to claim that it was an act of self defense and (this is even more important) a well considered evaluation by the civilian elected leadership that the suspects are extremely dangerous to be tried through normal legal process where there is a chance of them getting out soon.

However, the danger with this approach is once we make our own law enforcement officials empowered to break the very law that they are meant to uphold, it becomes a slippery slope. All it takes is a trigger happy person to collapse this system by randomly applying this exception scenario to every use case even when it does not make sense.

Rule of law with an approved (in terms of wink and nod) system of exception to it would work if and only if the exception is done in rarest of rare cases and its application is consistent (ex: known un-repentent terrorists, identified cop killers).

Now I have better appreciation for why US created Guantanamo Bay and other such facilities outside of US borders so that they can ensure that they can keep unwanted elements under detention indefinitely and there is a well established rules as to who get to go to Guantanamo Bay (mostly foreign terrorists who are considered to wage war against US).

[RamaY]

schinnas:

I read that news article. Unfortunately I have less faith in media than I have in police when it comes to truth.

I go by data. Just few months back a couple of forest officers were hacked to death by smuggler gang. And these smugglers are cutting old red-sandal trees and burning whole forests to destroy evidence.

As citizens of India, these coolies are supposed to NOT involve in illegal activities and in fact are required to inform police. "Poverty" cant be an excuse to do illegal activities; like "poverty" cant be an excuse to terrorism. There are millions of other illiterate and poor villagers/tribals who are making a living thru "legitimate" avenues.

Lets get out of the marxist nonsense.

[member_28533]

schinnas:

I read that news article. Unfortunately I have less faith in media than I have in police when it comes to truth.

I go by data. Just few months back a couple of forest officers were hacked to death by smuggler gang. And these smugglers are cutting old red-sandal trees and burning whole forests to destroy evidence.

As citizens of India, these coolies are supposed to NOT involve in illegal activities and in fact are required to inform police. "Poverty" cant be an excuse to do illegal activities; like "poverty" cant be an excuse to terrorism. There are millions of other illiterate and poor villagers/tribals who are making a living thru "legitimate" avenues.

Lets get out of the marxist nonsense.

Forget it Rama Y garu.

These people are too chauvinist and parochial to even admit to the remotest possibility of some veracity in the police version. Such is their firmness of belief that as if everyone of them had concrete evidences that police lives were never in danger and ANdhra police being Andhra police enjoyed brutal murder and mayhem. They will only believe what they want to believe.

They will continue to listen only to Marxists and anti-nationalist venemous snakes.

Makes us wonder if that section of radical Muslims sympathizing with ISIS and Al-qaeda are any bad than these prejudiced folks.

[member_28533]

Uddu and mchilian:
:ROFL: with your arguments. Per your arguments, next time you break traffic light, police should be justified in shooting you dead without warning. Rash driving kills more people than smugglers and there will be many intelligent souls like yourselves who will applaud the cops for doing their duty.

Lets screw the legal process, rule of law and all that. Policing shooting at unarmed civilians without following legal process is what we need in this country. Bravo! I am impressed with such level headed arguments.

If a mob breaks even a traffic rule, then starts pelting stones with an intention to murder the cops, the cops are justified in shooting them to death - is it so difficult for you to understand ?

Lets try an experiment. How about giving you a gun and have a dozen-strong mob armed with axes, stones and iron rods rush at you in close range... lets see how you hold up ?

You can then pontificate all you want after you successfully survive this experiment about tolerance and "soft force" vagaira vagaira.

[Vayutuvan]

RamaY:
Please read the Indian express article above and the letter of the DIG. It is evident that it was a premeditated attack by the cops and there is absolutely NO shred of evidence that these daily laborers were the same ones that attacked forest officials with stones in the past or actually even challenged them .

Sire, on the other hand you are in favor of "covert" killings. In telugu there is a saying "dorikite donga". Is that what you subscribe to? So in your opinion, illegal acts on the sly are OK. Just make sure that you don't get caught. Are you suggesting that flouting the law of the land, if done covertly, is OK anxd that is what the DIG in question should have done as opposed to his getting permission from the government (which is duly elected by the people whose property is being destroyed) for a ruling to this effect. If it is within the purview of AP govt. to give permission and they gave it to the DIG, how can you find fault with the DIG? What you have to show is that such a permission by the AP govt. is unconstitutional. Whatever the preconditions that exist for firing on the smugglersmight have been satisfied in this particular instance.

One of the conditions I can think of is whether the smugglers were armed, violent, and are a danger to law enforcement officials.

[Gus]

I go by data. Just few months back a couple of forest officers were hacked to death by smuggler gang. And these smugglers are cutting old red-sandal trees and burning whole forests to destroy evidence.

And what data are you going by - that the people who killed the forest officers are the same people who were shot dead now?

[ramana]

Guys wood cutters being killed is not internal security but Police thread in Tech Forum.

So please go there.
Meantime focus on the SIMI terrorists.

[Vayutuvan]

Gus: I have a reply but that will take more time to formulate than I have. If you move your post to Police Thread, I will put a marker there and might come back in due course. Otherwise I will agree to disagree and move on.

[RamaY]

by all means, go after the bigwigs and their enablers/mid level on the ground. killing a bunch of last guys in the chain of this criminal enterprise is..what can one say...

yes, they are criminals but being shot like this?

In a war, you don't just kill top general. The war happens in trenches.

To your question on why you don't see trees behind the dead but only logs, the labor need to deliver the logs at a pickup point. So this encounter happened on the way.

Is this a fake encounter? No one knows. But I wouldn't blame the police for being over cautious because few months back similar labor Hacked few forest officers to death for stopping them & trying to arrest them.

[ramana]

Also X-Post from Chennai Train Station Blast thread....

Suspect in Chennai Central blast killed - The Hindu

One of the suspects in the May 2014 blast at the Chennai Central railway station was among the two alleged SIMI activists gunned down by the Andhra Pradesh police in Nalgonda district a couple of days ago.

According to an official in the CB-CID that is probing the blasts on board the Bangalore-Guwahati Express, which killed a woman passenger and injured 14 others on May 1 last year, Md. Aijajuddeen of Madhya Pradesh was one of the persons whose involvement was suspected. Aijajuddeen, his associate Md. Aslam alias Bilal were killed when police opened fire on Saturday.

[RamaY]

I go by data. Just few months back a couple of forest officers were hacked to death by smuggler gang. And these smugglers are cutting old red-sandal trees and burning whole forests to destroy evidence.

And what data are you going by - that the people who killed the forest officers are the same people who were shot dead now?

Sir,
Your logic is like Paki logic "Kill only those soldiers who killed your soldiers".

The crackdown is happening for a long time. Poverty is not an excuse to do illegal activities. Pls remember we are on BRF, not rediff.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 084490.cms

Though the illegal trade has been flourishing for decades, the crackdown began after smugglers killed two forest officials in December 2013. Another reason is a commerce ministry order of October 2013 allowing Andhra Pradesh to export seized stock of red sandalwood. "After the Centre's move, the AP government ordered the forest department to curb smuggling," said N Vellaiyan of Jawadhu Malai Lamp Cooperative Society.

[ramana]

In the SIMI case can some one get all the facts and write a post.

To me looks like three SIMI are still at large....

from the gulte.com news story

The two terrorists had killed home guard Mahesh and grievously injured circle inspector Y Mogalaiah on April 2 at Suryapet. The terrorists had escaped from Khandwa Jail in Madhya Pradesh. Mohammad Aijajudden and Mohammad Aslam have been killed and 3 others - Amjad Khan, Zakir Hussain Sadiq and Mehboob Guddu - are absconding. -

See more at: http://www.gulte.com/news/37537/Telanga ... gDzY8.dpuf

[ramana]

Folks I request help.

Please report al the wood cutter posts and will transfer them to the other thread....

Thanks,
ramana