Long range Agni missile & test launch

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 May 2008 22:40

From the Hindu news report on Women scientists in Missile Programs:

Thomas, an expert on all solid system propellant did the post analysis of the failure of the first Agni-III missile.

So Dr. Thomas is truly a rocket scientist. She is a rare one in the field world over, who has progressed from motors to missiles.

bala · Post by **bala** » 12 May 2008 23:51

Failure is a good learning curve. People involved in such analysis are truly invaluable since they have to understand everything in detail and hone in on the cause/solution. ASLV on the ISRO side was a good learning curve; the folks who did fault analysis came up with the successful PSLV rockets.

BTW, the woman scientist leading the SDRE charge, must be a mortal blow to H&D of the neighbors to the west.

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 12 May 2008 23:53

The missile named Sagarika has been test fired successfully on Feb 26 this year and last year too from a submerged pontoon. The missile has a range of 700 km. Powered by a turbojet, it can carry a 500-kg payload. It is 8.5 metres long and about a metre in diameter.

DDM-itis about K-15/Sagarika continues.

turbojet powered
about 1 meter diameter what exactly is about - anything from 0.75 to 1.25m rounded to nearest?
500 kg payload - that would be lowest payload indication of any missile of the range!

Santosh · Post by **Santosh** » 13 May 2008 01:02

How is the sub position accurately determined for SLBM udaan, since subs maintain all kinds of silence. Do they have some kind of INS to keep track of their own position? If the equipment is not very precise and accumulates errors since the sub set sail, the overall accuracy would go ... kaput

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 13 May 2008 01:12

The American Tomahawk cruise missile which can be sub launched has a diameter of 0.5m. The larger, strategic ALCM (bomber launched) has a diameter of 0.6m.

The American ALCM -
AGM-86B

Length 6.32 m (20 ft 9 in)
Wingspan 3.66 m (12 ft)
Diameter 62 cm (24.5 in)
Weight 1450 kg (3200 lb)
AGM-86C Block I: 1950 kg (4300 lb)
Speed 800 km/h (500 mph)
Range 2400 km (1500 miles)
AGM-86C Block I: 1200 km (750 miles)
Warhead W-80-1 thermonuclear (5-150 kT)

RGM/UGM-109 Tomahawk

5.56 m (18 ft 3 in) (w/o booster)
6.25 m (20 ft 6 in) (incl. booster)
Wingspan 2.62 m (8 ft 7 in)
Diameter 53.1 cm (20.9 in)
Weight 1180 kg (2600 lb) (w/o booster)
Speed 880 km/h (550 mph)
Range 2500 km (1350 nm)
W-80-0 thermonuclear (5-200 kT)

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 13 May 2008 01:40

chiragAS wrote:
bala wrote:IISC develops technology for increasing range of missiles

I think the IISc should have kept this secret for a while. instead of blurting out Loudly the exact method like coating etc.
It only makes our neigbours more curious and determined to peek or manipulate other projects in our country.
Anyways they have done some great work there. Salute to them.

more the heat>>>Bigger the Blip
Bigger the Blip>> Better the accuracy
Better the accuracy>>Finer the Target lock
Finer the Target lock>>better the intercepting....

me thinks above..understand if you can...else ignore it...I am not sure about it though...

ranganathan · Post by **ranganathan** » 13 May 2008 01:54

I had a question regarding A-1. Since it is the first stage of A-2, will development of A-2 (AT) lead to an extended range A-1(AT)?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 May 2008 03:12

Missile muscle, Pokharan silence - 5000-km Agni to fly from safe haven

[quote]ew Delhi, May 12: Indiaâ€™s military science establishment has been given the political nod to develop a missile with a range of 5,000km-plus that it says it will deliver in two years.

Indiaâ€™s missile development programme was so far limited to the development of the 3,000km-plus Agni III that was tested for the third time last week (May 7) though other programmes were put on the drawing board.

â€œWe have been asked to develop the capability which we believe we have,â€

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 13 May 2008 03:22

[quote="RaviBg"]â€œI am not bothered by names such as â€˜Inter Continentalâ€™ and â€˜Intermediate Rangeâ€™. We are told a 5,000km range missile is what the country wants and that is what we are working on right now,â€

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 May 2008 03:42

In above news report, Dr. Chander said

Asked to put it in laymanâ€™s terms, Chander said scientists will add a third stage to the Agni III without a substantial increase in its dimensions (about 16 metres in length and weighing about 48 tonnes).

Arun_S, What configuration will yield these parameters? I think the AIII payload section(P/S) has to be swapped with one that can accommodate a solid motor. Alternately they can put all the instruments in the payload itself and fly the 'dumb' motor sections. Will eliminate the P/S.

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 May 2008 08:39

[quote]â€œI am not bothered by names such as â€˜Inter Continentalâ€™ and â€˜Intermediate Rangeâ€™. We are told a 5,000km range missile is what the country wants and that is what we are working on right now,â€

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 13 May 2008 09:30

Lakshmic: Namaskaram.

Ramana: Agni-3A configuration fits the description given by Shri Avinash Chander.

Agni-3A Configuration::: A 3 stage missile consisting of :
- A2FS(S32), 8.4 m
- A3MUS(S9), 3.2 m
- A3CUS(S4), 2.0 m
- and MIRV-Mk2 payload. 2.0 m

. . Height: 17 m.
. . Mass: 51 ton
.. Performance: 8,100Km (1,500Kg)

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 13 May 2008 10:19

Venkarl wrote:
chiragAS wrote: I think the IISc should have kept this secret for a while. instead of blurting out Loudly the exact method like coating etc.
It only makes our neigbours more curious and determined to peek or manipulate other projects in our country.
Anyways they have done some great work there. Salute to them.
more the heat>>>Bigger the Blip
Bigger the Blip>> Better the accuracy
Better the accuracy>>Finer the Target lock
Finer the Target lock>>better the intercepting....

me thinks above..understand if you can...else ignore it...I am not sure about it though...

Something disappearing after an Indian rope trick.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 May 2008 10:43

doesnt more range indicate it will rise higher and RV velocity will be higher ?
"true" ICBMs re-enter at around Mach12 ?

its a fair tradeoff imo at current juncture because its just a retrofit to existing
design.

AIII in future can incorporate a meaty aerospike and I am sure we would
see in AIII-SL .....

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 13 May 2008 11:07

All these talk about target accuracy and co ordinates got me thinking.

Right now, the GPS is not scrambled, so the garmin handhelds can fix you within a couple of metres. If you get the readings from a few points kilometres away from the target, you can get sub metre accuracy co ordinates from a satellite photograph. All you need to do is sit tight on a prominently visible spot (like a road junction) for a few minutes and capture the reading. Repeat the same thing at different locations around the target.

That is as good as formal surveying. Compare that to the pre GPS days. No wonder the paranoiac GOI forbids export of maps, even now.

I am wondering how people managed in the pre GPS days. The only means of survey was photographic. I think it was scale and divider over reams of film.

Other than that, the remaining option is satellite based radar topography. That can give results comparable to onsite GPS.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 13 May 2008 11:31

Woman to head missile project for the first time

45-year-old Dr Tessy Thomas, one of the around 200 women scientists and technicians working for the DRDO, has been cleared to be appointed to the post of project director of the upgraded version of the 2000 km-long nuclear capable Agni-II missile.
Thomas is presently the Associate Project Director of the 3,000 km range Agni-III missile project.
Asked about the new version of Agni-II being planned, Thomas, who was honoured along with the entire team of Agni-III by the prime minister, said, "It is still a confidential project. It will be called Agni-II A (2).

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 13 May 2008 11:57

Dileep wrote:All these talk about target accuracy and co ordinates got me thinking.

Right now, the GPS is not scrambled, so the garmin handhelds can fix you within a couple of metres. If you get the readings from a few points kilometres away from the target, you can get sub metre accuracy co ordinates from a satellite photograph. All you need to do is sit tight on a prominently visible spot (like a road junction) for a few minutes and capture the reading. Repeat the same thing at different locations around the target.

That is as good as formal surveying. Compare that to the pre GPS days. No wonder the paranoiac GOI forbids export of maps, even now.

I am wondering how people managed in the pre GPS days. The only means of survey was photographic. I think it was scale and divider over reams of film.

Other than that, the remaining option is satellite based radar topography. That can give results comparable to onsite GPS.

Dilip saar: Two aspects to it.
1.) You are correct, that is one way to grid foreign land with enough landmark datums with a +/- 3 meter accuracy open GPS fix averaged over time. That however is largely applicable for charted part of the local tourist map. Not all places one can foresee action.

2) The problem with the above is that you will have to believe in the Taj Mehal you built on the foundation of the unkill NAVSAT. The problem space now is same as building Indian military network infrastructure using CISCO routers or any other US related router, PC or network card vendors. Your Microsoft & CISCO certified IT-Network Rajput fauji will say he has built a secure network and there are high firewalls to prevent intrusion. Will you trust India's security and future on that???

The fact of the matter is Chinese military as well as Iuropean military does not use any US network gear for their network infrastructure. Why?

That is because the fantastic cheap CISCO/AirLink/D-link router and Microsoft Windows is rigged for backdoor entry, that code is not built by these magnificent companies, but by a NSA liaison officer manages the technical director for that piece of hardware and software, and that code comes from trust me programmers.

What gives? The face of robustness is built on foundation that is known to have a back door entry (Trojan white ants).

I was wondering how will chahch do that for gps. It will do that by selling GPS chips cheap/subsidized and those chips come with free driver software (of course like router, written in NSAGAHDHA "Quila"). Extend the same to syntheziing GPS chips, where the gate arrey design IP is provided by chacha ka ka bhataijaa. The GPS Correlator library need to inspected with magnification glass and the matehematics behind the correlator codes also be inspected for Mama-Shakuni's bugs. I have not done the math, but if the mathematicians have figured out a way to build a time partitioning scheme, that works coherently on large land mass but has discontinuity in the middle of ocean? Then one is screwed royal and grand.

So yes if that Garmin substitute is DRDO developed from grounds up (starting with mathematics) implemented in FPGS with all local function library, then send apna baccha vishwa bhraman kay liyay, that will be a cheap way to index landmarks.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 13 May 2008 12:30

Singha wrote:AIII in future can incorporate a meaty aerospike and I am sure we would see in AIII-SL .....

IMHO all MIRV payload section of Agni-III/V will have aerospike. It is a necessity.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 May 2008 12:46

afaik "ice station zebra" mentions the SSN as having a big INS onboard so
I guess all submarines have it .... chacha can also get corrective fixes from
GPS whenever the sub pokes its antenna above the water. I think they even
have floating radio buoys that permit sub to remain deeper.

truly the SSN is the epitome of multi disciplinary engineering!

vina · Post by **vina** » 13 May 2008 13:16

Singha wrote:afaik "ice station zebra" mentions the SSN as having a big INS onboard so
I guess all submarines have it .... chacha can also get corrective fixes from
GPS whenever the sub pokes its antenna above the water. I think they even
have floating radio buoys that permit sub to remain deeper.

truly the SSN is the epitome of multi disciplinary engineering!

I remember as a kid a photo of a US Nuke Sub INS system along with the Gyros, minitaturized into the size of a walkin cabinet , of around 1960s vintage , in an old collection of military journal.. The maker was "Sperry" Gyroscope company..

Massa is old hand at making precision INS. In fact, the Norden bomb sight that allowed precision bombing during WWII was cutting edge for that time , far ahead of it's time.

Materials wise, Massa ahead of game as well. Materials wise, massa turbochargers were far ahead of German and Brit turbo chargers ..(germans had limitations on source of materials of course)..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 May 2008 13:26

the 8th AF based in UK and making bombing runs over mainland europe
took a fearful loss inspite of norden bombsight and very heavy 0.50cal
armament in the B-17 and B-24. some were kitted for just guns with no
bombload.

only when P47 and P51 escorts were available did these daylight raids cut
their losses. the hi-alt perf of these were better than Me-109G not sure of
the redoubtable FW190 "focke wulf" of Kurt Tank (pita of HF24 Marut)

if anyone hasnt read it, please read "Raid on Regensburg"

the crafty foxy british outsourced the s*** job to their cousins while taking
the lower risk night bombing with halifaxes, blenheims et al to Lancaster.

all that came up were the few radar equipped german fighters and
Mosquito escort was usually available.

to me sopwith camel and de havilland mosquito were the most romatic
birds of the era. wouldnt mind taking a girl up in either, esp if she sits
on my lap!

vina · Post by **vina** » 13 May 2008 13:38

Singha wrote:the crafty foxy british outsourced the s*** job to their cousins while taking
the lower risk night bombing with halifaxes, blenheims et al to Lancaster.
:P all that came up were the few radar equipped german fighters and
Mosquito escort was usually available.

Daylight bombing of Germany became a possibility , only after the USAAF entered the war and the P-51 Mustang was inducted into service.. The P-51 with its near laminar wing and massive fuel fraction and drop tanks was the first plane with the range and the performance to escort the bombers all the way to germany and back, and more importantly stay with them and intercept the Luftwaffe fighters..

Earlier, the fighter escort was half way to France and after that the bomber boys were on their own..They sent the bombers against the Me109s and Focke Wulfs with just a prayer and good luck to me'ol blight. The Brits took savage losses in the bomber force in such raids.. Thankfully when the Americans came intot he war, they put their echhanddee firmly between their tails and restricted themselves to night ops.

Mosquitoes had the range and great speed. but they definitely were not fighters and were not meant to get into a turn and burn knife fight with Me109s and FW 190s..

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 13 May 2008 14:47

vina is right, early british daylight raids with blenheims and brigands were shot out of the sky before they ingressed into germany. night raids were the only option. even lancasters would struggle in daylight. incidentally, even the luftwaffe learned this lesson the hard way over southern england in 1941

the usaf put up the huge b17 fleets with the concept of 'static defense' from large numbers of .50 cal brownings, but the lufties were too smart and took a huge toll during 42 and 43

its the fighter escorts that changed the game - mustangs, thunderbolts and ligthnings and that too in overwhelming numbers. for every fighter the luftwaffe could put up, there would be 50 US fighters in the air overhead. by 1944, RAF mosquitos and long range spitfires started raiding in daylight, and then once the luftwaffe were on the strategic backfoot, daylight raids resumed once more

its the same story with tanks. the us and british tanks were inferior to the german panzers, but they arrived with massive numbers

the nazi military industrial complex could not keep up loss replenishment, not to mention the loss of experienced combat crews the germans could not replace

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 13 May 2008 15:08

India gets its 1st female proj director of Agni missiles

New Delhi, May 13: She has been dubbed India`s `missile woman`, one in the team of India`s elite scientists behind the Agni III, India`s longest-range nuclear capable missile that can hit targets up to 3,000 km. But then Tessy Thomas is not called `Agni Putri`, or daughter of fire, for nothing.

When photographs of jubilant Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) scientists appeared after the May 7 launch of Agni III, Tessy was the subject of many a question.

But the 45-year-old associate project director of Agni missiles takes the curiosity in her stride. What matters is that her gender is not called into question at her workplace. `Here, I am considered as a scientist and not a woman. But it has to be taken into account that the job with DRDO comes with a responsibility; it is for one who can understand the criticality of the work,` the woman from Alleppey in Kerala said.

`It was the determination of my mother that kept me going. My M.Tech degree in Guided Missiles gave me an upper hand. Also I joined under Dr. A.P.J. Kalam and have worked under seniors who always encouraged me. `When I joined DRDO, there were only four-five women. Now there are about 20-30 women in a lab of 250 scientists. It is a good improvement,` Tessy said.

She remembers the early days when she joined DRDO (then known as Defence Research and Development Lab) in 1988. Then she soon got associated with the ambitious project of developing Agni. `There were about seven women scientists when Agni-III was test fired from Wheelers Island (in Orissa) last week and I was amongst them. We just wanted to prove to the world that nothing was wrong with the missile system as was said after the first test which failed,` Tessy said with a glint of determination in her eyes.

The first test in 2006 had failed when shortly after lift-off, the missile dived into the Bay of Bengal. Like all women, Tessy also does the tightrope walk between home and career, between being a mother and a scientist fiercely dedicated to her job.

When Tessy reached Wheelers Island for the launch of Agni-III on April 28, she left behind in Hyderabad son Tejas, who was to appear for his Class 12 exam and was running high temperature. `I came to the Island on April 28 and was there till May 7 when the missile was fired. I was under pressure from all sides, but my son was very cooperative. He does not complain at all,` said Tessy, whose husband is a navy officer posted in Visakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh.

Like many other working women, Tessy starts her day early. `My day starts at 4 a.m. when my son gets ready for his coaching and ends after midnight. It is hectic but I try to help my son in studies especially physics.` She would like other women to take up science at the school level and go on to become researchers and scientists - and shore up the forces of the DRDO, India`s premier military research organisation.

Tessy is aware of the market forces with many corporate houses attracting DRDO scientists by giving exorbitant salaries. But she is dedicated to the DRDO. `It really pinches to see that in the private sector people are getting four to five times what you are getting.

But I am doing the job in the national interest and I cannot be forced to stop working in that direction,` Tessy explained. According to the defence ministry, a total of 1,107 scientists, mostly young entrants, have resigned from the DRDO between 2003 and 2007, an average of one person leaving every two days. For this woman, it is truly all about rocket science.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 13 May 2008 16:01

Arun, you are absolutely right on the communication technologies. there was a legal issue when AT&T reigned supreme in telecom hardware, where CIA wanted the exchanges being exported to have a remote kill function.

Coming to positioning and navigation, we need to clearly identify two areas of interest, viz charting and navigation. I think there isn't much unkil can do with the first. A garmin is going to work as best as the signal allows it, irrespective of the location. GPS fixes tens of km away can pinpoint co ordinates from a satellite photo. So, if you can get a tourist that close, you get the data. You get it once, that doesn't change (well, unless the tectonic plate moves).

The protection of GPS lies in its decryption key system. You can get good data if you have the right key. Any other involvement, like putting trojans into the chip are not only difficult, but also un necessary. The commercial GPS uses one class of (published) key set. The pentagon can change the accuracy or turn it off any time. The algos and keys are published, so you can make your own receiver without blackbox IP from anyone.

Using GPS for nav is a different game. You can NEVER use it, unless you control the whole thing. I think we would do that.

Coming to subs, the only navigation underwater is INS. You can get satellite info if you can put an antenna out. You may also use shore based long range nav too. That pretty much is IT. So, having a gold plated INS is vital.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 May 2008 16:17

folks will recall the Kilo INS was inputing some wrong data for initial position into the Klubs that failed?

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 13 May 2008 19:34

For India's 'missile woman', it's all about rocket science.

She has been dubbed India's 'missile woman', one in the team of India's elite scientists behind the Agni III, India's longest-range nuclear capable missile that can hit targets up to 3,000 km. But then Tessy Thomas is not called 'Agni Putri', or daughter of fire, for nothing.

When photographs of jubilant Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) scientists appeared after the May 7 launch of Agni III, Tessy was the subject of many a question. But the 45-year-old associate project director of Agni missiles takes the curiosity in her stride. What matters is that her gender is not called into question at her workplace.

"Here, I am considered as a scientist and not a woman. But it has to be taken into account that the job with DRDO comes with a responsibility; it is for one who can understand the criticality of the work," the woman from Alleppey in Kerala said.

"It was the determination of my mother that kept me going. My M.Tech degree in Guided Missiles gave me an upper hand. Also I joined under Dr APJ Kalam and have worked under seniors who always encouraged me.

"When I joined DRDO, there were only four-five women. Now there are about 20-30 women in a lab of 250 scientists. It is a good improvement," Tessy said.

She remembers the early days when she joined DRDO (then known as Defence Research and Development Lab) in 1988. Then she soon got associated with the ambitious project of developing Agni.

"There were about seven women scientists when Agni-III was test fired from Wheelers Island (in Orissa) last week and I was amongst them. We just wanted to prove to the world that nothing was wrong with the missile system as was said after the first test which failed," Tessy said with a glint of determination in her eyes.

The first test in 2006 had failed when shortly after lift-off, the missile dived into the Bay of Bengal.

Like all women, Tessy also does the tightrope walk between home and career, between being a mother and a scientist fiercely dedicated to her job.

When Tessy reached Wheelers Island for the launch of Agni-III on April 28, she left behind in Hyderabad son Tejas, who was to appear for his Class 12 exam and was running high temperature.

"I came to the Island on April 28 and was there till May 7 when the missile was fired. I was under pressure from all sides, but my son was very cooperative. He does not complain at all," said Tessy, whose husband is a navy officer posted in Visakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh.

Like many other working women, Tessy starts her day early. "My day starts at 4 a.m. when my son gets ready for his coaching and ends after midnight. It is hectic but I try to help my son in studies especially physics."

She would like other women to take up science at the school level and go on to become researchers and scientists - and shore up the forces of the DRDO, India's premier military research organisation.

Tessy is aware of the market forces with many corporate houses attracting DRDO scientists by giving exorbitant salaries. But she is dedicated to the DRDO.

"It really pinches to see that in the private sector people are getting four to five times what you are getting. But I am doing the job in the national interest and I cannot be forced to stop working in that direction," Tessy explained.

According to the defence ministry, a total of 1,107 scientists, mostly young entrants, have resigned from the DRDO between 2003 and 2007, an average of one person leaving every two days.

For this woman, it is truly all about rocket science.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 May 2008 20:33

Not everyone can be a weapons designer. The field has its own charms that money cant offer. So there will always be vishwakarma's disciples the world over.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 May 2008 21:07

Arun_S wrote:
That is because the fantastic cheap CISCO/AirLink/D-link router and Microsoft Windows is rigged for backdoor entry, that code is not built by these magnificent companies, but by a NSA liaison officer manages the technical director for that piece of hardware and software, and that code comes from trust me programmers.

MSFT vista is a joint product of MSFT, NSA and CIA

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 13 May 2008 21:12

the Telegraph: Missile muscle, Pokharan silence
5000-km Agni to fly from safe haven
[quote]SUJAN DUTTA
The Agni III being test-launched off the Orissa coast. (PTI)

New Delhi, May 12: Indiaâ€™s military science establishment has been given the political nod to develop a missile with a range of 5,000km-plus that it says it will deliver in two years.

Indiaâ€™s missile development programme was so far limited to the development of the 3,000km-plus Agni III that was tested for the third time last week (May 7) though other programmes were put on the drawing board.

â€œWe have been asked to develop the capability which we believe we have,â€

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 13 May 2008 22:46

uddu wrote:
Venkarl wrote: more the heat>>>Bigger the Blip
Bigger the Blip>> Better the accuracy
Better the accuracy>>Finer the Target lock
Finer the Target lock>>better the intercepting....

me thinks above..understand if you can...else ignore it...I am not sure about it though...
Something disappearing after an Indian rope trick.

I hope this chanakyan technique worksout....but Sun Tzu and his proxy may not fall prey to this trap....

only if the intention of announcing that chromium technique is to blind "them"....else I'd agree with ChiragAS..

again...GoI would not let IISc to expose such a confidential(to my eyes) technique of extending the range of missile....something fishy for sure....

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 13 May 2008 23:15

^^

Boss, there is nothing to worry about this disclosure.

Chromium melts at 1,907 degree centigrade while the RV/MIRV endures tempratures to the order of several thousand degrees centigrade. Smart yindoo scientist is most likely talking about some exotic Chromium based 'alloy' and not just a slap some chromium on the tip recipe. And nobody knows what the alloy characteristics are because he didn't disclose the composition. Heck, it might not even have anything do to with Chromium ("... such as Chro... ").

You know how evil yindoos are. Always trying to mislead the pious in the wrong direction.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 13 May 2008 23:41

Rahul Shukla wrote:^^

Boss, there is nothing to worry about this disclosure.

Chromium melts at 1,907 degree centigrade while the RV/MIRV endures tempratures to the order of several thousand degrees centigrade. Smart yindoo scientist is most likely talking about some exotic Chromium based 'alloy' and not just a slap some chromium on the tip recipe. And nobody knows what the alloy characteristics are because he didn't disclose the composition. Heck, it might not even have anything do to with Chromium ("... such as Chro... ").

You know how evil yindoos are. Always trying to mislead the pious in the wrong direction. {there you are....me thinks same}

Thanks for the technical inputs brother....

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 May 2008 09:00

I am still fascinated by the long flight time and the unaccountable ~400 secs. What a journey it must have been.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 May 2008 11:16

ranganathan wrote:I had a question regarding A-1. Since it is the first stage of A-2, will development of A-2 (AT) lead to an extended range A-1(AT)?

Do we need it is the question , A-1 is paki specific and with the range ( 700 - 1200 km) , we can cover their land from depth .

It makes sense and we need the A-2 AT , because it gives more range and an optimum RV for that idiot proof boosted fission device.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 14 May 2008 11:29

ramana wrote:I am still fascinated by the long flight time and the unaccountable ~400 secs. What a journey it must have been.

Saar, are you suggesting that the total flight time was 800 + 400 secs? Please kindly educate us exactly as to what you see here.
We only have GOI's press release which says that the missile travelled so many kilometers. It is possible that it travelled a much farther distance. Or that it was tested in an unusually depressed trajectory / its flight cut short by a sudden dip of the reentry vehicle in order to keep the range to such a level so as to prevent discomfort in certain quarters in Delhi.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 14 May 2008 11:36

Test a H-bomb at 45 Kilotons and say it can be extrapolated to 200-300 kilotons. (Test a FBF and say it can be extrapolated to a H-bomb), test a missile to a fraction of what it can do; 3K odd kms and say it can be extrapolated to 10K odd.

I've had it with GOI's fear of the world. 'Bout time someone grows some b@ll$ and tests to full yield - full range, and comes and tells the nation that this is what we tested and here is what we got.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 14 May 2008 11:44

p_saggu wrote:I've had it with GOI's fear of the world. 'Bout time someone grows some b@ll$ and tests to full yield - full range, and comes and tells the nation that this is what we tested and here is what we got.

Is that what you want or is that what you think the country needs to do?

Being subtle has its advantages...

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 14 May 2008 13:12

vivek_ahuja wrote:
p_saggu wrote:I've had it with GOI's fear of the world. 'Bout time someone grows some b@ll$ and tests to full yield - full range, and comes and tells the nation that this is what we tested and here is what we got.
Is that what you want or is that what you think the country needs to do?

Being subtle has its advantages...

You forgot to mention that being subtle has its dis-advantages... too.

Subtlety has advantage when incontrovertible conclusion can be unambiguously arrived at, for example the recent Agni-III test with the 350km peak altitude, 3000km range and 800 sec flight time gives clear yet subtle message to the intelligent ones well versed in the art. Yet very desirably obfuscates the true payload vs range characteristics.

OTOH Nuclear Test and declared 45kt yield data only, is read my lips excercise to hide failure under the carpet, with the excuse of Katholi village safety thrown in to hide shame. Attempt to call that subtle is befooling self, that is counterproductive and deters no-one. Only a non-subtle speak at full-yield is meaningful in this case.

Army Chief Gen VP Malik's article above is much to the point on this matter.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 May 2008 15:01

Of course assuming that Arun is correct that Indian nukes are a complete fizzle, the missiles too are unnecessary - unless we want to deliver flowers. There is absolutely no point showing any enthusiasm about an offensive missile force if we are sending duds.