India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 01 Dec 2015 08:21

Already Kerry said India is a challenge in this talks and we have reacted very strongly even for such statement. So we all got a taste of things to come in Paris.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2015 10:41

Yagnasri wrote:Already Kerry said India is a challenge in this talks and we have reacted very strongly even for such statement. So we all got a taste of things to come in Paris.

and the back stabbing, public, anti India position of jai rum ramesh and the foreign led scamgress party.

I wonder if this is part of a price being paid to professional regime changers who are coming to the aid of the congis by subverting democratic positions and institutions in India

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 01 Dec 2015 23:50

Thanks. A truer word you never spoke.

we don't need the amreki baggage that comes along with it.

Agreed - too many naive US fanbois in the current govt and even on this forum. These misguided fools never learn.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 02 Dec 2015 07:18

The US will do what it can. India won't really concede much. Our reserves are simply too plentiful, relatively cheap to access, and gives us a fair degree of energy autonomy. We will burn it till the sky grows dark. Sad but necessary process to achieve strategic parity with the world powers.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 02 Dec 2015 08:43

I think Modiji fully intends to make use of alternative energy especially as new technologies come to the forefront. Alternative energy can't be the base but it can sure help ease the toll on the environment. As new tech arrives even the use of coal can cleaned to certain level further slowing the effect on the environment. Thus, I think Modiji is sincere about it and is more than willing to accommodate these measures as they become economically viable leading ultimately to reduced energy dependence upon the Arab states.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Dec 2015 08:57

TSJones wrote:I think Modiji fully intends to make use of alternative energy especially as new technologies come to the forefront. Alternative energy can't be the base but it can sure help ease the toll on the environment. As new tech arrives even the use of coal can cleaned to certain level further slowing the effect on the environment. Thus, I think Modiji is sincere about it and is more than willing to accommodate these measures as they become economically viable leading ultimately to reduced energy dependence upon the Arab states.

How about obamaji not trying to bully modiji??

what is in grave doubt is not Modiji's sincerity but obamaji's.

yet to see any meaningful contribution from obamaji except for soaring climate change rhetoric.

What's kerryji up to these days?? Playing good cop, bad cop with obamaji??

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 02 Dec 2015 09:23

How come the Obama administration isn't advocating nuclear energy? It just goes to show how disingenuous and un-serious the Obama administration is about climate change.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 02 Dec 2015 10:33

TSJones wrote:I think Modiji fully intends to make use of alternative energy especially as new technologies come to the forefront. Alternative energy can't be the base but it can sure help ease the toll on the environment. As new tech arrives even the use of coal can cleaned to certain level further slowing the effect on the environment. Thus, I think Modiji is sincere about it and is more than willing to accommodate these measures as they become economically viable leading ultimately to reduced energy dependence upon the Arab states.

I think this is a good summary of what Modi is up to.

I also think a modus vivendi will be reached between the US-India positions. Not sure though. We'll see.

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 02 Dec 2015 11:11

IMHO, it is not necessarily environment concern that is driving the PM. Major chunk of Forex goes in buying oil from jihadi states. If we use solar and wind energy and get somwhere with it, we will be able to cut down imports of crude.
That will leave sunshine deficient NATO states to fund ISIS, Nusra, LeT etc.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 02 Dec 2015 11:31

Bhurishrava wrote:IMHO, it is not necessarily environment concern that is driving the PM. Major chunk of Forex goes in buying oil from jihadi states. If we use solar and wind energy and get somwhere with it, we will be able to cut down imports of crude.
That will leave sunshine deficient NATO states to fund ISIS, Nusra, LeT etc.

Oh please, as of now this guy could care less about solar and all that other sh*t. It's not efficient or reliable enough. Coal is the answer.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 02 Dec 2015 11:58

JE Menon wrote:^^habal that is not a topic for this thread. Please take it to the appropriate thread.

Ah but it is relevant to this thread. The Iraqi experience of thinking the US was their friend only to have Wahington and it's Gulf pals scheming to bring about Sunni insurgencies and refusing to ever allow the new gov to form a reliable Shia-only military; leading to the collapse of said army in the face of ISIS, then demanding Maliki step down to be replaced with a weaker, more Saudi-friendly leader in exchange for more overpriced US arms, then hampering Iraq's counteroffensive by blocking Iranian help and undermining Shia militias at every turn, then refusing to deliver paid-for munitions and weapons, to say nothing of waging a fake air campaign against ISIS... all adds up to a track record of scandalous perfidy and should serve as a wakeup call to misguided Indians eager for US friendship at seemingly any price.

No, the Iraqi experience is indeed relavant to US-India relations.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 02 Dec 2015 12:01

Mort Walker wrote:How come the Obama administration isn't advocating nuclear energy? It just goes to show how disingenuous and un-serious the Obama administration is about climate change.

Indeed; the people serious about climate change are pushing molten salt nuke reactors (google it).

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 02 Dec 2015 12:06

Y. Kanan wrote:all adds up to a track record of scandalous perfidy and should serve as a wakeup call to misguided Indians eager for US friendship at seemingly any price.

Are you sure they are misguided? I would argue that they are very well guided and focussed on what they want for themselves out of this relationship. Of course, there's a plethora of factors behind this "motivation"

Y. Kanan wrote:No, the Iraqi experience is indeed relavant to US-India relations.

Our Pakistani experience is far far more relevant to Indo-US relations, because this is where we have been maximally affected, threatened, stymied and hampered.

If that hasn't been enough to realign these "misguided" folks, then what makes you think that Iraqi experience will fare any better?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 02 Dec 2015 13:50

^^and that is why it's not a subject for this thread, which is the only one specifically about Indo-US ties. Or you can replace Iraq with any country and start discussing their relations with the US on this thread. Take it to the appropriate thread.

Please.

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 02 Dec 2015 14:48

JE Menon wrote:^^and that is why it's not a subject for this thread, which is the only one specifically about Indo-US ties. Or you can replace Iraq with any country and start discussing their relations with the US on this thread. Take it to the appropriate thread.

Please.

The question is more about so-called Indians who would rather India become a vassal of US because they got their little greencard and they are happy about it. Becoming a US citizen was their choice, but that doesn't give them an excuse to act as a trader. If can't think as an Indian, you shouldn't be here or atleast shouldn't pretend to fake concern for India.

That's the point the members are making. And calling these people "misguided" is a gross understatement.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 02 Dec 2015 14:49

^^No doubt, and I'm not disagreeing with the general thrust of what you are saying, but this is already being discussed in another thread under the PIO, OCI, NRI issues topic somewhere on the forum. Please take it there.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Dec 2015 14:56

Whatever happened to the US+ td? Posting this here.Incredible incompetence of the US,to take 13 yrs to discover that the man was innocent. Can anyone therefore trust US intel? GITMO is a blight upon the US's already tarnished reputation/O'Bom,ber must close it down as promised by him before he demits office.

Man held at Guantánamo for 13 years a case of mistaken identity, say officials

Mustafa al-Aziz al-Shamiri was low-level Islamist foot soldier, not al-Qaida courier and trainer as had been believed
US military guards walk within Camp Delta military-run prison at the Guantánamo Bay US naval base. Photograph: Brennan Linsley/AP

David Smith

Wednesday 2 December 2015

A man who has spent 13 years in the US prison camp at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, was arrested partly in a case of mistaken identity, US officials conceded Tuesday.

Officials admitted that Mustafa al-Aziz al-Shamiri, 37, was a low-level Islamist foot soldier and not an al-Qaida courier and trainer as previously thought, during a Guantanamo hearing.

Wearing a beard and voluminous white T-shirt, and accompanied by a linguist and two personal representatives, the Yemeni appeared before a panel assessing whether he can be released.

A profile published by the Department of Defense maintains he fought in Afghanistan and mixed with members of al-Qaida. But officials concede that they wrongly believed he had a more significant role because he was confused with others who had a similar name.
Paris attacks could delay Guantánamo Bay closure, Obama warns
Read more

“Mustafa Abd-al-Qawi Abd-al-Aziz al-Shamiri (YM-434) fought in several jihadist theaters and associated with al-Qaida members in Afghanistan,” the unclassified detainee profile said. “It was previously assessed that YM-434 also was an al-Qaida facilitator or courier, as well as a trainer, but we now judge that these activities were carried out by other known extremists with names or aliases similar to YM-434’s.”

The profile added that fragmentary reporting links al-Shamiri to fighting in Bosnia in 1995, and he told interrogators that he fought in Yemen’s civil war in 1996 and in Afghanistan for the Taliban from 2000 to 2001 – including against the Northern Alliance and US forces – before his capture near Mazar-e-Sharif. He has since been an indefinite detainee, considered too dangerous to release but without adequate evidence to bring to trial.

A statement from al-Shamiri’s personal representative described him as very cooperative, enthusiastic and supportive in the preparation for the board hearing. “From the onset, he has demonstrated a consistent positive attitude towards life after Gitmo,” he said. “He has a strong desire to obtain an education in order to provide for a future spouse that his family has already located for him.

“Mustafa will show you today that he is not a continuing significant threat to the United States of America. He is earnestly preparing for his life after Gitmo. During his time in detention, he has attended English and art classes, in addition to acquiring carpentry and cooking skills. During the last feast, Mustafa generously took the time to prepare over 30 plates of pastries for his fellow detainees. When I asked him why he would make pastries for his fellow detainees, he said it’s because it makes him feel like he can give back and share with people.”
US activists to launch Guantánamo protest along camp's perimeter

The statement added: “Mustafa does have remorse for choosing the wrong path early in life. He has vocalized to us that while he cannot change the past, he would definitely have chosen a different path. He wants to make a life for himself. He is aware that Yemen is not an option and he is willing to go to any country that will accept him.”

The 17-minute opening of the hearing was broadcast via video link to journalists in Arlington, Virginia. They were then required to leave before classified details were discussed.

Al-Shamiri has been held as an enemy combatant without charge at Guantánamo since 2002. He is one of 107 prisoners at the controversial base, 48 of whom have been cleared for release. It is not certain when he will learn if he is to become number 49.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Dec 2015 16:23

Most likely Pak sold them the fellow.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 02 Dec 2015 16:28

I am really suprised that we do not see much of the molten salt nuclear reactors. I wonder why. Is there any US interest in perpetuating the existing basic reactor design?

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 02 Dec 2015 20:06

Mort Walker wrote:How come the Obama administration isn't advocating nuclear energy? It just goes to show how disingenuous and un-serious the Obama administration is about climate change.

We're not building nukes or hydro electric dams for that matter. we haven't built either one for decades and don't plan on it. We can't even launch an RTG generator on a space mission w/o mass protest. build a new nuke power plant? R U kidding me? we're shutting down some of the old ones.

We're also shutting down old coal burning electric power plants as quickly as we are able to do so. Until alternative methods get cheaper and more effective, we are using natural gas which is far cleaner than coal but not perfect.

that is not say we are sitting still on alternative energy. we are not. large areas of the west US are building wind turbines where the winds blow mostly 24x7. certain areas in California and Arizona are building solar power electric generators. And we are seeing more hybrid engine cars being made and sold.

While all of this is happening while new tech is being developed. nobody is abandoning fusion research either. Lockheed has joined the fray in that regard.

Solar distillation of sea water still remains a dream but I think California will wake up and make this a reality. They've got the sun and the sea coast and more importantly the investors.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 02 Dec 2015 21:32

Good post.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Dec 2015 23:12

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/order-fr ... 1Y.twitter
Remembering Sandy Berger and the day he saved the world

t was early in the morning of July 4, 1999 and President Bill Clinton was convening his national-security team in the Oval Office. Pakistan and India were at war and Nawaz Sharif, the prime minister of Pakistan, was across Pennsylvania Avenue at Blair House asking for Clinton’s help.
Samuel Berger, the president’s national-security adviser, opened the discussion. This is the most important day of your presidency, Mr President, he said. Two nuclear-armed states are at war and locked in an escalation ladder that could end in Armaggedon. You have one shot at stopping the spiral. You must convince Sharif to back down and withdraw his troops behind the old ceasefire line.
It was Sandy at his best. He cut through the complexity of the situation to grasp its essence and to propose a clear solution. It reflected his conviction that the Office of the Presidency came with a power and authority to get hard things done and a moral responsibility to do them.Earlier that spring, Pakistan had secretly sent hundreds of troops across the line of control in Kashmir to occupy mountaintop posts looking down on a key highway that linked Kashmir together around a town named Kargil. When India discovered the Pakistani ploy, it launched a furious counterattack with air and ground forces. Sandy met his Indian counterpart in Europe in June. Brajesh Mishra told him that India could not stay restrained for long; it would escalate if Pakistan did not withdraw behind the line of control. Sandy told Clinton the war threatened disaster. If India expanded the war, Pakistan would probably lose and inevitably turn to its nuclear arsenal.

The morning of the Fourth, the CIA wrote in its top-secret Daily Brief that Pakistan was preparing its nuclear weapons for deployment and possible use. The intelligence was very compelling. The mood is the Oval Office was grim.Berger urged the Clinton to hear out Sharif, but to be firm. Pakistan started this crisis and it must end it without any compensation. The president needed to make clear to the prime minister that only a Pakistani withdrawal could avert further escalation. Sandy knew Clinton better than anyone, his natural inclination was to find a deal. This time, no deal was possible, it must be an unequivocal Pakistani climbdown.It worked. Sharif agreed to pull back his troops. It later cost him his job: The army ousted him in a coup and he spent a decade in exile in Saudi Arabia. The risk of a nuclear exchange in South Asia was averted.It was Berger’s finest hour. He had grasped the peril of the situation early and directly discussed the matter with the Indians. He fully understood the stakes and articulated them succinctly. His advice on how to run a meeting with a foreign head of government was spot-on.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Dec 2015 00:13

Mass shooting in San Bernardino in CA, over 20 causalities per CeeNN. Hope not the Paris copycat.
Police responding now and gunman still active.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 03 Dec 2015 01:14

Kashi wrote:
Y. Kanan wrote:all adds up to a track record of scandalous perfidy and should serve as a wakeup call to misguided Indians eager for US friendship at seemingly any price.
Are you sure they are misguided? I would argue that they are very well guided and focussed on what they want for themselves out of this relationship. Of course, there's a plethora of factors behind this "motivation"

Y. Kanan wrote:No, the Iraqi experience is indeed relavant to US-India relations.
Our Pakistani experience is far far more relevant to Indo-US relations, because this is where we have been maximally affected, threatened, stymied and hampered.

If that hasn't been enough to realign these "misguided" folks, then what makes you think that Iraqi experience will fare any better?

I never accused our US fan club of being quck learners...

Anyway note to mods:point taken.

saip · Post by **saip** » 03 Dec 2015 01:28

Jhujar wrote:Mass shooting in San Bernardino in CA, over 20 causalities per CeeNN. Hope not the Paris copycat.
Police responding now and gunman still active.

Looks like 3 shooters and they got away.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Dec 2015 04:05

Berger was heavily involved in U.S. relations with China, as well as advising Clinton on the NATO bombing campaign in Yugoslavia in 1999, the 1996 attacks at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia that killed 19 Americans and the U.S. Embassy bombings Kenya and Tanzania in 1998.

http://news.yahoo.com/former-security-o ... 00821.html

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 03 Dec 2015 06:45

Breaking news for San Bernardino shooting.

Two shooters are killed. One with name Saeed Farukh, American Citizen. One suspect detained but also hunt ongoing for third/more persons involved.

May be one explosive device left at site of shooting.

Source: MSNBC news

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 03 Dec 2015 07:55

LA Times: Syed Farook. The female accomplice similarly named but name not being released yet.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 03 Dec 2015 08:02

So far a very murky situation. LA Times is closest to unfolding events and posting live updates.

There is a person by that name employed by San Bernardino County but no confirmation if same person is involved.

There was an altercation at the party before the shooting occurred, and all victims are in that party. Rest of crowded facility not touched. So clear cut conclusions still not possible.

I have a sick feeling - Artesia which is nearby has a huge Indian community. Hope they do not get the blowback.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 03 Dec 2015 08:05

How low can these people go? Disgusting.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 03 Dec 2015 08:06

Middle Eastern descent per Fox news. "Very devout person" according to those who knew him.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 03 Dec 2015 08:09

Robot entered apartment of interest. Controlled explosion caught on TV interview. Firecracker loud.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 03 Dec 2015 08:17

Fox news pushing theory that terrorist plot was being planned but preempted by altercation. CNN says this may be a disgruntled employee supported by girlfriend retaliating to an altercation at Department Christmas party.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 03 Dec 2015 08:20

Either way, this event looks like it will kill any chances of Syrian refugees being accepted by US

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 03 Dec 2015 08:37

Syed may not be middle easter. Got to be Indo-Pak ?

saip · Post by **saip** » 03 Dec 2015 09:00

Syed Raheel Farook, definitely a Paki.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Dec 2015 09:05

saip wrote:Syed Raheel Farook, definitely a Paki.

He ( Farooq) was on Twitter. 99% chance he is Paki .

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Dec 2015 09:11

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... arook.html

Looks like a Paki to me.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 03 Dec 2015 09:30

Can some journalist please quickly ask Money shankar ayyar about his views on this shooting?

saip · Post by **saip** » 03 Dec 2015 09:36

For once I am enjoying FOX Channel.