India-US Relations : News and Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

UlanBatori wrote:I wonder how much of the attack is because Zakaria is a desi, not home-grown Oiro-American. Most of what most Senators, COTUS Reps and Presidents etc say sounds pretty plagiarized and trite, it doesn't seem to bother these writers.

Not that I like Mr. Zakaria, in fact the opposite may be true, but one has to be careful about these attacks. As in "Ask not for whom the bell tolls, the ISIS may be coming for us next".

Zakaria, through whatever route, is successful. Enough to trigger all sorts of petty jealosies esp. from desis.
Pretty much suummarizes the attack. Convenient 15 minutes for a wordpress blog. We are going towards dark times.

No support for Zakaria, just a statement of facts. Zakaria is equivalent to amanpour, and not by chance.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12089
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

UlanBatori wrote:I wonder how much of the attack is because Zakaria is a desi, not home-grown Oiro-American. Most of what most Senators, COTUS Reps and Presidents etc say sounds pretty plagiarized and trite, it doesn't seem to bother these writers.
UBji I did hit have to go beyond the very first example from oct, 2011 in time magazine (iirc). This is unmitigated plagiarism. Moreover politicos do not claim to be neither professional :) journalists nor writers. They use quoted from their favorite snake oil salesmen AKA other politicians of JFK ilk who brought the world very close to annihilation in the name of staring the "dirty communist" USSR down midi the fact that communism was not as a big problem as totalitarianism and non-represenation and leftist elitism of the SAJA/haas khas brand. Oh by the way, mr. (Dr.?) Zakaria falls into the same bucket as all those Oxbridge Rhodes scholahs - just a different Cambridge is all.
Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

matrimc wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:I wonder how much of the attack is because Zakaria is a desi, not home-grown Oiro-American. Most of what most Senators, COTUS Reps and Presidents etc say sounds pretty plagiarized and trite, it doesn't seem to bother these writers.
UBji I did hit have to go beyond the very first example from oct, 2011 in time magazine (iirc). This is unmitigated plagiarism. Moreover politicos do not claim to be neither professional :) journalists nor writers. They use quoted from their favorite snake oil salesmen AKA other politicians of JFK ilk who brought the world very close to annihilation in the name of staring the "dirty communist" USSR down midi the fact that communism was not as a big problem as totalitarianism and non-represenation and leftist elitism of the SAJA/haas khas brand. Oh by the way, mr. (Dr.?) Zakaria falls into the same bucket as all those Oxbridge Rhodes scholahs - just a different Cambridge is all.
Plagiarism by itself is hardly Indo-US. Nor is it rare or looked down upon (any more). So the context here is why now, and against whom is this hullaballoo being raised. We (this forum, previously demonstrated) could care less re. plagiarism even where peer-review standards are higher or where US government money has been copiously obtained via this fraud.

Zakaria has no great following here either. However, he is still an outsider. The UB hypothesis, that I subscribed to, is that he is being scrutinized and attacked for what *each* of his colleagues practices simply because of his weak connections and ethnicity. There is nothing that suggests otherwise.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12089
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

Shreeman: I don't want to go off topic, but professional jealousies are par for the course in any profession. There is nothing wrong in criticizing a person's pedigree if the criticized kept quiet when it was used to prop that person up (the word Brihaspati uses for this - hagiography) or has been used (if not in full but at least in part and if not directly at least tangentially) to get to where that person is today.

The claim by Mr. Zakaria that he always gets his information from primary sources is being disputed here. He should have been upfront and given credit to the person who computed the numbers from raw data. Going to through primary sources, gather data and summarize would have taken some work, right? Granted it is not a lot of work in this case but still work is work.
Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

matrimc wrote:Shreeman: I don't want to go off topic, but professional jealousies are par for the course in any profession. There is nothing wrong in criticizing a person's pedigree if the criticized kept quiet when it was used to prop that person up (the word Brihaspati uses for this - hagiography) or has been used (if not in full but at least in part and if not directly at least tangentially) to get to where that person is today.

The claim by Mr. Zakaria that he always gets his information from primary sources is being disputed here. He should have been upfront and given credit to the person who computed the numbers from raw data. Going to through primary sources, gather data and summarize would have taken some work, right? Granted it is not a lot of work in this case but still work is work.
I see, the "I misinterpreted the rules" defense.

What is tripe of the goose is not food for the gander. The correct method for copyright infringment is to take the matter to the federal court where a gag order will make sure nothing ever comes out of it. It is not to sully someone's reputation on a blog. And then you have to be owner of the copyright on the original work to have any standing.

Next, the plagiarism aspect. Did you know that even the highest authority in the land for PAID work imposes a 6 year deadline for finding plagiarism, and a percentage of words overlap to go with it that does not even consider a few sentences. There is no legal protection against plagiarism.

And if you find and meet all possible guidelines, there is always the non-response and delay method to kill any investigation. Why are you imposing the "this sentence matches that generic sentence of facts" for a brown person? In the days of FOX news standardization, is there even a thing as journalism? Why pick on the odd brown person, when there are a thousand white examples of much worse behavior. Why are you doing it on a free blog. And now where is your money now that you have opened your mouth? What is next?

Badmouthing and outcasting are the accepted methods?

Plagiarism and stealing others work is the main and preferred academic method now. Why shouldnt zakaria do it?
anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1922
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

Passage to India
What Washington Can Do to Revive Relations With New Delhi
By Nicholas Burns

In the century ahead, U.S. strategic interests will align more closely with India’s than they will with those of any other continental power in Asia. The United States and India both seek to spread democracy, expand trade and investment, counter terrorism, and, above all, keep the region peaceful by balancing China’s growing military power. As Washington expands its presence in Asia as part of the so-called pivot, New Delhi will be a critical partner. In the Asia-Pacific region, especially, India joins Australia, Japan, South Korea, and others in a U.S.-led coalition of democratic allies. And as the most powerful state in South Asia, India will exert a positive influence on a troubled Afghanistan, as well as on Bangladesh, Nepal, and Sri Lanka.

The Obama administration should therefore use its remaining two years to make India a greater priority, especially since the country has not yet figured prominently in the rebalancing of U.S. attention and resources to Asia. In President Barack Obama’s first term, many Indians complain, the United States devoted less attention to India than to its rivals China and Pakistan, pursuing economic links with the former and counterterrorism ties with the latter. That appearance of neglect, however fair or unfair, has rankled Indian officials and eroded some of their trust in Washington.

With the election of a new government in New Delhi, the Obama administration has a chance to repair the relationship. In May, Indians voted into office Narendra Modi, a Hindu nationalist from the western state of Gujarat who has signaled that he wants to build a more ambitious partnership with the United States. That will happen only if Obama pushes India to the top of his foreign policy agenda and Modi implements a series of reforms to enable stronger economic and political ties between the two governments. The leaders are scheduled to hold their first meeting in Washington this September, and before they do, both should begin thinking about rebuilding the U.S.-Indian relationship in five key ways: by expanding bilateral trade, strengthening military cooperation, collaborating to combat threats to homeland security, stabilizing a post-American Afghanistan, and, especially, finding greater common ground on transnational challenges such as climate change. It is an ambitious agenda, but pursuing it would put India where it belongs: at the center of U.S. strategy in the region.

FALLING OUT

Despite a promising start, Obama’s India policy never hit full stride.
Many Indian officials look back on the presidency of George W. Bush as a special moment in U.S.-Indian relations. From his first days in office, Bush made India a priority, arguing that its flourishing market economy, entrepreneurial drive, democratic system, and growing young population were crucial to U.S. aims in the region. He saw that the two countries, far from being strategic rivals, shared many of the same views on how power should be balanced in the twenty-first century. He believed that the United States had a clear interest in supporting India’s rise as a global power.

The results of his emphasis were dramatic. The volume of trade in goods and services between the United States and India has more than tripled since 2004. Also since then, the two governments have dramatically strengthened their military ties and launched new cooperative projects on space, science and technology, education, and democratic governance.

Bush also engineered one of the most important initiatives in the history of the U.S.-Indian relationship: the civil nuclear agreement, which for the first time permitted U.S. firms to invest in India’s civil nuclear power sector. (I served as the lead American negotiator for the deal.) This agreement helped end India’s nuclear isolation, allowing New Delhi to trade in civil nuclear technology even though it is not a party to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. In return, India opened up its civil nuclear industry for the first time to sustained international inspection. The agreement’s real import, though, lay in its message to the Indian people: the United States took their country seriously and wanted to leave behind the previous decades of cool relations. More broadly, it was a signal of U.S. support for India’s emerging global role.

When Obama took office, he followed Bush’s lead. After all, Bush’s India policy had enjoyed rare and strong support from Democrats -- including then U.S. Senators Joseph Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Obama himself -- throughout his second term. In 2009, Obama hosted then Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his wife as the administration’s first official state visitors. During his own successful state visit to New Delhi in 2010, Obama became the first U.S. president to endorse India’s bid to become a permanent member of the UN Security Council.

Yet despite this promising start, Obama’s India policy never hit full stride. Although Clinton, as secretary of state, collaborated with New Delhi on development and women’s issues, the administration was understandably preoccupied with the more urgent short-term crises it had inherited on taking office: the global financial meltdown, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the threat of a nuclear Iran. It was a classic Washington story of near-term crises crowding out long-term ambitions. As Obama’s first term ended, India slid down Washington’s priority list, and Indian officials complained privately about what they saw as a lack of attention from their American counterparts.

To be fair to Obama, however, the Indian government played an even greater role in the relationship’s decline. In 2010, the Indian Parliament passed an ill-advised nuclear liability law that placed excessive responsibility on suppliers for accidents at nuclear power plants. The legislation, which gained support after the 25th anniversary of a horrific chemical spill at an American-owned plant in Bhopal, shattered investor confidence. By deterring U.S. and other firms from entering the Indian market, the law made implementation of the civil nuclear agreement impossible, undermining what should have been the centerpiece of the two countries’ relationship. Washington and New Delhi haven’t managed to resolve the impasse.

The relationship suffered further when Indian economic growth slowed markedly in 2012 and 2013, depressing foreign investment, as the government, led by the Indian National Congress, was rocked by corruption allegations and failed to implement promised reforms in retail, insurance, energy, and infrastructure. New Delhi unwisely imposed discriminatory taxes on foreign investors and enacted protectionist measures that impeded trade. A series of bitterly fought U.S.-Indian trade disputes took center stage, overshadowing the political and military ties that had been the glue of the growing partnership and preventing the two countries from being able to strike any major new economic agreements.

Then came two severe diplomatic tempests. Over the course of 2013, as Modi emerged as a front-runner in the upcoming election, the Indian press revived the story of Washington’s earlier decision to bar Modi from entering the United States on the grounds that he had failed to suppress deadly anti-Muslim riots in 2002, when he was chief minister of Gujarat. Bush administration officials, including me, believed this to be the right decision at the time, but many Modi supporters charged that the visa ban was yet another example of American disregard for Indian dignity.

Then, in December 2013, U.S. federal agents arrested Devyani Khobragade, India’s deputy consul general in New York, for lying on her housekeeper’s visa application, infuriating the Indian press and public. It was a perfect but avoidable storm. The United States should have handled the visa issue at the core of the dispute in private to avoid inflaming India’s bruised ego, and the Indian government, which made matters worse by downgrading security at the U.S. embassy in New Delhi and refusing to renew teachers’ visas at the American Embassy School, should have reacted more calmly. Instead, both governments fanned the flames, and anti-American furor dominated the news in India for weeks.

By early 2014, the collapse in confidence was all too visible, and this is what Obama and Modi must begin working to repair when they meet. At the same time, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, and Secretary of the Treasury Jack Lew must act, in effect, as project managers, steering the relationship past the inevitable obstacles, just as then Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice did so capably in Bush’s second term. Top-down government leadership is essential to motivate the vast U.S. bureauc-racy to put India back at the center of Washington’s attention.

Modi’s clear intent to jump-start relations gives Obama a unique opportunity to reciprocate.
Obama, meanwhile, will find a willing partner in Modi. Remarkably, the prime minister has exhibited no public signs of resentment over the visa issue and, in a show of good faith, decided in May that he would visit Washington instead of insisting that Obama first visit New Delhi. Modi has already demonstrated himself to be an unusually strong Indian leader, who will use his executive authority in a more hands-on fashion than did his predecessors. His clear intent to jump-start New Delhi’s relationship with Washington has created a unique opportunity for Obama to reciprocate.

IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID

Obama should focus first on Modi’s main priority: reviving the Indian economy. Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party won a landslide victory in the spring in large part because voters had grown frustrated by India’s slow growth, crumbling infrastructure, and pervasive government corruption. Through Modi’s landslide win, the Indian people sent a compelling message about the need for dramatic economic reform, and Modi promised to deliver.

But in the past two years, U.S.-Indian trade disputes have hampered economic cooperation. The United States has made legitimate complaints about Indian protectionism, and the two governments have filed World Trade Organization cases against each other involving such goods as solar panels, steel, and agricultural products. Invoking safety concerns, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has also banned imports from more than a dozen Indian plants, mostly in the pharmaceutical industry.

The United States and India have long antagonized each other in global trade talks. Their fight over agricultural protectionism ultimately caused the Doha Round of international trade negotiations to collapse in 2008. Since then, the two countries have been unable to bridge their ideological divide. The estrangement is so great that India has been excluded from one of Obama’s most ambitious trade initiatives in Asia: the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Washington and New Delhi must now prevent the inevitable trade disputes from overwhelming the political and military cooperation that binds the two countries together.

Obama and Modi will have no choice but to rebuild their economic ties brick by brick. When they meet in Washington, they should focus first on setting a 2015 deadline for completing the two countries’ bilateral investment treaty, which the United States and India have been negotiating for more than a decade. Obama should also encourage Modi to undertake the necessary trade and financial liberalization that would help India gain acceptance into the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, a regional trade group that has denied New Delhi membership for over two decades because the member states consider Indian trade policies to be too protectionist. Support from the United States could help Modi distance his new government from the statist policies of his predecessors.

To encourage Modi to further boost confidence in India’s economy, Obama should counsel Modi to enact clearer regulations governing taxation and foreign investment. The two leaders could also announce a high-priority effort to resurrect the moribund civil nuclear deal. Modi would need to exercise his considerable political muscle to push a revision of the law through a reluctant Indian Parliament, but doing so would address a major American complaint: that after the Bush administration’s Herculean effort to lift nuclear sanctions on India, New Delhi never reciprocated by actually implementing the agreement and opening up its market to U.S. firms.

GANG OF TWO

As a second step, the United States and India should continue to strengthen their defense and political coordination in the Asia-Pacific region. India’s greatest national security concern is its competition with China for regional military dominance: when U.S. officials visit Indian government offices these days, their counterparts invariably rank China as a greater long-term concern than Pakistan. Modi has already begun to build a close relationship with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. The United States should welcome stronger Indian-Japanese defense coordination, since it would further the U.S. goal of strengthening its regional security network of Asian democracies as China expands its own power base.

India will be a more reliable and trusting partner than Pakistan has ever been.
More broadly, Washington and New Delhi should enhance their already robust collaboration on defense. The United States has conducted more military exercises with India than with any other nation in recent years, but the two can do even more to fortify their growing air and naval cooperation. For instance, Obama could make India a more prominent part of the pivot to Asia by including its forces in all the military training and exercises the United States conducts in the region. The United States should also continue its trilateral security talks with India and Japan, and the three countries should work through the East Asia Summit to align their counterterrorism and maritime security policies more closely. Above all, the United States and India must agree on a clear strategic plan to cement their military and political cooperation in Asia.

Even as the United States and India tighten their military ties, Obama and Modi must be careful to avoid creating the appearance of an anti-China coalition; looking for common ground on other issues with Beijing would help this cause. Washington and New Delhi could, for example, advance joint programs with Beijing to combat piracy, drugs, and crime, as Clinton suggested in 2011. When it comes to China, Obama and Modi must achieve a delicate balance between cooperation and competition, and they should do what they can to reassure Beijing. But they should also recognize that the most effective way to keep the peace in Asia is to maintain their countries’ military strength in the region.

As a third priority, Obama should strengthen U.S. cooperation with India on counterterrorism and homeland security -- areas in which U.S. and Indian interests align particularly closely, especially due to the insidious growth in the last decade of terrorist groups based in Pakistan, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba. The United States should support India’s determined efforts to combat the Naxalite insurgency, a violent Maoist movement active in more than half of India’s states. The two governments will also want to collaborate even more closely on cyber- and missile defense. Given that India is home to one of the world’s largest Muslim populations, the Modi government wants to consult more closely with the United States on the rise of extremism in Syria and Iraq and the potential danger to India’s large population of workers in the Middle East.

Fourth, Obama and Modi should work together to promote stability in India’s South Asian neighborhood, an area the prime minister has already signaled is a priority. Obama should support Modi’s efforts to push the Sri Lankan government on its lamentable human rights situation, guard against Islamic extremism in Bangladesh, and promote greater political stability in Nepal.

Their most important regional project, however, should be Afghanistan. India is currently the fifth-largest provider of economic assistance to Afghanistan, and Indian firms have been active in rebuilding the country’s infrastructure. In the past, the Bush and Obama administrations tried to limit India’s involvement in Afghanistan out of deference to Pakistani opposition. But with the bulk of U.S. forces set to withdraw from Afghanistan by the end of 2016, the United States should encourage India to become a leading partner of the newly elected Afghan government, including taking on an active role in training the Afghan army. Washington should also reach out to Indian officials to include them more actively in its long-term planning to stabilize a shaky Afghanistan.

Stability in South Asia will continue to depend, first and foremost, on the always troubled Indian-Pakistani relationship. Obama should support efforts by the Indian and Pakistani governments to commit to greater cross-border trade. India will continue to resist, unfortunately, any overt attempt by the United States or others to mediate between India and Pakistan over Kashmir.

The Obama team should also reaffirm Rice’s policy of “dehyphenating” the U.S. relationship with India and Pakistan. For decades, successive U.S. administrations treated India and Pakistan policy as a single unit. But Rice did away with that in 2005 by pursuing independent and quite different policies with the two countries. That permitted the Bush administration to initiate the civil nuclear agreement, for example, without feeling obligated to negotiate an identical deal with Pakistan. (That would have been impossible, of course, given Pakistan’s disastrous record on proliferation of its nuclear materials.) Although the United States needs to maintain an effective relationship with Pakistan, building a more durable partnership with India will bring much greater strategic benefit in the long term.

Finally, the United States and India must find a way to work together more effectively on leading global political challenges. U.S. officials have long felt frustrated by the fact that although the two countries have a close bilateral friendship, they are more often than not sparring partners at the United Nations and in other multilateral bodies. Obama and Modi can change that dynamic by looking for common ground this year on two big challenges: climate change and Iran, two issues on which India has been a historically weak partner to the United States. This will not be quick or easy. For nearly its entire existence as an independent country, India has been a proud and insistent advocate of nonalignment and of resisting what its diplomats often view as overbearing pressure to conform to U.S. policies. It is not even clear that the pragmatic Modi, with everything else on his plate, will want to take on the Indian bureauc-racy to revise decades of Indian foreign policy. But the two governments ought to be able to work more effectively to curb climate change and pressure Iran over its nuclear program.

THE PATH AHEAD

As Washington and New Delhi work more closely together, each will have its own hurdle to overcome. Indian leaders, for their part, must meet the United States halfway on trade. If India continues to oppose meaningful global trade liberalization, the two countries will remain fundamentally at odds. Indian officials should understand that U.S. trade complaints against New Delhi are not part of a politically driven campaign to weaken their country, as they sometimes allege. Obama can point to the vigorous trade wars between the United States and Canada and between the United States and the European Union as evidence that Washington aggressively contests the trade policies of even its strongest allies.

The United States will have its own challenge in learning to work effectively with India, and that is to recognize the unique nature of this great-power relationship. The United States has no other partnership quite like it. India is too big and too proud to become a formal treaty ally of the United States, as Germany and Japan are. India will insist, for instance, on retaining its strong military ties to Russia and continuing its trade with Iran. The United States is accustomed to calling the shots with its allies in Europe and East Asia. That won’t work with India, which will insist on equal standing with United States. To be effective in dealing with New Delhi, American diplomats must therefore pay special attention to Indian sensitivities, maintaining a realistic sense of what is and what is not possible with modern India.

This enhanced partnership will not be warmly welcomed in Pakistan or China. But the United States can manage whatever resentment results: India will likely be a more reliable and trusting partner than Pakistan has ever been, and a stronger military link to India will also send a useful and important message to Beijing -- that the democratic countries of the region will remain strong and united.

Luckily, Washington’s renewed emphasis on India should not be a hard sell in the United States. Obama can count on enthusiastic backing from the growing and highly successful Indian American community. The American and Indian publics consistently support the relationship in opinion polls. Most important, perhaps, Obama can also rely on one advantage he does not enjoy on nearly any other major foreign policy issue: bipartisan support. Bill Clinton, Bush, and Obama have co-authored the rise of U.S.-Indian ties over the last 15 years. This rare Democratic-Republican consensus that the United States ought to pivot its attention to New Delhi should allow India to remain at the forefront of U.S. strategy in Asia for decades to come.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32402
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

^^^^

The author has remained true to his white skin and demonstrated his utter disregard for our own brown skins

The main facts have been slyly glossed over, events selectively quoted and a one sided POV has been projected without the least bit of shame and without touching upon the most important facts responsible for the current imbroglio and wanton amreki perfidy has been glibly whitewashed.

The Indian parliament has in it's wisdom articulated the will of the people and the nuke deal has rightly been stalled given the past amreki big corporations' history and their willful neglect of third world sensibilities and obligations after a disaster especially in India.

They really expect Modi to expend his national goodwill in a fruitless amendment of the nuke liability bill just to accommodate a few amreki corporations?? A truly rapacious argument serving a narrow self interest that has always characterized this "great" nation and made them the international pariahs that they have become
CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

ChetakJi, see his glossing over their support to TSPA as well.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Burns needs a fire lit up his nether end.It is the patronising attitude of the white man,"God is an Englishman/American",who is totally unwilling to understand the policies and needs of other nations and races,that beggars the imagination and outrages the mind. Had India been ruled by a dictator,we would've seen a large bunch of Yanquis dumped into the "Black hole of Bhopal",Union Carbide's carcinogenic factory and sumps,never to be released until arch murderer warren Anderson was extradited.For any Indian leader to dilute the N-liability Bill to "ease America's pain" and allowing it to abdicate any responsibility for a devastating accident far worse than Bhopal,Fukushima for instance,would be tantamount to treason.
member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by member_22872 »

From the rape capital of the world :
victims of sexual violence in the U.S. military
KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4832
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by KLNMurthy »

CRamS wrote:ChetakJi, see his glossing over their support to TSPA as well.
It is a very paki list of what India must do, with zero concrete reciprocal steps from the US side.

Burns is also making the standard American and DIE mistake of imagining that Modi will be the idelogical. "Opposite" of UPA, and thus an equivalent of US neocons / neoliberals in foreign and domestic policy. Thus the frequent berating of Modi for "blunders" by both groups.

But Modi has made it clear time again in the campaign as well as in post-election statements that both foreign and domestic policy are the product of consensus and that he is committed to continuity and evolution. The Modi difference is that there will be a clear-eyed and efficient execution of the policy and there will be a gradual shift away from culture of dependency. He is not going to treat the bureaucracy as the enemy, he views them as valued team members unlike Manmohan Singh who probably had some insecurities about his former colleagues.

Burns is a fool to imagine that Modi will emulate US Republicans in becoming a doctrinaire enemy of regulation and will be interested in steamrolling a repeal of the nuclear liability law. If Obama's team thinks anything like Burns, the summit will yield bupkis.
Kati
BRFite
Posts: 1851
Joined: 27 Jun 1999 11:31
Location: The planet Earth

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Kati »

Again biased reporting from NPR...
http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014 ... as-arrived

What is important is to see the transformation of NPR from a truly unbiased media outlet to
one that now toes the State Dept. line word by word. ....And this transformation happened after 9-11.
As a regular listener to NPR for the last 25 years this transformation is really striking....
Yayavar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4832
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 10:55

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Yayavar »

^^the most blatant depiction of bias ie. towing government's line is the word 'nuclear'. When Dubya was the president, many journalists including on NPR, started pronouncing it as 'nucular' (sound 'new killer' to me); and now most say 'nuclear' that Ombaba is at the helm.
UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Burns' only legacy is his "help" in making the nyookular deal pass. So he will sound increasingly desperate as the scam aspects of that fail to bear fruit for the scammers.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

The SC has exposed the sordid details of the Coal scam.The truth will out about the other hidden scams of the UPA/Cong and the shameful deceit and chicanery of Scamster Singh,the head of the most corrupt regime ever seen in Indian politics.

US secret mil. ops.
https://learni.st/users/jacobrwheeler/b ... mpaign=bbt
Last edited by Philip on 28 Aug 2014 01:29, edited 1 time in total.
UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Thank our dear heroes the Free Market/ Free Press Republicans. They tried so hard to axe NPR that now NPR's life hangs ENTIRELY on the pleasure of the WHOTUS.
NPR get tied up to BHOTUS..
He gives the world
Its saddest sound
Its saddest sound
- with apologies to Simon & Garfunkel, "El Condor Pasa"

So their naturally obnoxious leftist nature now has no internal competition.
svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

Image

Photo: Someone made a map of how Americans see the rest of the world and it's awesome! India is a landmass called 'call centre', by the way
Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10395
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Yagnasri »

Surprised though that pakiland was not part of axis of evil.
Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

The neu york times chimes in on matters of relijion.
sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6116
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by sanjaykumar »

I think perhaps New York Times needs to expound on the contrasts with Officer Wilson's religion.


Or perhaps with this religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjB61sfhojo
anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1922
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

The Modi-Obama Summit: A Leadership Moment for India and the U.S
August 27th, 2014


Even before he came to office, Prime Minister Narendra Modi called India and the U.S. “natural allies,” stating: “It is in the interest of both the nations to develop further on our relationship.” President Barack Obama, in turn, has outlined the task ahead for both leaderships: to work together “to fulfill the extraordinary promise of the U.S.-India strategic partnership.” As the two leaders prepare to meet in Washington in September, the Brookings India Initiative, which consists of the Brookings India center in New Delhi and the India Project at Brookings in Washington, decided to highlight some areas of promise in the partnership and suggest ways to translate those opportunities into outcomes.
Taking advantage of the breadth of expertise available at Brookings and reflecting the interest in India among its scholars, this policy brief contains 28 memos by over two dozen Brookings scholars. We divided these memos into three sections. The overview section offers an overall perspective each from Washington and New Delhi on the India-U.S. relationship. The “scene-setter” memos offer glimpses of how India and the U.S. view some crucial foreign policy issues, their inclusion reflecting the fact that each country’s perceptions and actions vis-à-vis third countries will have implications for the other, as well as for the India-U.S. relationship. The third section covers a range of issues on which India and the U.S. are or could be cooperating, including in the foreign, security, economic, energy, and social policy realms.
Brookings does not take institutional positions on policy issues and each memo in this policy brief solely reflects the views of the Brookings scholar(s) who authored it.
We are very grateful to the Brookings India Initiative Founders Circle for their generous support of Brookings work on and in India. Brookings recognizes that the value it provides to any supporter is in its commitment to quality, independence, and impact. Activities supported by its donors reflect this commitment and scholars’ analyses and recommendations are not determined by any donation.


Overview

1 India-U.S. Relations: The View from Washington - Tanvi Madan & Strobe Talbott

2 India-U.S. Relations: The View from New Delhi - W.P.S. Sidhu

Scene-setters

3 India’s Foreign Policy Priorities and India-U.S. Relations - W.P.S. Sidhu

4 U.S. Policy: Balancing in Asia, and Rebalancing to Asia - Jeffrey A. Bader

5 Prime Minister Abe’s Campaign to Strengthen Japan - Richard Bush & Mireya Solís

6 U.S. Policy in the Middle East - Martin Indyk

7 U.S. Policy toward Iran and the Implications for India - Suzanne Maloney

8 The European Union and India - Javier Solana

The India-US Relationship: From Potential to Results

9 India-U.S. Counterterrorism Cooperation - Bruce Riedel

10 Delhi, Washington Should Build on Progress in Afghanistan - Michael E. O’Hanlon

11 India, Pakistan, and the United States - Teresita C. Schaffer

12 Defense Ties between India and the U.S - Stephen P. Cohen

13 Counterproliferation: A Shared Objective for India and the U.S - Robert J. Einhorn

14 Re-energizing India-U.S. Civil Nuclear Cooperation - W.P.S. Sidhu

15 India, the U.S., and Internet Governance - Ian Wallace

16 Growing the India- U.S. Trade and Investment Relationship - Joshua Meltzer

17 India-U.S. Economic Ties: Reframing a Mutually Beneficial Relationship - Eswar S. Prasad

18 Moving Beyond the Immigration Sticking Point in the India-U.S. Relationship - Neil Ruiz

19 Intellectual Property Rights: An Eminent Domain Approach for India and the U.S - Subir Gokarn

20 Global Economic Development: A Common Interest for India and the U.S - Homi Kharas

21 Energy: A Solid Pillar upon which to Build India-U.S. Relations - Vikram Singh Mehta

22 Indian Energy Market Development: Opportunities for Collaboration with the U.S - Charles K. Ebinger & Tim Boersma

23 India-U.S. Energy Cooperation: Moving to Green, Clean and Smart - Rahul Tongia

24 Climate Change – An Opportunity for India-U.S. Cooperation - William J. Antholis

25 Strengthening India-U.S. Relations through Higher Education - Shamika Ravi

26 Strategic Opportunities for Advancing Healthcare Reforms in India and the U.S - Kavita Patel

27 India and the International Order - Bruce Jones

28 India-U.S. Relations: Getting a Clearer Signal, with Less Noise - Tanvi Madan
anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1922
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

India-U.S. Relations: The View from Washington
brookings.in | Aug 27th 2014, Tanvi Madan Strobe Talbott

The first time an Indian prime minister met with an American president—Jawaharlal Nehru and Harry Truman in 1949—there were two items on the agenda: Kashmir and China. In the years that followed, India-U.S. relations waxed and waned, with more phases of the latter than the former. Fortunately, thanks to efforts by successive governments in New Delhi and Washington over the past two decades, the two democracies have left the days of estrangement behind and have moved to a phase of more consistent engagement. When Prime Minister Modi and President Obama meet in September, they will have a crowded and diverse agenda. The Table of Contents of this policy brief, with memos by our Brookings colleagues in New Delhi and Washington, makes clear why: the sheer breadth of the India-U.S. relationship. It involves more bilateral interaction than ever before—not just at the federal government level, but also at the state and local government levels, as well as between the two countries’ militaries, private sectors and civil societies, and their citizens. And it has taken on global significance with the emergence of India as a key member of the G-20 and the BRICS.

The Obama administration sees the recent election of the majority government in India led by Prime Minister Modi as an opportunity to take the relationship to the next level. The American president would like to see the “strong, developed, and inclusive India that actively engages with the global community” that Prime Minister Modi has promised. The administration has repeatedly asserted that even though India and the U.S. will not always agree, India’s rise is unquestionably a net positive for the prospects for peace, progress, and prosperity in the 21st century.

This sentiment has support in many parts of the United States and across what are in other ways contentious party lines. In fact, the importance of strong ties with India is one of the few foreign policy issues about which one can make such an assertion. Many in the private sector also see India’s rise as an opportunity. There is hope that there will be a better business climate in India and that the new Indian government will tackle economic reforms that will, in turn, reinvigorate the Indian economy. Yet in government and business, there is also concern that some political and bureaucratic obstacles will prove insurmountable, and there are questions about whether Indian potential can be translated into performance. Nonetheless, in the United States, just as in India, there is hope that the Modi government can deliver.

There is also optimism in Washington that the overall India-U.S. relationship can be broadened, deepened, and re-energized. This is the reason for high-level U.S. engagement with and on India this summer, despite the number of other urgent foreign policy crises and issues that are demanding the Obama administration’s attention.

As the memos in this policy brief outline, there are opportunities for cooperation in fields ranging from economics to energy, climate change to cyber-governance, counterterrorism to counterproliferation, defense to development, health to higher education, and immigration to the international order. The two countries can also work together in identifying commonalities of interest in South Asia, particularly with regard to Afghanistan and Pakistan.

In the Asia-Pacific, Europe, and West Asia, there is a growing need for India and the U.S. to increase their understanding of each other’s interests and policies. As the Modi government assesses the foreign policy landscape and sets its own course, its perception of U.S. strategy will be a factor. Hence the “scene-setters” offered in this policy brief, which outline how the U.S. sees the Asia-Pacific, particularly China and Japan, and West Asia, particularly Iran. It also includes a glimpse of how the European Union, a partner to both India and the U.S. views its partnership with India—one that will have an impact on India-U.S. relations.

The memos also acknowledge the obstacles that lie ahead for the relationship—while exploring ways of managing or mitigating them.

The overarching challenge that lies ahead is translating the opportunities in the relationship into outcomes, the potential into performance and progress. This will require action on both sides; as the Hindi saying goes, taali ek haath se nahin bajti (you can’t applaud with one hand). It will also call for compromises, as well as patience with and understanding of the other side’s constraints. Finally, it will require giving each other the benefit of the doubt when things get tough, managing differences, and seeing each other as part of the solution and not just part of the problem—at the bilateral, regional, multilateral, and global levels.
India-U.S. Counterterrorism Cooperation
brookings.in | Aug 27th 2014, Bruce Riedel

There has been considerable improvement in India-U.S. counterterrorism cooperation since the Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT) attack on Mumbai in November 2008. Senior visits by security officials on both sides have become more frequent as has information sharing. India and the U.S. cooperated in the capture and interrogation of two of the planners of the 26/11 attack. The U.S. placed a bounty on LeT leader Hafiz Saeed for information leading to his arrest and this June the U.S. blamed LeT for the attack on India’s consulate in Herat, Afghanistan—an operation intended to upstage Prime Minister Modi’s swearing-in ceremony.

There are two areas where cooperation will need to be strengthened in the next few years. The first is Afghanistan. As NATO forces depart Afghanistan, it will be increasingly difficult to maintain intelligence capabilities there to collect information on Al Qaeda, LeT and other terror groups operating in Afghanistan and the border areas of Pakistan. India is already increasing its capabilities in Afghanistan and working closely with the Afghan government. The U.S. should support this cooperation and seek to work with India and Afghanistan.

The second is Pakistan. While Pakistan has taken a more robust stand against its own Taliban militancy this year, the army and the ISI remain closely linked to other terrorists groups, especially LeT. Counterterrorism cooperation with India should include robust intelligence exchange on Pakistan’s terrorist connections, particularly the ISI-LeT connection. Another LeT attack like Mumbai or Herat will provoke the most serious crisis in years between India and Pakistan—the more that can be done to prevent such a disaster, the better. Even if an attack cannot be foiled, the more information exchanged about Pakistani involvement with LeT, the more likely the U.S. will have credibility with New Delhi if a crisis occurs.

The United States should also consider a unilateral step: placing Pakistan on the State Department list of terrorist sponsor states. It certainly meets the criteria and has for decades. The first Bush administration seriously considered this step in 1992. Such a step would obviously have immense consequences for U.S.-Pakistan relations. A more limited step would be to target specific sanctions against individual Pakistani officials involved in supporting terrorism like members of ISI’s “S” branch that handles liaison with LeT, the Haqqani network, and others. A targeted counterterrorism sanctions move against specific Pakistani government officials would send a strong deterrent message to the Pakistani army and could be a warning shot before putting Pakistan on the terror patron state list.

Finally, there should be contingency planning between Washington and New Delhi about managing a future India-Pakistan crisis like the Kargil war or the 2001-2002 crisis. This would be intended to create dialogue about crisis management, not coordination about ganging up on Pakistan. It would be a prudent investment in planning for the worst.


Bruce Riedel is senior fellow and director of the Brookings Intelligence Project. His latest book is What We Won: America’s Secret War in Afghanistan, 1979-1989 (Brookings Institution Press, 2014).
India, Pakistan, and the United States
brookings.in | Aug 27th 2014

August 27th, 2014, Teresita C. Schaffer

By inviting the leaders of the other South Asian countries to attend his inauguration, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi sent a message of continuity and change. The continuity lies in India’s strategic commitment to maintaining primacy in the region. Every government of independent India has shared this determination; so did India’s imperial rulers. The change is primarily one of tone, but tone has a way of becoming substance. It adds up to a moment of opportunity for India, which the United States can encourage.

India has the biggest problems, and potentially the biggest opportunities, with Pakistan, the only country in the region with ambitions to be India’s strategic equal and the one that most resents India’s assertion of primacy. Historically, Pakistan has been India’s most contentious neighbor, and the opponent in almost all its wars. The off-again, on-again U.S. relationship with Pakistan has also been the most contentious issue in India-U.S. ties.

The opening of trade between India and Pakistan, initially proposed by Prime Minister Modi’s predecessors, presents his greatest opportunity. It plays to the strength of both Prime Minister Modi and Pakistan’s Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, two leaders with a strong pro-business orientation. Their initial encounter involved the kind of personal diplomacy—such as gifts of saris for each other’s mothers—that can help create chances.

But Prime Ministers Modi and Sharif face spoilers hostile to improved relations. They will need to move decisively and deftly to take advantage of this opportunity. Afghanistan’s future also weighs heavily on the India-Pakistan relationship. Indian policymakers have a dark view of Pakistan’s role in Afghanistan, and Prime Minister Modi’s advisers have in the past called for putting painful pressure on Pakistan to abandon its efforts to control the future Afghan government. The attack in May on India’s consulate in Herat, Afghanistan was a warning of what could go wrong; so were the border incidents between India and Pakistan in July.

A more fundamental problem is the internal turmoil currently facing Pakistan. India now has a strong government. For Pakistan, achieving a negotiating breakthrough, and especially implementing it, will be difficult while government-army relations are strained and dissident groups are mounting massive protests.

The United States does not have, and should not seek, a direct role in improving India-Pakistan relations. Strengthening U.S. business relations with both India and Pakistan, however, could open up possibilities for integrated trade expansion that could benefit all three countries and perhaps add some momentum to the proposed India-Pakistan trade opening.

The circumstances of the U.S. exit from Afghanistan and the magnitude of its role in Pakistan create another important vector for India-U.S. cooperation. Delhi and Washington, perhaps surprisingly, share an interest in the peace and governability of Afghanistan and Pakistan. This would be a good time to develop a serious India-U.S. policy dialogue about Pakistan, including a candid discussion of some of the more difficult problems, like terrorism. This would supplement the discussion on Afghanistan that is already taking place. Perhaps the successful India-U.S. dialogue on China can provide some inspiration on how to proceed.
Defense Ties between India and the U.S.
brookings.in | Aug 27th 2014

August 27th, 2014, Stephen P. Cohen

Current India-U.S. defense ties are a cross between apathy and hope on the U.S. side, while on India’s part they are a mixture of pride and wariness. Washington has paid sporadic attention to New Delhi when it was not distracted by the India-Pakistan conundrum, and India’s policy towards the U.S. has had a strong element of “waiting and seeing,” expecting Americans to make first-concessions because of past neglect. The bilateral defense dialogues that have stumbled have done so because of an absence of reflection and commitment on the American side and an absence of organizational leadership and coherence on the Indian side.

In the defense realm, in particular, Indian policy has also been bracketed by a long-held desire for defense autarky while avoiding entangling alliances, and a post-Cold War realization that closer defense ties with the U.S. could be beneficial.

The new Indian government will rethink the relationship, and may address its own bureaucratic paralysis, but both India and the U.S. are still unclear about what it means to have a meaningful defense and military relationship between friendly non-allies, especially when democratic politics compels transparency.

The recent and forthcoming visits by senior Indian and U.S. officials and fresh thinking in New Delhi potentially lend themselves to some new policies and revisiting old ones.

Four come to mind:

First, both countries should engage in a dialogue (first in a Track-II context) of what it means to be a friend, but not an ally. This will lead to questions regarding defense and military policies if there should be another regional crisis, e.g., one precipitated by the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan or possibly another terror attack against India or its facilities.

Second, India and the U.S. may be “natural allies” but what does this mean in an operational sense? The cliché makes it easy to evade hard thinking. The U.S. needs to examine the limits placed on the numbers and types of weapons and technology sold to India. Such limits are now mostly irrelevant, given the India-Pakistan nuclear standoff, but the Department of Energy, in particular, has problems with nuclear and dual-use technology. Similarly, the numerous India-U.S. military exercises could be used as a springboard for further discussions about long-term opportunities and threats, as well as to improve interoperability. The latter is very thin, largely because of Indian suspicions of a heavy U.S. hand.

Third, the Indian weapons acquisition system is badly fragmented—leading to arming without aiming. Prime Minister Modi needs to find a competent person to reform the baroque Ministry of Defence and the bloated service structure. The U.S. cannot fix the Indian system, but it can share more widely its expertise in defense planning and acquisition. This can increasingly be done through the private sector—although it is important to keep in mind that this will not guarantee large defense sales to India, where the U.S. already has a crucial and growing share of the pie. For its part, India will want to maintain the façade of diversity. However, American experience with incorporating European and other technologies into its defense establishment provides a useful point of departure—this diversity is also a major feature of the Indian defense establishment.

Finally, the U.S. should bring Indian defense personnel into its system to experience it, and to share India’s best practices. These do exist: India does well in producing more rumble for rupee in space and missile technology, for example. Indian space and nuclear experts believe they can help the U.S. develop missile and even reactor technology, and such offers should be taken seriously, with the U.S. adjusting its own technology restraint regimes to benefit from the high quality and low cost of sourcing from India.
Last edited by anmol on 28 Aug 2014 18:14, edited 1 time in total.
habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6919
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by habal »

Is Modi dying to make a successful summit with the chief sponsor of terrorist groups around the world ? That would show surprising amount of naiveté.
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5620
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by RoyG »

I don't see India going out of its way. If anything, the US is working overtime to repair the damage. We are in a good position today. Our land mass projects into the Indian Ocean and we are close to SE, E, and ME. We can play both the SCO and NATO.
saip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4231
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by saip »

Letter from New York: Why can’t Indian Americans be more Indian?

Link

Some of the comments prove the point he is trying to make.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59807
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Most of those experts are known India baiters. Its stupid of Brookings to rely on them to construct a better Indo-US policy.
For instance US should declare TSP as a terrorist state for their own reasons and not as an inducement to India!!! Shows how savvy Bruce Reidalzai is!! He is past his prime and should be retired with Uneven Cohen.
And the there is Teresita maam. Again an non-performer casting big shadow.

Again to quote Geroge Mason Uty Prof "An Alliance lasts as long as the purpose for which it is formed lasts!"

Using that maxim look at the gamut of Ind-US relations.
What we are seeing is the end of Cold War (1988) after ~30 years and still no sense as same old tired rascals are advising the US.
What India needs to see all those WWI->WWII-> Cold War alliances dissolve and start afresh.
Let the new millennium being with new ideas.
anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1922
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

Why This Woman Is Facing Decades In Prison For Going To The Hospital
by Tara Culp-Ressler, thinkprogress.org
August 27th 2014 3:00 PM

Image

"Why This Woman Is Facing Decades In Prison For Going To The Hospital"

A 33-year-old woman from Indiana faces decades in prison after she sought medical attention at a hospital as she was bleeding from a premature delivery. The case is just the latest example illustrating the real-world consequences of the harsh state laws that essentially criminalize pregnancy.

According to the charges being filed against her, Purvi Patel attempted to end her pregnancy last year by taking pills that she bought online from Hong Kong. The pills didn’t work, and Patel eventually delivered a premature baby at home. When she went to an emergency room to seek treatment after giving birth, the staff asked why she didn’t have an infant with her. She said her baby appeared to be dead, and she had wrapped it in a bag and placed it in a dumpster.

Now, Patel is being charged with both neglect and feticide, allegations that actually conflict with each other. She was initially charged with “neglect of a dependent” after prosecutors learned she left her baby in in a dumpster, a charge that won’t apply if the baby was already dead. But she’s now also being charged with “fetal murder of an unborn child” — a charge that an Indiana judge allowed to stand this week — for taking drugs that could have illegally ended her pregnancy.

As the Daily Beast’s Sally Kohn points out, the logic doesn’t exactly hold up. “The State of Indiana intends to convict and incarcerate Purvi Patel one way or another, whether the fetus she delivered was alive or not — never mind the fact that the facts necessary for filing the one charge (that the fetus have been alive) entirely contradict the facts necessary for filing the other (that the fetus have been dead) and vice versa,” Kohn writes.

On top of that, reproductive rights advocates and legal experts point out that Indiana’s “feticide” law was never intended to be applied to pregnant women themselves. It was originally written as a way to crack down on illegal abortion providers. Critics say Patel fits into a disturbing trend; similar “fetal homicide” laws are in place in at least 38 states, and they’re increasingly used to punish women who end up having miscarriages or stillbirths.

“Once again targeting a woman of color, prosecutors in Indiana are using this very sad situation to establish that intentional abortions as well as unintentional pregnancy losses should be punished as crimes,” Lynn Paltrow, the executive director of National Advocates for Pregnant Women, which tracks these cases closely, said in a recent statement about Patel’s case. “In the U.S., as a matter of constitutional law and human decency, no woman should be arrested for the outcome of her pregnancy.”

Patel is the second woman to be prosecuted under Indiana’s feticide law. The state also pressed charges against Bei Bei Shuai, a Chinese immigrant who attempted suicide while pregnant and ended up delivering a baby that didn’t survive. Shaui was imprisoned for more than a year before a plea deal was reached in April, and her case sparked international outrage. More than 100,000 people signed onto a petition demanding Shuai’s release and pointing out that “it is wrong to have a set of separate and unequal laws for pregnant women.”

The laws that allow states to arrest pregnant women for allegedly harming their fetuses actually end up undermining public health. Major medical groups like the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists oppose “feticide” laws because they ultimately deter women from seeking the medical attention they need.

Harsh restrictions on abortion, as well as unreasonably broad definitions of “fetal homicide,” have created a society in which all pregnant women are transformed into potential suspects in the eyes of the law. And since miscarriage and abortion are relatively common pregnancy experiences — and research has proven that women are going to end their pregnancies whether or not it’s legal — that means we’re also approaching a society in which desperate women may be too terrified to ask for health treatment. For instance, if Patel had known that she was at risk for being charged with fetal homicide, would she have thought twice about going to the emergency room? Would she have joined the millions of women around the world who die from botched abortions and risky childbirth?

“We cannot afford to deter a woman from seeking reproductive health care,” the Indiana Religious Coalition for Reproductive Justice pointed out in a statement released this week. “Those of us who are Christian know that when Jesus responded to the hemorrhaging woman there was no place for aggressive interrogation and punishment. It was all for healing.”
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12089
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

ramana wrote:Again to quote Geroge Mason Uty Prof "An Alliance lasts as long as the purpose for which it is formed lasts!"
The econ nobel laureate?
Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4852
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Neshant »

no wonder certain nato countries are trying to revive the theory of Russia as a threat to their existence.
member_22539
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2022
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by member_22539 »

anmol wrote:
Why This Woman Is Facing Decades In Prison For Going To The Hospital
by Tara Culp-Ressler, thinkprogress.org
August 27th 2014 3:00 PM

Image

"Why This Woman Is Facing Decades In Prison For Going To The Hospital"

A 33-year-old woman from Indiana faces decades in prison after she sought medical attention at a hospital as she was bleeding from a premature delivery. The case is just the latest example illustrating the real-world consequences of the harsh state laws that essentially criminalize pregnancy.

What are you trying to imply, that this was an injustice?

The woman was charged for the crime of illegally murdering her unborn child. What is the article trying to imply, that they must decriminalize a crime so that the criminal can get medical care? Should we decriminalize robbery, so a criminal shot by the police can get medical care next?

The woman left her dead child in a dumpster, is this the person you are trying to defend?

If this had been a girl child abandoned after birth, the left-liberal femnazis will be up in arms demanding justice and retribution. Is it okay if the child were abandoned to death before birth?

Or should we ignore her crimes just because she is Indian?
putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4668
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by putnanja »

Arun Menon wrote: What are you trying to imply, that this was an injustice?

The woman was charged for the crime of illegally murdering her unborn child. What is the article trying to imply, that they must decriminalize a crime so that the criminal can get medical care? Should we decriminalize robbery, so a criminal shot by the police can get medical care next?

The woman left her dead child in a dumpster, is this the person you are trying to defend?

If this had been a girl child abandoned after birth, the left-liberal femnazis will be up in arms demanding justice and retribution. Is it okay if the child were abandoned to death before birth?

Or should we ignore her crimes just because she is Indian?
It is the choice of the woman on whether she wants to carry the baby to completion or not. She has full control over it. In case of married/partner, the parents need to decide together. No one has to impose their morals on that. The baby can survive indendently after birth. anyone can take care of it and it can live. An unborn child is not the same as a child who has been born.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12089
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

Criminals shot by police do get medical care. So do captured injured fighting men. One never kills a person who surrenders and asks for mercy. IMHO, Warriors in the opposing camp not obeying orders to surrender - even if injured - are fair game.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 31 Aug 2014 10:23, edited 1 time in total.
Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

I have a request, can we keep the abortion debate out of this thread? America is malsi level backward when it comes to this issue. And in a forum where most posters are men, the board is not very well eqipped to handle this either.

My personal preference remains that the board stay ignorant of this issue rather than bring out the gory details. For those that are curious, Roe Vs Wade is a good search start, and the very best of luck to you understanding this issue.

Jm2np.
member_22539
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2022
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by member_22539 »

putnanja wrote:It is the choice of the woman on whether she wants to carry the baby to completion or not. She has full control over it. In case of married/partner, the parents need to decide together. No one has to impose their morals on that. The baby can survive indendently after birth. anyone can take care of it and it can live. An unborn child is not the same as a child who has been born.
That is YOUR definition and I do not subscribe by it. For me even an embryo has the same human rights that rest of humanity has. Abortion is murder and thats all there is to it. If parents can't kill their children out of the womb, what right do they have to kill them inside the womb. Is coming out of the womb the only definition of becoming human?

Such silly and arbitrary differentiation is only acceptable to hypocritical feminists (after-all the child could be female) and the brainwashed left-lib zombies who want to vomit this nonsense about choice every chance they get. What is the choice here, to murder or not to murder?

It appears, according to these femnazis, that children magically become humans after coming out of the womb and until then they are little more than a benign tumor or parasite or something.
member_22539
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2022
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by member_22539 »

matrimc wrote:Criminals shot by police do get medical care. So do captured injured fighting men. One never kills a person who surrenders and asks for mercy. IMHO, Warriors in the opposing camp not obeying orders to surrender - even if injured - are fair game.
Criminals who get medical care are then prosecuted and punished, just like this woman should be and thankfully will be. Also, we are not talking about soldiers of opposing camps fighting for the sake of their nation, we are talking about a murdering criminal here.
member_22539
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2022
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by member_22539 »

Shreeman wrote:I have a request, can we keep the abortion debate out of this thread? America is malsi level backward when it comes to this issue. And in a forum where most posters are men, the board is not very well eqipped to handle this either.

My personal preference remains that the board stay ignorant of this issue rather than bring out the gory details. For those that are curious, Roe Vs Wade is a good search start, and the very best of luck to you understanding this issue.

Jm2np.
I wasn't the one who posted that femnazi propaganda piece and polluted this thread. You should address this specifically to that person only.

Also, this is the last I will post on this matter in this thread. I am open to a debate in a relevant thread (if there is one), if that is required.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12089
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

Arun Menon wrote: Criminals who get medical care are then prosecuted and punished, just like this woman should be and thankfully will be.
Of course. If the punishment is execution then they would be have to be executed in the most humane way possible.
anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1922
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

Arun Menon wrote:What are you trying to imply, that this was an injustice?

The woman was charged for the crime of illegally murdering her unborn child. What is the article trying to imply, that they must decriminalize a crime so that the criminal can get medical care? Should we decriminalize robbery, so a criminal shot by the police can get medical care next?

The woman left her dead child in a dumpster, is this the person you are trying to defend?

If this had been a girl child abandoned after birth, the left-liberal femnazis will be up in arms demanding justice and retribution. Is it okay if the child were abandoned to death before birth?

Or should we ignore her crimes just because she is Indian?
Arun Ji, I am neither left-liberal nor feminazi. But ever since Savita Halappanavar's death, I have same position on this as putnanja ji's. The issue with this case is:
Patel is the second woman to be prosecuted under Indiana’s feticide law. The state also pressed charges against Bei Bei Shuai, a Chinese immigrant who attempted suicide while pregnant and ended up delivering a baby that didn’t survive.
These laws are applied too often against black, brown and yellow women ('it's a Catholic thing' I guess).

To post this here was certainly a mistake in hindsight (sorry).... also my last post on this topic.
Ardeshir
BRFite
Posts: 1114
Joined: 15 Jan 2008 03:10
Location: Londonistan/Nukkad

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by Ardeshir »

Arun Menon wrote: That is YOUR definition and I do not subscribe by it. For me even an embryo has the same human rights that rest of humanity has. Abortion is murder and thats all there is to it. If parents can't kill their children out of the womb, what right do they have to kill them inside the womb. Is coming out of the womb the only definition of becoming human?

Such silly and arbitrary differentiation is only acceptable to hypocritical feminists (after-all the child could be female) and the brainwashed left-lib zombies who want to vomit this nonsense about choice every chance they get. What is the choice here, to murder or not to murder?

It appears, according to these femnazis, that children magically become humans after coming out of the womb and until then they are little more than a benign tumor or parasite or something.
Unfortunately, you are arguing on the basis of emotion, not scientific facts.
Most states have a cut-off for abortion at about 24-weeks of pregnancy, due to general scientific consensus that up until that point, those lump of cells that form a fetus do not constitute a human. Even the cortex only starts forming around the 26th week, after which the fetus can begin to 'feel'. This is not a silly or arbitrary delineation, it's has basis in scientific facts.
vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4000
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Post by vera_k »

^^

That 24 week limit may need to change due to advances in medical care - more babies born at 23 weeks survive

As a practical matter, in countries known for repressive policies, Indian consulates or embassies should have an officer charged with protecting and promoting reproductive rights. Alongside surrogacy and infertility treatment there's probably enough services that can be promoted to get more patients to consider using Indian facilities.
Post Reply