Guess we know this also will end up!!Ironically, the initial response in India's defence establishment to the "desi Bofors" has been tepid. While one worthy reportedly remarked that the "MoD does not entertain unsolicited offers", another dismissed it as a "hobby project".
Following are the possibilities -sum wrote:Quote in the article on Desi arty:
Guess we know this also will end up!!Ironically, the initial response in India's defence establishment to the "desi Bofors" has been tepid. While one worthy reportedly remarked that the "MoD does not entertain unsolicited offers", another dismissed it as a "hobby project".
BarrelBoreas wrote: .
2. TATA sends few lifafas to non-saint people in saint's office and they start to see light at the end of tunnel.
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OR this is all for future, and not available in existing systems?The four Indian private sector companies that held 'system level interactions' were Tata Power SED, Larsen & Toubro, Bharat Forge Ltd and Mahindra Defence Systems, BHEL along with state-owned BHEL and BEL. Eight private firms that held 'sub-system level interactions' were Dantal Hydraulics, Starwine India Ltd, PSPL, Avasarala Technologies, Accurate Engineering, HBL Power Systems Ltd., Moog Inc and System Controls Ltd.
According to DRDO, the 155mm gun it plans to develop at the Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE) in Pune, "Improved firepower to achieve first salvo effectiveness at longer ranges, higher accuracy and enhanced survivability are the primary requirements for this gun system. Efforts are being made to develop new technologies for weapon platforms, automation and control systems, recoil management, materials, etc., to achieve improved weapon performance."
So, will Tata SED, Bharat Forge etc help the DRDO for their gun as well as develop their own guns??A month before the Tata Power Strategic Electronic Division unveiled what was heralded as India's first 'indigenous' artillery gun, the company was among 14 Indian firms that sat across the table with DRDO officials at a three-day brainstorming session in Pune between October 29-31 on the latter's proposed 155mm/52cal advanced towed artillery gun system (ATAGS, since they love their long acronyms).
The four Indian private sector companies that held 'system level interactions' were Tata Power SED, Larsen & Toubro, Bharat Forge Ltd and Mahindra Defence Systems, BHEL along with state-owned BHEL and BEL. Eight private firms that held 'sub-system level interactions' were Dantal Hydraulics, Starwine India Ltd, PSPL, Avasarala Technologies, Accurate Engineering, HBL Power Systems Ltd., Moog Inc and System Controls Ltd.
According to DRDO, the 155mm gun it plans to develop at the Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE) in Pune, "Improved firepower to achieve first salvo effectiveness at longer ranges, higher accuracy and enhanced survivability are the primary requirements for this gun system. Efforts are being made to develop new technologies for weapon platforms, automation and control systems, recoil management, materials, etc., to achieve improved weapon performance."
The DRDO labs that propose to be part of the gun development include the Instruments Research and Development Establishment (IRDE), Vehicle Research and Development Establishment (VRDE), Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR) and DRDO HQ in Delhi.
SaiK wrote:OR this is all for future, and not available in existing systems?
Bala ji your-truly is also theresarabpal.s wrote:This ^^ indeed a good thinking Evan if they put it on Tata truck as they shown in Defexpo may reduce the cost, also wheeled one has certain advantage over tracked maintenance cost wise.
We need to convert ALL our infantry to such type of a wheeled mobile vehicle with enhanced fire power and reasonable protection with ability to fire ATGM and some AAM for protection against heavier and faster opposing assets. It is a numbers game. Presuming the wheeled versions will be less than 15 tons, so they are heli transportable.sarabpal.s wrote:This ^^ indeed a good thinking Evan if they put it on Tata truck as they shown in Defexpo may reduce the cost, also wheeled one has certain advantage over tracked maintenance cost wise.
As long as it works, is reliable, and can be maintained in the field I would not complain that it is not pretty.Singha wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/47686239@N ... otostream/
what do people think of this OFB 105mm gun turret on BMP2 chassis as a means of cheap support to infantry divs and mountain formations.
So, its back again in discussion...Singha wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/47686239@N ... otostream/
what do people think of this OFB 105mm gun turret on BMP2 chassis as a means of cheap support to infantry divs and mountain formations.
any 155mm SP gun will be big and expensive. there is a niche for 105mm guns, and its new gen shells are claimed to have 25km range and pack a good bite.
Aiyyooo...not this topic please...I might just tear me cloths off and go insane....Surya wrote:Aha Shaurya
Rohit and I have been crying for that. we are still a truck mobile army
now if we can get you to throw away your Siachen thoughts - we have some hope for you
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/tod ... 494614.eceOur export list includes small arms & ammunition, mortars & ammunition, light field gun & ammunition, demolition stores, passive night sights and mine protected vehicles, brake parachutes etc. Our strength lies in the medium and high calibre ammunitions.
In many parts of the world, there is a need for the 84 mm mortar & 105 mm gun system. Considering the fact that we have variants of 105 mm gun including vehicle mounted one, OFB would be able to supply the same, once Indian Army completely switches over to the high Calibre ones. We have been exploring avenues for long term partnerships for exports with some South East Asian countries.
Joo know how they say a pic is worth a hazaar words onlee!rohitvats wrote:Aiyyooo...not this topic please...I might just tear me cloths off and go insane....Surya wrote:Aha Shaurya
Rohit and I have been crying for that. we are still a truck mobile army
now if we can get you to throw away your Siachen thoughts - we have some hope for you
Oh sorrry, bhaaji.. Must have misread the post..sarabpal.s wrote:[
Bala ji your-truly is also there
Though surprised by the sudden launch of home grown howitzer developed by Tata power strategic electronics division, the weapon development composite team at the Gun Carriage Factory (GCF), credited with manufacturing the first swadeshi bofors, derives solace from the fact that the new product will offer them little competition.
The two guns are quite dissimilar, general manager and head of the WDCT S P Yadav told TOI. The weapon showcased by Tata SED is 155/52 mm howitzer carried by eight-wheeled Tata truck. As against the vehicle mounted variety, our produce is what is technically classified as a toed gun.
So unlike misgivings in certain quarters Tata does not pose any threat to us. In fact the new range, he said, would give Indian army a vast choice and is a happy development."
Tata's launch, according to sources, had led to a major upheaval in the GCF where an expert team of 125 personnel had been working round the clock for last two years to come up with a technically superior and upgraded version of their Swedish counterpart.
The project was fast tracked at the behest of the defense ministry and A K Anthony had come down to personally monitor its progress four months ago. So the successful foray by a rival did not sound particularly encouraging, admitted a senior team member. Posturing by the workers union did not help matters, he said. In fact, the union leaders went to the extent of imputing a conspiracy to shut down GCF- one of the oldest defense installations in the country- and prepared to strike work.
The GM lays all these doubts to rest. We have brought out two prototypes and they are undergoing filed trials he said.
The first trial was held on November 30 at the central proof establishment (CPE) Itarsi and the next is slated for third week of this month when we transport the gun to PXE Balasore before finally handing it over to Indian Army.
The timing by Tata SED, he remarked, was a bit intriguing, "because it coincides with our launch and has contributed to some unnecessary confusion". Sure that 155/45 caliber boomer which can strike an object within the range of 40 kilometers, would give all national and international competitors a run for their money, Yadav said, "GCF, don't forget, has 109 years of experience in artillery manufacturing and others including Tata are just entering the field.
Rohit: I am a newbie when it comes to Orbat, but was intrigued by the 105 mm caliber. If you check out Singha's link, you will see that the main purpose of the gun seems to be in an anti-tank rather than an artillery role. Its armament confirms this - APDS, HEAT, HESH etc. The question then becomes: if it can be used in a swing role - direct anti-tank fire or as artillery, doesnt it lend versatility to our mechanized divisions, especially considering its lower weight?rohitvats wrote: - To begin with, IA does not want 105 mm caliber. And that process will not start with en mass induction of 155/52 Cal guns but was begun in early to mid-90s when IA bought 130 mm guns at dirt cheap prices in their high hundreds. As far as I have been able to fathom, Medium to Field Regiment ratio is 1:1.5 - a big change from 1:3 in 80s and earlier when each Division Arty Bde had 3 x Field Regiments and 1 x Medium Regiment.
That could be because the gun is a copy of the Centurion's old L7 rifled gun. What you are proposing is a WW2 style Tank Destroyer. I don't know how much of use that dated concept will be in today's wars. The IA will be better off buying lots of NAMICA's to be used in the Tank Destroyer role along with flooding the infantry with man-portable ATGMs. A BMP with a 105mm gun will be outranged, outgunned and unprotected against a tank carrying a modern 125mm gun. It will never work. Since it has very little armor, it has to engage the tanks at a range greater than that of the tank's own weapons as far as possible.Prem Kumar wrote: Rohit: I am a newbie when it comes to Orbat, but was intrigued by the 105 mm caliber. If you check out Singha's link, you will see that the main purpose of the gun seems to be in an anti-tank rather than an artillery role. Its armament confirms this - APDS, HEAT, HESH etc. The question then becomes: if it can be used in a swing role - direct anti-tank fire or as artillery, doesnt it lend versatility to our mechanized divisions, especially considering its lower weight?
Against tanks it would have to be used for direct fire, no? It can't hit a moving target 20km away. Or even a stationary target which cannot be seen.Shrinivasan wrote:Nachiket, the Range of an 105mm field gun is way more than the range of the 125mm main gun of an MBT... Even Arjun's gun's range doesn't measure up... also I would think a Arty shell would pack more explosive power than a Tank Shell. JMT.
- If there ever was a glaring example of the chronic issues with OFB, the example is right here in front of you. So, GCF factory Worker's Union threatened to go on strike because TATA SED came out with a mounted howitzer? Reminds me of IA being forced to buy a rejected Milan-2T produced by BDL after 'protestations' from BDL workers/staff. So, is the procurement and arming cycle of Services will now be held hostage to whims and fancies of the workers? Just imagine the reaction when Bharat Forge comes out with its own 155/52 Cal Towed Gun...D Roy wrote:<SNIP>So the successful foray by a rival did not sound particularly encouraging, admitted a senior team member. Posturing by the workers union did not help matters, he said. In fact, the union leaders went to the extent of imputing a conspiracy to shut down GCF- one of the oldest defense installations in the country- and prepared to strike work.
<SNIP>
The timing by Tata SED, he remarked, was a bit intriguing, "because it coincides with our launch and has contributed to some unnecessary confusion". Sure that 155/45 caliber boomer which can strike an object within the range of 40 kilometers, would give all national and international competitors a run for their money, Yadav said, "GCF, don't forget, has 109 years of experience in artillery manufacturing and others including Tata are just entering the field.
PK - the days of artillery firing over open range in anti-tank role are long gone. ATGM of the variety available today are much better at doing this. Secondly, if a point comes where your SP Arty has to take on anti-tank role, then something very seriously has gone wrong to permit enemy armor to reach your rear areas - where your artillery is. You don't buy SPH because of their anti-tank capability.Prem Kumar wrote:<SNIP> Rohit: I am a newbie when it comes to Orbat, but was intrigued by the 105 mm caliber. If you check out Singha's link, you will see that the main purpose of the gun seems to be in an anti-tank rather than an artillery role. Its armament confirms this - APDS, HEAT, HESH etc. The question then becomes: if it can be used in a swing role - direct anti-tank fire or as artillery, doesnt it lend versatility to our mechanized divisions, especially considering its lower weight?
This is a versatility that neither the 155 mm or 130 mm Howitzers provide.
JMT and all that
First - Artillery Regiments equipped with 105mm guns are called Field Regiments and not Light Regiments. Light Regiments are equipped with 120mm Mortars.Shrinivasan wrote:Rohit, IA operates a large # of 105mm field guns in its light Arty regiments... why are you then saying IA would not agree for an 105mm SPH.
