Chandrayan-1 moon mission

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rajsunder
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by rajsunder »

John Snow wrote:
Notice the Bell Bottom curve of the guy in the right (next to Bull )

Actually taking it in bullock cart and open to dust is the best simulation of real conditions.

1) The bullock cart does not have any suspension in its wheels
2) The braking is not smooth
The above two are the replica of extreme vibrations the launch vehicle might impose on APPLE

3) The open dust prone environment is exactly like space debris simulation.

There was a reason why it was done the way it was done.
looks like you are desperately trying to support ISRO's methods. when space debris hits a satellite in space, it collides with the satellite at a speed exceeding 1000's of km/hour and at that speed u dont have a chance.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by disha »

rajsunder wrote:looks like you are desperately trying to support ISRO's methods. when space debris hits a satellite in space, it collides with the satellite at a speed exceeding 1000's of km/hour and at that speed u dont have a chance.
Does not matter, it was almost 3-4 decades in the past and ISRO has come a long way. I find it actually quite good that India entered space age on the backs of cycle and bullock cart with men wearing out of fashion, ill fitting trousers and weird hairstyles.

In fact, before launch of all GSLV/PSLV/UMLV/Chandrayaans etc, ISRO should take out a bullock cart and send it to deliver something of importance in space. It will nicely connect the old with the new, the past with the future! I for once will relish it.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Sanjay M »

What hairstyle? His hair looks like anybody's you'd see today. Those bell-bottom pants look a few years out of date, and the print on that shirt looks like he's going to a groovy party after work. The guy standing on the cart seems to be wearing jeans, though.

Apparently there is an explanation for the bullock cart:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 39449.html
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by disha »

Sanjay M wrote: Apparently there is an explanation for the bullock cart:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 39449.html
Thanks for pointing to that article. There are people who will still mock and :rotfl: even though a valid explanation like below is given:
'We didn't realise what a fuss that photo would make,' said S Krishnamurthi, the press spokesman at the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), at their futuristic, moon-grey headquarters in Bangalore, south India. 'Of course, we didn't need to use a bullock cart. We have padded, air-conditioned transport lorries, but the metal was throwing off reflections which were affecting the satellite's antenna. Then somebody hit on the idea of a bullock cart, which is made of wood. It worked perfectly.'
And then mock a poor SDRE's effort to be self-sufficient and put him to shame.

For me, SDRE's dared to dream and dared to dream big, very laudable. And we should learn to take our inadequacies in stride. So to honour APPLE, in future all our Antrikshyatris should travel at least first few steps on a bullock cart! Biggest journey always begins with a small step.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Sanjay M »

Nah, that sounds too cliché - "one small step for a cow, one giant leap for mankind" :P

Anyway, regarding India's mission to Mars, this article seems to explicitly say that it will be an orbiting mission:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 977297.cms
Meanwhile, Isro is working towards an unmanned flight to Mars between 2013 and 2015. It would be an orbiting mission. Space scientists agree that it would be futile for India to repeat experiments conducted by other countries on Mars but the main purpose of the mission will be the search for water. That will not be easy. Mars is known to be a hostile planet, with three of every four flights by the US and Russia being unsuccessful.
I wonder what new instruments could be used to detect water, which haven't already been tried?

Maybe bi-static radar again? Hopefully the star sensor would be hardened against failure, so that it could stay the course this time. At least Mars is farther away from the Sun, so that the radiation would be more manageable.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by disha »

That should be in humour thread, cannot stop :rotfl: And look at the comments!

On a serious note, one has to be mindful of the sophisticated kind. The above mentioned are jokers and are a good only to be mocked at.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Rahul M »

^^
that's a satire. read the other articles.

on another note, time to archive this thread ? for the time being we can discuss CY-2 in the space thread itself.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by vishwakarmaa »

disha wrote:For me, SDRE's dared to dream and dared to dream big, very laudable. And we should learn to take our inadequacies in stride. So to honour APPLE, in future all our Antrikshyatris should travel at least first few steps on a bullock cart! Biggest journey always begins with a small step.
Well said.

If tomorrow NASA used bullock-cart, same people would laud it and call it a recognition for Indian farmers. But when ISRO does it, its a shame. We are like dis onlee. :lol:
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Gerard »

Scientists to review India's moon mission saga
Top European and American space scientists will join their Indian counterparts in Bangalore on Monday to review the performance of India's maiden moon mission Chandrayaan-1 that was aborted prematurely last week, a senior space agency official said Sunday.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Masaru »

Chandrayaan-I was 'killed' by heat stroke

“We assumed that the temperature at 100km above the Moon's surface would be around 75 degrees Celsius. However, it was more than 75 degrees and problems started to surface. We had to raise the orbit to 200km.
It now transpires that heating problems on the craft had begun as early as November 25, 2008, forcing ISRO to deactivate some of the payloads — there were 11 in all. As a result, some of the experiments could not be carried out which raised questions on whether the pre-launch thermal vacuum test done on the spacecraft at the ISRO Satellite Centre in Bangalore was adequate.
Last edited by Masaru on 07 Sep 2009 04:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Gerard »

DDM again.

The overheating/orbit raising was reported widely at the time.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Sanjay M »

This Andrew Pereira, the author of the TOI article, sounds misinformed. Everyone knew back at the time that the orbit-raising was done due to underestimation of the heat load coming off the Moon. I never heard about any desire to "get a better view" - a better view of the surface comes from being closer, and not higher.
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Lessons/Improvements from Chandrayaan

Post by Sanjay M »

Can anyone explain exactly how the Star Sensor worked? I know it was supposed to be able to read the relative positions of the stars, in order to help the craft find its bearings. But how did it do this? Was this a camera-imager with some kind of optical pattern recognition processing setup?

Also, is this something that other nations also use for that purpose? Or is this a uniquely Indian innovation? I understand that it was indigenously developed, but I just wanted to know whether the idea was also indigenous.

Haha, I'm reminded a bit of the Nintendo Wii game console, with its optical sensor camera and its accelerometers and inertial gyros.

I'd read that the backup navigational system of the gyros was suffering from much greater drift than originally anticipated. Was it a case of poor quality gyro system being used because Star Sensor was going to be relied upon as the main navigation system? Next time, we'd better make sure that the backup system is upto snuff, in case the main system fails.

Star Sensor seems like a very elegant and accurate way to navigate, but being a digital processing system with optical recognition seems to imply a greater fragility, as compared to the gyros.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Sanjay M »

Also, would it be possible for Chandrayaan-2 to include a DVD with people's names on it, to involve the public in the endeavour?
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Re: Lessons/Improvements from Chandrayaan

Post by Gerard »

Sanjay M wrote:Also, is this something that other nations also use for that purpose? Or is this a uniquely Indian innovation?
Stellar sensors have been used for many decades. The US Trident missiles use them in post-boost phase for trajectory correction.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Sanjay M »

You mean optical pattern recognition has been used for many decades? I thought it was just for the past couple of decades. I'm assuming that's how Star Sensor works.

Here's an explanation:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:Aeu ... en&ct=clnk
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Protection Against Radiation Damage

Post by Sanjay M »

Regarding future protection against radiation, here's an interesting idea I'd first heard mentioned a few years ago - the plasma bubble:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9567

I think that such a system could even be tested on high-altitude balloon platforms floating in the upper atmosphere.

Also, we've all heard of plasma antennas which can be used for communication here on Earth:

http://www.livescience.com/technology/0 ... tenna.html

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_ ... to_jamming

Such antennae can be dynamically reconfigured, to meet a variety of communication needs.

I think these are technologies that India could develop and test cheaply, and which could have a variety of payoffs for industry here on Earth, as well as military uses. Just imagine how many TV-watching Indians might be pleased to have a plasma-antenna discreetly mounted on the balcony of their flat, instead "da beeg satellite deesh" onlee :P

India is planning a solar mission called Aditya, which will place a satellite in sun-synchronous orbit, trailing the Earth. It's then likely that such a satellite would be more exposed to solar radiation, including the disruptive sunspot activity. That would be a good mission on which to test plasma bubble technology, to better protect the spacecraft while it carries out its mission.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Gerard »

Sanjay M wrote:. I'm assuming that's how Star Sensor works.
Check Google for excerpt from
"Inventing accuracy: a historical sociology of nuclear missile guidance"
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by arun »

I do not recollect this week old piece of news posted before so here goes.

Chandrayaan 1 to get the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics' (AIAA) Space Systems Award for 2009:
AWARDS TO BE PRESENTED AT AIAA SPACE 2009 CONFERENCE AND EXPOSITION

August 31, 2009 – Reston, Va. – The American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) will present the following awards, recognizing key contributions to space science and technology, at a noon awards luncheon on September 16 as part of the AIAA SPACE 2009 Conference & Exposition, September 14–17, at the Pasadena Convention Center, Pasadena, Calif. ......................

The Chandrayaan-1 Mission, India Space Research Organization (ISRO), Bangalore, India, will receive the AIAA 2009 Space Systems Award. Mylswamy Annadural, project director, ISRO headquarters, will accept the award on behalf of the team, which is being honored its outstanding accomplishments in the design, develop-ment, launch and operations of India’s first scientific mission, Chandrayaan-1, operating beyond earth’s orbit. .......................

AIAA Press Release
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by SSridhar »

Chandrayaan-I was killed by 'heat stroke'
“We assumed that the temperature at 100km above the Moon's surface would be around 75 degrees Celsius. However, it was more than 75 degrees and problems started to surface. We had to raise the orbit to 200km."
It now transpires that heating problems on the craft had begun as early as November 25, 2008, forcing ISRO to deactivate some of the payloads — there were 11 in all.
"Keeping this in mind, Chandrayaan-2's thermal design will be strengthened to withstand more than 100 degrees Celsius," . . . BARC is collaborating with ISRO to strengthen the radiation shield of Chandrayaan-2, slated for lift off in 2013 from Sriharikota.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by vishwakarmaa »

Sanjay M wrote:Also, would it be possible for Chandrayaan-2 to include a DVD with people's names on it, to involve the public in the endeavour?
Lets inscribe(imbibe) the names of 26/11 martyrs and names of 1971 war-heroes onto the spacecraft which lands on moon. Also, we should make it a tradition to tatto every important event in history of India onto the all future crafts into space, be it surface rover or an Orbiter probe.

Its better to send names of people who has an important place in our history than sending names of every bablu taplu, aira-gaira and natthu khaira.

Also lets send BhagwadGita's digital copy to space. Or, maybe a solar-powered-tape which plays sacred rhymes from all languages non-stop so raam-naam purifies the space for eternity.
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Encyclopaedia Indica

Post by Sanjay M »

Well, we could send a "time capsule" with as much data as possible about India, its history, culture, languages, geography, etc, etc, as an archive of our civilization and people. This "Encyclopaedia Indica" would serve as a reference guide to India and as a record of our times, for future space explorers who might happen to come upon it. Who knows, it might become a quaint item of interest for future space tourists, if excursions on the Moon become commonplace.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Sanjay M »

More analysis on the Chandrayaan-1 malfunction:

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/stories ... 913200.htm
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Sanjay M »

Some website is trying to call ISRO a bunch of cheats for hiding news of the Chandrayaan malfunction, so I posted evidence to the contrary:

http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2009/ ... son_1.html

Look at the date on this news article: Nov-25-2008

http://www.exfn.com/india-moon-craft-hit-by-heat-rise

"Scientists also plan to raise the orbit of the Indian craft to cool it down. It is presently in orbit 100km (62 miles) from the moon. However Mr Annadurai said that would only be done as a last resort."

They're not even publishing my comments, and seem to have blocked them. What a bunch of worthless liars these guys are. They're probably along the lines of conspiracy sites that claim the Apollo moon landing was faked.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Bade »

From the Hindu article above,
Several ISRO scientists and engineers conceded that the mission had exposed their inadequate knowledge of the radiation environment above the moon’s surface. An ISRO expert admitted: “Obviously, our understanding of the radiation in the space above the moon was not up to the mark. Nobody tells you what it is and why it is so. We did our job to the best of our wisdom, but it was not enough.
Isn't it surprising that with so many foreign payloads none bothered to raise this in multiple reviews they must have had. The US had the most to lose with 3 payloads and significant part of the new results will come from them. (M^3 is one of them). Thanks to ITAR, they also had to take a blow. So it is a case of equal-equal onlee. Even the radiation hard devices used on-board are likely embargoed still by the US laws, and were possibly sourced from elsewhere, which only added to the cause of early death.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Sanjay M »

Regarding the planned Chandrayaan-2 mission, at which location do they plan to land the rover?
Chandrayaan-1 seemed to place an emphasis on looking at the Moon's polar regions, which have been the least explored areas. Will Chandrayaan-2 likewise seek to look at the polar regions, or would they be ruled out due to lack of solar illumination to power the rover?
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Bade »

^^^ They have not selected the sites for landing yet, is what I hear from the panwalla.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Gerard »

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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Gerard »

pgbhat wrote:May be it is time to re-open Chandrayaan thread. :-?
done
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Sanjay M »

Would it be possible for India to aim the instruments from any of its existing Earth orbiting satellites towards the Moon, to gather further data on water? I realize the resolution wouldn't be great from 240M miles away, but maybe some further useful info could be found.

Has any announcement been made on what instruments the CY2 rover would have? They've said they've already completed the rover's design.
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by pgbhat »

Thanks Gerard. :)
Nasa To Reveal New Scientific Findings About The Moon
WASHINGTON -- NASA will hold a media briefing at 2 p.m. EDT on
Thursday, Sept. 24, to discuss new science data from the moon
collected during national and international space missions. NASA
Television and the agency's Web site will provide live coverage of
the briefing from the James E. Webb Memorial Auditorium at NASA
Headquarters, 300 E St. SW, in Washington.

The briefing participants are:
- Jim Green, director, Planetary Science Division, Science Mission
Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington
- Carle Pieters, principal investigator, Moon Mineralogy Mapper, Brown
University
- Rob Green, project instrument scientist, Moon Mineralogy Mapper,
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.
- Roger Clark, team member, Cassini spacecraft Visual and Infrared
Mapping Spectrometer and co-investigator, Moon Mineralogy Mapper,
U.S. Geological Survey in Denver
- Jessica Sunshine, deputy principal investigator for NASA’s Deep
Impact extended mission and co-investigator for Moon Mineralogy
Mapper, Department of Astronomy, University of Maryland

Reporters unable to attend the briefing may ask questions by
telephone. To reserve a telephone line, journalists should e-mail
their name, media affiliation and telephone number to Steve Cole at:

stephen.e.cole@nasa.gov

Papers supporting the briefing will be published online by the journal
Science at its Science Express Web site. Science will lift its
embargo at 2 p.m. EDT, Sept. 24.

For more information about NASA TV downlinks and streaming video,
visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by arun »

pgbhat
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by pgbhat »

x-posting from Space thread
vishwakarmaa wrote:Did NASA paid ISRO for the launch of its moon probes?

The way NASA is coming out with data and ISRO is still unaware of development, giving response - "We will examine data when it is shared with us. It was quite unexpected development.", tells two things. One, either ISRO scientists are technically incompetent to decipher scientific data which they got from NASA or two, NASA kept ISRO out of the loop of this scientific experiment which they claim as "global" and for "humanity".

The so-called co-operation between NASA and ISRO has turned out to be more talk, less action just like obama's hollow promises on climate change responsibilities.
vina wrote:
vishwakarmaa wrote:Did NASA paid ISRO for the launch of its moon probes?

The way NASA is coming out with data and ISRO is still unaware of development, giving response - "We will examine data when it is shared with us. It was quite unexpected development.",....

The so-called co-operation between NASA and ISRO has turned out to be more talk, less action just like obama's hollow promises on climate change responsibilities.
Give it a rest. Vishu Som was on TV in a special program yesterday trying to pump the Madhavan Nair for information on the discovery. From all indications, ISRO is fully briefed on the results and are in the know of what is going to be announced. They are waiting for NASA to come out with the announcement. The results are there with the Journal, Science as well. However they are is a news black out until the official NASA news conference at 2:00 pm EDT today. That is what everyone is respecting. However news has started to leak out and hence the flurry of reporting.
vina wrote:But what a great achievement. Chandrayaan has proved EVERY skeptic wrong, including the pernennial white skinned whiners oh.. "What is a country with so much poverty doing by sending moon missions" and their Indian slave drummer boys ". oh.. what about water in the toilet of the shanties, instead of water on the moon"

There is great science being done, definitely path breaking discoveries being made and if India's stock as a space faring nation goes up because of all this, all power to ISRO!.

As for the Chinese, wait for a few days and you will see an announcement of a mission called Sandlayaan , with a payload called "Moon Minelorogy Mappel " designed by Pakistan. The Paki instrument will broadcast fatwas and call for jihad against all the Kaffir nations that dare set foot on the Moon and defile the holy moon. Also , Pakis will declare that finding water is old hat and nothing radical. After all , the Jinns live on the Moon and the Moon Minelorogy Mappel will prove their existence . As for why water, Jinns need to partake water. What the Kaffir instruments detected was an outlet of the Zam Zam on the moon , which we knew always existed.
pgbhat wrote:^^^
:rotfl:
results will be published in Arabic Journal for Promotion of HoKo and Prevention of Science. :mrgreen:
juvva wrote:This also validates the selection of Indian/Foreign instruments that were selected by ISRO for the ride. IIRC there were many candidate instruments vying for the free ride,,,
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by ppatil »

For those uber interested folks, the NASA press conference will be broadcast here

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

The schedule is as follows (eastern time).
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/M ... aking.html
September 24, Thursday
6 a.m. - STSS Demo Launch Coverage (Launch is scheduled for 8 a.m.) – KSC (Public and Media Channels)
NET 10:30 a.m. - STSS Demo Post-Launch News Conference – KSC (Public and Media Channels)
2 p.m. - NASA Science News Conference – A New Moon – HQ (Public and Media Channels)
3:30 p.m. - STS 127 Crew Tweet Up Event - HQ (Public and Education Channels)
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by Austin »

Water found on moon by Chandrayan cool , but whats the big deal ?
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Re: Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Post by harbans »

A comment from the Time site:
Rob Law wrote:
Give india the credit it deserves. US and Russia and Europe have been launching satellites at the moon for so many years. India in one launch at the moon, on a shoe string budget has provided us with the biggest space discovery in over a hundred years! I think India is already leagues ahead of the chinese (and in fact the japanese space programs); It already has the largest constellation of communication and remote sensing satellites orbiting the earth after the US. Some people would say that they havent yet launched a man into space....its just a question of priority i think. They have been focusing on value for money with their space program. And it shows. Has anyone heard of any results from the chinese or japanese moon probes. There is no news of their results and they seem to have vanished a few months after launch! For those who think this is nasa's achivement, think again that nasa has been at the moon for past 60 yrs and havent made such a discovery, and finally its ironical that they have now made a discovery after riding piggy back on an indian space satellite....so in other words, they managed to do it with the help of the indians. Its the indian ingenuity that is now showing through..while nasa debates on how to spend billions on a space (junk) station , India is leading with innovative technologies and pragmatic space mission objectives!
September 24, 2009 2:45 AM BST on community.timesonline.co.uk
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/s ... 846639.ece

Plenty similar sentiments. It was ISRO that selected critical instruments on board CY1. Mission head control is still ISRO. Some people are trying to marginalize ISRO in all this. The M3 though funded by NASA was a mission of opportunity program. It is ISRO selection of the instrument that is crucial to it's success. Credit should be equitably shared without malice. But all said and done, i'm happy for the folks at ISRO and Indian scienctific endeavour. We should just sit back and enjoy the fun and plan for the future.

Could'nt help sharing..success does sure bring out buddies :mrgreen:
Harry June wrote:
@Andrew: Please, most the negativity is not coming from "a few thousand miles across the Atlantic." In fact, it is a joint US-India team that made this discovery. Our Indian friends gathered the data but the data was interpreted by US scientists and thus the joint announcement with NASA.

Your hatred of the USA shouldn't be a theme on a discussion of joint exercises by the USA and India, two great allies who will together hold up the flag for democracy in the 21st century. For the record, as a tired Europe and UK recede into history, this American is proud to have 21st century allies as strong and capable as India, who like us also had to fight to remove the yoke of British oppression to found a more perfect union.
September 24, 2009 4:07 AM BST on community.timesonline.co.uk
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