Re: Internal Security Watch

member_29325 · Post by **member_29325** » 03 Feb 2016 22:59

MM and SG duo seem to believe that they have a chance of sidelining BJP and NC and forming a Khangress/PDP alliance? MM is intent on breaking this alliance with the BJP as she has gauged that BJP will not get as many seats the next time around. A Khangress/PDP alliance will set back J&K by a decade...forward a step, three steps back.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Feb 2016 03:36

PDP = 28, INC = 12, NC = 15, BJP = 25 & IND = 7
Need 44 to form government.

PDP+ INC = 40 + 7 IND is needed. But IND can be swayed so unstable.
So current govt formation without BJP will be unstable. Mufti looked hard and joined BJP.

MM can do the same.
As Ram Madhav said BJP has mandate in J&K to be part of the govt with its 25 seats.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Feb 2016 18:07

I really feel sad for BJP and India. Here we have supposedly an Indian party, the PDP, making the most obnoxious demand from BJP in the face of relentless TSP terror. How does one deal with such traitors?

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/j-k ... FvmWL.html

Sources said the political CBMs hinted at could include holding peace talks with the separatists and Pakistan – a major bone of contention between the coalition partners.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Feb 2016 18:11

ramana wrote:CRS, Its Sonaiji's Congress behind Mehbooba's recalcitrance. She turned hostile after the SG condolence meeting.

That is definitely one factor. But what explains PDP's blackmail to BJP to hold p!ss talks with TSP and harried scum? You guessed it: pro-Paki ideology + ISI blackmail. But then again, I except for the tag Indian, I don't see much difference between Sonia slaves and TSP.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 05 Feb 2016 23:50

How does one deal with such traitors?

Does the article 370 state such a thing explicitly? If not, this is just timepass. In fact, Hindus in India must stand up for Hindus in Jammu and be interested parties since PDP can't argue against that, since it is their own juice. Most of the rivers, the waters of which are awarded to Pakistan, go via Jammu and not Kashmir.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Feb 2016 00:06

PDP needs to be given long enough rope to hang themselves. Premature dissolution will stir the separatists and give them a stick.

Uncle could be behind all this.

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 06 Feb 2016 03:26

PDP is talking about CBM's. isn't this kind of talk to reserved to pakistan ?. she wants center to treat kashmir like a another country? so what is GOI thinking right now.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 06 Feb 2016 08:01

Everybody is making the same off by 1 error, after the death of Mufti Mohammed, PDP has only 27 seats! Though most likely as and when a by election is held PDP will win it back.

But for now any permutation/combination for forming govt. should count only 27 for PDP.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 Feb 2016 11:43

PDP’s dilemma

PDP’s dilemma
A.G. NOORANI — 06 Feb 2016

THE president of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) Mehbooba Mufti finds herself in a pitiable condition today. She was opposed to her father Mufti Mohammed Sayeed’s decision to form a coalition with the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in Indian Kashmir. Chief minister Mufti’s death last month left her with a crippling inheritance.

At a meeting of her party on Feb 3, Mehbooba admitted that it was an ‘unpopular’ decision which her father had taken, accused the BJP of “overt and covert” sabotage and said she would have to “reassess” the situation. In the same breath she said that she was ready to go by her father’s decision “even if it meant finishing off her political career”.

By then the Governor N.N. Vohra had had enough of her posturing. An upright and able man, he had served as defence and home secretary with distinction. In 1992 in New Delhi, he had finalised an accord on Siachen with his counterpart from Pakistan but was badly let down by prime minister P.V. Narasimha Rao at the last minute. He imposed governor’s rule in Indian Kashmir on Jan 9 because Mehbooba refused to take the oath of office.

If Mehbooba Mufti continues as before, her prestige will suffer.
The action was taken under Section 92 of Kashmir’s constitution. It can be invoked only if “the whole machinery of government has broken down”.

This was not the case. She had a majority in the house.

Rajiv Gandhi was sworn in hours after Indira Gandhi’s assassination in 1984. He did not love his mother less than Mehbooba did her father. The plea of “bereavement” wore off and so did the governor’s patience.

In the night of Jan 31, he sent a fax to both the political parties, the PDP and BJP, to decide by the evening of Feb 2. Mehbooba as well as the BJP’s leaders met the governor on Feb 2. The PDP had its demands; the BJP refused to comply.

Mehbooba said, “Before a government is formed in coalition with the BJP, the government of India should take certain J&K-specific confidence-building measures (CBMs) to win over the trust of the people so that the new government gets space to function.”

In plain words, New Delhi should help her regain the popularity which her father had lost.

New Delhi has no desire to help the PDP to repair the damage to its popularity which the coalition pact inflicted. Mufti had complied obediently with the BJP’s demands — the rearrest of the separatist leader Masarat Alam, on the display of Kashmir’s flag, cow slaughter and Article 370.

Kashmir is cash-starved. It could not meet the demands of even ad hoc or temporary employees. The CBMs include handing over to the Srinagar government the Uri and Dulhasti hydroelectric power plants; removal of the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act from some areas; return of lands still occupied by the army and paramilitary forces which are not required for defence.

How could Modi concede all that now? But if Mehbooba gets nothing and continues as before her prestige will suffer. If she breaks up, Modi will never forgive her and her senior colleagues will be disappointed. If fresh elections are held, she will face a disappointed electorate. Ram Madhav, the BJP’s general secretary, made plain that “no new demands or elements can be added” to the agenda of the alliance.

Mehbooba knows the dangers facing her now. She is bitter about the way Modi treated Mufti. He was “virtually made to run from pillar to post by New Delhi to get even constitutionally guaranteed funds”. This, despite the fact that he had “taken a huge political risk of going against the public sentiment in Kashmir by aligning with the BJP”, a sorry admission.

She and Mufti’s henchmen, who shared in the spoils of power, ascribe it to his “vision”.

Others, rightly, to Mufti’s lust for power. Modi took him so much for granted that at a public rally in Srinagar last year, he publicly snubbed the chief minister. “I need nobody’s advice on Kashmir in the world or analysis from any one in this world on Kashmir.” Do you blame him for taking his host for granted?

Only five days earlier Mufti had said, “Toofan ka admi hai (a stormy personality). He is not communal at all.” No one respects a man who ingratiates himself.

Significantly, Mehbooba’s senior colleagues do not voice her strong rhetoric. They as well as her own compulsions make for the continuance of the coalition with all the perils. Militancy has increased. The Abdullahs, no friends of their people, are waiting in the wings; hoping to regain power through fresh elections. The separatists present a pathetic spectacle — divided and bereft of policies relevant to the needs of the people. Weep for Kashmir.

The writer is an author and a lawyer based in Mumbai.

Published in Dawn, February 6th, 2016

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 06 Feb 2016 17:31

BJP should tell PDP that funds will be released as soon as the Pundit townships start coming up. They should also contact NC and smaller parties/independents to see if alternative govt can be formed.

member_29325 · Post by **member_29325** » 06 Feb 2016 22:39

supratik wrote: BJP should tell PDP that funds will be released as soon as the Pundit townships start coming up. They should also contact NC and smaller parties/independents to see if alternative govt can be formed.

The PDP scum cannot be expected to keep their word -- think of them as 100% pakis implementing paki agenda in J&K. Once they get what they want, they have no need to keep any of their promises, which is obvious given the way they want to "renegotiate" and have "CBM"s after a year of signing up as coalition partner, now that their leader who did the negotiations is no more.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 07 Feb 2016 19:22

What is the timeline for government formation? When do fresh assembly elections have to be held if a stable government cannot be formed?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Feb 2016 23:25

My understanding is that under Article 356 ,the executive power to run the state can last upto upto 3 times the terms of state legislative assembly. After that time period , elections must happen and if it result in hung assembly, then article 356 comes in force again . The cycle can be repeated as many times till the sense get drilled deep into the mind of islamists. There is no Constitutional crisis if J & K government falls. Eventually the whole contention will be decided by the economic factors. It is race for India to achieve 10T economy by 2027 to permanently quieten the Hullbulla by these MullahThullaSecularDallahTipofLillah.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Feb 2016 08:50

http://herald.dawn.com/news/1153341/the ... of-kashmir
The pursuit of Kashmir

On November 1, 1947, Mountbatten and his chief of staff, Lord Ismay, travelled to Lahore and met separately with both Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan. When he recorded the daily proceedings in his notebook, Mountbatten could not help but say the tribesmen had been acting on the express and direct command of the Pakistani leadership. Implicitly, Jinnah accepted as much to Mountbatten. “When I asked him how the tribesmen were to be called off, he said that all he had to do was to give them an order to come out and to warn them that if they did not comply, he would send large forces along their lines of communication. In fact, if I was prepared to fly to Srinagar with him, he would guarantee that the business would be settled within 24 hours. I expressed mild astonishment at the degree of control that he appeared to exercise over the raiders,” Mountbatten wrote.
Pakistani strategy was to create enough pressure on the Maharaja to abdicate, to then claim that the region should become a part of Pakistan because most people living in Jammu and Kashmir are Muslims. The Pakistani government knew only an indigenous revolt could preclude India from holding on to Kashmir. But therein lay Pakistan’s greatest challenge: The Muslim League had virtually no presence in the state of Jammu and Kashmir and Pakistan had no guarantee that the people of Kashmir would overwhelmingly vote to be part of Pakistan.

Pakistani leadership was aware of the problem which is why both Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan consistently rejected a plebiscite in Kashmir as long as Indian troops were there. “If the India Government [is] allowed to act…unfettered as [it pleases] by virtue of having already occupied Kashmir and landed their troops there, then, this El Dorado of plebiscite will prove a mirage,” read an official Pakistan statement. During negotiations with Mountbatten, Jinnah strongly objected to having a plebiscite even under the auspices of the UN, maintaining that the presence of Indian troops as well as Sheikh Abdullah’s tilt towards India would deter the average Muslim in Kashmir from voting for Pakistan. In a letter to Attlee, Liaquat Ali Khan described Sheikh Abdullah as a “quisling” and a “paid agent of the Congress for the last two decades”.

In a December 1947 meeting with his Indian counterpart, Liaquat Ali Khan also questioned the efficacy of a voting process in Kashmir while it was under an India-sponsored administration. “…[T]he people of Kashmir were bound to vote, in the plebiscite, in favour of whatever administration was then in power. The Kashmiris were an illiterate and oppressed people, and they would be bound to favor the authority in possession. If an Englishman went as administrator, they would vote to join the United Kingdom,” he said.That not only the Maharaja but also the National Conference favoured India was the advantage Nehru wanted. In his correspondence with Indian politicians, he pointed out that any activity by Pakistan would look illegal and unacceptable after Kashmir had acceded to India. He was right. After the Maharaja acceded to India on October 26, 1947, New Delhi was successful in portraying to the rest of the world that Pakistan-supported militant activity was an act of belligerence. This would

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 14 Feb 2016 00:43

There are many things brewing underneath the seeming calm in Kashmir. The situation is not unlike the 80's, but with a different generation. GoI needs to watch out and be deft in the handling of issues. TSP's plans needs to be checkmated. Need to watch events there closely. Not entirely related to the current political imbroglio but that could destabilize further.

We need some close study of local news in the region, informed parties and TSP news on Kashmir.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Feb 2016 01:03

ShauryaTJi, absolutely, no doubt about it. As someone KM dork who reports for Undy said, Mufti was an Indian first and Kashmiri, while MM is a Kashmiri (another way of saying Paki). TSP has siezed on Mufti's death and is remote controlling the whole situation from Rawilpindi. They want to set in notion an irreversible process by which Kashmir valley "democratically" secedes from India. TSP for sure is playing a deadly covert game. Some combination of independence for valley or "joint sovereignty" is their immediate goal.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Feb 2016 07:02

CRamS wrote:ShauryaTJi, absolutely, no doubt about it. As someone KM dork who reports for Undy said, Mufti was an Indian first and Kashmiri, while MM is a Kashmiri (another way of saying Paki). TSP has siezed on Mufti's death and is remote controlling the whole situation from Rawilpindi. They want to set in notion an irreversible process by which Kashmir valley "democratically" secedes from India. TSP for sure is playing a deadly covert game. Some combination of independence for valley or "joint sovereignty" is their immediate goal.

There ought to be internal political forces who have to start making noises of linking Kashmiri Jihadis issue with transfer of population per partition rational.

gunjur · Post by **gunjur** » 18 Feb 2016 11:47

As per Rediff. FWIW

BJP to lift AFSPA to end J&K stalemate?

BJP general secretary Ram Madhav met PDP president Mehbooba Mufti at her residence on Wednesday and, according to sources, conveyed to her the Centre's willingness to lift the contentious Armed Forces Special Powers Act on a trial basis from Jammu and Kashmir. Madhav also spoke of handing over two power projects to the state to end the 40-day deadlock over government formation.

If true, what exactly is bjp trying to achieve here??
----------------------------------------------

EDIT: Even toi(let) is reporting it.

BJP general secretary Ram Madhav met PDP president Mehbooba Mufti at her residence here on Wednesday and, according to sources, conveyed to her the Centre's willingness to lift the contentious Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) on a trial basis from Jammu & Kashmir. Madhav also spoke of handing over two power projects to the state to end the 40-day deadlock over government formation.

Following former CM Mufti Mohammad Sayeed's death last month, his daughter Mehbooba has delayed government formation with BJP, seeking specific concessions from the Centre "to rebuild confidence in her party cadre".

The phased revocation of AFSPA and the handing over of the power projects -Dulhasti in Kishtwar and Uri in Baramulla - were part of the agenda for alliance or the common minimum programme agreed on by PDP and BJP last February.

However, Madhav and Mehbooba declined to share the details of the meeting with the media. Mehbooba, sources said, had asked the Centre for the revoca tion of AFSPA from areas where militancy had declined over the past decade.

Sources said that the Centre might agree to lift AFSPA from Srinagar and Kathua district in the first phase on a trial basis. This was conveyed to Mehbooba by Madhav during their meeting, BJP sources said.

----------------------------
EDIT2:

https://twitter.com/gauravcsawant/statu ... 0507145216

@gauravcsawant :: Even thinking of removing #AFSPA at this stage in J&K wud amount to a crime far greater than chanting bharat ki barbadi at JNU. 'Hara Kiri'

https://twitter.com/gauravcsawant/statu ... 5505016833

@gauravcsawant ::Top army source: no question of removing #AFSPA from J&K at this stage, esp post Pathankot. Both MoD & MHA (terror fighters) against it

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 18 Feb 2016 13:02

It was also rumoured that GOI will go slow or even let go JNU traitors to get PDP in their side.

gunjur · Post by **gunjur** » 18 Feb 2016 13:34

Meanwhile

https://twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/7 ... 6565934080

@IndiaToday :: AFSPA removal not a ground for govt formation in J&K: Govt sources

So looks like everyone i.e. political parties, army, central govt is out"source" ing their own news.

------------------------

EDIT: This article says that due to a flight-tracker app, omar abdullah blew the lid off the meeting between mehabooba-ram madhav

https://twitter.com/abdullah_omar/statu ... 0947530754

@abdullah_omar :: Unscheduled flight VTJSG just landed in Srinagar after normal operation hours. Something is cooking with the PDP-BJP government formation.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Feb 2016 20:38

Something odd about the Pampore encounter. 6 men incl 2 officers dead. Encounter still on. Media blackout

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 21 Feb 2016 20:43

X-post
It seems 6 security personnel have been killed in J&K. 3-5 terrorists are holed up in a building. Why don't they just blow up the buildings instead of pushing people into a firefight?

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 21 Feb 2016 22:18

Supratik wrote:X-post
It seems 6 security personnel have been killed in J&K. 3-5 terrorists are holed up in a building. Why don't they just blow up the buildings instead of pushing people into a firefight?

Very big building.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 21 Feb 2016 22:29

https://twitter.com/Terror_Monitor/stat ... 5604718592

Terrormonitor.org ‏@Terror_Monitor now2 minutes ago
#INDIA
#UPDATE
#Pamporeencounter Still Ongoing - Report. #TerrorMonitor

disha · Post by **disha** » 21 Feb 2016 22:30

I doubt that there are 3-5 terrorists holed up in that Bldg. I am thinking of 10-12 terrorists. Some may have been masquerading as 'innocents'.

---

^^ If that is the building., it is huge!!

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 21 Feb 2016 22:32

Check https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pamporeencounter?src=hash on twitter

Bangalore Mirror ‏@Bangaloremirror now3 hours ago
#Pamporeencounter | 1 militant killed in the encounter: Army

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 21 Feb 2016 22:34

-delete-

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 21 Feb 2016 23:55

I think we do need heavy anti material like OFB vidhawansk and even 106mm RCL for such encounters

member_29325 · Post by **member_29325** » 21 Feb 2016 23:57

Soldiers lives must be more of a premium than the lives of terrorists or the people who assist them or the buildings. How did these terrorist manage to hole up in the building if the people living in the building did not cooperate? I see no reports of these people being taken hostage or whatever. Just destroy the building if that is what it takes to kill these terrorists so no lives of soldiers are lost.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Feb 2016 00:04

Yes, I think Indian army needs to bring in helicopter guns and blow the building to smithereens. Libtards in India will cry civilians dead, but Indian army should just dismiss it as "collateral damage". I am pretty sure there is more than meets the eye, but terrorist attacks like this where we lose more men and material than Pakis is a huge morale booster for pigLeTs, their masters, and RNIs.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Feb 2016 04:17

^^ Is this the single largest SF KIA in the last 5-6 years after that tragic day where we lost 8-10 Para SF folks in the Hafruda forests?

Really tragic stuff!

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 22 Feb 2016 04:22

Agree with Aditya G, on NSG being best suited for CQB, so which SF is suited for night fighting? after years and years of counter insurgency it still remains as a gap thats not addressed adequately

Another aspect is use of Helicopter gunships that can provide suppressing fire flying level to the top floor or even lower, firing into the windows so that the SF can move inside the building, though attempts were made to use them when an airbase was attacked recently

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 22 Feb 2016 05:56

sunilUpa wrote:
Supratik wrote:X-post
It seems 6 security personnel have been killed in J&K. 3-5 terrorists are holed up in a building. Why don't they just blow up the buildings instead of pushing people into a firefight?
Very big building.

Twitter - Gov denied permission to use explosives.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 22 Feb 2016 07:03

Though the main attention is on the ongoing encounter there at the institute but we should revisit the events , when the first contact took place. Going by the reports
A CRPF convoy was on N1A ,got attacked . It must be the usual "CRPF bus " , going by the number causalities and injuries, those piglets must have just sprayed bullets into the bus and ran away. The escorts if any , failed to do their job , those pigs entered the institute. And i might sound harsh , but going by media reports , the civilians who were being "rescued" told that those pigs let them go , then why the rush to enter that building and sustaining casualties. I am saying this because , if any civilians from that part of India get killed , the blame will on Army and if they are safe , it is because the pigs mean no harm to them. so instead of rescuing them , let them have their own medicine. we know how these people reacted to the help coming from Army , during flood.

Time and again , the same thing repeated , why the security personnel don't have dedicated troop carrier with atleast protection from small arms when travelling in such "hot" zones. and the usual tamasha below

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/jammu- ... 99266.html

member_29325 · Post by **member_29325** » 22 Feb 2016 07:13

shaun wrote: I am saying this because , if any civilians from that part of India get killed , the blame will on Army and if they are safe , it is because the pigs mean no harm to them. so instead of rescuing them , let them have their own medicine. we know how these people reacted to the help coming from Army , during flood.

Exactly my thoughts. These paki wannabe kashmiri jihadis can all burn, and there is no need to sacrifice the lives of Indian soldiers on their behalf. They do not deserve it.

member_23692 · Post by **member_23692** » 22 Feb 2016 07:45

When a country's media, intellectuals and elite expresses more outrage against the arrest of some anti-nationals (as in the case of JNU traitors), than against continuous and ongoing genocide against Hindus, attacks against our armed forces and killing of our brave kids (21 year olds, 22 year olds, 23 year olds) in Kashmir, and the general population just stands by and shows no outrage, that country is doomed, 10% growth, notwithstanding.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 22 Feb 2016 14:21

It seems from TV News clips that we have still not provided adequate routine equipment to our quick reaction teams like Bullet shields, Heavy BPJs, small arms optics, remote controlled vehicles, sniper rifles etc apart from my view that we need to deploy heavy anti material rifles like OFB vidhawansk and even 106mm RCL upgraded with laser range finders, optics etc for such encounters where terrorists gets entrenched.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Feb 2016 14:28

The time is long past before we use extra-heavy methods of dealing with Paki scum. each time there is a terror attck we should use max mil force to squash the attempt,and to also impose diplomatic punishments too.Expelling the Paki mil attaches,senior diplomats,banning Pakis from visiting India,etc.,etc. If they think that they can defeat us with a "thousand cuts",then so too can we ostracise them and turn them, into diplomatic pigsh*t by sending them into diplomatic and economic coventry.We can boycott all Paki goods,sporting ties,etc.etc.There are a thousand and one ways of skinning the Paki pig.Let's start right now. We've lost too many precious lives of our uniformed patriots.Only ruthless cold-blooded measures against Paki are needed,not more bombast from politicos about "befitting rep-lies"

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Feb 2016 23:52

member_29325 · Post by **member_29325** » 23 Feb 2016 00:51

And user-statesweasel Banditji went ahead did exactly that...and we are where we are now.