India-US Relations : News and Discussion

[JE Menon]

^^premature hubris... India is not a loudmouth weakling without self-control, grasp over facts, or a solid grip on objectivity, in my opinion.

[member_28397]

India needs atleast 100 Agnis pointed with MIRV at china only then chinese
will understand India's point of view untill then treat them as they treat India,
thinking them as one of so called budhist legacy dharmic state is nonsense.
China is a natural enemy so does its terrorist puppy.

[pankajs]

I think beepul are missing the core philosophy of India's engagement with the outside world .... and how it is being leveraged by Modi as compared to MMS government. The core philosophy of India's engagement is described as *strategic autonomy*.

Under UPA/MMS that meant equi-distance from everyone where the distance part was emphasized. That made us an inward looking country. Under NDA/Modi it means equi-embrace of everyone (who can help with our goals) where the embrace part is emphasized. That makes us an outward looking country.

Poles apart in implementation but the same core philosophy. One needs to look at our external relationship in this context. We will welcome help that fits in with our core national interests no matter what country.

Given that thinking, I will bet that even Baki initiatives that fit into our overall architecture will be welcome with open arms by Modi sarkar what talk of US or China.

[KLNMurthy]

...

this opportunistic "leader" chose conversion to catholicism when conversion to protestantism would have better served him in the US?? Not usual for bobbyj to make such a glaring mistake, especially when the dedicated furtherance of his personal ambition is involved.

From wikipedia (demographics of Louisiana)

The largest denominations by number of adherents in 2000 were the Roman Catholic Church with 1,382,603; Southern Baptist Convention with 868,587; and the United Methodist Church with 160,153.[18]

[KLNMurthy]

Any US president from GOP will be comparatively better than a Dem President as for as India concerned. Yes GOP people will be supporting EJ activities etc, but Dems have a inherent hatred towards India. In fact Dems and SD as a whole is more comfortable with any Despotic ruler than any democatic nation particularly when such nation is not US dog like UK.

Maybe marginally better, as seen in short timeframe. Bush was one responsible for the famous visa ban.

US approach is fairly consistent across parties: carrot of singing praises, stick of human rights, caste, rape, etc., applied as needed in pursuit of goal of turning India into a client state, while neutralizing its independence in the short and medium term.

Perceived differences are like daily variations in stock market only.

[KLNMurthy]

I think beepul are missing the core philosophy of India's engagement with the outside world .... and how it is being leveraged by Modi as compared to MMS government. The core philosophy of India's engagement is described as *strategic autonomy*.

Under UPA/MMS that meant equi-distance from everyone where the distance part was emphasized. That made us an inward looking country. Under NDA/Modi it means equi-embrace of everyone (who can help with our goals) where the embrace part is emphasized. That makes us an outward looking country.

Poles apart in implementation but the same core philosophy. One needs to look at our external relationship in this context. We will welcome help that fits in with our core national interests no matter what country.

Given that thinking, I will bet that even Baki initiatives that fit into our overall architecture will be welcome with open arms by Modi sarkar what talk of US or China.

+1

Modi has shifted emphasis to "equally trying to influence everybody" from "equally trying to fight off everybody's influence."

[Cosmo_R]

^^premature hubris... India is not a loudmouth weakling without self-control, grasp over facts, or a solid grip on objectivity, in my opinion.

+1

[Sagar G]

India doesn't any more see USA as an equal partner, at best it's a fading power who can provide India with an edge over competition and some new tech. Even without their contribution India will get therr and also get ahead of them. USA has to be content with being a junior partner in any equation with India in future. It has to tuck it's tail and pretty much behave as an Indian vassal to get along with any partnership/relation.

+1

Aptly put but I would say that India doesn't see any kind of partner at all in USA. The only sphere where US finds any mention in Indian narrative is technology. At this point of time and pretty much in the next decade as well they will keep finding themselves in Indian narrative whenever technology comes up for discussion but with each passing year the reference to them is going to go down drop by drop till they become absolutely inconsequential for India. Other than technology USA has got nothing, absolutely nothing to offer to India and that's why all this BS from them about JV, shared this and that and other rubbish that an average American dishes out. They recognize their march towards oblivion in the Indian narrative post achievement of technological parity by India and that's why the current bonhomie by the nation of two faced people. Fun times till 2030, post that it will be very interesting to see how USA survives in the Indian narrative.

[Hari Seldon]

Just like a good paki == dead paki, a good indo-unkil relationship is == transactional relationship only.

[svinayak]

Modi has shifted emphasis to "equally trying to influence everybody" from "equally trying to fight off everybody's influence."

During the cold war the super powers used the Indian culture and Indian mass appeal to get worldwide support. Indian elite and Indian leadership did not convert that advantage for critical Indian interest
Now Modi govt is using Indian mass appeal and strength of Indian historical capital for Indian interest and Indian state

[pankajs]

... on an arm of US foreign policy establishment

Ernst Wolff ‏@wolff_ernst 12m12 minutes ago

@sgurumurthy World's leading experts at promoting hunger, poverty & social inequality: the IMF.

[KLNMurthy]

Modi has shifted emphasis to "equally trying to influence everybody" from "equally trying to fight off everybody's influence."

During the cold war the super powers used the Indian culture and Indian mass appeal to get worldwide support.
...

How did they do that?

[svinayak]

Modi has shifted emphasis to "equally trying to influence everybody" from "equally trying to fight off everybody's influence."

During the cold war the super powers used the Indian culture and Indian mass appeal to get worldwide support.
...

How did they do that?

That is a separate topic and it is complex. Topics on cultural war will give some details.
But Uncle govt used it for global mass appeal and pivoting US to global power.

This book may be useful for reading on this topic -
The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters Paperback –
by Frances Stonor Saunders (Author)

THe future of Uncle FP is what is the next phase and it may pivot to a EJ phase.

[Bade]

Ashley Tellis in Hindustan times.
US and India should collaborate to counter China in the Indian Ocean

Ever since the conclusion of the India-US nuclear deal, policymakers have wondered what the next “big idea” in transforming bilateral ties might be. Though no successor initiative could ever replicate that accord, there exists an opportunity that holds the promise of making new waves in bilateral collaboration if only Washington and New Delhi are imaginative enough to grasp it: jointly developing India’s next-generation aircraft carrier.

http://carnegieendowment.org/files/making_waves.pdf

This is the more detailed document and worth reading in full as it becomes clear where the road-blocks will very likely be for such a deep cooperation.

[Shreeman]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... indian-man

former Alabama police officer pleaded not guilty on Tuesday to a federal charge of violating the rights of an Indian grandfather injured during a violent confrontation earlier this year.

Eric Sloan Parker, 26, entered a plea of not guilty during a brief appearance before US magistrate judge Harwell G Davis III, court records showed.

Parker, who was accompanied by his lawyer, is free on $5,000 bond. His trial is set for 1 June, although it could be delayed.

[schinnas]

chinese ruthlessness is more due to communism. this is a product incubated in europe. (product of christianity- which made it reject the religion due to its excesses in europe)This is wreaking havoc in china. christianity makes a comeback in places with communism.
chinese never had problems with India as long as there was no communism. Buddhist china was never a threat for India.

I dont believe usa is open to dharmic thoughts at least not now. abrahamic thoughts prevent it from doing so.
bedrock of usa(deepstate) despite its supposed claims of secularims is judeochristianity. never to forget it.

From my experience, I would differ. I have spent a very long time in US and spent some part of it in interacting with spiritually inclined people and I also used to teach meditation and yoga during my free time. I find Americans to be more open to genuine spirituality than most other nationalities. It is not for nothing that Indian sages from Paramahamsa Yogananda to Swami Vivekananda to Paramhamsa Yogananda to Sri Aurobindo (he didnt visit US but written about potential India - US cultural partnership and his Integral philosophy in part provides a synthesis of Eastern and Western worldviews) recent Gurus such as Sri Sri or Jaggi Vasudev spend lot of effort and energy in US. If you crack open the outer layers, US culture is defined by a thirst for freedom and search for Truth. Indian civilization can be summed up as pivoted around the search for and expression of that Truth through. the mechanisms of search for Truth (inner & subjective vs outer and objective) may vary but there is lot more genuine possibility for true partnership between Indian and US cultures.

On the other hand, Cheen as a population and culture are extremely attuned to their racial worldview and are ruthless. Their civilization is not characterized by search for truth but for search for wellbeing / prosperity / power. We can develop fascination with Cheen and indulge in hindi-chini bhai bhai until the chinaman digs a grave and pushes us into that with a smiling face. Any similarities we have with Chinese are superficial. On the other hand, differences with US are superficial. Xtian right is a dying breed in USA. Most of their churches in most metro areas do not have any young audience and are faced with dwindling support base. Many in US are steadily moving towards spiritual paths shedding religious baggage. Sometimes I wish India loses its fascination with religion and orients towards Spirituality which is its true essence.

[svenkat]

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/obama-sends-chadar-of-peace-to-ajmer-dargah/

A red and green ‘chadar’ offered by the United States Embassy on behalf of US President Barack Obama and the people of the country was presented at the Dargah Ajmer Sharif on Monday morning with a message of ‘deepest friendship’ and ‘peace’.
The ‘chadar’ was presented by Haji Syed Salman Chishty, Gaddi Nashin and Director of the Chishty Foundation. “I was in Washington DC ten days back and the idea came up then. This is the first occasion when such an offering has been made by the US,” Chishty told the Indian Express. “The US Ambassador Richard Verma handed over the chadar to me in New Delhi last week and I presented it here this morning at 11 am on the occasion of the 803rd Urs.”

According to an official statement from the Dargah, the message from Verma read, “On behalf of the United States government, I convey greetings of deepest friendship and respect to the community of Dargah Ajmer Sharif and the people of Ajmer. On this day, the 803rd Annual Urs of Hazrat Khawaja Moinudeen Hasan Chishty, our thoughts are with the community in Ajmer and we give thanks for the work of the Dargah Ajmer Sharif and its legacy of striving for understanding, peace, and respect between all faiths and peoples of the world.”
It further added, “As President Obama has said: ‘Whatever our beliefs, whatever our traditions, we must seek to be instruments of peace, and bringing light where there is darkness, and sowing love where there is hatred’.”

Verma commended the Dargah Ajmer Sharif for its ‘commitment to these noble goals’ and conveyed the ‘goodwill of the American people and partnership of the U.S. Embassy in your work to make this world a better place.’

[svenkat]

[habal]

From my experience, I would differ. I have spent a very long time in US and spent some part of it in interacting with spiritually inclined people and I also used to teach meditation and yoga during my free time. I find Americans to be more open to genuine spirituality than most other nationalities.

this is true, but this group has zero influence over policy making.

[Vayutuvan]

schinnas: Chinese people come in all shapes and sizes. At least that's my observation from a limited sample of Chinese living in the US.

[svinayak]

From my experience, I would differ. I have spent a very long time in US and spent some part of it in interacting with spiritually inclined people and I also used to teach meditation and yoga during my free time. I find Americans to be more open to genuine spirituality than most other nationalities.

this is true, but this group has zero influence over policy making.

Many Indians tend to be influenced by westerners who agree with them and have similar outlook.
But west has a complete different view of the east and India.

[Prem]

[url=http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... er-dargah/]A red and green ‘chadar’ offered by the United States Embassy on behalf of US President Barack Obama and the people of the country was presented at the Dargah Ajmer Sharif on Monday morning with a message of ‘deepest friendship’ and ‘peace’.

Next will be Eid dinner hosting and open dialogue with different muslims sects in India ?

[Gus]

I have a feeling china would turn out to be a bigger devil than usa. atleast there has been a good amt of migration into usa and we "understand" their deep state. our migration to cheen is 0 and their intentions very opaque.

we also know what buttons to push for murica, even if we have not pushed it right in the past.

[Bade]

On what basis are people spouting all this Indi-Chini bhai-bhai just cast in a different frock of spirituality, it is the biggest crock I keep hearing in this forum. Take what you can from the US and try to run alone in another 25-50 years maybe. It is too early to think of anything otherwise at this moment in our development. China has been doing this for the last 3 decades and we do not even want to give it a look because it hurts our sensibilities.

[Tuvaluan]

On what basis are people spouting all this Indi-Chini bhai-bhai just cast in a different frock of spirituality, it is the biggest crock I keep hearing in this forum.

It is not just people on the thread -- just check out what passes for thought in the Indian "think tanks" about China (or the US, for that matter), or a lot of the "right wing"er hindooos like the ones who write for Swarajya. Must be something in the water supply.

[ramana]

X-post....l

Take that joo Kufr. Pakisatan is the top nation which says religion plays an important role in their lives

Some thing to chew on is whether the data for US is true or is it imagination?

If the US were truly religious we won't see the imperial over-reach nor the internal race based violence.

If so how accurate is the data for others!!!

[Vayutuvan]

As China approaches Italy, India will approach France/Japan. My guess for current India is Bolivia's PPP but Chile's religiosity. FWIW.

[member_22733]

^^^ Urban India or rural India? Which state, which community. India is not monolithic enough for that graph.

[Prem]

X-post....l

Take that joo Kufr. Pakisatan is the top nation which says religion plays an important role in their lives
If the US were truly religious we won't see the imperial over-reach nor the internal race based violence.If so how accurate is the data for others!!!

But is this imperial reach and race based dogmatic problematic issues religion in purity Itself ? God gave the land, ordered genocide, slavery etc all started from Mouses, The Fire Douzat.

[Vayutuvan]

^^^ Urban India or rural India? Which state, which community. India is not monolithic enough for that graph.

GDP is across India - so are the averages for religiosity. Same should be true for the US.

[Philip]

The drone attack which killed to Western hostages in Af-Pak announced only now,is atragedy indeed.But compare the US's attitude to this tragic attack against the tens of thousands who have been killed in drone/air strikes over the decade+ of US/NATO mil involvement in Af-Pak,simply passed off as "collateral damage"! The Western media makes a mountain out of an incident like this,but simply ignores the deaths of innocents if they are foreign "untermenschen" of the "turd world".

[Amber G.]

OTOH ... just one example...

Remember Ilyas Kashmiri... one of the mastermind of the mumbai's 26/11 was killed by drone strike..


”Drone strikes have been proven as one of the most effective way".. NYtimes article.....
[/quote]

Drone Strikes Take Toll on Al Qaeda LeadershipD

Revelations of new high-level losses among Al Qaeda’s top leadership in Pakistan’s tribal belt have underscored how years of American drone strikes have diminished and dispersed the militant group’s upper ranks and forced them to cede prominence and influence to more aggressive offshoots in Yemen and Somalia.

While the C.I.A. drone strike that killed two Western hostages has led to intense criticism of the drone program and potentially a reassessment of it, the American successes over the years in targeting and killing senior Qaeda operatives in their home base has left the militant group’s leadership diminished and facing difficult choices, counterterrorism officials and analysts say.

<snip>
P
Even the death of Mr. Weinstein, a prized hostage whom Al Qaeda had long sought to exchange for prisoners or money, is emblematic of the state of siege. Whereas in Syria, the Islamic State has turned hostage execution into a macabre propaganda spectacle, Al Qaeda has seen any dividend from its captives snatched away, albeit inadvertently, by its American foes.

“Core Al Qaeda is a rump of its former self,” said an American counterterrorism official, in an assessment echoed by several European and Pakistani officials.

The Pakistanis estimate that Al Qaeda has lost 40 loyalists, of all ranks, to American drone strikes in the past six months – a higher toll than other sources have tracked but indicative of a broader trend. Now, they say, Qaeda commanders are moving back to the relative safety, and isolation, of locations they once fled, like the mountains of eastern Afghanistan, and Sudan.



President Obama’s disclosure that the C.I.A. killed four Americans in January – the two hostages, and two senior Qaeda leaders – offered a rare glimpse into the decade-old shadow war in Pakistan’s tribal borderlands, as well as hint of how difficult it remains to get information about Qaeda activities there. Although the strikes that killed Mr. Weinstein and Mr. Lo Porto occurred several months ago, Mr. Obama said he could confirm their deaths only recently.


... “The drones have left Al Qaeda in tatters,” said a Pakistani security official in Peshawar, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “They are in disarray, trying to reorganize but struggling to find people capable of leading the organization.”


The group had put hope for new leadership on Al Qaeda in the Indian Subcontinent, a local franchise begun in September by the Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri, ostensibly to counter Islamic State recruitment efforts.

The deputy leader of the group was Ahmed Farouq, who was apparently seen as a rising star in militant circles for some time. In a letter to Osama bin Laden in 2010, which recently became public through a terrorism trial in New York, a militant of the same name was singled out as having potential leadership potential. “A good man” wrote Atiyah Abd al Rahman, a senior Qaeda leader who was killed in a drone strike in 2011.

But the new unit’s ability to impose itself has been constrained by drone strikes that have killed at least five of its leaders, including Mr. Farouq, who officials say was an American citizen, and who is said to have died in the strike that killed the hostages.

As ever, though, new militants are emerging to fill the vacant places. Several American officials pointed to Farouq al-Qahtani al-Qatari, who is believed to be based in Kunar Province in eastern Afghanistan. One American official described him as “one of the most important remaining figures in the region.”

American officials said there was an upside to Qaeda operatives relocating to Afghanistan. The American military, despite its diminished presence in the country, still has far greater latitude to launch raids and strikes there than it does across the border. And the Afghan intelligence service and elite special operations forces are far more reliable allies than Pakistan’s spies.

Another militant who may figure on American kill lists is Mansoor al Harbi, a Saudi logistician who, the Pakistani official said, is currently based in the Shawal Valley.


For now, Qaeda’s top leadership will probably be preoccupied with its survival rather than plotting attacks ...{ That can only be good for India too}

[panduranghari]

^^^ Urban India or rural India? Which state, which community. India is not monolithic enough for that graph.

GDP is across India - so are the averages for religiosity. Same should be true for the US.

Indian GDP has NOT been accurately measured till date. The current numbers given for India do not constitute the whole of India. Though this is not for this thread, just on basis of numbers:

Household Savings in
India- 32% (discounting all gold)
USA- 1.5%

Amount of Indian savings in Indian stock Market - 7% of 32% ~ 2.25%
Amount of American savings in their stock market-excess of 95%

Take these numbers FWIW.

[Vayutuvan]

Are a few masterminds life worth 10s of thousands in collateral damage? I also don't understand shirking of responsibility by the US which is captured in the oft repeated phrase that we are not in the business of rebuilding nations. I would say if we broke it we better fix it. IOW go in only if we have the resources to rebuild after destroying a country/state.

The money that is being given to Pakistan, Egypt, and Turkey should actually go to improving Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Tuvaluan]

The "Al Qaeda" terrorists targeting India, a.k.a. ISI sponsored terror groups like LeT and JuD, will never be the target of US drones because they do not operate in Afghanisthan. So US targeting "al qaeda leadership" with drones has zero effect on Paki terrorism in India. Elementary things to understand if one is keeping up with the paki threads.

[Altair]

US seeks clarification from India on Ford Foundation issue
Press Trust of India | Washington Apr 25, 2015 02:28 AM IST

The United States today expressed concern over India's crackdown on Ford Foundation and Greenpeace,and said it is seeking "clarification" on the action.

"We are aware that the (Indian) Ministry of Home Affairs suspended the registration of Greenpeace India and has placed the Ford Foundation on a prior permission watch list," the State Department Deputy Acting Spokesperson, Marie Harf, told reporters at her daily news conference.

Wait for 2002 Post-Godhra disturbances case to be reopened through appropriate channel.
Read NDTV as the US Foggy Bottom Mouth piece in India.

[Amber G.]

Many drone strikes are not in Afghanistan but Pakistan (>500 in Pakistan).. Number of terrorists killed INSIDE Pakistan is more than 3000..and that includes scums like Ilyas Kashmiri of 26/11...

BTW, even the first cruise missiles for Osama, ended up killing Paki generals and such...

[Vayutuvan]

Amber G ji: I am talking about the bigger picture. Let us leave Pakistan-US two-step aside for the time being.

[Karthik S]

US seeks clarification from India on Ford Foundation issue
Press Trust of India | Washington Apr 25, 2015 02:28 AM IST

The United States today expressed concern over India's crackdown on Ford Foundation and Greenpeace,and said it is seeking "clarification" on the action.

"We are aware that the (Indian) Ministry of Home Affairs suspended the registration of Greenpeace India and has placed the Ford Foundation on a prior permission watch list," the State Department Deputy Acting Spokesperson, Marie Harf, told reporters at her daily news conference.

Wait for 2002 Post-Godhra disturbances case to be reopened through appropriate channel.
Read NDTV as the US Foggy Bottom Mouth piece in India.

Hope there are no U turns...

[Karthik S]

Indian GDP has NOT been accurately measured till date. The current numbers given for India do not constitute the whole of India. Though this is not for this thread, just on basis of numbers:

Household Savings in
India- 32% (discounting all gold)
USA- 1.5%

Amount of Indian savings in Indian stock Market - 7% of 32% ~ 2.25%
Amount of American savings in their stock market-excess of 95%

Take these numbers FWIW.

IIRC savings and investments are not taken into consideration while calculating the GDP.