Bharat Rakshak

I am wondering about a few things:
The GSQR 2020, how feasible is it? The only thing I can think that could come close is Tank-X(2)[modified with Arjun Mk2 engine and other modifications] 40 tons??
What are the other equivalent systems of Akash? Price and range of those systems? Any specific problems that Army has with Akash (Like Navy has with Dhruv)?
Strangely IAF is becoming more and more DRDO friendlier...(or so it seems)
and Navy seems to start having problems with indigenous products (at least they seem genuine problems)

This 2 units of akash means 2 squadrons? or am I being too optimistic?

K Mehta,

Arjun is expected to go heavier. Tank Ex is a no go right from the start (ask me why?).

then where does GSQR 2020 lead? Siberia?

K Mehta, all three services have problems with indigenous products and successes as well. Its just not all black or all white.

Re: Future MBT, 40 tons is very very untenable... there is no frigging way, with current tech that a 40 ton MBT with a classical layout can withstand current munitions alone..let alone future ones. Expect top attack munitions to be common, and rocket assisted KE munitions fired from NLOS weapons..

To get comparable protection from a 40 ton system..unmanned turret with autoloader..2 man crew deep in the hull...very compact propulsion with an all electric drive and individual motors for each block of roadwheels for survivability..and not to mention the need for fullblown C3I..

Who knows how much of the above has been stipulated, if at all.. or its yet another open ended GSQR which can be shot down in flames once DRDO / Army engineers have a design ready..

Too damn funny if you ask me..

it seemed very funny to me as well
there is no such tank and all future programmes also dont have anything in light weight (anywhere abroad) all systems I know are either heavy(ier) or like stryker are not tanks esp MBTs.
I agree not all is black or white, but apparently IAF is becoming more receptive of indegenous techs.
Akash, LCA and AWACS are the examples that I know of, maybe you know better, a bigger picture even.

To be honest, the IAF and IA have a long way to go before they reach the level of the Indian Navy, which often co-designs and leads PM function for its gear.

This is why they dont crib as much, since they know they were equal partners in the effort. IAF and IA approach is simple- ask for the best possible technology in a timeline, pursuant to their threat perception. If DRDO cannot meet it within that time, they'll import.

Problem is iterative modernisation- block after block- the practise followed by Israel with the Merkava and the Brits with Chally2, and many many other countries...never caught on with the services. They want the GradeA+ product on day 1, with all the bells and whistles..since thats what (on paper) available from the foreign vendor.

On the plus side, when we do induct local gear, most of it is tested to bits..so thats a good thing.

Category : Corporate News
Headline : Wipro eying aerospace projects
Date : Nov-30-2007 10:36

Wipro, IT behemoth, has tied up with BAE Systems for commercial aerospace projects that may run into several billion of dollars with margins on the higher side. Wipro is pursuing multi million-dollar order from world''s largest missile manufacturer Raytheon and the order size could be as large as $800 -900 million spread over few years.

The company is believed to counter its slowing business momentum by chasing big defense equipment manufacturers for large orders. Raytheon is depending on Lockheed and Boeing who are bidding for multi-billion dollar orders for Indian aerospace and they will in turn subcontract orders to Raytheon. The opportunity has sent the Wipro top boss to think of an acquisition. Sources said that Wipro is look at a buyout worth $90-100 million in aerospace domain. When the traditional markets are proving to be tough and the currency is playing truant, Wipro is turning aggressive to tap a segment, which promises to be strategic.

Last comittee has raised questions to Army about their engineering strength. They have massive Maintainence depots, qualified and avaliable manpower. They have been asked to do their own vehicles instead of cribbing and asking for imports.

Lets see what comes out of it.

IAF's role has been confusing as Dr. Atre put it in Frontier India article. Sometimes they play along and sometimes they pretend as auditors.

IA, IAF and MOD procurement babu's need some management courses on iterative development, incremental technology, continuous improvement, etc., etc.

seriously

Many of MoD babu's need even more basic courses I know a guy who was a finance controller in MoD; his main trip in life was to attend mushayara's in the evening and pen his poems in the morning.

A very sharp fellow mind you; but just not intrested in his job. No motivation at all!!

I can't blame him on this one....if most big ticket projects made by his ministry are treated as a joke by the armed services....he might as well eat paan and sing qawaali .




JC saar I believe Army googled its inspiration for network centric lightweight tank,which the US Army is mulling over as part of its Future Combat Systems.

http://www.army.mil/fcs/mcs.html

Now somehow,they expect DRDO scientists to mix Arjun with this "Mounted Combat System" and somehow resultant tank should have a weight of just 40 tons!

That's brilliant,don't you think?

By 2020,Our Army would have the world's first 100% carbon fibre tank with ERA.Such a tank would have the added advantage of disintegrating on the blow of a Chinese whistle.

This is really funny.Can't the establishment restrict this FMBT to be unmanned? Then we'd able to save another 20 tons!
Also lives would be saved whenever our Armoured Corps gets such great ideas [IMVHO....very ironic].

Never heard anything about this radar called Bharani before. Can anyone shed some light on this?

follow this link

MNK, thats the Bharani 2D Low Level Light weight radar. Developed by the LRDE for the IAF/IA..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO



Sonar, good work...so its yet another BBC (Best of Brochure claims) based on the FCS this time..

Ya khudah, this is too funny..

Thanks.The Russians must be laughing all the way for this Christmas present.
For us,it's a killing joke.

Personally,I'm a big believer in the philosophy that says CNN (Completely No Nonsense) is the best at countering BBC (Best of Brochure claims).

The DRDO must exercise its influence to convince Hon'ble RM about the technical unfeasibility of such an idea,
or at least convince him that only organization having the talent pool and resources to build such a tank, is the Indian Army itself.

Yes,the DRDO should let go of such proposals deemed "too unreasonable" or "too unrealistic" by it [which would be rare], and then ask the armed service concerned to submit a working prototype of the same without time/cost overruns.

In this case,the prototype sent by the armored Corps would be an unmanned 40-ton FMBT....perhaps a remade T-55/Sherman.

Realistically,only a missile armed air-defence variant of the Arjun can be developed into a survivable 40-ton class tank....for the rest of the world is making 60-ton main battle tanks.

The FCS in its present form has been rejected by the US Army.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/fcs-back.htm


What's next? an Arjun-LCA hybrid?
That wouldn't be funny at all.

Indian Navy RFPs for maritime patrol aircraft soon, to develop rotary wing UAVs


Rotary wing UAV

As for the rotary-wing UAV, Adm Mehta said that the Indian model would be based on a helicopter that the HAL was already manufacturing.

''''I had personally initiated this project, based on a running helicopter that the HAL has indigenised. We chose HAL because we believe it can deliver a machine better than any other in the world,'''' Mehta added.

The new machine could be based on the Lancer light attack helicopter, which HAL has derived from the Cheetah helicopter already in service with the armed forces for decades. The Cheetah is the HAL version of the French Aerospatiale Lama SA 315 helicopter.

link

M&M pips Tatas, L&T for BAE's defence venture in India.

Mahindra and Mahindra is understood to have emerged as a preferred partner of international defence equipments major BAE Systems for a manufacturing joint venture in India.

The UK-based BAE Systems has zeroed in on M&M and is believed to have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) after holding talks with at least two other leading corporates -- Tatas and Larsen and Toubro (L&T) for its Indian Land Systems project, sources close to the development said.

The MoU would prove to be a big morale booster for Mahindras which is competing with Tatas for acquisition of auto giant Ford's global luxury brands Jaguar and Land Rover, revised bids for were submitted on Wednesday last.

The proposed JV will manufacture combat vehicles and other land-based defence equipments. Sources said that the project would cater to Indian Army besides looking for exports from Indian soil.

When contacted, BAE Systems' Media Relations Director John Neilson told PTI from London, "BAE Systems has made no secret of ambitions to develop its partnership with India and continues to have discussions with potential industrial partners in the country."

Until such time as these discussions are completed, it would be premature to predict their outcome, he said when asked about the signing of MoU with M&M earlier this week.

Officials of the Indian company could not be contacted for comments.

Next step after the MoU would be creation of a joint venture, for which the two sides would soon approach the authorities for necessary regulatory approvals. A government nod is mandatory in India for defence production.

Edited after sunil's post

`Aerospace sector crucial in economic boom’

T’PURAM: Link-ups between R&D institutions, academia and industries and mastery of critical technology are essential for India to cash in on the global boom in aerospace sector, BrahMos Aerospace CEO and DRDO chief controller A. Sivathanu Pillai said here on Thursday.

He was delivering the Satish Dhawan Memorial Lecture at the National Aerospace Manufacturing Seminar (NAMS 2007) organised by the Society of Aerospace Manufacturing Engineers (SAME) on the theme ‘Light Alloys in Aerospace Systems’ here.

Aerospace sector has a major say in the boom in Indian economy, and it is time India started “thinking ahead,â€

I believe these were posted, and discussed, and infact Col.Ajai Shukla wrote about the discussion in his Blog, Broadsword.

Now, insect-sized aircraft

COIMBATORE: Scientists at the National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), Bangalore, are taking military surveillance to a new level of sophistication with their attempt to develop India’s own Micro Air Vehicles (MAVs).

After working in this area for the last six years, NAL is now executing the project in association with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

Measuring less than 30 cm and weighing 500 grams, these devices are remote-controlled aircraft and used to gather intelligence on defence preparedness in the border areas.

[b]“We are currently working on three different models of MAVs. The ‘Palm Top’ model, a helicopter- like rotating wing device, the ‘perch and stare’ MAV, which can fly inside a room and stick to the ceiling like an insect and a third airplane-like MAV with flapping wings.

In two or three years’ time, we should have some capacity MAVs built in India,â€

Unmanned bomb detector ready to roll

A Remote Operated Vehicle, which would detect nuclear radiation levels and extract hazardous material or bombs, has been developed by the Defence Research Development Organisation.

Called Daksh, the vehicle has an onboard gun to blast through locked doors, break windshields or glass panes of cars carrying bombs.

Daksh has recently undergone extensive user trials with the Army and is slated to be fielded for final confirmatory trials in the first quarter of 2008, DRDO officials told HT recently.

]The radiation detector can be remote controlled within a range of a 500-metre line of sight or up to three floors in a building. It is expected to be an invaluable asset in the hands of bomb disposal squads.

It is also capable of towing a suspected vehicle away from a crowded area, the officials said.

Daksh has been successfully developed in 30 months by DRDO’s research and development engineers in its Pune laboratory. The project was executed by Alok Mukherjee under the guidance of director B Rajagopalan.

The vehicle can climb slopes and approaches to culverts and can be deployed in varied terrain if fitted with additional broad tyres for slushy and marshy stretches. It can extract bombs from small culverts and drains, the officials said.

With a robust manipulator arm, detachable grippers, special attachments and hooks, it can be used to extract explosive devices of different sizes and shapes under cars and other places not easily accessible. The manipulator arm is capable of handling loads of upto 20 kg.

It has multiple cameras on board to help the operator drive and handle sensitive objects.

After removing a suspected item, Daksh takes it to an isolated area, scans it with a portable X-Ray device and defuse a bomb with an on-board explosive-based water jet disrupter.

Wonderful!Next up could an armed robot,which could shoot tranquilzer darts at militants...like the Jarawas.

Air Chief calls for indigenisation in defence technology

Bangalore (PTI): India needs to step up efforts to indigenise defence technology to reduce dependency on foreign countries and to achieve self-sufficiency, Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal, F H Major, said on Tuesday.

"Instead of depending upon foreign countries for defence technology like aerospace, we must step up our efforts towards indigenisation in defence technology," he said, inaugurating the 'silver jubilee International Radar Symposia India-2007' here on Tuesday.

"We must become self-sufficient in meeting our defence needs and this requires the defence PSUs to focus on research and development," he said.

Long-gestation period in defence projects, which had been a nagging problem in the earlier years, has been overcome to some extent. However, there is urgent need for speedy implementation of the projects with strigent quality control, the Air Chief said.

"We must harness the talent for R&D. Premier institutions like IITs must allocate more funds towards R & D and provide the right impetus," he said.

The Air Chief Marshal, however, lauded the steady efforts being made in the sphere of indigenisation. India is shortly coming out with airborne early warning and control system (AWACS).Indian Air Force wants to upgrade its surveillance and air defence capabilities, he said.

"Even as there is a gap between what others (countries) are doing and what we are doing, the doors are wide upen for us to take up the challenges," he said.

Efforts on for launch of BrahMos from submarines, air platforms

Kochi (PTI): Efforts were on to develop systems which could be used to launch BrahMos cruise missles from submarines and air platforms, A Sivathanu Pillai, Chief Executive Officer of BrahMos Aerospace Ltd, said on Wednesday.

Indian Navy is highly 'pro-active' in implementing indigenous systems very fast. Indigenous sonars developed by DRDO were being used by the Navy. DRDO has developed multiple- use sonar systems for installation in the submarines, he said.

DRDO has also mastered in light weight torpedos which can be fired from ships or helicopters. It was now in the process of developing heavy weight torpedos, he said adding homing device in torpedos has already been developed.

AoA!

Let me try posting this here. As always, v never ask questions without a good cause.

Is RTA configuration decided? Is it hi-wing / low-wing? Turboprop? turbofan?

Canard ? 3-wing? or conventional?

Pusher prop? Aft fan? Above wing? Below wing? Engine-e-musharraf?
STOL?
Max TOW decided? Wing area decided?

DRDO DEAL page updated

Achievements
Area of Work

Doesn't this create a security risk....MircoSoft/Visual C++ guys snooping around to help American g-men?

It is the compiled code that will run on Windows NT. No one can snoop around if the code is written with good security consideration.

India delays defence reforms again in face of multiple pressures

X posting...

Link

[quote]Kolkata, December 22 Union External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee laid down the foundation stone of the Centre for Millimetre Wave Semiconductor Devices & Systems (CMSDS) on Saturday, a joint venture between the Calcutta University (CU) and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
The state government has allotted 3.7 acres near Nayabag in east Jadavpur for the Rs 49.5 crore project. In this regard, a memorandum of understanding (MoU) had been signed at the DRDO Bhavan in New Delhi in August 2006.

CMSDS Director Prof S K Roy, who is a faculty of CU’s radio-physics department, said, “Work will begin in 2008 and the project will be completed within a year. The centre will work on radar imaging, missile guidance technology and remote sensing, which will benefit the defence sector.â€

Cabinet committee’s nod for Dhruv makes HAL happy

BANGALORE: The Cabinet Committee on Security’s (CCS) approval for procuring 159 Dhruv advanced light helicopters (ALH), at a cost of over Rs. 14,000 crore, for the Army and the Air Force has come as a relief to the manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

A senior company official told The Hindu that “HAL was both pleased and relievedâ€

From MOD site Link it seems one Grippen flight simulator and 10 Javelin missile simulator are ordered from Zen Technologies.
Any idea why??

Also Its good to see Samtel-HAL collaboration working well. Check Samtel Display Technologies

VEM Technologies

A S, that seems more like what Zen has stated it can produce probably as offsets or TOT if deals are signed. Gripen is on offer for the MRCA and iirc Javelins to the IA.

The one thing about the SAMTEL stuff is like the Russians they are using COTS displays and ruggedizing them. But they did have plans to make the LCDs on their own..wonder what happened to that?!

The VEM technologies PDF is excellent- I hope the offsets from the MRCA build up many such firms to true enterprises able to export and win foreign ancillary orders.

Old news about DRDOs UGV efforts..interesting. This is real good stuff by VRDE. The Defexpo ROV is by R&DE! That is already in trials.

[quote]Pune, December 16 2005: THE secret is finally out. The Unmanned Ground Vehicle being developed by the Ahmednagar-based Vehicle Research and Development Establishment (VRDE) to cut down troop losses in counter insurgency operations will have two variants â€â€

Thx JC

Link

[quote]
The new battle ground
24 Dec, 2007, 0355 hrs IST,ANIRVAN GHOSH, TNN

A million dollar facility, nestled in east Bangalore’s upscale Indiranagar locality makes helmet-mounted night vision devices, laser guided target systems, and state-of-the-art defence equipment for electronic warfare — as sophisticated perhaps as the ones being used by the US armed forces in Iraq and elsewhere.
This isn’t a government weapons factory but one run by Alpha Design Technologies that’s among the rapidly emerging firms that are approved suppliers of warfare and equipment to India’s armed forces and to major defence companies worldwide.

As India looks to match its indigenous military strength with its growing economic prowess, its defence sector, long synonymous with government research labs and PSU units, now relies increasingly on private players, like Alpha Design, SEC Industries and TIL, in addition to large corporate groups.

India’s defence budget is forecast by Jane’s (an international defence consultancy) to rise to $30 billion by 2009, and the country is expected to purchase defence equipment worth $100 billion during the eleventh five-year plan period (2007-2012). A large part of that will come from imports, but an offset clause in the government’s Defence Procurement Procedure policy has thrown the field wide open.

According to the clause introduced in September 2006, a foreign vendor will have to invest about 30% of the order value for co-production or purchase agreements with Indian defence producers, for every defence contract or purchase valued at Rs 300 crore or more. One estimate puts the value of the offset market at $10 billion by 2009, roughly a third of the projected surge in India’s defence budget.

[b]“Certainly the government is encouraging further private sector participation. If you look at the figure of $10 billion, the PSUs won’t be able to absorb it. That is where the private players would come in,â€

'We can consider 50% foreign share if technology demands it'

BS Reporter / New Delhi December 29, 2007

KP Singh, Secretary for Defence Production, will retire from service on 31st December 2007. His three years in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) have seen major policy changes, flowing from the decision in 2001 to allow the private sector into defence production, subject to licensing and an FDI cap of 26%. There is speculation that Mr KP Singh might go on to head a new regulatory body that is being set up to manage offsets for the MoD. Mr KP Singh spoke exclusively to Business Standard about impending changes in the new offsets policy.


Mr KP Singh, how do you look back on your tenure as Secretary, Defence Production?


The Department of Defence Production, and the companies and organisations that work under its supervision, have done a wonderful job in meeting some of the crying needs of the defence forces. There have been lacunae, there are gaps, and there are areas in which we have not been able to achieve what we should have. But the reasons for that do not lie entirely within this department. Take, for example, providing the army with the155 mm (medium artillery) gun. By now we should have been up and running in meeting the requirements of the Indian armed forces. But unfortunately, because of certain problems with the foreign company which was to have given us the technology (South African company, Denel, which was banned after an investigation was launched in South Africa for corruption in an arms contract to another country), that process of buying 155 mm guns has been stalled. So unfortunately we lost that opportunity and that gap still continues to be felt.


The post-2001 liberalisation in defence production has been likened to the 1991 opening up of the Indian economy. What do you see as the major landmarks of your tenure?


Defence Production must ensure that at least 30-40% of the military’s equipment remains at the cutting edge. To do this, we first changed the licensing policy in 2001. The next major reform came when the MoD amended the defence acquisition procedure and laid down a “Makeâ€