The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Supratik wrote:svenkat, Kerala is already Muslim majority by birth. Assam is also Muslim majority by birth and West Bengal is very close to it.
Below are the numbers.
Growth in population 2001-2011 religion wise
Assam
Increase in Muslim population - 2.4 million
Increase in non-Muslim population - 2.1 million
West Bengal
Increase in Muslim population - 4.4 million
Increase in non-Muslim population - 6.7 million
Kerala
Increase in Muslim population - 1 million
Increase in non-Muslim population - 0.5 million
The only solution to maintain demographic balance for Kerala is for immigrants (assuming that they are 80% non-Muslim) to settle down and WB, AS to deport illegal immigrants.
The number of live births in Kerala are higher for Hindus than Muslims, even though the gap is very small now. That means, if the above number is accurate, it indicates either high immigration and low emigration of Muslims compared to Hindus. Or it should indicate a higher death rate of hindus than muslims.
From the link you provided above (page 23),
Religion wise analysis of live births reveals that out of the total 560268 live births
44.37% belong to Hindu Community 38.21% belong to Muslim Community 16.90% belong to
Christian Community. Again a meager 0.04 % didn’t disclose their religion. High order births
are more in Muslim community followed by the Christian Community. Further, religion wise
analysis on the age group of mothers reveals that a Muslim women belonging to the age group
15- 19 becoming mother before attaining the age of maturity is quite prevalent. This fact points
out that these women are getting married at the age of 18 or even before. Even though individual
cases of live births occurred to mothers in the age group below 15 is negligibly small, the very
existence of such a practice is a black mark to this 100% literate State.
Yes, I have seen that. If you look at the death rate it is higher for Hindus - why I don't know. Also immigration may be one reason for higher Hindu live births. The aggregate HDI of Kerala is impressive but you will find distortions if you disaggregate e.g. low age of child bearing for Muslim women, low life expectancy for Hindus, etc.
I interviewed with a "reputable'' NGO based in Philadelphia, whose head is supposedly hindu. I went through 5 interviews, 4 in their headquarters and 1 over phone. Everything seemed legit. It was a teach abroad program and the project was supposed to be in Kasargod. The board was made up of big shots from medicine and industry. It turns out that 3 days before my flight, I was informed by my colleague who was already there, that the project we were supposed to be working on was a tie up between a christian missionary organization, UPenn, and the NGO. I cancelled everything that very day. It was a huge waste of time. I wanted to boost my medical school application but I wasn't going to work with bloody missionaries to do it. It seemed like a beautiful place to work but I couldn't believe it. The NGO told me that I would be working with a government run orphanage and school.
These evanglelicals and their sepoy network have their hands in everything. It's disgusting. The biggest threat to India is changing the identity of its citizenry. One that happens communities get ripped apart.
Even Bengaluru,Mangalore have HUUUUGE Xtian presence.But theres a rooted hindu culture which anyday can overwhelm the 'mischief' makers when the occassion demands.
Ditto for TN which has an even greater presence where Xtism is interwined with Caldwell/Pope dravidianism.Still Tamizh linguistic/cultural traditions are stronger.
Kasargod does not have that protection.
Supratik,
you didnt get what I was saying.Suppose KL and TN are the same state.Suppose TN does not have strong native traditions.Will TN not be overwhelmed by KL muslim demographics.
Supratik wrote:I am talking about demographic threat. There is no such threat at present in TN.
sister jayalalitha brought in an anti conversion law and withdrew it almost immediately due to out cry from the xtians. then she quickly turned pretty xtian pasand in her outlook.
what do you mean that there is no demographic threat?? The threat is growing from within.
This threat is manifesting itself, just like metallic corrosion does, eating out the body from within. That, the surface is coated with a shiny coat of paint, does not mean that the corrosion is not present underneath the coat of paint, eating away surreptitiously and doing severe damage to the body of the edifice.
There are some leaks on Christian population in 2011 census. It has to be verified but if it is correct there has been a sharp decline in growth - probably the fastest of any community. I will bring it up at the relevant thread when I get confirmation. I cannot vouch for CTs or allegations of crypto-Christians. My contention is based on official data. From that I see a diminishing demography. We should not put too much emphasis on claims and theories and get distracted from real issue. The demographic imbalance will come from Muslim population growth e.g. the Muslim population growth has remained stuck at 29% in Assam for three decades. Obviously it is illegal immigration and that is a real issue. This is IMO.
Supratik, A very large percentage of dalit christians and MBCs do not identify them as Xtians officially in order to continue receive benefits of reservation. There are some who even record conversions to Hinduism through Arya Samaj to receive reservation benefits. There is one openly EJ IAS officer in TN who did that!
Take these statistics with a pinch of salt. Xtians are perhaps the fastest growing community.
Both Islam and Xtianity are valid religious theologies and one does not have any issues with anyone who follow these paths for Spiritual enlightenment and in Indian culture any spiritual practice is highly encouraged. We are the most broad minded people in that respect and should be very proud of it.
However, the concern is with their aam-abduls and aam-peters who are not spiritual or pious but just indulge in groupism and egoistic group affinity and other cult behavior. They also show loyalty to outside influences and disregard Indian tradition. Both Xtianity and Islam are politicized and these herds of followers are used for political ends and to spread disharmony which we should guard against. Until the level of awareness increases, these non religious followers of these religion should be treated as high risk cult members and the cult membership and activism should be kept in check. Same time, genuine followers of these religions should be proud followers of their faith and should be second to none in their freedom.
The solution to muslim cult population explosion is education (as opposed to just literarcy) and female empowerment and cutting down on illegal immigration from Bangladesh. Educated and working women do not agree to go for more than 2 kids. Illegal immigrants should be ghar whapasied before entering India.
The solution to EJ cult's population explosion is ghar wapasi through good means - by spreading awareness of the richness and practical path to Divine that Dharmic paths provide.
>> Both Xtianity and Islam are politicized and these herds of followers are used for political ends and to spread disharmony which we should guard against
key point. its like having a million or two foot soldiers in a place you want to someday conquer totally.
There is an inherent contradiction in all these discussions.
We, as a nation, must either agree that Secularism is an equalizer so it doesn't matter even if India becomes a Muslim or Christian majority nation OR there is a national security (what kind - Territorial, cultural, sovereign, economic?) risk from Indians converting to Islam and/or Christianity and Secularism failed (or worse facilitated this problem) us.
The next question is, what is the real problem? Islam or Christianity as ideologies themselves or otherwise "patriotic" Indians turning into muslims/christians?
An honest discussion is in the interests of the nation-state that 1.2billion people call "home". We cant have the cake and eat it too.
We have already discussed this in the burkha forum. Can't talk about statistics that is not there. The estimates are based on official data. I am not much familiar with the southern part of the country. This phenomenon is not widespread in the north except in certain pockets. Others can correct me if I am wrong. I, muraliravi and nageshk have already pointed out in the burkha forum what needs to be done e.g. modification of FCRA banning funds for religious purposes, modification of ngo act, freedom of religion bill, etc. Beyond that you can't do much if people are voluntarily leading a dual life except grinding your teeth. However, from official statistics I can see the Muslim demographic problem as a national security problem particularly in border areas. I think it is more important to focus on that. I would rather tackle a tiger that is in plain sight than worry about a tiger that some are claiming is just hiding behind the bush (may or may not be the truth).
Utterly demoralizing to read cr@p like this month after month, every year, and to have all these mobs that commit mass violence face no consequences. Not for burning trains, buses, or public property or government property. If indian state govts. cannot get such lawlessness under control, what's the bloody point? Any future investment will be burnt down to the ground with the law enforcement standing around like pieces of furniture.
RANCHI: A top Jamat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh (JMB) terrorist Ibrahim Sheikh alias Lal Mohammad (30) wanted in October 2014 Burdwan blast was arrested from Jharkhand's Pakur district, state police chief D K Pandey revealed on Sunday. A special Pakur police team nabbed Ibrahim on Saturday night when he was coming out of Tilbhitta railway station near Jharkhand-West Bengal-Bangladesh border in the district.
Looks like Rohan "Murty"'s sugardaddy became trustee of FF in 2008 october, long after his remarks on Parakram. Also, I wager no one here can access either a cached article or a web site that hosts any article on the CIA-Ford Foundation links -- obviously that is only because there is no connection, right? right? That said some CTs go overboard connecting CIA to MongoDB to Aadhar, by transitivity...demonstrates a certain lack of understanding of how things work.
ramana wrote:When did he join FF? Was it after or before Operation Parakram rants?
this is the same guy who wanted to become the president of India and when that enterprise failed, he wanted to settle for the the post of Indian ambassador to the US. wouldn't FF have been ecstatic onlee??
attendee and speaker at the jaipur lit fest.
Seems to have managed to push his son murty into some position/panel with the BJP govt HRD ministry.
chetak wrote:Seems to have managed to push his son murty into some position/panel with the BJP govt HRD ministry.
If this is indeed true, then I hope Jr. Murthy is watched closely. Narayana Murthy & Co, does'nt seem to be very genuine folks, even if he started Infosys and all that. The Sr. Murthy has been showing all Ganga Din tendencies for quite some time.
Hindu Samhati activists from West Bengal just sent in news of extensive violence against Hindus by Muslim mobs in Falta, South 24 Paraganas district.
According to their ground reports, on 23 April 2015, large scale violence was unleashed on Hindus of Mallikpur village falling in the Falta police jurisdiction. Mallikpur is located about 60 kilometres from Kolkata.
The incident started on the evening of 19 April after the car of a Maluvi hit a villager.
The same night, Muslims attacked the Sardarpara of that village and severely damaged three Hindu houses and a club named Saraswati Sporting Club.
On 22 April, Falta Police Officer in charge, Mr. Prasenjit Das convened a peace meeting between the two communities. Both sides pledged to maintain peace and harmony. However, that was not to last too long.
On 23 April, about 400 Muslims led by Trinamul Congress Mallikpur Anchal President, Lataul Hossain Mollah, attacked the Sardar Para (SC) of Mallikpur village with lethal arms.
Hindu Samhati told IndiaFacts that they are in possession of a report from the area of large scale damage, loot and arson of Hindu properties, torture and molestation of Scheduled Caste Hindu women. Scores of Hindus were injured grievously and more than 100 Hindus have fled from the village.
As per the Hindu Samhati report, 50 Hindu houses of Sardarpara and 10 big shops owned by Hindus of Mallikpur market have been looted and damaged. About 20 Hindu houses have been gutted. Cattle have been looted.
So far, police have arrested six Hindus and six Muslims.
However, the deadly rioting hasn’t ended there. Reportedly, several Muslims from Mograhat and Kolkata are heading towards Mallikpur village. According to a Hindu Samhati, activist, “Hindus there are extremely scared,” and added that “Hindus of this village are attached to VHP. They attended the VHP rally in Kolkata held on 20 December 2014 addressed by Sri Mohan Rao Bhagwat and Dr. Pravin Togadia.”
Latest Update
About three hours ago, a Hindu Samhati representative emailed IndiaFacts after visiting the affected Mallikpur village.
According to the email, about 125 Hindus, whose houses have been devastated yesterday, have taken shelter in the Mahaprabhu Sangha at Dakshin Mamudpur of Mallikpur anchal. Locals are taking care of their food and other basic needs.
“Police have completely barricaded the area…[we] could not reach the Mallikpur market where big Hindu shops [were] looted yesterday,” reads the email.
Further, “…victims told … [us] that yesterday the Muslim attackers were from political parties. Even local CPIM leader Mosarraf Seikh (Sonatala village) accompanied TMC leader Lataul Hossein Mollah to lead the rampaging. And house(s) and shops of Hindu members/supporters of all parties were attacked yesterday.”
According to the email, the local Hindus claim that the police force led by Officer in Charge, Prasenjit Das behaved in a partisan way and did not try to stop the rampaging mob.
South 24 Paraganas has been witness to increasing incidents of targeted violence against Hindus by Muslim mobs as earlier IndiaFacts reports show. Notable regions in the district where Hindus are vulnerable to such unprovoked aggression include Dalanghata, Roopnagar-Taranagar, Naliyakhali, and Usthi.
As in the earlier cases of such wanton attacks against Hindus, no mainstream newspaper or TV channel has reported the incident.
In the aftermath of the devastating earthquake, the Indo-Nepal border has become vulnerable to terrorist infiltration. Taking advantage of chaos along the Indo-Nepal border, members of several terrorist groups may enter India with sinister designs.
The Intelligence Bureau (IB) in its latest communique has sent an alert to Uttar Pradesh to intensify vigil at the border in Maharajganj, Siddharthnagar, Balrampur, Shravasti, Bahraich, Lakhimpur Kheri and Pilibhit in the state.
"It has become impossible for the forces to keep an eye on every person entering India from Nepal after the devastating earthquake in that country.
The Indian security establishment has alerted the government about the activities of Islamic State of Iraq and Syria(ISIS) in the Af-Pak region through its wilayat in Khurasan, the Wilayat Khurasan (WK), and the possible linkages of top WK leaders with the Pakistani establishment. India's external intelligence agency RAW has, in a recent report to the PMO, pointed out how WK's military leader Asmatullah Muawiya, formerly linked to Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and al Qaida, had made peace with the Pakistan army{Of course, he made peace with the Pakistani Army but there are no reports at all to suggest that he has become a commander or an agent for IS, unless R&AW had some other sources. To the best of open source information, he supports AQ. Of course, he has threatened to avenge India for the hanging of Kasab & Afzal Guru. Nothing earth shaking in these statements. He promised to focus on India after the US forces leave Afghanistan. This same point was echoed immediately thereafter by Al Qaeda leader Maulana Asim Umar, who is considered part of the Al Qaeda think tank in Pakistan and has been appointed head of the newly-formed AQIS who released a video message inviting Indian Muslims to join jihad around the corner after the US forces leave. Thus, it was obvious that Muawiya was with AQ.} last year and threatened India "in the recent times".
The agency noted that a former Guantanamo Bay detainee, who was shifted to Pakistan's custody in 2008, Abdul Rahim Muslim Dost, had been appointed as WK's religious head and a judge. He is a key member of a salafi group of Kunar, the Jamaat ul Dawa al Quran, which has links with Lashker e Taiba elements in the tribal areas of Af-Pak region.
Though both Muawiya and Dost do not command sizeable followings and have been inactive, the RAW report said, "the creation of WK and possible linkages of its leaders with the Pak establishment is a matter of concern for India".
According to the intelligence agencies, ISIS was differentiating between the developments in Af-Pak and the Middle East and North Africa. "It is pertinent to recall that while announcing Wilayats across the Middle East and North Africa, the ISIS had not named any groups or leaders, but it did so for the WK...while it asked the wilayats in the Middle East and North Africa to carry out jihad locally, it called on the soldiers of WK to join the jihad in Syria and Iraq," said the RAW report.
A case in point, it added, was ISIS's denial of WK's involvement in the April 18 attacks in Jalalabad, which killed many civilians and armed personnel. This was despite WK having claimed responsibility earlier. The ISIS propaganda machinery not only did not flag the attacks, but on April 27 also denied any involvement of WK through its daily news update, the Islamic State New Bulletin, calling it a "smear campaign by those who wanted to slander the IS". The RAW report underlined how ISIS had named former TTP commander Hafeez Saeed Khan as the Wali and former Afghan Taliban commander Abdul Rauf Khadim as the deputy Wali. Rauf, incidentally, was not part of the Khurasan Shura that formed itself and gave bayat to ISIS before WK was announced. "It appears that the feedback channels for ISIS from Af-Pak region either played up Rauf's image or provided incorrect affiliation of Rauf with Khurasan Shura," the agency poined out.
A video of Hafeez Saeed, following the killing of Rauf in US drone strikes two weeks after the declaration of WK, showed him standing in front of a worn-out ISIS flag, talking about avenging Rauf's death. Inputs indicate Saeed was close to ex-TTP Amir Hakimullah Mehsud, who got killed in US drone strikes while he was about to make peace with Pakistan. Saeed had disappeared for over a year and re-appeared suddenly few days before the Jalalabad attacks.
"Few days before the Jalalabad attacks, Pak media reported that Saeed had been killed assembling/planning an IED in Khyber Agency in Pakistan, though till date neither WK nor ISIS has denied or accepted this," reported RAW.
In the mean while an ASI has shot dead the Senior PI of a Mumbai Police station and commited suicide. The ASI was asked to report for work, when he planned a leave. The Sr. PI on night patrol found the ASI missing at his duty point and noted his absence in the station diary. Mumbai police inspector shot by junior dead
Leader of Thanthai Periyar Dravida Kazhagam K. Ramakrishnan received the ‘Periyar Oli’ award, M.H. Jawahirullah of Manithaneya Makkal Katchi was bestowed with ‘Kayithey Millat Pirai’ award, Professor K. Neduncheziyan was given the ‘Iyotheethasar Adhavan’ award, ‘Avvai Natarasan’ received ‘Semmozhi Gnayiru’ award and the late G.K. Moopanar was posthumously awarded the ‘Kamarajar Kadhir’ award.
Katju once boasted of abetting the stay of Pakistani illegals in India on Facebook using similar nonsense and I posted it here in this very thread before.
Now he extends the same courtesy to BD's:
Sunday, 3 May 2015
'Illegal' Bangladeshi immigrants
I was asked my opinion about illegal Bangladeshi immigrants.
Since I regard Bangladesh ( like Pakistan ) to be part of India, in my opinion there is no such thing as an 'illegal Bangladeshi immigrant '. All 'Bangladeshis' have a right to come into india, as they are really Indians.
And most of them come here because of poverty, and seeking a livelihood..
Katju is the strongest argument for destroying the Judge Cabal that decides who gets to be Supreme Court judges. But these crooked jokers in the SC are not about to give up so easily -- they act as if they are not beholden to the constitution.
This self-serving joker who calls himself the chief justice apparently will not cooperate with the elected representatives of the people, which includes the ruling party and the opposition. who do these SC judges think they are? The rules are very clear -- the legislature/executive gets to make the rules and the SC only gets to interpret the rules. It is not vested with any law making powers, and the SC and its incestuous clique certainly has no power or authority to decide its own future, if the legislature rewrites the rules.
When the highest court in the land has no respect for the rules, then why expect the rest of populace to have the same?
In response to the invitation from your office to attend meeting to select two eminent persons, I have to say that it is neither appropriate nor desirable for me to attend the meeting or be part of National Judicial Appointments Commission till the Supreme Court decides its validity," the CJI has said in his letter to Modi, sources said.
Last edited by Tuvaluan on 04 May 2015 06:13, edited 1 time in total.
^^^ India must be the only country in the world where so many soldiers keep dying in peace time. This is a result of decades of neglect of Congi rule and its socialism which left large parts of Indian undeveloped.
Well the new govt should make these groups realize that soldiers' lives are valuable and they can't get away with such acts.
Honestly, I just see business as usual in this regard regardless of the govt at the center.
An Afghan businessman is believed to be allegedly indoctrinating youth from Maharashtra to join the dreaded Islamic State, claims the National Investigation Agency (NIA), which has sent its first judicial requests in the case to Afghanistan seeking details of the person.
The Afghan national, whose name has been withheld, was running business of dry fruits in India and allegedly approached the four youths from the Kalyan area neighbouring Mumbai and brainwashed them to join the ranks of the IS terror group, official sources said.
The man had mysteriously disappeared after NIA arrested Areeb Majeed when he was deported from Turkey to India last November.
They said Letters Rogatory, sent to Afghanistan, had been cleared by the Home Ministry and would be issued by the competent court this week.
Unfortunately, this has become a mindset issue - saw a youtube video some time back of MSA (Muslim students association) students doing the one finger ISIS salute at an US college... so, this has become quite prevalent.
The controversy around the smuggling of red sanders and gunning down of alleged red sanders smugglers in Andhra Pradesh has not deterred Chinese nationals seeking the precious wood. On Friday, the Bengaluru district police arrested a 22-year-old Chinese national and her boyfriend on the charge of buying the banned red sanders from their local contact on the outskirts of the city. The accused have been identified as Loung Xiang Zhou Deng Chang, a second year engineering student in a city college [Bengaluru], and her boyfriend Zhang Guaxiu Lin Wei (22), a student in Changchun city in Liaoning province in China. The duo, along with their tourist guide, identified by the police as Saleem Pasha, and driver Shivakumar, were nabbed while they were travelling in a car with 16 billets of red sanders.
