India-US Relations : News and Discussion

saip · Post by **saip** » 14 Oct 2014 18:59

SBajwa:

She falsified information on the form to get a maid from India to USA which is PERJURY (felony). Then she did not paid the minimum wage.

Nothing is proven. Unless it is proven she is innocent.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 14 Oct 2014 19:13

we are all DKs in this regard. Such inhuman treatment will never ever be unleashed on a white diplomat, period

The problem is with Indian government

1. Pascal Mazurier
Pascal Mazurier, a French diplomat, was held by the police here on Thursday evening on charges of raping his three-and-half-year-old daughter. A deputy head of chancery in the Consulate of France here, the 39-year-old diplomat was let off on Friday under circumstances that are yet to be officially explained by the police.

He was detained on the basis of a complaint filed on Thursday by his wife, Suja Jones Mazurier (37), a native of Kerala. Ms. Mazurier's complaint was accompanied by a medical report from the Collaborative Child Response Unit (CCRU) of the Baptist Hospital here. The report said she bore tell-tale marks of sexual abuse and traces of semen. Ms. Mazurier's complaint also alleged that this was not the first time the child had been abused by the father.

The police, however, refused to register an FIR against the diplomat and demanded “clinching evidence” that the act was committed by him, alleged Geetha Menon, lawyer representing the victim. Finally on Friday noon, the FIR was registered under Section 376 of the IPC at the High Grounds police station.

2. Italian Sailors killing fishermen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrica_Lexie_incident

3. Purulia Arms drop case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purulia_arms_drop_case

4. Adnan Khashoggie 2011 money laundering case.

and thousands such cases involving foreigners committing crimes in India!

What are the Diplomats and GOI doing?

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 14 Oct 2014 20:42

I don't get how people still bring up the nonsense about DK being corrupt or her father being corrupt or whatever.
Even if DK had personally overseen the operations of the gas chambers at Aushwitz, how is it justifiable for the US to arrest and sexually assault a diplomat? This gungadeen mindset is just astonishing! There's a WSJ article about this interview and the vilest, most disgusting comments there are all posted by Indians themselves. What can a Modi or Doval do if the people are such Dhimmis and Gungadins?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 14 Oct 2014 20:48

Nandu wrote:^^I am sorry, but this Madhav Nalapat seems to be a conspiracy theory spinner. I would strongly advise against taking his word as truth without corroborating evidence.

I think he used to be called 'Monu' during the late 1990s and he is indeed prone to CT. I think some of his stuff still exists on Rediff so BRF members can judge for themselves.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 14 Oct 2014 20:51

Hnair wrote: Warning issued. Smt Khobragade's background entitles her certain constitutional privileges bestowed by people of India. You are not going to couche your biases under "NAMO ki jai" or "US laws are supreme"

Dear hnair, there was no need for a warning. Arnab asked the same question in so many words. I am some bit sympathetic to devyani but do not think that she is beyond criticism. Let's not be so sensitive.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 14 Oct 2014 21:07

SBajwa wrote:
How is Adarsh relevant to the diplomatic issue between US & India over her maid, or indeed to this thread ??? The fact is the US is in the wrong in this matter - lets not bring in extraneous issues.
She falsified information on the form to get a maid from India to USA which is PERJURY (felony). Then she did not paid the minimum wage. She needs to know that she cannot break law around the world (she is entitled to break the law due to her "DALIT" status as she (and her father) believe in India only., this right was given to her and her father by Nehruvian Congress. NAMO should get her out of the IFS so that she can unite with her husband and kids (who are US citizens) in USA.

It is because of the quota people like her that Indian diplomacy around the world is so BAD!!! NAMO should fix that!

As you think either perjury or wage theft are crimes that entitle a custodial rape, I offer you sworn testimony for either or both from the most respected institutions in the same country. Then show me, who in the government, law enforcement, or courts cares.

Wage theft is so rampant in america, in ALL jobs, that it puts India's child labor problem to shame. A court decision against somebody for wage theft leads to NO action whatsoever. Not allegations, actual jury judgment.

So take your wage theft and contrasct violation arguments elsewhere. They were NOT the reasons foir the DK incident.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 14 Oct 2014 21:36

Roperia wrote:I am some bit sympathetic to devyani but do not think that she is beyond criticism. Let's not be so sensitive.

The bolded part is a strawman, which anyways has no place in this thread on "India-US Relations"

The " Let's not be so sensitive" part. As an admin, I am hyper sensitive if someone whose background as a Dalit is being snidely targeted in this forum. I have already informally warned two above and yet SBajwa persisted.

Enough on this. Move on

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 14 Oct 2014 22:10

The fact that US modified its domestic laws and covered diplomatic staff under it, which resulted in targeting of Indian diplomats earlier as well is the main problem. DK, for all her faults or lack of it, was at the receiving end of this travesty.
The fact that Indian diplomats have been targeted by US is the issue here.
That what was done to her was diplomatically unacceptable, as was the treatment of previous diplomats.
She was the defacto consul general of NY consulate when this happened.
Requesting people to kindly focus on this issue.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 14 Oct 2014 22:20

K Mehta wrote:The fact that US modified its domestic laws and covered diplomatic staff under it, which resulted in targeting of Indian diplomats earlier as well is the main problem. DK, for all her faults or lack of it, was at the receiving end of this travesty.
The fact that Indian diplomats have been targeted by US is the issue here.
That what was done to her was diplomatically unacceptable, as was the treatment of previous diplomats.
She was the defacto consul general of NY consulate when this happened.
Requesting people to kindly focus on this issue.

With due respect "US applied its laws" is a red herring. The US laws, even now, do NOT work this way. And I openly challenge anyone to prove me that they do. We have tested them and they dont.

The posters claiming "US law" are spouting hot air for suppprting some silly personal preference. The US law is NOT the basis of the DK incident, nor should it be. For all its flaws, the actual courts remain more functional than any other US institution.

This is a political appointee. The equivalent would be the leader of a college student union being appointed to a law enforcement post. That wouldnt work, would it?

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 14 Oct 2014 22:54

shreeman,
there have been articles by Indian diplomats stating the labour laws modified in the state of new york being the main reason behind it. The fact is that this was not the first incident with Indian diplomats.
I am not stating US applied its laws. Please read my post.
edit: Domestic Worker's Bill of Rights
edit2:Consular officials feeling insecure and their families, vulnerable: Prabhu Dayal
please read this article. The author was one of the consular officials who was similarly treated.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 Oct 2014 23:43

US applies its laws selectively and whom it applies those laws on depends on where in the pecking order you belong in.

Dick Cheney shot someone in the face during a hunting expedition, no arrest, no charges no jack$hit. The dead man's family apologized for his face being in between Cheney's gun and whatever Cheney was shooting at. Not making this up. The law could have "applied" here, but it did not.

Brown folks are waaaay low in that scheme of things, which means if a law can be applied it will be applied. So if you are brown and your mayor candidate or your district attorney candidate says the following words: "If you elect me I will go strict on crime", I suggest you run from that place ASAP.

PS: I am surprised (and disgusted) how people (old and new) keep repeating the same old same old argument and showing their ignorance here. And this is BRF. Just makes me sad.

Added later: I also cannot understand the "lynch mob" like mentality on display. DK or her Dad has his/her name in this scam or that IN INDIA (not in the US). Does that give permission to the US to treat her, a representative of the Indian state, like they treat a homeless drug addict? Would the people scammed in India by her get justice because the US charged her (after institutional rape)? Argument like that would fit right in with a lynch mob's argument for lynching someone.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Oct 2014 00:06

hnair, Please issue warnings to all even those who got informal ones.

Thanks,

ramana

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 Oct 2014 00:29

Fox News Politics ‏@foxnewspolitics 3h3 hours ago

Feds warn of possible #ISIS-inspired attacks on police, government officials, media http://fxn.ws/1wAn1rO

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 15 Oct 2014 01:05

^^^ Folks in the US. ISIS == brown people. Be careful while dealing with cops (especially in traffic stops). They might see your wallet as a weapon. Interesting times ahead.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 15 Oct 2014 01:24

K Mehta wrote:shreeman,
there have been articles by Indian diplomats stating the labour laws modified in the state of new york being the main reason behind it. The fact is that this was not the first incident with Indian diplomats.
I am not stating US applied its laws. Please read my post.
edit: Domestic Worker's Bill of Rights
edit2:Consular officials feeling insecure and their families, vulnerable: Prabhu Dayal
please read this article. The author was one of the consular officials who was similarly treated.

Yes, I am well aware of this. Please do note that while both PD and DK were consular officers and subject to opportunistic litigation, PD was not harmed. There is no denying that the number of such cases (recall the recent settlement) is larger than the DK case.

However, PDs opinion doesnt change anything. A political appointee looking for a stepping stone overshot all bounds of human decency in the DK case. There is no comparison with anything else needed or appropriate.

Those trying to deny this or compare this to anything else do not expect themselves to be treated this way, if put in the same position. What is indefensible is indefensible for a reason other thgan "it also happened to X" or "thats how we roll".

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Oct 2014 02:38

WTO sides with US in Indian poultry fight

https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl=dN ... 4465a9ed8e

Will India destroy the WTO’s agricultural reforms?

India is a consequential participant in the global agricultural economy. In addition to having the world’s second largest population, it also has the second largest area of tillable land. Its subsidies lead to surpluses, which move into export channels. The country usually ranks first or second in rice exports and also finds overseas customers for wheat and sugar. As a result, farmers in other countries suffer from lower prices.

It would be nice to think that some blunt but quiet conversations between senior officials of India and other WTO countries would persuade India to bring its policies into compliance. However, the new Modi government has taken a strong stand on this issue and seems unlikely to change without meaningful pressure. Other countries should apply that pressure by bringing a WTO dispute settlement case against India’s agricultural subsidies.

Initiating dispute settlement would not only provide a stimulus for India to rethink its position, it would have the broader benefit of reaffirming the international community’s commitment to policy restraint enshrined in WTO agreements. An unwillingness to enforce the limits on agricultural subsidies risks losing those hard-won reforms for good.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 15 Oct 2014 07:44

ramanaji, done

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 15 Oct 2014 08:16

Singha wrote:Satya as head of much smaller azure cloud services convinced the huge office and windows businesses that cloud not bare metal was the future. He also convinced them to move from one release every 3yrs to yearly and plans are even lesser as cloud deployments demand much faster and agile tech upg feature cycles.

I think for these two miraculous feats he both secured msft future and got the CEO job.

What msft did 3 yrs ago netz is starting now. 10,000 sales ppl were flown to Vegas for a week and told the co would focus only on cloud centric solutions and software and days of standalone hw appliances were over...a tough call fr a co that rode to the top on back of custom hw.

GD, the lanbdscape has changed underneath microsoft. Its not just google, amazon, and apple that are makung enterprise inroads, open source solutions have become mature. Open source development platformns have become mature and the hardware dominance is going the blackberry way.

This does not take away anything from past achievements but the future is quiet uncertain. MS is trying $60 windows tablets and free OEM licenses (just barely short of HP fire sales) but in the end the product utility speaks for itself.

MS decline will be slower than Blackberry, but there is no bright spot on the horizon right now. In this context, MS could ill afford any further dasmage to its management structure and the satya story is already gone from the news.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 15 Oct 2014 10:15

Shreeman wrote: Wage theft is so rampant in america, in ALL jobs, that it puts India's child labor problem to shame. A court decision against somebody for wage theft leads to NO action whatsoever. Not allegations, actual jury judgment.

The only way I can see wage theft possible is when illegals are employed and paid off the record, otherwise it is not likely.

Of course you can substantiate your claim of "rampant wage theft in america" by furnishing some supporting links.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 15 Oct 2014 10:26

Dipanker wrote:
Shreeman wrote: Wage theft is so rampant in america, in ALL jobs, that it puts India's child labor problem to shame. A court decision against somebody for wage theft leads to NO action whatsoever. Not allegations, actual jury judgment.
The only way I can see wage theft possible is when illegals are employed and paid off the record, otherwise it is not likely.

Of course you can substantiate your claim of "rampant wage theft in america" by furnishing some supporting links.

From elsewhere on the forum:here, you go. The docket appears public.

And hundreds others chiming in here. Not for our benefit.

Why would I make something like this? I like america, and have no reason to hide its good or bad points.
If you had dealt with anything but tech. woirkers (where this theft occurs differently), you would not question this either.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 15 Oct 2014 10:31

Please take a look at page 2 of this PDF:
http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42973.pdf

THe real minimum wage (not nominal) is DECREASING since the 1960s. Meanwhile the CEO salaries have been going up by 10x every year.

The US economy has been inflationary for a while, which means that productivity is going up. Now if productivity is going up, wage is going down then someone is doing wage theft. No prices for guessing who it is

, the guys who will never get arrested.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 15 Oct 2014 10:43

Shreeman wrote:
From elsewhere on the forum:here, you go. The docket appears public.

And hundreds others chiming in here. Not for our benefit.

Why would I make something like this? I like america, and have no reason to hide its good or bad points.
If you had dealt with anything but tech. woirkers (where this theft occurs differently), you would not question this either.

So that is your proof of "rampant wage theft in America" ??

Anyway I am not interested in debating this with you, so claim whatever you want. This is my last post on "rampant wage theft in America".

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 15 Oct 2014 10:52

Dipanker wrote:
Shreeman wrote:
From elsewhere on the forum:here, you go. The docket appears public.

And hundreds others chiming in here. Not for our benefit.

Why would I make something like this? I like america, and have no reason to hide its good or bad points.
If you had dealt with anything but tech. woirkers (where this theft occurs differently), you would not question this either.
So that is your proof of "rampant wage theft in America" ??

Anyway I am not interested in debating this with you, so claim whatever you want. This is my last post on "rampant wage theft in America".

Indeed, that is a great loss for me.

I apologize also for not being able to report -- off the top of my head -- anything other than a) a court judgment showing wage theft by creme de la creme, b) an article in a top newspaper -- New Yoirk Times -- the same that is so often used to beat indians over the head, c) hundreds of individuals recounting their own experiences from every trade, not for our benefit, and recoiunted very recently.
None of it having anything to do with " illegals".

Perhaps you wanted peer-reviewed statistics complete with citations and source data?

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 15 Oct 2014 11:01

shreeman
My first post was not a reply to you, so please dont take it personally

.
It was an attempt to bring back the discussion on track which had veered off towards other issues. That is why I wrote

Requesting people to kindly focus on this issue.

1. The whole problem started not by a mistake/act of DK but by an action by US (changing laws and applying them to Indian nationals working for diplomats).
The issue is there with consulates of other countries in US also and almost all of them are doing exactly what DK did. We fill two diff papersets and you ignore that was a wink wink nudge nudge arrangement that existed. This kind of thing is common in diplomatic world, ala the American school and embassy canteen supply.

2. US has been targeting Indian diplomats regularly, even before preet B. refer to the article by Prabhu Dayal which refers to such previous cases, he was also similarly targeted. Also see the case of Krittika Biswas.

3. Even if a case had to be registered against her, the way she (a serving Indian diplomat and defacto Consul general)was treated was completely unacceptable.

I believe there is a trend which exists beyond preet B and DK. It is not a wage theft or sexual harassment or any other thing. Our diplomats are being targeted period.

Our response has to be to see to it that such harassment of Indian diplomats should stop, once and for all.

Prabhu Dayal wrote:Drastic situations call for drastic steps, and if we can't learn from bad experiences, then we alone are to be blamed. Foot-dragging will not get us anywhere.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 15 Oct 2014 11:05

^^^^^ All true. And unfortunate.

My posts were also intended to separate the other issues from this exceptionally eggregious one. Not directed at you individually, but at the argument that DK case doesnt deserve independent attention.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 15 Oct 2014 11:09

Check out the discussions here - https://www.facebook.com/wsj/posts/10152849736678128

Ashamed by the dhimmitude of fellow Indians.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 15 Oct 2014 11:11

1.How corporations get away with rampant wage theft
2. Further reading
3. McDonald's wage theft suits: Just the tip of the iceberg
4. An Epidemic of Wage Theft Is Costing Workers Hundreds of Millions of Dollars a Year

Also, I have been named the low bidder in Ramana's tender for carrying coal to newcastle. Toodlooo.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 15 Oct 2014 11:15

There are 2 issues
1. Indian diplomats are being targeted by US authorities.
2. Preet B is targeting ppl of Indian ancestry.
In case of DK, 2 was allowed because 1 is happening. He would have been stopped if it was otherwise.
Both need to be stopped.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 15 Oct 2014 12:58

LokeshC wrote:Please take a look at page 2 of this PDF:
http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42973.pdf

THe real minimum wage (not nominal) is DECREASING since the 1960s. Meanwhile the CEO salaries have been going up by 10x every year.

The US economy has been inflationary for a while, which means that productivity is going up. Now if productivity is going up, wage is going down then someone is doing wage theft. No prices for guessing who it is , the guys who will never get arrested.

I agree 100% with this. Trace this to its roots and you will find the same crooks that control the fiat monetary system are the ones robbing productive society blind.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 15 Oct 2014 13:07

Any given country which has active Khalistani groups faces a choice between India and these Khalistani groups. There was a time when UK and Canada used to ignore India's concerns and accommodate these anti India groups. But over the time, they have realized that they need to do business with India and that realization has forced them to choose India over those anti India groups. The result has been a series of raids and arrests of Khalistanis in both UK and Canada. Coming back to the U.S., it is a very large economy and therefore impact of business or lack of it with India is not that great on the U.S. therefore it feels that India's concerns are less important than the anti Indian groups operating within in the U.S. This will continue to happen till it will no longer be beneficial for the U.S. to ignore India's interest to accommodate these fringe elements. It is as simple as that.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 15 Oct 2014 19:43

I agree 100% with this. Trace this to its roots and you will find the same crooks that control the fiat monetary system are the ones robbing productive society blind.

Everybody has equal chances to make money in USA and that's why Indians are the top earning group in USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... old_income

As time passes and State department and IFS kicks out its "Cold War Era stuck" officials relationship between USA and India is bound to get better. PIOs and NRIs see India and USA as motherland (Matrbhoomi) and workland (Karmbhoomi)
and as more 2nd-3rd generation Indians go to the top (politics, business, etc) it is bound to get better in long future.

USA is the top place for growing world population to settle (Water, Minerals, innovations, etc). Indian land mass is running out of resources (due to looting, colonization, etc).

Check world arable land
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arable_land

1. USA --- 350 million population.
2. India --- 1250 million .
3. Russia --- 143 million.
4. China --- 1300 million.
5. Brazil --- 205 million.
6. Australia --- 24 million.

So!!! who controls food and water?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 16 Oct 2014 01:30

^^^^ The US has a ton going for it beyond just this. But the ability to call a spade a spade is no longer among this. If you poll the US population about "US exceptionalism", there is a vast majority of non-retirees that sees the world in gray, and no longer the black and white where US was the king.

There is no need for bakistani style image management yet for the US. Anyone hoping to succeed in America needs to see a balanced image of the opportunities and the challenges.

When the challenges were first pointed out, there was remarkable hostility to wiping the dirt from under the carpet. Now, it has changed to mostly ignorance and avoidance. As far as I can tell, US-India relations benefit from telling it like it is, and not painting america in platinum or India in black.

Just my meaningless personal opinion.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Oct 2014 01:42

Guys back off. The thread is going off topic.
No more after reading my post.

Thanks,

ramana

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 16 Oct 2014 13:59

Assistant Secretary Biswal Delivers Remarks on Indian Prime Minister Modi's Visit to U.S. - US/SD

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Oct 2014 07:08

Guys, I have never heard of Vanita Gupta, she is primed for some top post

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/201 ... ghts-post/

From her profile, she is a refreshing change from the myriad more loyal the king Uncle Tom Indian Americans in high profile positions, spearheaded of course by Preet Khalistani.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Oct 2014 07:08

deleted. Duplicate

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 18 Oct 2014 09:11

this has not been posted.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 19 Oct 2014 02:08

I've been to Canada and the USA a few times.

Canada is the worst for this khalistani bull$hit. It is mainly in the Vancouver and Toronto areas. My relations have told me that it is basically a money making operation and a great deal of old-style Punjabi thuggery involved. The youngsters have never been to India and believe everything they are told my the khalistani propaganda machine. If you go onto any Sikh forum and say anything against khalistan you can expect a barrage of abuse and threats.
Surrey in Vancouver is a hotbed of this, just youtube it.
I remember in the 80's-mid 90's these clowns were knocking on doors selling the khalistani $. It was a blatent money making operation.

Having said that I think the congress 8astards who were responsible should be tried. The massacres were organised by congress and they should be held to account.
Until that happens this wound will fester.
I don't much care for these idiots and their khalistan fantasy, however there must be justice for the Sikhs in India.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Oct 2014 05:50

Plenty in Ulan Bator are also likewise brainwashed. Appear to be incapable of reading or thinking. Learned a long time ago, that arguing sense with them is as futile an exercise as arguing with The Faithfool of the other Nation of The Pure.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Oct 2014 05:54

Looks like raiders on horses from Central Asia infects more people than thought!!!

Did you guys catch the "Turkish or Central Asian" "warrior past" ancestory claimed by Fareed's father? 1.40 timeline. Wow, I thought this was just an inherent Pakistani trait? Do a large number of continental muslims harbor this feeling? How to diabuse this mindset?

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video ... s.cnn.html

I thought FZ's ancestors were Habshis who settled in Gujarat Maharashtra region.